I found that a short nose saddle less secure during aggressive cornering. I like the support and control of the longer nose on the insides of my thighs as I lean through the corner.
Would be interested to know what James thinks about saddle flex, rail material & how that impacts saddles, and what his view is of saddle profile (the hight of the saddle from the rails)
Same. I just ordered a sq labs 612 active which has an interchangeable piece that changes the flex of the saddle. Probably unnecessary but will be a good experiment.
Dude, when we were kids we told our religion teacher that we want to see Life of Brian in a lesson and we actually did. We didn't understand the message of the movie, but our teacher did. I still remember her face watching the movie.
I've joined the noseless saddle group recently and so far very satisfied. I've tried the Pro Stealth for a couple of weeks and changed for a Prologo Dimension which is working really nice. Good to know the concept behind it.
Had a fit, not with James, and long story short guy basically slammed my saddle forward as far as possible.. end of fit. Thankfully these videos exist and after watching them a million times I feel much better with my position!
I got a bike fit and ended up with a short-nosed Selle Italia. I have quite wide sit bones, so the saddle is pretty wide compared to what pros use. However, it's really comfortable for both road and MTB riding. I've sat on it for up to seven hours at a time and I've never been so comfortable on the bike! I don't know if the shortness is key - I suspect getting the right overall shape was more important - but I do like the fact that I can't really sit in the wrong position. This is something that's not mentioned in the video. With long saddles, people tend to move around and not necessarily sit in the correct place on the saddle. On a short nose, you can only sit in one place, and that's the correct place. This has been a great benefit to me. I don't accidentally sit in the wrong place for an hour and start to hurt. Note: I'm a slower, all-day rider. My experience might be very different to that of a fast rider.
I must thank you and James from other videos - slightly different topic - handlebar width - was suffereing from neck and shoulder pain on my road bike (assumed it was just an old whiplash injury which niggles me off the bike sometimes) but also ride a mountain bike with wide bars so never realy thought about it - had a go switching from a 440 to 400mm handlebar - perfect no pain :-) THANKYOU
James is the clean, British version of a Williamsburg hipster and I am here for it. Most compelling moment of this is when is when he looks at your saddle, is struggling with his personal judgment on it and your expectations. Man, that moment is rife with meaning.
I had to jump a dangerous, deep, wide, open drain across a bike path a few weeks ago. On the gravel bike. The Shimano MTB pedals unclipped. Found myself in the air, with both feet free. When I landed, the only thing stopping me hitting the ground with both feet (at 40 kph), my legs being run over by the pedals, and being hospitalised or worse (an absolute certainty) was the point of the (normal) saddle, which I landed on with my tail bone, so hard that the saddle was displaced. Despite the pain, I stayed upright. When I looked at what had happened, I was pretty convinced I'd broken something, but relieved at the same time, because it could have been much, much worse....and later, about 3 weeks later actually, it turned out there was no break, only an horrendous, internal bruise. That part of the anatomy it turns out, is pretty robust, and the bottom-most verterbrae are all fused together from age 25-30, which I hadn't known before. Anyway, a short-nosed saddle, and I wouldn't be writing this....
I’ve used the power saddle for a couple of years and never had any problems with it. Used it on both my road and MTB and it’s extremely comfortable... A bike fit from James would probably suggest otherwise🤣
The specialized power; one of the most used and preferred road saddles in the world is supposedly getting negative results haha. I have been using mine for a few years now, after trying out a bunch of different saddles. It is an amazing saddle.
Thanks guys great clip as always. Another reason for the use of a short nose saddle is if you have a problem with the standard size saddle hitting the back of legs or butt whilst climbing or sprinting for example I am 166cms and ride a Cervelo R5 48 with a slammed 130 stem. The short nose saddle gives me an extra 20mm which makes all the difference :)
Wow, perfect timing!! I bought a new bike yesterday, and I must loose some centimetres and the front, stem needs to come back by 5 cm, and raised up at least 4 cm "dodgy neck" And on a bus today I had a eureka moment, put the f..... saddle forward , I come home to find this film , James as always very interesting to listen to, but today especially interesting! Thanks!
I've tried noseless, and gone back to traditional. Found exactly that, hamstrings contacted wings of saddle, move forward and am then unstable, consistently across a few. Overall though, just found that whilst they may be comfortable initially, I always had extra weight on my hands from the lack of support from a "nose", no matter the tilt. As for that SLR Boost, yucky thigh rub! Happy on a Selle Italia Flite Flow.
Brilliant video - my son has suffered sores recently - got a short nosed saddle to see if it worked .... from listening to this - a bike fit is the answer rather than scatter gun equipment swapping. On it. Cheers James / Francis.
You've opened my eyes on how my build differs from professionals and how it impacts oversteer I experience on my road bike vs balanced position I feel on MTB etc.. Thank you!
I've tried the Fizik version and I've noticed that it is for very fit cyclists. What I mean by that is that as long as I am dropped really low, the saddle is absolutely perfect. I have a pretty aggressive position for an old recreational cyclist. So, as long and my arms are on the hoods and my elbows bent, or I am in the drops, the saddle is perfect. It is when I sit more upright, say with my arms locked on the tops, that the width is noticed and it pushes my forward. The saddle is defiantly designed for racing.
Finally! It's nice to see someone echo my own thoughts. When I look down on my normal saddle I can SEE the ~2cms they have cut off, and think to myself how does removing a part of the saddle I am not in contact with improve anything! The industry is obsessed with short nose saddles, "well, its short therefore it MUST be comfortable"
I'm riding a 2015 FELT AR, agressive aero frame, with a Specialized Power Expert saddle. Did a bikefit a few years ago. My background is/was heavy powertraining and in combination with the Power Expert saddle that translates into much weight/pressure on my hands (heavy upperbody). I can't shift my weight on the saddle due to the inclinded back. This video convinced me to try it with a new flat saddle. Received it today, will test it tomorrow :)
Being a former swimmer and now doing triathlons (Still ride a road bike a lot though). I can speak to the short nosed saddle being a great option for those who have made other changes to their position already such as shortening cranks and getting correct handlebars and stem. I went and got a bike fit and then went back for a follow-up to ask about short nosed stuff and I ended up enjoying it much more. Moral of the story. Get a bike fit!
Completely agree a proper bike fit before addressing (perceived) saddle issues is a must. That said, I use a Pro Stealth and love it. Not to be “TMI” here, but I had a surgery a few years back requiring an incision in the perineum, and I I will tell you... The relief channel is now an absolute life saver. If only traditional saddles existed, I’d likely never be able to comfortably ride a bike again. Cheers.
After 4 different saddles 2 T shaped 1 V shaped and an ISM triathlon saddle... I never got comfortable, Bought recently a Pro Stealth and i like it. Don't want to change saddle again. I will go for a bike fit if any issues, especially genital numbness which is my biggest problem occur. Not changing saddles again. Is money and time consuming and with no positive results whatsoever... By the way i chose this one 142 width to be exact, cause the one i managed to get better results was the V shaped one. Problem is it was 145 width and was hitting my legs. Also it had gel in it, which i don't want for my long distances. So i got a V shaped one with no gel and more narrow. And as flat as i could cause i have anterior pelvic tilt. Might not be the perfect saddle. But it might be good enough. Thanks for all your videos. They helped me A LOT! I will surely get a bike fit.
I have Power saddles on my bikes and I’ve just purchased a Power Arc which is pretty comfy, I regularly ride 100 milers at the weekend and do not have a problem, I could never get on with a conventional long nosed saddle, could be because I’m small and light however the Power saddles get my sit bones in the correct position, I even have one on my CX bike.
My experience: i had a long, narrow prologo saddle. Used ir for a year, no, issue. I wanted to get into triathlon, attached aerobars on my bike, made my position much more aerodynamic, I started to feel pressure on my crouch from the narrow saddle. Switched to bontrager short saddle, I realized what I thought was good before wasn't good enough. New saddle feels amazing.
That last point is probably the most important, everybody's different. Personally I found everything with a long nose, cutout or not, put too much pressure up front, especially when I'm low and aero.
I bought my Pro Carbon two years ago, & the larger channel wider, nose are way better for the sitbones. You can do more miles with less discomfort in the aero position. The only drawback I didn't realize is that the wider nose means less room for larger thighs. You'll inevitably get larger thighs by riding more any way lol. The other thing not to miss by upgrading to one of these saddles is the obvious weight savings, larger channel means less material used. So it's worth the upgrade, especially if you have smaller legs.
Good to see James and some more Bike Fit Tuesday vids. I started watching your videos a couple months ago, and James and your Bike Fit series really got me into the whole series. It's a rabbit hole of information, which has me second guessing every bike purchase I've ever made. Then again, I've been through 7 bikes since 2013. Started on a 58cm, which at 6'1" with my measures had my reach set way too far. Bike shop sold me a bike that was flat out too big. Since then I've dropped to a 56, but everything has been second hand used. Maybe when the kid hits kindergarten and we're not paying outrageous US daycare costs I'll treat myself to a bike fit and get a bike really dialed in.
I love these bike fit video just so I can learn and ask questions but at the end of the day I will always go see a good bike fitter than fiddle around myself with my fit but that is just me . thanks again Francis great content as usual and for just being so dam consistent, ur brilliant
Having sit bones between 143 and 155, I went with the Specialized Power Arc, which actually has a gentler curve at the front that alleviates some of the issues he mentioned. I’m also able to get right down on my bars which I had never been able to do on previous saddles since the Turbo saddle in the 1990’s
I felt I was too far forward on my Giant Roam e compared to my Giant Revolt gravel bike which is very comfortable. I went with a Prologo Dimension saddle for the Roam E but did not push the saddle forward and matched the reach from nose to stem joint of the gravel bike. This has taken weight off my hands and the saddle is also more comfortable.
I havnt yet bought a short nose saddle for my road bike but i am in the process of looking at one. But my experience with a short nose saddle comes from my beautiful Italian handmade Astute Mudlite VT drop nose saddle on my Downhill bike. The difference in feel & freedom of movement on the short nose seat on my downhill bike, to that of my long nose San Marco on my road bike is massive. To the point that if i could find another Astute Mudlite VT, (The Co sadly went bankrupt) with it's carbon rails & carbon/nylon shell, & it's leather cover, ortholite padding, & it's well placed cutout, i would totally get another & put it on my roadbike even though it's an enduro/downhill/saddle.. So my choices are the Prologo Dimension Space, or Ergon SR Comp. I mostly use my roadbike for commuting, but im a flat pedal rider as opposed to clipless, on my road bike as well. Not sure if that changes the ergonomics to suit a short nose saddle better or not. But my experience on my MTB is that i like it way better than the considerably long seat on my roadbike currently.
I use the specialized short nose because, as a heavier rider with no ass, I don’t catch my shorts on the shorter nose. I love that saddle (on my gravel bike).
I personally run a Prologo Kappa Evo STN on road and MTB and it seems to be the best saddle I've found so far. Plenty of padding in the right spots without feeling like big gel cruiser. To top it off it has a hidden relief cutout in the frame of the saddle so no wet underside riding in the rain.
Great critique! I was having soft tissue problems and decided to try the Specialized version. I'm quite pleased with it so far. But whatever floats your boat I guess! Thanks for the vlog. Always educational!
I'm very very happy with my short nose saddle (ISM Adamo Road), but I keep it back, ie clamped at the front on the rails on a setback seatpost, so it basically the same as my regular road saddles, just no nose - that I was not using anyway. The advantage is the pressure relief, in fact doctors are even prescribing them to folks with issues down there. Just bought a coupleof Fizik Mistica's which are similar, but real TT saddles. So far so good.
Another excellent video and love the Monty Python reference(s) from James. Plus a bike fit that is actually released on Tuesday! I must be an odd ball. I have a power saddle on my thin tire (tyre) road bike a standard lengths on my gravel (Prologo) and MTB (ergon). I like them all. The only thing they have in common is a pressure relief channel. I will try to pay attention to the flare on the power but it was all good this weekend on a 60+ mile ride.
Finally went to get a bike fit. The fitter raised the saddle 4 cm, and put on a 130 mm / 6 degree stem pointing upward to get the reach somewhat correct. needless to say, my bike didn't fit quite right! However, I now have the proper measurements to get on the right bike. Thanks James for your expertise & Francis for doing this series - I've certainly been schooled!
I moved to a power saddle. I actually left it in the same position as my normal saddle it replaced (measured from the back not the front). Other than the better sit bone support the main benefit for me was to stop me creeping forward on the saddle as there’s not really anywhere to creep.
Nice work guys. I have made the argument a few times on the interwebs when various people bring up "This is what the pro's do", that I could not care less what the Pro's do, how they ride, how they set up their bikes, and what equipment they use, because they have nothing to do with how I ride. Yet, people get really upset that I don't want to follow 'Pro' trends, FFS.....
Very informative! I have a Prologo NDR, and one day I love it while the next it drives me nuts. I just can't fine tune it. In fact, I think I can say that about most saddles I've had. The NDR swoops up at the back to angle the hips forward, but it's at such a degree that it leaves you very limited length of flat to position the sitbones on. As as result I find myself going back and forth with almost daily adjustments (I know, it's an OCD thing), trying to find the swell that I've created by keeping the nose slightly up to prevent sliding too far forward. And with the back and forth comes the up and down adjustments as well. With this, I've become pretty well convinced over the years that there is no perfect bike saddle; some of us just have to learn to live with what we have.
Man...I just gave up on the Dimension. I really want to like it, and with the way it's shaped should work right with my fit, but I too just find myself constantly fidgeting with it. Never really get completely right on it. Surprisingly..I had a take off Prologo Nago sitting in a box, put it on and was absolutely wonderful lol
Jepp! I've tested the specialized power saddle for 80 km on my s6 and ended up with wounds between the legs. My fav saddle is a budged from selle royal without a pressure releave cut/channel. No problems with it for rides over 200k.
My Fizik Vento Argo saddle has been the best saddle I've used. It's the only thing I've used that's stopped numbness. I've tried bike fits, two bikes, 6 other saddles including ISM. this one just fits my anatomy 🤷🏼♂️.
While I generally love these videos, I didn't really track what James was saying in this one. The video is about short nosed saddles, but he essentially refers to the downsides as either a) pushing it too far forwards or b) having the rear of the saddle too wide causing the rider to move forward (which doesn't have anything to do with the nose). So what about a rider that keeps the saddle appropriately far back and doesn't have rubbing issues causing them to move forward? It doesn't seem like the nose has any functional purpose...
Very interesting. I tend to find a saddle and then buy a few so I know I have a long time before I have to start the process again. Currently on the second of my Aspide Narrows, two to go.
I've got a Pro Stealth saddle on my Surly Straggler, best saddle I have ever used on a road bike, works great in fast position and also good for 200-300km rides
Fizik Antares carbon 00 for me. No cutout, totally flat and slammed back quite a long way. It helps to be quite flexible in the lower back. Never have any numbness or discomfort from the private areas even after quite a few double ton rides.
In the past few months I’ve been experimenting with saddles. I’ve gone from a “traditional” shape prologo kappa to a prologo dimension 143 and have also used a prologo dimension NDR. I’m loving the change to a shorter saddle, strangely feels more stable. Next is to try the pro stealth and see what the fuss is about. I’ve never really had saddle issues, and am not getting any from changing (touch wood)
I have a positive result i am 48 still race a couple of times a year in masters class the one i have is a specialized power arc can't remember the size but is the smallest i have no more than 3° nose down on a giant tcr size small with 20mm spacer up front i still have to change my cranks because during a fit i had I'm supposed to use 165mm so till the dura ace 9100 cracks i have to stick with my current 170mm
Put a Prologo Scratch M5 short saddle on my gravel bike. Extremely comfortable on rough roads. I can see some advantages in these shorts saddles but like all saddles it is a personal choice. BTW .. TDF winner was apparently riding a short saddle :)
What I've learnt from all these bikefittuesday videos, Position is King! Sort your position out first before trying to "fix" issues with new components. Hi James. When i ride on the drops or lean down to get more aero, the tops of my thighs keep hitting my stomach (which is podgy) should i increase the number of spacers under my stem? I currently have about half the spacers under it.
Record yourself and check how high your knees are at the 3 o clock position. If they're noticeably above horizontal your saddle may be too low and/or forward. If that works and then you struggle to reach the drops, raise the bars. It could also be a crank length issue but that's money... Or it could be the extra weight just being in the way, in which case it'll fix with time.
If you’re hell bent and determined to get a specialized power saddle because “everyone has it” please get the power arch version. As someone who was hell bent on getting one because “everyone had it” I ended up hating the flair and bugged me on rides the arch version is a compromise and feels better
I rode the Power for about a year, and can certainly validate the issue with the saddle being so wide you get push forward. Currently on the Power Arc, so far so good.
Recently switched from a Selle Italia to a Sanmarco Dynamic short nose on my Ribble GranFondo. My local bike fitter leant me a demo saddle fir a month to make sure it was comfortable. However it is a “waved” rather than a “flat” saddle which might be the reason I prefer it. My problem was I had been sliding forward/backward whereas with the waved saddle I feel more fixed and don’t slide around on the saddle as much. For background I am 66, 1,90m tall and 91Kg so definitely don’t have the flexibility and have my specific requirements
I need a wide saddle. I tried loads but most are wide, but the curve across the saddle is too much so I ended up on a wide saddle by measurement, but more like straddling a log. Bought a Fabric flat saddle. It’s got a short nose, but you don’t even know it. Very comfy
I tried a lot of saddles, including some exotic SMP's. I've tried Romin, Toupe and ended up with Power on my road bike. Short nose isn't a feature for me, i really don't mind about it because i prefer not to move forward on saddle. Only Power saddle is ok for me- i can do 100km ride without single stop and my bottom feel fine. With other saddles a had various range of problems: from slightly discomfort to serious numbness for more than week after big ride. So, it just works for me.
Thoughts on a leather saddle such as Selle Anatomica X2 for road especially long distance riding? Can you please chime in, I’ve been having great results on road riding but only negative is when I get too aero because nose has steel fittings to tighten leather.
I love youtube comments because they give me so many crazy ideas. I may (or may not, if I don't bother or find the rails are too short to the back) try this out
This is my favorite channel on you tube, and James, your experience and insight shine through and I feel so much more deeply educated regarding bike fit - so the best part of the best channel. I’d book a fit with you just for the experience of hanging out, seeing the shop, and hopefully confirming that my fit is spot on (well done!). Now, I do have a bone to pick here.... my experience with the power arc saddles to date is that they are somewhat limited when it comes to pushing them forward (and therefore beating the uci ruling). Even with a zero offset post I can only get to about 75mm setback at best (on a tarmac sl6), and I fear it will be even more challenging to get this far forward enough on my pending dogma based on my ideal setback. I think this is a great saddle for me in comfort and fit, and I’ve been riding the big s saddles for 14 years. Is there a possibility that the motivation here was to produce a better shape saddle rather than what you are suggesting? They didn’t simply lop off a few cms from the tip, this is reshaped substantially, and the rail position also reworked. Are you perhaps wrong on the motivation? I’d also add that I loved the toupe saddle, but the challenge from big s again is they have reduced options - hard to get a high end quality road saddle from them that isn’t short.... I’d love to hear your response, thanks again, Steve
I've been on a short nosed saddle for a year now and i am so much more comfortable. I think it is is the bigger pressure release area which i find ensures i can ride for so much longer. i have had a boke fit but still was in discomfort on my longer rides. Each to their own i suppose
I have used the Specialized Power for a few years following a bike fit. It is far easier to find your seating position.......because there aren't any other seating positions !!!! Really like this saddle, but love the upgraded Power ARC as a slightly better fit.
In 2015 I bought a Giant Propel Advanced 1 and the standard seat was fucking agony. I bought a Power. It was a massive improvement. It wasn't a couch but way better then the previous saddle with no pressure relief hole
Im a man and i carry a good size pair of ⚾️⚾️ .. this seems to be a issue with me and finding a good seat .. videos never mention anything about a good saddle to comforting my package..... any recommendations??
Are there any connections people are using between the shorter saddles and how the bike handles? I feel like the Power Arc and the Phenom from specialized are comfortable for me, different yes but I can go back and forth. On my road bike, either is fine. On my cross bike, the Phenom is so much better because I seem to use my inner leg to steer/lean the bike when I am out of the saddle. Also, I hate looking at my bike with a short-nosed saddle...my journey to find a new saddle (as my old favorite went out of production) landed on the Power Arc being the most comfortable, but the looks made me vomit. I've bought 2 more Phenom experts and loving life. Thanks for having such amazing content by the way...James and Francis. Your fit information has been invaluable-I am riding with more comfort than I have in years. I've done a lot of high-end fits, your info and my phone in slow-mo have been more valuable to me than the $ on those other fits.
Great video . I have raced for 20 years and rode for well over 30 ,and I thought I would try the pro vibe extra nose saddle it was a terrible experience, the extra load through my hands was terrible , and I couldn't get the saddle tilt right , back to the best saddle going around the selle smp drakon !
I like the bontrager aeolus short nose saddle mostly because it gives me ball clearance. Long nose saddles end up splitting my sack, and then I have to ride with one testicle on either side of the saddle with a ton of pressure on them.
My gravel bike came with a Prologo Dimension NDR T4.0 , a saddle designed for MTBs (a bit more padding) so makes sense on gravel bike. It is definitely, by far, the most comfortable saddle Ive ever had in 35 years of serious riding. Ive not ever really noticed it was shorter, just rode it and it felt good from day 1. I must admit ive always wondered why we have padding in saddles and in shorts? Why not just put the padding in the saddle? Why is 2 lots of padding better than 1 lot of the same comfort level. Obviously saddles can be lighter with less padding, but total bike/rider weight will be the same if none in the shorts. Years ago there was obviously just a bit of chamois in the short, padded shorts are quite a recent thing generally speaking. Is this just to make more money out of selling shorts, a bit like the air chamber in Nike running shoes, it's just a bit of snake oil for the overly eager consumer? Great vid - thanks
Looking into purchasing a saddle, instead of what came with my new bike, and always love James's very detailed discussions around these topics; wish his business was closer for a bike fit 💯
Everyone who I've met who prefers really narrow saddles tends to have the saddle ratcheted way up high. There might be a correlation between "clipping the sides" and excessive saddle height.
I bought myself a Gebiomized Secret Saddle Club Area saddle (which could be described as short nosed I think) recently, after a fitting with a very well respected fitter here in NI, just wondering what James' thoughts are on them? I had terrible trouble with the edges of a pressure relief channel on a fabric line and I'm hoping this will allow me to be comfortable on the bike after an uncomfortable 6 months riding through lockdown.
Sometimes I like to turn my bib cycling shorts inside out so I look like I have the arse of a baboon while I cycle.
I found that a short nose saddle less secure during aggressive cornering. I like the support and control of the longer nose on the insides of my thighs as I lean through the corner.
Would be interested to know what James thinks about saddle flex, rail material & how that impacts saddles, and what his view is of saddle profile (the hight of the saddle from the rails)
this is a great comment and i am glad Francis has seen it
Same. I just ordered a sq labs 612 active which has an interchangeable piece that changes the flex of the saddle. Probably unnecessary but will be a good experiment.
I feel personally attacked that i'm a 'senior viewer' because I've seen Monty Python 😂
Hey, stop that. Us old guys are not supposed to take offense at trivial items.
I nearly spit out my beer at that one
He’s not the messiah he’s just a very naughty boy
That's only a scratch 😀
Dude, when we were kids we told our religion teacher that we want to see Life of Brian in a lesson and we actually did. We didn't understand the message of the movie, but our teacher did. I still remember her face watching the movie.
I've joined the noseless saddle group recently and so far very satisfied. I've tried the Pro Stealth for a couple of weeks and changed for a Prologo Dimension which is working really nice. Good to know the concept behind it.
I think I just need to book in for a bike fit with James... on the basis that, I’ve never had one!
ah mate give it a go, treat yourself you deserve it
Yup
@@Bikefitjames I am even considering it, only i live in the Netherlands so distance is bit of a stretch and even more in these covid times.
Had a fit, not with James, and long story short guy basically slammed my saddle forward as far as possible.. end of fit. Thankfully these videos exist and after watching them a million times I feel much better with my position!
I got a bike fit and ended up with a short-nosed Selle Italia. I have quite wide sit bones, so the saddle is pretty wide compared to what pros use. However, it's really comfortable for both road and MTB riding. I've sat on it for up to seven hours at a time and I've never been so comfortable on the bike! I don't know if the shortness is key - I suspect getting the right overall shape was more important - but I do like the fact that I can't really sit in the wrong position. This is something that's not mentioned in the video. With long saddles, people tend to move around and not necessarily sit in the correct place on the saddle. On a short nose, you can only sit in one place, and that's the correct place. This has been a great benefit to me. I don't accidentally sit in the wrong place for an hour and start to hurt.
Note: I'm a slower, all-day rider. My experience might be very different to that of a fast rider.
I must thank you and James from other videos - slightly different topic - handlebar width - was suffereing from neck and shoulder pain on my road bike (assumed it was just an old whiplash injury which niggles me off the bike sometimes) but also ride a mountain bike with wide bars so never realy thought about it - had a go switching from a 440 to 400mm handlebar - perfect no pain :-) THANKYOU
James is the clean, British version of a Williamsburg hipster and I am here for it.
Most compelling moment of this is when is when he looks at your saddle, is struggling with his personal judgment on it and your expectations. Man, that moment is rife with meaning.
I had to jump a dangerous, deep, wide, open drain across a bike path a few weeks ago. On the gravel bike. The Shimano MTB pedals unclipped. Found myself in the air, with both feet free. When I landed, the only thing stopping me hitting the ground with both feet (at 40 kph), my legs being run over by the pedals, and being hospitalised or worse (an absolute certainty) was the point of the (normal) saddle, which I landed on with my tail bone, so hard that the saddle was displaced. Despite the pain, I stayed upright. When I looked at what had happened, I was pretty convinced I'd broken something, but relieved at the same time, because it could have been much, much worse....and later, about 3 weeks later actually, it turned out there was no break, only an horrendous, internal bruise. That part of the anatomy it turns out, is pretty robust, and the bottom-most verterbrae are all fused together from age 25-30, which I hadn't known before. Anyway, a short-nosed saddle, and I wouldn't be writing this....
Wouldn’t use one as a MTB rider either, but i think for a roadie it might be something to give it a shot?!
I’ve used the power saddle for a couple of years and never had any problems with it. Used it on both my road and MTB and it’s extremely comfortable... A bike fit from James would probably suggest otherwise🤣
The specialized power; one of the most used and preferred road saddles in the world is supposedly getting negative results haha. I have been using mine for a few years now, after trying out a bunch of different saddles. It is an amazing saddle.
I could listen to James talk about bike fit for hours and hours. The man is an encyclopedia of fit knowledge.
Thanks guys great clip as always. Another reason for the use of a short nose saddle is if you have a problem with the standard size saddle hitting the back of legs or butt whilst climbing or sprinting for example I am 166cms and ride a Cervelo R5 48 with a slammed 130 stem. The short nose saddle gives me an extra 20mm which makes all the difference :)
I am 167cm.. and I thought i am the only one who has saddle nose to hamstring contact during sprinting
@@huntsolofighter4265 sorry I just saw your message. Cleats towards the back help too :)
Wow, perfect timing!! I bought a new bike yesterday, and I must loose some centimetres and the front, stem needs to come back by 5 cm, and raised up at least 4 cm "dodgy neck" And on a bus today I had a eureka moment, put the f..... saddle forward , I come home to find this film , James as always very interesting to listen to, but today especially interesting! Thanks!
I just started using a Bontrager verse. So far it's the most comfortable saddle I've owned.
I've tried noseless, and gone back to traditional. Found exactly that, hamstrings contacted wings of saddle, move forward and am then unstable, consistently across a few. Overall though, just found that whilst they may be comfortable initially, I always had extra weight on my hands from the lack of support from a "nose", no matter the tilt. As for that SLR Boost, yucky thigh rub! Happy on a Selle Italia Flite Flow.
Brilliant video - my son has suffered sores recently - got a short nosed saddle to see if it worked .... from listening to this - a bike fit is the answer rather than scatter gun equipment swapping. On it. Cheers James / Francis.
You've opened my eyes on how my build differs from professionals and how it impacts oversteer I experience on my road bike vs balanced position I feel on MTB etc.. Thank you!
Saddle fit nose James
helo
oooooooooooooo
Oooooooooooooo I say!!
Who asked you to stick yer beak in?
This guy, he speaks sense and no nonsense. Thumbs up.
I've tried the Fizik version and I've noticed that it is for very fit cyclists. What I mean by that is that as long as I am dropped really low, the saddle is absolutely perfect. I have a pretty aggressive position for an old recreational cyclist. So, as long and my arms are on the hoods and my elbows bent, or I am in the drops, the saddle is perfect. It is when I sit more upright, say with my arms locked on the tops, that the width is noticed and it pushes my forward. The saddle is defiantly designed for racing.
Finally! It's nice to see someone echo my own thoughts. When I look down on my normal saddle I can SEE the ~2cms they have cut off, and think to myself how does removing a part of the saddle I am not in contact with improve anything! The industry is obsessed with short nose saddles, "well, its short therefore it MUST be comfortable"
Tried using a Pro Stealth, gravitated to the nose of the saddle, and got numbness. Went back to a 135 Selle Italia SLR and everything is great
I'm riding a 2015 FELT AR, agressive aero frame, with a Specialized Power Expert saddle. Did a bikefit a few years ago. My background is/was heavy powertraining and in combination with the Power Expert saddle that translates into much weight/pressure on my hands (heavy upperbody). I can't shift my weight on the saddle due to the inclinded back.
This video convinced me to try it with a new flat saddle. Received it today, will test it tomorrow :)
Being a former swimmer and now doing triathlons (Still ride a road bike a lot though). I can speak to the short nosed saddle being a great option for those who have made other changes to their position already such as shortening cranks and getting correct handlebars and stem. I went and got a bike fit and then went back for a follow-up to ask about short nosed stuff and I ended up enjoying it much more. Moral of the story. Get a bike fit!
Completely agree a proper bike fit before addressing (perceived) saddle issues is a must. That said, I use a Pro Stealth and love it. Not to be “TMI” here, but I had a surgery a few years back requiring an incision in the perineum, and I I will tell you... The relief channel is now an absolute life saver. If only traditional saddles existed, I’d likely never be able to comfortably ride a bike again. Cheers.
After 4 different saddles 2 T shaped 1 V shaped and an ISM triathlon saddle... I never got comfortable, Bought recently a Pro Stealth and i like it. Don't want to change saddle again. I will go for a bike fit if any issues, especially genital numbness which is my biggest problem occur. Not changing saddles again. Is money and time consuming and with no positive results whatsoever...
By the way i chose this one 142 width to be exact, cause the one i managed to get better results was the V shaped one. Problem is it was 145 width and was hitting my legs. Also it had gel in it, which i don't want for my long distances. So i got a V shaped one with no gel and more narrow. And as flat as i could cause i have anterior pelvic tilt. Might not be the perfect saddle. But it might be good enough. Thanks for all your videos. They helped me A LOT! I will surely get a bike fit.
I have Power saddles on my bikes and I’ve just purchased a Power Arc which is pretty comfy, I regularly ride 100 milers at the weekend and do not have a problem, I could never get on with a conventional long nosed saddle, could be because I’m small and light however the Power saddles get my sit bones in the correct position, I even have one on my CX bike.
My experience: i had a long, narrow prologo saddle. Used ir for a year, no, issue. I wanted to get into triathlon, attached aerobars on my bike, made my position much more aerodynamic, I started to feel pressure on my crouch from the narrow saddle. Switched to bontrager short saddle, I realized what I thought was good before wasn't good enough. New saddle feels amazing.
It's always an education watching you and James. Always ask the questions that most us would like to ask..thank you..😀
thank you!
That last point is probably the most important, everybody's different. Personally I found everything with a long nose, cutout or not, put too much pressure up front, especially when I'm low and aero.
I bought my Pro Carbon two years ago, & the larger channel wider, nose are way better for the sitbones. You can do more miles with less discomfort in the aero position. The only drawback I didn't realize is that the wider nose means less room for larger thighs. You'll inevitably get larger thighs by riding more any way lol. The other thing not to miss by upgrading to one of these saddles is the obvious weight savings, larger channel means less material used. So it's worth the upgrade, especially if you have smaller legs.
Good to see James and some more Bike Fit Tuesday vids. I started watching your videos a couple months ago, and James and your Bike Fit series really got me into the whole series. It's a rabbit hole of information, which has me second guessing every bike purchase I've ever made. Then again, I've been through 7 bikes since 2013. Started on a 58cm, which at 6'1" with my measures had my reach set way too far. Bike shop sold me a bike that was flat out too big. Since then I've dropped to a 56, but everything has been second hand used. Maybe when the kid hits kindergarten and we're not paying outrageous US daycare costs I'll treat myself to a bike fit and get a bike really dialed in.
Prolly the best thing i've seen on YT ref bike saddles. Kudos.
I love these bike fit video just so I can learn and ask questions but at the end of the day I will always go see a good bike fitter than fiddle around myself with my fit but that is just me . thanks again Francis great content as usual and for just being so dam consistent, ur brilliant
thanks Peter!
Francis -- good to see you back in shop and catching up with James
Having sit bones between 143 and 155, I went with the Specialized Power Arc, which actually has a gentler curve at the front that alleviates some of the issues he mentioned.
I’m also able to get right down on my bars which I had never been able to do on previous saddles since the Turbo saddle in the 1990’s
Good day, which width did you go by?
I felt I was too far forward on my Giant Roam e compared to my Giant Revolt gravel bike which is very comfortable. I went with a Prologo Dimension saddle for the Roam E but did not push the saddle forward and matched the reach from nose to stem joint of the gravel bike. This has taken weight off my hands and the saddle is also more comfortable.
I absolutely love my short-nosed saddle. If you have back issues this is very helpful.
Great to see Bikefit Tuesday back and on a Tuesday to. Always informative
I havnt yet bought a short nose saddle for my road bike but i am in the process of looking at one. But my experience with a short nose saddle comes from my beautiful Italian handmade Astute Mudlite VT drop nose saddle on my Downhill bike. The difference in feel & freedom of movement on the short nose seat on my downhill bike, to that of my long nose San Marco on my road bike is massive. To the point that if i could find another Astute Mudlite VT, (The Co sadly went bankrupt) with it's carbon rails & carbon/nylon shell, & it's leather cover, ortholite padding, & it's well placed cutout, i would totally get another & put it on my roadbike even though it's an enduro/downhill/saddle.. So my choices are the Prologo Dimension Space, or Ergon SR Comp. I mostly use my roadbike for commuting, but im a flat pedal rider as opposed to clipless, on my road bike as well. Not sure if that changes the ergonomics to suit a short nose saddle better or not. But my experience on my MTB is that i like it way better than the considerably long seat on my roadbike currently.
I use the specialized short nose because, as a heavier rider with no ass, I don’t catch my shorts on the shorter nose. I love that saddle (on my gravel bike).
I personally run a Prologo Kappa Evo STN on road and MTB and it seems to be the best saddle I've found so far. Plenty of padding in the right spots without feeling like big gel cruiser. To top it off it has a hidden relief cutout in the frame of the saddle so no wet underside riding in the rain.
Great critique! I was having soft tissue problems and decided to try the Specialized version. I'm quite pleased with it so far. But whatever floats your boat I guess! Thanks for the vlog. Always educational!
I'm very very happy with my short nose saddle (ISM Adamo Road), but I keep it back, ie clamped at the front on the rails on a setback seatpost, so it basically the same as my regular road saddles, just no nose - that I was not using anyway. The advantage is the pressure relief, in fact doctors are even prescribing them to folks with issues down there. Just bought a coupleof Fizik Mistica's which are similar, but real TT saddles. So far so good.
Another excellent video and love the Monty Python reference(s) from James. Plus a bike fit that is actually released on Tuesday!
I must be an odd ball. I have a power saddle on my thin tire (tyre) road bike a standard lengths on my gravel (Prologo) and MTB (ergon). I like them all. The only thing they have in common is a pressure relief channel. I will try to pay attention to the flare on the power but it was all good this weekend on a 60+ mile ride.
Finally went to get a bike fit. The fitter raised the saddle 4 cm, and put on a 130 mm / 6 degree stem pointing upward to get the reach somewhat correct. needless to say, my bike didn't fit quite right! However, I now have the proper measurements to get on the right bike. Thanks James for your expertise & Francis for doing this series - I've certainly been schooled!
He’s not the messiah he’s just a naughty boy 😂😂
obviously an older member of the posse ;-)
Yeah I'm that 50yr old you mention so often, luckily no desk job though 😉
With you all the way Paul, beer n bikes, because we are worth it.😂😂
@@jamesbicknell4706 Yep, I guess we can always look on the bright side of life!
@@williamsmothers8830 when you're feeling in the dumps, don't be silly chumps!
I moved to a power saddle. I actually left it in the same position as my normal saddle it replaced (measured from the back not the front). Other than the better sit bone support the main benefit for me was to stop me creeping forward on the saddle as there’s not really anywhere to creep.
Nice work guys. I have made the argument a few times on the interwebs when various people bring up "This is what the pro's do", that I could not care less what the Pro's do, how they ride, how they set up their bikes, and what equipment they use, because they have nothing to do with how I ride. Yet, people get really upset that I don't want to follow 'Pro' trends, FFS.....
Very informative! I have a Prologo NDR, and one day I love it while the next it drives me nuts. I just can't fine tune it. In fact, I think I can say that about most saddles I've had. The NDR swoops up at the back to angle the hips forward, but it's at such a degree that it leaves you very limited length of flat to position the sitbones on. As as result I find myself going back and forth with almost daily adjustments (I know, it's an OCD thing), trying to find the swell that I've created by keeping the nose slightly up to prevent sliding too far forward. And with the back and forth comes the up and down adjustments as well. With this, I've become pretty well convinced over the years that there is no perfect bike saddle; some of us just have to learn to live with what we have.
Man...I just gave up on the Dimension. I really want to like it, and with the way it's shaped should work right with my fit, but I too just find myself constantly fidgeting with it. Never really get completely right on it. Surprisingly..I had a take off Prologo Nago sitting in a box, put it on and was absolutely wonderful lol
shit Francis you actually uploaded it on a Tuesday i’m so impressed
Jepp! I've tested the specialized power saddle for 80 km on my s6 and ended up with wounds between the legs. My fav saddle is a budged from selle royal without a pressure releave cut/channel. No problems with it for rides over 200k.
My Fizik Vento Argo saddle has been the best saddle I've used. It's the only thing I've used that's stopped numbness. I've tried bike fits, two bikes, 6 other saddles including ISM. this one just fits my anatomy 🤷🏼♂️.
He describes the exactl problem I had with the prologo dimension. Switched to SQ Labs 612 Active and haven't looked back.
While I generally love these videos, I didn't really track what James was saying in this one. The video is about short nosed saddles, but he essentially refers to the downsides as either a) pushing it too far forwards or b) having the rear of the saddle too wide causing the rider to move forward (which doesn't have anything to do with the nose). So what about a rider that keeps the saddle appropriately far back and doesn't have rubbing issues causing them to move forward? It doesn't seem like the nose has any functional purpose...
Very interesting. I tend to find a saddle and then buy a few so I know I have a long time before I have to start the process again. Currently on the second of my Aspide Narrows, two to go.
James is back!!
He is absolutely the messiah when it comes to this stuff!
But he is still a very naughty boy also...
I've got a Pro Stealth saddle on my Surly Straggler, best saddle I have ever used on a road bike, works great in fast position and also good for 200-300km rides
Fizik Antares carbon 00 for me. No cutout, totally flat and slammed back quite a long way. It helps to be quite flexible in the lower back. Never have any numbness or discomfort from the private areas even after quite a few double ton rides.
If it works, it works!
James, you ARE the Messiah... of bike fit knowledge. Thanks for the insight and another great vid.
In the past few months I’ve been experimenting with saddles. I’ve gone from a “traditional” shape prologo kappa to a prologo dimension 143 and have also used a prologo dimension NDR.
I’m loving the change to a shorter saddle, strangely feels more stable. Next is to try the pro stealth and see what the fuss is about.
I’ve never really had saddle issues, and am not getting any from changing (touch wood)
I have both the Dimension NDR 143 and the Pro Stealth, the Dimension is cushier, and the nose is narrower, otherwise very similar.
@@leflate Pro Stealth for me. LOVE IT.
The biggest problem with the Specialized saddle in question is its outrageous price. I’ve had two, and have been comfy on both.
I have the SLR Boost and find it works well for me. The Specialized Power not so much for the exact reason James points out - the wide wings.
I have a positive result i am 48 still race a couple of times a year in masters class the one i have is a specialized power arc can't remember the size but is the smallest i have no more than 3° nose down on a giant tcr size small with 20mm spacer up front i still have to change my cranks because during a fit i had I'm supposed to use 165mm so till the dura ace 9100 cracks i have to stick with my current 170mm
Put a Prologo Scratch M5 short saddle on my gravel bike. Extremely comfortable on rough roads. I can see some advantages in these shorts saddles but like all saddles it is a personal choice. BTW .. TDF winner was apparently riding a short saddle :)
*Works great, comfortable too*
What I've learnt from all these bikefittuesday videos, Position is King! Sort your position out first before trying to "fix" issues with new components.
Hi James.
When i ride on the drops or lean down to get more aero, the tops of my thighs keep hitting my stomach (which is podgy) should i increase the number of spacers under my stem? I currently have about half the spacers under it.
I would be interested to hear also.
Record yourself and check how high your knees are at the 3 o clock position. If they're noticeably above horizontal your saddle may be too low and/or forward. If that works and then you struggle to reach the drops, raise the bars. It could also be a crank length issue but that's money... Or it could be the extra weight just being in the way, in which case it'll fix with time.
If you’re hell bent and determined to get a specialized power saddle because “everyone has it” please get the power arch version. As someone who was hell bent on getting one because “everyone had it” I ended up hating the flair and bugged me on rides the arch version is a compromise and feels better
I rode the Power for about a year, and can certainly validate the issue with the saddle being so wide you get push forward. Currently on the Power Arc, so far so good.
If you were to reccomend a saddle which saddle would it be?
Recently switched from a Selle Italia to a Sanmarco Dynamic short nose on my Ribble GranFondo. My local bike fitter leant me a demo saddle fir a month to make sure it was comfortable. However it is a “waved” rather than a “flat” saddle which might be the reason I prefer it. My problem was I had been sliding forward/backward whereas with the waved saddle I feel more fixed and don’t slide around on the saddle as much.
For background I am 66, 1,90m tall and 91Kg so definitely don’t have the flexibility and have my specific requirements
I need a wide saddle. I tried loads but most are wide, but the curve across the saddle is too much so I ended up on a wide saddle by measurement, but more like straddling a log. Bought a Fabric flat saddle. It’s got a short nose, but you don’t even know it. Very comfy
I tried a lot of saddles, including some exotic SMP's. I've tried Romin, Toupe and ended up with Power on my road bike. Short nose isn't a feature for me, i really don't mind about it because i prefer not to move forward on saddle. Only Power saddle is ok for me- i can do 100km ride without single stop and my bottom feel fine. With other saddles a had various range of problems: from slightly discomfort to serious numbness for more than week after big ride. So, it just works for me.
Thoughts on a leather saddle such as Selle Anatomica X2 for road especially long distance riding? Can you please chime in, I’ve been having great results on road riding but only negative is when I get too aero because nose has steel fittings to tighten leather.
Screw this, I just gonna preempt the next trend and just turn my saddle back to front!!
#BleedingEdge.
I love youtube comments because they give me so many crazy ideas. I may (or may not, if I don't bother or find the rails are too short to the back) try this out
Definitely a bleeding edge. Your edge will bleed.
think Graham Obree already did that....
@@super8hell depends on if the saddle can be moved back far enough and angled right once it's flipped... "instant noseless"?
This is my favorite channel on you tube, and James, your experience and insight shine through and I feel so much more deeply educated regarding bike fit - so the best part of the best channel. I’d book a fit with you just for the experience of hanging out, seeing the shop, and hopefully confirming that my fit is spot on (well done!). Now, I do have a bone to pick here.... my experience with the power arc saddles to date is that they are somewhat limited when it comes to pushing them forward (and therefore beating the uci ruling). Even with a zero offset post I can only get to about 75mm setback at best (on a tarmac sl6), and I fear it will be even more challenging to get this far forward enough on my pending dogma based on my ideal setback. I think this is a great saddle for me in comfort and fit, and I’ve been riding the big s saddles for 14 years. Is there a possibility that the motivation here was to produce a better shape saddle rather than what you are suggesting? They didn’t simply lop off a few cms from the tip, this is reshaped substantially, and the rail position also reworked. Are you perhaps wrong on the motivation? I’d also add that I loved the toupe saddle, but the challenge from big s again is they have reduced options - hard to get a high end quality road saddle from them that isn’t short.... I’d love to hear your response, thanks again, Steve
BFJ is mone!!! Great hair and Paul Smith shirt on point. Thx gents
I've been on a short nosed saddle for a year now and i am so much more comfortable. I think it is is the bigger pressure release area which i find ensures i can ride for so much longer. i have had a boke fit but still was in discomfort on my longer rides. Each to their own i suppose
Absolutely. Nearly all the short nose saddles we have looked at have had good pressure relief channels
Which is more better Fizik Vento Argo or Selle Italia Slr Kit Carbonio?
Short nosed saddles! Do you remember the Sling advertised in the adverts of Bicycling magazine.
I was only thinking yesterday that it’s been a long time since bike fit Tuesdays and James, good to be watching these again!
I tried 3 didn’t get on with any of them so I’m back with a normal one and I love it haha
I have used the Specialized Power for a few years following a bike fit. It is far easier to find your seating position.......because there aren't any other seating positions !!!! Really like this saddle, but love the upgraded Power ARC as a slightly better fit.
In 2015 I bought a Giant Propel Advanced 1 and the standard seat was fucking agony. I bought a Power. It was a massive improvement. It wasn't a couch but way better then the previous saddle with no pressure relief hole
Im a man and i carry a good size pair of ⚾️⚾️ .. this seems to be a issue with me and finding a good seat .. videos never mention anything about a good saddle to comforting my package..... any recommendations??
Where the hell have you been James..... Good too see you back👍🏻
Are there any connections people are using between the shorter saddles and how the bike handles? I feel like the Power Arc and the Phenom from specialized are comfortable for me, different yes but I can go back and forth. On my road bike, either is fine. On my cross bike, the Phenom is so much better because I seem to use my inner leg to steer/lean the bike when I am out of the saddle. Also, I hate looking at my bike with a short-nosed saddle...my journey to find a new saddle (as my old favorite went out of production) landed on the Power Arc being the most comfortable, but the looks made me vomit. I've bought 2 more Phenom experts and loving life.
Thanks for having such amazing content by the way...James and Francis. Your fit information has been invaluable-I am riding with more comfort than I have in years. I've done a lot of high-end fits, your info and my phone in slow-mo have been more valuable to me than the $ on those other fits.
Specialized Power Arc has more curved ‘wing’ tips. Fore aft positioning is key with Powers. Luv short nose saddles. Trying the Fizik Argo now.
Vento or tempo? And does it kick up a lot at the back?
thedownunderverse Vento, yes its very slight angle up. I’d say 5 degree angle
And which one is better power arc or argo
Great video . I have raced for 20 years and rode for well over 30 ,and I thought I would try the pro vibe extra nose saddle it was a terrible experience, the extra load through my hands was terrible , and I couldn't get the saddle tilt right , back to the best saddle going around the selle smp drakon !
I like the bontrager aeolus short nose saddle mostly because it gives me ball clearance. Long nose saddles end up splitting my sack, and then I have to ride with one testicle on either side of the saddle with a ton of pressure on them.
My gravel bike came with a Prologo Dimension NDR T4.0 , a saddle designed for MTBs (a bit more padding) so makes sense on gravel bike. It is definitely, by far, the most comfortable saddle Ive ever had in 35 years of serious riding. Ive not ever really noticed it was shorter, just rode it and it felt good from day 1. I must admit ive always wondered why we have padding in saddles and in shorts? Why not just put the padding in the saddle? Why is 2 lots of padding better than 1 lot of the same comfort level. Obviously saddles can be lighter with less padding, but total bike/rider weight will be the same if none in the shorts. Years ago there was obviously just a bit of chamois in the short, padded shorts are quite a recent thing generally speaking. Is this just to make more money out of selling shorts, a bit like the air chamber in Nike running shoes, it's just a bit of snake oil for the overly eager consumer? Great vid - thanks
Looking into purchasing a saddle, instead of what came with my new bike, and always love James's very detailed discussions around these topics; wish his business was closer for a bike fit 💯
Fore-aft balance is indeed key to bike fit and handling.
Everyone who I've met who prefers really narrow saddles tends to have the saddle ratcheted way up high. There might be a correlation between "clipping the sides" and excessive saddle height.
I bought myself a Gebiomized Secret Saddle Club Area saddle (which could be described as short nosed I think) recently, after a fitting with a very well respected fitter here in NI, just wondering what James' thoughts are on them? I had terrible trouble with the edges of a pressure relief channel on a fabric line and I'm hoping this will allow me to be comfortable on the bike after an uncomfortable 6 months riding through lockdown.
James got me on the Pro Griffin. Love it
Does James do any bike fit on full suspension mtb?
And is there any rules that are different in bike fit on a mtb than a roadbike?
Pro griffon is my favorite saddle too.
Thumbnail reference is gold.