Is The Zettelkasten Method Really The Best Personal Knowledge Management System?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2023
- When it comes to Personal Knowledge Management systems, I've been using the Zettelkasten Method since 2000.
It sounds completely bonkers.
But it works, and there are good scientific principles that underly its incredible effectiveness.
I prefer to use the Zettelkasten system in combination with Memory Palaces for best results.
It enables fast and effective spaced repetition. Speaking of which, you might want to watch my training on that topic next:
• Spaced Repetition: The...
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Love the idea of using the Zettelkasten Method? Combine it with these advanced spaced repetition tactics: th-cam.com/video/2CthE_Napjg/w-d-xo.html
I saw another person with their knowledge system that was just:
1. A box
2. Vanilla folders labeled by topic/utility (number system included)
3. Big binder clamps to close the folders so loose paper wouldn't get lost
That was life changing and I'm hoping this helps everyone else too ❤
Sounds like a different system I use for different purposes. I'll have to make a video about it sometime.
I've been working on the best way to organize my thoughts for a long time. Of course, the "Zettelkasten" is an integral part of this. Alongside Söhnke Ahrens' book, this video is the most inspiring thing I've found on the internet so far. Thank you! It's a must-see.
Thanks for more great content! I definitely agree with 0:29 about the benefits of Zk, but one thing that came as a reflection for me after spending more time with it was that the "core thing" in Zk may be a bit elusive. It may sound weird, but I really think Zk(as we know it) is a container for a workflow for a specific end. Thus why changing it can be highly beneficial depending on the result you are trying to attain. In Luhmann's case it was scholarly content creation (with everything being done from the very start for that purpose). For yours it's memorizing and thus the modifications make sense. What I'm trying to say is that without that piece (the end result and optimization for it), it's easy for people to get lost in it. Especially if they don't know how to optimize for their outcome. You may even need multiple styles of Zk depending on what you're using them for. That's why I don't really think it's a knowledge management system at the core (you didn't say it was, just mentioning in context).
That's at least what I extracted from Ahrens book and Luhmann's essay on conversations with it. Are you aware of any other resources you felt were worth exploring? Curious your thoughts.
I think you've made a fair assessment, though I can't imagine any technique or process that some people won't get lost in. That's why it's often said that some people need to stop tinkering with the map so they can spend more time being the destination.
In terms of other techniques, I'll be releasing a video on a powerful variation on Zettelkasten next week. Here's where to set a reminder for be notified when it goes live:
th-cam.com/video/Y63eE3GjWyg/w-d-xo.html
Learned something new never heard of Zettelkasten method before.
It’s fun and powerful! 🙏
Love this!
🙏
Anthony my friend of many years!!! I’m really looking forward to maybe using this technique at some point in the future. I hope you are well and everything is doing well for you. I may have another idea that I may share but that needs some thought. As I always say: …Stay Tuned…. Bill
Always great to hear from you, Bill!
Shout out any time if you care to share your idea. Looking forward to it and likewise hope you're doing well.
I'm working away on my Giordano Bruno book as we speak. It's challenging, but fun!
What a great find you are! New subscriber
Thanks for joining us.
Any particular topics you're studying or want to remember better at the moment?
Same here! I was really interested about memory mastery techniques used for language learning, and Anthony has the most content (that I've found) on this topic.
Helpful content.
my note taking is completely on a graph book.. problem with that is revisiting the notes repeatedly, as its very difficult to reach to older notes and read it. this technique solves most of it..
I also find revisiting notes in notebooks time-consuming and difficult. Just one more reason I love this technique.
Awesome! I have just been given a new pair of shoes with a shoebox. I have also, this morning, bought 700 index cards ($10!). I had no idea you were in Aussie. Do you ever come to New Zealand to give seminars, etc?
The gift of new shoes has just been “Magnetically” expanded! 😀
To do an event in NZ would be great. I would need help from an organizer or event manager to make it happen, though. So maybe one of these days.
I definitely want to see NZ one of these days, but for live teaching, I really enjoy doing cohorts via Zoom. I’m doing 2-3 per year lately.
Does that training style also suit you?
Yes this method is very effective for me personally. I use it with Notion and Anki combined with spaced repetition. Thanks for this video
Great that you’re benefitting from it!
Any particular topics you’re studying at the moment?
There's a discussion I held with an Obsidian expert here if you're interested:
th-cam.com/video/AbGBktY3cmY/w-d-xo.html
@@AnthonyMetivierMMM yes, for my bachelors, for Spanish, network engineering in Cisco and for the major system. It’s mind blowing how we can encode numbers with vowels and sound them out with phrases and be able to recall a good bit of numbers back.
Yes, I always feel astonished every time I use the techniques. They are amazing. The great thing is that you can also use number systems in language learning thanks to their bi-directional nature.
The horrible, creeping, paradoxical feeling that I should be taking notes on this video. O_O
🤣
I must have missed the part where he actually shows an example of how he uses the zettelkasten method. Maybe in another video?
There are several examples and there are more examples on the blog post version on my site. Magnetic Memory Method + Zettelkasten should do the trick in your favorite search engine.
It also links to several Zettelkasten-related techniques not discussed in this video.
He gives all the building blocks for how the system works as well as a few examples 🤷🏼♂️
There’s so many techniques and ideas and methods, it’s inspiring and exciting, but also overwhelming. Where is the best place for a memory late bloomer to start?
Thanks for the question.
I would suggest starting with the learning goal.
Let me know if you have one. Usually the most optimal memory techniques are easy to suggest once that is known.
If the desire is for overall memory improvement, I would suggest this is much more likely to happen by having a specific goal to get started with using some of the techniques. So it always comes back to goal formation first in the end.
For more on crafting learning goals, please see:
th-cam.com/video/dPfW-pDyrmc/w-d-xo.html
I believe that a similar system was used at Bletchley Park to organise and cross check information.
I've also heard that the CIA used this to help them catch Aldrich Ames.
Thanks!
Thanks so much for supporting the channel!
Anything you'd like to see covered in future videos?
Nicely paced explanation. How many boxes do you own? Thank you. ❇️
I’ve completed many boxes over the years, but haven’t kept then all. I’m delighted by how much I remember nonetheless.
Have you tried the technique yourself?
I have created my own digital version. Currently exploring Obsidian and Notion@@AnthonyMetivierMMM
Cool.
I talked with an Obsidian expert here:
th-cam.com/video/AbGBktY3cmY/w-d-xo.html
… as a German Biologist -
You find your own way what works for YOU
There is no “best way”
There are many ways…
There is the appearance of many ways, but eventually they recurse and fold back in on themselves. This is part of the genius of this technique.
Can you make a video on how doctors memory work . How they remember words and medicine names . Thanks
Thank you for asking. Please see my medical mnemonics channel for many examples of that, including a podcast with a medical professional:
www.youtube.com/@magneticmedicalmnemonics/featured
ZK looked intimidating to me at first, but software makes it really easy. Just got to resist the urge to use infinite plug-ins and rules
Paper cards - the ultimate plugin resistance.
oh cool! I didn't know you were into ZK. I gave it a go for some time but didn't keep it up. I guess I was missing the 'commit'. I think I overwhelmed myself at the time or something. Thank you for stirring the idea for me again - this could be helpful for me with my podcast (which is a creative output I didn't have before).
In the next video you will talk about the numbering system, right? Isn't that essential... 1a,1b,1c,2a,3a,3b, etc
It's definitely something to practice with over the long term.
I use a completely different number system and don't find the classic system useful at all. But how exactly I use the technique depends on the nature of the project.
I suggest not following this or that person's system, but rather experiment and explore the key ideas of the technique, especially with the Memory Palace technique in mind.
Even where I unpack how I use it in combination with Memory Palaces in the MMM Masterclass, I suggest you experiment and explore with various options.
That said, I do believe how I've rigged it to work with a full Memory Palace Network does produce wonderful outcomes. I just don't know that they would apply to podcasting.
@@AnthonyMetivierMMM Ok, cool. Thank you. I have a lot to ponder on here.
Just let me know if further questions arise. I'll get back to you a.s.a.p.
I have shot a video about a similar system which will help make clearer how adaptable the core technique is. I'll probably release it before the end of the year.
@@AnthonyMetivierMMM Great, man, take your time. I look forward to it.
Sir when you will make video about leitner space repetition i am waiting for video.......
I just shot it, as it happens. It's not that much different from this technique, but please stand by.
Would this work fine digitally? I just started reading about a personal info management system called Obsidian that looks interesting. It has a plugin for Zettelkasten cards. I'm wondering if actually writing things out with a pen/pencil & paper enhances the system vs typing it into a computer storage system.
I don't personally use Obsidian, but there is a discussion of it here:
th-cam.com/video/AbGBktY3cmY/w-d-xo.html
One of the reasons I don't use it is precisely because of the benefits of handwriting at large, which also needs to be measured against the consequences of too much digital exposure. These matters have been well-studied, though obviously different individuals experience the consequences variably.
It's actually quite easy to test the difference: Use paper for 90-days followed by a 90-day digital trial. Test yourself with equally rigorous recall requirements and you'll have a solid idea of what works better for you.
Handwriting activated the problem-solving regions of our brain. Typing activated the language regions of our brain. So, yes, the pen/paper lends to deeper learning.
0:06 i didn't know i could develop language icks, but i guess we learn something new everyday even if we're not trying to. 😢😮
What are "language icks"?
@@AnthonyMetivierMMM look up "icks"
Ah, so you mean the German teacher telling me abut how to practice Z effectively auf Deutsch? That is indeed a bit icky.
Cool❤
🙏
How can I use mnemonics to memorize ASCII table? Too many of them are symbols and too many symbols don't even have pronunciation and I have to associate them with hex numbers and decimal numbers and as you can see there is too much abstraction in this table
If you have the full Magnetic Memory Method, you would combine Memory Palaces with your Magnetic Imagery and pay special attention to Recall Rehearsal in each column.
The exact level of challenge will depend on your current level of skill and experience, but this kind of learning task is relatively straightforward. I wouldn't call it abstract at all, and for some people, it will be especially easy because the links are simply number and alphabet based, all perfectly aligned in columns.
In what context would having this table memorized be useful for you?
@@AnthonyMetivierMMM yes so true!!! Some basic association and mnemonics creation skills can be very useful!!
I am trying to use it to memorize things related to math and computer programming. Also I think it can be used as a mind palace with 256 stage. And with some creativity I can use it for creating infinite list of infinite mind palace. The idea of this list is still a little bit fuzzy but I assume I can create it through ASCII table and dominics table where a every "password" can create a unique map.
I got the inspiration from what so called "procedural generation" video games. The maps of these games are not designed manually. It is created through an algorithm which makes the same video game generates entirely different maps for players each time they play it
Great video,but I dont have index cards in where i live.And all my boxes are full of books.Are there any alternatives
Cut normal paper down to size. I’ve done it many times.
@@AnthonyMetivierMMM oh ok.I've never even thought about it before.
I see that zettle is normally translated as slips, as in slips of paper, and Zettelkasten as "slip box".
🙏
🧠👍🙏
You didn't mention Paul Otlet. Perhaps you find him interesting. He spent years developing a decimal classification system for all knowledge, not only his personal research tool.
Yes, he is interesting, as were his collaborations with library science. I haven't read that he used Zettelkasten or other mnemonics systems, however. Have you come across anything like that in his biography?
@@AnthonyMetivierMMM Didn't read the biography. However, the whole system reminds me of a big Zettelkasten. Otlet and his collaborators used index cards & drawers. As i understand it, the connection between related topics was crucial to them. In a sense the system was smart and made use of serendipitous effects.
I can certainly see the how it brings this figure and history to mind. Personally, as a person with a library science certificate and nearly a decade of work experience in three libraries that used two different cataloging systems for the physical books, I don't feel that there's a strong enough connection to relate it to mnemonics.
True, relationships between topics and physical/conceptual/thematic relationships and so forth prompt recall of where books are located in space. But that's a different thing than using Zettelkasten when the goal is not to know the location of the card. It's to know both the content on the card and related materials due to how the cards lend themselves to spaced repetition.
All the same, I'll follow this lead and see if I'm incorrect on this to the best of my ability and thank you for the post.
@@AnthonyMetivierMMM Thanks a lot for pointing this out. I wasn't sure. Just because it might look like a Zettelkasten its use and function are different. Also, i have never worked myself with a Zettelkasten, i'm still using 'Voodoopad' on my computer. In my experience the Dewey Decimal System also provides a good chance of serendipity. You go to find a particular book but then discover other relevant titles in the vicinity. What Aby Warburg called the 'laws of good neighbourhood' in a library. :)
Warburg is someone I have discussed. He is much more closely tied to the mnemonic tradition in two key ways.
I saw that Joan Rivers used this system. Interesting.
At least one of the most difficult CIA cases used it too in order to find a mole.
Indeed! I’m studying IsiZulu, and it is the hardest language I have ever seen in my life, but this particular system would definitely help me to compartmentalize and memorize the many components of the language. Thank you very much.
It does look and sound like a fun challenge!
She did? Can we talk?
Many thousands - if not millions - of people have used Zettelkasten and Leitner systems. For more, see:
th-cam.com/video/Y63eE3GjWyg/w-d-xo.html
do the ppl who do zettelkasten just not have any responsibilities outside of academia idk how you can carry a pen and paper everywhere, for the modern world this is an almost unusable method for anyone wo class privilege
I worked two and sometimes three jobs while going through university and this technique was much cheaper to use in a month than charging the device I'm answering you on now.
The odd time my backpack was a bit heavy, I was always thankful for the exercise.
It's less than a dollar for 100 index cards, and you can get pens for free from many businesses. You can get a small notebook for probably 75 cents. 80% of the world lives on less than $10 a day; I'm sure if you're privileged enough to be on TH-cam, you can afford a little paper or can find some for free.