Does The Pimsleur Method Really Work? Plus: How To Optimize It For Memory Palace Success
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- A lot of people disagree about whether or not the Pimsleur Method works for language learning.
It's really not the right question.
So in this video, we're looking at how to use Paul Pimsleur's recordings and his lesser-known books in combination with the Memory Palace technique.
And you'll discover how to combine it with The Big Five of Language Learning which you can learn more about in Language of Memory Live:
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If you enjoyed this video on memory training and mnemonic memory techniques, please help others by adding some captions.
For an even more high-powered version of the spaced-repetition principle at the core of the Pimsleur Method, check out my video on strategic patterns for high-powered recall next: th-cam.com/video/ROCC8iJKxYw/w-d-xo.html
Thank you, I am glad that I found your channel ❤️
Thanks. I’ve tried pimsleur for Japanese, Spanish, and Hebrew and don’t regret it. Back in the day I fell into the marketing thinking I’d master the language lol. But today I’d use pimsleur again as a simple method to “get my toes wet” in a new language. The constant repetition helps cement some reflexes early on about the structure of the language and gain familiarity with how it sounds.
Thanks so much for sharing your experience. The pattern recognition of sounds is indeed a core benefit - the only catch being regional dialects and even inner-city dialects.
I use Pimsleur for Spanish, French and German. It works and helped me become fluent in all 3 languages.
That’s great!
Fr?
How many months? And how many hours a day?
@@abolajioyesanya4442 The op stated it helped him become fluent in three languages. Not that he became fluent just with Pimsleur.
Each individual varies in time and how many times it takes them to use the program.
Myself took about three months just to finish one level. Definitely not one level in one month. I listened to a lesson about three- five times.
Hi. I've been using Pimsleur and it is very true that sometimes the answer that the other person gives you in real life is different from what's in the recording. I've noticed it myself. However, because you know one version of the answer already, you can recognize a few words and structures and can get the gist of what they are saying, as opposed to going in blind. It feels like you're a kindergarten kid in school and hear the teacher say stuff you've not heard at home but since her sentences are interspersed with words and phrases you do know, you can more or less figure out what she is saying and at the same time learn a few new words. That's my two cents
Thanks so much for this! :-)
Love the opening. Making things fun helps so much.
It really does!
Thanks for another insightful video, I can tell you’ve put a lot of effort into it. I wrote a couple brief responses to some points you mentioned as I know it helps with the algorithm and they’re my genuine thoughts.
I’ve studied a decent number of languages and speak a few conversationally with German being my strongest. Like many I’ve used an array of resources, Pimsleur being one of them. They do a decent job to help you get your foot in the door for really any language, though it’s certainly not a one-stop-shop (as people often mistakenly think about any resource).
I think I see your argument, and correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s that using these memory techniques enables you to not only learn the phrases from Pimsleur but also to encode new phrases and words on the fly- in order to become a more effective learner.
One of my techniques that I think is often overlooked is physical note taking, and I don’t mean writing an essay for each new entry. Just that I keep a small notepad in my back pocket when traveling and I write down phrases or words (in context).
I got to C1 in German a couple years back and I’ve since been branching out into dialects of it to enrich my knowledge. The regional pronunciation you heard in Berlin, sounds like, well, Berlinerisch. To my ears, the dialect sounds an awful lot like Dutch.
I know you mentioned it to illustrate that a hyper-fixation on elocution is not always the best use of one’s time, all the same perhaps you might find it interesting.
Thanks so much for this and great thoughts.
Getting to C1 is huge - congrats! Is the distance between B2 and C1 as big as it is between B1 and B2?
In terms of your question, yes, you can memorize in real time. I haven't done it for German in quite some time, but I do it now with Mandarin a lot and used to do it in German, especially while I lived there.
I feel that anyone who puts in enough practice with memory techniques should be able to do this, but each person needs their own level of study and practice with the techniques, and I don't know that exactly how much is predictable.
That's one reason why I don't think we have memory (yet) as a formal skill that is taught in official programs with levels like A1, etc. There doesn't seem to be the same kind of basically predictable outcome, partly due to the fact that people can acquire certain degrees of a language without the same kind of personal volition memory techniques seems to require.
Great point about physical note taking. Writing on top of that is key, literally producing what you've learned from memory and encoding it on the page through the hand. This is generally considered haptic memory and is one of the least used techniques I've seen, though I talk about using a memory journal/notebook as much as I possibly can.
It's such a game changer, and I expect the reason some people don't use it is because it's quite confronting. Even today, I have some Latin to recall from yesterday and I have to be willing to face the fact that I might not have succeeded when I put pen to paper. If I don't, this means I need to look at why my associations weren't strong enough to bring back the target information.
Going through the process itself is very valuable in memory formation, but it can be frustrating for many people, leading to premature quitting, or dabbling.
Regarding elocution, I do find it a bit of a problematic game, but it's almost more of a timing thing. Generally, I find that it's best if I work on pronunciation after I've accurately memorized what I'm trying to pronounce. For others, working on pronunciation can itself be mnemonic to varying degrees.
So the thing that frustrates some if freeing for others: explore and experiment, ideally with as much information about the options as possible. And never assume that what didn't work on Tuesday, won't work on Wednesday. It just might, and all the more so when you bring some consistent practice to the game.
Thanks again for your great post and talk soon!
I used Pimsleur and Michel Thomas spanish before my travel to Peru and I was able to recognize speech and several words related to my role as a tourist. I don't regret since both methods were proved their utility to me. Pimsleur for unlocking my hearing and speech and Michel Thomas for giving me a grasp of how grammar works in Spanish. I recomend using both.
🙏
I used the full pimsleur programs for Spanish and Chinese. The local dialect aspect made all the difference!!
When I moved to Costa Rica the Spanish was very different than what was on the tapes. The same for the Chinese my friends in China were using while I was there studying.
Context is god!
Context is indeed God.
I think Pimsleur created a decent exposure to certain patterns for me in Mandarin, but less so with the German course.
But I tend to find all educational experiences useful and this one is particularly interesting, especially given the original books and some of the ideas Pimsleur expressed in them.
@@AnthonyMetivierMMM
A few of the verbal sequences where we roleplay hitting on a Chinese girl were a bit creepy. 😅😅
In Costa Rica and Latin America the language spoken is Castellano which is a better version of Spanish from Spain.
I took 3 years of French in high school and I remember absolutely nothing 🤣😭 I just signed up for pimsleur to learn Spanish and relearn French. Two days in and I’m impressed. I plan on doing 80% Spanish and 20% French, unless there is a better way to learn two languages.
Pimsleur can be helpful, but in terms of a "better" way, I would suggest that it starts with finding the way that you will actually use.
I had a question if you'd be so kind as to answer. Copyright law in regards to book writing, I was interested in writing my own book on mnemonics, and was wondering if there is a problem listing characters from TV shows or movies? For example: Like Listing 6 characters from a TV show that could be used in a memory method. Obviously, I am not talking about using their likeness just the already stored image in a person's mind.
Thanks for asking about this, but I would suggest you consult a lawyer on matters like these.
Let me know when you get the answer please!
You would do well to consult your own lawyer because there will be context specific issues in each and every case.
I see a lot of Pimsleur languages only having level 1 and not the full 1-5 range. Is there any information how long they stay on that beginners level? Does it make sense to start investing in a Pimsleur language if the method only gives you the introductionary level. Then i have to switch to another method and consider not using Pimsleur at all.
Switching in this case would not necessarily be a bad thing. But I would suggest thinking of it like this:
As long as you cannot understand any part of the level you're at, you still have use for the program and/or you need to using the Big 5 much more. Here's a quick discussion on the Big 5:
th-cam.com/video/bR15aAXv-F0/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for this video ❤
Thanks for checking it out! What language are you learning at the moment?
@@AnthonyMetivierMMM I am learning Mandarin now. Unfortunately Pimsleur method didn’t help this time. I use Integrated Chinese book.
Great that you found a learning resource that works for you. Do you watch the Mandarin Corner channel on TH-cam? I really like that one for exposure to a wide variety of native speakers.
@@AnthonyMetivierMMM Great 👍 I will check it out! Thank you for the info. Also, thank you for your videos! I find them very helpful!
I am spanish and i have no idea of what you said in the minute 3:20
Your pronunciation is horrible, i cant catch a single word you said (Otra cosa [?????]), I don't understand the explanation ("its easy to laugh at the guy with the guitar in his hands"? What??? If that is the literal translation of what you intended to say, we dont have such an idiom or anything...)
I hope spanish is not one of the languages you claim to have learned and then come here and teach other people how to do it...
I used the pimsleur method for french, german, russian and portuguese. For me, it is the best way to start in a language. Then, anki to increase vocabulary.
The recitation of this phrase from memory is correct, even if my pronunciation does not please one person who demonstrates the point of the phrase by slinging ad hominem attacks and speaking on behalf of every Spanish-identifying person in the world. Any pronunciation issue to your standard is secondary when you choose to behave like this, actively seeking to discourage people from learning a language and misrepresenting the nature of my course.
@@AnthonyMetivierMMMIt is not (just) a pronunciation issue, you did not say a word in spanish and especially not the sentence you say afterwards in english (es fácil reírse del chico con la guitarra?). And it has nothing to do with my self-identifying as Spanish, I do not speak "on behalf of" anyone, I am a native speaker of Spanish and you do not know the language. It wouldn't be a problem if you admitted it, i would encourage you to keep studying, it is not my intention to mock you, but you claim to have a method of memorising languages and teach other people how to do it when in fact it is clear you have not learned the language yourself.
Could you transcribe that sentence in minute 3:20?
After you read this statement, you can come back and apologize or leave this in silence, as you please. But a continued lack of intellectual charity and unwillingness to take this passage of the video in its full context says more about you than it does me.
I did not say I know Spanish in this video and you continue to lack any form of basic intellectual charity in how you're trying to publicly shame a language learner who specifically addressed exactly how language learners have to deal with the kind of behavior you're enacting now. Shaming language learners is itself shameful and I humbly urge you to think twice about doing it ever again.
If you had watched this whole video, you would have noted my meditation on the pitfalls of dealing with people who act like you're acting now. But you're so busy with irrational and inaccurate public shaming, you're missing the point of the phrase, which is reportedly Chilean, is accurately recalled by me at this moment and I'm happy to admit that my pronunciation is bad.
In fact, there are people who love to tell me that my English pronunciation is bad too. I'm happy to relate to them the exact, and correctly memorized passage from James Clear in a newsletter dated Apr 23, 2021 containing this material:
"Criticizing a musician is easy, but it is more difficult when you have a guitar in your hand."
Source: I'm told the original saying is, "Otra cosa es con guitarra."
Your beef is with James Clear, not me. If you want to make egregiously ridiculous comments like you've done thus far, I'm happy to have them featured on this channel not only because they prove the point of this phrase, but they help me in many ways with my research.
You cannot mock me anyway because people who use ad hominem attacks (in any language) have already lost whatever point they're trying to make. All the more so when you're now suggesting that I'm supposed to admit something that is already addressed in the full context of this video.
So, thank you for validating the point of the phrase, and if you want an example of the last guy who got his head straight and eventually apologized for making ad hominem remarks that revealed his absolute inability to (temporarily) comprehend context and the error of his reactionary ways, see the discussion here:
th-cam.com/video/p84AmBUl7qo/w-d-xo.html
Or as I say, leave it in silence, because there's nothing further for you to gain by making claims of "native speaker" superiority or attempts to publicly shame me. But I have everything to gain when people like you pile on more evidence of just how bizarrely cruel, indignant and unhelpful people can be when you're taking the courage to open your mouth and speak.
As logically invalid as what you're attempting is, it's also tremendously useful and may even be screenshotted and used in my course to help students deal with exactly this kind of issue. I've seen before and I'll see it again, so thank you for a detailed and dedicated example that is especially ripe given the ad hominem unfairness and lack of contextual understanding.
@@AnthonyMetivierMMM
My comment is not intended to shame you as a language learner, but to record a criticism to your method of language teaching. I am not "superior" for being a native speaker and I have never claimed such a statement, but I think we would agree that being a native speaker gives me the ability to distinguish the faults of a foreign speaker in my language.
"Otra cosa es con guitarra" is literally translated as "Something else is with [sic] guitar", which I could not fully understand due to your pronunciation, and is grammatically incorrect (the saying seems to be literally written and said like this, but it is not grammatically correct in a common sentence of any Spanish variant, including Chilean). It seems to be a Chilean rare expression the equivalent of which would be "del dicho al hecho hay un trecho" (which more speakers of Spanish are familiar with worldwide) as stated in the webpage of Instituto Cervantes. Just think if a Spanish speaker were selling a course for learning languages or reviewing other methods and told you "As I hear they say in English, someting else is with guitar" with a pronunciation that would not allow you to understand a single word. It is not a criticism to you as a language learner, but as a mentor or teacher of language learning methods.
You say I am a perfect example of what the idiom is trying to convey, but I have already said that I am also a language learner of English, French, Portuguese, German and Russian, so I am not critizising your methods from an external perspective, but as a language student (and teacher of English) myself. I have used memmory palaces for written exams in different topics (History, Literature, Economics, Philosophy...), but i would definitely not use them for language learning. In your video you defend the use of memory palaces and your "magnetic method of memory", but I don't see any kind of benefit with respect to only using speech practice programs like pimsleur, spaced repetition like Anki and exposure to native speakers and their culture, without using memory palaces. In fact, they seem like a drag more than a help in this case.
As a student, anyone who is in a learning process needs support and positive encouragement, but when you put yourself in the role of a teacher or mentor and sell a learning course, I think receiving this type of criticism is pertinent. I am not addressing you as a student, but as a seller of a program. The criticism I make is directed at your teaching and learning method and its results, not at you. The way in which you learn the language using memory palaces prevents you from 1.- having an adequate and understandable pronunciation (something that the Pimsleur method works very well, which tells me you might not have used it for Spanish) , 2.- being familiar with the grammar, so that you can see when a sentence is grammatically incorrect to a point in which it might not be understandable, and 3.- the scope and repertoire in which you can use the phrases you learn (in this case, a minority of Chilean speakers), which is learned through practice and exposure to diverse cultural situations. An that is not an "ad hominem" fallacy, it is a pertinent criticism.
I understand the use of memory palaces when you need to follow a thread of thought in which, based on input A, you must be able to go through various topics B, C, D..., as in a writing exam. But I don't see any use when you have to transcribe an input A (concept) to an output B (expression in the language) constantly and differently in each new situation. Languages must be acquired to be processed in a more automatic way than the memory palaces allow.
Again, this misses the point. Had you not used ad hominem attacks, we might have had a more interesting conversation. But you did, you won't acknowledge it, and it doesn't matter how it was pronounced, how rare it is or what your research reveals that it means. The recall is correct and your personal claim to not understand the pronunciation does not make it "not Spanish," nor does it validate your claim that there is something awry with my course or with any mnemonic technique.
If you haven't taken any of my courses and don't feel encouraged to do so, that's fine. But in addition to ad hominem attacks (the meaning of which I'm not confident you understand), you are still hyper-focused on an instance taken out of the context of the full video and its reflection on dealing with criticism from native speakers. Your focus misrepresents the role of the Memory Palace as well, but that is neither here nor there because you don't seem to have taken this in the context of the spaced repetition video I clearly suggest people go through next after watching this one - which is another failure of intellectual charity in favor of tunnel vision on one instance that demonstrates little or nothing.
I'm very comfortable with criticism, and it is not possible for me to teach memory without having some people criticize it. But you've gone beyond this, and persist in providing evidence of the meaning of this phrase as presented by James Clear, which was accurately memorized and reasonably reasonably represented - just not to your personal satisfaction.
The fact that the phrase is obscure and rarely used only evidences the power of the memory techniques I teach. If you haven't taken any of my courses or know anything about how I discuss the problems of the pitfalls of memorizing pronunciation, all the more reason to treat a fellow human with intellectual charity. A pertinent criticism comes after a fuller examination, not before.
Thus far, I don't see criticism in what you're saying, nor much of an attempt to get at the substance of the issue in the full context of this video and the larger context of the linked video at the end of this one.
Rather, you seem to have a bias against anyone who has a course to sell, and perhaps this is what leads you in the directions you've taken.
What a rude barging into the Pimsleur community! YUCK!
Simonides of Ceos and many of his descendants may have been more courteous about offering to clutter up one's mind with a lumber storage building full of extraneous devices forced into service as memory assistance paraphernalia. Occam's razor does not need to be renamed as a tool to shave resources from your commercial victim's. Sherlock Holmes' memory management techniques likely were at least as effective and efficient without cluttering the environment with extraneous, unnecessary methodological words and images. Pimsleur language learners will likely serve themselves better with additional self-directed study of interesting reading material and pleasantly interacting conversation partners without the clanking contraptions of extraneous mental machinery.
I don’t understand your objection, but thanks for your post all the same. 🙏
@AnthonyMetiever you are not in linkedien?
I am, but in this post, you have not spelled my name correctly. So if I'm not coming up over there, please check the spelling and I should show up.
Ok, @AnthonyMetivier you are not in linkedien?
Please see my previous answer.
Thanks for the video, Anthony. It was fun to watch and reminded me to write more in French than I currently do. But: „Gefahr erkannt, Gefahr gebannt“. And while I‘m at German: I would say „zimperlich“ is used quite frequently.
Thanks so much and yes, writing is so key if you can squeeze it in.
I haven’t heard Gefahr erkannt, Gefahr gebannt before, but I think I can anticipate the gist of it (something like danger perceived danger avoided…?)
That’s interesting about zimperlich… I wonder why I ran into so many people who told me they didn’t know it?
These mysteries remain part of the fun of language learning, to be sure. 🙏
@@AnthonyMetivierMMM yes, that‘s what the phrase means :-) And I agree on your last statement!
I'm going to memorize it! Thanks so much for introducing me to a knew one.
Is "Wir atmen tief ohne angst" very common? I heard it somewhere, but I'm not sure where they got it or if is a popular Redewendung.
@@AnthonyMetivierMMM „Wir atmen tief ohne Angst“ to me sounds like a phrase you would say to yourself or to a group during meditation or autogenic training. But it’s not something you would normally use in a conversation.
Many thanks. I think in this case it was a saying used amongst a small group of friends, almost as a kind of coping device.