Had this exact issue, was getting sores on one side, numbness, pain etc. Went through several saddles, different widths, shapes and brands. Ended up with a fizik Aliante R1 open in a 155mm thinking I had really wide sit bones. So when I finally saved up for a bike fit they dropped my saddle height, reduced my reach and put me on a narrow Pro falcon and it solved everything! Although it could have been a Montrose or a toupe but the Pro was cheaper. Everything I thought I knew about myself was completely wrong. GET A BIKE FIT
I really appreciate these videos but am starting to struggle with the bike fit industry in general. I've had fitters recommend both ISM for road and speedplay for me (and in general). And maybe James would also recommend these two products in my case too. But how on earth are we as consumers meant to sort through the marketing chat and find who truly is a "good" fitter (maybe these other fitters were pedalling snake oil, maybe James is, most likely there are just honest differing opinions, who knows). I've had three fits over last few years, all with different prescriptions, philosophies and end results to the point (when combined with James's opinions) I have turned right off the idea of future fits. Of course there is no one fit which works for anyone, but how is any consumer meant to evaluate value for money in such a nebulous service and such a scope of opinion? If we are told to just find a fitter we like the whole system seems like an exercise in confirmation bias vs optimisation. Anyway, still love the videos.
Totally agree. So many channels, forums, FB groups, etc keep hammering every question that people ask about a particular issue with "Just get a proper bike fit." I have no one like James around me. I have a lot of high quality shops for repairs and sales, but they're all associated with a big international brand and all seem to be pointing me towards products sold by their big brand, and in the past it's been completely different fits from those products. It does seem like people like James really know what they're talking about and are gear agnostic and just want to find what works, but I do wonder, especially in the US, how many fitters are of that quality and how far the typical person living in a random town would have to go to find them.
I feel your pain, and possibly numbness. I've recently bought a fabric Tri saddle just for an upcoming triathlon but I have my eyes on the sqlabs. Now my bike fitter, who fits TCR partipants tells me the width thing is largely bs, then on the other hand specialized 'experts' swear by sit bone measurements. Neil Stanbury on Cam Nicholls channel does an equally good job of explaining this as shown here. You just need to trial and error. The saddle makes or breaks an enjoyable ride - AFTER the fit has been adapted to you suit you of course, poor saddle height and clear position can ruin the feel. Would love to see james' opinion of sq labs 612 active range
@@nicknewcombe1429 This is strange I’ve found this comment. I’ve personally had a fit by Neil and had a terrible experience. The SQlab saddle was horrible! Very very uncomfortable and am still in search of the ever elusive comfortable setup.
Will we ever see the day when bikes are sold without a 'stock' saddle - i;e, part of the buying process involves being fitted for a saddle to suit each individual? It seems such a simple solution.....rather than spending ££££££ on saddles until one fits.
That makes a lot of sense. Except for low end consumer bikes, meant to be ridden out of the store, bikes are already sold without the pedals. So why are we required to pay for a saddle that we don't want?
That really isn't a simple solution at all by a long shot. It would potentially make the buying/selling process excruciating, especially when considering that a shop may not have many options in stock anyway. Plus this would imply that the buyer will simultaneously get a proper bike fit as well. Considering that all of this would take a very long time, it isn't particularly economically viable for most bike shops unless the customer is willing to pay even more. Or if large bike brands would give shops more of a cut. This is all a simplified perspective, but I don't really see this as being practical at all. Buying a frameset and selecting your own parts is an option, or like trek's project one where you get to choose components.
@@itsm3th3b33 You're not required to buy any bike, you could buy a different one. Better yet, buy a frameset and choose the components and saddle you want.
Someone like me Condor will build a bike specifically for you so you get too choose the components. Personally I don't understand why anyone would buy a bike off the shelf bike no matter the price bracket
I got saddle sores on both sides (along with heat rashes) due to riding a 155mm saddle. Adjusting to 140mm completely got rid of the sores. In my case, the saddle was definitely the problem... I can't even imagine a man walking into a bike shop and being told a 155 or 165 saddle will fit his body My extra padding might go up and down, but those actual hip bones aren't that wide
So the two big questions remaining after watching this video 1) what to change in your position if you get discomfort with a cut out saddle? 2) How to find the width of your saddle, if sit bone width is not a good indicator? Keep up the great work!
"If you're watching this video its probably with the intent on finding which is going to be the best saddle for you" - WRONG! I already have my saddle sorted (and been fitted on it by James to confirm this) purely watching because I could listen to the man talk about bike fit everyday 😂 like the new bike fit Tuesdays intro Francis!
Hey James, thanks for taking the time to answer this question. I've been using a traditional saddle like the one you showed on the video. However, I've noticed that whenever I have a demanding day on the bike, some numbness on the perineal area appears. I have my saddle height and reach fitted so I thought changing the saddle was the next thing to do. What to do? Thanks a lot. Hope you have the time to come next year to Colombia with Francis.
Great Video, I find a Fizik Antares perfect. It wasn’t always so. I had the normal issues, saddle sores in one side, foot discomfort in one foot, shoulder & neck aches. I listened to James’s videos and lowered my saddle. Magic. It wasn’t simple as I’d had two bike fits and my saddle was set about 50mm higher than I now had it. I had no issues on a ride of an hour or two but after longer rides the problems would show themselves. I did some research- pro rider height vs saddle height corrected for crank length. The best fit of this led me to believe that my saddle was about 50mm to high. I lowered it gradually and each time, after I got used to it I had reduced problems. I made the assumption that leg length would be approximately the be proportional to height. I ride a fair bit (9000 miles this year) so have plenty of time to check the results of my experiment on a sample of one. I now have no issues- even on 6+ hour rides and multi day rides. I don’t claim this is a cure for all but I see lots of riders complaining of problems and if not rocking they are cycling with fairly pointy toes. Before questioning anything else check the saddle height. Nick
As you well said, saddle selection is a very personal choice to make, governed by riding style and body shape, among other things. Personally, after going thru an array of saddle models from different manufacturers, I’ve found the Bontrager Hilo RXL Speed Dial triathlon saddle to be the most comfortable bike saddle for me and the one that adjusts better to multiple riding positions. I am not a triathlon athlete, just an old (literally) road cyclist and I suspect that many younger fellow riders will disagree with my selection. But, then again, it’s a “butt” decision that’s different for us all...Ride safe and comfortable!
After trying lots of saddles I must say that a I completely agree with James. A bike fit is the most important item to get right. The bike fit must be a bike fit on a jig to find your optimal fit dimensions rather than trying to get the bike to fit you. I’ve learnt the hard way at great expense but now see the benefit of getting an accurate bike fit and then buying the correct bike size, shape and style that matches your fit dimensions, ride types, and objectives 👍😁
Thanks for this video, very informative! Since a couple years have past since its production, just curious if you are still fitting 75% of riders on the Griffon or have you found a new saddle that is more "universal" for 2022? Thank you!!
This was a fantastic episode, and loved the comment regarding marketing with professional cycling - hit it on the head. Hopefully I can source just as good as bike-fitter as James here in Sydney. Loving the series Francis!
I’ve found the fabric scoop shallow saddle plus lowering saddle height a little to solve my problem with saddle sores! The flex that’s designed into this saddle seems to really work! I don’t get along well with specialized saddles and changed it out on my Specialized Roubaix!
What is your idea on the Selle SMP. My bike fitter advised me the SMP DRAKON for more stability on the saddle but after 2000 miles I everytime get the unpleasant feeling that my prostate hurts because it is kind of pushed trough the channel. After about 35 miles it starts getting unpleasant. I tried different angles but I can't solve the discomfort. The great thing is that the saddle helps in preventing pain in the back. Does this sound familiar to you? Thanks for the video.
Brilliant. Such a fantastic segment. Really appreciate you guys taking the time. James is an absolute wealth of knowledge. I rode a specialized toupe with great success for a couple of years. New bike, New saddle... Saw an episode last year where James made mention of the Specialized Romin. Picked it up, terrific saddle. Look forward to more of these insightful and myth busting, in some instance, episodes. Best, Rob
Selle Italia Flite with L2 cutout has always worked for me. I’ve tried a lot of saddles but always seem to come back to that. The best pair of shorts / tights you can afford is also critical IME. Great video again guys 👍🏻
I'm a big fan of the fabric scoop saddle, I've got it on two different bikes, it was always pretty comfortable, but especially so after trying some of the advice in a previous one of these videos, lowering the saddle a small amount allowed me to move the saddle back a little more, which surprisingly made the reach easier as I can be more flexible more comfortably
I went straight to the ISM 2.0 from the stock saddle after some long distance numbness (100km+). Done a two week long bikepacking trip on it comfortably. Love it.
Are you talking about the PR 2.0 (as opposed to the PM 2.0)? I demo-ed several ISM models last season, and am thinking the PR 2.0 was the one that was the most comfortable for me.
I ride an ISM on a road bike and love it BUT, I did ride strictly a tri bike for like 8 years. And so its what I'm used to. Also I would say 95% of road bikes with an ISM have them set up wrong. ISM has a commercial for the saddle in your hand and if you look at it on the bike it is slammed all the way back. Not to the max line on the saddle, all the to where the rails bend up to the nose. If you put this saddle next to a regualr saddle and look at where your sit bones line up and think about where you want your hips in relation to the BB it makes sense. Mine is fairly close to that. What I see is most people have the saddle mid way on the rails, and then up to get their leg extension which puts their weight on the bars, they then tilt the saddle to deal with the drop.
Loved what you had to say. Unfortunately I’m the one seriously struggling to get comfortable who you described. I’ve tried so many saddles and been in so much discomfort caused no end of health problems to myself and still. I’m uncomfortable. No , I’m still in pain! A Bikefit didn’t help, at all. I’m buying again, where to next? Trying a Selle Italia slr on Ti rails? The L3 size. Oh well.
Selle San Marco OpenFX Carbon Shortfit. Best $200 I ever spent. Feels like I'm perched more than sitting and can ride it for 50+ miles at a pop with no issues. Amazing comfort for something 155g with no apparent padding. I'm 6'4 with a viking sized package.
@@smokie33 What happened I wanted something flatter, the Pro it was fine, yes it was ok for 'miles in saddle too but I found the tt5 flat and that's ok tho it seems to curve to you, this I've been on for 2 yr, it's not as curved as the lite209 👍 basically it's the comfort of SMP that won over ;)
Great video. Oddly enough... I love that blue Fizik Arione. The very long lenght allows me to move around the saddle. I go to the front when on the drops, and to the back when climbing.
Love the videos! Can you do a future video on how to identify optimal saddle angle? Also, include how start the process of finding the proper saddle angle with flat saddles vs whale tail saddles. Thanks again for the amazing content. Cheers!
Hei! I would like to ask a BikeFit question to James. If you want to have a really aggresive racing position on the bike, is it necessary to still be able to hold this position when taking your hands off the handle bars, as i heard from some other bikefit advicers? Or is it fine to slightly ´fall´ forwards when taking off the hands, just because of the fact that there is so much weight on the hands in a super aggresive position? Thanks mate!
I don't have the precise answer for the saddle part, but one thing you can do to stay in aero position while not generating too much weight on the hands nor having to push too strongly on the saddle at the other end, is to adopt a "sphynx" position. Bending the elbows while resting the hands on the hoods will, after a quick adaptation time, become a somewhat confy position as long as you don't overdo it off course (neck pain and all), and if your handlebars are not too ancient (steep is what i mean), you can even rest partially on the wrists to relax the fingers or alleviate palm numbness. In doing so I've found that i don't slip as much to the front of the saddle if i've set it up with a slightly aggressive angle.
Thanks for your comment! I guess I’d question why you’d want a “super aggressive” position in the first place for a start. There often comes a point where you go to the extreme in the name of “aero” yet start to sacrifice biomechanical efficiency. To answer your question, I would still potentially want less pressure on the hands as it is an indication of a number of factors - saddle support, weight distribution, saddle height etc etc. Furthermore, the fact that you want an aggressive position makes me think you must be racing, you cannot handle a bicycle effectively with all your weight thrown forwards (remember what it was like riding a bike with your mate on the handlebars?) anyways hope this helps and HNY
Thank you Sir! I recently bought the new Ergon SR Pro saddle and really don’t know why I changed from the Fizik Tundra. I bought it because it was for a new gravel rig and I knew I would be spending all day on broken pavement and gravel roads. My old gravel build was used for shorter rides and only pavement roads. I’m not sure if I’ll keep the Ergon but appreciate your take on saddles and proper fit. I hope to ride Vietnam too, after I do more rides in the Philippines.
Best bike saddle is the one who does not make discomfort. I took a few saddles for a test ride for a few days, some of them even were recommended by fitters, as they were supposed to be better for me. In the end I always got back to my trusted Aliante, as other saddles were uncomfortable, some even to a point like I was riding on a steel rails. Maybe it is just me, but no flat saddle gave me comfort so far...
I really like my Brooks Cambrium C17 saddle. I rode the saddle that came with my bike for 6 years and had zero problems. Switched to a 'channel' saddle loved it, tried out my standard saddle, uncomfortable. Not to say I couldn't adjust if required, I just find the relief to be nice.
3:05 - actually, I've switched from Selle Italia to Fizik and the Fizik saddle is absolutely horrific(almost no padding but the saddle costs over 200 euros...). I have 3 saddles and I can say for sure that the discomfort is from the saddle.
I guess I am average, my two favorite saddles are the Specialized Toupe 143mm ( which broke) and the Shimano Pro Turnix 142mm (which replaced the Specialized). Similarly designed saddles and both are super comfortable on any distance ride.
When I first started out I was recommended a Charge Spoon and instantly found it comfortable. Many years later I have spoons on all my bikes and never felt the need to try anything else. My wife and some friends also use spoons and find them great. For what they cost £20’ish I’d recommend folk just try one before going the whole fit/expensive saddle route.
Bikefit James No, honestly I have them on my Road, MTB, Gravel and the bike I use for Zwift (about to go on now for 2 hours) and never had numb anything lol
@cade_media I can’t even get a bike fit in the city I live in (and it’s not a small city). Do any of the AI bike fitting apps work enough to get started? At least until I’m back in NYC and can schedule a bike fit.
Any specific advice for women's saddles? Beginner road rider (but have done bike touring) and can't get my head around what to get. Always had some element of numbness when touring despite having a fit before I left, but I hadn't ridden before touring so likely my position. Any advice greatly appreciated :)
Hi James & Francis, Loving the videos! What would you suggest as a good alternative to an ISM to have on a road bike when I use one on my TT? Have tried conventional normal nosed saddles and really struggle, is there one which is similar to the ISM but a bit better suited to a road position?
Hi, what are your thoughts on smp saddles? Ive read that Steve Hogg recommends them highly. Have you had any personal experience in using them during fits?
I'll let James answer for himself. I've actually used one fairly successfully before, it does 'lock' you in position quite aggressively though. Comfy for steady efforts like a tt, perhaps not the best choice for fluctuating road riding. I found the specialized Romin felt very similar but has a less aggressive curve to it so that's what I use to this day!
@@Cade_Media thanks Francis, good of you to reply. I'm using one now and do feel "locked in" , but it's not quite the revelation I was hoping for. I do like how it enables me to easily roll my pelvis forward for longer tt efforts like you say. Might have a look at the romin
I've logged 1,139 miles on the Toupe, which came with my Tarmac. I've logged 195 miles on my new Roubaix, which came with the Power saddle. Both saddles are phenomenal and would be my choice for "best", giving the slight edge to the Power due to comfort. In the end weight, color and rail material would be the deciding factor. For what it's worth... all the S-works 2020 line of bikes are coming with the Power saddle, and moving away from the Toupe.
The most difficult topic after "the right cycling shoes". I tested 30(!!!) different saddles until I found one fitting 95% for my arse, better say my perineal. I ended up with a sqlab 612. The only saddle that has a deep enough hole, with soft edges. It's the only one I do not bend my back out to release pressure on the "soft parts". The last 5% would be there if my hamstrings would not rub under giving hard pressure onto the pedals.
@@treeman8304 things change over time, you can do many things to change your situation and/or position. things like core strenght and that. also things change over distance. riding 200k ends with other problems than doing a short 50k ride. BUT some things just need a better treatment, especially when you visited 3 different bike fitters and none of them could solve that "special issue".
GOD.. I WISH I had a fitter like this in my neck of the woods. I am in the market for a new saddle and LOST. Tons of great tips here tho, thanks for making this!
The best saddle I've used was the Fizik Arione but having said that not all ariones are the same. I used to have a black arione and it was the most comfortable saddle until I sold my bike while upgrading to a new bike. I got me a white arione but it wasnt as good as my previous black arione. Since then Ive tried a Selle Italia flight, wtb, a velo gel and even vintage selle san marco rolls but still nothing worked. Recently I tried a saddle that's been gathering dust in my bike parts stash for the past 4 years - a never been used $8 Sam Moanie YBT saddle made in Taiwan and lo and behold! it is by far the most comfortable saddle for my bum.
ah too late :-) I am using two Specialized Power saddles on my Gravel and Road bike. I like them very much, cured some numbness, which I experienced with the stock saddles that came with the bikes.
Are the noseless sadles likely to cause hipflexor problems? My bike came with one and I find myself automatically moving forward on the it which in turn seems to cause instability in the hips.
Excellent! Which is why I feel bike fitters with saddle pressure mapping tech is so invaluable, as it’ll help to determine or confirm the issues described. And one will save so much money to just pay for a proper bike fit than keep on trying different saddles Do you need a cut out or not? Do you need a cut out or a recessed Center channel? Short or normal? Wide? There’s just wayyy to many variables
I ride the ISM "road" and works great for me. Had these saddles for years, but don't ride on the nose unless I am in the drops. I also prefer the original design with the road on the side. The new ones feel not quite as comfortable. Any comments on this saddle? Would be interested to hear your opinion?
I too ride ISM & love it & with 10,000 miles on that saddle in 2019 I will not be trying any other saddle. Sit bone & pelvic rotation is so important. I said “sit bones” to friend that I recently got into riding & she thought I was joking. beginner cyclist never think anything about it bc they simply don’t know.
Setting up after a long time off the bike. I really liked a San Marco Rolls back in the day, aside from a bit of numbness. Selle Italia saddles always felt like riding a sharpened brick. I like a relaxed seat tube angle and to move forward and back with terrain and to shift load from quads to hamstrings. What would you recommend trying out of today’s saddles?
Just seeing this some months on. Thank you for great content. Question: did a fitting, based on width of sit bones the fitter right off wanted to change(sell me) a wider (Ergon SR) saddle. Not feeling any issue other then some crotch numbness, but my fit (and frame!) Was not right. So I should be working on everything else around the saddle first, see where we are and put less stock in pelvic width/saddle width? Thanks !!
A 162mm Brooks Cambium C17 has been my long term preference. It would suit any form of riding save for flat out racing or hill climb TT events where optimal aero efficiency or the lowest possible bike weight were critical. I also have a well worn in Brooks Swift (152mm) and a Flyer (175mm and sprung), neither has the cutout like the Cambium but the Flyer is especially comfortable, though it weighs in at almost 1kg!! No question that the C13 Carbon (158mm) DID result in recurring sores despite exhaustive tinkering to establish the correct position, angle and height. All the Fiziks and Selles I've tried have been hopeless, like sitting astride the top tube with every bump in the road feeling like a kick in the nuts. Haven't tried any of the Specializeds, though I might well have given one of the Phenoms a go had the Cambium not caught my eye first! I wish this video had been 60 minutes long!
I couldn't find the right saddle for me for a long time. Two years ago I bought cheap Chinese hard shell carbon saddle and it works for me. I just have to use a little thicker padded shorts. No more butt pain during my rides :)
I used to get genital numbness when in the drops or aero hood position for an extended period when racing. Pro stealth solved that for me. Now use one on MTB and gravel bikes too
Can you recommend a saddle like the specialized toupe? I tried the slr and I had lots of pressure from the edges of the cutout. Is the phenom similar? Having a hard time finding the pro turnix in the us Thanks
I had my glute removed due to a sarcoma 12 months ago and since then my saddle gives me sores. My position was ok before and I never had any problems or discomfort. Do you think I need a new saddle or explore bike fitting again?
Hi...any advice for me? I'm getting a new saddle cos I have a new bike which we're building (WOOP!) I've used the sella italia which has been fine but want something potentially a bit lighter. Any advice? I do quite a bit of longer distances. Thank you
Had my bike fit with James and left his shop with a pro griffon 152 mm, great saddle, but as he said it's possible you have other issues going on. 🚴♂️👍
I just stick with stock saddle provided cos I find it’s seldom the fault of the saddle really. Most of the time it’s just me fiddling with the position then finding out it’s no good. Like moving it too far forward and giving me a sore knee. Anyway great bike fit tues /thurs / any day !
Ok, late comment, but I need to ask, I have tried almost every kind of saddle and get numbness, sit bone bruising and sores. I now ride with a selle Italia iron flow triathlon saddle and that has given me the best relief, but just as stated "as a last ditch attempt". The problem with a fitting is that here in northern sweden the options are not great and since it seems like bike fitting is often more philosophy than science I don't feel like paying someone that feels is more capitalizing on a buzzword than driven by science (I actually think they don't know what they're talking about and just want to sell the service and unnecessary parts). So, I believe I am some kind of worst case scenario almost always adopting an aggressive position both because I like it and to sit less on my sensitive bum, having every problem you can think of regarding the actual sitting (I also have problem with a hop flexor), can't be seen by the tip-giver and won't get a fitting at this moment. So... What saddle should I try next? Thanks! P.S I have tried to lower the saddle etc. with no luck D.S
I get James point about saddle width but I now have a 168mm Romin and its made all the difference. I might be better with a smaller one and a proper bike fit but for now its all good.
Sorry to use the F word gents but can I assume you are not a big fan of them ? I have a antares with a cut away . Would I bet better with a selle Italia etc ? What do fizik do wrong ?
The pro griffon is a comfy saddle I've git the 142 mm on my static trainer. My version has a relief but no cutout. The selle short fit anatomic is my favourite but not for everyone.
I have a question in regards to saddles for the Wise One. With an issue such as si joint dysfunction that results in foot numbness, cleat position and saddle height are from a relatively recent fit. Would a saddle such as the Selle Smp stabilize the si joint and pelvis to a greater degree that a standard wave type saddle. No fitter near me are willing to discuss the issue even my previous fitter.
James is always so informative. I have been having decent results with the Shimano Pro Stealth, but was wondering what he recommends for trainer season? Has he mentioned any position tweaks before? Lowering saddle, etc....? Thanks!
I lament the passing of the Selle San Marco Regale FX Saddle - a true champion of saddles. It was alessandro petacchi's favourite saddle. I still have a stash of them :-)
Question: is there any real successor to the San Marco Rolls? Meaning a saddle that is maybe a bit less wide but will fit an arse (like mine) the same as a Rolls? Many thanks in advance, and love the channel btw - keep up the good work 👍👍
Does saddle affects balance? I mean wt loading infront. I felt that pelvic tilt which causes impingement on my wrist is bec my saddle cant hold my pelvis into place...
I have struggled to ride any road saddle without about a 5 degree down tilt. I realize this causes weight shifting forward and recognize the symptoms this causes (shoulder/knee/hands) but the alternative is bad soft tissue discomfort or lower back pain. I ride with my pelvis tilted forward to keep my lower back straight. I’ve tried to lower the saddle but the pressure is still there when rotated forward. If I get it low enough to alleviate the soft tissue it feels like my knees are barely extended. My fitting experience has been dreadful with fitters setting saddle height ranging from too high to way too high. As such I just don’t even consider another fitting. Any help would be appreciated.
Did you mention the saddle that has proved itself for over 140yrs and is still sought by thousands? A saddle that depended on design, quality and adaptability? If you did, I missed it. I refer, of course to the inimitable B17
I have to say, this is the most informative video on saddles I have ever seen, especially the bit about ‘it isn’t the saddle, it’s the way we sit on it’. Never heard that before. I get discomfort on my left sit bone, tried loads of saddles, so what can I do about that? Currently riding a mimic,girly saddle,but also have a toupe. Should I go back to the toupe?
Huge fan, love the TH-cam adventures and thanks for the bike fit series videos. Would love to hear James take on using a road bike with aero bars and provide his thoughts on saddle and positioning. I ride a 2020 Trek Domane SL6 and have installed Redshift removable aero bars with (2) spacers. Love the additional hand position and see that most ultra endurance racers used aero bars to relieve their wrists. I use a cheap $20 Walmart saddle that has just work, the problem with my new setup is that around mile 60-70 of my long rides I start getting pressure that typically I would not get until mile 80-90 of a typical long ride. Hope the topic of road bikes with aero bars becomes a topic of a future episode of Bikefit Tuesday
I ride a newer Roubaix which has a more upright endurance geometry. I have a recurring saddle sole on my right sit bone that’s driving me crazy. I have a very badly damaged left ankle with limited movement, but I’ve been riding a road bike since my accident in the mid eighties. I have never experienced saddle sores in the past on my faithful Italian Bottecchia with its Selle San Marco saddle. I dig this new carbon bike with its Future Shock and all, but can you think of a good cause for these saddle sores.
Okey, let's say I've got the right saddle. 1.- What about the right fore/aft (seat post and everything) position? And.. 2.- Is it more important than stem/handlebar reach?
I've been contemplating the same things, but James basically answered my questions indirectly in this video. I've surmised that my frame is slightly too big.
Unfortunately can relate with this issues. I´m having saddle sore only on the left side; the right knee, at the top of the pedal stroke gets closer to the top tube than the left; genitals numbness. Found this videos a couple days ago, and they are being very helpful. Been thinking it was a saddle problem, but I was wrong, i actually ride a montrose. I´ve been looking to do a bike fit, won´t postpone it any longer. Many thanks to both of you
I have been using a Bontrager Montrose saddle for a year now and still after approximately an hour to an hour and a half my sit bones start to become sore. Any ideas on how this issue can be improved or eliminated?
My skin between ass cheek and thighs (mostly on right leg side) gets irritated/sore after 2 out of 3 rides. I've tried Synchros RR2.5 (135mm/290mm), Specialized Power (143), Specialized Power ARC Expert (143) and Prologo K3. Sit bones width measured to 116 mm at a bikefitter. It seems like it appears more often when riding hard than not. Got any suggestions to avoid getting this irritation/sore?
in terms of saddle, not sure if you can help, i get genital numbness after about 1o minutes on the trainer, on the road probably after 20 mins , i'm 6st2, 86kgs, long legs short torso and long arms, so i end to be more upright when riding, mainly as i'm 45 and prefer comfort over aero, i do tend to slide forward and back on the saddle to alleviate pressure, but dont get sores or excessive saddle discomfort, it just numbness, tried 6 saddles so far , is it more of a cutout needed for pressure, or is it likely to be a wider saddle or bike fit needed , currently on a selle italia supra, its tolerable but over an hour on trainer needs serious distraction techniques , any help greatly appreciated
After 35 years of riding with various levels of pain...ALL pain and discomfort disappeared overnight when I tried a heavy, ugly but VERY comfortable Selle Anatomica saddle with center cutout. It's been four years now and it is still "disappears beneath me". So how about leather saddles in general and can something similar be made that looks more modern and weighs a LOT less? Thanks!!
Xc mountain biking is very different in terms of what would make a good saddle and I have never seen any videos regarding that for so I would love to see it!
I will like to see a video in which James and the guys from Attacus discuss how different types of chamois will affect the comfort in the saddle. It might sound simple but I have a tried different types from more cushion to less trying to find the best combination. I believe that less is more as the more cushion chamois tend to create more abrasions. What do you guys use in the Vietnam and the US trip and what do you recommend.
I find the Romin more comfortable than the Toupe (style) due to the tail kick-up which seems to keep me centered on the saddle while climbing. Is this likely due to a fitting issue or am I just putting down so much power that a flat saddle can't constrain me?
What if you use aero bars, and your bits are being slowly being destroyed because you are sitting on the tip of the saddle when using the aerobars? Is there a saddle that's a balance between a regular style and tt style saddle?
![กิโลเมตรที่ 0 เดินทางรอบโลกไม่ใช้เครื่องบิน [Around The World Ep. 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/toJG9oofLFY/mqdefault.jpg)
Had this exact issue, was getting sores on one side, numbness, pain etc. Went through several saddles, different widths, shapes and brands. Ended up with a fizik Aliante R1 open in a 155mm thinking I had really wide sit bones. So when I finally saved up for a bike fit they dropped my saddle height, reduced my reach and put me on a narrow Pro falcon and it solved everything! Although it could have been a Montrose or a toupe but the Pro was cheaper. Everything I thought I knew about myself was completely wrong. GET A BIKE FIT
I really appreciate these videos but am starting to struggle with the bike fit industry in general. I've had fitters recommend both ISM for road and speedplay for me (and in general). And maybe James would also recommend these two products in my case too. But how on earth are we as consumers meant to sort through the marketing chat and find who truly is a "good" fitter (maybe these other fitters were pedalling snake oil, maybe James is, most likely there are just honest differing opinions, who knows). I've had three fits over last few years, all with different prescriptions, philosophies and end results to the point (when combined with James's opinions) I have turned right off the idea of future fits. Of course there is no one fit which works for anyone, but how is any consumer meant to evaluate value for money in such a nebulous service and such a scope of opinion? If we are told to just find a fitter we like the whole system seems like an exercise in confirmation bias vs optimisation. Anyway, still love the videos.
Maybe bike fit is an art rather than a science (like many other things).
Totally agree. So many channels, forums, FB groups, etc keep hammering every question that people ask about a particular issue with "Just get a proper bike fit." I have no one like James around me. I have a lot of high quality shops for repairs and sales, but they're all associated with a big international brand and all seem to be pointing me towards products sold by their big brand, and in the past it's been completely different fits from those products.
It does seem like people like James really know what they're talking about and are gear agnostic and just want to find what works, but I do wonder, especially in the US, how many fitters are of that quality and how far the typical person living in a random town would have to go to find them.
Perhaps a black art, at least with some.
I feel your pain, and possibly numbness. I've recently bought a fabric Tri saddle just for an upcoming triathlon but I have my eyes on the sqlabs. Now my bike fitter, who fits TCR partipants tells me the width thing is largely bs, then on the other hand specialized 'experts' swear by sit bone measurements. Neil Stanbury on Cam Nicholls channel does an equally good job of explaining this as shown here. You just need to trial and error. The saddle makes or breaks an enjoyable ride - AFTER the fit has been adapted to you suit you of course, poor saddle height and clear position can ruin the feel. Would love to see james' opinion of sq labs 612 active range
@@nicknewcombe1429 This is strange I’ve found this comment. I’ve personally had a fit by Neil and had a terrible experience. The SQlab saddle was horrible! Very very uncomfortable and am still in search of the ever elusive comfortable setup.
Problem with BikeFitTuesdays is that... it's not every day.
And it's not even on Tuesdays
Will we ever see the day when bikes are sold without a 'stock' saddle - i;e, part of the buying process involves being fitted for a saddle to suit each individual? It seems such a simple solution.....rather than spending ££££££ on saddles until one fits.
That makes a lot of sense. Except for low end consumer bikes, meant to be ridden out of the store, bikes are already sold without the pedals. So why are we required to pay for a saddle that we don't want?
Yes, buy a frame 😉
That really isn't a simple solution at all by a long shot. It would potentially make the buying/selling process excruciating, especially when considering that a shop may not have many options in stock anyway. Plus this would imply that the buyer will simultaneously get a proper bike fit as well. Considering that all of this would take a very long time, it isn't particularly economically viable for most bike shops unless the customer is willing to pay even more. Or if large bike brands would give shops more of a cut. This is all a simplified perspective, but I don't really see this as being practical at all. Buying a frameset and selecting your own parts is an option, or like trek's project one where you get to choose components.
@@itsm3th3b33 You're not required to buy any bike, you could buy a different one. Better yet, buy a frameset and choose the components and saddle you want.
Someone like me Condor will build a bike specifically for you so you get too choose the components. Personally I don't understand why anyone would buy a bike off the shelf bike no matter the price bracket
I got saddle sores on both sides (along with heat rashes) due to riding a 155mm saddle. Adjusting to 140mm completely got rid of the sores. In my case, the saddle was definitely the problem... I can't even imagine a man walking into a bike shop and being told a 155 or 165 saddle will fit his body
My extra padding might go up and down, but those actual hip bones aren't that wide
So the two big questions remaining after watching this video 1) what to change in your position if you get discomfort with a cut out saddle? 2) How to find the width of your saddle, if sit bone width is not a good indicator? Keep up the great work!
I've designed ergonomic medical devices and this whole topic is extremely confusing to me. Saddles need to generally be wider and have almost no nose
"If you're watching this video its probably with the intent on finding which is going to be the best saddle for you" - WRONG! I already have my saddle sorted (and been fitted on it by James to confirm this) purely watching because I could listen to the man talk about bike fit everyday 😂 like the new bike fit Tuesdays intro Francis!
For the knowledge &: wisdom of this video--communication-
share-broadcast IS with the gratitude.🙏👍
Selle SMP. The end. Forma for me. Fixed everything.
Hey James, thanks for taking the time to answer this question. I've been using a traditional saddle like the one you showed on the video. However, I've noticed that whenever I have a demanding day on the bike, some numbness on the perineal area appears. I have my saddle height and reach fitted so I thought changing the saddle was the next thing to do. What to do? Thanks a lot. Hope you have the time to come next year to Colombia with Francis.
Great Video,
I find a Fizik Antares perfect. It wasn’t always so. I had the normal issues, saddle sores in one side, foot discomfort in one foot, shoulder & neck aches. I listened to James’s videos and lowered my saddle. Magic. It wasn’t simple as I’d had two bike fits and my saddle was set about 50mm higher than I now had it. I had no issues on a ride of an hour or two but after longer rides the problems would show themselves.
I did some research- pro rider height vs saddle height corrected for crank length. The best fit of this led me to believe that my saddle was about 50mm to high. I lowered it gradually and each time, after I got used to it I had reduced problems.
I made the assumption that leg length would be approximately the be proportional to height.
I ride a fair bit (9000 miles this year) so have plenty of time to check the results of my experiment on a sample of one. I now have no issues- even on 6+ hour rides and multi day rides.
I don’t claim this is a cure for all but I see lots of riders complaining of problems and if not rocking they are cycling with fairly pointy toes.
Before questioning anything else check the saddle height.
Nick
This saddle was really hard and uncomfortable for me but glad it works for you.
Plant Powered Health I’d describe it as nice and firm. The R1 is slightly firmer than the R3 and that’s slightly firmer than the R5. I prefer the R1.
50mm is a big drop!
I need a bike fit !
As you well said, saddle selection is a very personal choice to make, governed by riding style and body shape, among other things. Personally, after going thru an array of saddle models from different manufacturers, I’ve found the Bontrager Hilo RXL Speed Dial triathlon saddle to be the most comfortable bike saddle for me and the one that adjusts better to multiple riding positions. I am not a triathlon athlete, just an old (literally) road cyclist and I suspect that many younger fellow riders will disagree with my selection. But, then again, it’s a “butt” decision that’s different for us all...Ride safe and comfortable!
After trying lots of saddles I must say that a I completely agree with James. A bike fit is the most important item to get right. The bike fit must be a bike fit on a jig to find your optimal fit dimensions rather than trying to get the bike to fit you. I’ve learnt the hard way at great expense but now see the benefit of getting an accurate bike fit and then buying the correct bike size, shape and style that matches your fit dimensions, ride types, and objectives 👍😁
Thanks for this video, very informative! Since a couple years have past since its production, just curious if you are still fitting 75% of riders on the Griffon or have you found a new saddle that is more "universal" for 2022? Thank you!!
This was a fantastic episode, and loved the comment regarding marketing with professional cycling - hit it on the head. Hopefully I can source just as good as bike-fitter as James here in Sydney. Loving the series Francis!
I’ve found the fabric scoop shallow saddle plus lowering saddle height a little to solve my problem with saddle sores! The flex that’s designed into this saddle seems to really work! I don’t get along well with specialized saddles and changed it out on my Specialized Roubaix!
What is your idea on the Selle SMP. My bike fitter advised me the SMP DRAKON for more stability on the saddle but after 2000 miles I everytime get the unpleasant feeling that my prostate hurts because it is kind of pushed trough the channel. After about 35 miles it starts getting unpleasant. I tried different angles but I can't solve the discomfort. The great thing is that the saddle helps in preventing pain in the back. Does this sound familiar to you? Thanks for the video.
Brilliant. Such a fantastic segment. Really appreciate you guys taking the time. James is an absolute wealth of knowledge. I rode a specialized toupe with great success for a couple of years. New bike, New saddle... Saw an episode last year where James made mention of the Specialized Romin. Picked it up, terrific saddle. Look forward to more of these insightful and myth busting, in some instance, episodes. Best, Rob
These are great, learn so much and after seeing what you and the rest of your mates ride very helpful.
Selle Italia Flite with L2 cutout has always worked for me. I’ve tried a lot of saddles but always seem to come back to that. The best pair of shorts / tights you can afford is also critical IME. Great video again guys 👍🏻
Thats the worst saddle for me
the stig Everyone is different......🤷♂️
Most people will go their entire life looking for a comfortable sadle
YES THE ISM! I LOVE it
I'm a big fan of the fabric scoop saddle, I've got it on two different bikes, it was always pretty comfortable, but especially so after trying some of the advice in a previous one of these videos, lowering the saddle a small amount allowed me to move the saddle back a little more, which surprisingly made the reach easier as I can be more flexible more comfortably
Using this on a road bike ?
@@cybersurfr22 the fabric scoop? Yeah I still use either that or the line (the one with the cut out) still find them very comfortable
I went straight to the ISM 2.0 from the stock saddle after some long distance numbness (100km+). Done a two week long bikepacking trip on it comfortably. Love it.
Are you talking about the PR 2.0 (as opposed to the PM 2.0)? I demo-ed several ISM models last season, and am thinking the PR 2.0 was the one that was the most comfortable for me.
I ride an ISM on a road bike and love it BUT, I did ride strictly a tri bike for like 8 years. And so its what I'm used to. Also I would say 95% of road bikes with an ISM have them set up wrong. ISM has a commercial for the saddle in your hand and if you look at it on the bike it is slammed all the way back. Not to the max line on the saddle, all the to where the rails bend up to the nose. If you put this saddle next to a regualr saddle and look at where your sit bones line up and think about where you want your hips in relation to the BB it makes sense. Mine is fairly close to that. What I see is most people have the saddle mid way on the rails, and then up to get their leg extension which puts their weight on the bars, they then tilt the saddle to deal with the drop.
Loved what you had to say. Unfortunately I’m the one seriously struggling to get comfortable who you described. I’ve tried so many saddles and been in so much discomfort caused no end of health problems to myself and still. I’m uncomfortable. No , I’m still in pain! A Bikefit didn’t help, at all. I’m buying again, where to next? Trying a Selle Italia slr on Ti rails? The L3 size. Oh well.
I've done the same thing and moved on to trying the BiSaddle.
Great vid, very informative and James is such a good explainer
Selle San Marco OpenFX Carbon Shortfit. Best $200 I ever spent. Feels like I'm perched more than sitting and can ride it for 50+ miles at a pop with no issues. Amazing comfort for something 155g with no apparent padding. I'm 6'4 with a viking sized package.
I was on a smp lite 209 for YEARS...and it's really good for doing big miles but now I'm on a Shimano pro stealth saddle 👍
Why did you change over? Do you still do big miles on the changed saddle. Is it better than smp? I'm riding wo.ens smp wide saddle.
@@smokie33 What happened I wanted something flatter, the Pro it was fine, yes it was ok for 'miles in saddle too but I found the tt5 flat and that's ok tho it seems to curve to you, this I've been on for 2 yr, it's not as curved as the lite209 👍 basically it's the comfort of SMP that won over ;)
Great video. Oddly enough... I love that blue Fizik Arione. The very long lenght allows me to move around the saddle. I go to the front when on the drops, and to the back when climbing.
Francis Cade, What are your thoughts on SQ Labs saddles?
Love the videos! Can you do a future video on how to identify optimal saddle angle? Also, include how start the process of finding the proper saddle angle with flat saddles vs whale tail saddles.
Thanks again for the amazing content. Cheers!
I switched from a 142mm stealth limited to a pro griffon 142mm and am returning it tomorrow. I actually bought two.
Hei! I would like to ask a BikeFit question to James. If you want to have a really aggresive racing position on the bike, is it necessary to still be able to hold this position when taking your hands off the handle bars, as i heard from some other bikefit advicers? Or is it fine to slightly ´fall´ forwards when taking off the hands, just because of the fact that there is so much weight on the hands in a super aggresive position?
Thanks mate!
I would also like to know the answer on the above, thanks!
I don't have the precise answer for the saddle part, but one thing you can do to stay in aero position while not generating too much weight on the hands nor having to push too strongly on the saddle at the other end, is to adopt a "sphynx" position. Bending the elbows while resting the hands on the hoods will, after a quick adaptation time, become a somewhat confy position as long as you don't overdo it off course (neck pain and all), and if your handlebars are not too ancient (steep is what i mean), you can even rest partially on the wrists to relax the fingers or alleviate palm numbness. In doing so I've found that i don't slip as much to the front of the saddle if i've set it up with a slightly aggressive angle.
Thanks for your comment! I guess I’d question why you’d want a “super aggressive” position in the first place for a start. There often comes a point where you go to the extreme in the name of “aero” yet start to sacrifice biomechanical efficiency. To answer your question, I would still potentially want less pressure on the hands as it is an indication of a number of factors - saddle support, weight distribution, saddle height etc etc. Furthermore, the fact that you want an aggressive position makes me think you must be racing, you cannot handle a bicycle effectively with all your weight thrown forwards (remember what it was like riding a bike with your mate on the handlebars?) anyways hope this helps and HNY
Thank you Sir! I recently bought the new Ergon SR Pro saddle and really don’t know why I changed from the Fizik Tundra. I bought it because it was for a new gravel rig and I knew I would be spending all day on broken pavement and gravel roads. My old gravel build was used for shorter rides and only pavement roads.
I’m not sure if I’ll keep the Ergon but appreciate your take on saddles and proper fit. I hope to ride Vietnam too, after I do more rides in the Philippines.
Best bike saddle is the one who does not make discomfort. I took a few saddles for a test ride for a few days, some of them even were recommended by fitters, as they were supposed to be better for me. In the end I always got back to my trusted Aliante, as other saddles were uncomfortable, some even to a point like I was riding on a steel rails. Maybe it is just me, but no flat saddle gave me comfort so far...
I really like my Brooks Cambrium C17 saddle. I rode the saddle that came with my bike for 6 years and had zero problems. Switched to a 'channel' saddle loved it, tried out my standard saddle, uncomfortable. Not to say I couldn't adjust if required, I just find the relief to be nice.
Are you familiar with a Selle Smp ? Very good saddles, with lots of science behind them for people struggling with numbness.
@SZ Wrong setup or wrong smp saddle then.
@SZ who the fuck are you ?😂
3:05 - actually, I've switched from Selle Italia to Fizik and the Fizik saddle is absolutely horrific(almost no padding but the saddle costs over 200 euros...).
I have 3 saddles and I can say for sure that the discomfort is from the saddle.
I guess I am average, my two favorite saddles are the Specialized Toupe 143mm ( which broke) and the Shimano Pro Turnix 142mm (which replaced the Specialized). Similarly designed saddles and both are super comfortable on any distance ride.
When I first started out I was recommended a Charge Spoon and instantly found it comfortable. Many years later I have spoons on all my bikes and never felt the need to try anything else. My wife and some friends also use spoons and find them great. For what they cost £20’ish I’d recommend folk just try one before going the whole fit/expensive saddle route.
Mark Smith do you get numb hands?
Bikefit James No, honestly I have them on my Road, MTB, Gravel and the bike I use for Zwift (about to go on now for 2 hours) and never had numb anything lol
This video couldn't have come at a better time, just as I'm about to go saddle shopping tomorrow.
@cade_media I can’t even get a bike fit in the city I live in (and it’s not a small city). Do any of the AI bike fitting apps work enough to get started? At least until I’m back in NYC and can schedule a bike fit.
Any specific advice for women's saddles? Beginner road rider (but have done bike touring) and can't get my head around what to get. Always had some element of numbness when touring despite having a fit before I left, but I hadn't ridden before touring so likely my position. Any advice greatly appreciated :)
Hi James & Francis, Loving the videos!
What would you suggest as a good alternative to an ISM to have on a road bike when I use one on my TT? Have tried conventional normal nosed saddles and really struggle, is there one which is similar to the ISM but a bit better suited to a road position?
Hi, what are your thoughts on smp saddles? Ive read that Steve Hogg recommends them highly. Have you had any personal experience in using them during fits?
I'll let James answer for himself.
I've actually used one fairly successfully before, it does 'lock' you in position quite aggressively though.
Comfy for steady efforts like a tt, perhaps not the best choice for fluctuating road riding.
I found the specialized Romin felt very similar but has a less aggressive curve to it so that's what I use to this day!
@@Cade_Media thanks Francis, good of you to reply. I'm using one now and do feel "locked in" , but it's not quite the revelation I was hoping for. I do like how it enables me to easily roll my pelvis forward for longer tt efforts like you say. Might have a look at the romin
I've logged 1,139 miles on the Toupe, which came with my Tarmac. I've logged 195 miles on my new Roubaix, which came with the Power saddle. Both saddles are phenomenal and would be my choice for "best", giving the slight edge to the Power due to comfort. In the end weight, color and rail material would be the deciding factor. For what it's worth... all the S-works 2020 line of bikes are coming with the Power saddle, and moving away from the Toupe.
The most difficult topic after "the right cycling shoes".
I tested 30(!!!) different saddles until I found one fitting 95% for my arse, better say my perineal. I ended up with a sqlab 612. The only saddle that has a deep enough hole, with soft edges. It's the only one I do not bend my back out to release pressure on the "soft parts". The last 5% would be there if my hamstrings would not rub under giving hard pressure onto the pedals.
I bet James would say that's excessive and there must have been issues with your fit...
@@treeman8304 things change over time, you can do many things to change your situation and/or position. things like core strenght and that. also things change over distance. riding 200k ends with other problems than doing a short 50k ride.
BUT some things just need a better treatment, especially when you visited 3 different bike fitters and none of them could solve that "special issue".
Did you try the ISM saddles?
GOD.. I WISH I had a fitter like this in my neck of the woods. I am in the market for a new saddle and LOST. Tons of great tips here tho, thanks for making this!
The best saddle I've used was the Fizik Arione but having said that not all ariones are the same. I used to have a black arione and it was the most comfortable saddle until I sold my bike while upgrading to a new bike. I got me a white arione but it wasnt as good as my previous black arione. Since then Ive tried a Selle Italia flight, wtb, a velo gel and even vintage selle san marco rolls but still nothing worked. Recently I tried a saddle that's been gathering dust in my bike parts stash for the past 4 years - a never been used $8 Sam Moanie YBT saddle made in Taiwan and lo and behold! it is by far the most comfortable saddle for my bum.
ah too late :-) I am using two Specialized Power saddles on my Gravel and Road bike. I like them very much, cured some numbness, which I experienced with the stock saddles that came with the bikes.
Are the noseless sadles likely to cause hipflexor problems? My bike came with one and I find myself automatically moving forward on the it which in turn seems to cause instability in the hips.
Excellent! Which is why I feel bike fitters with saddle pressure mapping tech is so invaluable, as it’ll help to determine or confirm the issues described. And one will save so much money to just pay for a proper bike fit than keep on trying different saddles
Do you need a cut out or not?
Do you need a cut out or a recessed Center channel?
Short or normal?
Wide?
There’s just wayyy to many variables
funnily enough when testing saddles with riders I remove my pressure mat........
@@Bikefitjames arent they suppose to sit on the pressure mat? or you find the mat to have a pressure offset that makes it inaccurate?
The one that you are comfortable with , job done
Easy for some to find!
I sit very upright with flat handlebars. Does that change my saddle recommendations?
I ride the ISM "road" and works great for me. Had these saddles for years, but don't ride on the nose unless I am in the drops. I also prefer the original design with the road on the side. The new ones feel not quite as comfortable. Any comments on this saddle? Would be interested to hear your opinion?
I too ride ISM & love it & with 10,000 miles on that saddle in 2019 I will not be trying any other saddle. Sit bone & pelvic rotation is so important. I said “sit bones” to friend that I recently got into riding & she thought I was joking. beginner cyclist never think anything about it bc they simply don’t know.
Re-watched. Liked. Recommended.
Setting up after a long time off the bike. I really liked a San Marco Rolls back in the day, aside from a bit of numbness. Selle Italia saddles always felt like riding a sharpened brick. I like a relaxed seat tube angle and to move forward and back with terrain and to shift load from quads to hamstrings. What would you recommend trying out of today’s saddles?
Just seeing this some months on. Thank you for great content. Question: did a fitting, based on width of sit bones the fitter right off wanted to change(sell me) a wider (Ergon SR) saddle. Not feeling any issue other then some crotch numbness, but my fit (and frame!) Was not right. So I should be working on everything else around the saddle first, see where we are and put less stock in pelvic width/saddle width? Thanks !!
A 162mm Brooks Cambium C17 has been my long term preference. It would suit any form of riding save for flat out racing or hill climb TT events where optimal aero efficiency or the lowest possible bike weight were critical. I also have a well worn in Brooks Swift (152mm) and a Flyer (175mm and sprung), neither has the cutout like the Cambium but the Flyer is especially comfortable, though it weighs in at almost 1kg!! No question that the C13 Carbon (158mm) DID result in recurring sores despite exhaustive tinkering to establish the correct position, angle and height. All the Fiziks and Selles I've tried have been hopeless, like sitting astride the top tube with every bump in the road feeling like a kick in the nuts. Haven't tried any of the Specializeds, though I might well have given one of the Phenoms a go had the Cambium not caught my eye first! I wish this video had been 60 minutes long!
I couldn't find the right saddle for me for a long time. Two years ago I bought cheap Chinese hard shell carbon saddle and it works for me. I just have to use a little thicker padded shorts. No more butt pain during my rides :)
Yay, more pearls of #wisdom from James!
I used to get genital numbness when in the drops or aero hood position for an extended period when racing. Pro stealth solved that for me. Now use one on MTB and gravel bikes too
What about saddles for long distance comfortable cycling or multiday bikepacking?
Can you recommend a saddle like the specialized toupe? I tried the slr and I had lots of pressure from the edges of the cutout. Is the phenom similar? Having a hard time finding the pro turnix in the us
Thanks
I had my glute removed due to a sarcoma 12 months ago and since then my saddle gives me sores.
My position was ok before and I never had any problems or discomfort. Do you think I need a new saddle or explore bike fitting again?
Great video, thanks!
Hi...any advice for me? I'm getting a new saddle cos I have a new bike which we're building (WOOP!) I've used the sella italia which has been fine but want something potentially a bit lighter. Any advice? I do quite a bit of longer distances. Thank you
Had my bike fit with James and left his shop with a pro griffon 152 mm, great saddle, but as he said it's possible you have other issues going on. 🚴♂️👍
I just stick with stock saddle provided cos I find it’s seldom the fault of the saddle really. Most of the time it’s just me fiddling with the position then finding out it’s no good. Like moving it too far forward and giving me a sore knee. Anyway great bike fit tues /thurs / any day !
Is this selle Italia any good for MTB? I'm currently using spz power.
Ok, late comment, but I need to ask, I have tried almost every kind of saddle and get numbness, sit bone bruising and sores. I now ride with a selle Italia iron flow triathlon saddle and that has given me the best relief, but just as stated "as a last ditch attempt". The problem with a fitting is that here in northern sweden the options are not great and since it seems like bike fitting is often more philosophy than science I don't feel like paying someone that feels is more capitalizing on a buzzword than driven by science (I actually think they don't know what they're talking about and just want to sell the service and unnecessary parts). So, I believe I am some kind of worst case scenario almost always adopting an aggressive position both because I like it and to sit less on my sensitive bum, having every problem you can think of regarding the actual sitting (I also have problem with a hop flexor), can't be seen by the tip-giver and won't get a fitting at this moment. So... What saddle should I try next? Thanks!
P.S I have tried to lower the saddle etc. with no luck D.S
I get James point about saddle width but I now have a 168mm Romin and its made all the difference. I might be better with a smaller one and a proper bike fit but for now its all good.
Hi Francis, What is your opinion about the new saddle
PRO Griffon Performance AF model 2021
compared to the PRO Griffon AF 2020 from this video
Sorry to use the F word gents but can I assume you are not a big fan of them ? I have a antares with a cut away . Would I bet better with a selle Italia etc ? What do fizik do wrong ?
The pro griffon is a comfy saddle I've git the 142 mm on my static trainer. My version has a relief but no cutout. The selle short fit anatomic is my favourite but not for everyone.
I have a question in regards to saddles for the Wise One. With an issue such as si joint dysfunction that results in foot numbness, cleat position and saddle height are from a relatively recent fit. Would a saddle such as the Selle Smp stabilize the si joint and pelvis to a greater degree that a standard wave type saddle. No fitter near me are willing to discuss the issue even my previous fitter.
James is always so informative. I have been having decent results with the Shimano Pro Stealth, but was wondering what he recommends for trainer season? Has he mentioned any position tweaks before? Lowering saddle, etc....? Thanks!
I lament the passing of the Selle San Marco Regale FX Saddle - a true champion of saddles. It was alessandro petacchi's favourite saddle. I still have a stash of them :-)
Question: is there any real successor to the San Marco Rolls? Meaning a saddle that is maybe a bit less wide but will fit an arse (like mine) the same as a Rolls?
Many thanks in advance, and love the channel btw - keep up the good work 👍👍
Does saddle affects balance? I mean wt loading infront. I felt that pelvic tilt which causes impingement on my wrist is bec my saddle cant hold my pelvis into place...
I have struggled to ride any road saddle without about a 5 degree down tilt. I realize this causes weight shifting forward and recognize the symptoms this causes (shoulder/knee/hands) but the alternative is bad soft tissue discomfort or lower back pain. I ride with my pelvis tilted forward to keep my lower back straight. I’ve tried to lower the saddle but the pressure is still there when rotated forward. If I get it low enough to alleviate the soft tissue it feels like my knees are barely extended. My fitting experience has been dreadful with fitters setting saddle height ranging from too high to way too high. As such I just don’t even consider another fitting. Any help would be appreciated.
Did you mention the saddle that has proved itself for over 140yrs and is still sought by thousands? A saddle that depended on design, quality and adaptability? If you did, I missed it. I refer, of course to the inimitable B17
I have to say, this is the most informative video on saddles I have ever seen, especially the bit about ‘it isn’t the saddle, it’s the way we sit on it’. Never heard that before. I get discomfort on my left sit bone, tried loads of saddles, so what can I do about that? Currently riding a mimic,girly saddle,but also have a toupe. Should I go back to the toupe?
Huge fan, love the TH-cam adventures and thanks for the bike fit series videos.
Would love to hear James take on using a road bike with aero bars and provide his thoughts on saddle and positioning.
I ride a 2020 Trek Domane SL6 and have installed Redshift removable aero bars with (2) spacers. Love the additional hand position and see that most ultra endurance racers used aero bars to relieve their wrists.
I use a cheap $20 Walmart saddle that has just work, the problem with my new setup is that around mile 60-70 of my long rides I start getting pressure that typically I would not get until mile 80-90 of a typical long ride.
Hope the topic of road bikes with aero bars becomes a topic of a future episode of Bikefit Tuesday
I ride a newer Roubaix which has a more upright endurance geometry. I have a recurring saddle sole on my right sit bone that’s driving me crazy. I have a very badly damaged left ankle with limited movement, but I’ve been riding a road bike since my accident in the mid eighties. I have never experienced saddle sores in the past on my faithful Italian Bottecchia with its Selle San Marco saddle. I dig this new carbon bike with its Future Shock and all, but can you think of a good cause for these saddle sores.
Great, honest video as always
Okey, let's say I've got the right saddle.
1.- What about the right fore/aft (seat post and everything) position? And..
2.- Is it more important than stem/handlebar reach?
I've been contemplating the same things, but James basically answered my questions indirectly in this video. I've surmised that my frame is slightly too big.
Unfortunately can relate with this issues. I´m having saddle sore only on the left side; the right knee, at the top of the pedal stroke gets closer to the top tube than the left; genitals numbness.
Found this videos a couple days ago, and they are being very helpful. Been thinking it was a saddle problem, but I was wrong, i actually ride a montrose.
I´ve been looking to do a bike fit, won´t postpone it any longer.
Many thanks to both of you
I have been using a Bontrager Montrose saddle for a year now and still after approximately an hour to an hour and a half my sit bones start to become sore. Any ideas on how this issue can be improved or eliminated?
My skin between ass cheek and thighs (mostly on right leg side) gets irritated/sore after 2 out of 3 rides. I've tried Synchros RR2.5 (135mm/290mm), Specialized Power (143), Specialized Power ARC Expert (143) and Prologo K3. Sit bones width measured to 116 mm at a bikefitter. It seems like it appears more often when riding hard than not.
Got any suggestions to avoid getting this irritation/sore?
in terms of saddle, not sure if you can help, i get genital numbness after about 1o minutes on the trainer, on the road probably after 20 mins , i'm 6st2, 86kgs, long legs short torso and long arms, so i end to be more upright when riding, mainly as i'm 45 and prefer comfort over aero, i do tend to slide forward and back on the saddle to alleviate pressure, but dont get sores or excessive saddle discomfort, it just numbness, tried 6 saddles so far , is it more of a cutout needed for pressure, or is it likely to be a wider saddle or bike fit needed , currently on a selle italia supra, its tolerable but over an hour on trainer needs serious distraction techniques , any help greatly appreciated
I cannot believe that there was no Selle SMP was on the table!
After 35 years of riding with various levels of pain...ALL pain and discomfort disappeared overnight when I tried a heavy, ugly but VERY comfortable Selle Anatomica saddle with center cutout. It's been four years now and it is still "disappears beneath me". So how about leather saddles in general and can something similar be made that looks more modern and weighs a LOT less? Thanks!!
Brooks Cambium is an interesting saddle to fit, or any other saddle that flexes. Gotta account for the flex in finding the saddle height
I think the Fabric brand saddles work on the same principle as the Brooks Cambium, although with a thin-ish plastic base instead of rubber.
Can you do an updated version?
Xc mountain biking is very different in terms of what would make a good saddle and I have never seen any videos regarding that for so I would love to see it!
I will like to see a video in which James and the guys from Attacus discuss how different types of chamois will affect the comfort in the saddle. It might sound simple but I have a tried different types from more cushion to less trying to find the best combination. I believe that less is more as the more cushion chamois tend to create more abrasions. What do you guys use in the Vietnam and the US trip and what do you recommend.
I find the Romin more comfortable than the Toupe (style) due to the tail kick-up which seems to keep me centered on the saddle while climbing. Is this likely due to a fitting issue or am I just putting down so much power that a flat saddle can't constrain me?
What if you use aero bars, and your bits are being slowly being destroyed because you are sitting on the tip of the saddle when using the aerobars? Is there a saddle that's a balance between a regular style and tt style saddle?