I'm British myself, had two grandads who fought in ww2 and 2 great uncles who were killed in ww1. I don't hold any hatred towards the Germans, even after the horrific stories my grandad told me or photos he had shown me. You can't hold a nation responsible for their ancestors actions. Every nation has a dark chapter, if you go back far enough. As a brit I'm not proud of things the British empire did in the past, and people still hate us for that hundreds of years later. Every German I've met has been very nice. The only rivalry we have with them these days is when it comes to the football. I think people should move on, and learn from past mistakes, and try to ensure it never happens again.
As a german nativ i have to say that it is nothing about the people but about politics. We cant only watch at out past (and with this i mean all countries around the globe) and forget what we do wrong actually. We germans cannot blame our ancestors for the third reich when three of our states (Brandenburg, Sachsen, Thüringen) are actually voting for a extremly right wing party (AfD) because our actual government (and a very big amount of all politicians) is corrupt and not doing its job correctly. The brits cannot blame their ancestors for beeing aggresive expansionistic and suppressing other nations without considering that scotland and Gibraltar for example are still suppressed. The americans cannot blame their ancestors for slavery without considering that they have heavy problems with police violence against black people. Every nation has a dark past and every nation have still problems with neglating humans rights in some kind of way. We all as humans have still a lot of work to do to create a place worth living in and all of us have a responsibility of what is still happen and what will happen in the future. And if we dont fight against corruption, bad politics and politicians and vote correctly, we will see that the past will repeat over and over and over again in every country of the world.
@@zoivac1048 what I meant by ancestors was the people before us. I wasn't insinuating every German at the time was to blame , I know many young men had no choice but to do as they were told. Everything is always about politics, and power and greed. And we all know the large majority of politicians are morons. And that goes for everywhere!
@@85stace85 i know what you meant, but a true steriotype about germans: "They are brutaly honest" 😂😅 So i am too ^^ That was not meant as an insult or offense, but i especially here in germany see many people are thinking that we are schooled enough and something like Hitler or the third Reich will never happen again. But this is not true at all. As you saw in this video the book/movie "Er ist wieder da" has reached a large popularity and the most people laughed at it without thinking about that this actually is what it is in our society. A man like Hitler could reach the might like the original one did extremely easy in every country and that is really scaring to me. Ive read the book and watched the movie and i have to say that the beginning of both is in fact really funny (it almost is satire), but the more you read/watch, the more serious and scary it becomes because it is so realistic. And the people claps and laugh and celebrate... As i said i doesnt wanted to offense anyone, but i wanted to give some kind of food for thought. That is all i wanted to do 👋 Ps: i am not offended by your comment about the germans, i am on your side. Honestly i am 😅 Peace ✌️
We Germans love you Brits too! I'am ashamed that we have nearly the same culture and same values but still fought like 75 Years ago... And it is also very sad that you left the EU.... Greetings from Germany.
basicall for me (and as far as I know most young germans) dont feel like we are responsible for the shit stuff our ancestors did, but we do feel the responsibility to not let shit like that happen again
@@Hansen710 what do you mean ? In Germany everyone has to lern english in school till 10th grade. And what should they engage in the world ? (i am not trying to be mean or anything ^^)
@@Hansen710why don’t you learn German? Why don’t u wanna engage with others to ask about their past? And why specifically should they learn English? You sound ignorant
Oh boy. So much to say. As a German. So: A. The „parents“ generation couldn’t deal with what had happened. They needed distance and forgiveness. Possibly trying to forget B. So it had to be the next generation bringing up the „how could this have happened?“ C. The stumbling stones to me are beautiful. Heart-breaking as they should be. I bow down and kneel and read every single one of them. welling up. On the day of the night of broken glass, many Germans polish the stumbling stones. Place a flower next to them. What makes them so relevant and affecting is: you will be reminded that in this house, your house people were taken, removed, tortured and killed. And now you are there. How can you not feel the pain?! As a gay man, there‘s a good chance I would have ended up in a concentration camp. Time for me to be grateful. Or what we call „the blessing of being born after“. I am not guilty of the past. But I sure am obliged to make sure nothing is forgotten. And hell yes, obliged to make today‘s Germany better. And see the signs if fascist ideas are in the rise. In Germany. Or anywhere. Great reaction. Thank you!
We (gay men) would not only have ended up in the concentration camp, but would also have been avoided by all other inmates. Internally, the camps had their own hierarchy with gays at the bottom of the pecking order. A large part of the inmates were transferred to "regular" prisons by the Allies after the "liberation". The laws were not changed until 1969 and were only abolished in 1994. And even today I still see myself exposed to attacks. So yes, humanity has not learned.
Your comments Arno show why modern Germany is worthy of all our respect. Every country has in its history made terrible mistakes. But for a country to fully admit that, absorb it, and learn from it - that takes a different type of "guts". Proud to have you as NATO allies, and a fellow-helper of Ukraine in its struggle against Putin's invasion. [From UK]
Greetings from Germany - I can understand that it is interesting why Germany did not start with analyzing its past right after the war even though it was the case in quite some instances, but the country itself had really other concerns in the first years after the war. A large portion of the infrastructure and houses were destroyed. Many people were driven from their lands that now belong to Poland. So there were millions of people that were homeless. That is of course not ment as an excuse, but it is understandable I think.
@@MoreJps That's not the reason at all. The simple truth is: The western allies enabled Germany to become what it is today. They had every reason to want her to stay down, it just didn't make any political sense - they NEEDED the buffer between the west and what they perceived to be the biggest threat of the coming decades, the Soviet Union. Now, the thing is: In Nazi Germany, if you wanted to get anywhere in your career, you had to be a member of the party - so most men were. And so many more directly or indirectly helped Germany commit those atrocities or profited from them: the military, the administration, politicians, big business, the media - the higher-ups were all party members, no exceptions. Have you heard of denazification? It was just lip service because if the allies HAD charged everybody who had incurred guilt, there simply wouldn't have been anybody left to govern what was to become said buffer between the east and the west. 95 % of those who should've been punished - just weren't. So many party officials got off scot-free. Nazi judges who had broken the law time and again to commit countless murders kept dispensing justice. Nazi officials who were living in nice jewish houses and apartments (having sent the original owners they stole them from to the concentration camps) stayed mayors, senators, ministers. Propaganda staff kept working as journalists and editors. Countless thousands of them who belonged in prison just kept living their lives, and they REALLY didn't want anyone to remind them of their guilt. But they also kept having children, and when those were old enough, they saw the injustice and started asking questions, and they didn't accept "We don't talk about that in this family" for an answer. The late sixties were an era of upheaval, of serious civil unrest in Germany - in the US, it was about segregation and civil rights, in Germany, it was about being governed by people who were nazis in all but name and who never got punished for their crimes. The murder of the student Benno Ohnesorg in 1967 kickstarted a development that would lead to the students laying the groundwork for the change Germany needed to become the country that really faces up to its past.
@@Zorros2ndCousinTwiceRemoved Excellent description. Yours and Jens Barlaus comments together deliver a proper background Knowledge. The late 60s protests had a massive impact on how Germany faces their past today.
@@Zorros2ndCousinTwiceRemoved Historically, you both have the correct information. Considering that well into the 1960s in particularly devastated regions, families of 6 to 16+ people in small Accommodation (2-4 rooms) lived, they had other priorities. In this context, from 1949 onwards, the "Persil-scheine" were issued: if someone who was known or convicted as a Nazi wanted to practice a profession, they needed a confirmation of their character. Preferably from someone who a) had nothing to do with the Nazis or b) was even a victim. So how do you get a certificate from such people? -> by making promises to them depending on their profession. (For example, as a building authority employee or social services employee, issue appropriate certificates that family A gets a housing certificate or family B an extra allowance. (corruption)
8:18 I agree. Having them in the pavement has multiple advantages for example that they stick out of the grey pavement much more than out of the potentially more colourful facades, that when you read them you inevitably bow your head and probably most importantly that property owners can't object or prevent them from being installed since they're on the pavement which is public ground while wall plaques are installed on the buildings itself requiring the owners consent.
All the Germans I ever met were very kind, generous, correct people. I'm all in favour of truth, but then a lot of very bad propaganda has been cast on a people that do not deserve that as a whole.
a bad propaganda example is that Germans are without humor. according to nowhere days stereotypes. Germans have a sense of humor, its just less superficial
In school we also learn a lot about history. My school is named after the siblings Hans and Sophie Scholl, who were members of the „Weiße Rose“ (White rose), an organisation against Nazis and Hitler. On their Death Day we have a whole year in which we learn more about their story, WWII, Antisemitism then and today and also how to stand up against discrimination, hate speech and more. At all the WWII is a really big theme. Not only in history lessons but also in German, religion, politics and sometimes even music classes. In the 12. class one can make a Berlin trip (where everyone who wants rides to Berlin for a week). I was there this year and we were in a lot of museums and at all talked and learned a lot about WWII. When we are riding with our class to the last school trip we‘ll visit a concentration camp because we, as students wanted to go because we think one should see one once in their life to really realise what happened in WWII. So I think it’s right and important to learn a lot about that time so it never happens again.
I like the stones on the ground. As a tourist, I would probably not notice the ones on the wall, but I would notice something different about where I was waking, hence "stumbling stone", I guess.
Joel, you said on the other site that history wasnt you thing... we are seeing here again you absorbing history... not only the actual events... but the reactions and involvement of people both then and now. You are showing the features o09f an excellent historian... questioning... reasoning, comparing versions, reacting , drawing conclusions, and based on evidence making prediction. We all saw a wonderful side of you joel in this vlog. Keep it up young man... your comments during this would earn honours as an assignment in a masters history class
You asked: Is that really so ? Yes. I, for example, often asked my grandfather what the war was really like. He was very hesitant to answer, and it was obviously uncomfortable for him. But I also understand that it is difficult for a young man who has been deprived of his best years (22-27) to talk about it. My grandma often took me aside and said: Don't ask grandpa so much - he will tell you when he is ready for it. Very difficult topic.
Agree. Pretty much the same in my fam. Found out about the truth about my grandmother years after her passing. She did what she had to do to raise her kids alone, as her husband was with the Luftwaffe In Africa.
Hey, I'm a polish living in germany and I quite enjoy your reaction videos about it. You dont stop every god damn second to comment on some pointless stuff. Good job man
4:35 As a German, I think these interviews are not cherry-picked. Something I really appreciated by the original video from Rachel. I agree with you, that the people are still "dumb" enough to have ideas like that again. We have a lot of Germans that are thinking enough is enough and we "can't take any more foreigners in our country" and "2015 shall not happen again" (imho: It should not happen again for the catastrophe the people went through. Taking care of the refugees was a big task that wasn't a big problem). And this is by no means a German problem. Reasons for Brexit were right wingers offering simple solutions to complex problems... and always xenophobia. And that was voted by the people.
I had both an English grandfather and a German one (of Polish descent). One fought in Europe in WW1 against the Germans and the other one quickly distanced himself from Germany itself while never denying he was German. There was no animosity between them and they lived a street apart here in Australia.
The idea behind the stumble stones was that you have to bow down or even get on you knees to read them. In that way showing your respect to the murdered people.
In the middle east (and also in Israel) trampling on something or even throwing a shoe at something is taken as a display of great disrespect. So I can understand the opposition to this form of memorial too.
@@henrischutte1968 Well, if I see someone intentionally step on one of those stones, it tells me what type of creature I have in front of me and can take appropriate action. It's better than to let this sort of evil grow and fester in the dark.
@@henrischutte1968 I agree. In many cultures touching something with your feet is considered dirty and terribly disrespectful and considering it was a Jewish community leader who voiced that opinion I am glad they listened
To be able to reflect on the past, you have to have a personal distance. Untill 1955, when the last POW came back from the USSR, many people where focused on rebilding - a lot of them where directly involved, be it as soldier, party member or silent witness. It took until the late sixties, after the children born after the war went to university, that the discussion became more personell. And the sight regarding the war has changed even later - it was the speach of Richard von Weizsäcker, the then president of West Germany, in 1985 that helped shine a light at the connection between January 1933, September 1939 and May 1945.
Ah yes, the "Kniefall". I really love those German compound words. Using a word like "genuflection" really is insufficient to convey the full meaning of that moment.
Thirty-one years old German here. I think it depends a lot on the age group. Especially our younger generations have "made their peace" with Nazi era Germany and feel no more _or_ less past guilt or responsibility to uphold peace than anyone else; what does stick even with us is a wariness of patriotism. Germans looking upon loud American patriotism with discomfort is not uncommon, and it's clear where it comes from. Many of us don't have national pride, but rather maybe pride in things that we or our nation do; note that distinction in phrasing. And I think that's really a good way to display the difference in how we think. To close out, I'll quote something I've said often in my life: "I'm not German, I'm human."
Regarding min 2:30, you must not forget that for the first 10-20 years after the war, the German media, social establishment, government, schools and economy was still full of many, many so called "Old-Nazis" and those obviously didn't wanna hear any uncomfortable questions. Those ranged from people who just had normal job positions under the Nazi regime and came back to their jobs with the same old mindset and to full-on nazis who were just hiding their old beliefs. That's just part of the answer obviously.
That indeed is the main reason. The old Nazi were still in important jobs, in government, in administration or as judges. That had to be overcome first. That started with cultural revolution in West-Germany (coined "die 68'er Generation") in the late sixties mainly by the students.
Konrad Adenauer said that you can't throw away old water if you don't have fresh water. But unfortunately, far too many old Nazis have returned to high positions and have died old and respected without being hold to account.
One thing I clearly noticed when I visited Germany decades ago (the point being that at the time there were still a lot of Germans who had lived through the war) was their huge generational difference. They felt like two different countries and cultures in one. Older Germans had a lot of the negative stereotypes usually associated with them, like tending to be curt, austere, rigid, self-restrained, and way too serious. By contrast, younger Germans born after the war were far more open, outgoing, relaxed, flexible, had a great sense of humor, not rarely bent some rules, and were very much interested in humanitarian causes, more than any other people I've seen. I know that there were some external factors, like the Marshall Plan, the huge U.S. military presence there during the Cold War bringing many cultural influences, open borders with the rest of Europe, etc., but it still felt more like they decided to reinvent themselves, start from a blank slate, and break up with the past, even beyond Nazism. I also know that in addition to the war, the 1960s (contraception, hippies, Beatles, pacifism, etc.) also revolutionized social relations and behavior everywhere, not just in Germany, but nowhere was the generational gap more striking than what I saw there. This contrasted very much with what I saw in Switzerland --- another mostly German-speaking country with many cultural affinities with Germany, but a neutral country where the war had much less impact than elsewhere in Europe. The Swiss remain very much old-time Swiss, doing Swiss business as usual, and there are not a lot of generational differences. Everything is so similar to Germany, but at the same time the vibes are completely different. Unfortunately, I didn't visit Austria. I'd have liked to see how it compared.
the reason why 'the first generation' didn't want to talk about it, was that back then culprits still had to fear serious charges (in the beginning even death sentences). one of my grandfathers (who died before i was born, so i never got the chance to talk to him personally) must have been 'quite involved' (not just as a 'random german 1930ies opportunist', but as an 'actual real die-hard nazi'), but he never spoke about that to my father and his siblings. according to the childhood memories of my father he probably was still pretty well connected to 'the old guard of nazis' up until the 60ies - something my father only understood, when he got older and when my grandfather already had passed away. this 'network of old nazis' mainly seemed to support each other in regards of staying under the radar (moving to some remote rural area, probably faking a disability that would have made him 'less suspicious' and so on). allegedly the allies searched for 'people of his kind'. only when he passed away (my grandmother was already dead at that point) and my father and his siblings found some old documents, this 'friendly old fella' didn't seem so nice anymore ... yeah, that's the stuff you (sometimes) have to deal with as a german. it's not about some 'vague ancestors from the distant past'; it's the actual people, whose pictures hang/stand around your (or your parent's) home or you'll find in family photo albums. that of course makes it way more personal than the idea, that 'someone in the 19th century _might_ have owned slaves'. so, to all of those non-germans _and_ germans(!) saying, i should leave the past behind, i only can say: you have no idea, what that actually means! does that mean, i'm personally responsible for what my grandfather and his peers did? _of course not!_ but if guys like my grandfather would have faced the consequences, he probably would have deserved, i wouldn't be here. and _that_ makes the whole situation _very different_ ... and no! the german flag has nothing to do with that (german neo-nazis hate it btw)! that's a completely different topic: as a symbol for the republic i like it, but it's 'too abstract' for me to wave it around sheepishly as a symbol for my _personal_ identity. as a symbol for a 'united nation of all germans' i don't like it too much, as it would include bavarians and saxons (and i'm 'too tribal' to want to put myself in the same category with them). that's like asking a proud scotsman or a northern-irish catholic to wave around the union jack - a symbol, that also refers to the english monarchy. (and on a side note: "the great dictator" was not a silent movie, but the first sound film of charly chaplin. some of the greatest lines in movie history came from that: "we think too much and feel too little", "you don't hate! only the unloved hate - the unloved and the unnatural!" ...)
I just wanted to write a comment like this. The fact that someone from the USA can watch this without thinking about their own dark past and the way it's being dealt with.
@@raygoro3446 How do you know he hasn't thought or is thinking about the history of his own country. Just because he wants to know like the Germans (myself included) about the past of ours country think and act accordingly or not. Do you know him personally? I think many Americans are well aware of the historical "atrocities" committed in their name and are acting accordingly. So we don't need generalizations here!
I want to say two things: one about the different opinions here in Germany and one about the question: "Did some people living in that time really not know what was going on?". To point 1: yes, we have many points of view here, how we should handle it. The people in the video give a good perspective about the different points we discuss here. All comes down to this question: is there a time we can leave this all behind us? And the answer is: yes and no. Most of the people who were living under that regime aren't alive anymore. For most people born and raised in Germany, it is usual to not be a racist. It is common to have friends all over the world, travel, learn about other cultures and so on. It is just NORMAL not being a racist. On the other hand, racism has evolved over the years, not only in Germany. It became pretty common for far right people to say that there are not Nazis, but the others are! We face a new kind of racism nowadays, cultivated by right wing parties like the AfD here in Germany, who is getting bigger and bigger. The AfD says: we have to forget the past, we should be proud of our country. And on the other hand, they use the same words in their speeches like popular members of the NSDAP did. And Putins "argument" for the war in Ukraine was: there are Nazis in the Ukraine we have to fight. That is the reason we should never forget what happened here in Germany: it can always come back again. To point 2: I talked to several people living in Nazi Deutschland. I asked the question: did you really not notice what was happening around you? One man gave me an interesting answer, who was working in a factory near a concentration camp: "Well... on my way to work I drove past it nearly every day. It smelled kind of strange.... Neighbours were suspecting about the rumours that people were brought there to be murdered.... to be honest: I knew it. There was no way not to know it. But I was afraid. I said to myself that it is TOO cruel to be true. It can't be. I tried to get it out of my head. I just don't wanted to know that. I wanted to be wrong. I couldn't handle it at any time. So I went to my daily business, just doing my job, knowing I was right... and not be able to do anything against it....". The biggest enemy is not the enemy around you. Youself can be the biggest enemy. Those people want to forget because of shame, want to do it better today. We all know this feeling. And every old woman or man I met who was living in these times are some the greatest fighters against racism today. Maybe because they were not able to do it in the past...
there is a song by a very well-known German rock-metal band about the German past. The band is called Rammstein and the song Deutschland. Watch this video, which is very impressive, with English lyrics. It will surely impress you very much
Two remarks: 1. I am German, from the first generation after the war. So I met a lot of war participants, German ex-soldiers, when I was young. None of them wanted to talk about the war. But after some alcohol there were two groups. One group started bragging about what they had "achieved" geographically after demobilization after World War I from a relatively small country. Whereby one should not forget that most of the former soldiers had extremely limited horizons: a lot of them had never been out of their village or town before the war began and knew the world mainly from the Nazi-"Volksempfänger", the radio in the local inn. And then in the war, the great colourful world. Perhaps in France, suddenly they were somebody. No longer just the insignificant little Fritz from the local blacksmith shop but, at first anyway, the victors, important people. The victors with power over life and death. The other group fell into complete silence, perhaps out of guilt or shame. 2 Germany was rebuilt and shaped after the war by the same people who had participated in the war. This was true for the workers as well as for the intellectuals. Interestingly, the post-war intellectuals at the levers of power were the same as the pre-war intellectuals at the levers of power. By the way, this was especially common in the judiciary, the administration, the secret services and, of course, the armed forces. Existing know-how counted. Who do you think wanted to wake sleeping dogs among these people who had made arrangements? The motto was: Forward to a better future. The culture of remembrance then really began, above all, with the next generation. I think this is understandable and comprehensible. In honor of my father's generation, however, I would like to point out that it was the teachers of this generation who repeatedly taught us about the war, National Socialism and the Holocaust in school, and I personally never experienced any of these teachers trying to whitewash or downplay things.
Another important factor that I haven't seen mentioned in any of these videos is a law that states that we need an academy or ministry for political education. From elementary school on, kids learn about democracy, how different political parties work, how to read their parties program/goals (later on... around grade 9 or 10), how the government is set up or how laws are made. This is to ensure that people make informed decisions, independent decisions, and try to keep them away from falling for paroles and extremist views. Schools curriculums include mandatory politics/sociology classes by law.
Thank you Joel for being open to tackling the big issues. Your willingness to learn about the world and it's history is admirable. Never quite know what you will feature next. Enjoyed this John
I had two experiences in Frankfurt when I first worked there in the nineties. One was my German manager showing me around Frankfurt and telling me that ‘Bomber Harris’ had destroyed various landmarks, then at the end he said ‘well, I suppose we did start it’ and then we went to a bar and drunk some great German beers. He said he felt like asking his grandparents, how could you let this happen? My second experience was talking to a younger colleague and he said that in his opinion the European Union was a great thing as it kept Germany in check, his opinion was that there was a side of Germany that was always far right. I loved my time in Germany and still have friends there who I see often.
That was a good video Joel and I agree with you that Germany does deal with its past. For context, my grandfather and great uncles fought in World War 1 in the British and Canadian armies, my father was World War 2 and Cold War, and I was Cold War and Bosnian War. During my military career, my German colleagues would comment that we could be proud of what our parents did during World War 2, but they looked at their parents’ generation with shame, as if the were all on drugs and nuts! That was a perspective I had never contemplated. My grandfather was a prisoner-of-war and some of my classmates’ fathers had also been prisoners-of-war. Some of my high school teachers were World War 2 veterans from both sides! My better half’s grandfather was Luftwaffe infantry, serving in Army Group North, at the Siege of Leningrad. He and I used to have great chats about the war, and I would take him to the officers’ mess to socialize, where he was always warmly received and peppered with questions. In my view, the duty of present-day Germans is not to perpetuate guilt, but to preserve history and example as a warning, so that no other nation is tempted to go down a similar path. Before the war, Germany had one of the most advanced cultures in the world, in the arts, architecture, philosophy, music, science, engineering, and technology, yet in only 12 years (1933-45) it destroyed itself and changed the world forever. A warning indeed. Great choice of videos and reaction Joel. John in Canada
So I'm proud to be German; and also because of our history. So first of all, Germany has a history of over a thousand years, not just 12 years. In Europe, Germany was an important source of inspiration and ideas in all areas of society, be it technology, culture, philosophy, science, etc. Germany also had a democratic tradition. One can be proud of how Germany has developed after WW2. A country worth living in was built from rubble, it has a stable democracy and it is facing up to the responsibilities arising from its history. This is precisely where it differs from other nations in the world. For example, the USA and slavery, UK, France, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands and their crimes from the colonial era, Russia and the crimes of the USSR and the conquests from the Tsarist era, Turkey and the Armenian genocide and also Japan and its crimes in WW2. You can see how important it is to be honest with yourself, especially with Germany in Europe. Reconciliation and close cooperation between Europeans would probably never have been possible if Germany had dealt with its history the way many other nations do with their dark histories. In many parts of the world, relations between peoples are poisoned because people do not face their history. Society in the USA is still suffering from racial issues. As a German, you can also see the difference, as other countries do not admit the crimes they have committed against Germans. There were also war crimes committed by the victorious powers, including the expulsion of millions of German civilians from their ancestral homeland. What is often missing is an admission of guilt and an apology from the Allies, Russia and other Europeans. Simply saying that Germany has started is kindergarten level. Germany knows who started WW2. But you can't justify everything with that.
honestly what always stuck to me most when learning about our history was a concentration camp visit in 9th grade. As far as I know it's actually mandatory to visit Dachau (concentration camp near munich) as a school trip in bavaria. 9th grade history lessons are entirely focused on 1933 to 1945 (approximately) anyway, but actually seeing gas chambers etc made it feel more real to me.
Germans learn how Jews died but nothing about how they lived. Jews first settled in Germany in the early Middle Ages around 700 AD but Germans don’t know that.
Germany has learned the importance of freedom... the hard way. Germany today is one of the most open and progressive nations on Earth. Opinions diverge massively... because we're allowed, even encouraged, to have divergent opinions. Having witnessed the woke-stupidity-driven death of free speech in the USA, I feel significantly more free in Germany than I do in the States.
A question back at you: How do you think the USA is handling it's dark history? You know, genocide of Native Americans, Slavery and still very present racism, even in government (why is race always a question on American forms?) Not that easy to answer, huh? Look, the main difference is, Germany had to face and process it's past. The USA and especially the UK... never really did. It is not much talked about. Hell, Schoolbooks in some Texan areas claim the slaves were guest workers...
For us in Germany the memorial institutions also have the idea to remember and to teach people how vulnerable a democratic system can be. They also remember, that a society, that values human rights, liberty and democracy should not be taken for granted from above. It is something that every german has to work for in every company or authority or institution of your state, even in your family, football-club or within your friends we have to keep this in mind. Young germans like me are not responsible for the things that happend. But we are responsible for the future to prevent an attack of our democratic system.
As a German. in my younger years i thought "Why the fuck should I be responsible for what our ancestors did? Yes, it was the absolute horror. But what has our generation to do with it?" Later I realized that it is not about guilt. It's about this dark history never, never ever repeats. And we still fight against populism, stupidity of the masses and assholes proclaiming "easy solutions" for big problems. Thank you for this open and fair reaction!
Why Germany didn't start to adress their 'guilt' right after the war? Well, for once, the country was destroyed and millions of refugees needed help. Then, the very people, who often were responsible for the former government, were now in charge in rebuilding the country and communities and wanted everyone to forget about their involvement. Only a fraction was hold responsible, mostly big names or people who did unspeakable crimes. And for a lot of people there was a big part of shame involved, when the complete thruth was unveiled after the war, which was often rumours before and therefor easier to ignore. The 'Aufarbeitung' (processing) of the events really started to get more serious when the following generations started to question about what happened and why.
For the why it wasn't an immediate effort. Well after 1945 there were largely two groups in Germany, those who had been members of the Nazi party and those who weren't really supporters of the nazis but still chose to go along with the regime. And problem is that, despite the fact that this generation liked to say otherwise, given how Nazi Germany worked and the number of concentration camps etc. they all had to more or less know what was going on and either supported it or chose to ignore it. So after 1945 this generation didn't want to talk about the Nazi regime because that would mean having to face the question of what they individually could/should have done. So the Erinnerungskultur (engl. remembrance culture) only started to become a thing when the children of this generation started to ask their parents the question of where they were and what they had done during the Nazi regime (which was of course quite the "explosive" question to ask)
The long shadow of our past. We Germans and Austrians have to ask ourselves a few questions again and again in every generation: Why could these violent crimes, why could euthanasia and the Holocaust happen in Germany? How responsibly do we deal with our past and the guilt of our ancestors? Or to put it the other way around: Why couldn't Hitler, why couldn't a state policy on race and extermination be prevented? How could this criminal war of aggression and annihilation happen? As Germans, in whose name this crime was committed, we have an obligation to take responsibility for ensuring that the victims are at least not forgotten. Because dealing with Hitler's approval dictatorship and the crimes of the National Socialists is necessary to make sure where you stand.
I think this should be viewed in comparison to what other countries are doing for "Vergangenheitsbewältigung" (one of our mammoth word, meaning: tackling your own past). The German atrocities of the past are just inescapable, very public and very in the open, plus they're still a favourite Hollywood trope, so there's no chance of "let's just forget about it". (Plus germans have proven to be seriously maticulous record keepers, which is mind-boggling in the middle of exterminating millions, but has prooved really valuable when examining the past.) You shouldn't compare atrocities, but I always found it really interesting how other nations adress their (maybe not so open) dark pasts - do Russian kids learn about Stalins mass extermination of millions in schools? Do Southern US kids ask their grandparents about the Lynchings or if their forefathers owned slaves? Do British kids learn about the Bengal famine or the mass shooting of thousands of peaceful protesters and other colonial atrocities? Do Chilean kids ask their families what they did during the Pinochet regime? This is not meant provocatively or rhetorically: I really hope they get as bombarded with information as my German generation was. Understanding that this is not some far-off barbaric culture doing horrible deeds like this, but that your own people and your own kind are capable of it - that is the only way to really understand history and to grow from it.
05:40 I agree with you on that one, as famous German general Erich Ludendorff believed that peace was merely the interval between wars, and that the nation's chief duty was to provide the means with which to conduct war.
Germany recognizes the guilt and bears responsibility for ensuring that this can never happen again. However, many other countries - such as the USA - do not sufficiently educate the population about the horrors for which they themselves are responsible. For the "free and open international order" promoted by the United States since 1945 has cost the lives of 20 to 30 million people worldwide. Experts estimate that for every war dead, there are ten more displaced. This means that the number of people wounded by U.S. wars must run into the hundreds of millions. I really don't think that the citizens of the US are aware of this.
And yes with the interviews, this sums up the widespread public opinions. They are quite different, even though some of the interviewees gave quite a two sided answer, which I think represents the overall average.
About "Er ist wieder da" (Look who's back, literally more like He is back): loved the book, hated the movie! Definitely a good read vut migjt be difficult for non germans as it taps into a lot of contemporary german social culture. And I'm happy you think we deal well with our dark past. How about you guys being next? I know you like to tell yourselves that the US was founded on "democracy, freedom and justice for all". I say in reality it was founded on two centuries of genocide and slavery. Discuss.
Greetings from Hannover, Germany - To say the least, it is quite a nice take and a good overall view about the situation and the way we deal with the topic. The differences in opinion are quite great, mostly depending on how many experiences a person itself could gather. Someone who grew up, facing antisemitism, will surely give a different answer to the question. Speaking for me, I spent 3 full years of history lessons going through nazi germany, the holocaust, the end of the weimar republic and the end of the third reich. Sadly to the neglect of more recent history, about the DDR, involvement in Afghanistan, Cold War etc. It's not like these topics weren't presented, but more like brushed over, than explained in detail. The late start of the "Vergangenheitsbewältigung" (dealing with the past) can be put to two main arguments. On one hand, it is true, that the old people had enough of it. Coming out of a war, having seen all the bad, gruesome and brutal things, they didn't want to talk to others about it, even less think about guilt. There are stories about my grandparents (grandfather born in 1916, grandmother born in 1924) and how they behaved in front of their children. There simply was no talk about it. On the other hand, the new germany after the war needed workers. And if you would kill or imprison all people that were part of the NSDAP or a nazi per se, you would leave germany with no one to work it. So a lot of people got their actual jobs back, supervised by americans, french, soviet or english people, but nazis after all. Only due to time, these people were slowly replaced. But at the start, these persons had to be nazis, since no one else was around.
but Henning, you should not forget, as somebody here earlier has pointed out, most people in administration, big business etc. had no choice but to become member of the party to avoid discrimination for themselves and their children. (Comparable to the DDR). When one looks at foreign films about that time, every simple soldier was named nazi, which is just not true. And that never changed. When I read some comments made by compatriots that the majority of the population were followers of AH is pure propaganda. Even if some come up with personal experiences with some germans, whatever their thoughts might be, it will be subjective. Because to make a statement like that, one would have to be able to talk to 10.000s of people, which is impossible during the lifetime of just one person. To close my comment I add just this: the regeneration of our past is impossible because of this "history is written by the winner(s)"!
So, German guy here, 26 years of age. Far as I was told, by my grandmother and the people teaching history class both in my year and the year of my older brother, the reason it was not immediately talked about was a mixture of multiple factors. First off - we were occupied after the war. Doesn't matter if by the allied forces, or the ussr in the east of germany, the topic of Hitler and the Nazis was not per se taboo for germans, keep in mind most of those who lived back then were avid supporters of the regime, it was an influence of the occupation. FFWD a few years and the cold war felt its way through germany, being the closest line to the actual conflict at the time, and understandably we had bigger things on mind than the past, mainly being the reappearance of tanks and guns in the streets of Berlin. Along with other stuff happening, of course, such as the suppression state of east germany, the iron curtain problem and such. Konrad Adenauer, a very popular figure in german politics back in the day, stood up to american, french, british joined occupation leaders and did the power move of sort of wrenching back control over western germany into a german's hands and under stark supervision succeeded in doing so, under the proposition of cooperation with europe (- for reference look up the coal pact, it's around that time, and marks the birth of the creation of what would eventually become the EU, as well as the basis for the birth of NATO) From that point Naziism and the third reich were talked about, debated vigorously and people were figuring out what to do to prevent another uprise. Here, as well as later on in history, German leaders, chancellors and other political positions, would also travel to important sites of the war and the holocaust on somewhat spiritual missions, there is a very popular image of some figure, i forget who it was on the spot, kneeling in front of a holocaust memorial in poland, the site of the biggest concentration camp. FFWD a couple more years, skipping the reunion, fall of the iron curtain and all of this and the grand solution germany came up with was a policy of 'don't hide, teach, talk, remember' - this means it is not a taboo topic. Sure some older folks will be cautious speaking their mind but it's fine. It's a mandatory school subject in both politics and history to talk about how this happened, why this happened, how it was possible in the first place, and what exactly happened afterwards. As for the military point you make in the video, i don't believe we're stocking up because history repeats itself, europe for the past years since the world war ended was all in all a fairly peaceful place. (Ignoring of course the big conflict in the east rn) Our military is as big as it needs be in case an Article 5 (NATO, anybody in the pact gets attacked we're contractually obligated to send forces to aid). And because of Article 5 NATO, we're not too worried of an attack because let's face it, yes America is great but you know what is better? ALL THE BEST MILITARIES IN THE WORLD AS A UNIT. And that's pretty scary to attack into. Our main arming efforts go into defense systems, because the only thing that can hit us realistically is a long ranged missile attack of some kind. In conclusion, talk about the shit that happened. it'll prevent more shit from happening.
Today, german military sank so low in power, evn The Netherlands would be able to overpower us. Our european neighbors all learned from early mistakes: "If you want to stand a chance against the Germans, you need the same material as the Germans." That is why german tanks, firearms and other military technologies are such bestsellers in Europe - besides the fact that it is FINEST QUALITY. I mean ... PUMA IFV, BOXER Multi Role Combat Vehicle, LEOPARD tanks, the new Rheinmetall KF51 PANTHER, WIESEL paratrooper/recon tank, Eurofighter TYPHOON, Heckler&Koch firearms .... list goes on and on.
Joel, With regard to the 'stumbling stones' issue in Munich (a city which I love!)... I suspect that the use of removed, defaced and broken Jewish (cemetery) headstones as pavers at a number of concentration camps may, understandably, have a lot to do with sensitivity of this issue.... especially in a beautiful city which was once the cradle of the Nazis movement. Enjoy seeing your wide ranging interests mate! Keep it up! (Yes! I'm an Aussie!!!)
I think it's great that Germany faces its history straight on, and don't teach an edited story that's less uncomfortable, like some countries do.. (the US comes to mind..) I find it disgusting how there are statues of prominent people fighting for the SOUTH during the civil war in the US. Can you imagine being a jew/homosexual/handicaped (or any other group the nazis hated), if parts of Germany had statues and praised prominent nazis.. And parts of your community still had the nazi flag outside their house... And in school, they glossed over the whole "incident", as if it never happened.. Even though Germans today had no part in it, it's good that they are told the truth. I do feel like they could celebrate their national day, and show some national pride at this point, but the humility they've shown, and how serious it's been taken is great! I feel for black and indigenous people in the US, especially blacks in the south, where statues and flags, representing those who fought to keep black people inslaved, can still be seen all over the place! Swiping the ugly truth under the rug is not the right approach, essentially when it still effects a large portion of the population!
3:48 You know immediately where that woman stands politically. I'd eat my hat if she didn't vote AfD in the last elections. People like her are reason enough to continue to make the NS-regime a topic and continuously and tirelessly educate people on it because those who forget or fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it and considering the devastation, the utter slaughter of the innocent and industrial genocide in ours that's a risk we simply cannot afford to take...
Even in Italy there are these plaques in memory of those deported to Nazi concentration camps. Unfortunately, these miniature monuments are sometimes vandalized by fascist thugs
4:24 Let me put it this way: Those that are the most annoyed with it and are calling to "finally shelve it" the loudest are usually also the people you play with the thought of repeating it all but this time "make it a success". The thing is that as long as they teach us how the Nazis managed to play the people to get in power those elements will have a really hard time using those same tricks to do it again but once we stop educating people in history and recognizing those patterns and their tricks, those tricks will work just as well again as they did in 1933.
German from Hamburg here. While I can accept the Central Jewish Council's differing opinion and decision to remove the stones from the ground in Munich so nobody can step on them, and have them mounted as plaques on walls, I still believe that the original concept was better. People usually watch where they are going. When something shiny pops into our field of vision, something out of the ordinary, removed from the uniform grey of cobblestone pavement, then you take care NOT to step on it. So even if you don't factually stumble over the stumbling stones, you might slow or even halt your strides. By mounting them on the ground, and have the names, dates of birth and death engraved, it makes people reflect on it. It causes the pedestrian to bow their head automatically, which also induces a pose of solemn respect. While plaques mounted at adult head height often tend to be overlooked. Believing that haters of such memorials would refrain from damaging either the stones or the plaques is weirdly naive. When it comes to talking about the war and the atrocities you'll have no problem in Germany at all. The only thing modern Germans ask is to be respectful to the victims' memories. With that caveat out of the way, ask whatever you want to know. Germans won't hold back, and definitely won't hold it against you.
If I compare the way German children are taught about WW2 and say Australians and the Stolen Generation, Aussie kids don’t come even close to really having to coming to terms with the atrocities that were committed. I think the same could probably be said of British colonialism and probably also if slavery in the Americas. People really aren’t prepared to reflect on the hard reality that the countries and societies we live in are founded in murder, theft and domination.
@@Michael_from_EU_Germany we only know how many people were murdered because the Nazis made records. We have no idea how many cultures were completely exterminated during during the entire period of global European colonialism.
I think the man`s statement is very good that our current generation is not to blame for the war , but it`s important to talk about it so that crimes like this never happen again. Many parents of the direct post-war generation could not to talk to their children about the war, because they were so traumatized themselves. Many soldiers had experienced so many terrible crimes that they had seen mass murders or had lost comrades, they were broken men when they came back. Some women had also been raped and couldn`t talk about it. That`s why the topic was hushed up in many families in Germany , because the children knew what their parents went trough in the war. Our family spoke openly about it my paternal grandfather died in Stalingrad /Russia when he was only 38 years old. My other grandfather fought in Hungary but returned home unharmed at the end of the war. He had also seen many terrible things that he had told us, it was also very difficult for him to see other people dying in front of the eyes. My grandfather had also said that the SS units were pure killer commandos without heart and conscience. He had seen personally how the SS- man burning houses in Hungary.They were so evil. He himself was a normal soldier in the Wehrmacht.
Hello Joel. I stayed with the family of a former German soldier in Frankfürt. He had served in North Africa and was a POW held by the US. He asked about my family in the war. I told him my uncle was a POW from North Africa, captured behind the lines by Italians , but later being taken by the Germans to mine coal in Silesia. He was delighted that he met someone who knew about where he served and said he was so glad the US took him as not all POW from Germany were well treated. I thought it best to omit that the Italians had no food for either guards or POW and my uncle escaped only to have his teeth knocked out on recapture by rifle butt. I also missed out how he got away from Silesia to Odessa and I was told he was made a military policeman and sent to "look after" nazis after he got in a fight with Italian POWs celebrating VE day, back in his home town. You know, don't mention the war. DW have a duty as a national broadcaster to be unbiased. There is a definite anti war sentiment, as you might expect, in Germany. I only made friends there, but I am typically British when it comes to not backing down, so my attitudes are not always like those of some of the very generous Germans in the video.
We have changed, we are not those of the 1930's, we have jobs, inflation is reasonable and there is no real threat to our country. We are knitted into the EU are we want to stay here, even if there is a war raging not too far away. We have learned our lesson well, but not all of us, rather sadly.
in my opinion, we have kind of the wrong priorities with the rememberance culture sometimes. because there is so much focus on guilt, when what should be examined in a lot of detail is the mechanism behind populism and authoritarianism. people are falling for shit like the afd again because they dont understand that scapegoating and just straight up lying is how they get you, and guilt isnt the best motivator to stay vigilant once the generations who are actually responsible for what happened die out. and then there is the fact that while the holocaust has a lot of attention, other awful things that need to be recognized dont. most people dont even know that germany had colonies, or that we committed massacres there. or that we too have structural racism, and not just dumbass rightwingers. like im not saying put less attention to the holocaust, but give as much attention to the other stuff we did too, so we can actually start to solve it.
I am German and European. Personally, I believe that the EU was the best invention to bring the people of Europe together in peace. Despite all its faults. Unfortunately, people in the UK have not understood that the EU is more than just an economic structure that you leave when you don't like it. It is much more than that.
i have a really big problem with the argument that stumbling stones cant be set in the ground... first of all,.. the house owner would need to give consent to put it on his wall... which you wouldnt get in many places. the second problem i have is that 98% of all people were happy with it being in the ground, and a few had to argue about it,.. so most of the time,.. instead of being commemorated with the stumbling stones,.. those stones are never put up, because you arent allowed to put them in the ground in some places,.. you arent getting the permission to put them on the wall,.. so they are just thrown out.
We have huge departments of defenses, because the US makes us have them. They spend more money on military than the next 25 countries combined and 24 of them are allies. And then they are trying to guilt us into spending more. While the US social security is basically non existant. US homelessness is rampant, healthcare is the leading cause of bankruptcy, you have more people incarcarated than any other country in the world.....etc. Military spending is not that neccessary as the US wants to think it is. Granted it is a bad year to say that because of Putin. But the Ukraine was spending 3bn USD on average before 2020, now it's 5bn and Russia is still struggling. Russia spent ~65bn. Military spending is not the end all be all, Ukrainians mobilized themselves when they got attacked. You do not waste all that money on a hypothetical.
I'm in a similar situation: my nation China had a conflict with Japan till the end of WW2. The conflict started long before the Second World War began. The Japanese committed terrible war crimes - even Hitler was appalled - such as the Nanjing massacre and human experimentation at Unit 731. Yes. My grandparents survived the war, but they lost some blood relatives. Unfortunately, my grandfather hated the Japanese until his last day. I met a few Japanese students when I was at university and they are like every else: you, me and others. I bared no grudge against Japanese individuals. Those I met are friendly people. Unlike the people of Germany, the Japanese do not know much about their nation's recent past because they weren't taught.
It is very, very difficult as a foreigner to recognize that a country has shifted to the right because you don't know the language. A good example of this is Ukraine. After Maidan 2014, Ukraine made a shift to the right. After that, school books were rewritten, the children learned at school that, for example, Russians are not people but animals. Children's songs were written Ukrainian for men who fought for the German SS in the 40's and these men were then revered as heroes in Ukraine. You don't get it abroad because you don't speak the language, not to mention that our media doesn't report about it either. Personally, a donation box has been held under my nose twice. where one should donate for the Ukraine. I rejected both times with the reason that I don't support Nazis! Which then always ended in fundamental discussions about what was actually going on in the Ukraine.
Really good and fascinating short vid,Joel,a rare upvote from me : a bit closer to home for you,also note the Tennessee district banning of Art Spiegelman's 'Maus'
In the village 5k where I grew up, there is a concentration camp cemetery of a subcamp of Dachau. In the early 80s, the cemetery was desecrated by swastika graffiti, our school classes removed this disgrace. A good day.
I think this is a secondary benefit these memorials have - aside from keeping the memory of the victims alive. In a way, they function like those film badge dosimeters that workers in nuclear power plants are wearing. Those dosimeters show if the person wearing them has been exposed to radiation. Memorials can perform a similar function for society, except they're indicators for the presence of hatred.
What a great topic and great video to analyse. It was also good to hear your views as a new generation coming through. You're the future. And you're right. Power greed is dangerous. Be careful of extreme right in the USA it can happen all over again. Greetings from Australia
You're so right about humans NOT coming to their senses. I think we may be a little better, but as a human society... the same thing is still going on in places like North Korea (they've got no idea) with a leadership like that. There are many countries with rulers trying to retain outdated ancient laws that have no purpose in todays society.
Personally Speaking I dont think hunger power and greed are all that humans have to offer the world, I think these things get balanced out with kindness and compassion and friendship. The bigger problem is people being brought up in a cycle of revenge, And punishment for things which happened in history. Part of the reason for building the common market then the EU was to join countries together in such a way war would be self destructive and to cultivate friendships.
Well, if your country is bombed to the grounds and occupied by foreign powers, you actually do have quite practical reasons that distract you from dealing with this chapter and reflect it, put effort in prevention work and education. Where do you educate without schools anyway? Being ashamed when more horror stories of what really happened came to light didn't help either. And there's always the question of 'How could you not know!? It's impossible!', but what many people have known was that they might be arrested or beaten, if they don't chear the Führer loud enough, or god prevent, didn't chear and applaud at all. What they did know where disturbing things happening in their own neighbourhoods*, to create fear. And what they did know was all the propaganda bombarding them. Many could have guessed what was happening, but could they even imagine the full scale of this horror? I doubt it. * a quite disturbing episode I learned from my grandmother was the cruelty not towards jews but handicapped people, children mostly (and I wish there'd be a spoiler or nsfw feature): At one day the Nazis gathered all people of the village on the village square. They had captured all handicapped people of the area and put them there, telling the folks that their handicap was a sign of degeneration, because the Aryan blood was thinned. Than they started to kill those people, and as most where children, they did not waste ammunition on them, which would be horribly enough but at least a fast and less cruel death - no, they took them by their feet and smashed them against the wall untill they stopped screaming and moving. In front of their parents, their neighbours, in front of everyone. In front of other children. And this is a story we got told when we were still children ourselves. Another thing I still remember, when a friend of my grandma was around and they talked about the past, which they seldomly did, was regarding young men of the village, who did not want to fight in this war and tried to hide, how families tried to hide them, in attics, in cellars, including the families of my Grandma and her friend. And how the Nazis found them anyway. They stopped talking there and usually stared in the distance. As a child I always thought they were sent to war then (which I found horrible enough, even if I might had not understand what war really means). But as an adult and after learning more about this era I became aware that they most likely simply got executed right away. Probably in front of the families hiding them, as part of the punishment against them. And that the reason that both women then in their 70's stopped talking at that point maybe wasn't just that the men died. But that they died while they had to watch. Similarly to Russia today, although the scale is not this huge (yet), it's easy to blame the citizens for not preventing what happened. For not standing against the dictatorship. But the mix of brainwashing propaganda (and look around, there's so much disinformation and propaganda on this planet!), repression of other opinions or even opposition, and terror against the own people if they fight back, is a crude one that can silence or break most everyone. That doesn't mean that there is no guilt. But honestly I'm not sure if I would be brave enough to openly fight against a new dictator, facing torture and death of me and my loved ones. And as a last word: You might be shocked that it took over one decade until Germany started this. But I am rather shocked that very most countries, including the US, hardly ever talk and teach about their dark history. But instead glorify the rest of it or even deny that anything bad had happened.
fun fact: because Muhammad Ali was Muslim he requested his walk of fame star to be on a wall so people wouldn't step on the Prophet Muhammad's name it would be interesting to see a 'how Japan deals with their dark past' video or even one about the US
During my apprenticeship we had to go to Buchenwald because years before us a guy had said awful things so the company said that it should be shown to everyone what happened 80 years ago. It was really awkward (for the lack of a better word) most of the time. Many buildings and stuff were gone but there was enough to look at still. Still gives me goosebumps.
I'm a German student and our whole 9th grade went to a concentration camp. I think many (when not all) students go there during their school time or their whole life. We also read a book "The Wave" (a book about a class who thinks that there will never be something like the Nazis again and it shows that these things can happen easily). I knew about the Nazis, WW2 I think before like I was 12 maybe even when I was 10. As she said it is often on TV so kids learn about it too. (I can't remember if we learned a bit in elementary school (or "Grundschule")) A thing too is that in history we will learn about Nazis up from 9th grade I think every year, we get really deep into it as far as I know. For me, I think we are not guilty but we have to assure that something like this never happens again.
The stumbling stones were meant to stumble across the history of real people in real houses in real neighborhoods, forcing you to realize that history is not just a story of the past but has happened in reality and everywhere - Of course everybody knew that neighbors were deported… Maybe they thought or hoped they were brought somewhere else and not killed, but even if so it was unjust and should have been enough to realize something’s going the wrong way. On the other hand looking at the situation in Russia, Ukraine, Hungary and lots of other countries in the world minorities like homosexuals are being suppressed, imprisoned or even killed for being just what they are or believe… And people go the easy way and take the propaganda lies to be true. That’s what made Brexit and Trump possible - People voting against their own interest.
I grew up with lots of education about WW2 and all our ancestors did, as soon as I was old enough to understand what it means. But even as a child I was told that the swastika is a forbidden symbol that absolutely cannot be painted or drawn anywhere. I also remember that we were singing the national anthem in primary school. Not because we had to, but secretly, for fun. We knew that there was a forbidden verse from Nazi times and it made the whole anthem seem almost like something criminal. We were genuinely worried about getting arrested back then, and we didn't even sind the verse in question. I personally don't have a lot of national pride or anything. But it is not just about our history, but also about globalization and other issues, as well as some things within our country that I find a bit questionable. There is a growing divide between rich and poor, as there is everywhere probably, and I am studying now, but my family is from the poor side, so I have seen a huge range of different living realities, especially of younger people whose only differences lie in the success of their parents. Yeah... Not a big fan of many things. But I really like your videos. And I am still thankful to be born here, it is a very nice place with a high standard of living, and my life as it is now would not have been possible in many other places. I also do hope that history won't repeat itself, even if it is basically still going on, just not in front of our doorstep anymore.
I grew up with the same, but I will never understand that showing a religious symbol is forbidden. In Hinduismus, Buddhismus and Jainismus the swastika is a symbol of luck. In Hinduism the swastika symbol is commonly used before entrances or on doorways of homes or temples, to mark the starting page of financial statements, and mandalas constructed for rituals such as weddings or welcoming a newborn. Hindu altar often have Swastika symbols. In Buddhism, the swastika is considered to symbolise the auspicious footprints of the Buddha. The left-facing swastika is often imprinted on the chest, feet or palms of Buddha images. It is an aniconic symbol for the Buddha in many parts of Asia and homologous with the dharma wheel. The shape symbolises eternal cycling, a theme found in the samsara doctrine of Buddhism. In Jainism, all Jain temples and holy books must contain the swastika and ceremonies typically begin and end with creating a swastika mark several times with rice around the altar. Jains use rice to make a swastika in front of statues and then put an offering on it, usually a ripe or dried fruit, a sweet, or a coin or currency note. The four arms of the swastika symbolise the four places where a soul could be reborn, heaven, hell, human or animal before they reach the end of the circle of birth. And in Asia the swastika is a symbol for the 'source of good fortune' That the Nazi misused that sign doesn't give us Germans the right to forbid it's use and I will never understand it. No one forbids to show a cross because Hitler was born a Christian. I understand that they forbade the symbols of the SS or the flag of Hitlers party, etc, but not that they forbade a symbol used worldwide in religious ceremonies. They clearly overshoot the mark.
My own grandparents, did not speak about Hitler and the Nazis. Grandpa was a prisoner of war, but was lucky to survive it. Granny had to find food to raise my dad. She walked for miles to beg for a helping hand. They suffered a lot. Grandpa only told once, it was the military or death. BUT after this long time, there are no witnesses anymore and a lot of people want to have back the good old days of traitors to mankind, liars, spying out their neighbors. This idiots, like you said do not learn a lesson. You, be safe and sound. Elmar from Germany.
"Grandpa only told once, it was the military or death" Well depends what Grandpa meant with that. Sure he had to serve and fight other soldiers. But that's exactly where his service ended, even back then. After the war you saw A LOT of former soldiers who claimed that they had to follow illegal and immoral orders on the threat of death. All of that was a lie. There is not a single case known where a soldier was somehow thrown into prison or even shot for not murdering civilians when ordered. In fact soldiers had to come forward to be considered in these units and if their unit was ordered from the officers to take part in these actions they could just opt out.
@@TyonKree That my very well be so. But, I loved my Grandpa, he had suffered as a Russian prisoner, that might not be enough in YOUR eyes, but, he was a humble man, who was respected, working at the production belt, by some of the higher ups, as well as from the "lowest". Because of him, I learned to show respect to EVERYONE until they were disrespectfull to me. God bless you. Elmar from Germany.
@@TyonKree you have to remember that a lot of "normal" people were afraid of their lifes. I know from one of my grandpas (my grandma told me, cause I was too young, when he died), that he was some kind of Engineer on a ship, and he had nearly finished an Engineer training, when the war was over. So I'm not sure if he had ever a man to man combat. He looked like the German Stereotype that was hyped. Tall and blond. My grandma did not. She was smaller and looked more like a Sinti or Roma, with pitch black hair and even with fainter skin her features didn't really look "German" (sorry, I'm not sure if that is the politically correct word right now, i don't want to offend if not, I'm just totally confused by now, what the right word would be for those groups 😅). So yeah, she had to have her passport on her all the time and even her family tree to prove, that she was german and not get arrested. It was way better, when she was dating and going out of the house with him. Anywhen else, she litterally feared for her life and that of her family and of course my grandpa was afraid, mostly of what would happen to her, if he would not be there. And my grandpa was arrested, for something simple like surfing during the war and had to spend time in jail. And I know he was defininitely not someone who liked what the Nazis did. But both my grandmas mentioned, that you even were afraid to say something, cause you could never be sure who would rat you out if you even talked against the nazis. So I don't know how it would have been, if my granddad (both of them were soldiers in the war, my other grandma even lost her first husband in the war. Her second, my granddad from that side died before I was born, but I was told, he did not want to talk about his time in battle and seemed to be traumatized about that topic) would not have gone to the military. I can't even imagine how that was, living through that time, but according from the few things I was told from the people who actually lived through it, everyone had to think about what he/she would do and what could happen afterwars to himself/herself and their loved ones.
I´m German, 52 years old. And I´m quire sure, nearly no nation reflects its dark chapters as done here. And you see story repeating when looking to russia today. It´s really sad, that we can not really unite in Europe for peace, freedom and progress but still have to much of this old rivalism in the air.
I’m an Aussie but lost 133 family members in the Holocaust - mostly in auschwitz and Stutthof concentration camps. Germany however has done a lot to not hide from its history and to educate not only itself but the wider world to avoid making such mistakes again. Personally, I love Germany - been many times and have always enjoyed my time there. I will say that in European terms one is much less likely to encounter antisemitism there now than in some other countries. Also, the fact that the sort of truth and reconciliation process didn’t begin immediately after the war is understandable - there was a lot going on. The country was heavily bombed, borders were changing, the Cold War was becoming apparent and the partitioning of east and west Germany. Coupled with, I’m sure, the shame and disbelief that many ordinary Germans must have felt when the edifice of nazism came tumbling down and the curtains were finally opened on the horrors that had been committed for all the world to see.
Probably the most decisive and deeply moving event of my life was when my father took my brother and I to a concentration camp memorial and I saw the pictures of the atrocities. The people who didn't look like people anymore because they were emaciated to the bone. The numbers about the number of dead, of murdered. I was shocked (I'm born in 1966) Even if I am not personally to blame, I feel a great responsibility, which I intend to share with everyone in this world, that something like this must never, ever happen again. These days it is becoming more difficult to remember the atrocities, because almost all of the eyewitnesses have died. The question is how can we convey to the younger generation a feeling for the suffering of the people, the victims. I got to know a few more Nazi victims, whom I have the greatest respect for, because they went to the schools to tell the children and young people about their suffering, which they had to endure anew every time they reported it.
Im AUS. I had 1 great great grandad fight in the boer war and WW1. 3 others in WW1, one died. Then 2 great grandads in WW2, then 1 grandad in WW2. so thats 7 total who fought in wars. (Possibly 8 but idk of the 8th is a realitive) Ive never blaimed a country for their deaths, its stupid if u do. Germany has a dark history yes and all countrys do, but here in Australia Aboriginal peoples werent aloud to vote just over 50 years ago, and before that colonisers kidnapped their children (the stolen generation) and tried to turn them "white." This went on alot longer than WW2, No country has a clean slate for a past.
I call the "Stolpersteine" path as what it is, the "German Walks of Shame". My girlfriend, a girl from rural Devon, southwest England, calls them "Remembering Stones", even though she understands the subtleties behind the name "Stumbling Stones" very well in the German context. Won't say it's a pun, but something similar in a deeper sense.
Have humans learnt their lesson from the world wars? You only need to look at the Russia/Ukraine war to get your answer. As a 12yo child I was on holiday with my parents and we met a German child around my age which I befriended but my first question to him was what he thought about Hitler. I was being very insensitive now looking back, he was very uncomfortable, but I was just being curious. It certainly goes with what the presenter said, don't mention the war. I'm with you JP on the plaques on the ground, I think they serve a good purpose and I don't think it's disrespectful at all.
These different opinions exist, yes, but it is only the bandwidth that is shown, not the majority/minority distribution/how many people are in this or that boat. That's a different question. Don't fall into the false balance trap ;-)
In my personal opinion (cause my partens and grandparents were dedicaded to imprint all taboo's in you so u never overstep) not only WW II was a big Problem, but the same responsability goes for slavery and so on. I had a very difficult Childhood cause was not able to handle all the Sadness, Pain usw. the People had to endur and feel all the Time, so i never visited a KZ cause only the Thought about i hit me so Hard i could not breath or Think propaly. So Today, more or less, im skipping these Topics cause i can't handle it and get very emotinonal when those topic's come up.
„Why would we continue to invest in our Defense and increase spending if it wasnt for our human nature.“ Well… I think this is a very US-American perspective. The budget of the US is so overblown and the reason is profit, not the need for an almighty military
I would disagree there. The US is the defacto sovereign of the western world, and if you want to be a sovereign, you have two options. Either you dominate your subjects with fear, or you offer then services and benefits for their loyalty. The US is mostly doing the second, but one major service they provide is security. Why does europe payed so little for its military? Because we could rely on the US. Could we defend ourselfs if we wanted? Easily, if we wanted we could even have a similar sized military. We just needed to scrap out social security systems to pay for that. Its not for profit per se, its because the US wants to stay world leader and sovereign.
Statistically, we have fewer and fewer wars in the world. So we are definitely evolving for the better. Of course, it could go faster and there are setbacks from time to time, but the trend is clear.
There you have a great example that words in German can have way different meanings. As kids we had a game called 'Teekesselchen"where we found a word with 2different meenings.
I'm British myself, had two grandads who fought in ww2 and 2 great uncles who were killed in ww1. I don't hold any hatred towards the Germans, even after the horrific stories my grandad told me or photos he had shown me. You can't hold a nation responsible for their ancestors actions. Every nation has a dark chapter, if you go back far enough. As a brit I'm not proud of things the British empire did in the past, and people still hate us for that hundreds of years later. Every German I've met has been very nice. The only rivalry we have with them these days is when it comes to the football. I think people should move on, and learn from past mistakes, and try to ensure it never happens again.
As a german nativ i have to say that it is nothing about the people but about politics.
We cant only watch at out past (and with this i mean all countries around the globe) and forget what we do wrong actually.
We germans cannot blame our ancestors for the third reich when three of our states (Brandenburg, Sachsen, Thüringen) are actually voting for a extremly right wing party (AfD) because our actual government (and a very big amount of all politicians) is corrupt and not doing its job correctly.
The brits cannot blame their ancestors for beeing aggresive expansionistic and suppressing other nations without considering that scotland and Gibraltar for example are still suppressed.
The americans cannot blame their ancestors for slavery without considering that they have heavy problems with police violence against black people.
Every nation has a dark past and every nation have still problems with neglating humans rights in some kind of way.
We all as humans have still a lot of work to do to create a place worth living in and all of us have a responsibility of what is still happen and what will happen in the future.
And if we dont fight against corruption, bad politics and politicians and vote correctly, we will see that the past will repeat over and over and over again in every country of the world.
@@zoivac1048 what I meant by ancestors was the people before us. I wasn't insinuating every German at the time was to blame , I know many young men had no choice but to do as they were told. Everything is always about politics, and power and greed. And we all know the large majority of politicians are morons. And that goes for everywhere!
@@85stace85 i know what you meant, but a true steriotype about germans: "They are brutaly honest" 😂😅
So i am too ^^
That was not meant as an insult or offense, but i especially here in germany see many people are thinking that we are schooled enough and something like Hitler or the third Reich will never happen again.
But this is not true at all.
As you saw in this video the book/movie "Er ist wieder da" has reached a large popularity and the most people laughed at it without thinking about that this actually is what it is in our society.
A man like Hitler could reach the might like the original one did extremely easy in every country and that is really scaring to me.
Ive read the book and watched the movie and i have to say that the beginning of both is in fact really funny (it almost is satire), but the more you read/watch, the more serious and scary it becomes because it is so realistic.
And the people claps and laugh and celebrate...
As i said i doesnt wanted to offense anyone, but i wanted to give some kind of food for thought.
That is all i wanted to do 👋
Ps: i am not offended by your comment about the germans, i am on your side.
Honestly i am 😅
Peace ✌️
We Germans love you Brits too! I'am ashamed that we have nearly the same culture and same values but still fought like 75 Years ago... And it is also very sad that you left the EU.... Greetings from Germany.
Im sorry but if you’re British, you can’t really hold any grudges against someone for something their ancestors did😂
A german comedian once said, that germans are proud of not beeing proud. For me, the quote summarizes my feelings quite well.
actually.... that fits so well and ive never heard of it, gotta remember that one.
@@Foatizenknechtl Böhmermann im Lied "Deutsch"
basicall for me (and as far as I know most young germans) dont feel like we are responsible for the shit stuff our ancestors did, but we do feel the responsibility to not let shit like that happen again
why doesent more young germans learn english then ?
why dont they want to engage in the rest of the world if they dont feel any responsibility
@@Hansen710 what do you mean ? In Germany everyone has to lern english in school till 10th grade. And what should they engage in the world ? (i am not trying to be mean or anything ^^)
@@Hansen710 Easy to answer: Germans speak english and engage in the rest of the world continuously. Are Germans perfect? No. None of them.
@@Hansen710 Funny. We can actually fail school if we fail the english subject. It was taught to me from 3rd - 10th grade and even during traineeship.
@@Hansen710why don’t you learn German? Why don’t u wanna engage with others to ask about their past? And why specifically should they learn English? You sound ignorant
Oh boy. So much to say. As a German. So:
A. The „parents“ generation couldn’t deal with what had happened. They needed distance and forgiveness. Possibly trying to forget
B. So it had to be the next generation bringing up the „how could this have happened?“
C. The stumbling stones to me are beautiful. Heart-breaking as they should be. I bow down and kneel and read every single one of them. welling up. On the day of the night of broken glass, many Germans polish the stumbling stones. Place a flower next to them. What makes them so relevant and affecting is: you will be reminded that in this house, your house people were taken, removed, tortured and killed. And now you are there. How can you not feel the pain?! As a gay man, there‘s a good chance I would have ended up in a concentration camp. Time for me to be grateful. Or what we call „the blessing of being born after“.
I am not guilty of the past. But I sure am obliged to make sure nothing is forgotten. And hell yes, obliged to make today‘s Germany better. And see the signs if fascist ideas are in the rise. In Germany. Or anywhere.
Great reaction. Thank you!
Me to, I had a tear in my eye reading this
@@Michael_from_EU_Germany ❤
@@MrThomas864❤
We (gay men) would not only have ended up in the concentration camp, but would also have been avoided by all other inmates. Internally, the camps had their own hierarchy with gays at the bottom of the pecking order. A large part of the inmates were transferred to "regular" prisons by the Allies after the "liberation". The laws were not changed until 1969 and were only abolished in 1994. And even today I still see myself exposed to attacks. So yes, humanity has not learned.
Your comments Arno show why modern Germany is worthy of all our respect. Every country has in its history made terrible mistakes. But for a country to fully admit that, absorb it, and learn from it - that takes a different type of "guts". Proud to have you as NATO allies, and a fellow-helper of Ukraine in its struggle against Putin's invasion. [From UK]
Greetings from Germany - I can understand that it is interesting why Germany did not start with analyzing its past right after the war even though it was the case in quite some instances, but the country itself had really other concerns in the first years after the war. A large portion of the infrastructure and houses were destroyed. Many people were driven from their lands that now belong to Poland. So there were millions of people that were homeless. That is of course not ment as an excuse, but it is understandable I think.
And there were also thousands of old Nazis in the medical, judicial and political professions to be found way into the 80’s
Yea that makes a lot more sense
@@MoreJps That's not the reason at all. The simple truth is: The western allies enabled Germany to become what it is today. They had every reason to want her to stay down, it just didn't make any political sense - they NEEDED the buffer between the west and what they perceived to be the biggest threat of the coming decades, the Soviet Union.
Now, the thing is: In Nazi Germany, if you wanted to get anywhere in your career, you had to be a member of the party - so most men were. And so many more directly or indirectly helped Germany commit those atrocities or profited from them: the military, the administration, politicians, big business, the media - the higher-ups were all party members, no exceptions. Have you heard of denazification? It was just lip service because if the allies HAD charged everybody who had incurred guilt, there simply wouldn't have been anybody left to govern what was to become said buffer between the east and the west. 95 % of those who should've been punished - just weren't. So many party officials got off scot-free. Nazi judges who had broken the law time and again to commit countless murders kept dispensing justice. Nazi officials who were living in nice jewish houses and apartments (having sent the original owners they stole them from to the concentration camps) stayed mayors, senators, ministers. Propaganda staff kept working as journalists and editors. Countless thousands of them who belonged in prison just kept living their lives, and they REALLY didn't want anyone to remind them of their guilt.
But they also kept having children, and when those were old enough, they saw the injustice and started asking questions, and they didn't accept "We don't talk about that in this family" for an answer. The late sixties were an era of upheaval, of serious civil unrest in Germany - in the US, it was about segregation and civil rights, in Germany, it was about being governed by people who were nazis in all but name and who never got punished for their crimes. The murder of the student Benno Ohnesorg in 1967 kickstarted a development that would lead to the students laying the groundwork for the change Germany needed to become the country that really faces up to its past.
@@Zorros2ndCousinTwiceRemoved Excellent description. Yours and Jens Barlaus comments together deliver a proper background Knowledge. The late 60s protests had a massive impact on how Germany faces their past today.
@@Zorros2ndCousinTwiceRemoved Historically, you both have the correct information.
Considering that well into the 1960s in particularly devastated regions, families of 6 to 16+ people in small
Accommodation (2-4 rooms) lived, they had other priorities.
In this context, from 1949 onwards, the "Persil-scheine" were issued: if someone who was known or convicted as a Nazi wanted to practice a profession, they needed a confirmation of their character.
Preferably from someone who a) had nothing to do with the Nazis or b) was even a victim.
So how do you get a certificate from such people? -> by making promises to them depending on their profession. (For example, as a building authority employee or social services employee, issue appropriate certificates that family A gets a housing certificate or family B an extra allowance. (corruption)
8:18 I agree. Having them in the pavement has multiple advantages for example that they stick out of the grey pavement much more than out of the potentially more colourful facades, that when you read them you inevitably bow your head and probably most importantly that property owners can't object or prevent them from being installed since they're on the pavement which is public ground while wall plaques are installed on the buildings itself requiring the owners consent.
at some places there are simply no buildings left. But the pavement is.
I actually take care to not step on the "stumbling stones" when I walk thru the streets.
All the Germans I ever met were very kind, generous, correct people. I'm all in favour of truth, but then a lot of very bad propaganda has been cast on a people that do not deserve that as a whole.
Agreed
a bad propaganda example is that Germans are without humor. according to nowhere days stereotypes. Germans have a sense of humor, its just less superficial
In school we also learn a lot about history. My school is named after the siblings Hans and Sophie Scholl, who were members of the „Weiße Rose“ (White rose), an organisation against Nazis and Hitler. On their Death Day we have a whole year in which we learn more about their story, WWII, Antisemitism then and today and also how to stand up against discrimination, hate speech and more. At all the WWII is a really big theme. Not only in history lessons but also in German, religion, politics and sometimes even music classes. In the 12. class one can make a Berlin trip (where everyone who wants rides to Berlin for a week). I was there this year and we were in a lot of museums and at all talked and learned a lot about WWII. When we are riding with our class to the last school trip we‘ll visit a concentration camp because we, as students wanted to go because we think one should see one once in their life to really realise what happened in WWII. So I think it’s right and important to learn a lot about that time so it never happens again.
Ich denke mal da wir zuviel lernen jedes mal müssen wir uns mit hinterl in irgendeiner Richtung beschäftigen
Ihr seit die Zukunft. Danke! ☮
I like the stones on the ground. As a tourist, I would probably not notice the ones on the wall, but I would notice something different about where I was waking, hence "stumbling stone", I guess.
Joel, you said on the other site that history wasnt you thing... we are seeing here again you absorbing history... not only the actual events... but the reactions and involvement of people both then and now. You are showing the features o09f an excellent historian... questioning... reasoning, comparing versions, reacting , drawing conclusions, and based on evidence making prediction. We all saw a wonderful side of you joel in this vlog. Keep it up young man... your comments during this would earn honours as an assignment in a masters history class
You asked: Is that really so ? Yes. I, for example, often asked my grandfather what the war was really like. He was very hesitant to answer, and it was obviously uncomfortable for him. But I also understand that it is difficult for a young man who has been deprived of his best years (22-27) to talk about it. My grandma often took me aside and said: Don't ask grandpa so much - he will tell you when he is ready for it. Very difficult topic.
Agree. Pretty much the same in my fam. Found out about the truth about my grandmother years after her passing. She did what she had to do to raise her kids alone, as her husband was with the Luftwaffe In Africa.
Hey, I'm a polish living in germany and I quite enjoy your reaction videos about it. You dont stop every god damn second to comment on some pointless stuff. Good job man
4:35 As a German, I think these interviews are not cherry-picked. Something I really appreciated by the original video from Rachel. I agree with you, that the people are still "dumb" enough to have ideas like that again. We have a lot of Germans that are thinking enough is enough and we "can't take any more foreigners in our country" and "2015 shall not happen again" (imho: It should not happen again for the catastrophe the people went through. Taking care of the refugees was a big task that wasn't a big problem).
And this is by no means a German problem. Reasons for Brexit were right wingers offering simple solutions to complex problems... and always xenophobia. And that was voted by the people.
I had both an English grandfather and a German one (of Polish descent). One fought in Europe in WW1 against the Germans and the other one quickly distanced himself from Germany itself while never denying he was German. There was no animosity between them and they lived a street apart here in Australia.
The idea behind the stumble stones was that you have to bow down or even get on you knees to read them. In that way showing your respect to the murdered people.
In the middle east (and also in Israel) trampling on something or even throwing a shoe at something is taken as a display of great disrespect. So I can understand the opposition to this form of memorial too.
@@henrischutte1968 Well, if I see someone intentionally step on one of those stones, it tells me what type of creature I have in front of me and can take appropriate action.
It's better than to let this sort of evil grow and fester in the dark.
@@henrischutte1968 I agree. In many cultures touching something with your feet is considered dirty and terribly disrespectful and considering it was a Jewish community leader who voiced that opinion I am glad they listened
Cause of Willy brandt
Many ppl meet up intone a year and clean those stones. I like this way of paying respect and remembering.
To be able to reflect on the past, you have to have a personal distance. Untill 1955, when the last POW came back from the USSR, many people where focused on rebilding - a lot of them where directly involved, be it as soldier, party member or silent witness. It took until the late sixties, after the children born after the war went to university, that the discussion became more personell. And the sight regarding the war has changed even later - it was the speach of Richard von Weizsäcker, the then president of West Germany, in 1985 that helped shine a light at the connection between January 1933, September 1939 and May 1945.
Ah yes, the "Kniefall".
I really love those German compound words. Using a word like "genuflection" really is insufficient to convey the full meaning of that moment.
Thirty-one years old German here. I think it depends a lot on the age group. Especially our younger generations have "made their peace" with Nazi era Germany and feel no more _or_ less past guilt or responsibility to uphold peace than anyone else; what does stick even with us is a wariness of patriotism. Germans looking upon loud American patriotism with discomfort is not uncommon, and it's clear where it comes from. Many of us don't have national pride, but rather maybe pride in things that we or our nation do; note that distinction in phrasing. And I think that's really a good way to display the difference in how we think. To close out, I'll quote something I've said often in my life: "I'm not German, I'm human."
Regarding min 2:30, you must not forget that for the first 10-20 years after the war, the German media, social establishment, government, schools and economy was still full of many, many so called "Old-Nazis" and those obviously didn't wanna hear any uncomfortable questions. Those ranged from people who just had normal job positions under the Nazi regime and came back to their jobs with the same old mindset and to full-on nazis who were just hiding their old beliefs. That's just part of the answer obviously.
That indeed is the main reason. The old Nazi were still in important jobs, in government, in administration or as judges. That had to be overcome first. That started with cultural revolution in West-Germany (coined "die 68'er Generation") in the late sixties mainly by the students.
Konrad Adenauer said that you can't throw away old water if you don't have fresh water. But unfortunately, far too many old Nazis have returned to high positions and have died old and respected without being hold to account.
One thing I clearly noticed when I visited Germany decades ago (the point being that at the time there were still a lot of Germans who had lived through the war) was their huge generational difference. They felt like two different countries and cultures in one. Older Germans had a lot of the negative stereotypes usually associated with them, like tending to be curt, austere, rigid, self-restrained, and way too serious. By contrast, younger Germans born after the war were far more open, outgoing, relaxed, flexible, had a great sense of humor, not rarely bent some rules, and were very much interested in humanitarian causes, more than any other people I've seen.
I know that there were some external factors, like the Marshall Plan, the huge U.S. military presence there during the Cold War bringing many cultural influences, open borders with the rest of Europe, etc., but it still felt more like they decided to reinvent themselves, start from a blank slate, and break up with the past, even beyond Nazism. I also know that in addition to the war, the 1960s (contraception, hippies, Beatles, pacifism, etc.) also revolutionized social relations and behavior everywhere, not just in Germany, but nowhere was the generational gap more striking than what I saw there.
This contrasted very much with what I saw in Switzerland --- another mostly German-speaking country with many cultural affinities with Germany, but a neutral country where the war had much less impact than elsewhere in Europe. The Swiss remain very much old-time Swiss, doing Swiss business as usual, and there are not a lot of generational differences. Everything is so similar to Germany, but at the same time the vibes are completely different. Unfortunately, I didn't visit Austria. I'd have liked to see how it compared.
May I ask where you are from?
@@Lindemalm, I'm from Brazil.
the reason why 'the first generation' didn't want to talk about it, was that back then culprits still had to fear serious charges (in the beginning even death sentences). one of my grandfathers (who died before i was born, so i never got the chance to talk to him personally) must have been 'quite involved' (not just as a 'random german 1930ies opportunist', but as an 'actual real die-hard nazi'), but he never spoke about that to my father and his siblings. according to the childhood memories of my father he probably was still pretty well connected to 'the old guard of nazis' up until the 60ies - something my father only understood, when he got older and when my grandfather already had passed away. this 'network of old nazis' mainly seemed to support each other in regards of staying under the radar (moving to some remote rural area, probably faking a disability that would have made him 'less suspicious' and so on). allegedly the allies searched for 'people of his kind'. only when he passed away (my grandmother was already dead at that point) and my father and his siblings found some old documents, this 'friendly old fella' didn't seem so nice anymore ...
yeah, that's the stuff you (sometimes) have to deal with as a german. it's not about some 'vague ancestors from the distant past'; it's the actual people, whose pictures hang/stand around your (or your parent's) home or you'll find in family photo albums. that of course makes it way more personal than the idea, that 'someone in the 19th century _might_ have owned slaves'. so, to all of those non-germans _and_ germans(!) saying, i should leave the past behind, i only can say: you have no idea, what that actually means!
does that mean, i'm personally responsible for what my grandfather and his peers did? _of course not!_ but if guys like my grandfather would have faced the consequences, he probably would have deserved, i wouldn't be here. and _that_ makes the whole situation _very different_ ...
and no! the german flag has nothing to do with that (german neo-nazis hate it btw)! that's a completely different topic: as a symbol for the republic i like it, but it's 'too abstract' for me to wave it around sheepishly as a symbol for my _personal_ identity. as a symbol for a 'united nation of all germans' i don't like it too much, as it would include bavarians and saxons (and i'm 'too tribal' to want to put myself in the same category with them). that's like asking a proud scotsman or a northern-irish catholic to wave around the union jack - a symbol, that also refers to the english monarchy.
(and on a side note: "the great dictator" was not a silent movie, but the first sound film of charly chaplin. some of the greatest lines in movie history came from that: "we think too much and feel too little", "you don't hate! only the unloved hate - the unloved and the unnatural!" ...)
I'd be fascinated to see you react to a video on how the US deals with its dark past.
second that
Third that
I just wanted to write a comment like this. The fact that someone from the USA can watch this without thinking about their own dark past and the way it's being dealt with.
@@raygoro3446 How do you know he hasn't thought or is thinking about the history of his own country. Just because he wants to know like the Germans (myself included) about the past of ours
country think and act accordingly or not. Do you know him personally? I think many Americans are well aware of the historical "atrocities" committed in their name and are acting accordingly. So we don't need generalizations here!
USA : "which dark past?"
I want to say two things: one about the different opinions here in Germany and one about the question: "Did some people living in that time really not know what was going on?".
To point 1: yes, we have many points of view here, how we should handle it. The people in the video give a good perspective about the different points we discuss here. All comes down to this question: is there a time we can leave this all behind us? And the answer is: yes and no. Most of the people who were living under that regime aren't alive anymore. For most people born and raised in Germany, it is usual to not be a racist. It is common to have friends all over the world, travel, learn about other cultures and so on. It is just NORMAL not being a racist. On the other hand, racism has evolved over the years, not only in Germany. It became pretty common for far right people to say that there are not Nazis, but the others are! We face a new kind of racism nowadays, cultivated by right wing parties like the AfD here in Germany, who is getting bigger and bigger. The AfD says: we have to forget the past, we should be proud of our country. And on the other hand, they use the same words in their speeches like popular members of the NSDAP did. And Putins "argument" for the war in Ukraine was: there are Nazis in the Ukraine we have to fight. That is the reason we should never forget what happened here in Germany: it can always come back again.
To point 2: I talked to several people living in Nazi Deutschland. I asked the question: did you really not notice what was happening around you? One man gave me an interesting answer, who was working in a factory near a concentration camp: "Well... on my way to work I drove past it nearly every day. It smelled kind of strange.... Neighbours were suspecting about the rumours that people were brought there to be murdered.... to be honest: I knew it. There was no way not to know it. But I was afraid. I said to myself that it is TOO cruel to be true. It can't be. I tried to get it out of my head. I just don't wanted to know that. I wanted to be wrong. I couldn't handle it at any time. So I went to my daily business, just doing my job, knowing I was right... and not be able to do anything against it....". The biggest enemy is not the enemy around you. Youself can be the biggest enemy. Those people want to forget because of shame, want to do it better today. We all know this feeling. And every old woman or man I met who was living in these times are some the greatest fighters against racism today. Maybe because they were not able to do it in the past...
there is a song by a very well-known German rock-metal band about the German past. The band is called Rammstein and the song Deutschland. Watch this video, which is very impressive, with English lyrics. It will surely impress you very much
👍🤘yes a masterpiece
Two remarks: 1. I am German, from the first generation after the war. So I met a lot of war participants, German ex-soldiers, when I was young. None of them wanted to talk about the war. But after some alcohol there were two groups. One group started bragging about what they had "achieved" geographically after demobilization after World War I from a relatively small country. Whereby one should not forget that most of the former soldiers had extremely limited horizons: a lot of them had never been out of their village or town before the war began and knew the world mainly from the Nazi-"Volksempfänger", the radio in the local inn. And then in the war, the great colourful world. Perhaps in France, suddenly they were somebody. No longer just the insignificant little Fritz from the local blacksmith shop but, at first anyway, the victors, important people. The victors with power over life and death.
The other group fell into complete silence, perhaps out of guilt or shame.
2 Germany was rebuilt and shaped after the war by the same people who had participated in the war. This was true for the workers as well as for the intellectuals. Interestingly, the post-war intellectuals at the levers of power were the same as the pre-war intellectuals at the levers of power. By the way, this was especially common in the judiciary, the administration, the secret services and, of course, the armed forces. Existing know-how counted. Who do you think wanted to wake sleeping dogs among these people who had made arrangements? The motto was: Forward to a better future. The culture of remembrance then really began, above all, with the next generation. I think this is understandable and comprehensible. In honor of my father's generation, however, I would like to point out that it was the teachers of this generation who repeatedly taught us about the war, National Socialism and the Holocaust in school, and I personally never experienced any of these teachers trying to whitewash or downplay things.
Another important factor that I haven't seen mentioned in any of these videos is a law that states that we need an academy or ministry for political education.
From elementary school on, kids learn about democracy, how different political parties work, how to read their parties program/goals (later on... around grade 9 or 10), how the government is set up or how laws are made. This is to ensure that people make informed decisions, independent decisions, and try to keep them away from falling for paroles and extremist views. Schools curriculums include mandatory politics/sociology classes by law.
A guy who things he´s a genius and seeks for attention..*cough*..*cough* Donald ^^
Thank you Joel for being open to tackling the big issues. Your willingness to learn about the world and it's history is admirable. Never quite know what you will feature next. Enjoyed this John
I had two experiences in Frankfurt when I first worked there in the nineties. One was my German manager showing me around Frankfurt and telling me that ‘Bomber Harris’ had destroyed various landmarks, then at the end he said ‘well, I suppose we did start it’ and then we went to a bar and drunk some great German beers. He said he felt like asking his grandparents, how could you let this happen? My second experience was talking to a younger colleague and he said that in his opinion the European Union was a great thing as it kept Germany in check, his opinion was that there was a side of Germany that was always far right. I loved my time in Germany and still have friends there who I see often.
That was a good video Joel and I agree with you that Germany does deal with its past. For context, my grandfather and great uncles fought in World War 1 in the British and Canadian armies, my father was World War 2 and Cold War, and I was Cold War and Bosnian War. During my military career, my German colleagues would comment that we could be proud of what our parents did during World War 2, but they looked at their parents’ generation with shame, as if the were all on drugs and nuts! That was a perspective I had never contemplated.
My grandfather was a prisoner-of-war and some of my classmates’ fathers had also been prisoners-of-war. Some of my high school teachers were World War 2 veterans from both sides! My better half’s grandfather was Luftwaffe infantry, serving in Army Group North, at the Siege of Leningrad. He and I used to have great chats about the war, and I would take him to the officers’ mess to socialize, where he was always warmly received and peppered with questions.
In my view, the duty of present-day Germans is not to perpetuate guilt, but to preserve history and example as a warning, so that no other nation is tempted to go down a similar path. Before the war, Germany had one of the most advanced cultures in the world, in the arts, architecture, philosophy, music, science, engineering, and technology, yet in only 12 years (1933-45) it destroyed itself and changed the world forever. A warning indeed. Great choice of videos and reaction Joel. John in Canada
So I'm proud to be German; and also because of our history. So first of all, Germany has a history of over a thousand years, not just 12 years. In Europe, Germany was an important source of inspiration and ideas in all areas of society, be it technology, culture, philosophy, science, etc. Germany also had a democratic tradition. One can be proud of how Germany has developed after WW2. A country worth living in was built from rubble, it has a stable democracy and it is facing up to the responsibilities arising from its history. This is precisely where it differs from other nations in the world. For example, the USA and slavery, UK, France, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands and their crimes from the colonial era, Russia and the crimes of the USSR and the conquests from the Tsarist era, Turkey and the Armenian genocide and also Japan and its crimes in WW2.
You can see how important it is to be honest with yourself, especially with Germany in Europe. Reconciliation and close cooperation between Europeans would probably never have been possible if Germany had dealt with its history the way many other nations do with their dark histories. In many parts of the world, relations between peoples are poisoned because people do not face their history. Society in the USA is still suffering from racial issues.
As a German, you can also see the difference, as other countries do not admit the crimes they have committed against Germans. There were also war crimes committed by the victorious powers, including the expulsion of millions of German civilians from their ancestral homeland. What is often missing is an admission of guilt and an apology from the Allies, Russia and other Europeans. Simply saying that Germany has started is kindergarten level. Germany knows who started WW2. But you can't justify everything with that.
honestly what always stuck to me most when learning about our history was a concentration camp visit in 9th grade. As far as I know it's actually mandatory to visit Dachau (concentration camp near munich) as a school trip in bavaria. 9th grade history lessons are entirely focused on 1933 to 1945 (approximately) anyway, but actually seeing gas chambers etc made it feel more real to me.
Germans learn how Jews died but nothing about how they lived. Jews first settled in Germany in the early Middle Ages around 700 AD but Germans don’t know that.
Definitely not mandatory to visit Dachau. I've never been there with school. We visited Mauthausen.
@@KaySan666 oh I was told it was mandatory for students in bavaria, but maybe just the trip in general not dachau specifically
Germany has learned the importance of freedom... the hard way. Germany today is one of the most open and progressive nations on Earth. Opinions diverge massively... because we're allowed, even encouraged, to have divergent opinions. Having witnessed the woke-stupidity-driven death of free speech in the USA, I feel significantly more free in Germany than I do in the States.
A question back at you: How do you think the USA is handling it's dark history? You know, genocide of Native Americans, Slavery and still very present racism, even in government (why is race always a question on American forms?)
Not that easy to answer, huh?
Look, the main difference is, Germany had to face and process it's past.
The USA and especially the UK... never really did. It is not much talked about. Hell, Schoolbooks in some Texan areas claim the slaves were guest workers...
For us in Germany the memorial institutions also have the idea to remember and to teach people how vulnerable a democratic system can be. They also remember, that a society, that values human rights, liberty and democracy should not be taken for granted from above. It is something that every german has to work for in every company or authority or institution of your state, even in your family, football-club or within your friends we have to keep this in mind.
Young germans like me are not responsible for the things that happend. But we are responsible for the future to prevent an attack of our democratic system.
As a German. in my younger years i thought "Why the fuck should I be responsible for what our ancestors did? Yes, it was the absolute horror. But what has our generation to do with it?"
Later I realized that it is not about guilt. It's about this dark history never, never ever repeats. And we still fight against populism, stupidity of the masses and assholes proclaiming "easy solutions" for big problems.
Thank you for this open and fair reaction!
Recently I heard something like: "human rights are set in stone and will never be changed. But people will try to change the definition who is human"
Hitler defined the jews to definitely NOT being human, therefore he was allowed to kill them.
Why Germany didn't start to adress their 'guilt' right after the war? Well, for once, the country was destroyed and millions of refugees needed help. Then, the very people, who often were responsible for the former government, were now in charge in rebuilding the country and communities and wanted everyone to forget about their involvement. Only a fraction was hold responsible, mostly big names or people who did unspeakable crimes. And for a lot of people there was a big part of shame involved, when the complete thruth was unveiled after the war, which was often rumours before and therefor easier to ignore. The 'Aufarbeitung' (processing) of the events really started to get more serious when the following generations started to question about what happened and why.
For the why it wasn't an immediate effort. Well after 1945 there were largely two groups in Germany, those who had been members of the Nazi party and those who weren't really supporters of the nazis but still chose to go along with the regime. And problem is that, despite the fact that this generation liked to say otherwise, given how Nazi Germany worked and the number of concentration camps etc. they all had to more or less know what was going on and either supported it or chose to ignore it. So after 1945 this generation didn't want to talk about the Nazi regime because that would mean having to face the question of what they individually could/should have done. So the Erinnerungskultur (engl. remembrance culture) only started to become a thing when the children of this generation started to ask their parents the question of where they were and what they had done during the Nazi regime (which was of course quite the "explosive" question to ask)
The long shadow of our past. We Germans and Austrians have to ask ourselves a few questions again and again in every generation: Why could these violent crimes, why could euthanasia and the Holocaust happen in Germany? How responsibly do we deal with our past and the guilt of our ancestors? Or to put it the other way around: Why couldn't Hitler, why couldn't a state policy on race and extermination be prevented? How could this criminal war of aggression and annihilation happen? As Germans, in whose name this crime was committed, we have an obligation to take responsibility for ensuring that the victims are at least not forgotten. Because dealing with Hitler's approval dictatorship and the crimes of the National Socialists is necessary to make sure where you stand.
I think this should be viewed in comparison to what other countries are doing for "Vergangenheitsbewältigung" (one of our mammoth word, meaning: tackling your own past). The German atrocities of the past are just inescapable, very public and very in the open, plus they're still a favourite Hollywood trope, so there's no chance of "let's just forget about it". (Plus germans have proven to be seriously maticulous record keepers, which is mind-boggling in the middle of exterminating millions, but has prooved really valuable when examining the past.) You shouldn't compare atrocities, but I always found it really interesting how other nations adress their (maybe not so open) dark pasts - do Russian kids learn about Stalins mass extermination of millions in schools? Do Southern US kids ask their grandparents about the Lynchings or if their forefathers owned slaves? Do British kids learn about the Bengal famine or the mass shooting of thousands of peaceful protesters and other colonial atrocities? Do Chilean kids ask their families what they did during the Pinochet regime? This is not meant provocatively or rhetorically: I really hope they get as bombarded with information as my German generation was. Understanding that this is not some far-off barbaric culture doing horrible deeds like this, but that your own people and your own kind are capable of it - that is the only way to really understand history and to grow from it.
05:40 I agree with you on that one, as famous German general Erich Ludendorff believed that peace was merely the interval between wars, and that the nation's chief duty was to provide the means with which to conduct war.
Germany recognizes the guilt and bears responsibility for ensuring that this can never happen again.
However, many other countries - such as the USA - do not sufficiently educate the population about the horrors for which they themselves are responsible. For the "free and open international order" promoted by the United States since 1945 has cost the lives of 20 to 30 million people worldwide. Experts estimate that for every war dead, there are ten more displaced. This means that the number of people wounded by U.S. wars must run into the hundreds of millions.
I really don't think that the citizens of the US are aware of this.
As far as I recollect, the initial idea behind putting the stumbling stones in the pavement, was that you have to bow your head to them
And yes with the interviews, this sums up the widespread public opinions. They are quite different, even though some of the interviewees gave quite a two sided answer, which I think represents the overall average.
About "Er ist wieder da" (Look who's back, literally more like He is back): loved the book, hated the movie! Definitely a good read vut migjt be difficult for non germans as it taps into a lot of contemporary german social culture.
And I'm happy you think we deal well with our dark past. How about you guys being next? I know you like to tell yourselves that the US was founded on "democracy, freedom and justice for all". I say in reality it was founded on two centuries of genocide and slavery. Discuss.
Greetings from Hannover, Germany - To say the least, it is quite a nice take and a good overall view about the situation and the way we deal with the topic. The differences in opinion are quite great, mostly depending on how many experiences a person itself could gather. Someone who grew up, facing antisemitism, will surely give a different answer to the question. Speaking for me, I spent 3 full years of history lessons going through nazi germany, the holocaust, the end of the weimar republic and the end of the third reich. Sadly to the neglect of more recent history, about the DDR, involvement in Afghanistan, Cold War etc. It's not like these topics weren't presented, but more like brushed over, than explained in detail.
The late start of the "Vergangenheitsbewältigung" (dealing with the past) can be put to two main arguments. On one hand, it is true, that the old people had enough of it. Coming out of a war, having seen all the bad, gruesome and brutal things, they didn't want to talk to others about it, even less think about guilt. There are stories about my grandparents (grandfather born in 1916, grandmother born in 1924) and how they behaved in front of their children. There simply was no talk about it. On the other hand, the new germany after the war needed workers. And if you would kill or imprison all people that were part of the NSDAP or a nazi per se, you would leave germany with no one to work it. So a lot of people got their actual jobs back, supervised by americans, french, soviet or english people, but nazis after all. Only due to time, these people were slowly replaced. But at the start, these persons had to be nazis, since no one else was around.
but Henning, you should not forget, as somebody here earlier has pointed out, most people in administration, big business etc. had no choice but to become member of the party to avoid discrimination for themselves and their children. (Comparable to the DDR). When one looks at foreign films about that time, every simple soldier was named nazi, which is just not true. And that never changed. When I read some comments made by compatriots that the majority of the population were followers of AH is pure propaganda. Even if some come up with personal experiences with some germans, whatever their thoughts might be, it will be subjective. Because to make a statement like that, one would have to be able to talk to 10.000s of people, which is impossible during the lifetime of just one person.
To close my comment I add just this: the regeneration of our past is impossible because of this "history is written by the winner(s)"!
So, German guy here, 26 years of age.
Far as I was told, by my grandmother and the people teaching history class both in my year and the year of my older brother, the reason it was not immediately talked about was a mixture of multiple factors. First off - we were occupied after the war. Doesn't matter if by the allied forces, or the ussr in the east of germany, the topic of Hitler and the Nazis was not per se taboo for germans, keep in mind most of those who lived back then were avid supporters of the regime, it was an influence of the occupation. FFWD a few years and the cold war felt its way through germany, being the closest line to the actual conflict at the time, and understandably we had bigger things on mind than the past, mainly being the reappearance of tanks and guns in the streets of Berlin. Along with other stuff happening, of course, such as the suppression state of east germany, the iron curtain problem and such.
Konrad Adenauer, a very popular figure in german politics back in the day, stood up to american, french, british joined occupation leaders and did the power move of sort of wrenching back control over western germany into a german's hands and under stark supervision succeeded in doing so, under the proposition of cooperation with europe (- for reference look up the coal pact, it's around that time, and marks the birth of the creation of what would eventually become the EU, as well as the basis for the birth of NATO)
From that point Naziism and the third reich were talked about, debated vigorously and people were figuring out what to do to prevent another uprise. Here, as well as later on in history, German leaders, chancellors and other political positions, would also travel to important sites of the war and the holocaust on somewhat spiritual missions, there is a very popular image of some figure, i forget who it was on the spot, kneeling in front of a holocaust memorial in poland, the site of the biggest concentration camp. FFWD a couple more years, skipping the reunion, fall of the iron curtain and all of this and the grand solution germany came up with was a policy of 'don't hide, teach, talk, remember' - this means it is not a taboo topic. Sure some older folks will be cautious speaking their mind but it's fine. It's a mandatory school subject in both politics and history to talk about how this happened, why this happened, how it was possible in the first place, and what exactly happened afterwards.
As for the military point you make in the video, i don't believe we're stocking up because history repeats itself, europe for the past years since the world war ended was all in all a fairly peaceful place. (Ignoring of course the big conflict in the east rn) Our military is as big as it needs be in case an Article 5 (NATO, anybody in the pact gets attacked we're contractually obligated to send forces to aid). And because of Article 5 NATO, we're not too worried of an attack because let's face it, yes America is great but you know what is better? ALL THE BEST MILITARIES IN THE WORLD AS A UNIT. And that's pretty scary to attack into. Our main arming efforts go into defense systems, because the only thing that can hit us realistically is a long ranged missile attack of some kind.
In conclusion, talk about the shit that happened. it'll prevent more shit from happening.
It was Willy Brandt (SPD) German chancellor.
Today, german military sank so low in power, evn The Netherlands would be able to overpower us. Our european neighbors all learned from early mistakes: "If you want to stand a chance against the Germans, you need the same material as the Germans." That is why german tanks, firearms and other military technologies are such bestsellers in Europe - besides the fact that it is FINEST QUALITY. I mean ... PUMA IFV, BOXER Multi Role Combat Vehicle, LEOPARD tanks, the new Rheinmetall KF51 PANTHER, WIESEL paratrooper/recon tank, Eurofighter TYPHOON, Heckler&Koch firearms .... list goes on and on.
I think the Stumbling Stones are very respectful. They are very common in our little town.
Great video and reaction
Jay from Germany
Joel,
With regard to the 'stumbling stones' issue in Munich (a city which I love!)... I suspect that the use of removed, defaced and broken Jewish (cemetery) headstones as pavers at a number of concentration camps may, understandably, have a lot to do with sensitivity of this issue.... especially in a beautiful city which was once the cradle of the Nazis movement.
Enjoy seeing your wide ranging interests mate! Keep it up!
(Yes! I'm an Aussie!!!)
I think it's great that Germany faces its history straight on, and don't teach an edited story that's less uncomfortable, like some countries do.. (the US comes to mind..) I find it disgusting how there are statues of prominent people fighting for the SOUTH during the civil war in the US. Can you imagine being a jew/homosexual/handicaped (or any other group the nazis hated), if parts of Germany had statues and praised prominent nazis.. And parts of your community still had the nazi flag outside their house... And in school, they glossed over the whole "incident", as if it never happened.. Even though Germans today had no part in it, it's good that they are told the truth. I do feel like they could celebrate their national day, and show some national pride at this point, but the humility they've shown, and how serious it's been taken is great! I feel for black and indigenous people in the US, especially blacks in the south, where statues and flags, representing those who fought to keep black people inslaved, can still be seen all over the place! Swiping the ugly truth under the rug is not the right approach, essentially when it still effects a large portion of the population!
3:48 You know immediately where that woman stands politically. I'd eat my hat if she didn't vote AfD in the last elections.
People like her are reason enough to continue to make the NS-regime a topic and continuously and tirelessly educate people on it because those who forget or fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it and considering the devastation, the utter slaughter of the innocent and industrial genocide in ours that's a risk we simply cannot afford to take...
Even in Italy there are these plaques in memory of those deported to Nazi concentration camps. Unfortunately, these miniature monuments are sometimes vandalized by fascist thugs
4:24 Let me put it this way: Those that are the most annoyed with it and are calling to "finally shelve it" the loudest are usually also the people you play with the thought of repeating it all but this time "make it a success".
The thing is that as long as they teach us how the Nazis managed to play the people to get in power those elements will have a really hard time using those same tricks to do it again but once we stop educating people in history and recognizing those patterns and their tricks, those tricks will work just as well again as they did in 1933.
Even if you learned not to touch a hot plate, doesn't mean your children won't touch it...
German from Hamburg here. While I can accept the Central Jewish Council's differing opinion and decision to remove the stones from the ground in Munich so nobody can step on them, and have them mounted as plaques on walls, I still believe that the original concept was better.
People usually watch where they are going. When something shiny pops into our field of vision, something out of the ordinary, removed from the uniform grey of cobblestone pavement, then you take care NOT to step on it. So even if you don't factually stumble over the stumbling stones, you might slow or even halt your strides. By mounting them on the ground, and have the names, dates of birth and death engraved, it makes people reflect on it. It causes the pedestrian to bow their head automatically, which also induces a pose of solemn respect. While plaques mounted at adult head height often tend to be overlooked.
Believing that haters of such memorials would refrain from damaging either the stones or the plaques is weirdly naive.
When it comes to talking about the war and the atrocities you'll have no problem in Germany at all. The only thing modern Germans ask is to be respectful to the victims' memories. With that caveat out of the way, ask whatever you want to know. Germans won't hold back, and definitely won't hold it against you.
If I compare the way German children are taught about WW2 and say Australians and the Stolen Generation, Aussie kids don’t come even close to really having to coming to terms with the atrocities that were committed. I think the same could probably be said of British colonialism and probably also if slavery in the Americas. People really aren’t prepared to reflect on the hard reality that the countries and societies we live in are founded in murder, theft and domination.
@@Michael_from_EU_Germany we only know how many people were murdered because the Nazis made records. We have no idea how many cultures were completely exterminated during during the entire period of global European colonialism.
I think the man`s statement is very good that our current generation is not to blame for the war , but it`s important to talk about it so that crimes like this never happen again. Many parents of the direct post-war generation could not to talk to their children about the war, because they were so traumatized themselves.
Many soldiers had experienced so many terrible crimes that they had seen mass murders or had lost comrades, they were broken men when they came back. Some women had also been raped and couldn`t talk about it. That`s why the topic was hushed up in many families in Germany , because the children knew what their parents went trough in the war. Our family spoke openly about it my paternal grandfather died in Stalingrad /Russia when he was only 38 years old. My other grandfather fought in Hungary but returned home unharmed at the end of the war. He had also seen many terrible things that he had told us, it was also very difficult for him to see other people dying in front of the eyes. My grandfather had also said that the SS units were pure killer commandos without heart and conscience. He had seen personally how the SS- man burning houses in Hungary.They were so evil. He himself was a normal soldier in the Wehrmacht.
Hello Joel. I stayed with the family of a former German soldier in Frankfürt. He had served in North Africa and was a POW held by the US. He asked about my family in the war. I told him my uncle was a POW from North Africa, captured behind the lines by Italians , but later being taken by the Germans to mine coal in Silesia. He was delighted that he met someone who knew about where he served and said he was so glad the US took him as not all POW from Germany were well treated.
I thought it best to omit that the Italians had no food for either guards or POW and my uncle escaped only to have his teeth knocked out on recapture by rifle butt. I also missed out how he got away from Silesia to Odessa and I was told he was made a military policeman and sent to "look after" nazis after he got in a fight with Italian POWs celebrating VE day, back in his home town. You know, don't mention the war.
DW have a duty as a national broadcaster to be unbiased. There is a definite anti war sentiment, as you might expect, in Germany. I only made friends there, but I am typically British when it comes to not backing down, so my attitudes are not always like those of some of the very generous Germans in the video.
We have changed, we are not those of the 1930's, we have jobs, inflation is reasonable and there is no real threat to our country. We are knitted into the EU are we want to stay here, even if there is a war raging not too far away. We have learned our lesson well, but not all of us, rather sadly.
ty for the vid man. was having a real bad panic attack. great vid as always
in my opinion, we have kind of the wrong priorities with the rememberance culture sometimes. because there is so much focus on guilt, when what should be examined in a lot of detail is the mechanism behind populism and authoritarianism. people are falling for shit like the afd again because they dont understand that scapegoating and just straight up lying is how they get you, and guilt isnt the best motivator to stay vigilant once the generations who are actually responsible for what happened die out. and then there is the fact that while the holocaust has a lot of attention, other awful things that need to be recognized dont. most people dont even know that germany had colonies, or that we committed massacres there. or that we too have structural racism, and not just dumbass rightwingers.
like im not saying put less attention to the holocaust, but give as much attention to the other stuff we did too, so we can actually start to solve it.
A great video and a thoughtful, well reasoned reaction, as always, Joel.
I am German and European. Personally, I believe that the EU was the best invention to bring the people of Europe together in peace. Despite all its faults. Unfortunately, people in the UK have not understood that the EU is more than just an economic structure that you leave when you don't like it. It is much more than that.
Ja, es ist viel mehr als ein Wirtschaftsraum. Die EU ist unser Tod, nicht der Wirtschaftsraum.
Ww2 should be a cautionary tale against identity politics regardless of the reasons and which side is doing it.
i have a really big problem with the argument that stumbling stones cant be set in the ground... first of all,.. the house owner would need to give consent to put it on his wall... which you wouldnt get in many places. the second problem i have is that 98% of all people were happy with it being in the ground, and a few had to argue about it,.. so most of the time,.. instead of being commemorated with the stumbling stones,.. those stones are never put up, because you arent allowed to put them in the ground in some places,.. you arent getting the permission to put them on the wall,.. so they are just thrown out.
We have huge departments of defenses, because the US makes us have them. They spend more money on military than the next 25 countries combined and 24 of them are allies. And then they are trying to guilt us into spending more.
While the US social security is basically non existant. US homelessness is rampant, healthcare is the leading cause of bankruptcy, you have more people incarcarated than any other country in the world.....etc.
Military spending is not that neccessary as the US wants to think it is. Granted it is a bad year to say that because of Putin. But the Ukraine was spending 3bn USD on average before 2020, now it's 5bn and Russia is still struggling. Russia spent ~65bn.
Military spending is not the end all be all, Ukrainians mobilized themselves when they got attacked. You do not waste all that money on a hypothetical.
I'm in a similar situation: my nation China had a conflict with Japan till the end of WW2. The conflict started long before the Second World War began. The Japanese committed terrible war crimes - even Hitler was appalled - such as the Nanjing massacre and human experimentation at Unit 731.
Yes. My grandparents survived the war, but they lost some blood relatives. Unfortunately, my grandfather hated the Japanese until his last day.
I met a few Japanese students when I was at university and they are like every else: you, me and others. I bared no grudge against Japanese individuals. Those I met are friendly people.
Unlike the people of Germany, the Japanese do not know much about their nation's recent past because they weren't taught.
It's the same in Italy and also partly in Russia. Most countries like to forget what they did in the past or they don't speak about it.
It is very, very difficult as a foreigner to recognize that a country has shifted to the right because you don't know the language.
A good example of this is Ukraine. After Maidan 2014, Ukraine made a shift to the right. After that, school books were rewritten, the children learned at school that, for example, Russians are not people but animals. Children's songs were written Ukrainian for men who fought for the German SS in the 40's and these men were then revered as heroes in Ukraine. You don't get it abroad because you don't speak the language, not to mention that our media doesn't report about it either. Personally, a donation box has been held under my nose twice. where one should donate for the Ukraine. I rejected both times with the reason that I don't support Nazis! Which then always ended in fundamental discussions about what was actually going on in the Ukraine.
This is new to me. You gave me something to think about and doing recherche. Thank You, Greeting from Hamburg Germany
Really good and fascinating short vid,Joel,a rare upvote from me : a bit closer to home for you,also note the Tennessee district banning of Art Spiegelman's 'Maus'
In the village 5k where I grew up, there is a concentration camp cemetery of a subcamp of Dachau. In the early 80s, the cemetery was desecrated by swastika graffiti, our school classes removed this disgrace. A good day.
I think this is a secondary benefit these memorials have - aside from keeping the memory of the victims alive.
In a way, they function like those film badge dosimeters that workers in nuclear power plants are wearing. Those dosimeters show if the person wearing them has been exposed to radiation. Memorials can perform a similar function for society, except they're indicators for the presence of hatred.
@@BrokenCurtain I don't think I've considered that aspect, thanks
What a great topic and great video to analyse. It was also good to hear your views as a new generation coming through. You're the future. And you're right. Power greed is dangerous. Be careful of extreme right in the USA it can happen all over again.
Greetings from Australia
I’m from germany and one time in school we polished the “stolperstein” in the area around our school.
You're so right about humans NOT coming to their senses. I think we may be a little better, but as a human society... the same thing is still going on in places like North Korea (they've got no idea) with a leadership like that. There are many countries with rulers trying to retain outdated ancient laws that have no purpose in todays society.
the guy in the interview said in europe though, don't think he talked about the world
@@robertscherer620 5:23 (listen again) an example of what he's saying
Look at Putin now...
Personally Speaking I dont think hunger power and greed are all that humans have to offer the world, I think these things get balanced out with kindness and compassion and friendship. The bigger problem is people being brought up in a cycle of revenge, And punishment for things which happened in history. Part of the reason for building the common market then the EU was to join countries together in such a way war would be self destructive and to cultivate friendships.
Well, if your country is bombed to the grounds and occupied by foreign powers, you actually do have quite practical reasons that distract you from dealing with this chapter and reflect it, put effort in prevention work and education. Where do you educate without schools anyway? Being ashamed when more horror stories of what really happened came to light didn't help either.
And there's always the question of 'How could you not know!? It's impossible!', but what many people have known was that they might be arrested or beaten, if they don't chear the Führer loud enough, or god prevent, didn't chear and applaud at all. What they did know where disturbing things happening in their own neighbourhoods*, to create fear. And what they did know was all the propaganda bombarding them. Many could have guessed what was happening, but could they even imagine the full scale of this horror? I doubt it.
* a quite disturbing episode I learned from my grandmother was the cruelty not towards jews but handicapped people, children mostly (and I wish there'd be a spoiler or nsfw feature):
At one day the Nazis gathered all people of the village on the village square. They had captured all handicapped people of the area and put them there, telling the folks that their handicap was a sign of degeneration, because the Aryan blood was thinned. Than they started to kill those people, and as most where children, they did not waste ammunition on them, which would be horribly enough but at least a fast and less cruel death - no, they took them by their feet and smashed them against the wall untill they stopped screaming and moving. In front of their parents, their neighbours, in front of everyone. In front of other children.
And this is a story we got told when we were still children ourselves.
Another thing I still remember, when a friend of my grandma was around and they talked about the past, which they seldomly did, was regarding young men of the village, who did not want to fight in this war and tried to hide, how families tried to hide them, in attics, in cellars, including the families of my Grandma and her friend. And how the Nazis found them anyway. They stopped talking there and usually stared in the distance. As a child I always thought they were sent to war then (which I found horrible enough, even if I might had not understand what war really means). But as an adult and after learning more about this era I became aware that they most likely simply got executed right away. Probably in front of the families hiding them, as part of the punishment against them. And that the reason that both women then in their 70's stopped talking at that point maybe wasn't just that the men died. But that they died while they had to watch.
Similarly to Russia today, although the scale is not this huge (yet), it's easy to blame the citizens for not preventing what happened. For not standing against the dictatorship. But the mix of brainwashing propaganda (and look around, there's so much disinformation and propaganda on this planet!), repression of other opinions or even opposition, and terror against the own people if they fight back, is a crude one that can silence or break most everyone. That doesn't mean that there is no guilt. But honestly I'm not sure if I would be brave enough to openly fight against a new dictator, facing torture and death of me and my loved ones.
And as a last word:
You might be shocked that it took over one decade until Germany started this. But I am rather shocked that very most countries, including the US, hardly ever talk and teach about their dark history. But instead glorify the rest of it or even deny that anything bad had happened.
@MoreJps looks like someone is trying to abuse your name with a copied account.
fun fact: because Muhammad Ali was Muslim he requested his walk of fame star to be on a wall so people wouldn't step on the Prophet Muhammad's name
it would be interesting to see a 'how Japan deals with their dark past' video or even one about the US
During my apprenticeship we had to go to Buchenwald because years before us a guy had said awful things so the company said that it should be shown to everyone what happened 80 years ago.
It was really awkward (for the lack of a better word) most of the time. Many buildings and stuff were gone but there was enough to look at still. Still gives me goosebumps.
I'm a German student and our whole 9th grade went to a concentration camp. I think many (when not all) students go there during their school time or their whole life. We also read a book "The Wave" (a book about a class who thinks that there will never be something like the Nazis again and it shows that these things can happen easily). I knew about the Nazis, WW2 I think before like I was 12 maybe even when I was 10. As she said it is often on TV so kids learn about it too. (I can't remember if we learned a bit in elementary school (or "Grundschule")) A thing too is that in history we will learn about Nazis up from 9th grade I think every year, we get really deep into it as far as I know.
For me, I think we are not guilty but we have to assure that something like this never happens again.
im from germany and i can asure you the reactions are pretty on point there are alot of different feelings about this topic
The stumbling stones were meant to stumble across the history of real people in real houses in real neighborhoods, forcing you to realize that history is not just a story of the past but has happened in reality and everywhere - Of course everybody knew that neighbors were deported… Maybe they thought or hoped they were brought somewhere else and not killed, but even if so it was unjust and should have been enough to realize something’s going the wrong way.
On the other hand looking at the situation in Russia, Ukraine, Hungary and lots of other countries in the world minorities like homosexuals are being suppressed, imprisoned or even killed for being just what they are or believe… And people go the easy way and take the propaganda lies to be true.
That’s what made Brexit and Trump possible - People voting against their own interest.
Your conclusion in your last sentence express what I too feel and fear.,
I am not proud being German but I am very glad.
I grew up with lots of education about WW2 and all our ancestors did, as soon as I was old enough to understand what it means. But even as a child I was told that the swastika is a forbidden symbol that absolutely cannot be painted or drawn anywhere.
I also remember that we were singing the national anthem in primary school. Not because we had to, but secretly, for fun. We knew that there was a forbidden verse from Nazi times and it made the whole anthem seem almost like something criminal. We were genuinely worried about getting arrested back then, and we didn't even sind the verse in question.
I personally don't have a lot of national pride or anything. But it is not just about our history, but also about globalization and other issues, as well as some things within our country that I find a bit questionable.
There is a growing divide between rich and poor, as there is everywhere probably, and I am studying now, but my family is from the poor side, so I have seen a huge range of different living realities, especially of younger people whose only differences lie in the success of their parents.
Yeah... Not a big fan of many things. But I really like your videos.
And I am still thankful to be born here, it is a very nice place with a high standard of living, and my life as it is now would not have been possible in many other places.
I also do hope that history won't repeat itself, even if it is basically still going on, just not in front of our doorstep anymore.
I grew up with the same, but I will never understand that showing a religious symbol is forbidden.
In Hinduismus, Buddhismus and Jainismus the swastika is a symbol of luck. In Hinduism the swastika symbol is commonly used before entrances or on doorways of homes or temples, to mark the starting page of financial statements, and mandalas constructed for rituals such as weddings or welcoming a newborn. Hindu altar often have Swastika symbols. In Buddhism, the swastika is considered to symbolise the auspicious footprints of the Buddha. The left-facing swastika is often imprinted on the chest, feet or palms of Buddha images. It is an aniconic symbol for the Buddha in many parts of Asia and homologous with the dharma wheel. The shape symbolises eternal cycling, a theme found in the samsara doctrine of Buddhism. In Jainism, all Jain temples and holy books must contain the swastika and ceremonies typically begin and end with creating a swastika mark several times with rice around the altar. Jains use rice to make a swastika in front of statues and then put an offering on it, usually a ripe or dried fruit, a sweet, or a coin or currency note. The four arms of the swastika symbolise the four places where a soul could be reborn, heaven, hell, human or animal before they reach the end of the circle of birth. And in Asia the swastika is a symbol for the 'source of good fortune'
That the Nazi misused that sign doesn't give us Germans the right to forbid it's use and I will never understand it. No one forbids to show a cross because Hitler was born a Christian. I understand that they forbade the symbols of the SS or the flag of Hitlers party, etc, but not that they forbade a symbol used worldwide in religious ceremonies. They clearly overshoot the mark.
I'm a (german) history teacher and have to say this is one of the best analysis of german rememberance culture! Very insightful indeed.
My own grandparents, did not speak about Hitler and the Nazis. Grandpa was a prisoner of war, but was lucky to survive it. Granny had to find food to raise my dad. She walked for miles to beg for a helping hand. They suffered a lot. Grandpa only told once, it was the military or death. BUT after this long time, there are no witnesses anymore and a lot of people want to have back the good old days of traitors to mankind, liars, spying out their neighbors. This idiots, like you said do not learn a lesson.
You, be safe and sound. Elmar from Germany.
"Grandpa only told once, it was the military or death"
Well depends what Grandpa meant with that.
Sure he had to serve and fight other soldiers.
But that's exactly where his service ended, even back then.
After the war you saw A LOT of former soldiers who claimed that they had to follow illegal and immoral orders on the threat of death.
All of that was a lie.
There is not a single case known where a soldier was somehow thrown into prison or even shot for not murdering civilians when ordered.
In fact soldiers had to come forward to be considered in these units and if their unit was ordered from the officers to take part in these actions they could just opt out.
@@TyonKree That my very well be so. But, I loved my Grandpa, he had suffered as a Russian prisoner, that might not be enough in YOUR eyes, but, he was a humble man, who was respected, working at the production belt, by some of the higher ups, as well as from the "lowest". Because of him, I learned to show respect to EVERYONE until they were disrespectfull to me. God bless you.
Elmar from Germany.
@@TyonKree you have to remember that a lot of "normal" people were afraid of their lifes. I know from one of my grandpas (my grandma told me, cause I was too young, when he died), that he was some kind of Engineer on a ship, and he had nearly finished an Engineer training, when the war was over. So I'm not sure if he had ever a man to man combat. He looked like the German Stereotype that was hyped. Tall and blond. My grandma did not. She was smaller and looked more like a Sinti or Roma, with pitch black hair and even with fainter skin her features didn't really look "German" (sorry, I'm not sure if that is the politically correct word right now, i don't want to offend if not, I'm just totally confused by now, what the right word would be for those groups 😅). So yeah, she had to have her passport on her all the time and even her family tree to prove, that she was german and not get arrested. It was way better, when she was dating and going out of the house with him. Anywhen else, she litterally feared for her life and that of her family and of course my grandpa was afraid, mostly of what would happen to her, if he would not be there. And my grandpa was arrested, for something simple like surfing during the war and had to spend time in jail. And I know he was defininitely not someone who liked what the Nazis did. But both my grandmas mentioned, that you even were afraid to say something, cause you could never be sure who would rat you out if you even talked against the nazis. So I don't know how it would have been, if my granddad (both of them were soldiers in the war, my other grandma even lost her first husband in the war. Her second, my granddad from that side died before I was born, but I was told, he did not want to talk about his time in battle and seemed to be traumatized about that topic) would not have gone to the military. I can't even imagine how that was, living through that time, but according from the few things I was told from the people who actually lived through it, everyone had to think about what he/she would do and what could happen afterwars to himself/herself and their loved ones.
I´m German, 52 years old. And I´m quire sure, nearly no nation reflects its dark chapters as done here. And you see story repeating when looking to russia today. It´s really sad, that we can not really unite in Europe for peace, freedom and progress but still have to much of this old rivalism in the air.
I’m an Aussie but lost 133 family members in the Holocaust - mostly in auschwitz and Stutthof concentration camps.
Germany however has done a lot to not hide from its history and to educate not only itself but the wider world to avoid making such mistakes again.
Personally, I love Germany - been many times and have always enjoyed my time there. I will say that in European terms one is much less likely to encounter antisemitism there now than in some other countries.
Also, the fact that the sort of truth and reconciliation process didn’t begin immediately after the war is understandable - there was a lot going on. The country was heavily bombed, borders were changing, the Cold War was becoming apparent and the partitioning of east and west Germany. Coupled with, I’m sure, the shame and disbelief that many ordinary Germans must have felt when the edifice of nazism came tumbling down and the curtains were finally opened on the horrors that had been committed for all the world to see.
Thx Greetings from Germany 🍻
Probably the most decisive and deeply moving event of my life was when my father took my brother and I to a concentration camp memorial and I saw the pictures of the atrocities.
The people who didn't look like people anymore because they were emaciated to the bone. The numbers about the number of dead, of murdered. I was shocked (I'm born in 1966)
Even if I am not personally to blame, I feel a great responsibility, which I intend to share with everyone in this world, that something like this must never, ever happen again.
These days it is becoming more difficult to remember the atrocities, because almost all of the eyewitnesses have died. The question is how can we convey to the younger generation a feeling for the suffering of the people, the victims.
I got to know a few more Nazi victims, whom I have the greatest respect for, because they went to the schools to tell the children and young people about their suffering, which they had to endure anew every time they reported it.
Given you have looked at this it probably follows looking at Germany being split and the reunification.
Hello, a hungarian is here, we also have a couple of stumbling stones in my home town (Sopron, and other cities) to remember of the victims of WWII.
Im AUS. I had 1 great great grandad fight in the boer war and WW1. 3 others in WW1, one died. Then 2 great grandads in WW2, then 1 grandad in WW2. so thats 7 total who fought in wars. (Possibly 8 but idk of the 8th is a realitive)
Ive never blaimed a country for their deaths, its stupid if u do. Germany has a dark history yes and all countrys do, but here in Australia Aboriginal peoples werent aloud to vote just over 50 years ago, and before that colonisers kidnapped their children (the stolen generation) and tried to turn them "white." This went on alot longer than WW2, No country has a clean slate for a past.
I call the "Stolpersteine" path as what it is, the "German Walks of Shame". My girlfriend, a girl from rural Devon, southwest England, calls them "Remembering Stones", even though she understands the subtleties behind the name "Stumbling Stones" very well in the German context. Won't say it's a pun, but something similar in a deeper sense.
Have humans learnt their lesson from the world wars? You only need to look at the Russia/Ukraine war to get your answer.
As a 12yo child I was on holiday with my parents and we met a German child around my age which I befriended but my first question to him was what he thought about Hitler. I was being very insensitive now looking back, he was very uncomfortable, but I was just being curious. It certainly goes with what the presenter said, don't mention the war. I'm with you JP on the plaques on the ground, I think they serve a good purpose and I don't think it's disrespectful at all.
Well that a 12 year old with the question is overwhelmed, is clear!
These different opinions exist, yes, but it is only the bandwidth that is shown, not the majority/minority distribution/how many people are in this or that boat. That's a different question. Don't fall into the false balance trap ;-)
wow, this is so interesting. this is my 3rd video I've watched from you....subscribed.
In my personal opinion (cause my partens and grandparents were dedicaded to imprint all taboo's in you so u never overstep) not only WW II was a big Problem, but the same responsability goes for slavery and so on. I had a very difficult Childhood cause was not able to handle all the Sadness, Pain usw. the People had to endur and feel all the Time, so i never visited a KZ cause only the Thought about i hit me so Hard i could not breath or Think propaly. So Today, more or less, im skipping these Topics cause i can't handle it and get very emotinonal when those topic's come up.
„Why would we continue to invest in our Defense and increase spending if it wasnt for our human nature.“ Well… I think this is a very US-American perspective. The budget of the US is so overblown and the reason is profit, not the need for an almighty military
I would disagree there. The US is the defacto sovereign of the western world, and if you want to be a sovereign, you have two options. Either you dominate your subjects with fear, or you offer then services and benefits for their loyalty. The US is mostly doing the second, but one major service they provide is security. Why does europe payed so little for its military? Because we could rely on the US. Could we defend ourselfs if we wanted? Easily, if we wanted we could even have a similar sized military. We just needed to scrap out social security systems to pay for that.
Its not for profit per se, its because the US wants to stay world leader and sovereign.
Statistically, we have fewer and fewer wars in the world. So we are definitely evolving for the better. Of course, it could go faster and there are setbacks from time to time, but the trend is clear.
There you have a great example that words in German can have way different meanings. As kids we had a game called 'Teekesselchen"where we found a word with 2different meenings.