I don't really think that she is stronger or better than the hulk for numerous reasons; First of all, one clap from bruce sent her flying. She does lots of little more directed claps that make the soundwaves the hulk hates, as shown in the first movie when the army attacked him. Bruce threw a boulder in to orbit, and not to forget, this is 'smart hulk', not the full enraged full hulk from the first avengers. In the comics she was better at controlling her anger and forms than bruce is. She is more slender and less bulky which helps balance and agility. Bruce also has been abused for most of his early life by his father and has an alter ego to battle with for control. Finally I think it's always been shown that Bruce is a much stronger hulk, in the comics at least. I don't feel like one is better than the other, they're different people with different strengths and weaknesses, and in my opinion, the show did pretty well showing that
Yes, his clap sent her flying. She just was excited by discovering it, and kept doing it repeatedly, and he wasn't moved at all, he just didn't like the noise.
Agreed. You have to assume that each person will manifest powers slight different. Nothing is better or worse in the training montage. They both are similar in that they can even process gamma radiation the same; it would kill almost anyone else. And Bruce Banner/Hulk has changed significantly since 2008-2012, so change is possible. I've seen a lot of comments about Bruce's childhood abuse, and not being familiar with the comics, that seems to be a salient point about the why in their differences. Maybe that should have been touched on in the show to educate others?
@@CRISPYPOP Patreon supporters get the video week early. They upload the video on youtube as hidden and post link to it on patreon. So the patreon people can watch it but it will only show up to others week later.
The reason Jennifer doesn't have to deal with all the stuff Bruce did, and was able to succeed so quickly, is because she wasn't fighting a literal split personality rage monster in her head caused by the trauma of an abusive family life growing up. You know, the childhood where Bruce was beaten by his father, who he also watched murder his mother. Comparatively Jennifer had a very normal childhood.
@@0saintclark0 ur probabaly like 6 but females are emotional as hell and she’s a female that can control her emotions the cat calling wasn’t the point simple psychology
From what i have found out Jen is more control because Bruce had another personality (alter) due an abusive father, very similar to Moonkight. Hence why Bruce references "another hand on the wheel" or calling him the "other guy." Since Jen doesn't have another personality she is able to be transform and still be herself
@@kR-qj7rw That's Comic Hulk, this is MCU Hulk. 'Savage Hulk' is pretty much dead after they chumped him out to Thanos and got rid of him for Smart Hulk, which is just Banner with Hulk strength. The rest don't exist, he just seems to have had 2 identities.
A lot of people thought she was downplaying Bruce's struggles. Yes she was being a jerk, and that was acknowledged. As well as her acknowledging his suffering when she said "Why would you want that for me?" Then she apologized at the end, half assed, but Bruce still knew she was sincere. She obviously has problems being straight forward with how she feels and projects them in other ways. Like anger.
She was also referring to Bruce pre-hulk. She wasn't discounting everything he went through after becoming the hulk. She's talking about why she is having an easier time with it after immediately being changed than he did after immediately being changed....and thats pretty much exactly his story arc in the incredible hulk film.
When was it acknowledged and when did she apologize? It was not a flaw but written as a powerful momen for "women empowerment" or whatever. "infinitely more times than you" is as bad as the x-women line.
@@FullMetalB "not in the MCU" so all her presumption was gender based? She assumes she's had it worse than Bruce because he's a man? That's just worse.
She-Hulk is a more comedic character but it is a much smarter level of comedy. This was lower level of comedy that simply tries to one up on others as a form of comedy. Comics Jen certainly broke of the fourth wall to make smarter remarks compared to, say, Deadpool's low brow jokes. She loved being a lawyer and a superhero whereas this show tries to make her only care about being a lawyer because it's a male dominated field and being a superhero means nothing to her... yet. Even in regards to her looks, comics Jen was sexy without being slutty and took confidence in that. Even when the comic artist/writer/editor tried to over sexualize her she called it out in a fourth wall break and brought it back to classy level. This Jen just seems so negative about her feminine manner that she comes off over masculine. Even lacked the self awareness that she put catcalls and the like over the struggles Bruce has endured. The show is using comedy but it's the type of comedy that punches down and that's only funny if you're doing it to someone that is irredeemable.
jenn she-hulk has been around since 1980 and she was breaking the 4th wall way before Deadpool . unlike the way they had her get the blood of hulk in the comics she needed a blood trasfusion and bruce was the only 1 who's blood matched hers and unlike this show she was proud to be she-hulk and didn't blame bruce
She-Hulk is not better than Hulk at Thunder Clapping, she is different. The visual effects match those from the Hulk film with the Sound Waves that affected the Hulk. Bruce was not "emasculated" in this, strengthwise he was better at everything. Jen's main difference is agility and tyhe control she has, which is of course from the comics.
Yeah Bruce has no real limits of how strong he can get. Jen's powers are set and can only become stronger by training her human body. She being more agile and not losing control makes her unique not better.
Shes a lightweight, hes a super heavyweight. She can use agility to compensate for lack of brute power. That was really nicely shown with the thunderclap scene.
Thought this was so obvious, but it's been so interesting seeing certain ppl immediately get so in their feelings & triggered that they completely missed it and saw what they wanted to see!
The main reason it took Bruce so long to deal with the Hulk while Jen picked it up easily, is because Bruce has DID from his abusive childhood. The Hulk is basically an expression of how Bruce views himself. Since Jen doesn’t have this mental baggage, it was more natural for her In regards to the comedy, don’t get your hopes too high, as She Hulk in the comics was always a pretty comedic character given the 4th wall breaks and stuff (which she actually broke the 4th wall before Deadpool did, fun fact). So it’ll definitely very much so lean into that legal sitcom type feel And finally in regards to the woman at the end, her name is Titania. I don’t wanna get into spoiler territory incase the show remains true to the comics with how she gets her powers, but let’s just say she got her powers from a VERY big and important villain in Marvel’s history
kuhpunkt Yeah I know, and it’s extremely unfortunate. I blame Universal for a lot of that, given they haven’t allowed a solo Hulk movie to be made since 2008. But it’s rumored that Marvel is getting the rights back summer next year so maybe we’ll get more depth explored with him finally
The MCU is expanding to almost have different genres within itself now So Ms Marvel was the teen high school show This is a straight up 30 minute lawyer/sitcom style show I wouldn't expect too many dark and serious moments This will be different from the previous 6 episode limited series format we've have for most other Disney+ shows
Yeah the hair thing is a comic thing - also the fact that her hair actually takes on a green tinge. She's a very different character to her cousin Bruce. I think if people don't overthink it, it's very enjoyable. Ep 2 gets a lot more into what her story is going to be, while this was basically setup and backstory.
I think most of these comments have nailed it. I just want to add a couple cents that I didn't see. I feel that Professor Hulk isn't the strongest version of himself so saying she is stronger is not quite accurate and I also believe his second rock though were he launches the thing off the planet was kind of their way of saying he was holding back with her.
The line in the books was always that Prof. is at base Hulk level, which isn't that strong, but brute Hulk does the "gets stronger as he gets angrier" with no top limit, so base Hulk is weaker than a ton of Marvel characters but pissed off Hulk is... well, the strongest there is.
I think it's also that Bruce isn't trying to show off but instead teach her how to control her strength, until he realizes she's trying to show off and then he immediately does too, which is just typical cousin banter
Hulk first toss’s the boulder while not even looking what he is doing. He throws palm up with one hand. Like someone casually shooting hoops in their backyard. Then after She Hulk uses both hands and all her strength. To throw her boulder pass Hulk’s. Then he put his next boulder into space.
It's being billed as Marvel's first foray into a half-hour sitcom type of show which fits with the comics. The fourth-wall breaking was done by She-Hulk in the comics long before Deadpool even came about. Great review, as always, love you guys, take care!
@@andyrobin7196 I think it was longer, around 45 minutes, but yes, in a way it was, but it wasn't how Marvel billed the show. I like Marvel's brand of humor, which pops up in a lot of shows and movies, but I think it's gonna be more prevalent in She-Hulk. And I'm here for it. :)
@@micksailor4715 no, WV was absolutely a half hour 9 episode show. Not one episode broke the 40 min mark. Most were under 30 if you don't count the credits. It and She Hulk were designed to be more like sitcoms than the other shows.
Somebody else pointed this out, and I'm sure more than one person did. When the Hulk was originally created, the anger and the loss of control was part of being the Hulk. That was retconned into being that Banner suffers from Dissociative identity disorder. So the reason she has control without the rage is because she is the same personality when she transforms. It isn't that she is stronger than him, because physically she isn't. His strength is connected to his anger and the last I knew there was no known limit as to how strong he could get, but he gets stronger the more he gets angry. Her strength doesn't work the same way.
I've read somewhere that hers was more connected to feeling awkward or powerless, that Jen Walters was supposed to be a timid, almost doormat type of person except in court. Therefore, She-Hulk is beautiful, charismatic, witty, and thoroughly in control. Bruce's rage makes him a monster, the opposite of the passive Banner personality; Jen's insecurity makes her hulk into an idealized, high-powered (in a personality sense as well as literal powers), complete person. It's why she winds up staying She Hulk most of the time in the comics.
Important to keep in mind Hulk and She-Hulk are not gender swapped versions of the same character. The She-Hulk name may be derivative, but the character is not. She has always been her own thing. As far as the short monologue about woman’s emotional experience. Many people seem to have taken that as the show making a statement. I saw it as a character flaw that she will need to work on throughout the show. She has a lack of empathy for other peoples experiences and is unwilling to listen to her cousins advice. Could this be…gasp…a character arc??? Just because a character says something, doesn’t imply that the show making a claim about some “global truth”. Literally 5 minutes later she says “I was right, Bruce is wrong and I never have to be a hulk”, which we know for a fact is not true. As for the differences between their hulk forms, and Jen being able to control hers immediately. We have seen a number of people affected by hulks blood in the MCU and they were all affected differently. In the comics her transformation was less extreme because she got a much smaller dose of radiation than Bruce. To assume that the difference between them is only based on gender is a bit silly I think. The show is not saying that She-Hulk is better than Hulk. Hulk is still significantly stronger, his transformation much more extreme, that’s why it took him years to learn to control it. Hulk’s clap was significantly more powerful and sent her flying. She-Hulk had to do multiple claps just to irritate him!! Yes, she picked him up and threw him, but that’s about her strength and his weight, nothing to do with his strength. A tug boat can easily move a cruise ship, when the cruise ship isn’t resisting. The names are derivative, but the characters are not. Looking at the differences between them and attempting to expand that to broader statements about gender is a fools errand.
She-Hulk is still a derivative character... yes her stories are different from the Hulk's but the character itself is still a derivative of the Hulk.... she is still a female version of the Hulk no matter how different she is from him... it's not just her name that's a derivative of him..
It's weird. Hulk is clearly stronger. He literally threw a rock out of the atmosphere. So why are people saying that She Hulk is stronger? She couldn't even thunderclap, so instead she used repetition so the waves could overwhelm Bruce instead. That just shows that she is resourceful. Her being obsessed with being better than him is less about her being a woman and more about her being a pig-headed and competitive lawyer.
This has been the argument since this show came out and why there is a group of people that are bashing it. Everyone just took it as "she's better than The Hulk" and that Jen was saying she has gone through more than him. That's just not the case. Women do deal with daily issues that invoke anger/anxiety/fear more frequently than men. So she has already learned how to control those emotions and why she has better control with changing back and forth between Jen and She-Hulk. I think it's just simply showing that each person has different experiences and reactions to life events, whether man or woman. Also, the show did a good job of making sure that it's obvious that she isn't stronger or better than Hulk. He was clearly holding back when they were doing the training montage and then when they "fought" each other. He's not going to go full on Hulk SMASH mode with his cousin. Loved the reaction though! I think you guys will enjoy the 2nd episode more and I'm looking forward to the rest of the series, I think it'll get better with each episode!
I agree. I think some people's sticking point is, when she is saying that to Bruce, they are thinking about everything he went through AFTER becoming the hulk. Being hunted and all. And the MCU hasn't clarified if his early life was the same as in the comics. So yes, obviously after he became the hulk he went through a lot. But I think it's pretty clear she's referring also to his time before being the hulk. His whole story is based on him NOT having a good control over his anger and fear when he became the hulk...which just proves her point.
16:34 Where did she overpowered him? Let's be honest here, you came here with a pre-set disposition and are seeing what you want to see, because that's bullshit, he clapped once and sent her flying through the air, she had to clap continuously just to annoy him in the ear
He’s right. This is the one time where Holden had his mind made up before even watching. Nothing he said in the recap made sense. His gripes were unfounded. She’s not better than Bruce. He wasn’t emasculated. Idk what Holden was talking about here…
They never treated her as better. Just different. There are plenty scene where she takes Bruce’s advice and try’s his suggestions because he has more experience in this situation. He tossed a boulder into the atmosphere. Just because she can control her anger doesn’t make her automatically better. Her trying to one up Bruce is #1 they are family and obviously close. #2 the cut throat nature of law school. They never lowered men. Bruce giving her a safe space to express herself and being there for her should prove that. This all happened so fast for her, that her way of dealing with it is denial. She says she was right, but guess what. She was wrong. Again, never lowered men. Just the scum bags who act like that. I feel like, as a man, if you are secure in your manhood then you would realize they aren’t talking about you. Like… if your in a pool. And the lifeguard says no running… are you gonna think it’s about you? No. Just the idiots who are doing the running around the pool.
As a man I never ever took any offence when she talked about being cat-called on the streets etc... because I am not one of those men that does that. As you say... a secure man will never take offence over this show.
I think people are mistaking “better” for “different”, Jennifer isn’t better, but different. Her thunder clap wasn’t as strong, it was different and had different effects. Her ability to control anger, I mean is kinda right, she’s used to it, plus it was that way in the comics. I’d say it’s the pacing that doesn’t help. Also, That male coworker is supposed to be caricature (plus it makes sense now, with men like Andrew Tate existing).
Except she says she controls her anger infinitely more than Bruce when she hasn’t been through half the things that he has. I agree that they’re just different and I hope that scene is just an indication of the character’s arrogance and not the writers arrogance. Furthermore, if you think Andrew Tate is a man to seriously worry about then you just haven’t seen too much in your life.
@@David_Scar notice how she was angry and Bruce was calm and understanding. Sometimes there’s more than what’s being said, and more to how others listen
I think the idea of the speech she made is that she is different not better. Jen and Bruce have different experiences and so when it comes to being a Hulk Jen has it generally easier. Cuz they way I saw it Bruce still clearly overpowered Jen in their little brawl. Obviously he was holding back cuz he didn’t wanna seriously harm his own cousin. I wouldn’t worry anyway since they seem to have more plans for Bruce later anyway
I agree. I never felt that she was saying that "women are better than men". More about "We have experienced this and therefor we are good at it". I also thought Hulks whole thing was that he gets stronger when he is angry. He isnt angry at all here and why we would he deliberately try to injure her? All I am seeing here is him testing and helping her as if shes a child. Shes new at this and he gets this. Also his past obviously points to him being extra careful about everything because hell, he has caused a lot of dmg throughout the years.
Something else is that I think that this was really important for Bruce. His whole life he had no one on Earth who he could relate to his struggles with the Hulk. When Jen became a Hulk as well, he suddenly had someone he could share it with. He must have been increasingly devastated by how quickly and easily she had it all down and wanted nothing to do with any of it. All the things she said about him were right. Out of line, but right. He is lonely and sad but that was his opportunity to fix that. But nope. Miss attorney just needed to go.
She-Hulk for the past 40 years is pretty much like this, she's a very comedic character who breaks the fourth wall. Jen from the start is VERY different, not better, and that is the message, they have different experiences that lead to them being the Hulk. When She-Hulk started out in the first few issues, she was just a girl Hulk, and that was boring, then John Bryne made her a comedy book that broke the fourth wall, and became a sleeper hit, jump to early 2000's Dan Slott made She-Hulk into a superpowered Ally McBeal, which was critical darling, which the show takes it's premise from. Also her hairstyle transforming is a classic Hulk thing (plus it's her classic comic hair), she gains more volume, and Bruce's hair slightly changes too. Final thing, Bruce isn't going to wreck his car to stop Jen, and Jen isn't as strong as Bruce, so her multiple claps are essentially compensation for a regular Thunder Clap.
The show is supposed to be a straight up comedy. So don't expect them to do less jokes. She is a very funny character in the comics. Didn't understand your take on her being better than Bruce. I didn't see that at all. In fact he proved multiple times in the episode that he's stronger and better.
Yeah he was clearly holding back, evidence by him throwing the damn boulder into the stratosphere. And I heard people talk about other incidents like her being able to push him into rocks with the car. Like that's his cousin. He's not just pick up the whole car and launch her in the ocean. Lol!
Agreed, she wasn't better, she was just different. He was clearly stronger, throwing that rock into space and he just lobbed the first one without much effort lol. It makes sense she's more flexible/nimble, given their different body types. Bruce's clapping was more power/brute strength, hers was more sonic which hurt his ears, which I would guess was a reference to the sonic weapon in the 1st Hulk movie. And the controlled changing has already been discussed to death.
Holden seem to get in his feelings like a lot of men unfortunately.....I'm a man and I'm dissapointed at the knee jerk reaction to every thing a female character does
I doubt the level of serious drama in this will be any more than you find in Ally McBeal. Its intended to be a lighter comedy, to expect more will probably lead to disapointment. And yes I think it was confirmed that every episode will have a credit scene. Really with Marvel everyone should be trained to check just in case by now 😃
With Thor, I feel like you need to understand his trauma and that he's always been bound to duty and expectation. With the Avengers and on Earth, he's learned to loosen up and explore himself more, free from all of that.
I interpreted it more as her using it differently than him. Her attempt at a full thunderclap didn't work, so instead of pulling her arms back for a full one, she did a series of smaller ones more quickly to generate more of a sonic effect than a shockwave effect.
I think it's important to remember that this is intended to be a comedy first (which is how the comics are as well - She-Hulk has always been highly tongue-in-cheek and meta. For example She-Hulk started the fourth wall breaking in Marvel). Don't over analyze it. (I will now go on to over-analyze it.) The 'So I'm better' thing isn't a thing about She-Hulk being better, it's about Jen teasing Bruce - they obviously have that sort of relationship (a very sibling-type dynamic). Jen _does_ adapt much quicker, and has much more control over her Hulk form, sure. That's just Jen being different. She-Hulk is like that in the comics as well - she's a different type of Hulk than Bruce. And that means different in terms of narrative and tone as well. Jen's speech about controlling her anger is her version of 'Because I'm always angry'. And, to be honest, it _is_ what it is like to be a woman in America, especially in high-stress competitive careers like Law. I don't think Bruce is being emasculated or anything. I think the show goes out of its way to show that Bruce is actually not trying really hard on the strength stuff; Bruce is just being Bruce. He himself is a generally unassuming person. He isn't acting all that different than when he interacted with Tony - just with the added bit of that brother-sister dynamic. I don't think you can view the character or the show through 'Hulk-tinted glasses', per se. The struggle for Bruce is between his normal self and the out-of-control Hulk self. That's NOT Jen's struggle. Her struggle is between the normal life she wants and the life that finds her because she's a powered individual. It's the contrast between the mundane and the strangeness of the superhero life. I think that if you really want to find the core critique you could level at the show, you could say its that the show doesn't quite convey that it's intentionally a bit of satire, a bit of deconstruction, and that it doesn't tackle the baggage of Bruce Banner's Hulk because that's not the point of the show.
No, it's not how it's like to be a woman. You're gonna be murdered? Wtf? No. It's called disney pushing a political agenda. She hulk had potential but all disney cares about is politics and crapping on a male character's legacy.
@@Anonymous2.2 1) Women _have_ gotten murdered (and worse) for pissing off the wrong guy. Does it happen very often? No. But more than most people realize. And you can never quite tell which man is the psycho, so you have to be wary most of the time. That's a reality of being a woman in the world. 2) There's nothing here that craps on anyone's legacy. Hulk is still demonstrably stronger (literally - they demonstrate it in the episode). He still has the same themes and challenges. He as a character and his story as an on-going narrative are strong enough to take a little teasing and some deconstruction. 3) Almost of of this story comes from Marvel comics, not Disney, and is from far before Disney owned Marvel. 4) Disney is a corporation - their agenda is to make money first and foremost. 5) I'm sorry that your sensibilities are so delicate that this sort of thing bothers you so much.
@@veronicahamilton3174 1. Ok. And does that not happen to men? I mean it literally happened in she hulk lmao. But in all seriousness, why tf are you using that as a talking point if it rarely happens? 2. I guess legacy isn't the right word but they're talked down to. 3. Yeah because disney can't make anything original that's good. But they still shove their agenda in their. 4. Yes I know that's why the quality sucks 5. Yeah disney shoving a poltical agenda based on lies down my throat does bother me. Tell me, are you ok with them putting a scene talking about periods in a children's show so they can put a trans person in their? Does that seem ok to you? There's also countless other evil things they've done.
@@Anonymous2.2 Fine, I'll bite. 1. There's a reason why women are much less safe travelling alone at night than men are. That's because there are a lot more men willing to take advantage of a woman than there are men willing do the same of other men. The situation isn't remotely the same. And while it's not likely, it still happens to women more than men by orders of magnitude more. Thing is, I'm pretty sure you know this. I bet you know instinctively that someone's sister is a lot less safe out there than someone's brother. But you choose to ignore that because you are trying to make a point about a tv show that hurt your feelings because it dared call it out. 2. Who is being talked down to? Pointing out that Bruce is projecting his experiences and problems on Jen isn't talking down to Bruce, or you, or men. Being called on your shit may brush your ego, but it isn't being talked down to. 3. Disney's agenda is to make money, which is why they generally let Kevin Feige do whatever he wants with the MCU. You can't place 'blame' for originating the themes or content of the show when they are pulling it from the source content Marvel made. Maybe you should aim your grudge at the original writers of She-Hulk? But then, I don't think your actual goal is culpability, but rather looking for a reason to lash out at people you already don't like. 4. The 'quality sucks' is arguable. But once again, the things you seem to have an issue with were there in the original content. 5. Disney is shoving a lot less political agenda down my throat than the US Congress and the majority of self-righteous jerks in state legislatures. Maybe you just aren't used to being spoon fed things and that's made your tummy a little too tender to deal with anything you might feel is unpleasant. And... does it bother me that periods are brought up in children's shows? No. Menstration _exists_. It's a real thing that real people have to deal with and teaching children about real things so that they can reasonably handle it is a good thing. And does it bother me that there might be a trans person 'in there'? No. Trans people also exist. They are real people. I know a lot of trans people who are terrific people, good parents, and valuable parts of their community. What's so scary about that? It sounds lot a lot of these things you are calling 'evil' and 'forced down your throat' are just really about things that make you feel icky and uncomfortable. Have you considered just developing a bit more strength of character?
I never thought that they emasculated Bruce as the Hulk in this episode. I think that in every physical aspect Bruce's Hulk is way stronger than Jen's, the balance and flexibility being the only thing that Jen seemed better at. Sure she picks things up quicker but I think that was just because they didn't want to have years and different movies to bring the character up to Bruce's level. But his clap was a way more powerful version than Jen's she just used it differently as a sonic thing. But I didn't see Bruce as being brought down to make Jen stronger, I just think they quickened the progression of Jen in order to get to the storylines they wanted to show in the movie which kinda makes her seem too powerful out of the gate. So far I really enjoy this show.
@@Rushking20 yeah, I watched their ms marvel reactions and after every episode they were saying that it's a kids show and not dark and stuff and pointing out stuff instead of enjoying for what the show is, so i commented on the 1st episode of She-Hulk that it won't be what they like, usually I don't comment on stuff.
@@rohit7patil The partition episodes of Ms. Marvel were pretty dark for the supposedly lighter tone first introduced in episode 1. And the great-grandmother Aisha getting murdered by Najma is certainly not something one would expect to find in a simple kids' show. I agree they spent a lot of time, maybe too much time, worrying about what age group the show was aimed at. I mean, come on, Holden's favourite comic book character is Spider-Man which is definitely one of the most kid-oriented franchises around. Yet he doesn't preface every Spider-Man reaction with as disclaimer that the movie/show is not aimed at his age group.
Jen Walters never said that men could never understand what it's like to have to control their anger or whatever. She just said that she knows how to control herself because of her own personal experiences that she has lived through her whole life, just like how Bruce had to, just in a different way. That's not the same as her saying she's better or anything, she's just saying that Bruce is trying to project his own experiences onto her when she isn't going through the same thing as he did. They're different paths to get to the same place. As for "Jen's doing everything better than Hulk and is putting men down", that's also inaccurate. She was barely able to go toe-to-toe with Hulk in her fight against him. She got a few good hits in, but that isn't putting Hulk down or lowering his level at all. It's just that she's in control and aware, not replaced by an alter ego, when she's transformed, so that she can actually learn and mentally digest the information that Bruce gave her while training, so she was able to get a handle on things faster. Had Bruce not had to go through struggling with "another guy for 10 years", and had someone to train HIM, it would've been the same. Don't view it as them trying to put Bruce Banner down, just view it like Jen's on a different journey than Bruce. Also, She-Hulk is a character that existed since 1980. The station that made the Lou Hulk series wanted to make a female Hulk, so Marvel quickly wrote a She-Hulk comic before the program could in order to retain the rights to the concept of a female Hulk. She's been a consistent character in Marvel comics since then, and has had a habit of breaking the 4th wall since the 80's, before Deadpool even existed.
Holden sounds a little sensitive about this too. He watched Hulk one-shot Jen through the air with a single thunderclap and then it took her applauding just to disorient him and he called that her being better at it? He also saw Hulk launch a boulder into the stratosphere. Hulk is shown being stronger/more experienced and Jen is more adaptable/agile.
Not better different. For example with the thunderclap while Bruce does one heavy one she does many small ones it's her character. She shows off and gets more confident with her hulk while Bruce tries to hide his since he is all rage
That's literally the character from the comics on the screen it is what it is. She's had her "savage" moments in the comics too but she's always been a more comedic totally different character than Bruce
And also about every single "she's better" or "it's because she's a woman" thing Holden is complaining about is from the comics, too. Jen started out in control, started out without rage issues and was a comedy with a lot of fourth wall breaking and commentary on being a tall single lady lawyer who is tall, hot, green and single. She-Hulk did "they leaked my nudes" as a plot point before mobile phones were a thing. None of that is an MCU thing or coming from Disney.
She-Hulk has a 40-year history. How she's depicted in the TV series is the same as it has been in the comics for almost a half century. Each of the "gamma mutates" (as they're sometimes referred to collectively) manifested a different kind of change. Even in the Incredible Hulk movie, Emil Blonsky's Abomination was different than the Hulk. Blonsky held onto his intelligence and personality after he transformed. At the end of that movie, the scientist Samuel Sterns was shown beginning to transform into the Leader, who gained super-intelligence rather than super-strength.
Even if you ignore the comics, Bruce's abuse/DID (which we havn't seen in the MCU) and the show's "emotion" logic; it might be helpful to simply look at Jen as a 'diluted' version of Hulk. His blood has 'diluted' the original serum, been hit multiple times with various types of radiation (including the Snap) and she barely got any dosage. So she keeps her personality, and other benefits, without the side effects.
IIRC, Bruce's transformation and powers are "driven by rage" to quote the old TV series, but Jen's were supposedly driven by her own lack of self-confidence and self-esteem- transformations driven by adrenaline, yes- but also the nervousness and adrenaline of feeling awkward and socially inept. She was supposed to be a great lawyer but in her personal life very quiet, kind of mousy and a wallflower. Therefore instead of an out of control creature of rage, *her* Hulk is poised, attractive, strong of course, but actually *more* in control than her human form. They derive from different aspects of the personality. She's a healthier person overall as the Hulk, so she stays that way most of the time in the comic.
MCU no, but there is a Hulk movie from 2003 (called Hulk) that shows that abuse... his father used him as an experiment and he also saw his father kill his mother at a young age.
Did holden ever remember Bruce is always holding back his strength as smart hulk. Like in the scene that show him toss a boulder and she out does him and he proves to her how much he has to control himself by launching an even bigger Boulder into space.
Perspective is interesting. Hearing Holden talk about Thor 4 makes me think he/you watched a totally different movie than the one where Thor levels up to Odin, is so powerful that he accidentally enchants Mjolnir to imbue his power into Jane and talks the bad guy into doing the right thing since he can't overpower him. As for this show, it's pitched as a 30-minute legal comedy so hopefully there will be more. My understanding of the comic character is that she is a satirical character who broke the 4th wall before Daredevil was created. The last scene is weird because apparently, most of episode 1 was originally episode 8 and was edited with the beginning of the original 1st episode to make this. The last scene is weirdly edited to me but the rest of the show is amazing. The Bruce/Jen chemistry is awesome. Without spoiling the mid-credit scenes, I think there's one every episode and they seem to be used differently. Instead of teasers for the future, they seem to be punchlines that each episode is subtly building up to.
Yeah, a scientist that gains super strength (and also only his only toddler-like alter ego has access to it) would be handling it in a very different way.
This is comic accurate. She will ALWAYS have 100% control because unlike Bruce she doesn't have DID- there is no 2nd personality. She-Hulk is overall supposed to be a comedy. She breaks the 4th wall all the time and she did it years before Deadpool. Her hair looks exactly as it does in the comics. On her best day she's not stronger than the Hulk, mostly because she's different. The Hulk has potentially limitless strength depending on the level of his rage.
This is the "Ally McBeal" clone of the MCU. One of the key differences between Bruce and Jennifer is that Bruce has elements of Dissociative Identity Disorder - which is why at first he couldn't remember what he did as the Hulk because The Hulk is an alter - whereas Jennifer Walters is just Jennifer Walters. I know it seems like they're minimizing Bruce's experience and his 15 years of trauma and making Jennifer Walters seem like a Mary Sue, but being a trial lawyer she would have to learn VERY QUICKLY to bottle her emotions. As for HOW she got to be She-Hulk, the inhibitor that Bruce wore was part of his therapy and part of his personality integration, so he CAN be injured (both as Bruce and Hulk - his right arm in Endgame, etc) and open wound to open wound transmission of Hulk blood makes sense in this context. In the COMICS, it was a blood transfusion - here it's a car accident. When it comes to fourth wall breaks, that was something intentional - she most famously did it on the cover of "Sensational She-Hulk #1" (released May 1989) where she threatens to come to the reader's house and rip up their X-Men comics. Deadpool didn't appear until "New Mutants #98" (released February 1991).
Not sure if you noticed, but the vehicle seems like it was actually custom made for someone as big as the Hulk to use. Hence, Walters having to use a phone book to reach. Also, since we had Smart Hulk instead of the OG raging Hulk, he was taking it easy on his cousin trying not to actually hurt her. I wouldn’t expect him or anyone to go full on rage mode when it’s just a simple family squabbling.
Holden you guys need to either watch some She-Hulk shows or read some of the comics. She was always able to control the transformation from the beginning and she never had the double personality as Hulk does. She is not as strong as Hulk in the comics but can hold her own with him. She took on the world-breaking Hulk and had to calm him down many times through the years. But she was never better than Hulk and had to learn her capabilities but such she kept her mind she was able to control them better than the Hulk, the big difference between her and Hulk is she does not get strong with anger but she has the ability to absorb more gamma radiation for short periods of bursts to become stronger.
Also fyi she wasn't better then him at the thunderclap she just did it more rapidly and not as strong as he did cuz it was her first time trying that His thunderclap was more powerful and controlled while hers was more random in power and more destructive to the surrounding area (notice when he did it the Jeep behind Jen was perfectly intact)
I disagree with Bruce being looked at as lesser. A lot of the Hulk is about hidden trauma and Bruce always fought back against his past traumas instead of taking it on. It took him a long time to accept it and bond with that other persona. Jennifer is more in tune with herself and issues, from the get go in the comics she’s shown to have more control of that persona. It’s the same for Amadeus Cho, who was a version of a Hulk as well. It changes depending on the person and their mental state. I think a lot of people always overlook this.
Yeah She-Hulk was one of the very first Marvel Super Heroes to break the 4th wall, decades before Deadpool She also has been able to control herself since pretty much immediately, but in the comics it's because the Gamma infection is dilluted. She had an accident and Bruce was the only available compatible donnor on short notice, so he gave his blood not knowing what it would do, so she turned into a savage She-Hulk but regained her sanity shortly after since the Gamma radiation wasn't as concentraed (She actually loses her control when exposed to higher levels of Gamma Radiation)
Jen can do most of what the Hulk can do, just scaled down. Pros are that she’s smaller and much nimbler and quicker than than her cousin. In the comics she also got her powers from Bruce’s blood through a blood transfusion. Also fourth wall breaking was a she hulk thing before it was Deadpool’s.
She-Hulk was partially created in jest to poke fun at the sexualization of women in comics, so it's always broken the fourth wall and been more socially aware of the human nature tendencies!
the always broken the fourth wall is not true... she had nearly 10 years of comics before one of her comic series had that as a feature of the character.
I'm not sure what you're saying about Jen's Hulk being stronger than Bruce's. Clearly strength wise she's nowhere near Bruce looking at the boulder throwing scene, and as for the Hulk clapping thing, she needs to do it multiple times in a row to do anywhere near the same damage as Banner when he does it. Bruce was going easy in her and could have clapped a second time to blow her away again. The entire fight showed Bruce more annoyed than struggling in any way.
I also watched the Hulk old show and in season 2 there're some episode with her. If you watch it. You will see that she was able to control her transformation and she could talk from the very beginning also breaking the 4th wall
She’s not better she’s just different. Jennifer didn’t say Bruce would never understand she’s just saying hey I can control my anger I’ve been doing it for a very long time and from the reactors I’ve seen the women they seem to agree like it is a different struggle. We don’t know how it is speaking as a man. And Bruce has DID so that’s why it was harder for him but I’m sure u heard that from the comments. So far this is one of my faves it’s a fun show and she hulk in the comics is a comedic comic and it make sense to make it a comedic show. Definitely a strong opening can’t wait to see more
I read this as an article but this idea brings me joy: Technically, in the filmed MCU, Jennifer Walters isn't the first hulk. Way back in the incredible hulk, Stan Lees cameo drank some of the hulks blood - and if we're believing that stan Lees cameos are all the same character - it means he survived the gamma radiation, and the idea of him running around off screen as a hulk really brings me joy.
The backstory in this episode was supposed to be episode 8 in the series, but late in production they flipped the order, so the VFX teams suddenly had way less time. So there were deliberate editing choices to help alleviate the crunch time necessary for the heavy VFX work.
I feel like one crucial aspect that a lot of people don't know is that in the comics Bruce had a very abusive childhood and developed DID, which is part of the reason why he hulks out and had to fight "the other guy" all the time. I feel like Bruce doesn't fully understand that he had DID and just assumed the hulk persona was a side effect of the gamma radiation, which is both right and wrong in some senses. It moreso gave hime a vessel to channel the anger of that other persona. This is why he was so confused when Jen could automatically control her hulk form, because she doesn't struggle with another persona. Unfortunately, the MCU hasn't delved into a lot of the deep character points of Banner, but hopefully this series will open up more of that. (Which I would be SUPER excited to see) Also, as others have said, I feel like they are not necessarily trying to say that Jen is better than Bruce, it's just that they are better at different things, and thus they will also have entirely different struggles that they face. And I feel like they are setting it up to where Jen will realize she was wrong about some of the things she said to Bruce in regards to her already knowing exactly what she is doing. I've been fairly happy with the series so far and I'm excited to see where it goes from here
When this was first advertised my favourite criticism that I read was "Jeez Marvel is going full Woke, Stan Lee would be turning in his grave" She-Hulk was the last character created for Marvel by Stan Lee. It was intentionally created to try and get the female demographic to read comics. The fact she retains her own mind and can change at will is all from the original comic. In the comic she was often happier to retain the She-Hulk form, she felt comfortable in the body. Due to special FX costs I doubt that will be the case here. The 4th wall breaks made popular to film fans by Deadpool started in the comics with the second comic run of She-Hulk started by John Byrne before the Deadpool comic did it. In the comic she actually visits John Byrne in his office, will we get a visit to Marvel Studios in this series? Maybe.
@@petrinafilip96 I think it's because she is really unlikable, snarky and has the must be better syndrome without showing any previous drama that could justify it
She also is not better than Bruce. Her Hulk form is set and scales up only by changes to her normal human body. Bruce has no real limits of how strong he can get as his powers are linked to his mental state and emotions. Only way that She-Hulk can get stronger is to train her human form. So she is noway better than Hulk really just another version of him but weaker. Not trying to claim any Hulk is weak but she is not one of the strongest of them.
I mean they didn't downgrade hulk for this show, they did it way back in infinity war so the movie didn't end right away. Plus I'm pretty sure they show hulk being stronger in this (Thunderclap did more damage from just 1 burst, and he threw a bolder into the stratosphere) I think that when the hulks fought ( hitting him with the truck and boxing after😅), Bruce was going easy on Jen just trying to subdue her and keep her there not actually hurt her. And he didn't wanna break his jeep so he took a dive instead of cruching the jeep😅😅
Agree. The jeep thing is the only part that bothers me. Even if he "let" the jeep push him back, that jeep isn't going anywhere with him on the hood and it definitely isn't enough force to toss him back into the rocks.
How was Jen's clap better than Bruce's? He had one single clap that sent her flying. Her claps weren't strong on their own so she had to create a combo of them to push him back.
holden, i think you're looking at it wrong. they aren't making she hulk better than the hulk, they're just making her different. they showed that bruce is still stronger than her. hulks thunder clap was more powerful than hers, but hers is different and as powerful in its own way. i wouldn't say one is better than the other. they're not trying to say that men are bad, they're just trying to show that women have different experiences than men.
@@andyrobin7196 I mean there's more to it than that. And isn't anger management issues a big part of Bruce Banner's characters so jen isn't wrong about her controlling her anger better than him. He literally destroyed cities due to his issues.
@@themiIes They are going into it WANTING to see those things, because they have made up their mind before even watching it. You could already see Holden Looking for excuses before even watching.
@@andyrobin7196 and because her powers are different? She isn't as strong as Hulk (as Bruce threw the boulder into fucking SPACE and showed his thunderclap was waaaay stronger than hers), but also her transformation doesn't come with the additional personality, others in the comments have explained why. So for Bruce, his anger management is way more important, cause not only is he crap at it, him getting angry releases a monster who always destroys. Jen getting angry just means she gets stronger, so as long as she can control her anger, which she can do better than Bruce partially because of her experiences as a woman, she's right, she'll be fine. But sure, woke culture war SJW bad I guess
18:10 - This is one of the first times I've really seen Holden on the verge of being EXACTLY the person he was talking about when he talks about "those guys" online. They absolutely did NOT emasculate Bruce in this show. They didn't downplay his strength or his intelligence. Scoffing at the idea of women having different life experiences - which Holden absolutely did in this video - is a really narrow, horrible view to take. I think Holden may watch this video back and realize he's sounding exactly like the "problem fans" he was talking about. But maybe he won't, which would be an incredibly sad thing to see. Holden, I think you're better than what you put on display in this video.
well he did cut the video. he's already seen it again. i just hope he listens to all the comments and takes it to his heart. i can't fathom the cringe when men try to slither themselves out of obvious missteps.
I don't think he's scoffing at the idea of different life experiences, but the idea that anyone would try to compare being cat called and sexualised to the trauma that Bruce has been through is absurd.
Completely agree. This was maybe the first time I haven't liked one of Holden's reactions not for a reason like they didn't like the tone of a show and I did (or vice versa), but because it seems like Holden went into this already having the mindset of "they're gonna emasculate the Hulk" or whatever
@@0saintclark0 while I can agree with you about how those 2 things can't compare trauma-wise to what Bruce went through, something I've been seeing is that people only ever talk about the 1st two things she says in that monologue (the cat-called and sexualized) and not the third thing, about how she could potentially be murdered if she doesn't keep her cool, which a lot of people (yes mainly insecure men or whatever) would say is just "woke bs" or something stupid EXCEPT THIS LITERALLY HAPPENED TO A POOR YOUNG LADY LIKE 2 DAYS AGO. A young woman called her mom to come pick her up from a club or something and was murdered by a man (while on the phone with her poor mother) before she even reached the car simply because she said no to him. While this may just be a show, THAT is the main mentality that the show is trying to get across I think, not just that Jen can do it because she's "better" and that it's "woke for woke sake" or something (which is bull), but because woman literally Do HAVE TO, learn that they need to (for the most part, not all of us of course, but most woman) control their emotions and stuff because we never know how toxic, fragile, insecure men will react if we don't. ALONG with the other things she said about how women are treated differently than men when they act angrily or aggressively or Whatever. So imho Jen saying that she is already good at controlling her emotions doesn't seem like a far-fetched thing to me. Which also goes along with what everyone else has been commenting to Holden, that it doesn't mean she can do it in a "better" way, just for different reasons that Bruce, and also that she doesn't have an alter ego like Bruce.
Holden pointing out that women can be powerful but it shouldn’t be at the expense of making men look bad, is a reasonable statement however I want to point out that the misogyny in the work place happens quite often and I think it is important that this show points these themes out. Also when both Holden and Jen point out that it’s kind of a kitschy comedy... well yes that’s the point of the show. It may have its serious moments but this show was intended to have comedy throughout.
Honestly I really like the episode and I don't think the Hulk looked weak in this episode. I think the difference between the "claps" each of them have are just different. Like, hers is sound-based and his is air-based. He throws them back and she just makes it harder for him to hear.
I actually think I know why Jen's hair changes when she does! If every part of her body gets bigger, then it stands to reason her hair does too. As Jen she's got really tight curls, but as She-Hulk her hair gets thicker and longer, and thus heavier. So the curls straighten out under their own weight, like putting a weight at the end of a spring. But even then it's not fully straight, it looks more wavy
FYI, she controls the change way way way better, but she doesn't regenerate faster, just differently, that's why it helps Bruce. That aside, she's not as strong or enduring as the Hulk. She's also a fair depiction of what the character is in the comics, 4th wall breaking included.
Comic books and indeed, fiction in general are built on co-incidence. Jen does accept his advice, she does stick around and does the training montage. Once again, her self control is from the comics. She never had the anger issues that Bruce had.
I dont think any of it was at the expense of men. She didnt say that she was superior in any way, just that anger and stress are things she deals with everywhere. I dont understand how people (men in particular) watch this episode and somehow think Jen was talking down to Bruce.
she was 100% talking down to him though? She says she manages her anger infinitely more than him because she's been catcalled, while ignoring all the trauma he's been through
@@andyrobin7196 she has spent her entire life dealing with controlling her anger and stress and frustrations. Bruce has been doing it for 15 years. So yea she's been doing it longer.
@@andyrobin7196 "she was talking down to him" I kind of agree with that statement, but she did it out of anger. I don't read it as "she ignored the trauma", she tried to explain why she thinks she can handle the anger better (she seems to be more passive-aggressive rather than smashing things). The Hulk, who seems to be a different personality and seems to only grow on his own very brief experiences, handles it more like a toddler.
@@UncleKoolaids Bruce has been abused from early in his childhood by his dad. His mother got murdered by his father. He has been hunted by kill squads for years now, most people view him as a Monster. Being the hulk caused him to have to live secluded from society, have no real friends, except for The Avengers(and in particular Tony). He has recently dealt with the loss of a friend(Tony) and love interest(black widow). I can keep going, point is, being catcalled and mansplained to are a joke compared to what Bruce has gone through. The Hulk persona is a result of all the trauma he went through. He has to perfectly control his anger or he levels a city. Jen cant control her anger as good as she says btw, she was about to harm the dudes who did nothing else than catcall her before Bruce knocked her out.
I realized that every comment I would have made has already been made by other people, though I do want to point out that at no point did the show say that Jen is BETTER than Bruce. Jen says she is better than Bruce, however, we also see that she is very competitive with her cousin. She does not struggle with controlling her fear/anger the way that Bruce does because she does not have "another hand on the wheel," which took Bruce a decade to come to terms with. And her ability to change forms at will is the equivalent of the "I'm always angry" moment from the Avengers movie. Keep watching. I've seen the second episode (as well as some other reactors commentary) so I will just say keep watching.
She-Hulk always has been in control and doesn't rage out like Bruce's hulk that's been the way since the 1st comics. And she's not better at anything then the hulk did you see him toss that on boulder in orbit.
Holden, we don't watch these videos to hear what you think that other people might be thinking. We watch them to hear what you and Jenn think about them.
The hair when she transforms has been explained as she hulk is her perfect personification of who she wants to look like... also yeah she has had a better overall life so more in tune woth her own emotions... Bruce in the comics had a terrible father and anger issues that never got resolved.
I'm not sure Holden checks the comments but I waant to share a few of my thoughts Non spoiler thoughts: I love the she-hulk chracter, and the first aand so far only comic run I've ever followed on continuously is she-hulk since the Dan slott Run. she's meant to be fun, and not as troubled as bruce, and most of her comic runs have been more lighter, comedic than Hulk's. I love her design here, she acts a bit different but It's minor, e.g. Jen is supposed to be this timid, mild-mannered lawyer who never socialized much, and her She-hulk form gave her the confidence to put herself out there more (actually, I think it's more of a loss of inhibition than the acquisition of confidence). her lawyer stuff is always fun. Possible Minor Spoilers: The Reason why their hulk forms are different may be explored in the series. you see, Hulk forms seem to bring out a bit of regressed emotions from people, at least that's what it seemed in the comics. Bruce was abused as a child and I'm pretty sure his dad killed his mom, he haad rage inside him because of all this and imagine keeping all that bottled inside for years until he was blasted with gamma radiation. While Jennifer had a very normal childhood with loving parents, her biggest problem was that she focused too much on her studies and not enough time with other people, and that resulted to her getting more comfortable in her hulk form, more confident (and actually more promiscous, so much that she got kicked out of living at the Avengers HQ in the comics because she kept breaching the security by bringing home men (supermodels and the such) almost every night and a rumour spreading that she slept with the Juggernaut, which was untrue by the way).
In the first few issues of her comic She was more "Savage" but she began to be written more reactionary in her own book and Marvel didn't want to just retread old story concepts covered by the Hulk so first they upped her intelligence and learned how to control her transformations at will Then started to draw her more hot then brutish. In a later story she saved the day but she lost her ability to transform and was stuck as She Hulk 24-7 She was okay with it then as the characters grew to enjoy it, writer artist began crafting more off the wall adventures. Her show feels a bit like a John Byrne issue of the comic.
This show is supposed to be a half hour comedy lawyer show with The addition of superhero shit being thrown into it so I have a feeling the comedy is going to be here to stay for most of the series I think they will be a couple more serious moments but for the most part I feel it’s going to be mostly a comedy
Enjoyed the reaction! Just a heads up, every episode will have a post credit scene :) This show is has been confirmed to be a comedy show first and foremost. I agree with Jen in that I do hope there are some serious moments in the show, which I think there will be. Not going to expect too much though, hopefully some good laughs. Can't wait to see the follow up reactions!
I actually understand her "tirade". It's directly tied to the bar scenario and she had been dealing with her male cousin beating her over the head with the training. (which is why i didn't like the "baseline for any woman line" that seems to have come out of nowhere considering Bruce had not really brought up anything associated to that) And she's not particularly better at Hulk in anything. (e.g. He just lightly wrist flicks a boulder, she over hand tosses one. Both are naturally super strong, and simply throwing something isn't a skill, obviously not talking about Track and Field throwers) If anything it's overemphasizing Bruce's lack of expectations... not in a malicious way but in a brotherly way. Bruce, especially in the Ang Lee Hulk, is a deeply traumatized individual with a terrible father. Also take into account we live in a society where men kinda repress emotions without any healthy outlets, leading to outbursts or worse. Jen for all intents and purposes grew up in a healthy environment with loving parents, great friends, and healthy outlet for all the stuff she has to deal with. Being a Hulk is just another hurdle that shes ready to jump over.
"I'm hoping for intense moments." Now that got a good laugh out of me. I suggest you familiarize yourself with what She Hulk actually is in the comics lol and it'll be easier to watch and enjoy this. Trying too hard to make it different? Nah, they are not changing anything, they are making this exactly what She Hulk is. She Hulk is extremely, extremely lighthearted, breaks the 4th wall constantly, She just doesn't deal with the extra Hulk stuff Bruce does because of scientific reasons. Jen is far weaker than Bruce, he goes easy on her and see how far he throws the Boulder compared to her. This is a legal sitcom. See it as either a breath of fresh air or second hand smoke. People like her lawyer partner or those punks are assholes. Some people are like that. Not saying all men are like that, Jesus Christ. The lesson is not to be like them and sometimes you need to ignore them and sometimes deal with them. She is talking 1 on 1 with Bruce. She has all this weight on somehow needing to be a superhero and doesn't want it at all, and being told to control her anger. Jen perceives Bruce as projecting(A weak thing that some people do), when in reality he is wise and wants her to use her advantage to everyone's benefit. She goes through things men don't and only some man understand, that doesn't mean all men are bad, and of course the irony is that despite knowing Bruce's past, she cannot even imagine the suffering and anger he's gone through. She is novice and has progression to go through. It's meant to demonstrate how naive she is.
Guys this is a lawyer comedy. Not an action show. I hope y’all get into more as it gets more into it. Also, She Hulk has always been in full control of her hulk form with her personality remaining.
They sort of billed it as a lawyer comedy, but it's clearly not going to be one. We thought we were going to get a "case of the week" type thing, but the writers have admitted they don't know how to write courtroom scenes. It's a shame IMO.
@@arubial1229 writers admitted that they can't writing an exciting single trial that lasts an entire season so you are wrong there. We are literally getting multiple trials in this season just like you want.
@@arjunts7646 I am enjoying the show as it is. I just think they have slightly misrepresented it so far. The show has "Attorney at Law" in the title and the poster shows her walking up steps to a courtroom, but the episodes are way too short to provide us with any of that so far.
@@arubial1229 they have to tell her origin story and set her up as the defendant for Abomination. I imagine from now onwards, its gonna be about how she earns him the parole. Legal battle takes place outside the courtroom too so we will prolly see that too.
One thing that must be take into account is that Hulk didn't have anyone to help him with his powers, to show him a path and to train. That's another reason why seems that She Hulk got the hang of things very easy. She had the help that Bruce never got. That's actually sweet but Bruce took the wrong approach to deal with Jen like both had the same struggles. Jen/She Hulk is a completely different that Bruce/Hulk. She might not be as strong but she is more agile.
Holden probably heard the murmurs online about how "woke" and "feminist" this show and has an agenda that entering this show he has already a formed opinion. Watching the 1st episode he probably picked along the way on where the pre conceived opinions he heard and justify that notion everytime Jen Walters expressed her experience. Jen is clearly no better than Bruce physically . We all now Hulk skills set and Jen has a different set. 1st time I thumbs down a video from this channel but I respect Holden's opinions..They need to probably re-watch the 1st episode with an open mind and a little background of She Hulk to appreciate the nuances of what is a She Hulk/Jen Walters vs Bruce Banner/Hulk setting aside the Man vs Women agenda (which clearly is none). If he still has the same opinion I''ll still respect him cause that is what we all need discussing topics like this.
@@chanelle5068 yeah, i started to watch this channel more mindful because i also felt like they get more and more cynical and lean towards the whole "anti-woke" bs.
@@chanelle5068 No, troglodytes have been making woke a curse word in their attempt to fight a culture war. Disney has been doing the same as they always have.
@@the_common_ground The right wing is trying desperately to brand themselves as anti woke which is the first shot. You fools think characters merely existing is some kind of attack on men.
I think it's pretty clear that Bruce is holding back during their fight so he doesn't hurt Jen. Also her claps aren't nearly as strong as his. They make it very clear that he's stronger in the Boulder scene. Also the male lawyer is a characature of misogyny. The rest of the men in the show are normal people
It's a shame the advertising hasn't done a good job at setting the right expectations for this show but, this show is actually gonna work very different from ur other MCU shows. Its basically a week to week esk' sitcom. So something between the office and Loki. There is a story going through the season, but it wont be as dramatic as ur other shows. This really is gonna be a hulk trying to live her life as a lawyer. When it comes to she hulk managing her powers early, I think it actually has to do with "getting it out of the way". I dont think the writers wanted Jen's struggles with her powers to be the origin story of the show, but her journey figuring out how she can maintain her life as a hulk, and figuring out she probably does need to become a superhero/lawyer ultimately. I also doubt she wont have any problems with her powers at all btw. I have to agree that Jen is set up as overly confident, thinking she's on top of everything, when she really isnt. Great reaction as all ways!
Her origin story very closely parallels that in the comic. This whole idea of being sensitive towards men's feelings, I mean come on. This is not portraying men as these terrible horrible weak creatures...that's a little bit of an exaggeration. "Emasculated"? Give me a break, dude. She's *supposed* to be different. It's the character. The clapping? She doesn't overpower him, at all. She has to do it many times to have a fraction of the effect. In fact, he makes a little bit of a point to show that that's not the case. As for the tone of the show, it's very true to the comic, which is a little more comedic in tone. She was the first Marvel character to break the fourth wall - before Deadpool. As for a woman counterpart having some strengths that the male counterpart, that doesn't take anything away from the male version. There's no zero-sum situation for superpowers, lol.
@@andyrobin7196 I would think they changed her origin because Bruce wouldn't want to "curse" anyone else with hulkness? You saw that he destroyed her blood after he tested it.
@@andyrobin7196 pretty sure they altered it because why would bruce have a blood transfusion kit ready on the go and I doubt he would want to give his hulkness that he views a curse to his cousin. This origin in the show does the job and gets right to the point without spending the whole episode on another origin story. When it comes to writing a mini series they have to make cuts and adjustments.
@@andyrobin7196 In the MCU he already knows his blood is toxic, where in the comics he gives her a transfusion and *doesn't* know. Continuity is a thing.
She-Hulk is a fan favorite of mine ever since I seen her in the 90s hulk cartoon, and even though people are saying she’s not like her comic counterpart, it’s as accurate as it can be with tweaks to make it fit into the mcu
Well there were a couple moments where she actually was more primal. Like in the bar just after and In the sawblade room. They didn't last long, but they were there, imo.
1. Stan Lee turned into a hulk after taking a sip of soda in the Incredible Hulk. That’s why Bruce is so protective of his blood samples. 2. Bruce is ashamed of the savage side of his hulk form and he’s letting his mind hold him back. You see that when they travel back to 2012 and he’s embarrassed to smash things. 3. The hair is a well know thing in the comics. Hulks hair changes considerably depending on the version he turns into. The Gamma powered hero Doc Samson has his power centralized in his green hair. The longer it gets the stronger he becomes but the harder it is to control his emotions so he needs to cut it to regain control and lose his powers like the biblical namesake. 4. Read some of the original comic book. It was a mostly comedic book that broke the fourth wall and pointed out all the weird and hard to believe things in the marvel universe while Jen has conversations with the Artist of the comic and the audience reading. 4. I think this shows going to win a lot of people over once they have time to explain more things. The first episode is very rushed for the sake of not wasting time.
I don't really think that she is stronger or better than the hulk for numerous reasons; First of all, one clap from bruce sent her flying. She does lots of little more directed claps that make the soundwaves the hulk hates, as shown in the first movie when the army attacked him. Bruce threw a boulder in to orbit, and not to forget, this is 'smart hulk', not the full enraged full hulk from the first avengers. In the comics she was better at controlling her anger and forms than bruce is. She is more slender and less bulky which helps balance and agility. Bruce also has been abused for most of his early life by his father and has an alter ego to battle with for control. Finally I think it's always been shown that Bruce is a much stronger hulk, in the comics at least.
I don't feel like one is better than the other, they're different people with different strengths and weaknesses, and in my opinion, the show did pretty well showing that
Yea also hulk obviously wasn't trying to hurt her at any point lol. Holden was way off on most of his comments.
Yes, his clap sent her flying. She just was excited by discovering it, and kept doing it repeatedly, and he wasn't moved at all, he just didn't like the noise.
Totally agree. I was going to make a similar comment but yours pretty much says it all.
Agreed. You have to assume that each person will manifest powers slight different. Nothing is better or worse in the training montage. They both are similar in that they can even process gamma radiation the same; it would kill almost anyone else. And Bruce Banner/Hulk has changed significantly since 2008-2012, so change is possible. I've seen a lot of comments about Bruce's childhood abuse, and not being familiar with the comics, that seems to be a salient point about the why in their differences. Maybe that should have been touched on in the show to educate others?
1. She’s a woman half his size
technically Bruce’s hair changes too, the short hair just doesn’t show it as much, it goes from a longer gray to a short dark green
Yeah now that you say it, Bruce has also curly hair, where the Hulks seems to be straight and short.
He also gets way bigger than Jen, so I imagine his longer hair just looks more proportional on a way bigger head
Bruce has DID, Jen doesn't. That's why she can control her transformations and Bruce not: Hulk is an alter.
I need to see Stephen/Marc interact with Bruce.
Does it say he said that comment 7 days ago for y’all?
@@CRISPYPOP Patreon supporters get the video week early. They upload the video on youtube as hidden and post link to it on patreon. So the patreon people can watch it but it will only show up to others week later.
@@CRISPYPOP Yep, its half half 7 days and 6 minutes
The other thing too is in the comics is leader and abomination didnt have alternate personalities either to further your point.
The reason Jennifer doesn't have to deal with all the stuff Bruce did, and was able to succeed so quickly, is because she wasn't fighting a literal split personality rage monster in her head caused by the trauma of an abusive family life growing up. You know, the childhood where Bruce was beaten by his father, who he also watched murder his mother. Comparatively Jennifer had a very normal childhood.
Yeah but as we're told in this episode, she gets cat called which means she's dealt with way worse trauma than him. 🤦🏼♂️
MCU Hulk didn't have a bad childhood, you are thinking of the non-canon version
with Eric Bana
@@0saintclark0 bro you did not understand at all
@@0saintclark0 ur probabaly like 6 but females are emotional as hell and she’s a female that can control her emotions the cat calling wasn’t the point simple psychology
@@theldeliveryman8978 lol you accuse me of being 6 (I'm 31) then claim that all females are emotional as hell.
From what i have found out Jen is more control because Bruce had another personality (alter) due an abusive father, very similar to Moonkight. Hence why Bruce references "another hand on the wheel" or calling him the "other guy." Since Jen doesn't have another personality she is able to be transform and still be herself
another? theres like 15 people on his nogging
mr fix it, the savage one, the world breaker, the devil hulk
@@kR-qj7rw That's Comic Hulk, this is MCU Hulk. 'Savage Hulk' is pretty much dead after they chumped him out to Thanos and got rid of him for Smart Hulk, which is just Banner with Hulk strength. The rest don't exist, he just seems to have had 2 identities.
@@Bananahammock681 and that could all change becaue og hulk also did not start with that many people inside
A lot of people thought she was downplaying Bruce's struggles. Yes she was being a jerk, and that was acknowledged. As well as her acknowledging his suffering when she said "Why would you want that for me?" Then she apologized at the end, half assed, but Bruce still knew she was sincere. She obviously has problems being straight forward with how she feels and projects them in other ways. Like anger.
She was also referring to Bruce pre-hulk. She wasn't discounting everything he went through after becoming the hulk. She's talking about why she is having an easier time with it after immediately being changed than he did after immediately being changed....and thats pretty much exactly his story arc in the incredible hulk film.
@@FullMetalB that is more insensitive if it was pre-hulk because Bruce had "infinitely more" hardship than being catcalled.
When was it acknowledged and when did she apologize? It was not a flaw but written as a powerful momen for "women empowerment" or whatever. "infinitely more times than you" is as bad as the x-women line.
@@nongmaithemavinash3977 not in the MCU
@@FullMetalB "not in the MCU" so all her presumption was gender based? She assumes she's had it worse than Bruce because he's a man? That's just worse.
Well She-Hulk as a character is much comedic than Hulk in the comics so tone of the series fits i think
About the too different arguement in comics they are very very different characters just their powers are same that's all
Yeah that’s what people don’t understand
She-Hulk is a more comedic character but it is a much smarter level of comedy. This was lower level of comedy that simply tries to one up on others as a form of comedy.
Comics Jen certainly broke of the fourth wall to make smarter remarks compared to, say, Deadpool's low brow jokes. She loved being a lawyer and a superhero whereas this show tries to make her only care about being a lawyer because it's a male dominated field and being a superhero means nothing to her... yet.
Even in regards to her looks, comics Jen was sexy without being slutty and took confidence in that. Even when the comic artist/writer/editor tried to over sexualize her she called it out in a fourth wall break and brought it back to classy level. This Jen just seems so negative about her feminine manner that she comes off over masculine. Even lacked the self awareness that she put catcalls and the like over the struggles Bruce has endured.
The show is using comedy but it's the type of comedy that punches down and that's only funny if you're doing it to someone that is irredeemable.
@@jessecortez9449 I think by the end of the show she will embrace her superhero identity
jenn she-hulk has been around since 1980 and she was breaking the 4th wall way before Deadpool . unlike the way they had her get the blood of hulk in the comics she needed a blood trasfusion and bruce was the only 1 who's blood matched hers and unlike this show she was proud to be she-hulk and didn't blame bruce
I think this is where this series is going. To her starting to appreciate b9eng the Hulk
@@jakubgodyn7413 well this show is mid
@@syxpcotic9452 The series just began lol, they already confirmed a certain character's MCU existence in ep2 as a lil easter egg
@@syxpcotic9452 it just came out weirdo lmao
@@petersansil1781 yea ik, its still mid
She-Hulk is not better than Hulk at Thunder Clapping, she is different. The visual effects match those from the Hulk film with the Sound Waves that affected the Hulk.
Bruce was not "emasculated" in this, strengthwise he was better at everything. Jen's main difference is agility and tyhe control she has, which is of course from the comics.
this
Yup
Yeah Bruce has no real limits of how strong he can get. Jen's powers are set and can only become stronger by training her human body. She being more agile and not losing control makes her unique not better.
Shes a lightweight, hes a super heavyweight. She can use agility to compensate for lack of brute power. That was really nicely shown with the thunderclap scene.
Thought this was so obvious, but it's been so interesting seeing certain ppl immediately get so in their feelings & triggered that they completely missed it and saw what they wanted to see!
The main reason it took Bruce so long to deal with the Hulk while Jen picked it up easily, is because Bruce has DID from his abusive childhood. The Hulk is basically an expression of how Bruce views himself. Since Jen doesn’t have this mental baggage, it was more natural for her
In regards to the comedy, don’t get your hopes too high, as She Hulk in the comics was always a pretty comedic character given the 4th wall breaks and stuff (which she actually broke the 4th wall before Deadpool did, fun fact). So it’ll definitely very much so lean into that legal sitcom type feel
And finally in regards to the woman at the end, her name is Titania. I don’t wanna get into spoiler territory incase the show remains true to the comics with how she gets her powers, but let’s just say she got her powers from a VERY big and important villain in Marvel’s history
But an abusive childhood has never been established in the MCU.
kuhpunkt Yeah I know, and it’s extremely unfortunate. I blame Universal for a lot of that, given they haven’t allowed a solo Hulk movie to be made since 2008. But it’s rumored that Marvel is getting the rights back summer next year so maybe we’ll get more depth explored with him finally
Who was he abused by?cuz if those were his parents in ep2 I don’t think it was them (but looks can be deceiving)
@@Unknown69846 The parents in EP2 is her parents. Bruce and Jennifer a cousins.
@@kuhpunkt doesn’t matter. Stop playing semantics. Y’all want something to not like so bad..
The MCU is expanding to almost have different genres within itself now
So Ms Marvel was the teen high school show
This is a straight up 30 minute lawyer/sitcom style show
I wouldn't expect too many dark and serious moments
This will be different from the previous 6 episode limited series format we've have for most other Disney+ shows
Quick question out of context. How is this comment up a week ago? It was just released 35 minutes ago for me. Just curious
@@ChipCrisper they video was probably previewed about a week ago, so it let people comment before vid comes out
@@ChipCrisper Early access on Patreon
If they ever do add dark shit and rated r shows and movies, the sky is the limit omg
@@jaylenclement Marvel's Zombies is rated TV-MA
Yeah the hair thing is a comic thing - also the fact that her hair actually takes on a green tinge. She's a very different character to her cousin Bruce. I think if people don't overthink it, it's very enjoyable. Ep 2 gets a lot more into what her story is going to be, while this was basically setup and backstory.
Yup, in the comic she had mousey hair as Jen. They are using a lot of the Comics
And Bruce’s hair changes too, his goes from slightly mid cut wavy to short with a fade but no one notices
I think most of these comments have nailed it. I just want to add a couple cents that I didn't see. I feel that Professor Hulk isn't the strongest version of himself so saying she is stronger is not quite accurate and I also believe his second rock though were he launches the thing off the planet was kind of their way of saying he was holding back with her.
The line in the books was always that Prof. is at base Hulk level, which isn't that strong, but brute Hulk does the "gets stronger as he gets angrier" with no top limit, so base Hulk is weaker than a ton of Marvel characters but pissed off Hulk is... well, the strongest there is.
I think it's also that Bruce isn't trying to show off but instead teach her how to control her strength, until he realizes she's trying to show off and then he immediately does too, which is just typical cousin banter
Hulk first toss’s the boulder while not even looking what he is doing. He throws palm up with one hand. Like someone casually shooting hoops in their backyard.
Then after She Hulk uses both hands and all her strength. To throw her boulder pass Hulk’s.
Then he put his next boulder into space.
It's being billed as Marvel's first foray into a half-hour sitcom type of show which fits with the comics. The fourth-wall breaking was done by She-Hulk in the comics long before Deadpool even came about. Great review, as always, love you guys, take care!
didnt wandavision start as a half hour sitcom format?
@@andyrobin7196 I think it was longer, around 45 minutes, but yes, in a way it was, but it wasn't how Marvel billed the show. I like Marvel's brand of humor, which pops up in a lot of shows and movies, but I think it's gonna be more prevalent in She-Hulk. And I'm here for it. :)
@@micksailor4715 no, WV was absolutely a half hour 9 episode show. Not one episode broke the 40 min mark. Most were under 30 if you don't count the credits. It and She Hulk were designed to be more like sitcoms than the other shows.
@@ChipCrisper Okay, cool, my mistake.
@@andyrobin7196 in a way yes but that was more because of the story and not the type of show it was.
Somebody else pointed this out, and I'm sure more than one person did. When the Hulk was originally created, the anger and the loss of control was part of being the Hulk. That was retconned into being that Banner suffers from Dissociative identity disorder. So the reason she has control without the rage is because she is the same personality when she transforms. It isn't that she is stronger than him, because physically she isn't. His strength is connected to his anger and the last I knew there was no known limit as to how strong he could get, but he gets stronger the more he gets angry. Her strength doesn't work the same way.
I've read somewhere that hers was more connected to feeling awkward or powerless, that Jen Walters was supposed to be a timid, almost doormat type of person except in court. Therefore, She-Hulk is beautiful, charismatic, witty, and thoroughly in control. Bruce's rage makes him a monster, the opposite of the passive Banner personality; Jen's insecurity makes her hulk into an idealized, high-powered (in a personality sense as well as literal powers), complete person. It's why she winds up staying She Hulk most of the time in the comics.
Important to keep in mind Hulk and She-Hulk are not gender swapped versions of the same character. The She-Hulk name may be derivative, but the character is not. She has always been her own thing.
As far as the short monologue about woman’s emotional experience. Many people seem to have taken that as the show making a statement. I saw it as a character flaw that she will need to work on throughout the show. She has a lack of empathy for other peoples experiences and is unwilling to listen to her cousins advice. Could this be…gasp…a character arc???
Just because a character says something, doesn’t imply that the show making a claim about some “global truth”. Literally 5 minutes later she says “I was right, Bruce is wrong and I never have to be a hulk”, which we know for a fact is not true.
As for the differences between their hulk forms, and Jen being able to control hers immediately. We have seen a number of people affected by hulks blood in the MCU and they were all affected differently. In the comics her transformation was less extreme because she got a much smaller dose of radiation than Bruce. To assume that the difference between them is only based on gender is a bit silly I think.
The show is not saying that She-Hulk is better than Hulk. Hulk is still significantly stronger, his transformation much more extreme, that’s why it took him years to learn to control it. Hulk’s clap was significantly more powerful and sent her flying. She-Hulk had to do multiple claps just to irritate him!! Yes, she picked him up and threw him, but that’s about her strength and his weight, nothing to do with his strength. A tug boat can easily move a cruise ship, when the cruise ship isn’t resisting.
The names are derivative, but the characters are not. Looking at the differences between them and attempting to expand that to broader statements about gender is a fools errand.
exactly, i cant with every one
She-Hulk is still a derivative character... yes her stories are different from the Hulk's but the character itself is still a derivative of the Hulk.... she is still a female version of the Hulk no matter how different she is from him... it's not just her name that's a derivative of him..
It's weird. Hulk is clearly stronger. He literally threw a rock out of the atmosphere. So why are people saying that She Hulk is stronger? She couldn't even thunderclap, so instead she used repetition so the waves could overwhelm Bruce instead. That just shows that she is resourceful. Her being obsessed with being better than him is less about her being a woman and more about her being a pig-headed and competitive lawyer.
its not that shes stronger its just they are making it seem that she can do thinks faster and better
@@yashkhot the only thing she does better is control her anger
@@yashkhot nope not at all
@@yashkhot it’s hulks problem he gets a alter ego always has been
@@urbent3147 u clearly don’t know anything abt the hulk
This has been the argument since this show came out and why there is a group of people that are bashing it. Everyone just took it as "she's better than The Hulk" and that Jen was saying she has gone through more than him. That's just not the case. Women do deal with daily issues that invoke anger/anxiety/fear more frequently than men. So she has already learned how to control those emotions and why she has better control with changing back and forth between Jen and She-Hulk. I think it's just simply showing that each person has different experiences and reactions to life events, whether man or woman. Also, the show did a good job of making sure that it's obvious that she isn't stronger or better than Hulk. He was clearly holding back when they were doing the training montage and then when they "fought" each other. He's not going to go full on Hulk SMASH mode with his cousin. Loved the reaction though! I think you guys will enjoy the 2nd episode more and I'm looking forward to the rest of the series, I think it'll get better with each episode!
Very true, it’s very much like a sibling fight you may have had over an item like let’s say the Tv remote.
I agree. I think some people's sticking point is, when she is saying that to Bruce, they are thinking about everything he went through AFTER becoming the hulk. Being hunted and all. And the MCU hasn't clarified if his early life was the same as in the comics. So yes, obviously after he became the hulk he went through a lot. But I think it's pretty clear she's referring also to his time before being the hulk. His whole story is based on him NOT having a good control over his anger and fear when he became the hulk...which just proves her point.
16:34 Where did she overpowered him? Let's be honest here, you came here with a pre-set disposition and are seeing what you want to see, because that's bullshit, he clapped once and sent her flying through the air, she had to clap continuously just to annoy him in the ear
no reason to get hostile...
He’s right. This is the one time where Holden had his mind made up before even watching. Nothing he said in the recap made sense. His gripes were unfounded. She’s not better than Bruce. He wasn’t emasculated. Idk what Holden was talking about here…
@@jayfrancelf So why get hostile over opinions? Ah because since he didnt like certain aspects of the show he must be a misogynist. Zzzzzz
@@AmericaFirst-1 where is hostility?
Just like ms marvel they went into the show saying its a kids show even though she’s same age as spiderman they’ll probably hate echo to
They never treated her as better. Just different. There are plenty scene where she takes Bruce’s advice and try’s his suggestions because he has more experience in this situation. He tossed a boulder into the atmosphere. Just because she can control her anger doesn’t make her automatically better. Her trying to one up Bruce is #1 they are family and obviously close. #2 the cut throat nature of law school. They never lowered men. Bruce giving her a safe space to express herself and being there for her should prove that. This all happened so fast for her, that her way of dealing with it is denial. She says she was right, but guess what. She was wrong. Again, never lowered men. Just the scum bags who act like that. I feel like, as a man, if you are secure in your manhood then you would realize they aren’t talking about you. Like… if your in a pool. And the lifeguard says no running… are you gonna think it’s about you? No. Just the idiots who are doing the running around the pool.
Finally someone with sense. The rants about phase 5 have people disagreeing with what you said
@@MrJlee93 thank you. It just seems so easy to understand and people want to complicate it and turn it into something it’s not.
As a man I never ever took any offence when she talked about being cat-called on the streets etc... because I am not one of those men that does that. As you say... a secure man will never take offence over this show.
Agreed
@@TemalCageman yeah Holden seems a little fragile
I think people are mistaking “better” for “different”, Jennifer isn’t better, but different. Her thunder clap wasn’t as strong, it was different and had different effects. Her ability to control anger, I mean is kinda right, she’s used to it, plus it was that way in the comics. I’d say it’s the pacing that doesn’t help.
Also, That male coworker is supposed to be caricature (plus it makes sense now, with men like Andrew Tate existing).
Except she says she controls her anger infinitely more than Bruce when she hasn’t been through half the things that he has. I agree that they’re just different and I hope that scene is just an indication of the character’s arrogance and not the writers arrogance. Furthermore, if you think Andrew Tate is a man to seriously worry about then you just haven’t seen too much in your life.
Except the tone of the better makes him seem like she is indeed better than Hulk(when that's BS)
@@David_Scar notice how she was angry and Bruce was calm and understanding. Sometimes there’s more than what’s being said, and more to how others listen
@@crazycriz5000 She can control her anger much better than Bruce when he first turned into the Hulk so she isn't really wrong
@@pratik9125 But we aren’t talking about when he first became the hulk we’re talking about right now, so yes she is wrong.
I think the idea of the speech she made is that she is different not better. Jen and Bruce have different experiences and so when it comes to being a Hulk Jen has it generally easier. Cuz they way I saw it Bruce still clearly overpowered Jen in their little brawl. Obviously he was holding back cuz he didn’t wanna seriously harm his own cousin. I wouldn’t worry anyway since they seem to have more plans for Bruce later anyway
I agree. I never felt that she was saying that "women are better than men". More about "We have experienced this and therefor we are good at it".
I also thought Hulks whole thing was that he gets stronger when he is angry. He isnt angry at all here and why we would he deliberately try to injure her? All I am seeing here is him testing and helping her as if shes a child. Shes new at this and he gets this.
Also his past obviously points to him being extra careful about everything because hell, he has caused a lot of dmg throughout the years.
Something else is that I think that this was really important for Bruce. His whole life he had no one on Earth who he could relate to his struggles with the Hulk. When Jen became a Hulk as well, he suddenly had someone he could share it with. He must have been increasingly devastated by how quickly and easily she had it all down and wanted nothing to do with any of it. All the things she said about him were right. Out of line, but right. He is lonely and sad but that was his opportunity to fix that. But nope. Miss attorney just needed to go.
@@Kjf365 exactly. Both sides have good reasons. One isn’t better than the other, just different
Jennifer's hair has grown and shortened when she changes between forms ever since her first appearance in The Savage She-Hulk in 1980.
Heads up supposedly every episode of She-Hulk is going to have a post credits scene. (So keep that in mind for reactions;)
She-Hulk for the past 40 years is pretty much like this, she's a very comedic character who breaks the fourth wall.
Jen from the start is VERY different, not better, and that is the message, they have different experiences that lead to them being the Hulk.
When She-Hulk started out in the first few issues, she was just a girl Hulk, and that was boring, then John Bryne made her a comedy book that broke the fourth wall, and became a sleeper hit, jump to early 2000's Dan Slott made She-Hulk into a superpowered Ally McBeal, which was critical darling, which the show takes it's premise from.
Also her hairstyle transforming is a classic Hulk thing (plus it's her classic comic hair), she gains more volume, and Bruce's hair slightly changes too.
Final thing, Bruce isn't going to wreck his car to stop Jen, and Jen isn't as strong as Bruce, so her multiple claps are essentially compensation for a regular Thunder Clap.
On the last point, those claps also mimic the sonic weapons that were effective against Hulk in his film.
The show is supposed to be a straight up comedy. So don't expect them to do less jokes. She is a very funny character in the comics. Didn't understand your take on her being better than Bruce. I didn't see that at all. In fact he proved multiple times in the episode that he's stronger and better.
Yeah I agree with you on that. I didn’t see her being better than hulk.
Yeah he was clearly holding back, evidence by him throwing the damn boulder into the stratosphere. And I heard people talk about other incidents like her being able to push him into rocks with the car. Like that's his cousin. He's not just pick up the whole car and launch her in the ocean. Lol!
@@davidsolizjr exactly lmao
Agreed, she wasn't better, she was just different. He was clearly stronger, throwing that rock into space and he just lobbed the first one without much effort lol. It makes sense she's more flexible/nimble, given their different body types. Bruce's clapping was more power/brute strength, hers was more sonic which hurt his ears, which I would guess was a reference to the sonic weapon in the 1st Hulk movie. And the controlled changing has already been discussed to death.
Holden seem to get in his feelings like a lot of men unfortunately.....I'm a man and I'm dissapointed at the knee jerk reaction to every thing a female character does
I doubt the level of serious drama in this will be any more than you find in Ally McBeal. Its intended to be a lighter comedy, to expect more will probably lead to disapointment.
And yes I think it was confirmed that every episode will have a credit scene. Really with Marvel everyone should be trained to check just in case by now
😃
I'm always amazed when watching MCU movies now 10 years or so in, and bunches of people walk out during the credits.
Jen doesn't seem to like comedy much she's more of the darker tone type
Seeing the first trailer my impression was that the show is going to be a lot like Ally McBeal, but placed in MCU. And it is, so complains there :)
@@rashadwalker8218 Isn't she a big 'Friends' fan?
AFAIK She-Hulk is the first character to break the 4th Wall. Years before Deadpool
With Thor, I feel like you need to understand his trauma and that he's always been bound to duty and expectation. With the Avengers and on Earth, he's learned to loosen up and explore himself more, free from all of that.
Her Thunderclap isn't as strong as Bruce's. But it does have a sonic blast like the sonic guns they used on Bruce in his movie.
I don't imagine Hulk do the same thunderclap as She-Hulk... He could destroy the isle...
I interpreted it more as her using it differently than him. Her attempt at a full thunderclap didn't work, so instead of pulling her arms back for a full one, she did a series of smaller ones more quickly to generate more of a sonic effect than a shockwave effect.
That wasn't a fart joke, she said the point of yoga was to keep her butt tight.
I think it's important to remember that this is intended to be a comedy first (which is how the comics are as well - She-Hulk has always been highly tongue-in-cheek and meta. For example She-Hulk started the fourth wall breaking in Marvel). Don't over analyze it.
(I will now go on to over-analyze it.)
The 'So I'm better' thing isn't a thing about She-Hulk being better, it's about Jen teasing Bruce - they obviously have that sort of relationship (a very sibling-type dynamic). Jen _does_ adapt much quicker, and has much more control over her Hulk form, sure. That's just Jen being different. She-Hulk is like that in the comics as well - she's a different type of Hulk than Bruce. And that means different in terms of narrative and tone as well.
Jen's speech about controlling her anger is her version of 'Because I'm always angry'. And, to be honest, it _is_ what it is like to be a woman in America, especially in high-stress competitive careers like Law. I don't think Bruce is being emasculated or anything. I think the show goes out of its way to show that Bruce is actually not trying really hard on the strength stuff; Bruce is just being Bruce. He himself is a generally unassuming person. He isn't acting all that different than when he interacted with Tony - just with the added bit of that brother-sister dynamic.
I don't think you can view the character or the show through 'Hulk-tinted glasses', per se. The struggle for Bruce is between his normal self and the out-of-control Hulk self. That's NOT Jen's struggle. Her struggle is between the normal life she wants and the life that finds her because she's a powered individual. It's the contrast between the mundane and the strangeness of the superhero life.
I think that if you really want to find the core critique you could level at the show, you could say its that the show doesn't quite convey that it's intentionally a bit of satire, a bit of deconstruction, and that it doesn't tackle the baggage of Bruce Banner's Hulk because that's not the point of the show.
No, it's not how it's like to be a woman. You're gonna be murdered? Wtf? No. It's called disney pushing a political agenda. She hulk had potential but all disney cares about is politics and crapping on a male character's legacy.
@@Anonymous2.2 1) Women _have_ gotten murdered (and worse) for pissing off the wrong guy. Does it happen very often? No. But more than most people realize. And you can never quite tell which man is the psycho, so you have to be wary most of the time. That's a reality of being a woman in the world. 2) There's nothing here that craps on anyone's legacy. Hulk is still demonstrably stronger (literally - they demonstrate it in the episode). He still has the same themes and challenges. He as a character and his story as an on-going narrative are strong enough to take a little teasing and some deconstruction. 3) Almost of of this story comes from Marvel comics, not Disney, and is from far before Disney owned Marvel. 4) Disney is a corporation - their agenda is to make money first and foremost. 5) I'm sorry that your sensibilities are so delicate that this sort of thing bothers you so much.
@@veronicahamilton3174 1. Ok. And does that not happen to men? I mean it literally happened in she hulk lmao. But in all seriousness, why tf are you using that as a talking point if it rarely happens?
2. I guess legacy isn't the right word but they're talked down to.
3. Yeah because disney can't make anything original that's good. But they still shove their agenda in their.
4. Yes I know that's why the quality sucks
5. Yeah disney shoving a poltical agenda based on lies down my throat does bother me. Tell me, are you ok with them putting a scene talking about periods in a children's show so they can put a trans person in their? Does that seem ok to you? There's also countless other evil things they've done.
@@Anonymous2.2 Fine, I'll bite.
1. There's a reason why women are much less safe travelling alone at night than men are. That's because there are a lot more men willing to take advantage of a woman than there are men willing do the same of other men. The situation isn't remotely the same. And while it's not likely, it still happens to women more than men by orders of magnitude more. Thing is, I'm pretty sure you know this. I bet you know instinctively that someone's sister is a lot less safe out there than someone's brother. But you choose to ignore that because you are trying to make a point about a tv show that hurt your feelings because it dared call it out.
2. Who is being talked down to? Pointing out that Bruce is projecting his experiences and problems on Jen isn't talking down to Bruce, or you, or men. Being called on your shit may brush your ego, but it isn't being talked down to.
3. Disney's agenda is to make money, which is why they generally let Kevin Feige do whatever he wants with the MCU. You can't place 'blame' for originating the themes or content of the show when they are pulling it from the source content Marvel made. Maybe you should aim your grudge at the original writers of She-Hulk? But then, I don't think your actual goal is culpability, but rather looking for a reason to lash out at people you already don't like.
4. The 'quality sucks' is arguable. But once again, the things you seem to have an issue with were there in the original content.
5. Disney is shoving a lot less political agenda down my throat than the US Congress and the majority of self-righteous jerks in state legislatures. Maybe you just aren't used to being spoon fed things and that's made your tummy a little too tender to deal with anything you might feel is unpleasant.
And... does it bother me that periods are brought up in children's shows? No. Menstration _exists_. It's a real thing that real people have to deal with and teaching children about real things so that they can reasonably handle it is a good thing.
And does it bother me that there might be a trans person 'in there'? No. Trans people also exist. They are real people. I know a lot of trans people who are terrific people, good parents, and valuable parts of their community. What's so scary about that?
It sounds lot a lot of these things you are calling 'evil' and 'forced down your throat' are just really about things that make you feel icky and uncomfortable. Have you considered just developing a bit more strength of character?
I never thought that they emasculated Bruce as the Hulk in this episode. I think that in every physical aspect Bruce's Hulk is way stronger than Jen's, the balance and flexibility being the only thing that Jen seemed better at. Sure she picks things up quicker but I think that was just because they didn't want to have years and different movies to bring the character up to Bruce's level. But his clap was a way more powerful version than Jen's she just used it differently as a sonic thing. But I didn't see Bruce as being brought down to make Jen stronger, I just think they quickened the progression of Jen in order to get to the storylines they wanted to show in the movie which kinda makes her seem too powerful out of the gate. So far I really enjoy this show.
but as a comedy it 100% fails completely.
@@sandraday6955 not 100% cuz I watched a couple of reactors that’s not that into comics and they loved it I’d say 65%
If you are looking for dark and gritty stuff, this show won't be that
It's going to be half hour lawyer-y and comedy show
Yeah honestly until secret invasion none of these shows are gonna be dark or anything
@@Rushking20 yeah,
I watched their ms marvel reactions and after every episode they were saying that it's a kids show and not dark and stuff and pointing out stuff instead of enjoying for what the show is, so i commented on the 1st episode of She-Hulk that it won't be what they like, usually I don't comment on stuff.
@@rohit7patil The partition episodes of Ms. Marvel were pretty dark for the supposedly lighter tone first introduced in episode 1. And the great-grandmother Aisha getting murdered by Najma is certainly not something one would expect to find in a simple kids' show. I agree they spent a lot of time, maybe too much time, worrying about what age group the show was aimed at. I mean, come on, Holden's favourite comic book character is Spider-Man which is definitely one of the most kid-oriented franchises around. Yet he doesn't preface every Spider-Man reaction with as disclaimer that the movie/show is not aimed at his age group.
"comedy"
@@rohit7patil Not everyone has to enjoy the same things you watch
Jen Walters never said that men could never understand what it's like to have to control their anger or whatever. She just said that she knows how to control herself because of her own personal experiences that she has lived through her whole life, just like how Bruce had to, just in a different way. That's not the same as her saying she's better or anything, she's just saying that Bruce is trying to project his own experiences onto her when she isn't going through the same thing as he did. They're different paths to get to the same place.
As for "Jen's doing everything better than Hulk and is putting men down", that's also inaccurate. She was barely able to go toe-to-toe with Hulk in her fight against him. She got a few good hits in, but that isn't putting Hulk down or lowering his level at all. It's just that she's in control and aware, not replaced by an alter ego, when she's transformed, so that she can actually learn and mentally digest the information that Bruce gave her while training, so she was able to get a handle on things faster. Had Bruce not had to go through struggling with "another guy for 10 years", and had someone to train HIM, it would've been the same.
Don't view it as them trying to put Bruce Banner down, just view it like Jen's on a different journey than Bruce.
Also, She-Hulk is a character that existed since 1980. The station that made the Lou Hulk series wanted to make a female Hulk, so Marvel quickly wrote a She-Hulk comic before the program could in order to retain the rights to the concept of a female Hulk. She's been a consistent character in Marvel comics since then, and has had a habit of breaking the 4th wall since the 80's, before Deadpool even existed.
Holden sounds a little sensitive about this too. He watched Hulk one-shot Jen through the air with a single thunderclap and then it took her applauding just to disorient him and he called that her being better at it? He also saw Hulk launch a boulder into the stratosphere. Hulk is shown being stronger/more experienced and Jen is more adaptable/agile.
Fantastic comment.
"I'm doing this infinitally more than you"
Yup she never said that.
@@kolo5141 Why don't you post the full quote, hm? Why do you stick on just that one sentence, instead of the full thing?
@@haabat1342 Troll.
"Hope it's not jokey" sorry to tell you but She-Hulk has been the funny 4th wall breaker since before Deadpool existed
Not better different. For example with the thunderclap while Bruce does one heavy one she does many small ones it's her character. She shows off and gets more confident with her hulk while Bruce tries to hide his since he is all rage
But that's how she is in the comics - she always had more control.
That's literally the character from the comics on the screen it is what it is. She's had her "savage" moments in the comics too but she's always been a more comedic totally different character than Bruce
And also about every single "she's better" or "it's because she's a woman" thing Holden is complaining about is from the comics, too. Jen started out in control, started out without rage issues and was a comedy with a lot of fourth wall breaking and commentary on being a tall single lady lawyer who is tall, hot, green and single. She-Hulk did "they leaked my nudes" as a plot point before mobile phones were a thing. None of that is an MCU thing or coming from Disney.
She-Hulk has a 40-year history. How she's depicted in the TV series is the same as it has been in the comics for almost a half century. Each of the "gamma mutates" (as they're sometimes referred to collectively) manifested a different kind of change. Even in the Incredible Hulk movie, Emil Blonsky's Abomination was different than the Hulk. Blonsky held onto his intelligence and personality after he transformed. At the end of that movie, the scientist Samuel Sterns was shown beginning to transform into the Leader, who gained super-intelligence rather than super-strength.
Even if you ignore the comics, Bruce's abuse/DID (which we havn't seen in the MCU) and the show's "emotion" logic; it might be helpful to simply look at Jen as a 'diluted' version of Hulk. His blood has 'diluted' the original serum, been hit multiple times with various types of radiation (including the Snap) and she barely got any dosage. So she keeps her personality, and other benefits, without the side effects.
IIRC, Bruce's transformation and powers are "driven by rage" to quote the old TV series, but Jen's were supposedly driven by her own lack of self-confidence and self-esteem- transformations driven by adrenaline, yes- but also the nervousness and adrenaline of feeling awkward and socially inept. She was supposed to be a great lawyer but in her personal life very quiet, kind of mousy and a wallflower. Therefore instead of an out of control creature of rage, *her* Hulk is poised, attractive, strong of course, but actually *more* in control than her human form. They derive from different aspects of the personality. She's a healthier person overall as the Hulk, so she stays that way most of the time in the comic.
MCU no, but there is a Hulk movie from 2003 (called Hulk) that shows that abuse... his father used him as an experiment and he also saw his father kill his mother at a young age.
Imagine telling Bruce Banner that you have infinitely more experience in controlling your anger than him.
Did holden ever remember Bruce is always holding back his strength as smart hulk. Like in the scene that show him toss a boulder and she out does him and he proves to her how much he has to control himself by launching an even bigger Boulder into space.
Perspective is interesting. Hearing Holden talk about Thor 4 makes me think he/you watched a totally different movie than the one where Thor levels up to Odin, is so powerful that he accidentally enchants Mjolnir to imbue his power into Jane and talks the bad guy into doing the right thing since he can't overpower him. As for this show, it's pitched as a 30-minute legal comedy so hopefully there will be more. My understanding of the comic character is that she is a satirical character who broke the 4th wall before Daredevil was created.
The last scene is weird because apparently, most of episode 1 was originally episode 8 and was edited with the beginning of the original 1st episode to make this. The last scene is weirdly edited to me but the rest of the show is amazing. The Bruce/Jen chemistry is awesome.
Without spoiling the mid-credit scenes, I think there's one every episode and they seem to be used differently. Instead of teasers for the future, they seem to be punchlines that each episode is subtly building up to.
did you mean before Deadpool was created instead of Daredevil?
As a person Jen is already much more in control of her body than Bruce ever was, i.e. self defense classes, yoga, etc.
Yeah, a scientist that gains super strength (and also only his only toddler-like alter ego has access to it) would be handling it in a very different way.
This is comic accurate. She will ALWAYS have 100% control because unlike Bruce she doesn't have DID- there is no 2nd personality.
She-Hulk is overall supposed to be a comedy. She breaks the 4th wall all the time and she did it years before Deadpool.
Her hair looks exactly as it does in the comics.
On her best day she's not stronger than the Hulk, mostly because she's different. The Hulk has potentially limitless strength depending on the level of his rage.
This is the "Ally McBeal" clone of the MCU.
One of the key differences between Bruce and Jennifer is that Bruce has elements of Dissociative Identity Disorder - which is why at first he couldn't remember what he did as the Hulk because The Hulk is an alter - whereas Jennifer Walters is just Jennifer Walters. I know it seems like they're minimizing Bruce's experience and his 15 years of trauma and making Jennifer Walters seem like a Mary Sue, but being a trial lawyer she would have to learn VERY QUICKLY to bottle her emotions.
As for HOW she got to be She-Hulk, the inhibitor that Bruce wore was part of his therapy and part of his personality integration, so he CAN be injured (both as Bruce and Hulk - his right arm in Endgame, etc) and open wound to open wound transmission of Hulk blood makes sense in this context. In the COMICS, it was a blood transfusion - here it's a car accident.
When it comes to fourth wall breaks, that was something intentional - she most famously did it on the cover of "Sensational She-Hulk #1" (released May 1989) where she threatens to come to the reader's house and rip up their X-Men comics. Deadpool didn't appear until "New Mutants #98" (released February 1991).
Not sure if you noticed, but the vehicle seems like it was actually custom made for someone as big as the Hulk to use. Hence, Walters having to use a phone book to reach. Also, since we had Smart Hulk instead of the OG raging Hulk, he was taking it easy on his cousin trying not to actually hurt her. I wouldn’t expect him or anyone to go full on rage mode when it’s just a simple family squabbling.
Holden you guys need to either watch some She-Hulk shows or read some of the comics. She was always able to control the transformation from the beginning and she never had the double personality as Hulk does. She is not as strong as Hulk in the comics but can hold her own with him. She took on the world-breaking Hulk and had to calm him down many times through the years. But she was never better than Hulk and had to learn her capabilities but such she kept her mind she was able to control them better than the Hulk, the big difference between her and Hulk is she does not get strong with anger but she has the ability to absorb more gamma radiation for short periods of bursts to become stronger.
Also fyi she wasn't better then him at the thunderclap she just did it more rapidly and not as strong as he did cuz it was her first time trying that
His thunderclap was more powerful and controlled while hers was more random in power and more destructive to the surrounding area (notice when he did it the Jeep behind Jen was perfectly intact)
I disagree with Bruce being looked at as lesser. A lot of the Hulk is about hidden trauma and Bruce always fought back against his past traumas instead of taking it on. It took him a long time to accept it and bond with that other persona. Jennifer is more in tune with herself and issues, from the get go in the comics she’s shown to have more control of that persona. It’s the same for Amadeus Cho, who was a version of a Hulk as well. It changes depending on the person and their mental state. I think a lot of people always overlook this.
I dont think Jen is gonna enjoy this show as much as the other stuff lol. This show is definitely meant to be more comedic than the rest
Yeah She-Hulk was one of the very first Marvel Super Heroes to break the 4th wall, decades before Deadpool
She also has been able to control herself since pretty much immediately, but in the comics it's because the Gamma infection is dilluted.
She had an accident and Bruce was the only available compatible donnor on short notice, so he gave his blood not knowing what it would do, so she turned into a savage She-Hulk but regained her sanity shortly after since the Gamma radiation wasn't as concentraed (She actually loses her control when exposed to higher levels of Gamma Radiation)
1:34 Well She-Hulk was canon to the comics back in 1985 so it is not new idea.
im so happy yall are back omgggg
Jen can do most of what the Hulk can do, just scaled down. Pros are that she’s smaller and much nimbler and quicker than than her cousin. In the comics she also got her powers from Bruce’s blood through a blood transfusion. Also fourth wall breaking was a she hulk thing before it was Deadpool’s.
She-Hulk was partially created in jest to poke fun at the sexualization of women in comics, so it's always broken the fourth wall and been more socially aware of the human nature tendencies!
the always broken the fourth wall is not true... she had nearly 10 years of comics before one of her comic series had that as a feature of the character.
I'm not sure what you're saying about Jen's Hulk being stronger than Bruce's. Clearly strength wise she's nowhere near Bruce looking at the boulder throwing scene, and as for the Hulk clapping thing, she needs to do it multiple times in a row to do anywhere near the same damage as Banner when he does it. Bruce was going easy in her and could have clapped a second time to blow her away again. The entire fight showed Bruce more annoyed than struggling in any way.
I also watched the Hulk old show and in season 2 there're some episode with her.
If you watch it. You will see that she was able to control her transformation and she could talk from the very beginning also breaking the 4th wall
In the comics too. She Hulk breaks the fourth wall before Deadpool is even introduced.
She’s not better she’s just different. Jennifer didn’t say Bruce would never understand she’s just saying hey I can control my anger I’ve been doing it for a very long time and from the reactors I’ve seen the women they seem to agree like it is a different struggle. We don’t know how it is speaking as a man. And Bruce has DID so that’s why it was harder for him but I’m sure u heard that from the comments. So far this is one of my faves it’s a fun show and she hulk in the comics is a comedic comic and it make sense to make it a comedic show. Definitely a strong opening can’t wait to see more
I read this as an article but this idea brings me joy: Technically, in the filmed MCU, Jennifer Walters isn't the first hulk. Way back in the incredible hulk, Stan Lees cameo drank some of the hulks blood - and if we're believing that stan Lees cameos are all the same character - it means he survived the gamma radiation, and the idea of him running around off screen as a hulk really brings me joy.
In she-hulk they explain that their family have something special that save them from gamma radiation and create a Hulk
So Stan Lee isn't a hulk
They also said there's a chance someone else might have the ability which is why they destroyed the extra blood.
Wouldn't he have to be a relative of bruce for it to work
Nah he got sick that's it
Umm.. this is not true. Nobody believe this. Because both Fiege and Stan lee said his cameos were not the same character
Its good to note that She-Hulk actually broke the fourth wall long before Deadpool did in the comics!
The backstory in this episode was supposed to be episode 8 in the series, but late in production they flipped the order, so the VFX teams suddenly had way less time. So there were deliberate editing choices to help alleviate the crunch time necessary for the heavy VFX work.
I feel like one crucial aspect that a lot of people don't know is that in the comics Bruce had a very abusive childhood and developed DID, which is part of the reason why he hulks out and had to fight "the other guy" all the time. I feel like Bruce doesn't fully understand that he had DID and just assumed the hulk persona was a side effect of the gamma radiation, which is both right and wrong in some senses. It moreso gave hime a vessel to channel the anger of that other persona. This is why he was so confused when Jen could automatically control her hulk form, because she doesn't struggle with another persona. Unfortunately, the MCU hasn't delved into a lot of the deep character points of Banner, but hopefully this series will open up more of that. (Which I would be SUPER excited to see)
Also, as others have said, I feel like they are not necessarily trying to say that Jen is better than Bruce, it's just that they are better at different things, and thus they will also have entirely different struggles that they face. And I feel like they are setting it up to where Jen will realize she was wrong about some of the things she said to Bruce in regards to her already knowing exactly what she is doing. I've been fairly happy with the series so far and I'm excited to see where it goes from here
When this was first advertised my favourite criticism that I read was "Jeez Marvel is going full Woke, Stan Lee would be turning in his grave"
She-Hulk was the last character created for Marvel by Stan Lee. It was intentionally created to try and get the female demographic to read comics. The fact she retains her own mind and can change at will is all from the original comic. In the comic she was often happier to retain the She-Hulk form, she felt comfortable in the body. Due to special FX costs I doubt that will be the case here.
The 4th wall breaks made popular to film fans by Deadpool started in the comics with the second comic run of She-Hulk started by John Byrne before the Deadpool comic did it. In the comic she actually visits John Byrne in his office, will we get a visit to Marvel Studios in this series? Maybe.
This one is super true to the comics, and its a character created by Stan Lee himself, yet MCU fanboys still shit on it...amazing.
@@petrinafilip96 I think it's because she is really unlikable, snarky and has the must be better syndrome without showing any previous drama that could justify it
She-Hulk wasn't the last character Stan Lee created for Marvel. 1992's Ravage 2099 was.
@@petrinafilip96 there’s a difference between Stan creating and writing the character as opposed to how Marvel portrays her in this adaptation
She also is not better than Bruce. Her Hulk form is set and scales up only by changes to her normal human body. Bruce has no real limits of how strong he can get as his powers are linked to his mental state and emotions. Only way that She-Hulk can get stronger is to train her human form. So she is noway better than Hulk really just another version of him but weaker. Not trying to claim any Hulk is weak but she is not one of the strongest of them.
Im so excited for you guys to see more of this show!
I mean they didn't downgrade hulk for this show, they did it way back in infinity war so the movie didn't end right away. Plus I'm pretty sure they show hulk being stronger in this (Thunderclap did more damage from just 1 burst, and he threw a bolder into the stratosphere) I think that when the hulks fought ( hitting him with the truck and boxing after😅), Bruce was going easy on Jen just trying to subdue her and keep her there not actually hurt her. And he didn't wanna break his jeep so he took a dive instead of cruching the jeep😅😅
Right. Bruce was totally holding back, he does not want to hurt his family (or destroy his car lol)
Agree. The jeep thing is the only part that bothers me. Even if he "let" the jeep push him back, that jeep isn't going anywhere with him on the hood and it definitely isn't enough force to toss him back into the rocks.
@@FullMetalB It is hulks jeep, he likely modded it to handle him sitting in it. As hinted at by her moving the seat up.
The Jeep pushing the Hulk is incredibly stupid tho
@@josem7927 it's a Hulk-sized Jeep, so I think that makes a bit of a difference
How was Jen's clap better than Bruce's? He had one single clap that sent her flying. Her claps weren't strong on their own so she had to create a combo of them to push him back.
holden, i think you're looking at it wrong. they aren't making she hulk better than the hulk, they're just making her different. they showed that bruce is still stronger than her. hulks thunder clap was more powerful than hers, but hers is different and as powerful in its own way. i wouldn't say one is better than the other. they're not trying to say that men are bad, they're just trying to show that women have different experiences than men.
not sure why everyone gets this wrong. the show is clearly showing all this but people think its just "make men bad"
the show says that the reason she can control her powers better is cause she's a woman and has experienced catcalling and jerky men in her life
@@andyrobin7196 I mean there's more to it than that. And isn't anger management issues a big part of Bruce Banner's characters so jen isn't wrong about her controlling her anger better than him. He literally destroyed cities due to his issues.
@@themiIes They are going into it WANTING to see those things, because they have made up their mind before even watching it. You could already see Holden Looking for excuses before even watching.
@@andyrobin7196 and because her powers are different? She isn't as strong as Hulk (as Bruce threw the boulder into fucking SPACE and showed his thunderclap was waaaay stronger than hers), but also her transformation doesn't come with the additional personality, others in the comments have explained why. So for Bruce, his anger management is way more important, cause not only is he crap at it, him getting angry releases a monster who always destroys. Jen getting angry just means she gets stronger, so as long as she can control her anger, which she can do better than Bruce partially because of her experiences as a woman, she's right, she'll be fine. But sure, woke culture war SJW bad I guess
I like their familial bond, they act very much like siblings and genuinely care and love to give each other a hard time.
18:10 - This is one of the first times I've really seen Holden on the verge of being EXACTLY the person he was talking about when he talks about "those guys" online. They absolutely did NOT emasculate Bruce in this show. They didn't downplay his strength or his intelligence.
Scoffing at the idea of women having different life experiences - which Holden absolutely did in this video - is a really narrow, horrible view to take. I think Holden may watch this video back and realize he's sounding exactly like the "problem fans" he was talking about. But maybe he won't, which would be an incredibly sad thing to see.
Holden, I think you're better than what you put on display in this video.
well he did cut the video. he's already seen it again. i just hope he listens to all the comments and takes it to his heart.
i can't fathom the cringe when men try to slither themselves out of obvious missteps.
I don't think he's scoffing at the idea of different life experiences, but the idea that anyone would try to compare being cat called and sexualised to the trauma that Bruce has been through is absurd.
Completely agree. This was maybe the first time I haven't liked one of Holden's reactions not for a reason like they didn't like the tone of a show and I did (or vice versa), but because it seems like Holden went into this already having the mindset of "they're gonna emasculate the Hulk" or whatever
@@0saintclark0 while I can agree with you about how those 2 things can't compare trauma-wise to what Bruce went through, something I've been seeing is that people only ever talk about the 1st two things she says in that monologue (the cat-called and sexualized) and not the third thing, about how she could potentially be murdered if she doesn't keep her cool, which a lot of people (yes mainly insecure men or whatever) would say is just "woke bs" or something stupid EXCEPT THIS LITERALLY HAPPENED TO A POOR YOUNG LADY LIKE 2 DAYS AGO. A young woman called her mom to come pick her up from a club or something and was murdered by a man (while on the phone with her poor mother) before she even reached the car simply because she said no to him. While this may just be a show, THAT is the main mentality that the show is trying to get across I think, not just that Jen can do it because she's "better" and that it's "woke for woke sake" or something (which is bull), but because woman literally Do HAVE TO, learn that they need to (for the most part, not all of us of course, but most woman) control their emotions and stuff because we never know how toxic, fragile, insecure men will react if we don't. ALONG with the other things she said about how women are treated differently than men when they act angrily or aggressively or Whatever. So imho Jen saying that she is already good at controlling her emotions doesn't seem like a far-fetched thing to me. Which also goes along with what everyone else has been commenting to Holden, that it doesn't mean she can do it in a "better" way, just for different reasons that Bruce, and also that she doesn't have an alter ego like Bruce.
Holden pointing out that women can be powerful but it shouldn’t be at the expense of making men look bad, is a reasonable statement however I want to point out that the misogyny in the work place happens quite often and I think it is important that this show points these themes out. Also when both Holden and Jen point out that it’s kind of a kitschy comedy... well yes that’s the point of the show. It may have its serious moments but this show was intended to have comedy throughout.
Honestly I really like the episode and I don't think the Hulk looked weak in this episode. I think the difference between the "claps" each of them have are just different. Like, hers is sound-based and his is air-based. He throws them back and she just makes it harder for him to hear.
I actually think I know why Jen's hair changes when she does! If every part of her body gets bigger, then it stands to reason her hair does too. As Jen she's got really tight curls, but as She-Hulk her hair gets thicker and longer, and thus heavier. So the curls straighten out under their own weight, like putting a weight at the end of a spring. But even then it's not fully straight, it looks more wavy
FYI, she controls the change way way way better, but she doesn't regenerate faster, just differently, that's why it helps Bruce. That aside, she's not as strong or enduring as the Hulk. She's also a fair depiction of what the character is in the comics, 4th wall breaking included.
Comic books and indeed, fiction in general are built on co-incidence. Jen does accept his advice, she does stick around and does the training montage. Once again, her self control is from the comics. She never had the anger issues that Bruce had.
I dont think any of it was at the expense of men. She didnt say that she was superior in any way, just that anger and stress are things she deals with everywhere. I dont understand how people (men in particular) watch this episode and somehow think Jen was talking down to Bruce.
she was 100% talking down to him though? She says she manages her anger infinitely more than him because she's been catcalled, while ignoring all the trauma he's been through
@@andyrobin7196 she has spent her entire life dealing with controlling her anger and stress and frustrations. Bruce has been doing it for 15 years. So yea she's been doing it longer.
@@andyrobin7196 "she was talking down to him" I kind of agree with that statement, but she did it out of anger. I don't read it as "she ignored the trauma", she tried to explain why she thinks she can handle the anger better (she seems to be more passive-aggressive rather than smashing things).
The Hulk, who seems to be a different personality and seems to only grow on his own very brief experiences, handles it more like a toddler.
@@UncleKoolaids Bruce has been abused from early in his childhood by his dad. His mother got murdered by his father. He has been hunted by kill squads for years now, most people view him as a Monster. Being the hulk caused him to have to live secluded from society, have no real friends, except for The Avengers(and in particular Tony). He has recently dealt with the loss of a friend(Tony) and love interest(black widow). I can keep going, point is, being catcalled and mansplained to are a joke compared to what Bruce has gone through. The Hulk persona is a result of all the trauma he went through. He has to perfectly control his anger or he levels a city. Jen cant control her anger as good as she says btw, she was about to harm the dudes who did nothing else than catcall her before Bruce knocked her out.
@@UncleKoolaids you realize Bruce's anger doesn't come from Hulk? It comes from himself and his trauma at home. So no, more than 15 years.
I realized that every comment I would have made has already been made by other people, though I do want to point out that at no point did the show say that Jen is BETTER than Bruce. Jen says she is better than Bruce, however, we also see that she is very competitive with her cousin. She does not struggle with controlling her fear/anger the way that Bruce does because she does not have "another hand on the wheel," which took Bruce a decade to come to terms with. And her ability to change forms at will is the equivalent of the "I'm always angry" moment from the Avengers movie. Keep watching. I've seen the second episode (as well as some other reactors commentary) so I will just say keep watching.
The drama surrounding this show is starting to be more entertaining than the actual show lol
Ate re uploading swear this here yesterday shit said 8 minutes ago
The drama only comes from a select group of individuals but yeah
Yeah but I’m curious what Jenn & Holden will say about this
16:00 One of the first things Jennifer tell us is that this is a fun lawyer show, a sitcom.
She-Hulk always has been in control and doesn't rage out like Bruce's hulk that's been the way since the 1st comics. And she's not better at anything then the hulk did you see him toss that on boulder in orbit.
Usually, but not always.
There was a Search for She-Hulk Avengers storyline in the early 2000s where she went full Hulk rage
Holden, we don't watch these videos to hear what you think that other people might be thinking. We watch them to hear what you and Jenn think about them.
The hair when she transforms has been explained as she hulk is her perfect personification of who she wants to look like... also yeah she has had a better overall life so more in tune woth her own emotions... Bruce in the comics had a terrible father and anger issues that never got resolved.
I'm not sure Holden checks the comments but I waant to share a few of my thoughts
Non spoiler thoughts:
I love the she-hulk chracter, and the first aand so far only comic run I've ever followed on continuously is she-hulk since the Dan slott Run. she's meant to be fun, and not as troubled as bruce, and most of her comic runs have been more lighter, comedic than Hulk's. I love her design here, she acts a bit different but It's minor, e.g. Jen is supposed to be this timid, mild-mannered lawyer who never socialized much, and her She-hulk form gave her the confidence to put herself out there more (actually, I think it's more of a loss of inhibition than the acquisition of confidence). her lawyer stuff is always fun.
Possible Minor Spoilers:
The Reason why their hulk forms are different may be explored in the series. you see, Hulk forms seem to bring out a bit of regressed emotions from people, at least that's what it seemed in the comics. Bruce was abused as a child and I'm pretty sure his dad killed his mom, he haad rage inside him because of all this and imagine keeping all that bottled inside for years until he was blasted with gamma radiation. While Jennifer had a very normal childhood with loving parents, her biggest problem was that she focused too much on her studies and not enough time with other people, and that resulted to her getting more comfortable in her hulk form, more confident (and actually more promiscous, so much that she got kicked out of living at the Avengers HQ in the comics because she kept breaching the security by bringing home men (supermodels and the such) almost every night and a rumour spreading that she slept with the Juggernaut, which was untrue by the way).
In the first few issues of her comic She was more "Savage" but she began to be written more reactionary in her own book and Marvel didn't want to just retread old story concepts covered by the Hulk so first they upped her intelligence and learned how to control her transformations at will Then started to draw her more hot then brutish. In a later story she saved the day but she lost her ability to transform and was stuck as She Hulk 24-7 She was okay with it then as the characters grew to enjoy it, writer artist began crafting more off the wall adventures. Her show feels a bit like a John Byrne issue of the comic.
This show is supposed to be a half hour comedy lawyer show with The addition of superhero shit being thrown into it so I have a feeling the comedy is going to be here to stay for most of the series I think they will be a couple more serious moments but for the most part I feel it’s going to be mostly a comedy
Enjoyed the reaction! Just a heads up, every episode will have a post credit scene :)
This show is has been confirmed to be a comedy show first and foremost. I agree with Jen in that I do hope there are some serious moments in the show, which I think there will be.
Not going to expect too much though, hopefully some good laughs.
Can't wait to see the follow up reactions!
I actually understand her "tirade". It's directly tied to the bar scenario and she had been dealing with her male cousin beating her over the head with the training. (which is why i didn't like the "baseline for any woman line" that seems to have come out of nowhere considering Bruce had not really brought up anything associated to that)
And she's not particularly better at Hulk in anything. (e.g. He just lightly wrist flicks a boulder, she over hand tosses one. Both are naturally super strong, and simply throwing something isn't a skill, obviously not talking about Track and Field throwers) If anything it's overemphasizing Bruce's lack of expectations... not in a malicious way but in a brotherly way.
Bruce, especially in the Ang Lee Hulk, is a deeply traumatized individual with a terrible father. Also take into account we live in a society where men kinda repress emotions without any healthy outlets, leading to outbursts or worse. Jen for all intents and purposes grew up in a healthy environment with loving parents, great friends, and healthy outlet for all the stuff she has to deal with. Being a Hulk is just another hurdle that shes ready to jump over.
"I'm hoping for intense moments." Now that got a good laugh out of me. I suggest you familiarize yourself with what She Hulk actually is in the comics lol and it'll be easier to watch and enjoy this. Trying too hard to make it different? Nah, they are not changing anything, they are making this exactly what She Hulk is. She Hulk is extremely, extremely lighthearted, breaks the 4th wall constantly, She just doesn't deal with the extra Hulk stuff Bruce does because of scientific reasons. Jen is far weaker than Bruce, he goes easy on her and see how far he throws the Boulder compared to her. This is a legal sitcom. See it as either a breath of fresh air or second hand smoke. People like her lawyer partner or those punks are assholes. Some people are like that. Not saying all men are like that, Jesus Christ. The lesson is not to be like them and sometimes you need to ignore them and sometimes deal with them. She is talking 1 on 1 with Bruce. She has all this weight on somehow needing to be a superhero and doesn't want it at all, and being told to control her anger. Jen perceives Bruce as projecting(A weak thing that some people do), when in reality he is wise and wants her to use her advantage to everyone's benefit. She goes through things men don't and only some man understand, that doesn't mean all men are bad, and of course the irony is that despite knowing Bruce's past, she cannot even imagine the suffering and anger he's gone through. She is novice and has progression to go through. It's meant to demonstrate how naive she is.
I hope so, its just her attitude has left an understandably bad taste some people's mouths.
@@draykohunter6805 also it’s a bad lawyer show
Been waiting for you guys to watch this! And you released the video on my birthday! Boom!
Guys this is a lawyer comedy. Not an action show.
I hope y’all get into more as it gets more into it.
Also, She Hulk has always been in full control of her hulk form with her personality remaining.
They sort of billed it as a lawyer comedy, but it's clearly not going to be one. We thought we were going to get a "case of the week" type thing, but the writers have admitted they don't know how to write courtroom scenes. It's a shame IMO.
@@arubial1229 writers admitted that they can't writing an exciting single trial that lasts an entire season so you are wrong there. We are literally getting multiple trials in this season just like you want.
@@arjunts7646 I am enjoying the show as it is. I just think they have slightly misrepresented it so far. The show has "Attorney at Law" in the title and the poster shows her walking up steps to a courtroom, but the episodes are way too short to provide us with any of that so far.
@@arjunts7646 yeah apparently Megan Thee Stallion is going to be one of her clients is the newest rumor update
@@arubial1229 they have to tell her origin story and set her up as the defendant for Abomination. I imagine from now onwards, its gonna be about how she earns him the parole. Legal battle takes place outside the courtroom too so we will prolly see that too.
One thing that must be take into account is that Hulk didn't have anyone to help him with his powers, to show him a path and to train. That's another reason why seems that She Hulk got the hang of things very easy. She had the help that Bruce never got. That's actually sweet but Bruce took the wrong approach to deal with Jen like both had the same struggles. Jen/She Hulk is a completely different that Bruce/Hulk. She might not be as strong but she is more agile.
Holden probably heard the murmurs online about how "woke" and "feminist" this show and has an agenda that entering this show he has already a formed opinion. Watching the 1st episode he probably picked along the way on where the pre conceived opinions he heard and justify that notion everytime Jen Walters expressed her experience. Jen is clearly no better than Bruce physically . We all now Hulk skills set and Jen has a different set. 1st time I thumbs down a video from this channel but I respect Holden's opinions..They need to probably re-watch the 1st episode with an open mind and a little background of She Hulk to appreciate the nuances of what is a She Hulk/Jen Walters vs Bruce Banner/Hulk setting aside the Man vs Women agenda (which clearly is none). If he still has the same opinion I''ll still respect him cause that is what we all need discussing topics like this.
Honestly these past few months they’ve leaned more into that territory of whats woke and not
@@chanelle5068 yeah, i started to watch this channel more mindful because i also felt like they get more and more cynical and lean towards the whole "anti-woke" bs.
@@StrandSteifen There is no such thing as "anti-woke BS". You're pretending as if "too much wokeness" isn't a thing in this world.
@@chanelle5068 No, troglodytes have been making woke a curse word in their attempt to fight a culture war. Disney has been doing the same as they always have.
@@the_common_ground The right wing is trying desperately to brand themselves as anti woke which is the first shot. You fools think characters merely existing is some kind of attack on men.
"I hope it won't be jokey jokey" while watching a comedy...? Lol
I think it's pretty clear that Bruce is holding back during their fight so he doesn't hurt Jen. Also her claps aren't nearly as strong as his. They make it very clear that he's stronger in the Boulder scene. Also the male lawyer is a characature of misogyny. The rest of the men in the show are normal people
I like new Thor, he's not "an idiot", he's just more relaxed and less teenage angst.
It's a shame the advertising hasn't done a good job at setting the right expectations for this show but, this show is actually gonna work very different from ur other MCU shows.
Its basically a week to week esk' sitcom. So something between the office and Loki. There is a story going through the season, but it wont be as dramatic as ur other shows. This really is gonna be a hulk trying to live her life as a lawyer.
When it comes to she hulk managing her powers early, I think it actually has to do with "getting it out of the way". I dont think the writers wanted Jen's struggles with her powers to be the origin story of the show, but her journey figuring out how she can maintain her life as a hulk, and figuring out she probably does need to become a superhero/lawyer ultimately. I also doubt she wont have any problems with her powers at all btw. I have to agree that Jen is set up as overly confident, thinking she's on top of everything, when she really isnt.
Great reaction as all ways!
Her origin story very closely parallels that in the comic. This whole idea of being sensitive towards men's feelings, I mean come on. This is not portraying men as these terrible horrible weak creatures...that's a little bit of an exaggeration. "Emasculated"? Give me a break, dude.
She's *supposed* to be different. It's the character.
The clapping? She doesn't overpower him, at all. She has to do it many times to have a fraction of the effect. In fact, he makes a little bit of a point to show that that's not the case. As for the tone of the show, it's very true to the comic, which is a little more comedic in tone. She was the first Marvel character to break the fourth wall - before Deadpool. As for a woman counterpart having some strengths that the male counterpart, that doesn't take anything away from the male version. There's no zero-sum situation for superpowers, lol.
they changed her origin so that it wouldnt be about a man giving her powers, the same reason they changed captain marvel's origin
@@andyrobin7196 I would think they changed her origin because Bruce wouldn't want to "curse" anyone else with hulkness? You saw that he destroyed her blood after he tested it.
@@andyrobin7196 pretty sure they altered it because why would bruce have a blood transfusion kit ready on the go and I doubt he would want to give his hulkness that he views a curse to his cousin. This origin in the show does the job and gets right to the point without spending the whole episode on another origin story. When it comes to writing a mini series they have to make cuts and adjustments.
Every single male character in episode one is an asshole, weak or a predator.
@@andyrobin7196 In the MCU he already knows his blood is toxic, where in the comics he gives her a transfusion and *doesn't* know. Continuity is a thing.
She-Hulk is a fan favorite of mine ever since I seen her in the 90s hulk cartoon, and even though people are saying she’s not like her comic counterpart, it’s as accurate as it can be with tweaks to make it fit into the mcu
Well there were a couple moments where she actually was more primal. Like in the bar just after and In the sawblade room. They didn't last long, but they were there, imo.
1. Stan Lee turned into a hulk after taking a sip of soda in the Incredible Hulk. That’s why Bruce is so protective of his blood samples.
2. Bruce is ashamed of the savage side of his hulk form and he’s letting his mind hold him back. You see that when they travel back to 2012 and he’s embarrassed to smash things.
3. The hair is a well know thing in the comics. Hulks hair changes considerably depending on the version he turns into. The Gamma powered hero Doc Samson has his power centralized in his green hair. The longer it gets the stronger he becomes but the harder it is to control his emotions so he needs to cut it to regain control and lose his powers like the biblical namesake.
4. Read some of the original comic book. It was a mostly comedic book that broke the fourth wall and pointed out all the weird and hard to believe things in the marvel universe while Jen has conversations with the Artist of the comic and the audience reading.
4. I think this shows going to win a lot of people over once they have time to explain more things. The first episode is very rushed for the sake of not wasting time.