Lost Communications Procedures | FAR 91.185
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Losing communications under IFR when you're in the clouds is never ideal. Luckily, there are some very specific procedures to follow to give you, and air traffic control, a good chance at a successful outcome.
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I truly wish this channel got more recognition. I’m a few days out from CFII and these videos are GREAT.
Good luck on that second "I"!
Funny enough I’m in the exact same position, thank you for this great content!
lol same here
Did y’all get your Double I? I’m almost up for my Instrument EOC
@@dean6978 Hey hey, same here! These videos have more or less carried me through instrument ground and flight, my instructor recommended I watch a few and I've cross referenced with books and other materials. Good luck on the EOC and best of luck to you with your future endeavors.
Excellent review of the regulations. Don't forget, however, to review AIM 6−4−1: Two-way Radio Communications Failure, especially the first three paragraphs, which include additional details and guidance.
WARNING! If you're taking an IR checkride, IN THE ORAL, tell your DPE you'll fly to the clearance limit FIRST, then fly out to an IAF, and THEN execute an approach. DO NOT start an approach without first getting to your clearance limit. I failed my oral because I did exactly what this video is describing. The DPE told me: "I'm examining you on the rules, not on what makes sense". Does it make sense to start the approach without first overflying the airport? Totally. But answering that on the oral will get you a fail.
You got a dickhead of a dpe tbh
I really like the speed and tone of your voice in these instructional videos. It makes it so much easier to follow. I’m currently starting a new job, but when finances get stable, I’ll be looking into your IFR course.
Thanks!
Brilliant! Best aviation instructional videos I’ve seen.
you had my dying with the ice cream example 🤣
What if the coms failure is the first of a series of failures due to an alternator failure? If I've lost radios early in the flight, I'd rather get down sooner if other components are at risk of failing too.
Instead of completing a potentially long flight, what is the easiest way to return to the departure airport quickly other than squawking 7600 or 7700?
Excellent.
AVE F
ASSIGNED
VECTORED
EXPECTED
FILED
good explanation. just to be sure if you were flying at 12000ft with lost comms, when do you commence descent to arrive at the fix so we can start the approach?
Keep these videos coming. I am learning so much!
Will do!
6:32 OK but what happens if you have to go missed and you still don’t have coms? I assume you execute the publish missed procedures, but then when do you leave the missed holding pattern and re-attempt the whole approach?
So you fly to the airport (because that is your clearance limit) than backtrack to a fix from which to begin the approach? Or do you fly from V268 to an approach fix to begin an approach to the airport?
I was wondering, souldn't we climb to 13000 since it's an easterly heading? We don't have comms, aren't we at risk for collision from the traffic coming from the other side?
My lost comms procedure is to get my backup radio out of my flight bag 😂
If you are at 12000 and need to descend to 4000, hope and when would you do that? Going around the hoo hold in leiu of PT until you got to 4000?
I discover your videos : very interesting and practice. I subscribe !
Michell : private pilot aircraft and very light aircraft
Thanks, Michelle and welcome! Which light aircraft are you flying?
@@flightinsight9111 I'm flying on Skyranger.
Don’t think we get too many of those this side of the Atlantic. In any case I have trouble squeezing into the smaller planes! Looks fun though
You're flying east so wouldn't you need to fly 13,000 (odd thousands) instead or due to lost comms it is different?
Hi there. Just one thing i couldn’t get.
Why to climb out to 12.000ft, the highest airway altitude? Is there any rule to follow? Sorry if you told on the video, i just can’t see why to climb higher when your clearance says “clear 5000ft then 7000ft 10 minutes afer”. Thanks!
Hi! After the Indian Head VOR, the MEA is 12000 feet. With lost comms we should be at the higher of the expected altitude and minimum en route altitude
@@flightinsight9111 got it! Thank you😉
Since we're flying east in this scenario, we should climb to 13,000 to have 1,000 vertical separation from a westbound aircraft on the airway which may be at 12,000.@@flightinsight9111
Love your videos
I love you man!!
What about electrical failure in IMC?
Why didn't you fly the procedure turn at COVUK on the first lost comms scenario? I would expect the plate to say Procedure Turn NA from the west, but it doesnt
I guess I should have said the hold in lieu of PT. Still confused though
Hi, can you please tell me what simulator software are you using please?
This makes sense if its true....thanks
7-6 get my radio fixed.
Wouldn't you have to climb to at least 7100ft as per the low enroute chart's OROCA, while flying direct towards the Victor airway?
thats what i was taught aswell
oroca is not a minimum ifr altitude. 91.177
@joeyhill5769, still he was not on any published airway during that segment of flight, and below OROCA, which would disobey the 1000 above non mountainous and 2000 above mountainous terrain rule
@@joeyhill6957 .
@@graupe6149 the vector they provided was provided based on the fact that he would have that 1000/2000 obstacle clearance at that altitude until he intercepts the next airway or fix.
While preparing for my IRA checkride (next week) I came across this channel. I have to say it has proved invaluable in clearing up some of the complexities of various topics in short, concise, and simple illustrations. Keep up the great work!
Im a little confused, so if you’re clearance limit is to the airport (which it is 99% of the time like you said), then you first fly to the airport, then to a fix at which an approach begins? Or can you just fly directly from your route to a fix at which an approach begins?
My instructor said to fly to the airport (or clearance limit) than to an IAF.
@@blake9908 And when should I start my descent from the one I mantained enroute to the one required to start the approach?
@@IlPassato When you're in the Terminal Area, remember that MSA on each Approach Plate. You're guaranteed obstacle clearance in the Terminal Area so long as you stay above the published MSA.
One thing I keep on file are the phone numbers to the TWR's, App's and Center/ARTCC's (or FSS) I'll be flying to. Flying GA and being less than 15K MSL, phone signal will be good for the most part. If Iose Comms I can call and get help that way.
Been watching the videos out of curiosity since I fly a lot and wow pilots have to learn and do so much and get so little recognition for it.
If you were assigned vectors to your first vor wouldn’t you want to climb to the oroca of 7,100 while going to that first vor?
So I asked this to dpe and he said that usually when they vector you at an altitude that means you have full obstruction clearance for that heading and altitude to your next fix
Should’ve used this guys voice for the instructor on flight sim!
Dan, can you please clarify something for me? On an IFR flight, what do you do if you go missed approach and lost comms. I know you go to your filed alternate, but at what altitude and what route?
Thank you
At that point, try again leveraging cell phone comms to ATC. Otherwise the trip to the Alternate is whatever you chose in your pre-flight planning; after the published missed respect IFR minimum altitudes and proceed safely to the alternate. If you have the gas to stay near the MEA instead of climbing up high you may get VMC below a cloud deck going towards an alternate you picked for better weather; likewise, going up high could put you on top (doesn't necessarily help for landing). By this point ATC will be clearing everyone out of your way, they know you've had a very bad day :)
I wish All ATC controllers spoke as you do. Your C.R.A.F.T is as clear as day. 😅 some controllers i swear are speaking 17 dead languages all at once when we are giving our clearance. 😂
This is great. To the point. Thank you!
When I become a CFI someday I’m recommending your videos to every student of mine.
No way you did this at Morgantown! That’s where I got my training!
You are awesome man! thanks!
AVE FAME from the FIH
Your vids are great keep it up
2:50 Hell YEAH!!!
very nice
What are the chances you NAV portion of your ALL-IN -ONE GPS System is still working? How about if you encounter ICE at 7000'?
Thomas failure is more likely caused by antenna issues RF issues or noise.
You mentioned staying at 7000 because we gave GPS, and if we didn’t we would have to go to the MEA of 12,000. But isn’t the minimum IFR altitude here the MOCA *4600?
91.185 c.2.(ii) The minimum altitude (converted, if appropriate, to minimum flight level as prescribed in §91.121(c)) for IFR operations; or
It doesn’t say the MEA, just the minimum IFR altitude. I understand that it wouldn’t be wise to go to that altitude if you didn’t have GPS because you probably will not pick up the VOR, but im only asking in terms of the legal altitude. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
It's a good point. I think yes and no. 91.177 (a)(1) says no operations below MEA unless you're within 22 miles of either VOR, then you can go down to the MOCA. So I think the full answer might be to stay at expected of 7,000 and then climb to the MEA of 12k once you're outside the 22 miles required by the MOCA.
@@flightinsight9111 agreed, since we are using VOR, 4600 is only legal within 22NM. So you could technically stay at 7 until you are 22nm out.
@@flightinsight9111 love your content btw. Using it to get ready for CFII. And making a playlist for future students with your videos
Lose an alternator belt in IMC and your Glass will soon to cease to operate along with your radios. Maybe you're IPAD will save your BUTT, Bro. Just hope it's fully charged.
Are you aware of the TSO requirements for battery life, both aircraft and "glass"? Care to report how many failures have occurred where the batteries drained out, Bro?