Upgrading a sub-panel for new A/C equipment | 30-circuit MLO panel installation
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 เม.ย. 2024
- In this video I'll show you how I upgraded an existing sub-panel from 8-circuit to 30-circuit and why the A/C condensing unit should be derived from the main breaker panel. Thanks for watching this video. Please leave questions you may have in the comments section below.
Electrical Wiring is NOT a hobby. Call a licensed electrician!
Classic Electric, LLC | Point Pleasant, New Jersey
License & Business Permit # 16557
(732)-770-1437
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Ron Pecina Jr. is a licensed electrician in the state of New Jersey since 2009.
This allows him to apply for electrical permits, work with live conductors, remove meters, and disconnect service from the utility company.
New Jersey observes the 2020 NEC and the Uniform Construction Code.
The majority of the work you’ll see on my channel falls under the New Jersey Rehabilitation Sub Code (Chapter 6 of the U.C.C.) www.nj.gov/dca/divisions/code...
* ALL New Jersey licensed electricians MUST complete 34-hours of continuing education units each tricentennial period.
* This includes a mandatory 9-hour code update course and (1) hour business law class.
* Any work above 10-volts requires an electrical license in New Jersey.
*
Become an NJ-IEC member here: www.nj-iec.org
Ron is an active member of the New Jersey Independent Electrical Contractors Association.
Contact: newjersey@ieci.org (732)-276-2295
Since 2023, Ron has been an apprenticeship instructor at the NJ-IEC Education and Training Center, Somerset, NJ.
IEC National: www.ieci.org
Customer Guide for Electrical Installation; JCPL: www.firstenergycorp.com/conte...
Customer Guide for Electrical Installation; PSEG: nj.pseg.com/businessandcontra...
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I used your videos heavily when doing my own service upgrade, including going from overhead to underground, in GA (homeowners permit). The little stuff like how you drilled holes through siding was invaluable to me. All the other channels just cover code, not much practical installation like you. Passed inspection of course. The guy never even removed the panel covers!! Sad, I wanted to show off the workmanship you taught me. Thank you, saved me 8K.
Wow! If service laterals and service upgrades go for $8k in Georgia I might have to think about getting may license in Georgia!
@@electricalron I got two quotes. One was 12K and one was 15K. I spent about 3-4K in materials and brand tools (like Milwaukee torque wrench, Fluke 375FC) to do it all myself. Leviton subpanel with Dual function gen2 wireless breakers. QO meter main combo. Utility company did the underground to the meter for free. The quotes I got did NOT specify equipment so you can imagine what their margins would be.
@@electricalron but people must be paying it if that’s what they are quoting.
@@Braindead154 what’s the distance from the utility transformer to the service point?
@@electricalron think it was 50 feet from pole to meter. Utility initially wanted $1300 then said they would do it for free.
Thanks for all your videos Ron. I'm just a regular homeowner but I learned a ton about how the electrical system in my house works from watching your videos. I still have plenty of respect for the electrical system but it is no longer a scary magical part of my house. I wouldn't ever consider doing my own service upgrade of course but I think you've taught me enough that I'll know what I'm talking about if I ever need to bring in an electrician to do electrical work.
Absolutely. I'm glad you liked the videos.
As an apprentice, I really appreciate your videos! Thank you so much!
That makes me happy. I hope they are helping you understand this trade a little better.
Love the channel. As a hvac tech (and licensed electrician) I wanted to say that 99.5 of air handlers are 240v around here in upstate ny
All I’ve put in over the past 20 years are Siemens Load centers, in my opinion are the best.
thanks for the video! Keep on grinding bro!
Very Great job Electrician Ron.
Great Video. Thank you for sharing
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
My pleasure!
Great video Ron!! Good work as usual!!
I appreciate you too!
Man, that’s a nice panel with the copper buss 👍👍
Nice job, Ron. Thanks for the video. I'm looking forward to Part 2
thanks for watching the video!
Thanks for posting this. Great channel, I just subscribed. It’s nice to see a true pro that takes pride in their work.
Mr Ron your my instructor! Your the boss
Ron, as always great video and content. Best regards from Chicago.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Good job Ron.
Thank your brother!
It's the brotherhood of electrician's is what makes the electrician's work harder and better .👍✌
Always good to see a master trades-person demonstrate his/her expertise. A quick question, do the service wire lugs need torquing or do you just tighten by experience? Always educational to watch your videos and I look forward to watching more of them.
Definitely by feel.
As an apprentice in this trade I learn a ton from your videos. Hope to be as good as you one day, sir.
Kind words. Thanks!
You are so right they are some what behind the time i heard the same thing
Yo Ron, I can’t remember what video it was about the goof ring. I changed the old recess lights with new LED ones. Those goof ring was a life saver that I never knew existed. Thank you
Beautiful! I just did a bunch at the Point Pleasant Beach house on the porch with vinyl siding ceiling on a porch. They look GREAT IMO!!!
Great job as always.On the subject of gfci protecting 240v condensing units,at this point you might as well gfci protect the entire panel.IE,make a gfci main breaker.They have been doing it in Europe for years now.I feel like here in north america we are always behind for some reason.Looking forward to another video.
So would you want your whole house to be “in the tripped position” because one appliance, lamp, or air conditioner had a little current leakage? A GFCI protected main is an awful idea, in my opinion.
@electricalron I agree with u 100%.but I'm looking at it from a cost perspective also.instead of having for example 5,8,or 10 gfci breakers in your panel,it would be a lot more cost effective to just have one which would *protect* your entire house.
@@pawelelektryk2985 Right, but when one thing causes the GFCI to trip your whole house would shut off.
Thanks.
Nice job Ron wish you were in East Tennessee
Great job Ron. I’ve always went with the copper buss bars. Not a fan at all with the arc-fault breaker requirements as far as outside condensers etc going forward.
Thank you glad you liked the video!
The issue with leakage is an industry wide problem with kitchen appliances. Ive dealt with it with refrigerators, electric ranges and countertop small appliances.
More problems with arc-fault protection than GFCI protection in my experience.
Hope school is going well professor and the worthy student find a master to apprentice for.
Last week of school next week.
If you can’t find the nameplate on these Air Handlers here’s a rule of thumb:
On the AH there should be breakers installed already and they pretty much tell you te rating of the heat strips
2 sets of 2 pole 60 amp OCD = 20KW
1 set OCD 2pole 30 and 1 set OCD 2 pole 60 = 15KW
2 sets of 30 2 pole OCD = 10KW
1 set of 2 pole 30 OCD = 5KW
You can use your amprobe to double check.
Normally nameplate should be inside the cover next to the heat strip but they’re hard go find.
Very little electric heat around here. Natural gas is our thing.
Motors and compressors are unique when it comes to elextrical. Its hard to put them into a table for techs and sparkies to understand. Heck, even inspectors too. I was cert both HVAC and electria l resi and commercial. It was nice to service the equipment to the meter. Yeah, heard about that conpany holding up the works. Also heard the 2025 NEC change for GFCI on HVAC was due to a kid touchibg a faulty condenser unit, sadly it was a lost of life. A soft start kit will help for future gen use and move the breaker to the sub box. Nice work as always Ron. Stay safe out there. 😊
Like they say, the NEC is written in blood!
@@Braindead154The problem is that the unit that killed someone wasn't properly grounded. How is requiring GFCI protection going to solve poor workmanship? The same hack that didn't ground the first unit certainly won't install a GFCI for the next. It's really a money grab by manufacturers on the code making panels.
@@edisont.picard4112Maybe if the manufacturers integrated GFCI protection into their units. Then the hack handyman can’t screw it up.
@@electricalron Or, we could go like how Europe does it and have a GFCI (they call it residual current detector) at the main breaker. I think they allow something like 30mA instead of our 5mA, which might hurt more, but still won't kill you. Would be cheaper than having (almost) every breaker needing its own.
Looks great. Gravy little sub panel replacement. Bet the air handler is gonna be the hardest part of the job, if its up in an attic or something. I get into arguments with guys at work all the time about sizing circuit conductors and OCPDs for A/C units. Surprisingly lots of guys in the field with lots of experience dont know how to do it
That's unfortunately very true. NEC Article 440.6(A) says all you need to size branch circuit wiring, overcurrent protection, and disconnect size/ style (fused, or non-fused).
@@electricalronNEC, what's that? I'm not gonna buy a code book, they're like $70. You know how many packs of smokes and 6 packs I could buy with that money? Lol
It’s somewhat understandable because it’s maybe the only time your wire can be undersized for the OCPD.
@@Braindead154 Well, motors too but I dont too many jobs wiring motors.
@@YaksAttack Also, for only $10/ month you can have full access to the NEC online at link.nfpa.org
What size cable was used to supply this panel and the breaker size. Curious.
If they had a "soft start" added to their condenser would it not draw much less power to start the inductive load? If that is true could you have put that circuit in the sub panel or would it still be drawing to much power?
The panel looks really clean. I from Wisconsin I graduate electrical school .May now apprenticeship in residential electrician 3 years journeyman license how long to be a master electrician your opinion
There’s a lot to learn.
So,, since the code will eventually require arc fault breakers for air handler-will you install an arc fault breaker for the future air handler?
No way. Not required. I can ask the customer but I wouldn't try to sell them something they wouldn't need.
Hey Ron I have a question for you what is your opinion on tool belts? Do you wear one or do you just use a tool bag. Everyone I wear I hate and I’m having a difficult time finding a tool organization system that works good for me. I love your videos and you are great at what you do. I would love to hear back from you. I would really value your opinion.
Thank You,
Tommy from Long Island, NY
Hey Tommy, thanks for your kind words. Try searching for Atlas 46.com. Its all made in America gear and I have purchased a bunch of stuff from them in the past year. LMK how you make out. I would suggest the padded suspenders, rigid tool belt, main tool attachment, and the screws and nails attachment.
Any particular reason you went with that PN panel and not aluminum buss? Is that house near the saltwater ? Just curious.
I matched the new panel with the existing circuit breakers from the last panel. This saved money for the homeowner because I didn't need to buy expensive AFCI/ GFCI breakers.
Out of curiosity.. how long did it take you to complete this job? Hours?
Dang Ron, who put that dent on your right-side cargo door?
December 1984
Most Hvacs don’t have neutrals as you are aware. afci wouldn’t work- at least for Eaton (mine) need neutral wires. All My breakers are gfci/afci, except hvac, as no hvac system commonly used have the neutral. Take a neutral off a breaker of lights and it won’t work until that neutral is plugged in TO MONITOR THE BALANCE.
As you being a TH-cam teacher, how are you torquing those breakers with that Milwaukee drill (considering everything of a panel has torque specs/requirements) ? lol
huh?
I’m an HVACR tech and first I’m hearing of this. Is that holdup company started by a guy named Willis?? Lol
NEC Article 440.6(A) requires that branch circuits and overcurrent protection be sized based on the nameplate data. minimum circuit unit ampacity, max OCPD.
I see you trying to carry her! I have two 4 year old units. X-13 blower motor went out on the first one at 1.5 years. I put a rescue in that one. Had a 1/12 HP condenser fan motor go out on the second unit a couple weeks ago. Nobody local had that in stock. Cap was bad also. Not sure what took what out first.
@@scotts4125consider a Zebra or Diversified Tech surge protector. I go back with Regal Rexnard Evergreen VS motors as replacements at a fraction of the cost when the warranty has expired.
It’s crazy how one company can literally stop potentially life saving code from being passed.
Interesting that the HVAC company did not have their own electrician...Might want to go back after they are done with the install and make sure they did not do some shade tree electrical hacks on your work.
I'm going back to connect the equipment once its in place in a week or two.
Do you really want a fridge on GFCI there notorious for tripping
If it’s required by the code than it gets done that way.
Every AC manufacturer is fighting it due to inverted high efficiency units electronics causing a current imbalance. This new rule was due to a child climbing over a fence touching a condenser that was not grounded and he unfortunately died. The NEC should require the units not to operate if not properly grounded or some type of visual like an indicator light when not grounded. A GFCI would have saved this kids life so would have the current code of having a low impedance fault current path so breakers trip. Unfortunately you are still going to have fly by night contractor’s skating the rules and not pulling permits. Any large inductive load no matter the manufacturer can cause a current imbalance when starting this will cause nuisance GFCI trips. I understand the code panel wanting to keep people safe the current code accomplishes that when properly followed.
Thats a shame about them kid dying because of objectionable current flow on the frame of the condensing unit. It makes me mad that it could have been avoided had a qualified electrician done the work.
I hate that they are requiring everything to be on gfis. I have a feeling the reason why is because someone is getting paid well for new codes
Do you understand how a GFCI works?