This video was originally just a side project made for fun, but it ended up being one of the funnest videos I've ever made, so there's totally plans for more like this :p The Chris Terrio interview I kept referencing: www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2021/04/chris-terrio-justice-league-batman-v-superman
where did you read the stan lee run of spider-man I've read a few but I'd love to read more also your videos are great and well put together. also, I know this was off topic of the video.
@@cooperchappell8310 that's alright, it's always awesome whenever brings up Stan Lee, I read the first 5 Marvel essentials trades which are like phone book sized black and white reprints, they're also often super cheap on ebay!
ur video is kinda BS .this batman is not batman this is garbage .snyder made batman kill and said when the martha scene happened he explained he saw joe chill in him but he didnt change from that murderous BS he just joe chilled another 20 men with the bat plane in next scene trying to save martha . this batman is dumb and stupid asf .he doesnt have contingency plans he ressurected superman without a plan thats not batman . he shoots a guy's fire tank just to kill him endangering martha and his self like a moron .he could have shoot him in the head cuz he did that 5 minutes ago .
I just found it really hard to believe that the Joker would survive in a world where Batman brutally kills criminals instead of handing them over to the GCPD.
@@freakingreninja7790 Well the Joker evidently killed Robin so if there’s any criminal that Batman would kill first, it’s be the Joker. And by the time the events of BVS take place, Joker should be long gone.
@@AstonishingRed well no you really haven't gotten the point. Yeah joker would be the one in Batman's kill list but superman was literally his first priority, we literally see his pov of metropolis destruction and how that influences him into killing superman his first most important priority and he basically gets addicted? Into doing that thing that he doesn't realise his mistakes.
@@freakingreninja7790 I mean, I get that. I do. The movie is call BVS not BVJ. But the fact that the Joker is STILL alive in that universe is the thing that’s hard to believe.
“It was me Barry, I was the Warner Bros executive that pushed for “Batman v Superman” to be dark. I knew it would be hated by critics and audiences so much that it would delay your movie for years” - Reverse-Flash
@@octosalias5785 I know. One of the reasons I have a love/hate relationship with meme culture. It can lighten your mood and create great stuff but also it can destroy great things
One of the scenes of batman that I don't see too many people bring up with regards to his redemption is the scene where instead of simply fighting superman in the snyder cut when superman returns he tries to....reason with him...with words. The same way superman tried to reason with batman during their first fight but batman didn't listen and simply proceeded to fight him without hearing him out. I love that soo much and I wish more people talked about it.
Frankly, how Batman was handled is one if the least of my concerns with the DCEU. What bothers me about it is that no matter what they tried to do, it didn't work (for various reasons, one being that Snyder is unable to use symbolism effectively because he makes movies consisting of moments more than arcs another being the self-important tone of the whole thing), and that the character they depicted on screen is an unsympathetic douchebag pushing a very toxic message, never mind HOW he is called.
@@swanpride Yeah. As long as they make it good I don't care. That is why I don't care how comic accurate something is. Some core elements should be there (like Batman needs to be Bat themes or Spiderman should shoot webs), but as long as what they create is good it can be different from the comics. These aren't direct adaptations. They are new versions of the characters. Do whatever you want as long as you make it good. Batman can kill if you tell an interesting story with it and make him a good character. Snyder did not do that. Like you said his character is just a murderous douchebag
this is worst batman after Clooney .even the fact that the whole cringe awful Martha scene happened cuz the world's greatest detective forgot to do the usual background check on the enemy he was aboutta fight was so frustrating and laughably bad
I feel they did a good job at portraying Batman as a villain, my problem is more with DCEU's Superman, at least in BVS they should have made a better job at making him the actual hero of the story we spend so much time with Batman and Luthor while Clark isn't doing much.
@@sohansahoo4203 fleshes out my behind too .wtf is wrong with u kids ? watch more movies .superman trying to stop the killing batman as hes always stop shit with killing is so stupid 🤡
Ben Affleck's Batman needs a full redemption arch, like a movie where he'd get a lot more space, cause he potential is huge (coming from a guy who hated Ben Affleck a lot before DCEU) I would love to see him in a movie for the last time...
i mean we kinda saw that in ZSJL right? He’s gone from a vengeance filled broken persona to someone who put his faith in Superman over everything. It’s even shown visually through how he wakes up in his bed: In BvS he wakes up to darkness, a random woman in his bed, drinking, and taking pills, while in ZSJL he wakes up to light, no drinking or anything, followed by Martian Manhunter’s line “They couldn’t have done it without you Bruce. Your mother and father would be proud” conveying that he’s been redeemed from how he was in BvS
this is worst batman after Clooney .even the fact that the whole cringe awful Martha scene happened cuz the world's greatest detective forgot to do the usual background check on the enemy he was aboutta fight was so frustrating and laughably bad
@@herloss448 He didn't care about that. It's the point of the movie. He's not a detective anymore. That's why he and Alfred make references to war. He's given up on crime fighting ("criminals are like weeds, Alfred"). Your criticism isn't an honest take on the story and his arc which is: he's fallen.
"Chalk all that up to stress.." dude that press tour was so bad. Snyder looked so exhausted. I remember in another interview he's leaning to the side while answering questions. Makes me sad because so many people dogpiled him, including me, while taking on this huge task of making this franchise work. I'm glad Snyder is looking better.
They tortured him basically even had people spy on him and used his daughter's death as a cover up to firing him wb is messed up treating him badly is an understatement he didn't deserve it
It really is just horrifying how people were so eager to use Autumn's death to continue bashing him too. And they have the fucking audacity to claim themselves as Superman fans.
@@ginichilders9619 right like the disrespect is real they say all this stuff about Zack and make fun of his daughter yet they don't see their own actions that's so messed up Superman would be disappointed with the way they treat him or each other they say they know Superman yet Superman would tell them to stop doing that
@@elishawilson5342 indeed. I recently saw this meme comic on Twitter that illustrates the hypocrisy perfectly - the purist fanboy says the 1978 movie inspired him to be a better person, and then when someone who likes the DCEU take comes in and says the movies gave them hope and helped them during a tough time in their life, the purist famboy flies off the handle and viciously bashes the DCEU Superman fan as just some "stupid Snyder cultist". It really sucks ass. I love Superman; he's one of my favorite fictional characters in general, and I do love the DCEU take on him even though I can admit it has some faults in its execution. But good lord, I HATE being a Superman fan because of those people.
Yo!!! Whenever you’re available and/or up for it, I’d love to hear your take on the Batman Audio Adventures from HBO Max. If you don’t have an account, the first two episodes are free on TH-cam. The story is really good and the climax in episode 10 is a very interesting take on the dynamic between the Joker and Batman and what it means to identify yourself and create your own narrative. I think it’s really good, but fair warning it’s like 98 percent audio and 2 percent visuals. Other than that, though, I think it really stands well as an interesting story. Jumps a bit from place to place, but still interesting lol
this is worst batman after Clooney .even the fact that the whole cringe awful Martha scene happened cuz the world's greatest detective forgot to do the usual background check on the enemy he was aboutta fight was so frustrating and laughably bad
Thank you for this. While agree that Snyder's DCEU films are flawed films.( As are most SH films.). And Snyder has a tendency to over do somethings in his films, especially violence. But I truly believe that Snyder was trying to do some thing different with his films. He presented us with deeply flawed heroes in a deeply flawed world, and showed us their journeys to bieng the heroes they need to be. And despite the flaws and Snyder's tendencies, that message does come out. And people are starting to see it more clearly after ZSJL. Now that people have seen Snyder's full plan, they are going back and appreciating Snyder's take. I'm seeing more and more video essays like this on MoS and BvS. And I truly believe that in the near future, 10 or 20 years maybe, Zack Snyder's trilogy as it exists now, will be looked back on much more fondly then the way it was seen at the time of release.
He doesnt overdo violence he uses violence as a critique on violence in films itself. Not too different to what Tarantino does in his films. The shock value and over-the-top is the point. While other Comicbook films solve their problems with violence, in snyders comicbook films the violence becomes the problem itself. Accept for that, I agree on everyting else u wrote
@@MarkFilipAnthony I think he really only came close to overdoing it in 300, and even then, you can't really make that type of war less violent than it actually was
this is worst batman after Clooney .even the fact that the whole cringe awful Martha scene happened cuz the world's greatest detective forgot to do the usual background check on the enemy he was aboutta fight was so frustrating and laughably bad
@@herloss448 Batfleck was great. Only behind Bale. And the reason he didn't know about Superman's mother was because he did not know who Superman was. The fact that you missed such a clear and obvious plot point is laughably stupid.
this is worst batman after Clooney .even the fact that the whole cringe awful Martha scene happened cuz the world's greatest detective forgot to do the usual background check on the enemy he was aboutta fight was so frustrating and laughably bad
“Disciple”, your utterance of the word, and your comparison of the closing shots of Bruce in BVS with the opening shot of him in the Snyder Cut crystallized the Pauline allegory with Bruce. Many thanks.
Damn straight. I knew I wasn't the only one who saw Snyder's Batman as bearing some similarities to the apostle Paul. He starts off against the Christ like figure but, once its true nature is revealed to him, he then serves it to atone for his misdeeds.
Snyder was actually technically right when he referenced "The Dark knight Returns". In that story Frank Miller wanted to showcase Batman's hypocrisy, the fact that he is a killer in denial. In that comic Batman does indeed kill but in very subtle ways because it's from his POV. For example, when he fought the Joker he didn't just paralyzed him by twisting his neck.. he completely snapped it and killed him. Their conversations after that was all in Batman's head, it's hinted with the color of the speech bubbles. People saw that and called him a killer but Batman was again in denial and replied with "I wish I was" with a very guilty looking face. He was just making up excuses like in the movie. And that's basically the inspiration for Batman's arc in BvS.
It’s a cool interpretation but no. Batman may have killed joker but he’s definitely not a killer throughout the story and the story isn’t exclusively told from his pov
@@mero7731 What about the junkyard scene? Even if it's rubber bullets, these _can_ actually kill; especially so when fired from a high caliber tank machine gun. And then there's the explosions. I don't think it's ever mentioned what he uses for that, but it's certainly killing people left and right.
@@fernandoerbin6751 ok so later on in the story when they are listing why he is wanted and one of those is murder. It is a surprise to most people even the cops. If Bruce kill a bunch of mutants in the junkyard, it probably would’ve been mentioned. Also a 200 pound man of muscle punching criminals in the face can also kill, rubber bullets is just a way for writers to write it off.
I thank you for your video on this topic. I've long believed that this Batman is truly one of the greatest interpretations of the dark knight as he's truly fallen.
Great analysis as always. The DCEU and especially Snyder's films are clunky, bold and messy. But there is a certain beauty to many of them that goes unrespresented in the discussions of film analysis culture and it's a shame, which is why I'm glad people are revisiting the work to present more honest and thorough perspectives on it. One little nitpick tho: It's actually implied twice in TDKR that Batman kills. One with a mutant gangmember and the other with Joker. Snyder while not being the most articulate or straightforward of people, is not an idiot. Terrio and Snyder were both on the same wavelength with what they wanted. If not, Snyder would have had someone write the screenplay like Goyer again or something. Either way, these interpretations of the characters are interesting and I hope WB and DC continue to let these characters explore, contradict and grow. It's fresh in the world of superhero cinema.
I've been saying this since the movie BvS came out. You're not supposed to agree with Bruce because he's very obviously presented as the antagonist in the film. It blows my mind other people have so much trouble recognizing that. This is a sequel to Man of Steel, so Supes is the hero of the story. Edit: I love that I posted this partway through the video and almost immediately after I posted, he said the same thing 😅
@@swanpride Really, because the first shot of Ben as Batman in the movie that I remember was almost horror like with him appearing as this menacing thing on the wall. Definitely did not look like a good guy. And similarly throughout the movie Bruce is potrayed as this angry, frustrated borderline manic guy reliant on drugs and alchohol. When you compare that to Superman, he definitely does not look good. And I think Snyder handled Watchmen quite well.
@@swanpride The cross fit scene was less about bieng cool and more about showing Bruce's will and determination. And anyway, he's Batman. They have to his physicality. And theirs nothing inherently heroic about a training montage. Villains get them too, in films.
I can at least see what Snyder was trying to do with Batman. This "old fallen hero who finds his way again". That being said, that's too big of a story for a film series that's never solely focused on Batman. Snyder is focusing on so many things at once that (unless the movie is ridiculously long) a lot of them are gonna seem underdeveloped.
acting like Batman just killed for the sake of edgyness, that he didn’t have an arch shows some didn’t really pay attention to the film. It’s a blessing that you pointed this out.
lol he didnt have development kiddo .watch more movies .the excution is terrible bcuz snyder isnt a good director .he didnt even have enough morals kill superman .and the so called development u whining about should ve happened in martha scene but it didnt happen as batfake just mag dumped another 20 ppl with bat plane in next scene .the whole thing with batman killing ppl so fooking stupid .its okay if he faces consequences after
@@herloss448 I wasn't whining, I was saying my joys for someone actually watching the movie. besides, his development did happen. he refused to kill Superman so he changed. and even if he killed criminals after, he refused to kill Lex in the end. character archs take time. he had consequence, people he branded got killed in jail and their kids were orphaned. also don't call Zack a bad director for writing choices, when he didn't write it. I urge you to watch the movie again, and the video, it said Batsy had consequences and changed his mind. just because many hate it, doesn't mean you can't look at it in a different perspective.
@@k1ttkw1snky69 what consequences he faced none for all his murdered, and yes I watched the video, and it just tells us what was intended by the screen writer and how that didn't line up with what the studio wanted along with Snyder's poor execution, and statements not in line with what terrio said, Snyder wanted batman to kill in a cool fashion, Chris' terrio actually thought about character arc, that went into Justice League, because as cool as the warehouse scene is, it still shows him ruthlessly killing thugs, even that 1 thug who stabbed him and was singled out in the scene near the end shows that this batman didn't take much from sparing superman and having Martha PTSD.
@@KwabzModding Zack still let the story show Batman changed even if he wanted him to kill, not just because it's cool, but because it fit the story. just because Batsy didn't go, "I'm not a killer anymore" instantly after changing his mind about Superman specifically is not poor execution. if anything it's realistic. like I said, character archs can take time. after the warehouse rampage he refused to kill Lex. he changed his mind about Superman, then he changed his mind about killing criminals. slow archs are not always needed, but not always bad. Also he did face consequences, people died in jail because of him, I don’t know what you mean by he didn’t have any. Did you watch the directors cut?
Ironically the movie is partially about what harm blinded hatred can cause. And the people against the movie don't get that because they don't even want to understand the thing.
I will be honest I really enjoyed this batman arc because it's a broken man moving on from fear, from pain showing that he is doing what he does on faith and becoming the batman I know and was happy to see when the snyder cut came out a good leader, a man with plan after plan, a badass, a league and most importantly a good man and a great hero. He started off as a broken man who lost his ways but found it in someone who always had hope even when superman lost alot he never lost his light, he always had hope and was never going to bow down to the darkness is what I felt made batman enjoyed his friendship with Clark that he always had that light and hope and love sense of being happy with his family no matter what others say about him that you can blame him for alot of destruction and chaos and try to make him go bad but has the will to never lose the light.
This video was a masterpiece. Thank you. Gave me a lot of insight into me of my favorite characters in the latest incarnation and showed how much there is to appreciate. Just might have to make my own video. Much love man
The problem I have with him killing is that it doesn't exactly make sense. If Batman is gonna kill then Joker must not be alive. If Batman is willing to go down this road, then this needs to front and center, something that Alfred talks about from time and time again, trying to pull him into the light instead of complete darkness. I like themes what this movie was trying to accomplish, but the very issues lies in the fact that this is Batman first appearance in the Snyder universe, this is Superman second appearance in the Snyder universe. If we're gonna have these titans clash, these two individual learn and grown to the end of the movie, then we need some extra semblance of time with these characters. One movie can not dissect why Batman kills since part of the movie is dedicated to Superman and his arc of being an alien in a world who's paranoid by his powers. One movie can not dissect Superman's arc of being hopeful no matter when things seems hopeless. Because you also have Batman as the front and center while also having wonder woman, Lex, and doomsday. The very issue is that bvs does too much in one movie, and it's accomplishments to these arcs while fulfilled, feels hollowed in my eyes because we didn't get the time we needed for these characters. To truly understand there world, there mindset of what their purpose is as of that moment, and why they need to better for a better world. Because I really love Snyder version of the justice league, I felt everyone who worked on this version put more love and effort compare to the two previous movies before it. It to me felt like a comic book coming to life in front of my face that I only get occasionally with other super hero movies. I specifically wish we had more development for Batman and Superman so when they do clash, when Batman chooses to be better after Superman's death, it means alot and its powerful then hollow. But I can only dream.
Yes absolutely. That's one of the annoying things about this Batman as they don't follow through all the logical consequences that they're change implies. If we have a Batman who kills, then Arkham is only going to have villains who don't kill people. The rest will be in the grave. And since you would have to include all of their hint people, this would be a Batman who has literally killed hundreds of people. Which almost certainly means he's killed one or two innocent people. This wasn't the Batman I grew up with in red for over 20 years. It just shows bad or biased writing can ruin any character. And the only way to deal with it is to walk away. Which I did after BvS. Love the DCA but do not watch the DC live action movies.
@@macmcleod1188 again pay attention to the film first. He didn't start killing for the sake of killing. He just stopped caring about the no kill rule after the death of dick grayson. He did beat the crap out of the joker and knocked all his teeth out which is why he has the grill in suicide squad. He's also branding criminals because they can't redeem themselves anymore. This is just an old batman who's losing his way because a batman without a family is a dangerous batman.
@@NiRvAnA6890 Doesn't matter. Happy to pay for suicide squad by Gunn. Not giving a dime to anything related to snyder or other dystopic movies that make batman or superman murderers.
@@NiRvAnA6890 again, look at what I explained. One movie is not enough to tell a batman who lost his way. Yes, the tid bits litter through batman v superman and suicide squad is there, but those are so far in between when those two movie had alot more to juggle around. If they have done a batman movie that led to batman v superman, one that dives deep into the head space of Bruce and all the things he been through, then it would be justifiable to see a batman lose his way. But again, batman v superman had too much to juggle to tell that specific story
Not watching it again (the Ultimate CUt that is) would be a huge mistake. Snyder's films always profit from rewatches. Just take the film for what it actually IS and not for what you want it to be.
this is worst batman after Clooney .even the fact that the whole cringe awful Martha scene happened cuz the world's greatest detective forgot to do the usual background check on the enemy he was aboutta fight was so frustrating and laughably bad
I think people complain about the BvS being too dark because they can feel that something is wrong with the movie and think tone might be the answer. I didn't find BvS all that darker from the Nolan trilogy. Quite simply, the plot is convoluted and contrived along with moments that are just nonsensical.
It's really nice to see what I consider a more major essay channel address this, instead of the usual "BATMAN DOESN'T KILL WAHHH" shit that we usually get. I hate to sound pretentious but I genuinely believe most viewers just don't understand this movie and arc, and you can tell by the arguments you hear against it. While I love Zack, he does muddy the waters at times with his direction and comments. But I think most people's frustrations with this movie are fixed by paying attention to the Ultimate Edition, general audiences seem to not read metaphors or symbolism very well or at least not on first viewing.
It's not pretentious to say they don't get the intent of the movie and the arc. It's a fact. It's a combination of hype, rage when said hype was subverted and the theatrical cut fucking up the story cohesion. People spend too much time fixated on complaining about what the story isn't that they rarely pay attention into what it is
No plenty of people understood it just fine. The execution of it was terrible. Even the ultimate edition is bad. It is fine if you like these movies, but people aren't criticizing it just because they didn't get it.
@@tuffdude7795 Based on the things people take issue with, I disagree. So my guess by your tone is that you didn't. Would be interested in your explanation of how it wasn't executed properly so I can understand.
@@waxilliamladrian The arc described is barely shown. This Batman mows people down in his Batmobile and the shot is framed as cool instead of horrific. After he decides not to kill Superman he still kills people. We get a shot of Robin's costume, but it seems to have happened quite a while ago. The Martha line was ridiculous. Batman has killed people before, so him having a mom shouldn't stop him from killing him. Also it makes no sense that Superman says save Martha instead of save my mom. They didn't properly explore what Batman killing is like. They framed many of his kill shots as cool looking.
@@tuffdude7795 No that's exactly why they are criticizing them. Because the vast majority of criticism, either ascribes a wrong intent into the movie, makes points against the film that are contradicted by the film itself(supposed "plot holes" that the film actually explains if you pay attention) or both
Quite the video, just have to say a few things, with the Bat branding, it is not as though he is dooming them to die, Lex has a hand in that with hiring thugs to take out certain people, Batman does it so they remember he is watching them, when it is more likely just a scare tactic to keep them behaved, not paying attention, even with Clark questioning Batman’s tactics Bruce said “Don’t believe everything you hear son.” And as for the killing casually, i would not say casually anymore than other live action batmen doing that which is more man slaughter than anything else. For the DKR, it is referencing the comic where it shows Batman shooting the mutant which looks like he died from the bullet, where as Batfleck shooting the tank Zack said that it would have gone too far for Batman to just kill him after everything that’s happened.
Eventhough people hated the famous "Martha" scene, I kind of see that it somewhat fit. For me, it would have been a lot BETTER if just after the word martha Batman had the flashback when his parents were killed, first a zoom at the gun with the trigger being pulled up, THEN to the face of the villian who pulled the trigger, but this time we see the adult batman, himself (face clean, without the mask), Face of a really stressed but angry man, then a zoom out of him(batman) with the gun on his hand; then the flashback ends and then continue the scene and the rest of the movie. Maybe a little couple of changes here and there (LOL I don´t remember the exact details of the movie). But anyways, It wasn´t like that. Sadly, the movie matched with my low expectations... but I really enjoy it because I didn´t expect much LOL XD; suck for the people complaining how bad the movie is but I just laught at them XD.
I feel like using "Martha" as a trigger word was too weak. I do feel think the idea of Superman calling his mother's name, or anything that would have resembled that would have been perfect turning point for Batman, but using simply his mother's name isn't strong enough to warrant a full change(In my opinion). I think making him cry in a way that seems childlike or something more drastic than calling a name would have resolved my issues for that scene.
@@응가바보-j7k I totally agree with that. The base idea is good but it really needed more emotion, a couple of sentences and also , at the very minimum, a tear from superman's eyes... So Batman at that moment could like see he is killing at a cold blooded level.... But what you said sounds alright I guess.
@@fernandouseodysee5027 What would have been really impactful if Sups Said "Mom, Save my Mother please" But instead of ending it there Batman is still gonna Go through with killing Clark until Alfred Shows up to stop him or automatically Stops his Suit and talks him out of it saying something along the lines of "would your Parents approve of you for Taking a Son away from his Mother, would Robin, would Your Mother Martha, this isn't about saving the World Bruce, this is your personal vendetta against an Innocent Man" (maybe even kill your darlings and Alfred just looks at him in horror or disappointment)
I think we can all see the intended deeper meaning and thought process, I just think a lot of us can also see it didn't properly display that deeper meaning.
you have no idea how much i have been waiting for YOU to do this video i hope the controversy isn't that much, cus now a days the name of Affleck batman is just enough to cause controversy
Apparently, in the dark knight rises comic, Batman killed a lot and was a hypocrite. Like people often show that one picture where he breaks a gun but not other pictures where he kills. Or at least possibly did. But that’s just what I heard.
i love your videos bro i always watch em and i can see how much effort you put into each video. I'll always watch your videos so please keep them coming :)
to be fair in Dark Knight Returns he does shoot someone in between the eyes and it's also heavily implied that he killed the Joker. Things the movie didn't show.
I’m glad snyder can have love and people like him as he was a really good Batman but in my opinion they needed to show his breaking point before jumping into things
It's also important to note Snyder didn't do these decisions with that in mind, he made these decisions purely because he thinks it's cooler and "more realistic" and that batman having a no killing rule is a "fantasy world"
Your videos have given me a new appreciation for Batman v Superman. I used to hate the movie. I still think it's kind of clunkily done, but much like the Star Wars prequels I can appreciate what the director Zack Snyder was trying to do even if he didn't quite stick The Landing
this is worst batman after Clooney .even the fact that the whole cringe awful Martha scene happened cuz the world's greatest detective forgot to do the usual background check on the enemy he was aboutta fight was so frustrating and laughably bad
Dude - right on the money. The cut up version didn’t help anyone. But once you’ve the extended version, it is crystal clear. He has a huge arc. The movie never defends his killing. You can disagree, but THAT’S THE POINT. You can still have issues with it, but so many people criticize what the point of the story was. Batman has got some serious issues. When he lets Superman die - he realizes he has to do better.
I’ve said it once or twice before and I’ll say it again. BvS should have been a standalone Batman film. Batfleck was easily the highlight. I’d have rather Snyder made one instead of jumping straight into what should have been the 4th or 5th DCEU movie after Wonder Woman and an MoS sequel.
@@Spiderstan2000 For sure. He killed it in the role. It was such a waste he never got his own solo flick. It’s never too late for HBO Max/DC to continue the Snyderverse but we’ll see. At least we’ll see him in The Flash.
this is worst batman after Clooney .even the fact that the whole cringe awful Martha scene happened cuz the world's greatest detective forgot to do the usual background check on the enemy he was aboutta fight was so frustrating and laughably bad
This was great. Except that Batman does kill in the Dark Knight Returns. He kills the Joker and in the comic inspiration for the scene where he saves Martha he kills the guy by shooting him. Synder actually toned that down by just having him light the gas on fire.
Your point about Snyder misrepresenting The Dark Knight Returns is actually false: Batman kills quite alot in the Comic. Yes, he demonizes guns in two scenes, but he also USES guns in multiple other scenes. He shoots the Mutant threatening a baby, uses hagrapling gun that looks suspiciosly like a rifle (that's on purpose), and shoots a gun after killing the Joker (yes, he killed Joker. Look up the theory about Jokers grey speech-bubbles. Only Batman's thought-bubbles are grey, he is imagining Joker to still be alive because he is in denial). He also uses his tank to shoot up and blow the shit out of the mutants... Do people really think no one died there? It's all about Batman being in complete denial about what he is actually doing. He is an old, hypocritical man in the comic. It also holds a mirror in the face of the readers, with many of them being perfectly fine to ignore the violence and believe the lie that Batman didn't kill anyone. It's quite brilliant actually.
Bingo. There's alot of misinterpretation, and frankly, taking of the wrong things, from TDKR. Bruce in that story is delusional about himself in relation to the legend that is "The Batman". He's bought into his own hype, and is getting a reality check.
damn u really need to read comics .so blind bruh .nobody cares about batman killing if the batman acts like not batman ,this batman is one of the stupidest ones ever .he doesn't have contingency plans or detective skills or anything .even the fact he seeing superman sacrificing and stopped killing is so childish and it should ve happened in martha scene but it didnt happen .case closed
this is worst batman after Clooney .even the fact that the whole cringe awful Martha scene happened cuz the world's greatest detective forgot to do the usual background check on the enemy he was aboutta fight was so frustrating and laughably bad
Great video and lots of great points. I personally think part of the reason Batman's arc fell a bit short was because there was a fundamental misunderstand of him on WB part because as the Dark Knights Joker puts it best "you are truly uncurable force" therefore having this batman who kills and uses guns shows WB huge misunderstand of how Batman works and how he truly is.
cool video as always. i disliked dceu batman before mosty because it was the popular opinion, but with the release of zsjl, i learned to appreciate the arc of this interpretation of the character
Yeah that was my general experience, I still disagree with some of the decisions, but I dig how the broader arc acknowledged used those disagreements to tell a story
what perspective ?damn u really need to read comics .so blind bruh .nobody cares about batman killing if the batman acts like not batman ,this batman is one of the stupidest ones ever .he doesn't have contingency plans or detective skills or anything .even the fact he seeing superman sacrificing and stopped killing is so childish and it should ve happened in martha scene but it didnt happen .case closed
this is worst batman after Clooney .even the fact that the whole cringe awful Martha scene happened cuz the world's greatest detective forgot to do the usual background check on the enemy he was aboutta fight was so frustrating and laughably bad
@@herloss448 I've noticed a pattern of obsession in your posts. Rather than participating in a thoughtful conversation you just keep repeating the same nonsense. There is help available and I hope you are getting the treatment you need.
Yes, but that's not public knowledge, for all people care, if you get the brand, you get killed, sort of like how in real life, sex offenders can get snitched the moment they get to prison, and other inmates take them out.
Great video. Nailed it! I have always loved the DCEU Batman and thought he worked as a character until the warehouse scene and I thought it was awkward how he went from that to the great continuation of his ark in Justice League but now after watching this video it does make more sense.
To the souls who are wondering what the name of the song at: 9:43 is but their questions gone unanswered, fear not! Name of the song is: Sunrise Sunset by Duplex Heart.
Whereas I don't think there *was* a Batman character in BvS or JL. There was nothing to misunderstand: just empty suits punching each other in the rain.
misunderstood ? wtf u on about ?hes a garbage batman who broke his morals bcuz robin died lol.hes one of stupidest batman ever .hes not a detective lois lane doing detective shit better than him in this hack universe .he doesn't have plans .a batman who saw joe chill in him and realized hes becoming joe chill and then he joe chilled another 20 ppl with the bat plane in next scene .u guys are blind
@@freakingreninja7790 its not a opinion .none of the things i said arent wrong so these are facts and i have watched every snyder explaining his movie vids.u should use ur brain more before blindly imagine some BS
@@herloss448 well they are your opinion, it's how you see those movies and those characters, that's your perspective, your way of seeing. Opinions are not facts man. And why are you soo angry that someone thinks I'm a different way than you do like what? Are you okay? It's like you seem soo hurt that some random dude on internet thinks a different way about batman than you do and now it's personal for you, let people have their opinions man it won't end the fucking world
ppl keep comparing this to what marvel did Superman Arc is a part 5 series that introduces the league. We only got 3 parts of the story. BVS is MOS part 2 and ZSJL is part 3.
Dude, I watch everything you do -- as long as -- I've seen the underlying thing you are analyzing. lately I have been watching less, cause there's been Invincible and Batman cartoon. I'm not saying don't do that, but perhaps your other watchers have the same experience? Don't know, just asking. From my POV, I love your work, I learn a bunch from it, please keep going.
Imo it’d have hit way less. Like bruh who Tf would go ‘save my mum’ to appeal to someone? They don’t even have a name to go off of. And how old is Superman, 12? Who still calls their mum ‘mum’ as an adult?
@@ohyeahitsthatguy9454 I question what world you live in where your mom stops being your mom because you aren't a kid anymore. Literally every adult I've known throughout calls their mother "mom" and the ones who called them by their names did as a sign of disrespect
@@ReaperBlaze76 I guess it’s just how people are brought up. It’s not that unusual over here. But still if we ignore that just saying ‘my mum’ would neither give Batman a name to search for nor a reason to care about Superman’s mum. Clark Kent’s a journalist, who just found out about Bruce Wayne like a few weeks ago. I wouldn’t put it past him to know of the famous story of Wayne’s orphaning. Maybe he used the coincidental naming to appeal to Bruce knowing it would get a reaction. Which it does, to be fair. But yeah, of course my mum is still my mum. But why do I have to keep calling her ‘mum’? She has a name.
@@ohyeahitsthatguy9454 No it had nothing to do with the fact he knew who Bruce Wayne was, I swear you fanboys do nothing but make excuses for every dumb thing he does. Superman saying Martha doesn't make sense, regardless of how you try to justify it, people calling their parents by their name isn't a normal thing and it's not something Superman was ever shown doing prior.
damn u really need to read comics .so blind bruh .nobody cares about batman killing if the batman acts like not batman ,this batman is one of the stupidest ones ever .he doesn't have contingency plans or detective skills or anything .even the fact he seeing superman sacrificing and stopped killing is so childish and it should ve happened in martha scene but it didnt happen .case closed
A trilogy about a Batman who kills and then finds redemption is a greaqt idea. One movie which was an excuse for blowing stuff up as Zack clearly didn't intend any of what you said and just did it because he thought "Batman kills all the time", completely sucks
@@ImplicitlyPretentious - yeah, that’s kind of common with Snyder’s body of work (even with the scripts he writes, tbh). The obvious example would be to look at the way he presents Watchmen as a slick, stylish, gleefully violent superhero flick, but if you were to go right back to the beginning and read James Gunn’s screenplay for Dawn of the Dead, it actually has a less flippant tone to it than the final film exhibits. Maybe Zack Snyder is just the Eric Morecombe of directors; he plays all the right notes, just not necessarily in the right order.
@@ImplicitlyPretentious That's simply not true. Terrio has said that he and Snyder together fought to have him have a redemtion arc isntead of just being uber brutal like Warner wanted. They were seeing eye to eye
That last line. I’m sorry that you are caught up in your place in the algorithm. You are still amazing, and this has been your average. Stop looking at those few extra numbers here, and there. They exist, and you should be happy with your audience that you keep. Slowly building is where it begins. Just keep the faith
Before BvS, we had 3 movies of Batman being true to original comic book character: The Dark Knight Trilogy. BvS had a new, refreshing, never seen before take on the character, and a logical one at that. Snyder's Superman would never take on Bale's Batman for example. Much like the Bruce Timm animated versions of the two character never did. Sure they butt heads when they first met, but their relationship almost instantaniously turn into an alliance, and eventually a friendship. Doing a Batman versus Superman movie is a shit idea in itself, but if it has to be done, one of the two characters has to become evil. Ben Affleck's Bruce Wayne is what Bale's Bruce Wayne could have become after The Dark Knight: A grief stricken, hopeless, pessimistic character. Losing the only woman he ever loved, losing Harvey Dent, a friend of his, but most importantly the only hope he had who could have ridden Gotham of crime for good. All gone to shit, because of the Joker. Much like the DCEU Joker killed Robin, his adopted son. After TDK when Bruce retired, becoming a depressed, hopeless and recluse man is one of the options Bruce has chosen. But what if he didn't retire? What would he have become? The answer: BvS's Batman. A depressed, hopeless, old, sadistic, cruel man who stuck to a moral code that eventually led to the death of the people who were the closest to him. What would you have become in his place?
damn u really need to read comics .so blind bruh .nobody cares about batman killing if the batman acts like not batman ,this batman is one of the stupidest ones ever .he doesn't have contingency plans or detective skills or anything .even the fact he seeing superman sacrificing and stopped killing is so childish and it should ve happened in martha scene but it didnt happen .case closed
Yes yes yes! The whole point is that Batman is taking over and making Bruce delusional in that comic. He talks to himself (you're never finished with me) and after breaking joker's neck he talks to his dead body lmao
@@porassrivastava8242 yep it really puts Year One and All Star Batman And Robin in perspective. People hated all Star but I think Miller’s Batman was always a panucho who talked to himself. People just didn’t get it until Miller bade it obvious
the Martha scene doesn't change his ways totally that scene just showed bruce seeing himself in Clark the young bruce who was begging for his parents to get saved and viewing this alien as a human a dude who wants to save his mom at his deathbed but his killing rule wasn't totally changed due to that he still had that hopelessness due to 20yrs of being batman which got changed due to superman's sacrifice and he doesn't brand lex, we see that bat tank shot where the mutant gang is tied up but not killed. joker has the silver teeth for a reason he could have had some near-death experience and got his teeth broken but escaped somehow we see in ss joker avoids a confrontation with batman he escapes and leaves Harley.. and batman has this idgaf attitude as his one mission is superman this alien so he doesn't care if u die in this process. He isn't the punisher yet but he could have been(CW's Kevin Conroy batman is the perfect example he is the same bvs batfleck but killed superman)
damn u really need to read comics .so blind bruh .nobody cares about batman killing if the batman acts like not batman ,this batman is one of the stupidest ones ever .he doesn't have contingency plans or detective skills or anything .even the fact he seeing superman sacrificing and stopped killing is so childish and it should ve happened in martha scene but it didnt happen .case closed
@@herloss448 he has detective skills and if u talking abt bvs "y batman didn't know abt superman" he was totally broken in that movie he is mentally broken so u can't expect a broken batman to behave like the prime batman u want and batman has been fooled in the comics like ras al Ghul in the tower of babel. Nothing new and zsjl "he should have had kryptonite" he clearly says he is taking a leap of faith for once in his lifetime.... which is what he did it isn't batman like... its a new interpretation of the character the same batman plans the finale battle in zsjl, finds Aquaman(lex doesn't have his location) so it was totally batman who found abt Aquaman tat is kinda detective skill he saw the tidal patterns to detect where this Aquaman would be And Martha scene ain't the point where he regains his morals.... u want it to be Martha scene that's it superman's sacrifice is not some childish thing after all the shit the world has given him he still sacrifices for it that inspires batman superman could have just flew away and let the world die but he sacrificed his life for a world who questioned his existence
@@BruceWayne-xq7bb damn .u need a labotomy bro . none of the things u said are true .u change core ideas of batman he became another character .thats garbage .batman doesnt work on faith .u telling me the guy who mastered his detective skills and trained years and years physically and mentally and also have a 20 yrs experience of this job got mentally broke like a BIh cuz robin died ?😂. snyder changed superman so bad he became supergirl .the fact that u said superman couldve flew away but he saved us shows u how much childish and edgy u are thiking are .read comics to understand the core of the characters
@@herloss448 ik the core dw and there are different versions of the same characters and even uk that as u say u have "read" comics none of their core is changed it's just a new version of the character This superman is earth1 superman, not earth0... earth1 comic is essentially mos. batman for the 1st time is operating on faith... he was paranoid in the last film this isn't edgy this is just a simple movie arc batman didn't break not just cause of robin because of the powerlessness he felt due to the black zero event the same powerlessness he felt when he was 10yrs old which pushed him to fall and u saying "batman has 20yr detective" ya as I said batman being fooled ain't new even in dark knight rises he was fooled by Talia and he didn't know it so Nolan doesn't understand the character??? Ras al Ghul fools him in the tower of babel so the writer of that comic doesn't understand? Maxwell Lord has fooled him its nothing new if ur mentally broken none of ur skills work and u operate on pure rage tats wat happened Only ur zsjl superman argument I accept as even I felt batman should have done something but they gave a reason for it even if I like it or not it's the same zsjl batman who plans the final battle it's the same batman who gives the reasons to revive superman even though the others were not 100% into reviving batman's reasons made them to agree... every batman in live-action has killed be it tim burton's, Chris Nolan's Val Kilmer... but none of them even had any reason for their killing batfleck had reason whether u like it or not. Even in comic after Jason dies, batman becomes violent.... that was his reaction for Jason... in dceu Grayson is the dead robin surely it would affect him more than Jason todd as his 1st son was a failure and died
@@herloss448 u telling me superman wouldn't sacrifice his life to save the world?? Then ig u don't understand the character.... after all the shit he went through due to lex he still saves lex that is a superman thing to do, after all the shit he went through he still saves the world and remember this is a rookie superman not he experienced superman that kind of superman we get glimpses of in zsjl he is bold, confident in his actions
@@ninjanibba4259 even at the funeral he reflects on what he's done and sees that he can do better than that and even goes as far to build the justice league it was real
@@elishawilson5342 that’s exactly why his arc wasn’t real, if he was real about changing and helping others more, he wouldn’t need to rely on bringing back Superman, in fact it’s the least Batman thing he’d ever do and I hate that in both versions cuz it basically diminishes the team as a team but relying on Superman, if Batman had truly changed, he would’ve learned to rely on the others to help and come together to form a legit plan, which they did without Superman anyway So….no true arc, just cuz he spared Lexs life, does not mean he went through an arc, it just showed he spared him cuz of Superman, not cuz it was the right thing to do by his own judgement
While I really like this arc, I think it would’ve really cemented it if after the “Martha” scene in BVS, when he went to save her he visibly goes out of his way to take out all of the goons holding her captivate non lethally. The change from blowing guys up in that scene to being the usual Batman, knocking them out and problem solving around killing them would make the arc that much better.
Yeah i also agree that they should have removed the explosions but i think the fight to save Martha is a representation of Batman fighting his way out of the deep dark pit that he has fell into during the movie.
That creates another problem though: It kinda makes his effort in saving Martha look half-assed. If he has to be SUPER careful not to badly injure or even kill people, it distracts him too much from the prime objective: To save Martha Kent no matter what. For Superman AND himself. His step by step redemption really shows when he doesn't brand Luthor in prison. THAT'S when you see him changing. And then, of course, Zack Snyder's Justice League.
@@abonny I see what you mean. Maybe I over exaggerated in my original comment. I don't mean like tip towing around the bad guys I just mean taking out a room of guys like a Batman who doesn't kill would. He can still be brutal (see the Arkham Games) and not kill anyone and use guns to blow them up. I just have a hard time rationalizing that he has this big realization in the Martha scene that he's become Joe chill and is about to destroy a family similar to how his got destroyed. Then the next scene he is back to using guns and killing goons again. I will say though killing or not, the fight choreography in the scene where he saves Martha is still badass
this is worst batman after Clooney .even the fact that the whole cringe awful Martha scene happened cuz the world's greatest detective forgot to do the usual background check on the enemy he was aboutta fight was so frustrating and laughably bad ..
3:31 this line always struck me as so out of place. This edgelord speech meant to make Batman seem badass doesn't consider the larger context of his character. If Batman's redemption arc results from realizing that Superman is Clark Kent (a man who grew up as a human with a human mother), then he wouldn't have said this whole thing right before. It would've made the Martha moment (slightly) less stupid. It's the difference between: 1) Wanting to kill an alien because he's potentially dangerous --> 2) Not wanting to kill an alien because he's very human and 1) Wanting to kill an alien despite the fact that he's very human --> 2) Not wanting to kill an alien because his mom has your mom's name
I believe it has more to do with the fact that he is deluding himself. He's projecting his loss of faith in humanity on Superman. But he can't admit that to himself, so he uses an excuse of "he ain't human bro" to justify his anger. The movie is horribly vague, but if you connect his 1% speech, it kind of makes some sense. When Alfred tells him "He is not our enemy", Bruce uses his experience with HUMANS as a way to condemn Superman - "how many good guys are left? How many stayed that way?". So, from my interpretation, whether intentional or not, he deep inside knows Superman is human and is terrified that human can possibly have that power because he doesn't like humanity.
Sigh. It's not an "edgelord" line. It's set up. That line of dialogue tells us that Batman sees Superman as inhuman. And his parents as inhuman aliens too. This is what makes the Martha scene important. By giving a human name to his mother, Superman makes Batman realize that he is human like him
@@brucesnow7125 It's not horribly vague. It just doesn't have uncessary exposition every five minutes like most blockbusters do these days. That's respecting your audience
this is worst batman after Clooney .even the fact that the whole cringe awful Martha scene happened cuz the world's greatest detective forgot to do the usual background check on the enemy he was aboutta fight was so frustrating and laughably bad
its just garbage he stopped killing a dangerous person to the society cuz he has a mom but we never saw him does that to ppl he killed in the movie lol
About the dope thing he wasn't talking about the killing being dope as f**k he meant batman himself is looks dope as f**k and I agree he looks cool but Snyder ruined the point of batman
Because I see a lot of people spouting nonsense like "Snyder is an edgelord that just things lethal violence is cool" let me also set the record straight. If you actually go in the trouble of searching Snyder's interviews instead of just recitiing the two that hitopfilms has used in his videos, you will see that he gave a very different justification for the way violence is depicted in his movies Spesifically, he said that he believes that the way other comic book movies like the MCU showcase the violence and consequences of the heroes battling, with the cities basically being paper-cut arenas that have no real damage is irresponsible since in reality the way he depicts the battles going on is closer to what would happen. So this is why he puts such emphasis on Batman's leathal scenes. To make his redemption arc more realistic and impactful. Not because he likes seeing him kill people and blow stuff up
Ok but Invincible did the same thing but I fell in love with how it was displayed, it had a reason and all the characters were very likeable So Batman doing what he did in the way that it was done isn’t an excuse, if anything it’s more insulting that it could’ve been done much better
@@ninjanibba4259 And how prey tell would "much better" be in this case? Because I think that the only way you could love what Invincible was doing while hating this, is that it was deconstructing the abstract idea of heroism with a new character. While this one was deconstructing a character you love. And not everyone has the stomach for that
@@thecabbageman1 no, the fact that it’s with a character I like is part of the problem, the execution is flawed either way with Batman cuz it’s told backwards, say if he was this brand new character I don’t know, I wouldn’t like him one bit and see him as a killer cuz that’s what he is here, the movie wants to say that he’s conflicted about being Batman the same way he used to be without showing us WHY he changed, he just says it and looks dumb while doing it, Batman is not a guesser, he is a detective and a through one at that, angry or not, that should jade him so much that he just does dumb crap That’s terrible writing and like I said, it’s been done better in other things
@@ninjanibba4259 It does show us why he changed. And him being a detective doesn't mean he is an infalible mary sue that never overlooks things or makes mistakes. Or be ruled by his emotions. That's a juvenile look on him that only literal parodies employ
You do know in dark knight returns he killed the kidnappers shot them point blank minutes before he made that speech right that made him basically a hypocrite
@@Mirrorcomics24 ik he is I'm just pointing out what a lot of fans are ignoring and showing them that Zack wasn't wrong in saying Batman killed in it that's all
I like how u say that he missreferences the comic book where in that comic book the interaction between him and the crook with the big machine gun is the exact same as in the comic, but in the comic he shoots him directly in the head while in the movie he blows out the tank. And in that comic book he even kills joker by snapping his neck and lying to himself that joker killed himself.
Yeah Frank Miller's Batman is way more Nuts than his Canon version he really is Stuck gaslighting himself after he killed the Joker and he even said he had enough of the Joker in the Movie.
Two things: -if Batman kills people, he's driving to Arkham and killing Joker. -there's no way to effectively pull back from Batman killing people. 99% of his characterizations see killing as a definitive line you can't come back from
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 88 | คู่เอก "ป้อมเพชร vs อัสลามจอน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZqTVVbMgbo/mqdefault.jpg)
This video was originally just a side project made for fun, but it ended up being one of the funnest videos I've ever made, so there's totally plans for more like this :p
The Chris Terrio interview I kept referencing: www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2021/04/chris-terrio-justice-league-batman-v-superman
where did you read the stan lee run of spider-man I've read a few but I'd love to read more also your videos are great and well put together. also, I know this was off topic of the video.
@@cooperchappell8310 that's alright, it's always awesome whenever brings up Stan Lee, I read the first 5 Marvel essentials trades which are like phone book sized black and white reprints, they're also often super cheap on ebay!
@@ImplicitlyPretentious thanks so much! it means alot to me that you responded.
For someone whose called Implicitly Pretentious you make videos that make me smile.
ur video is kinda BS .this batman is not batman this is garbage .snyder made batman kill and said when the martha scene happened he explained he saw joe chill in him but he didnt change from that murderous BS he just joe chilled another 20 men with the bat plane in next scene trying to save martha . this batman is dumb and stupid asf .he doesnt have contingency plans he ressurected superman without a plan thats not batman . he shoots a guy's fire tank just to kill him endangering martha and his self like a moron .he could have shoot him in the head cuz he did that 5 minutes ago .
I just found it really hard to believe that the Joker would survive in a world where Batman brutally kills criminals instead of handing them over to the GCPD.
Well batman was basically soo focused on killing superman in bvs I don't think killing joker was his priority 💀
@@freakingreninja7790 Well the Joker evidently killed Robin so if there’s any criminal that Batman would kill first, it’s be the Joker. And by the time the events of BVS take place, Joker should be long gone.
Batman can't get around Joker's plot armor.
@@AstonishingRed well no you really haven't gotten the point. Yeah joker would be the one in Batman's kill list but superman was literally his first priority, we literally see his pov of metropolis destruction and how that influences him into killing superman his first most important priority and he basically gets addicted? Into doing that thing that he doesn't realise his mistakes.
@@freakingreninja7790 I mean, I get that. I do. The movie is call BVS not BVJ. But the fact that the Joker is STILL alive in that universe is the thing that’s hard to believe.
“It was me Barry, I was the Warner Bros executive that pushed for “Batman v Superman” to be dark. I knew it would be hated by critics and audiences so much that it would delay your movie for years” - Reverse-Flash
I don't think there was enough emphasis that Luthor basically brainwashed Batman for months, its just kind of a line at the end
Luthor was waiting for Batman to take the rock also the letters
That line was enough for the audience to understand the context of the previous scenes that connect to it. Not everything has to be spoon fed
I am personally a fan of the movie but its a meme now that Martha made them friends when really it was Bruce remembering what Batman stands for
@@octosalias5785 I know. One of the reasons I have a love/hate relationship with meme culture. It can lighten your mood and create great stuff but also it can destroy great things
@@thecabbageman1 ironic given the Martha line.
One of the scenes of batman that I don't see too many people bring up with regards to his redemption is the scene where instead of simply fighting superman in the snyder cut when superman returns he tries to....reason with him...with words. The same way superman tried to reason with batman during their first fight but batman didn't listen and simply proceeded to fight him without hearing him out. I love that soo much and I wish more people talked about it.
Most people that want to poop on these movies are going to things like that because won't care to.
The idea is goid but the execution is weak
Can't say I much care for how they've handled Batman in the DCEU. But I can at least respect the defence made of it.
I wish I'd read the script described in the video and not the movie Zack Snyder made.
@@thekidfromcanada Same. I am ok with the ideas, but not the god awful execution of them.
Frankly, how Batman was handled is one if the least of my concerns with the DCEU. What bothers me about it is that no matter what they tried to do, it didn't work (for various reasons, one being that Snyder is unable to use symbolism effectively because he makes movies consisting of moments more than arcs another being the self-important tone of the whole thing), and that the character they depicted on screen is an unsympathetic douchebag pushing a very toxic message, never mind HOW he is called.
@@swanpride Yeah. As long as they make it good I don't care. That is why I don't care how comic accurate something is. Some core elements should be there (like Batman needs to be Bat themes or Spiderman should shoot webs), but as long as what they create is good it can be different from the comics. These aren't direct adaptations. They are new versions of the characters. Do whatever you want as long as you make it good. Batman can kill if you tell an interesting story with it and make him a good character. Snyder did not do that. Like you said his character is just a murderous douchebag
Same
Already hyped! I have always enjoyed this interpretation.
this is worst batman after Clooney .even the fact that the whole cringe awful Martha scene happened cuz the world's greatest detective forgot to do the usual background check on the enemy he was aboutta fight was so frustrating and laughably bad
I feel they did a good job at portraying Batman as a villain, my problem is more with DCEU's Superman, at least in BVS they should have made a better job at making him the actual hero of the story we spend so much time with Batman and Luthor while Clark isn't doing much.
i think u should watch the director's cut of batman vs superman. it fleshes out clark's motivations a lot better and the story flows so much better.
@@sohansahoo4203 fleshes out my behind too .wtf is wrong with u kids ? watch more movies .superman trying to stop the killing batman as hes always stop shit with killing is so stupid 🤡
@@herloss448 Why are you obsessed ?
I've been enjoying your video essays so much dude, they're all so well articulated and structured. Keep doing the good work you're doing!!!!!
Ben Affleck's Batman needs a full redemption arch, like a movie where he'd get a lot more space, cause he potential is huge (coming from a guy who hated Ben Affleck a lot before DCEU)
I would love to see him in a movie for the last time...
i mean we kinda saw that in ZSJL right? He’s gone from a vengeance filled broken persona to someone who put his faith in Superman over everything. It’s even shown visually through how he wakes up in his bed: In BvS he wakes up to darkness, a random woman in his bed, drinking, and taking pills, while in ZSJL he wakes up to light, no drinking or anything, followed by Martian Manhunter’s line “They couldn’t have done it without you Bruce. Your mother and father would be proud” conveying that he’s been redeemed from how he was in BvS
@@ryleynations6251 he had very little time in ZSJL that's not a full redemption
@@G59METH bruh yes it is a full redemption he got the team together he did it.
this is worst batman after Clooney .even the fact that the whole cringe awful Martha scene happened cuz the world's greatest detective forgot to do the usual background check on the enemy he was aboutta fight was so frustrating and laughably bad
@@herloss448 He didn't care about that. It's the point of the movie. He's not a detective anymore. That's why he and Alfred make references to war. He's given up on crime fighting ("criminals are like weeds, Alfred"). Your criticism isn't an honest take on the story and his arc which is: he's fallen.
"Chalk all that up to stress.." dude that press tour was so bad. Snyder looked so exhausted. I remember in another interview he's leaning to the side while answering questions. Makes me sad because so many people dogpiled him, including me, while taking on this huge task of making this franchise work. I'm glad Snyder is looking better.
Same, WB did not help with it AT ALL. Jesus man...they gave him hell, just to kick him out and steal his plans in the end.
They tortured him basically even had people spy on him and used his daughter's death as a cover up to firing him wb is messed up treating him badly is an understatement he didn't deserve it
It really is just horrifying how people were so eager to use Autumn's death to continue bashing him too.
And they have the fucking audacity to claim themselves as Superman fans.
@@ginichilders9619 right like the disrespect is real they say all this stuff about Zack and make fun of his daughter yet they don't see their own actions that's so messed up Superman would be disappointed with the way they treat him or each other they say they know Superman yet Superman would tell them to stop doing that
@@elishawilson5342 indeed. I recently saw this meme comic on Twitter that illustrates the hypocrisy perfectly - the purist fanboy says the 1978 movie inspired him to be a better person, and then when someone who likes the DCEU take comes in and says the movies gave them hope and helped them during a tough time in their life, the purist famboy flies off the handle and viciously bashes the DCEU Superman fan as just some "stupid Snyder cultist".
It really sucks ass. I love Superman; he's one of my favorite fictional characters in general, and I do love the DCEU take on him even though I can admit it has some faults in its execution. But good lord, I HATE being a Superman fan because of those people.
Yo!!! Whenever you’re available and/or up for it, I’d love to hear your take on the Batman Audio Adventures from HBO Max. If you don’t have an account, the first two episodes are free on TH-cam. The story is really good and the climax in episode 10 is a very interesting take on the dynamic between the Joker and Batman and what it means to identify yourself and create your own narrative. I think it’s really good, but fair warning it’s like 98 percent audio and 2 percent visuals. Other than that, though, I think it really stands well as an interesting story. Jumps a bit from place to place, but still interesting lol
Cool! I'll give it a shot, as a guy who's listened to Doctor Who Big Finish productions before, it shouldn't be too weird!
Thank you for this! I really like Ben Affleck as Batman. I would have liked to see more of his version of Batman
Nexts year’s flash movie is going to be his last movie :(
no lol .im already feeling real batman stuff from THE BATMAN movie
this is worst batman after Clooney .even the fact that the whole cringe awful Martha scene happened cuz the world's greatest detective forgot to do the usual background check on the enemy he was aboutta fight was so frustrating and laughably bad
@@herloss448 i saw you in many coments it seems that you are in the same blind rage Batman was
same...
This video is perfect, love this version of Batman. His arch 🔥
Thank you for this.
While agree that Snyder's DCEU films are flawed films.( As are most SH films.).
And Snyder has a tendency to over do somethings in his films, especially violence.
But I truly believe that Snyder was trying to do some thing different with his films. He presented us with deeply flawed heroes in a deeply flawed world, and showed us their journeys to bieng the heroes they need to be.
And despite the flaws and Snyder's tendencies, that message does come out. And people are starting to see it more clearly after ZSJL.
Now that people have seen Snyder's full plan, they are going back and appreciating Snyder's take.
I'm seeing more and more video essays like this on MoS and BvS.
And I truly believe that in the near future, 10 or 20 years maybe, Zack Snyder's trilogy as it exists now, will be looked back on much more fondly then the way it was seen at the time of release.
He doesnt overdo violence he uses violence as a critique on violence in films itself. Not too different to what Tarantino does in his films. The shock value and over-the-top is the point.
While other Comicbook films solve their problems with violence, in snyders comicbook films the violence becomes the problem itself.
Accept for that, I agree on everyting else u wrote
@@MarkFilipAnthony I think he really only came close to overdoing it in 300, and even then, you can't really make that type of war less violent than it actually was
this is worst batman after Clooney .even the fact that the whole cringe awful Martha scene happened cuz the world's greatest detective forgot to do the usual background check on the enemy he was aboutta fight was so frustrating and laughably bad
@@herloss448 Batfleck was great. Only behind Bale.
And the reason he didn't know about Superman's mother was because he did not know who Superman was.
The fact that you missed such a clear and obvious plot point is laughably stupid.
@@kingkiller5325 DCEU and Snyder haters *are* laughably stupid to be fair lmao.
You know what would make this even better tho... A prequel Batfleck Movie.
this is worst batman after Clooney .even the fact that the whole cringe awful Martha scene happened cuz the world's greatest detective forgot to do the usual background check on the enemy he was aboutta fight was so frustrating and laughably bad
“Disciple”, your utterance of the word, and your comparison of the closing shots of Bruce in BVS with the opening shot of him in the Snyder Cut crystallized the Pauline allegory with Bruce. Many thanks.
Damn straight. I knew I wasn't the only one who saw Snyder's Batman as bearing some similarities to the apostle Paul.
He starts off against the Christ like figure but, once its true nature is revealed to him, he then serves it to atone for his misdeeds.
Snyder was actually technically right when he referenced "The Dark knight Returns".
In that story Frank Miller wanted to showcase Batman's hypocrisy, the fact that he is a killer in denial.
In that comic Batman does indeed kill but in very subtle ways because it's from his POV.
For example, when he fought the Joker he didn't just paralyzed him by twisting his neck.. he completely snapped it and killed him. Their conversations after that was all in Batman's head, it's hinted with the color of the speech bubbles. People saw that and called him a killer but Batman was again in denial and replied with "I wish I was" with a very guilty looking face.
He was just making up excuses like in the movie.
And that's basically the inspiration for Batman's arc in BvS.
Wait, so the Joker didn't actually finish the job himself? That was a hallucination?
@@rickrivers2021 it's heavily implied, yes.
It’s a cool interpretation but no. Batman may have killed joker but he’s definitely not a killer throughout the story and the story isn’t exclusively told from his pov
@@mero7731 What about the junkyard scene? Even if it's rubber bullets, these _can_ actually kill; especially so when fired from a high caliber tank machine gun. And then there's the explosions. I don't think it's ever mentioned what he uses for that, but it's certainly killing people left and right.
@@fernandoerbin6751 ok so later on in the story when they are listing why he is wanted and one of those is murder. It is a surprise to most people even the cops. If Bruce kill a bunch of mutants in the junkyard, it probably would’ve been mentioned. Also a 200 pound man of muscle punching criminals in the face can also kill, rubber bullets is just a way for writers to write it off.
I thank you for your video on this topic. I've long believed that this Batman is truly one of the greatest interpretations of the dark knight as he's truly fallen.
Great analysis as always. The DCEU and especially Snyder's films are clunky, bold and messy. But there is a certain beauty to many of them that goes unrespresented in the discussions of film analysis culture and it's a shame, which is why I'm glad people are revisiting the work to present more honest and thorough perspectives on it.
One little nitpick tho: It's actually implied twice in TDKR that Batman kills. One with a mutant gangmember and the other with Joker. Snyder while not being the most articulate or straightforward of people, is not an idiot. Terrio and Snyder were both on the same wavelength with what they wanted. If not, Snyder would have had someone write the screenplay like Goyer again or something.
Either way, these interpretations of the characters are interesting and I hope WB and DC continue to let these characters explore, contradict and grow. It's fresh in the world of superhero cinema.
I've been saying this since the movie BvS came out. You're not supposed to agree with Bruce because he's very obviously presented as the antagonist in the film. It blows my mind other people have so much trouble recognizing that. This is a sequel to Man of Steel, so Supes is the hero of the story.
Edit: I love that I posted this partway through the video and almost immediately after I posted, he said the same thing 😅
Yup, don't know why people think that heroes are going to be all-stable all-time.
Is he, though? There are too many shots making him look "cool" to really see him as the antagonist. And considering how Snyder handled Watchmen....
@@swanpride Really, because the first shot of Ben as Batman in the movie that I remember was almost horror like with him appearing as this menacing thing on the wall. Definitely did not look like a good guy.
And similarly throughout the movie Bruce is potrayed as this angry, frustrated borderline manic guy reliant on drugs and alchohol.
When you compare that to Superman, he definitely does not look good.
And I think Snyder handled Watchmen quite well.
@@kingkiller5325 And then he gets a cross-fit scene to show how "cool" he is....
@@swanpride The cross fit scene was less about bieng cool and more about showing Bruce's will and determination.
And anyway, he's Batman. They have to his physicality. And theirs nothing inherently heroic about a training montage. Villains get them too, in films.
I can at least see what Snyder was trying to do with Batman. This "old fallen hero who finds his way again".
That being said, that's too big of a story for a film series that's never solely focused on Batman. Snyder is focusing on so many things at once that (unless the movie is ridiculously long) a lot of them are gonna seem underdeveloped.
DC and WB are more at fault for that, they want Avengers in 2 years in 2 movies not 4-5 years with 6
This whole Batman story would have worked a lot better with a solo Batman movie before BvS to show how far Batman had fallen in full depth.
acting like Batman just killed for the sake of edgyness, that he didn’t have an arch shows some didn’t really pay attention to the film. It’s a blessing that you pointed this out.
lol he didnt have development kiddo .watch more movies .the excution is terrible bcuz snyder isnt a good director .he didnt even have enough morals kill superman .and the so called development u whining about should ve happened in martha scene but it didnt happen as batfake just mag dumped another 20 ppl with bat plane in next scene .the whole thing with batman killing ppl so fooking stupid .its okay if he faces consequences after
@@herloss448 I wasn't whining, I was saying my joys for someone actually watching the movie. besides, his development did happen. he refused to kill Superman so he changed. and even if he killed criminals after, he refused to kill Lex in the end. character archs take time. he had consequence, people he branded got killed in jail and their kids were orphaned. also don't call Zack a bad director for writing choices, when he didn't write it. I urge you to watch the movie again, and the video, it said Batsy had consequences and changed his mind. just because many hate it, doesn't mean you can't look at it in a different perspective.
@@k1ttkw1snky69 what consequences he faced none for all his murdered, and yes I watched the video, and it just tells us what was intended by the screen writer and how that didn't line up with what the studio wanted along with Snyder's poor execution, and statements not in line with what terrio said, Snyder wanted batman to kill in a cool fashion, Chris' terrio actually thought about character arc, that went into Justice League, because as cool as the warehouse scene is, it still shows him ruthlessly killing thugs, even that 1 thug who stabbed him and was singled out in the scene near the end shows that this batman didn't take much from sparing superman and having Martha PTSD.
@@KwabzModding Zack still let the story show Batman changed even if he wanted him to kill, not just because it's cool, but because it fit the story. just because Batsy didn't go, "I'm not a killer anymore" instantly after changing his mind about Superman specifically is not poor execution. if anything it's realistic. like I said, character archs can take time. after the warehouse rampage he refused to kill Lex. he changed his mind about Superman, then he changed his mind about killing criminals. slow archs are not always needed, but not always bad. Also he did face consequences, people died in jail because of him, I don’t know what you mean by he didn’t have any. Did you watch the directors cut?
Ironically the movie is partially about what harm blinded hatred can cause. And the people against the movie don't get that because they don't even want to understand the thing.
I will be honest I really enjoyed this batman arc because it's a broken man moving on from fear, from pain showing that he is doing what he does on faith and becoming the batman I know and was happy to see when the snyder cut came out a good leader, a man with plan after plan, a badass, a league and most importantly a good man and a great hero. He started off as a broken man who lost his ways but found it in someone who always had hope even when superman lost alot he never lost his light, he always had hope and was never going to bow down to the darkness is what I felt made batman enjoyed his friendship with Clark that he always had that light and hope and love sense of being happy with his family no matter what others say about him that you can blame him for alot of destruction and chaos and try to make him go bad but has the will to never lose the light.
This video was a masterpiece. Thank you. Gave me a lot of insight into me of my favorite characters in the latest incarnation and showed how much there is to appreciate. Just might have to make my own video. Much love man
It feels good...
Watching this video...
Knowing that I am not alone...
When Zack Snyder said about Batman killing indirectly, I'm pretty certain he means that's how Batman justifies it to himself, not that it's correct.
The problem I have with him killing is that it doesn't exactly make sense. If Batman is gonna kill then Joker must not be alive. If Batman is willing to go down this road, then this needs to front and center, something that Alfred talks about from time and time again, trying to pull him into the light instead of complete darkness. I like themes what this movie was trying to accomplish, but the very issues lies in the fact that this is Batman first appearance in the Snyder universe, this is Superman second appearance in the Snyder universe. If we're gonna have these titans clash, these two individual learn and grown to the end of the movie, then we need some extra semblance of time with these characters.
One movie can not dissect why Batman kills since part of the movie is dedicated to Superman and his arc of being an alien in a world who's paranoid by his powers.
One movie can not dissect Superman's arc of being hopeful no matter when things seems hopeless. Because you also have Batman as the front and center while also having wonder woman, Lex, and doomsday.
The very issue is that bvs does too much in one movie, and it's accomplishments to these arcs while fulfilled, feels hollowed in my eyes because we didn't get the time we needed for these characters. To truly understand there world, there mindset of what their purpose is as of that moment, and why they need to better for a better world. Because I really love Snyder version of the justice league, I felt everyone who worked on this version put more love and effort compare to the two previous movies before it. It to me felt like a comic book coming to life in front of my face that I only get occasionally with other super hero movies. I specifically wish we had more development for Batman and Superman so when they do clash, when Batman chooses to be better after Superman's death, it means alot and its powerful then hollow. But I can only dream.
Yes absolutely. That's one of the annoying things about this Batman as they don't follow through all the logical consequences that they're change implies.
If we have a Batman who kills, then Arkham is only going to have villains who don't kill people. The rest will be in the grave.
And since you would have to include all of their hint people, this would be a Batman who has literally killed hundreds of people. Which almost certainly means he's killed one or two innocent people.
This wasn't the Batman I grew up with in red for over 20 years. It just shows bad or biased writing can ruin any character. And the only way to deal with it is to walk away. Which I did after BvS.
Love the DCA but do not watch the DC live action movies.
Did you pay attention to batman v superman? Because everything you're saying was in the film. Unless it flew over you, then that's just on you.
@@macmcleod1188 again pay attention to the film first. He didn't start killing for the sake of killing. He just stopped caring about the no kill rule after the death of dick grayson. He did beat the crap out of the joker and knocked all his teeth out which is why he has the grill in suicide squad. He's also branding criminals because they can't redeem themselves anymore. This is just an old batman who's losing his way because a batman without a family is a dangerous batman.
@@NiRvAnA6890 Doesn't matter. Happy to pay for suicide squad by Gunn. Not giving a dime to anything related to snyder or other dystopic movies that make batman or superman murderers.
@@NiRvAnA6890 again, look at what I explained. One movie is not enough to tell a batman who lost his way. Yes, the tid bits litter through batman v superman and suicide squad is there, but those are so far in between when those two movie had alot more to juggle around. If they have done a batman movie that led to batman v superman, one that dives deep into the head space of Bruce and all the things he been through, then it would be justifiable to see a batman lose his way.
But again, batman v superman had too much to juggle to tell that specific story
You make things that I have 0 interest in watching or watching again seem like the best narratives on the planet. I don't get how you do that.
True
Not watching it again (the Ultimate CUt that is) would be a huge mistake.
Snyder's films always profit from rewatches. Just take the film for what it actually IS and not for what you want it to be.
@@abonny but I want it to be good
this is worst batman after Clooney .even the fact that the whole cringe awful Martha scene happened cuz the world's greatest detective forgot to do the usual background check on the enemy he was aboutta fight was so frustrating and laughably bad
I think people complain about the BvS being too dark because they can feel that something is wrong with the movie and think tone might be the answer. I didn't find BvS all that darker from the Nolan trilogy. Quite simply, the plot is convoluted and contrived along with moments that are just nonsensical.
No more contrived than the color yellow making a green lantern's power mute, or a green glowing rock making Superman weak/killing him.
dark ? BVS ?lol its just a edgy trash with mess of a plot and characters
@@mainstreetsaint36 the yellow weakness hasn't been a thing in ages
It's really nice to see what I consider a more major essay channel address this, instead of the usual "BATMAN DOESN'T KILL WAHHH" shit that we usually get. I hate to sound pretentious but I genuinely believe most viewers just don't understand this movie and arc, and you can tell by the arguments you hear against it. While I love Zack, he does muddy the waters at times with his direction and comments. But I think most people's frustrations with this movie are fixed by paying attention to the Ultimate Edition, general audiences seem to not read metaphors or symbolism very well or at least not on first viewing.
It's not pretentious to say they don't get the intent of the movie and the arc. It's a fact. It's a combination of hype, rage when said hype was subverted and the theatrical cut fucking up the story cohesion.
People spend too much time fixated on complaining about what the story isn't that they rarely pay attention into what it is
No plenty of people understood it just fine. The execution of it was terrible. Even the ultimate edition is bad. It is fine if you like these movies, but people aren't criticizing it just because they didn't get it.
@@tuffdude7795 Based on the things people take issue with, I disagree. So my guess by your tone is that you didn't. Would be interested in your explanation of how it wasn't executed properly so I can understand.
@@waxilliamladrian The arc described is barely shown. This Batman mows people down in his Batmobile and the shot is framed as cool instead of horrific. After he decides not to kill Superman he still kills people. We get a shot of Robin's costume, but it seems to have happened quite a while ago. The Martha line was ridiculous. Batman has killed people before, so him having a mom shouldn't stop him from killing him. Also it makes no sense that Superman says save Martha instead of save my mom. They didn't properly explore what Batman killing is like. They framed many of his kill shots as cool looking.
@@tuffdude7795 No that's exactly why they are criticizing them. Because the vast majority of criticism, either ascribes a wrong intent into the movie, makes points against the film that are contradicted by the film itself(supposed "plot holes" that the film actually explains if you pay attention) or both
You have such an impressive grasp of DC and their characters. Great video!
He literally shot someone in DKR as well as electrocuted another guy
But murder isn't added to his charges until Joker dies. The guy he electrocuted survived and the other guy was a shoulder shot.
Quite the video, just have to say a few things, with the Bat branding, it is not as though he is dooming them to die, Lex has a hand in that with hiring thugs to take out certain people, Batman does it so they remember he is watching them, when it is more likely just a scare tactic to keep them behaved, not paying attention, even with Clark questioning Batman’s tactics Bruce said “Don’t believe everything you hear son.” And as for the killing casually, i would not say casually anymore than other live action batmen doing that which is more man slaughter than anything else. For the DKR, it is referencing the comic where it shows Batman shooting the mutant which looks like he died from the bullet, where as Batfleck shooting the tank Zack said that it would have gone too far for Batman to just kill him after everything that’s happened.
Thanks man for understanding the character a lot of people would just see batman killing and don't even try to understand the context that is given
I still watch ur videos. Please keep making more. I find them incredibly interesting and insightful. I look forward to future videos.
Aww thanks, hopefully I still have things to say in the coming future 😂
Eventhough people hated the famous "Martha" scene, I kind of see that it somewhat fit. For me, it would have been a lot BETTER if just after the word martha Batman had the flashback when his parents were killed, first a zoom at the gun with the trigger being pulled up, THEN to the face of the villian who pulled the trigger, but this time we see the adult batman, himself (face clean, without the mask), Face of a really stressed but angry man, then a zoom out of him(batman) with the gun on his hand; then the flashback ends and then continue the scene and the rest of the movie. Maybe a little couple of changes here and there (LOL I don´t remember the exact details of the movie).
But anyways, It wasn´t like that. Sadly, the movie matched with my low expectations... but I really enjoy it because I didn´t expect much LOL XD; suck for the people complaining how bad the movie is but I just laught at them XD.
I feel like using "Martha" as a trigger word was too weak. I do feel think the idea of Superman calling his mother's name, or anything that would have resembled that would have been perfect turning point for Batman, but using simply his mother's name isn't strong enough to warrant a full change(In my opinion). I think making him cry in a way that seems childlike or something more drastic than calling a name would have resolved my issues for that scene.
@@응가바보-j7k I totally agree with that. The base idea is good but it really needed more emotion, a couple of sentences and also , at the very minimum, a tear from superman's eyes... So Batman at that moment could like see he is killing at a cold blooded level.... But what you said sounds alright I guess.
Martha is still not an impactful line "Mom" would have been more impactful and to the point
@@fernandouseodysee5027 What would have been really impactful if Sups Said "Mom, Save my Mother please"
But instead of ending it there Batman is still gonna Go through with killing Clark until Alfred Shows up to stop him or automatically Stops his Suit and talks him out of it saying something along the lines of "would your Parents approve of you for Taking a Son away from his Mother, would Robin, would Your Mother Martha, this isn't about saving the World Bruce, this is your personal vendetta against an Innocent Man" (maybe even kill your darlings and Alfred just looks at him in horror or disappointment)
This is soo good. Great analysis!
Would love to see your take on once upon a time characters
This whole arc they pulled off would have been way better received if Batman had gotten his own movie beforehand
Another great video man. Keep going
Aww thanks! ☺️☺️
Yes!
Batman kills in the dark knight return, even if he says that the guns are for cowards. He kills joker and the man that take the girl in hostage
I think we can all see the intended deeper meaning and thought process, I just think a lot of us can also see it didn't properly display that deeper meaning.
I think most miss it, based on their superficial arguments.
you have no idea how much i have been waiting for YOU to do this video
i hope the controversy isn't that much, cus now a days the name of Affleck batman is just enough to cause controversy
Apparently, in the dark knight rises comic, Batman killed a lot and was a hypocrite. Like people often show that one picture where he breaks a gun but not other pictures where he kills. Or at least possibly did. But that’s just what I heard.
i love your videos bro i always watch em and i can see how much effort you put into each video. I'll always watch your videos so please keep them coming :)
to be fair in Dark Knight Returns he does shoot someone in between the eyes and it's also heavily implied that he killed the Joker. Things the movie didn't show.
This was such a weird gripe over the years seeing how few people he actually directly kills
I’m glad snyder can have love and people like him as he was a really good Batman but in my opinion they needed to show his breaking point before jumping into things
the video hasn’t been up for a minute and you’re already sharing your opinion😂
@@calebdearing5750 cool
@@calebdearing5750 is that a problem
It's also important to note Snyder didn't do these decisions with that in mind, he made these decisions purely because he thinks it's cooler and "more realistic" and that batman having a no killing rule is a "fantasy world"
@@noname-hf9ty not true
Your videos have given me a new appreciation for Batman v Superman. I used to hate the movie. I still think it's kind of clunkily done, but much like the Star Wars prequels I can appreciate what the director Zack Snyder was trying to do even if he didn't quite stick The Landing
at 6:50 I got chills and broke into tears man, you make beautiful essays.
this is worst batman after Clooney .even the fact that the whole cringe awful Martha scene happened cuz the world's greatest detective forgot to do the usual background check on the enemy he was aboutta fight was so frustrating and laughably bad
Dude - right on the money. The cut up version didn’t help anyone. But once you’ve the extended version, it is crystal clear. He has a huge arc. The movie never defends his killing. You can disagree, but THAT’S THE POINT. You can still have issues with it, but so many people criticize what the point of the story was. Batman has got some serious issues. When he lets Superman die - he realizes he has to do better.
I’ve said it once or twice before and I’ll say it again. BvS should have been a standalone Batman film. Batfleck was easily the highlight. I’d have rather Snyder made one instead of jumping straight into what should have been the 4th or 5th DCEU movie after Wonder Woman and an MoS sequel.
True. Batfleck is still cool tho.
@@Spiderstan2000 For sure. He killed it in the role. It was such a waste he never got his own solo flick. It’s never too late for HBO Max/DC to continue the Snyderverse but we’ll see. At least we’ll see him in The Flash.
@@Biocreech true. It sucks.
this is worst batman after Clooney .even the fact that the whole cringe awful Martha scene happened cuz the world's greatest detective forgot to do the usual background check on the enemy he was aboutta fight was so frustrating and laughably bad
This was great. Except that Batman does kill in the Dark Knight Returns. He kills the Joker and in the comic inspiration for the scene where he saves Martha he kills the guy by shooting him. Synder actually toned that down by just having him light the gas on fire.
Your point about Snyder misrepresenting The Dark Knight Returns is actually false: Batman kills quite alot in the Comic. Yes, he demonizes guns in two scenes, but he also USES guns in multiple other scenes. He shoots the Mutant threatening a baby, uses hagrapling gun that looks suspiciosly like a rifle (that's on purpose), and shoots a gun after killing the Joker (yes, he killed Joker. Look up the theory about Jokers grey speech-bubbles. Only Batman's thought-bubbles are grey, he is imagining Joker to still be alive because he is in denial). He also uses his tank to shoot up and blow the shit out of the mutants... Do people really think no one died there? It's all about Batman being in complete denial about what he is actually doing. He is an old, hypocritical man in the comic. It also holds a mirror in the face of the readers, with many of them being perfectly fine to ignore the violence and believe the lie that Batman didn't kill anyone. It's quite brilliant actually.
Bingo. There's alot of misinterpretation, and frankly, taking of the wrong things, from TDKR. Bruce in that story is delusional about himself in relation to the legend that is "The Batman". He's bought into his own hype, and is getting a reality check.
damn u really need to read comics .so blind bruh .nobody cares about batman killing if the batman acts like not batman ,this batman is one of the stupidest ones ever .he doesn't have contingency plans or detective skills or anything .even the fact he seeing superman sacrificing and stopped killing is so childish and it should ve happened in martha scene but it didnt happen .case closed
this is worst batman after Clooney .even the fact that the whole cringe awful Martha scene happened cuz the world's greatest detective forgot to do the usual background check on the enemy he was aboutta fight was so frustrating and laughably bad
Great video and lots of great points. I personally think part of the reason Batman's arc fell a bit short was because there was a fundamental misunderstand of him on WB part because as the Dark Knights Joker puts it best "you are truly uncurable force" therefore having this batman who kills and uses guns shows WB huge misunderstand of how Batman works and how he truly is.
Unbelievably phenomenal and concise analysis of DCEU Batman, thank you for understanding the character!
finally someone said it. i felt like i was taking crazy pills
cool video as always. i disliked dceu batman before mosty because it was the popular opinion, but with the release of zsjl, i learned to appreciate the arc of this interpretation of the character
Yeah that was my general experience, I still disagree with some of the decisions, but I dig how the broader arc acknowledged used those disagreements to tell a story
I've never looked at Bats in BvS from this perspective. Nicely done
what perspective ?damn u really need to read comics .so blind bruh .nobody cares about batman killing if the batman acts like not batman ,this batman is one of the stupidest ones ever .he doesn't have contingency plans or detective skills or anything .even the fact he seeing superman sacrificing and stopped killing is so childish and it should ve happened in martha scene but it didnt happen .case closed
this is worst batman after Clooney .even the fact that the whole cringe awful Martha scene happened cuz the world's greatest detective forgot to do the usual background check on the enemy he was aboutta fight was so frustrating and laughably bad
@@herloss448 I've noticed a pattern of obsession in your posts. Rather than participating in a thoughtful conversation you just keep repeating the same nonsense. There is help available and I hope you are getting the treatment you need.
Wasn't it Lex Luthor paying for the bat-branded inmates to get killed, to paint Batman as the villain for Superman?
Yes, but that's not public knowledge, for all people care, if you get the brand, you get killed, sort of like how in real life, sex offenders can get snitched the moment they get to prison, and other inmates take them out.
Yes. But that doesnt matter in this case. Brand = dead. Its not that different when compared to real life. Gets labeled a chomo and youre dead.
Batfleck is my Batman and this video means a lot to me. Thank you.
Great video. Nailed it! I have always loved the DCEU Batman and thought he worked as a character until the warehouse scene and I thought it was awkward how he went from that to the great continuation of his ark in Justice League but now after watching this video it does make more sense.
To the souls who are wondering what the name of the song at: 9:43 is but their questions gone unanswered, fear not! Name of the song is: Sunrise Sunset by Duplex Heart.
Ey man I really loved this video! I really felt batfleck's character was really REALLY misunderstood.
Whereas I don't think there *was* a Batman character in BvS or JL. There was nothing to misunderstand: just empty suits punching each other in the rain.
misunderstood ? wtf u on about ?hes a garbage batman who broke his morals bcuz robin died lol.hes one of stupidest batman ever .hes not a detective lois lane doing detective shit better than him in this hack universe .he doesn't have plans .a batman who saw joe chill in him and realized hes becoming joe chill and then he joe chilled another 20 ppl with the bat plane in next scene .u guys are blind
@@herloss448 uhhh if that's how you see it sure that's your opinion
@@freakingreninja7790 its not a opinion .none of the things i said arent wrong so these are facts and i have watched every snyder explaining his movie vids.u should use ur brain more before blindly imagine some BS
@@herloss448 well they are your opinion, it's how you see those movies and those characters, that's your perspective, your way of seeing. Opinions are not facts man. And why are you soo angry that someone thinks I'm a different way than you do like what? Are you okay? It's like you seem soo hurt that some random dude on internet thinks a different way about batman than you do and now it's personal for you, let people have their opinions man it won't end the fucking world
ppl keep comparing this to what marvel did Superman Arc is a part 5 series that introduces the league. We only got 3 parts of the story. BVS is MOS part 2 and ZSJL is part 3.
Dude, I watch everything you do -- as long as -- I've seen the underlying thing you are analyzing. lately I have been watching less, cause there's been Invincible and Batman cartoon. I'm not saying don't do that, but perhaps your other watchers have the same experience? Don't know, just asking. From my POV, I love your work, I learn a bunch from it, please keep going.
love the "o holy night" music background
It would have hit more if Superman said “save my mom please” not Martha but oh well lol
Imo it’d have hit way less. Like bruh who Tf would go ‘save my mum’ to appeal to someone? They don’t even have a name to go off of. And how old is Superman, 12? Who still calls their mum ‘mum’ as an adult?
@@ohyeahitsthatguy9454 I question what world you live in where your mom stops being your mom because you aren't a kid anymore.
Literally every adult I've known throughout calls their mother "mom" and the ones who called them by their names did as a sign of disrespect
@@ReaperBlaze76 I guess it’s just how people are brought up. It’s not that unusual over here. But still if we ignore that just saying ‘my mum’ would neither give Batman a name to search for nor a reason to care about Superman’s mum. Clark Kent’s a journalist, who just found out about Bruce Wayne like a few weeks ago. I wouldn’t put it past him to know of the famous story of Wayne’s orphaning. Maybe he used the coincidental naming to appeal to Bruce knowing it would get a reaction. Which it does, to be fair. But yeah, of course my mum is still my mum. But why do I have to keep calling her ‘mum’? She has a name.
@@ohyeahitsthatguy9454 No it had nothing to do with the fact he knew who Bruce Wayne was, I swear you fanboys do nothing but make excuses for every dumb thing he does.
Superman saying Martha doesn't make sense, regardless of how you try to justify it, people calling their parents by their name isn't a normal thing and it's not something Superman was ever shown doing prior.
damn u really need to read comics .so blind bruh .nobody cares about batman killing if the batman acts like not batman ,this batman is one of the stupidest ones ever .he doesn't have contingency plans or detective skills or anything .even the fact he seeing superman sacrificing and stopped killing is so childish and it should ve happened in martha scene but it didnt happen .case closed
Never really saw it in this way. Thanks for opening my eyes!
A trilogy about a Batman who kills and then finds redemption is a greaqt idea. One movie which was an excuse for blowing stuff up as Zack clearly didn't intend any of what you said and just did it because he thought "Batman kills all the time", completely sucks
Yeah we've kinda got a weird writer vs director dissonance here
Isn't that basically just Batman, Batman Returns, and (the original script of) Batman Forever?
@@ImplicitlyPretentious - yeah, that’s kind of common with Snyder’s body of work (even with the scripts he writes, tbh).
The obvious example would be to look at the way he presents Watchmen as a slick, stylish, gleefully violent superhero flick, but if you were to go right back to the beginning and read James Gunn’s screenplay for Dawn of the Dead, it actually has a less flippant tone to it than the final film exhibits.
Maybe Zack Snyder is just the Eric Morecombe of directors; he plays all the right notes, just not necessarily in the right order.
Snyder did intend that though. He has said it many times. Even Terrio said they were seeing eye to eye
@@ImplicitlyPretentious That's simply not true. Terrio has said that he and Snyder together fought to have him have a redemtion arc isntead of just being uber brutal like Warner wanted. They were seeing eye to eye
I love than this movie make us talk about it for years, it is a true modern classic
finally. someone with a brain
Actually Ann Sarnoff was the villain.
Snyder was to early. Bvs is a masterpiece
That last line. I’m sorry that you are caught up in your place in the algorithm. You are still amazing, and this has been your average. Stop looking at those few extra numbers here, and there. They exist, and you should be happy with your audience that you keep. Slowly building is where it begins. Just keep the faith
Before BvS, we had 3 movies of Batman being true to original comic book character: The Dark Knight Trilogy. BvS had a new, refreshing, never seen before take on the character, and a logical one at that. Snyder's Superman would never take on Bale's Batman for example. Much like the Bruce Timm animated versions of the two character never did. Sure they butt heads when they first met, but their relationship almost instantaniously turn into an alliance, and eventually a friendship. Doing a Batman versus Superman movie is a shit idea in itself, but if it has to be done, one of the two characters has to become evil. Ben Affleck's Bruce Wayne is what Bale's Bruce Wayne could have become after The Dark Knight: A grief stricken, hopeless, pessimistic character. Losing the only woman he ever loved, losing Harvey Dent, a friend of his, but most importantly the only hope he had who could have ridden Gotham of crime for good. All gone to shit, because of the Joker. Much like the DCEU Joker killed Robin, his adopted son. After TDK when Bruce retired, becoming a depressed, hopeless and recluse man is one of the options Bruce has chosen. But what if he didn't retire? What would he have become? The answer: BvS's Batman. A depressed, hopeless, old, sadistic, cruel man who stuck to a moral code that eventually led to the death of the people who were the closest to him. What would you have become in his place?
damn u really need to read comics .so blind bruh .nobody cares about batman killing if the batman acts like not batman ,this batman is one of the stupidest ones ever .he doesn't have contingency plans or detective skills or anything .even the fact he seeing superman sacrificing and stopped killing is so childish and it should ve happened in martha scene but it didnt happen .case closed
@@herrflantier3739 thats ur comeback ? 😂nice defending garbage 🤡
Batflek is basically what Bats talked about to Red Hood when he asked why not kill the Joker, because once he kills he wouldn't know when to stop.
In The Dark Knight Returns Batman is a hypocrite for that monolog. He kills a mutant by shooting him between the eyes and he kills the Joker.
Yes yes yes! The whole point is that Batman is taking over and making Bruce delusional in that comic. He talks to himself (you're never finished with me) and after breaking joker's neck he talks to his dead body lmao
@@porassrivastava8242 yep it really puts Year One and All Star Batman And Robin in perspective. People hated all Star but I think Miller’s Batman was always a panucho who talked to himself. People just didn’t get it until Miller bade it obvious
u should read the comic cuz its not like this garbage BVS
Perfect explanation if the Martha scene. He was turning into Joe Chill
the Martha scene doesn't change his ways totally that scene just showed bruce seeing himself in Clark the young bruce who was begging for his parents to get saved and viewing this alien as a human a dude who wants to save his mom at his deathbed but his killing rule wasn't totally changed due to that he still had that hopelessness due to 20yrs of being batman which got changed due to superman's sacrifice and he doesn't brand lex, we see that bat tank shot where the mutant gang is tied up but not killed.
joker has the silver teeth for a reason he could have had some near-death experience and got his teeth broken but escaped somehow we see in ss joker avoids a confrontation with batman he escapes and leaves Harley..
and batman has this idgaf attitude as his one mission is superman this alien so he doesn't care if u die in this process. He isn't the punisher yet but he could have been(CW's Kevin Conroy batman is the perfect example he is the same bvs batfleck but killed superman)
damn u really need to read comics .so blind bruh .nobody cares about batman killing if the batman acts like not batman ,this batman is one of the stupidest ones ever .he doesn't have contingency plans or detective skills or anything .even the fact he seeing superman sacrificing and stopped killing is so childish and it should ve happened in martha scene but it didnt happen .case closed
@@herloss448 he has detective skills and if u talking abt bvs "y batman didn't know abt superman" he was totally broken in that movie he is mentally broken so u can't expect a broken batman to behave like the prime batman u want and batman has been fooled in the comics like ras al Ghul in the tower of babel. Nothing new and zsjl "he should have had kryptonite" he clearly says he is taking a leap of faith for once in his lifetime.... which is what he did it isn't batman like... its a new interpretation of the character the same batman plans the finale battle in zsjl, finds Aquaman(lex doesn't have his location) so it was totally batman who found abt Aquaman tat is kinda detective skill he saw the tidal patterns to detect where this Aquaman would be
And Martha scene ain't the point where he regains his morals.... u want it to be Martha scene that's it superman's sacrifice is not some childish thing after all the shit the world has given him he still sacrifices for it that inspires batman superman could have just flew away and let the world die but he sacrificed his life for a world who questioned his existence
@@BruceWayne-xq7bb damn .u need a labotomy bro . none of the things u said are true .u change core ideas of batman he became another character .thats garbage .batman doesnt work on faith .u telling me the guy who mastered his detective skills and trained years and years physically and mentally and also have a 20 yrs experience of this job got mentally broke like a BIh cuz robin died ?😂. snyder changed superman so bad he became supergirl .the fact that u said superman couldve flew away but he saved us shows u how much childish and edgy u are thiking are .read comics to understand the core of the characters
@@herloss448 ik the core dw and there are different versions of the same characters and even uk that as u say u have "read" comics none of their core is changed it's just a new version of the character
This superman is earth1 superman, not earth0... earth1 comic is essentially mos. batman for the 1st time is operating on faith... he was paranoid in the last film this isn't edgy this is just a simple movie arc batman didn't break not just cause of robin because of the powerlessness he felt due to the black zero event the same powerlessness he felt when he was 10yrs old which pushed him to fall and u saying "batman has 20yr detective" ya as I said batman being fooled ain't new even in dark knight rises he was fooled by Talia and he didn't know it so Nolan doesn't understand the character??? Ras al Ghul fools him in the tower of babel so the writer of that comic doesn't understand? Maxwell Lord has fooled him its nothing new if ur mentally broken none of ur skills work and u operate on pure rage tats wat happened
Only ur zsjl superman argument I accept as even I felt batman should have done something but they gave a reason for it even if I like it or not it's the same zsjl batman who plans the final battle it's the same batman who gives the reasons to revive superman even though the others were not 100% into reviving batman's reasons made them to agree... every batman in live-action has killed be it tim burton's, Chris Nolan's Val Kilmer... but none of them even had any reason for their killing batfleck had reason whether u like it or not. Even in comic after Jason dies, batman becomes violent.... that was his reaction for Jason... in dceu Grayson is the dead robin surely it would affect him more than Jason todd as his 1st son was a failure and died
@@herloss448 u telling me superman wouldn't sacrifice his life to save the world?? Then ig u don't understand the character.... after all the shit he went through due to lex he still saves lex that is a superman thing to do, after all the shit he went through he still saves the world and remember this is a rookie superman not he experienced superman that kind of superman we get glimpses of in zsjl he is bold, confident in his actions
love ur choices of music, subbed
And this is why we need to have the Snyderverse restored
When batman said if he kills he can't come back, *he* *wasn't* *kidding*
"This isn't batman, batman doesn't kill people"
Clark, Alfred, Gotham citizens: yes we agree.
That's basically the point of his arc in this film of him losing his way
@@elishawilson5342 it would make it better had it been seen that the arc was real by the end
@@ninjanibba4259 he literally spared lex showing that Superman's death changed him and brought him back
@@ninjanibba4259 even at the funeral he reflects on what he's done and sees that he can do better than that and even goes as far to build the justice league it was real
@@elishawilson5342 that’s exactly why his arc wasn’t real, if he was real about changing and helping others more, he wouldn’t need to rely on bringing back Superman, in fact it’s the least Batman thing he’d ever do and I hate that in both versions cuz it basically diminishes the team as a team but relying on Superman, if Batman had truly changed, he would’ve learned to rely on the others to help and come together to form a legit plan, which they did without Superman anyway
So….no true arc, just cuz he spared Lexs life, does not mean he went through an arc, it just showed he spared him cuz of Superman, not cuz it was the right thing to do by his own judgement
Lore of Understanding DCEU Batman momentum 100
While I really like this arc, I think it would’ve really cemented it if after the “Martha” scene in BVS, when he went to save her he visibly goes out of his way to take out all of the goons holding her captivate non lethally. The change from blowing guys up in that scene to being the usual Batman, knocking them out and problem solving around killing them would make the arc that much better.
Yeah i also agree that they should have removed the explosions but i think the fight to save Martha is a representation of Batman fighting his way out of the deep dark pit that he has fell into during the movie.
That creates another problem though: It kinda makes his effort in saving Martha look half-assed. If he has to be SUPER careful not to badly injure or even kill people, it distracts him too much from the prime objective: To save Martha Kent no matter what. For Superman AND himself.
His step by step redemption really shows when he doesn't brand Luthor in prison. THAT'S when you see him changing. And then, of course, Zack Snyder's Justice League.
@@abonny thats... exactly. I agree
@@abonny I see what you mean. Maybe I over exaggerated in my original comment. I don't mean like tip towing around the bad guys I just mean taking out a room of guys like a Batman who doesn't kill would. He can still be brutal (see the Arkham Games) and not kill anyone and use guns to blow them up. I just have a hard time rationalizing that he has this big realization in the Martha scene that he's become Joe chill and is about to destroy a family similar to how his got destroyed. Then the next scene he is back to using guns and killing goons again. I will say though killing or not, the fight choreography in the scene where he saves Martha is still badass
this is worst batman after Clooney .even the fact that the whole cringe awful Martha scene happened cuz the world's greatest detective forgot to do the usual background check on the enemy he was aboutta fight was so frustrating and laughably bad ..
absolutely amazing content keep it up and great use of music
Indeed!
3:31 this line always struck me as so out of place. This edgelord speech meant to make Batman seem badass doesn't consider the larger context of his character. If Batman's redemption arc results from realizing that Superman is Clark Kent (a man who grew up as a human with a human mother), then he wouldn't have said this whole thing right before. It would've made the Martha moment (slightly) less stupid.
It's the difference between:
1) Wanting to kill an alien because he's potentially dangerous --> 2) Not wanting to kill an alien because he's very human
and
1) Wanting to kill an alien despite the fact that he's very human --> 2) Not wanting to kill an alien because his mom has your mom's name
I believe it has more to do with the fact that he is deluding himself. He's projecting his loss of faith in humanity on Superman. But he can't admit that to himself, so he uses an excuse of "he ain't human bro" to justify his anger. The movie is horribly vague, but if you connect his 1% speech, it kind of makes some sense. When Alfred tells him "He is not our enemy", Bruce uses his experience with HUMANS as a way to condemn Superman - "how many good guys are left? How many stayed that way?". So, from my interpretation, whether intentional or not, he deep inside knows Superman is human and is terrified that human can possibly have that power because he doesn't like humanity.
Sigh. It's not an "edgelord" line. It's set up. That line of dialogue tells us that Batman sees Superman as inhuman. And his parents as inhuman aliens too. This is what makes the Martha scene important.
By giving a human name to his mother, Superman makes Batman realize that he is human like him
@@brucesnow7125 It's not horribly vague. It just doesn't have uncessary exposition every five minutes like most blockbusters do these days.
That's respecting your audience
this is worst batman after Clooney .even the fact that the whole cringe awful Martha scene happened cuz the world's greatest detective forgot to do the usual background check on the enemy he was aboutta fight was so frustrating and laughably bad
its just garbage he stopped killing a dangerous person to the society cuz he has a mom but we never saw him does that to ppl he killed in the movie lol
Let's be honest, there are probably some Snyder fans who only like killer Batfleck because they think it's "dope as fuck."
About the dope thing he wasn't talking about the killing being dope as f**k he meant batman himself is looks dope as f**k and I agree he looks cool but Snyder ruined the point of batman
Because I see a lot of people spouting nonsense like "Snyder is an edgelord that just things lethal violence is cool" let me also set the record straight.
If you actually go in the trouble of searching Snyder's interviews instead of just recitiing the two that hitopfilms has used in his videos, you will see that he gave a very different justification for the way violence is depicted in his movies
Spesifically, he said that he believes that the way other comic book movies like the MCU showcase the violence and consequences of the heroes battling, with the cities basically being paper-cut arenas that have no real damage is irresponsible since in reality the way he depicts the battles going on is closer to what would happen.
So this is why he puts such emphasis on Batman's leathal scenes. To make his redemption arc more realistic and impactful. Not because he likes seeing him kill people and blow stuff up
Ok but Invincible did the same thing but I fell in love with how it was displayed, it had a reason and all the characters were very likeable
So Batman doing what he did in the way that it was done isn’t an excuse, if anything it’s more insulting that it could’ve been done much better
@@ninjanibba4259 And how prey tell would "much better" be in this case?
Because I think that the only way you could love what Invincible was doing while hating this, is that it was deconstructing the abstract idea of heroism with a new character. While this one was deconstructing a character you love. And not everyone has the stomach for that
@@thecabbageman1 no, the fact that it’s with a character I like is part of the problem, the execution is flawed either way with Batman cuz it’s told backwards, say if he was this brand new character I don’t know, I wouldn’t like him one bit and see him as a killer cuz that’s what he is here, the movie wants to say that he’s conflicted about being Batman the same way he used to be without showing us WHY he changed, he just says it and looks dumb while doing it, Batman is not a guesser, he is a detective and a through one at that, angry or not, that should jade him so much that he just does dumb crap
That’s terrible writing and like I said, it’s been done better in other things
@@ninjanibba4259 It does show us why he changed.
And him being a detective doesn't mean he is an infalible mary sue that never overlooks things or makes mistakes. Or be ruled by his emotions. That's a juvenile look on him that only literal parodies employ
@@ninjanibba4259 And yes. He is a killer and you are not supposed to like him. That's the fucking point of the fucking story
Meanwhile, at the warehouse...
It's a fair defence, but it's one for a wished-for Batman, not one that ever made it to the screen.
Exactly!
How so? It’s a defence of the Affleck Batman we got (in the UE and ZSJL anyways)
Batman does kill multiple times in the dark knight returns
You do know in dark knight returns he killed the kidnappers shot them point blank minutes before he made that speech right that made him basically a hypocrite
Also killed joker
@@elishawilson5342 ok but it’s just the joker
@@Mirrorcomics24 nope he killed the kidnapper shot him right in the head killing him as well as snapping the joker's neck
@@elishawilson5342 I’m not denying he didn’t, I haven’t read the comic but it’s just the joker.he’s a maniac
@@Mirrorcomics24 ik he is I'm just pointing out what a lot of fans are ignoring and showing them that Zack wasn't wrong in saying Batman killed in it that's all
I can't believe they gave Patterson The Batman.. that was Afflecks movie...
I like how u say that he missreferences the comic book where in that comic book the interaction between him and the crook with the big machine gun is the exact same as in the comic, but in the comic he shoots him directly in the head while in the movie he blows out the tank. And in that comic book he even kills joker by snapping his neck and lying to himself that joker killed himself.
Yeah Frank Miller's Batman is way more Nuts than his Canon version he really is Stuck gaslighting himself after he killed the Joker and he even said he had enough of the Joker in the Movie.
Two things:
-if Batman kills people, he's driving to Arkham and killing Joker.
-there's no way to effectively pull back from Batman killing people. 99% of his characterizations see killing as a definitive line you can't come back from
The writing for batman in BvS UE and the snydercut was on a whole other level, holy moly.
#restorethesnyderverse
#releasetheayercut