Gotta love the person who said +5 Speed is barely useful or dubiously useful in Engage. It's just the most important stat, both for survivability and doubling. And Citrinne's speed is atroicious, known to be easily doubled. Not to mention, the more SPD you have, you will begin doubling even fairly quick enemies. At least I got some laughs here. Happy New Year and all the best for your channel next year!
Some people just don't get FE man, I love using Citrinne but she is worse than Anna on average due to her speed issues. If she had average speed, I see an argument for Ice's naysayers, however I do agree with them that Anna is annoying to train even if it isn't that hard.
I mean it depends. Generally engage units either have all the speed they realistically need and want might or have all the might they realistically need and want speed. Amber wants speed+5 or to be reclassed. Kagetsu wants to be reclassed to wyvern or get lunar brace. Depending on the unit speed+5 genuinely isn’t valuable or is arguably single best skill. Speed more then any other stat is threshold based. Once you double you get diminishing returns on more speed but getting to those thresholds is amazing. And generally a lot of the more commonly used ones are the ones that want slight might fixing because the classes that might fix like wyvern and warrior are preferable to classes that speed fix like griffon wolf knight bow knight or thief. Notably there is more serious speed fix classes then strength fix classes ( a whole 2 barring diamant’s personal) so for the guys with strength but not speed they have more flexibility. Cav and flying bonded shield options as opposed to just flying access to covert which has good emblem bonuses like with byleth ect ect. You need to be really slow for you to just not be better off changing to a speed class to speed fix.
"I don't like Anna so I never put in the effort to use her because she is bad." Proceeds to have an opinion on a unit they allegedly never use. Brilliant.
Honestly just use them both? Good magic units are at a premium in this game. The only real flaw with Anna is a tiny amount of babying in her first 1-3 chapters (depending on how much time you want to spend per chapter) and the limited promotion/reclass items available early game. Honestly, this is the best argument against Anna and none of them brought it up -- She requires a Second Seal in addition to a Master Seal, as well as the proper weapon masteries that you almost certainly will have to spend bond fragments on. Having said that, it ends up worth it IMO if you're playing even slightly casually, people pretend she's like Est and she isn't, she's more like Ross, she joins early enough that a small amount of favoritism can allow her to snowball insanely.
ngl I never noticed how wack Citrinne is as a unit til I tried to find a reason to use her over Gregory or Anna. Alcryst's whole group is pretty much "use them if you like them"
I’ve been able to get really strong performances out of lapis she’s just outclassed by other units which isn’t necessarily her fault. There’s just some really other strong units
@@MrWingzeroo I honestly think she's the most useful of her group but she's sandwiched in between Chloé and Kagetsu who are both insanely valuable units. I use her on every playthrough and there's value to using any one of Alcryst's trio but there's always a better alt
It is a bit crazy to me how the same people who say: “Citrinne is fast enough when given skills, emblems, food/tonics, and is always in range of her dedicated Byleth speed rally bot, so you’re argument is invalid” are also the same ones who outcried when I said “you know, Alcryst actually keeps pace with an equal IL Etie’s strength for longer than people give credit because of his +3 personal which is super easy to trigger every turn” with “Omg, why bother triggering his personal skill it’s soooo much work; Alcryst sucks, Etie based” Like, the inconsistencies of when they decide to apply their logic and when they don’t is astounding.
@@PetraMacnearythe argument was specifically them saying Sniper Etie is better than Tireur Alcryst. In that situation, she only has 15 STR, 10 SPD, and 5(?) Wt when promoted, which is a very different stat spread from her Warrior set. Also, neither are prime candidates for the earliest master seals even if you plan on putting her in Warrior, meaning you’re looking at Archer vs Lord until ~level 13-15 unpromoted during which Alcryst still has advantages on top of not requiring the extra early game exp (personally I find training her a bit annoying in those very early chapters because I’d rather use her to chip and set up kills for someone like Chloe or Alear instead). And I guess it depends on how you play. Even when I’m being very player phase focussed, I still usually send a unit ahead to trigger movement of the next enemy group every turn so I’m not wasting a lot of time, and keeping Alcryst within 2 slots has never really been an issue (though I also don’t heavily use warp strats, and those would definitely affect this)
The only time my citrenne ever was good was with dire thunder. I’ve never had her be useful immediately as she only pokes in her joining chapter. She’s just way too slow to make use of without dire thunder, where Anna with noa and mica can actually do things. Who else are you giving mica to in those early chapters? People act like micaiah is some super contested resource when all your combat units are always over level. Unless you want to stick with all the early game units.
Give Citrinne Thoron+1, any engrave that gives hit rate (you can wait on the engrave), with canter and momentum, and 4 staves; ring choice does not really matter much either, prob just anything with magic on it or Corrin later. She will one shot with thoron and momentum for like the first half of the game while providing stave utility with 4 staves options at all times.
Dude it’s so easy to fix speed in engage. Yes Anna doesn’t need that speed fixing and thus can fit stuff like canter hold out ect but basically anyone can double even Louis and I’m not even talking about halberdier ( though halberdier is a way more efficient way for Louis to go about it) and the few enemies impractical to double you can shoot for one shots on with thoron
@@MasterStacona so what you’re saying is that you need to invest a whole bunch of shit into maxxing the damage of a super heavy tome instead of just OHKO doubling with any other unit. I love this particular discussion because no one is ever saying citrenne is unusable or bad. She has a specific niche, and needs resources to really fit into that niche. The ironic part is that people hold other units to an unrealistic standard in comparison. Anna can do the one shot build too, and so can ivy, and so can pandreo. The process you described doesn’t work because citrenne contributes anything unique to the equation, it works because it’s a viable build.
One of the funniest Anna builds I ever did was high priest Anna. The only skills she had were +10HP/ +10LCK and Gentility+. I swapped between byleth and corrin rings. She had stupidly high HP and could survive a lot of dumb shit (fixed mode maddening), while being able to double nearly everything with +3 forged elfire with Sigurd engrave. She wasn’t even the bonded target and yet I could use her to solo the map due to her ability to self heal with her own staves. Citrenne just can’t do stuff like that with the exact same levels of investment. PS: I never used starsphere either. Tiki level with bond frags only. I wanted to see how far I could meme her luck up for the passive.
I’ve had good success with her as a Thoron poker/cannon and as a thoron debuffer. She’s not in contest with pandreo and Anna because she doesn’t fulfill the same role. If you’re using her as a mage knight to double and blah blah blah I think you’re going about it the wrong way
@@PetraMacnearychip doesn’t get you hardly any exp and Etie can’t enemy phase so how many turns are you playing per map to feed Etie kills? I think the TH-camr with 1000+ hrs on the game knows a little bit about good/bad units.
Honestly, the problem is the fan base perspective. Early on, fire emblem guides over valued trainee units like Nino (possibly the most notorious example, and it was brought up this video). These units showed up way too late and tended to require an incredible amount of extra work to get to somewhat usable points in power while these games handed you real powerhouses regularly, the big numbers they hit at the end was overblown since they likely stayed behind other units even if favored, and the enemies had low stats anyways. Now, thanks to the influence of members of the fan base like Mekkah (no disrespect at all by the way, he's great, only problem I'm pointing out is others vaguely trying to repeat the ideas without truly understanding them), it's been pushing in the opposite direction for a while where any units that even vaguely looks like a trainee unit must automatically be trash that needs an incredible amount of favoritism to work. I'd agree most trainees in the series are very bad, but when we run into a situation where we get a game (engage) where the units we get early on are mostly bad, units that start and are good later in the game take a while to get to, and we get incredible resources early on, people panic and don't know what to do. Anna looks vaguely like trainee (debatable just how much she is one, since she isnt even that far behind what other units look like at that point, but her and Jean are some of the closest examples we got), so for many now active in the fan base on TH-cam and reddit, that equals bad unit that requires favoritism instantly in theit minds. That just 1-2 chapters (I'd go with 2, if I understand correctly, you're doubling the turns you take on the first Brodia chapter to do 1. That's not out there unreasonable, but we start stretching it there and open way for weirder choices of time and resources. Normal pace for 2 chapters, however, is fine in my mind) of normal gameplay, not sandbagging, with an early game resource is unacceptable, it must be way too much investment, literally like setting up and feeding Nino every single kill multiple chapters in a row. Ways to invest this resource don't even need to be brought up, that the only other units at this point as good candidates for Micaih being Alear and Chloé, both busy carrying emblems like Marth and Sigurd in order to actually carry and win at a reasonable pace, doesn't even need to come up. That Anna is arguably a better Micaih user than our other units even if we exclude level up considerations because she has added backup utility in base class doesn't come up. All that matters is at base level, if you RNG abuse to get an Olwen ring (which is apparently a reasonable idea, unlike just play the game normally for 2 chapters, since it's an item you can get early on if you mess around and reset multiple times to try and get it), and give Citrinnr stat boosters, then Citrinne kinda can just take out enemies without level ups, so she must be pwnage incarnate, like Pent!
Honestly I think you hit the nail on the head. There is a kind of Trainee hysteria induced by influencers opinions despite Engage being nothing like those games so people are living in GBA era slinging up these hot takes of Pent vs Nino when in reality even the best engage units want resources like emblems, forges, tonics, etc.
The first time I played maddening, I had beaten the game twice on hard so ran a bunch of meme builds. The difficulty spike in CH21 caught me by surprise, suddenly I was getting stared down by 5 generals and 2 snipers who my whole team struggled to deal with and could kill any of my units if left unchecked. Since then I've always mentally split the game into a preparation stage (Chapter 1 through 20) and endgame. In short, conversation about Citrinne (or any unit really) putting in "more work" in the early game is pointless. If you want good tools to actually beat maddening there are certain benchmarks that make a difference long term. The same tools that can salvage a unit you like late game can be used to invest in a better unit in early game. In short, I'm calling the Amber lance.
Exactly, the game becomes very hard C21 onward so units who cannot meet 1 rounding thresholds without significant help make your run harder. Early chapters outside of LTC play are easy.
I mean I actually think Citrinne is quite good. Strict stats dont really showcase exactly what she does, or what makes her good. She doesnt need speed when shes one-shotting or setting up one-shots for other units that need a kill to level (or cant kill on their own). But at the same time, it is really bizarre how far these people are willing to go to deny how good Anna is, or how easy it is to use her. Its like, "do you play fire emblem?" "Do you level units?" Lol Like, using Anna is just like using any other unit, and is just like leveling literally every other unit in any other fire emblem game. -- its HOW you play the game. You get units, choose which ones you want to use, and then level them through gameplay. Its literally no different. People just want to deny and hate on Anna for no reason.
I remember seeing a video saying that Anna isn't a good unit and using Citrinne as a comparison. From what I can recall, the video showed how Anna couldn't double a chapter 21 general. There's also something about how Anna may struggle to kill armors even if she could while a doubling Citrinne can kill. Here's the link if you're by any chance curious: th-cam.com/video/cvXxcXw36Hg/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
Surprised Triabolical made this, I thought he was smart but I guess not. He is framing this to make Citrinne look good and ignoring clear advantages Anna brings to the table to make her look bad. I will make a video response to this, I can imagine dumb videos like this are why people genuinely think Anna is bad.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming I think this would be a cool video series (or one long video reaction) if you do decide to do this. There are many Engage tier lists on TH-cam that I felt were disingenuous. Mostly because there is an argument to be made that if you prep before hand, you can make any character good if you want to. That's why I think tier lists for Engage on TH-cam is a complete rabbit hole. Any other FE game before this felt like a completely different story, but because you can build any character in this game any way you want, it kind of makes tier lists for this game in particular kind of mute. I don't know if you agree with me, but that's just my dumb gamer opinion on the matter that plays fire emblem games for fun.
I think the problem is its a single player game. I noticed the same issue when discussing games like Bauldersgate 3 also. There are some subclasses that are HORRIBLE because you have a party of 4, but people like to play how they play so they ignore actual facts. The other aspect is a lot of redditors probably don't play in maddening so they can run whatever. I mostly played in hard and everything is strong in that mode.
Anna going warrior radiant bow still isnt horrible and cittrines go to build being an exploit on the gacha game is notable. Reguardless though if youre looking up tier list to see good units that kinda already invalidates the going in with no knowledge thing.
I'm going to have to give this Anna thing a shot. But this and my own playthrough got me thinking that Cetrinne is supposed to one shot. I'm going to try it next playthrough.
Engage fans make it seem like engage maddening early game is as hard as awakening lunatic+ with these takes. They act like if you need to give a unit even slight favouritism for one chapter (one kill a turn), that you’re killing the pace and you’re falling into a “pitfall”. I don’t think you’ll ever be able to convince fire emblem reddit cause they don’t bother to even test the claims they make and judge units like they’re playing a GBA FE game.
This is right on the money tbh, they reference older games and draw false comparisons between the units then write off any arguments I could provide even if backed with math/experience.
Admittedly I have used a speed wing on my Anna at one point but I was doing radiant bow nonsense which weighs her down significantly and it brought me to a important doubling threshold on a paralogue when tonic was added but assuming you aren’t being weighed down you shouldn’t need speed wings on Anna yeah
My griffin knight Anna paired with bond shielding Framme can solo any map. Meanwhile, the only reason I ever loose is when I forget Citrene gets doubled no matter what 😂
Pretty sure you misinterpreted my entire comment (Anna/Mozu flair). I find the whole "why use Anna when you can use Citrinne" argument so many people put out to be dumb when there's no reason you can't use both. Get Anna to 10 before chapter 8 (either 1 map or Paralogue 1 + chapter 7), make her a mage knight, dump excess EXP into Citrinne while you have a physical unit Marthing and Anna + Chloe blowing everything up, and leave the early game with a trained Mage Knight, Sage, Chloe and Amber/Lapis/whoever. Citrinne in Sage also frees up Pandreo to go Mage Knight or Sword Griffin as well, so you can have Anna, Pandreo and Ivy all running around blowing shit up while still having a canter Sage for Thoron, staff utility and Corrin. Honestly though the most annoying anti-Anna argument is "you could give the EXP to someone else" because they never actually say who should get it. That's the big thing with Anna, she's competing against really mediocre units at the time she gets the exp she needs. Exp past level 10 barely matters on Alear and they've usually hitting that by the time you finish paralogue 2. Chloe's already promoted, she wants to be fighting not using Micaiah, and you have two EXP boosting emblems anyway. Louis also has way better things to be doing. Celine doesn't need it, she's probably using Celica. There's nothing Boucheron/Alfred/Etie do with extra levels that makes the early game easier or that can't be replicated by Brodia units. Yunaka usually gets dropped regardless of Micaiah levels. Clanne's usually level 1 or 2 still. Vander is Vander. So the opportunity cost is way lower than people make it out to be, because it's either extra levels on Alear that barely matter or some more EXP for Framme. One other thing I notice is that a lot of the vocal Anna dislikers also really love Clanne. The amount of effort and turns Clanne needs to get to promotion in a timely manner compared to just using Celine and funneling early EXP to Alear, the amount of forges and spirit dust he wants to keep up, not a big deal, but god forbid Anna gets one map with Micaiah. The impression I get is that people feel clever by making the 10% magic growth unit that people scoffed at actually do things. Making a trainee unit pop off doesn't really hit the same way, I guess. And, you know, I do wonder if the reason they see Anna as such a huge opportunity cost is because they're so focused on getting Clanne to work that Alear ends up underleveled and actually needing Micaiah to get to promotion. Side note: I've done Anna 5 -> 10 on chapter 7 in 12 turns. Fairly confident I could pull it off in 7 turns with Favorite Food. I've done a Marth Anna 3 turn paralogue 1 clear that netted her 2.52 levels, which would mean she'd only need one Micaiah cycle or Marth engage to hit 10 on chapter 7. It's not like you have to choose between going fast and using Anna, you can absolutely do both.
God I knew there would be at least one person who uses DT ring as an excuse as to why Citrenne not having speed doesn’t matter. Also the speed tonic people are cringe as fuck too. Anna can use a magic tonic, what now???
"But what if I speed fix Citrinne hmmmmmmm? What will you do then. Heh I sure owned this libtard" or whatever they'd sound like. "Okay. What if I damage "fix" Anna?"
Citrine is good on lyn(sniper), just for the radiant bow astra storm utility, but then again, i had around 7 runs on maddening and on most of them anna was the magic dps(and nos tank) and celine was the only other tome user(i use her for corrin utility)
Oh Also, I think the unit to compare Anna with is Lute from Fe8 instead of Nino. As she joins early as an underlvled mage with the highest Mag growth and good spd growth, while Nino joins really late. Lute is just unfortunate to be in a game where Seth solos the game.
One thing I noticed about Reddit, especially when it comes to unit viability, they glaze the hell out of Enemy phase units with some exceptions. The amount of Louis and Yunaka glazing hurts my soul. I do think that this stems from most people on Reddit’s first game being either Awakening or 3H where the focus is mainly on enemy phase and results in people learning the game through an enemy phase lens. Thus causing them to see units that can do okay to good enemy phasing much higher resulting in Anna being used to her full potential. This compound with the Anna localization and translation drama led to many people to have a negative reaction to Anna before they use her.
@@PetraMacneary 3H is considered to be a heavily enemy focused game in my eyes and most other people’s. This is because 3H has a lot of fairly weak enemies, most maps are rout the enemy, there are little side objectives besides chests, and inclusion of same turn reinforcements. Most notably ambush reinforcements makes building units very limited as the frailer units can get one rounded by a 9 move falcon knight strike force. Also importantly player phased fire emblem games don’t allow you to int into a whole group of enemies and come out as the victor. It is important to note that player phase and enemy phase games don’t exist independently and fall into a spectrum, like conquest being a mix of both.
@andrewisnotme 3h has gambits to lock units in place, if you're making use of those, it absolutely is player phase. Outside of battalion vantage builds, builds are focused on nuking the enemies before they can do anything back, especially due to the crazy amount of power a lot of your units have.
Amber is too squishy to halberdier its basically a worse picket in terms of performance. Goldmary is the only unit i tested where halberdier makes sense due to her high base defense and just enough speed to avoid being doubled lol.
Classic dunning-kruger. From first sight i could tell that Anna is _Superior_ than Citrinne. 1. Gold 2. Its Anna Each of those points is single handedly enough to justify running her over shitrinne. Those people are only mad because they got scammed by Anna
Might get hate might not but honestly the citrinne vs anna is pretty simple and that's just training up anna just isn't worth the investment compared to citrinne who starts Serviceable and takes little personal investment to be powerful with dire thunder for the good part if not the entire game meanwhile anna has to deal with awful bases,needing 5 levels to promote,needing master and second seal,need to get two professionacies just to be good to ok honestly this hole argument reminds of nino vs pent argument.
The arguments are so ridiculous because they are both great units with different opportunity costs. Citrinne doesn't need a map of micaiah or a second seal. Anna doesn't need as much attention to speed fixing or a bond ring/reprisal. Use the one that fits your run better. In an LTC, it's citrinne. If it's a no somniel run, it'd probably be Anna.
How would you get the tome prof on Anna in a reasonable time frame in a run where you can’t get it from sp? If anything Anna would realistically be forced into magic bow build otherwise known as overpriced fogado. Anna really drops off if you can’t use somminel. It’s remotely reasonable to get melee weapon profs because of lief ( let’s pretend we aren’t talking about a unit that really wants to have michiah for the early game) but it just takes too long to get profs from any other emblem in my experience
@ultimaterecoil1136 micaiah still gives tome proficiency, so Anna might be a staff bot a little longer. I dont remember the rank. The celica emblem also gives a tome proficiency, but requires more feeding. Marth has a slow start, but with her Noatun she can still be fed into a sword proficiency for griffen knight, which is the role I like her best in.
Do people still play on fixed mode? Isn’t fixed mode only the first maddening play through and only on maddening or is it every mode the first time through?
Fixed is generally harder due to units never being able to be stat blessed. It also avoids units being stat-cursed so you can guarantee consistent results across playthroughs. Random makes unit eval kind of absurd because you could get stat blessed/cursed units and base arguments/perception of that unit around RNG and not know it.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming But they can also get stat screwed? So the difficulty balances out. Random growths key difference is just being more dynamic. It can be a valid strategy to just decide who you will use based on how they are turning out after some levels.
I've run Anna and Citrinne both on Maddening. Both as Mage Knights, Anna remains consistant throughout my playthrough, with a Magic booster catches up to Citrinnes magic and makes better use of Levin Sword than Citrinne does. Anna damage can be fixed easily, whereas Citrinne wants all the Speed boosters, a competitive Emblem, and the best tomes. Anna has alot of setup in the beginning but becomes a 2nd Pandreo mid and late game. Citrinne falls of lategame and by then unless I saved all my speedwings just for Citrinne she won't double anymore. This was on maddening by the way, I found Anna better to use since most cases she will double more often and as a result will compensate for the 3 less magic she has early game. Give Anna a magic booster and she is basically on par with Citrinne magic wise and naturally faster.
Bolg is +3 MT, but generally cannot be +5ed due to expensive cost to +4 and insane cost to +5. If you +5 a bolg you are now denying other units on your team upgrades in a serious way, it costs a lot of silver/steel to upgrade this thing beyond 3. So Assuming you are rational and leave it at 3, and Levin which cheaply upgrades to 5, you have a +1 more damage tome. However T4 welling is easy to do and Sword power is one of the best archetypes for damage fixing and can give your levin swords +10 damage per attack so generally Levin is better. You can also run this on Griffin Knights who are much faster than MKs and therefore dodge tank better by default or on purpose with AVO stacking and now you win the game.
this reads less like a dumpster fire and more like people just explaining to you, with reasoning, why your metric for comparing units is fundimentally flawed. Im honestly surprised how respectful theyre being here.
I've been down on Citrinne lately as she has good bases, but not very good growths. 10/1 Mage Knight Citrinne 27 Hp, 6 Str, 15 Mag, 15 Dex, 13 Spd, 5 Def, 13 Res, 10 luck, 6 Bld 10/1 Mage Knight Anna 28 hp, 7 str, 12 mag, 15 Dex 14 spd, 5 def, 14 res, 6 luck 6 Bld. at first, Citrinne wins heavily in +3 mag, +2 hitrate and only 1 less spd and hp, but she has 10% less mag and 20% less spd growth, so after a while, Anna growth outdoes Citrinne and gets you more money that you can use to forge your weapons more The unit you rather speedstack is Ivy as she can fly But Citrinne is a fine low effort unit as she doesn't need Micaiah grinding to get promoted, so it makes her easier to fit in teams if you Micaiah grind a different unit I grouped Anna together with Framme, Clanne and Jean as training project units, as those are all underlvled lvl 1 units that also highly appreciate/need some of that Micaiah exp
Tbh you don't need to grind framme. If you want a qi-adept to bonded shield with she doesn't even have to be promoted. Her level doesn't matter because you'll only use her for bonded shield, chain gaurd, and staves anyway.
only time i feel i had to use stat boosters and tonics is on my master save since it makes the DLC maps start with a high level (wish DLC maps were just static levels and did not have level scaling, then you cant over level this way) and needed it to do it to do tiki's map with an under leveled army
Comparing units at lv 30 is kinda silly cause the game is already 80% over at that point. Also this turning into a speed debate when citrinnes best builds dont require speed is also not productive.
Idk if I would say that… the game is mostly over, but it’s also the hardest part in terms on difficulty Bigger maps, harder benchmarks to reach… it’s a hard 20% to navigate sometimes!
I will say although i agree that she isnt the strongest mage if you need a unit to just lob big thorons citrinne is best. She doesn't need any investment really and you can just stick corrin on her. Pretty hilarious that they try to defend her filling a role that she literally doesnt fill, why would you need a fast sage anyway? You dont need speed to put draconic hex on enemies and use staves, if you want a magic user to double go mage knight, and mage knight citrinne is way harder to get online(if its even possible) than anna.
Yeahhh, Reddit's a special place. (And I say that as a Tumblr-ite, so that should tell you something.) In the Fire Emblem Heroes subreddit, I made a comment on the 'Unpopular Opinions' thread, a thread specifically devoted to expressing unpopular opinions, and I said that Hortensia's haters hate her for being a fourteen-year-old girl more than anything else, my reasoning being that everything I have ever heard Hortensia's detractors say they hate about her is a very typical "fourteen-year-old girl" trait, with a side of "teenaged girl who's insecure and seeks attention due to a bad home life"...... and I got downvoted to oblivion. Did not exactly do a good job convincing me I was WRONG to say it. Don't take Reddit seriously, is what I'm saying. (Also, Anna can be made to double pretty easily; I don't know what these guys are talking about.)
@PetraMacneary speed is basically what I meant, I can see why the base speed is as low as it is so they remain challenging to use when first introduced but it shouldn't be so bad that they become useless later without stat boosters.
Yeah... I don't know what Reddit was smoking in that thread. On the game's release, I did a no-DLC, no-Well, no-Stat-Booster Maddening run, and Anna was just a more straightforward character to use. Don't get me wrong - I love Citrinne and RNG-abused 30-45 minutes for the Dire Thunder ring. And even then, she started missing kills in chapters 21 and onward by a point or two. Mage Knight Anna was just overall easier to use, whereas (Sage) Citrinne has a hyper-specific niche.
As you said, in Reddit the majority wins. Thus, the moment something reaches a negative number, more often than not it's staying negative, and the "other side" is going up. Sometimes the one in the negatives is you, others it's them. Even if you're saying the same thing. Who is the one in the negatives? Well, unless the first one says a completely bonkers thing (like idk... Mage Louis), the second one in the argument. It's way better if you don't care about what the echo chamber says and write your thoughts. But also know to cut your losses (or victories) if they're not going anywhere. Once had a thread of over 15 comments which had been resolved and proven in the 3rd comment or so.
Anyone who builds Speed on Citrinne is just.. over thinking things. She hits very hard with Thoron, doesn't need any investment at all. She's even good with vantage. The fastest enemy units are often not double-able even by Chloe. U should always have a Thoron-sage on your team for taking out Wolf Knights and other fast units, meaning u just use both Citrinne and Anna in different classes. (they are for different niches)
Reddit is proof positive of why a democracy sucks. It's just mob rule at the end of the day even if the mob is mathematically illiterate. I commend you for kicking the bee hive but try not to take anything from there personally. It's such a dumpster fire. Your content got me through Maddening for the first time ever (using Anna and Timera). Also your triangle strategy stuff was golden. Can't wait for them to make a TS2.
Your Math always Maths ICG. I've been playing FE since it's release in America, and I have never considered LTC as anything other than a challenge run. In my eyes, that framework of valuing units shouldn't even be considered legitimate by any means and here is why: If you like a game, you want to play it right? Probably a lot? Or at least for long periods of time, because it's fun! But when you are playing a single player game and in a way that significantly reduces the turn count you spend on any given chapter and in the same way real life time, objectively that would be seen as avoiding engagement with the game. If you like it, why would you want to avoid engaging with it? Wouldn't that mean that you don't like it considering you're actively attempting to spend the minimal possible amount of time completing the chapter and engaging with the story? I know this is just my opinion, but the fact of the matter is the largest representation of this community of players who supposedly love this game actively value things in units that reduce your engagement in the game because they are "more efficient" but literally and in practice reduce the amount of time spent even playing the damn game. But in reality most people actually play at a much slower pace and enjoy their single player game at a slower pace. And I also completely agree that LTC is easier than creative building and playing the chapters for what they are with the tools you have in a meaningful and I guess you could say "honest" way. You put me onto Timerra and I discovered Anna on some obscure post a week after the game came out, and I use them very frequently because the startup cost is honestly insignificant across multiple playthroughs on Maddening in both fixed and random growths and their performance just outweighs every other unit in the game bar Chloe more consistently and with less effort. Framme too, my jaw dropped the first time I sent a Bonded Ball into the middle of Chapter 24 deploying only 5 units(all of which I just mentioned plus Alear) and watched them enemy phase every single enemy without taking damage outside of chain attacks and 1 round them in return. The entire map swarms you as you know and they had no issue moving at Framme' pace right up to the boss. Absolutely bonkers but people put 3 out of those 5 units on the bottom of tier lists. Fucking nuts.
I think the only anna refusal is does she earn exp farming more than anyone else. If you ask me, she doesn't. All of the times you farm anna exp, someone else could be using it better in the short term, which is ultimately more important.
I don't agree with that. By the time I get Anna, my Chloe and Alear are usually so ridiculously powerleveled, they barely get any EXP from combat until like 2 maps later. Framme and Jean freely farm EXP with support turns, and none of the other units up until then are anything worth my investment. So who is missing out by me feeding Anna?
Who wants Micaiah that can pop off better than Anna long term early and is a better investment? Chloe/Alear are on combat emblems killing things. Alfred, Louis, Jean, Clanne all either have worse growths/stats or are lower level and require more feeding prior to getting Anna. Framme levels herself to 10 by healing/chain guarding by CH7-8 reliably without Micaiah. Yunaka is not known to be a hard carry, you could argue her but she isn't as good as Chloe/Alear typically. If we look at the Brodians, Citrinne doesn't want Micaiah because she wants kills/combat and can staff utility if you master seal her right away, she would get reduced XP from great saccing. Lapis wants combat XP/put on something like Wyvern. Alcryst can kill flyers/wants combat xp. Boucheron can level from combat if you want to use him and is really the only unit you could argue wants Micaiah. There aren't better options which is why you didn't mention who specifically gets it.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming That's the thing. Anyone is easier to deploy than anna at that point. Anna is just a liability at base, that's the real issue. She has no innate staff access, dog water bases, and needs some kind of support like miccy to actually do anything. Jean has innate staff access, so he can do things w/o miccy to eventually catchup. All of the other units you listed have actual bases or niches for their join time so they don't have to spam miccy the entire map to help. Like, Alfred is pretty mid for his entire existance. But he's basically free for like 7-8 maps, so why not use him. When units have to start "earning" a deployment slot, they should inherently contribute something on that map if you ask me. When Anna joins, she's already a worse boucheron effectively, and he's already probably not sticking around much longer if at all. I struggle to see any real, unbiased reason to deploy her. And for the "lower exp gain" thing, I don't really care what your level 10/20 stats are. Like, it'll eventually matter, sure. But your bases and how much you can do with them matter a lot more imo as to how good a unit is.
@@knivy6160 "Like, Alfred is pretty mid for his entire existance. But he's basically free for like 7-8 maps, so why not use him." because he syphons EXP away from units that actually scale well into endgame, like, say, Anna for example. "All of the other units you listed have actual bases or niches for their join time" you dont pick units to dump exp into based on what they will be useful for in the next 10 minutes, you do it based on the last 10 maps. The actual challenging part of the game that you need to plan for. You're directly making a point against yourself when you say that every other unit is useful even without Micajah, because the obvious conclusion that'd lead to is that Anna is one of the best units to put her on, since no one else needs her to perform, she doesn't have any other use-cases at that time, and she actually scales well later on if you do use Micajah on her. You just choose to ignore that last point for some reason, yet call others biased if they don't evaluate units purely on their join-condition. Earlygame is so piss-easy that using bad units that don't scale into endgame and letting them steal EXP, just to get by, is so obviously suboptimal, compared to using that time to raise the few units you get that actually do something with that investment a few maps later.
@@PetraMacneary "this is the same boat Anna is in as well" no its not, Anna is lacking in EXP, Bunet is lacking in a good passive, good growths, and a good recruitment time. You don't even have Micajah when you get Bunet, and wont for a long while, the comparison makes zero sense. "Every unit in the game can easily be endgame viable with enough support so why is Anna worth more than someone like Alfred?" Because Anna has better growths and a better passive. You need objectively less investment/support for Anna than for Alfred. "Anna isn't worth the heavy investment she requires since after digging her out of her hole she performs as a mediocre unit that other units can do the same or better then." Again, plain wrong, Anna reaches some of the best statlines in the game, and Heal Exp isnt heavy investment in any way, especially WITH Anna, who creates money out of thin air. "you have to do so much just to get her going then feed her skills and boosters to keep her going" again, wrong, I never feed Anna any boosters, she doesn't need them to be a hardcarry. On the other hand, yes she wants skills, but so does every unit, so why even bring it up. Did you actually ever use her as a magic damage dealer? Because I don't think you're actually talking from experience.
Honestly your original video wasn’t even being that mean about it! I do like Citrinne as a low investment staff bot with Corrin and Thoron, like that’s kinda all she needs to stick around for me. But the way people act like it’s so difficult to get Anna going… is it annoying? 1000%, but she’s a trainee growth unit, that’s kinda the point or both her and Jean Speaking of Jean, you can use his paralogue to level Anna up a bit, then finish leveling her to 10 in CH7. Yes the Micaiah heal set ups are kinda annoying sometimes, but so is getting a bad level up! These things happen I just think it’s silly. Hell, Anna usually hasn’t even been that amazing for me. I don’t like her as a Sage, and when she’s not killing fliers with Radiant Bow she’s mostly just doing chip to enemies (in my experience). But I feel like people overstate the case against Anna. I do like using both, Citrinne as a Thoron poking staff bot (support units just help your combat units snowball) and Anna as a whatever tf you want, I like trying to increase her Luck as much as I can (which is why that redditor said to use Leif I think? The Build is nice but Light Brand is a magic sword with +10 Luck, very cool for her)
Citrinne does over 50% hp with thoron even in the end game to every unit in the game, even if she does not get the kill, she sets up kills for someone else to finish off the target safely and not take damage. If you need to take 2 actions to kill a target, then you take 2 actions, if you thoron with citrinne first then finish off with another unit - you took no damage - coffee would double the enemy, take damage, then need to get healed after which is still 2 actions for 1 kill. Better to go with a great thoron poker so you don't need to use stave charges and be more efficient this way. Citrinne has always been my lowest investment unit in the game, she uses 2-3k SP for Momentum and Canter/Canter+ and holds Corrin ring usually. Anna better as a sniper with claude's ring, you get bolganone, excalibur, and thoron with a single item and occasional long bow for chip damage; and 10% crit for being a sniper and a ton of dex to always have 100% hit vs griffin knights. Not every unit needs speed to be good, you massively over value speed. I can make Louis one shot everyone in the entire game (except very high hp and def generals in the end game), he does end up getting a lot of exp because of Sigurd ultimate getting multi-kills (this is after you get Sigurd back). Louis is S tier, immediately strong, he mostly uses spear and silver greatlance - eventually you can swap them out for S rank spear, S rank smash lance, and add on brave lance since doubling with a high strength user is usually stronger than quading on a speedster (granted quading with Eirika ring and Flashing Fist usually ends up being the best, but Eirika does give an insane amount of might).
@@Sarmachus Wolf Knight Lapis, Micaiah engrave her silver dagger, she becomes the best avoid tank in the game and really supported by her insane amount of supports that she gets!
Sorry, the rule is, early game units will always be worse then later units, and at best equal to. Thats what i am told.' Using Starsphere and micaiah is cheating and doesnt count. Also, going out of your way to train a units is also cheating, because a unit can NEVER outpace levels on a later game units with use of macaiah, marth or lineage from edelgard dlc. Sorry Coffee! Also, using second seals and master seals is only okay when i need to use them, but not when you use them.
I don't get why people act like this like. Just say you like Citrine over Anna. There is nothing wrong with using a character over the better one just becuase you like them.
Citrinee is my favorite character so i will sacrifice everything for her and im not playing on maddening so the enemies have less stat and i may have grinded bond fragments to get spd +5 and always give her spd tonic but i love her she is my waifu so every mage ended up around 31 or 33 and no i dont hate anna i use her every time because she makes money and i like her
i don't even like using anna ( she really good) but i rather using her over Citrinne. Personally early game i live without a mage. I hold off for the goat Pandreo and use the okayish ivy when she comes. Main reason is so i can dump experience into Alear and Alcryst ( just a favorite of mine) with units like Chloe and Framme taking levels also.
I started following FE channels since engage. Has the Reddit community always been so terrible in terms of attitude ? Plus they can’t do math and don’t even seem to test their stuff outside of their biased lens… Legit if you play normally between a semi-fast and a semi-slow pace everything Coffee says is true… And every video caveats with « if you like the character play it it’s fine, it’s just not the best »
Citrinne is a practically no investment thoron-stave utility unit, Anna requires quite a lot of investment to get going and to pop off, so they are very different types of units.
It's your :) Your :) will bring the salt Also you never know who is a literal child on the Internet. And I had some pretty bad Amelia related takes on the internet and wasted a lot of other people's time when I was a kid
Nah it's probably because it's brain dead easy to get citrinnne online, as long as they get the dire thunder ring there's not a lot of adjustments they need to make.
@@LanceRedCock yeah but being that she's the one who has thunder in her inventory before ivy arrives and reddit has a boner for not investing in Anna, she's probably the unit they'll argue for lol.
God, I despise reddit. I only lasted an hour before I had to delete my account. I wanted to post a review about Engage and why I think the game is disappointing and bad. In response, I had people telling me to self delete myself and well, that was the end of that. When Iced Coffee mentions the reddit mob that wants you dead, he's telling the truth. It's hard to find people who can talk and have opinions about a dumb video game in a respectful way. I feel like I'm getting yelled at by five year olds all the time that have only played one fire emblem game (Engage) that is flawless in every way and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong....ugghhhh....
Choosing violence on new years eve I see. I lack your experience by a long shot, but for the past year the 'speed is easy to manage' talk has been dominant with Lyn's kit being so notorious. Honestly contested unit meta discussion on the main sub looks way spicier then Edelgard discourse(it was bad in it's first year but the vast majority can be more mellow and detached). You got more of these in the pipeline? I think the classic forum era was a bit better for those really back and forths. reddit can be interesting still even if it's only viewed a day or two or so. I plan to replay the game at some point, but I got those DLC emblem maps now which really favor Anna too since those extend early/midgame a lot because there's just do many to clear. Even with the emblem system being deep, Engage's progression is a bit odd with the Solm deploy squeeze and good new unit rush, at least with perception of the game. Compare FE6 Miledy/Percivial being notorious free midgame combat gods, but this is even sillier for the how the collective view ended up.
Pandreo has the lowest DEF in the game. Celine has alright DEF, similar magic to Pandreo, and she is way faster and can have Ignis procs to do more damage than Pandreo. Also, Framme Sage is just better than Pandreo. If the only weapon Citrinne uses is Thoron, then she only needs is magic, and is really strong the entire game since she being good the whole time and not taking away a bunch of exp from your carries.
Ahah we gave you content I had a hunch it may be you when you shared the meme in a community post Reddit may be a bit mean when it comes to arguments and debates we had 100 times already, but it's not an alien hive mind either. If everyone there thinks you're wrong... It's not reddit bro
@@IcedCoffeeGaming I addressed all of your arguments in the thread so it's not like I'm the one with the conspiracy theory here. As others comments said, Citrinne's speed doesn't matter, she's mainly a Thoron nuke that doesn't want or need to double. Well if you really want Citrinne to double you can use Dire Thunder or Echo + dual assist bots but that's not the point. Anna does want to double because she has lower magic than Citrinne for most of the game, but her speed is just a little bit too low. You can patch it with favoritism but imo it's not worth the trouble, Clanne and Céline are better options for your speedy earlygame mage Also I like how when you compare Anna and Ivy's speed, it's fine, but when I point out that Anna is slower than Boucheron for most of the game, you say it's a bullshit argument. 1500 hours played and you still don't know your speed benchmarks ? Don't accuse others of a lack of game knowledge after that.
Citrinne is good because of her low investment, low exp requirement, very high utility, and low resources. Thoron+1 Sage Citrinne best unit, minus the fact that she gets no supports; Lapis gets an insane amount of supports. Anna is still high investment, high exp requirement, no utility because you want her to get kills to make gold, and low resources with if you are going radiant bow and long bow Anna.
Even if you want Anna to get kills for gold value it can still be worth using staves. Notably using fortify gets you a full engage back which can net you more kills then the one you lost from using a staff especially on enemy phase. You can just have a qi adept bonded shield unit support her and get those gold kills on enemy phase. Her frailty makes her a attractive target. Btw high priest underrated it’s higher engage uptime can be worth it on anyone not named pandreo ( who can use fortify in sage) especially with Celica and Erika ( Celica because she makes up for the lower tome rank with you never not wanting to use seraphim anyway and Erika because she buffs the whole team if you’ve been inheriting gentility and lunar brace
In fairness to the citrinne stans. The framme(lucina) anna (any emblem) combo can be achieved with the seadoll and citrinne. But seadoll has support with pandreo... Nvm citrinne still mage etie. Even clanne is better than citrinne and i stand by that
Big Citrinne is colluding with Big Etie to silence honest hardworking annas and timerras.
Lmfao so true
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Petition to get Iced Coffee onto Mekkah's channel for a guest appearance to discuss Timerra propaganda.
Lmao
Gotta love the person who said +5 Speed is barely useful or dubiously useful in Engage. It's just the most important stat, both for survivability and doubling. And Citrinne's speed is atroicious, known to be easily doubled. Not to mention, the more SPD you have, you will begin doubling even fairly quick enemies.
At least I got some laughs here. Happy New Year and all the best for your channel next year!
+5 speed usually means doubling too. Is that guy even playing the same game
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Some people just don't get FE man, I love using Citrinne but she is worse than Anna on average due to her speed issues. If she had average speed, I see an argument for Ice's naysayers, however I do agree with them that Anna is annoying to train even if it isn't that hard.
I mean it depends. Generally engage units either have all the speed they realistically need and want might or have all the might they realistically need and want speed. Amber wants speed+5 or to be reclassed. Kagetsu wants to be reclassed to wyvern or get lunar brace. Depending on the unit speed+5 genuinely isn’t valuable or is arguably single best skill. Speed more then any other stat is threshold based. Once you double you get diminishing returns on more speed but getting to those thresholds is amazing. And generally a lot of the more commonly used ones are the ones that want slight might fixing because the classes that might fix like wyvern and warrior are preferable to classes that speed fix like griffon wolf knight bow knight or thief. Notably there is more serious speed fix classes then strength fix classes ( a whole 2 barring diamant’s personal) so for the guys with strength but not speed they have more flexibility. Cav and flying bonded shield options as opposed to just flying access to covert which has good emblem bonuses like with byleth ect ect. You need to be really slow for you to just not be better off changing to a speed class to speed fix.
@@ultimaterecoil1136 meanwhile i am here holding my 40 speed general chloe
"I don't like Anna so I never put in the effort to use her because she is bad." Proceeds to have an opinion on a unit they allegedly never use. Brilliant.
Honestly just use them both? Good magic units are at a premium in this game. The only real flaw with Anna is a tiny amount of babying in her first 1-3 chapters (depending on how much time you want to spend per chapter) and the limited promotion/reclass items available early game. Honestly, this is the best argument against Anna and none of them brought it up -- She requires a Second Seal in addition to a Master Seal, as well as the proper weapon masteries that you almost certainly will have to spend bond fragments on.
Having said that, it ends up worth it IMO if you're playing even slightly casually, people pretend she's like Est and she isn't, she's more like Ross, she joins early enough that a small amount of favoritism can allow her to snowball insanely.
This is fair. I just prefer my magical core to consist of Ivy Anna and Chloe/pandreo
ngl I never noticed how wack Citrinne is as a unit til I tried to find a reason to use her over Gregory or Anna. Alcryst's whole group is pretty much "use them if you like them"
I’ve been able to get really strong performances out of lapis she’s just outclassed by other units which isn’t necessarily her fault. There’s just some really other strong units
@@MrWingzeroo I honestly think she's the most useful of her group but she's sandwiched in between Chloé and Kagetsu who are both insanely valuable units. I use her on every playthrough and there's value to using any one of Alcryst's trio but there's always a better alt
It is a bit crazy to me how the same people who say:
“Citrinne is fast enough when given skills, emblems, food/tonics, and is always in range of her dedicated Byleth speed rally bot, so you’re argument is invalid”
are also the same ones who outcried when I said “you know, Alcryst actually keeps pace with an equal IL Etie’s strength for longer than people give credit because of his +3 personal which is super easy to trigger every turn” with “Omg, why bother triggering his personal skill it’s soooo much work; Alcryst sucks, Etie based”
Like, the inconsistencies of when they decide to apply their logic and when they don’t is astounding.
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It's ok they're just trying to protect their favorite videogame waifu
@@PetraMacnearythe argument was specifically them saying Sniper Etie is better than Tireur Alcryst. In that situation, she only has 15 STR, 10 SPD, and 5(?) Wt when promoted, which is a very different stat spread from her Warrior set. Also, neither are prime candidates for the earliest master seals even if you plan on putting her in Warrior, meaning you’re looking at Archer vs Lord until ~level 13-15 unpromoted during which Alcryst still has advantages on top of not requiring the extra early game exp (personally I find training her a bit annoying in those very early chapters because I’d rather use her to chip and set up kills for someone like Chloe or Alear instead).
And I guess it depends on how you play. Even when I’m being very player phase focussed, I still usually send a unit ahead to trigger movement of the next enemy group every turn so I’m not wasting a lot of time, and keeping Alcryst within 2 slots has never really been an issue (though I also don’t heavily use warp strats, and those would definitely affect this)
@@PetraMacneary You're getting Etie to that level?
You claim this unit is bad but when I give it every stat booster in existence and experience it's good, curious
omg hi I'm in the video 3:00 (It's the "I'm a simple man. I see Amber, I give an upvote)
The only time my citrenne ever was good was with dire thunder. I’ve never had her be useful immediately as she only pokes in her joining chapter. She’s just way too slow to make use of without dire thunder, where Anna with noa and mica can actually do things. Who else are you giving mica to in those early chapters? People act like micaiah is some super contested resource when all your combat units are always over level. Unless you want to stick with all the early game units.
Give Citrinne Thoron+1, any engrave that gives hit rate (you can wait on the engrave), with canter and momentum, and 4 staves; ring choice does not really matter much either, prob just anything with magic on it or Corrin later.
She will one shot with thoron and momentum for like the first half of the game while providing stave utility with 4 staves options at all times.
Dude it’s so easy to fix speed in engage. Yes Anna doesn’t need that speed fixing and thus can fit stuff like canter hold out ect but basically anyone can double even Louis and I’m not even talking about halberdier ( though halberdier is a way more efficient way for Louis to go about it) and the few enemies impractical to double you can shoot for one shots on with thoron
@@MasterStacona so what you’re saying is that you need to invest a whole bunch of shit into maxxing the damage of a super heavy tome instead of just OHKO doubling with any other unit. I love this particular discussion because no one is ever saying citrenne is unusable or bad. She has a specific niche, and needs resources to really fit into that niche. The ironic part is that people hold other units to an unrealistic standard in comparison. Anna can do the one shot build too, and so can ivy, and so can pandreo. The process you described doesn’t work because citrenne contributes anything unique to the equation, it works because it’s a viable build.
One of the funniest Anna builds I ever did was high priest Anna. The only skills she had were +10HP/ +10LCK and Gentility+. I swapped between byleth and corrin rings. She had stupidly high HP and could survive a lot of dumb shit (fixed mode maddening), while being able to double nearly everything with +3 forged elfire with Sigurd engrave.
She wasn’t even the bonded target and yet I could use her to solo the map due to her ability to self heal with her own staves. Citrenne just can’t do stuff like that with the exact same levels of investment.
PS: I never used starsphere either. Tiki level with bond frags only. I wanted to see how far I could meme her luck up for the passive.
I’ve had good success with her as a Thoron poker/cannon and as a thoron debuffer.
She’s not in contest with pandreo and Anna because she doesn’t fulfill the same role. If you’re using her as a mage knight to double and blah blah blah I think you’re going about it the wrong way
Coffee : breathes
Reddit : execute this man
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I love how they just ignore your Anna level up video because they can’t refute it.
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@@PetraMacneary What are the good units?
@@PetraMacneary Wtf?
@@PetraMacneary Etie is easy to level up?
@@PetraMacnearychip doesn’t get you hardly any exp and Etie can’t enemy phase so how many turns are you playing per map to feed Etie kills? I think the TH-camr with 1000+ hrs on the game knows a little bit about good/bad units.
Honestly, the problem is the fan base perspective. Early on, fire emblem guides over valued trainee units like Nino (possibly the most notorious example, and it was brought up this video). These units showed up way too late and tended to require an incredible amount of extra work to get to somewhat usable points in power while these games handed you real powerhouses regularly, the big numbers they hit at the end was overblown since they likely stayed behind other units even if favored, and the enemies had low stats anyways. Now, thanks to the influence of members of the fan base like Mekkah (no disrespect at all by the way, he's great, only problem I'm pointing out is others vaguely trying to repeat the ideas without truly understanding them), it's been pushing in the opposite direction for a while where any units that even vaguely looks like a trainee unit must automatically be trash that needs an incredible amount of favoritism to work. I'd agree most trainees in the series are very bad, but when we run into a situation where we get a game (engage) where the units we get early on are mostly bad, units that start and are good later in the game take a while to get to, and we get incredible resources early on, people panic and don't know what to do. Anna looks vaguely like trainee (debatable just how much she is one, since she isnt even that far behind what other units look like at that point, but her and Jean are some of the closest examples we got), so for many now active in the fan base on TH-cam and reddit, that equals bad unit that requires favoritism instantly in theit minds. That just 1-2 chapters (I'd go with 2, if I understand correctly, you're doubling the turns you take on the first Brodia chapter to do 1. That's not out there unreasonable, but we start stretching it there and open way for weirder choices of time and resources. Normal pace for 2 chapters, however, is fine in my mind) of normal gameplay, not sandbagging, with an early game resource is unacceptable, it must be way too much investment, literally like setting up and feeding Nino every single kill multiple chapters in a row. Ways to invest this resource don't even need to be brought up, that the only other units at this point as good candidates for Micaih being Alear and Chloé, both busy carrying emblems like Marth and Sigurd in order to actually carry and win at a reasonable pace, doesn't even need to come up. That Anna is arguably a better Micaih user than our other units even if we exclude level up considerations because she has added backup utility in base class doesn't come up. All that matters is at base level, if you RNG abuse to get an Olwen ring (which is apparently a reasonable idea, unlike just play the game normally for 2 chapters, since it's an item you can get early on if you mess around and reset multiple times to try and get it), and give Citrinnr stat boosters, then Citrinne kinda can just take out enemies without level ups, so she must be pwnage incarnate, like Pent!
Honestly I think you hit the nail on the head. There is a kind of Trainee hysteria induced by influencers opinions despite Engage being nothing like those games so people are living in GBA era slinging up these hot takes of Pent vs Nino when in reality even the best engage units want resources like emblems, forges, tonics, etc.
Your last chance to say sorry to Etie before 2023 ends
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lmao
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You like Citrinne because she has a high magic stat. I like Citrinne 'cuz she's pretty. We are not the same.
The first time I played maddening, I had beaten the game twice on hard so ran a bunch of meme builds. The difficulty spike in CH21 caught me by surprise, suddenly I was getting stared down by 5 generals and 2 snipers who my whole team struggled to deal with and could kill any of my units if left unchecked. Since then I've always mentally split the game into a preparation stage (Chapter 1 through 20) and endgame.
In short, conversation about Citrinne (or any unit really) putting in "more work" in the early game is pointless. If you want good tools to actually beat maddening there are certain benchmarks that make a difference long term. The same tools that can salvage a unit you like late game can be used to invest in a better unit in early game.
In short, I'm calling the Amber lance.
It's crazy how hard the game becomes. Ch 24 especially can just straight up end your run for good.
Exactly, the game becomes very hard C21 onward so units who cannot meet 1 rounding thresholds without significant help make your run harder. Early chapters outside of LTC play are easy.
I mean I actually think Citrinne is quite good. Strict stats dont really showcase exactly what she does, or what makes her good. She doesnt need speed when shes one-shotting or setting up one-shots for other units that need a kill to level (or cant kill on their own). But at the same time, it is really bizarre how far these people are willing to go to deny how good Anna is, or how easy it is to use her. Its like, "do you play fire emblem?" "Do you level units?" Lol Like, using Anna is just like using any other unit, and is just like leveling literally every other unit in any other fire emblem game. -- its HOW you play the game. You get units, choose which ones you want to use, and then level them through gameplay. Its literally no different. People just want to deny and hate on Anna for no reason.
I found Anna completely unusable on Maniac. But Im sure youre right on lower difficulties.
Yeah ill concur shes not great on maniac@@HisCoconutGun
@@HisCoconutGunmaniac difficulty is unbeatable so yeah she’s not good on that difficulty.
@russellg9622 I mean I beat it before the DLC and updates but it was very hard. It's straight up easy with the DLC
Anna is probably the most efficient unit in the game
I remember seeing a video saying that Anna isn't a good unit and using Citrinne as a comparison. From what I can recall, the video showed how Anna couldn't double a chapter 21 general. There's also something about how Anna may struggle to kill armors even if she could while a doubling Citrinne can kill.
Here's the link if you're by any chance curious: th-cam.com/video/cvXxcXw36Hg/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
Surprised Triabolical made this, I thought he was smart but I guess not.
He is framing this to make Citrinne look good and ignoring clear advantages Anna brings to the table to make her look bad.
I will make a video response to this, I can imagine dumb videos like this are why people genuinely think Anna is bad.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming I think this would be a cool video series (or one long video reaction) if you do decide to do this. There are many Engage tier lists on TH-cam that I felt were disingenuous. Mostly because there is an argument to be made that if you prep before hand, you can make any character good if you want to. That's why I think tier lists for Engage on TH-cam is a complete rabbit hole. Any other FE game before this felt like a completely different story, but because you can build any character in this game any way you want, it kind of makes tier lists for this game in particular kind of mute. I don't know if you agree with me, but that's just my dumb gamer opinion on the matter that plays fire emblem games for fun.
I think the problem is its a single player game. I noticed the same issue when discussing games like Bauldersgate 3 also. There are some subclasses that are HORRIBLE because you have a party of 4, but people like to play how they play so they ignore actual facts. The other aspect is a lot of redditors probably don't play in maddening so they can run whatever. I mostly played in hard and everything is strong in that mode.
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reddit is suddenly convinced speed is the worst stat in the game, actually
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AKSCHULLY
Ok but what about this argument, Cittrine is better in a first/blind playthrough because who the fuck would know anna has magic scaling.
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Anna going warrior radiant bow still isnt horrible and cittrines go to build being an exploit on the gacha game is notable. Reguardless though if youre looking up tier list to see good units that kinda already invalidates the going in with no knowledge thing.
Yeah that is fine, Citrinne is more straight forward to use and requires less game knowledge to use well.
Citrinne's use case is as "backup worse Anna" because Anna's insane, so thats a perfectly acceptable niche but people can overrate it.
I'm going to have to give this Anna thing a shot. But this and my own playthrough got me thinking that Cetrinne is supposed to one shot. I'm going to try it next playthrough.
Engage fans make it seem like engage maddening early game is as hard as awakening lunatic+ with these takes. They act like if you need to give a unit even slight favouritism for one chapter (one kill a turn), that you’re killing the pace and you’re falling into a “pitfall”. I don’t think you’ll ever be able to convince fire emblem reddit cause they don’t bother to even test the claims they make and judge units like they’re playing a GBA FE game.
Probably same players that have to end their run at ch 24
This is right on the money tbh, they reference older games and draw false comparisons between the units then write off any arguments I could provide even if backed with math/experience.
The mental gymnastics Redditors will go through to defend their waifu lmfao
Admittedly I have used a speed wing on my Anna at one point but I was doing radiant bow nonsense which weighs her down significantly and it brought me to a important doubling threshold on a paralogue when tonic was added but assuming you aren’t being weighed down you shouldn’t need speed wings on Anna yeah
Man who can't control his horsey has Reddit in a chokehold, Amber is an S tier unit. Bump him up from A tier, Mr Coffee.
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Amber is honestly so goated with Lance power and Wyvern. Man demolishes units the amber Lance.
My griffin knight Anna paired with bond shielding Framme can solo any map. Meanwhile, the only reason I ever loose is when I forget Citrene gets doubled no matter what 😂
man i havent been on reddit in years seeing how much of a cesspool it is makes me so glad i havent gone back to it lol
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Wonderfully trolled bro.
Pretty sure you misinterpreted my entire comment (Anna/Mozu flair). I find the whole "why use Anna when you can use Citrinne" argument so many people put out to be dumb when there's no reason you can't use both. Get Anna to 10 before chapter 8 (either 1 map or Paralogue 1 + chapter 7), make her a mage knight, dump excess EXP into Citrinne while you have a physical unit Marthing and Anna + Chloe blowing everything up, and leave the early game with a trained Mage Knight, Sage, Chloe and Amber/Lapis/whoever. Citrinne in Sage also frees up Pandreo to go Mage Knight or Sword Griffin as well, so you can have Anna, Pandreo and Ivy all running around blowing shit up while still having a canter Sage for Thoron, staff utility and Corrin.
Honestly though the most annoying anti-Anna argument is "you could give the EXP to someone else" because they never actually say who should get it. That's the big thing with Anna, she's competing against really mediocre units at the time she gets the exp she needs. Exp past level 10 barely matters on Alear and they've usually hitting that by the time you finish paralogue 2. Chloe's already promoted, she wants to be fighting not using Micaiah, and you have two EXP boosting emblems anyway. Louis also has way better things to be doing. Celine doesn't need it, she's probably using Celica. There's nothing Boucheron/Alfred/Etie do with extra levels that makes the early game easier or that can't be replicated by Brodia units. Yunaka usually gets dropped regardless of Micaiah levels. Clanne's usually level 1 or 2 still. Vander is Vander. So the opportunity cost is way lower than people make it out to be, because it's either extra levels on Alear that barely matter or some more EXP for Framme.
One other thing I notice is that a lot of the vocal Anna dislikers also really love Clanne. The amount of effort and turns Clanne needs to get to promotion in a timely manner compared to just using Celine and funneling early EXP to Alear, the amount of forges and spirit dust he wants to keep up, not a big deal, but god forbid Anna gets one map with Micaiah. The impression I get is that people feel clever by making the 10% magic growth unit that people scoffed at actually do things. Making a trainee unit pop off doesn't really hit the same way, I guess. And, you know, I do wonder if the reason they see Anna as such a huge opportunity cost is because they're so focused on getting Clanne to work that Alear ends up underleveled and actually needing Micaiah to get to promotion.
Side note: I've done Anna 5 -> 10 on chapter 7 in 12 turns. Fairly confident I could pull it off in 7 turns with Favorite Food. I've done a Marth Anna 3 turn paralogue 1 clear that netted her 2.52 levels, which would mean she'd only need one Micaiah cycle or Marth engage to hit 10 on chapter 7. It's not like you have to choose between going fast and using Anna, you can absolutely do both.
God I knew there would be at least one person who uses DT ring as an excuse as to why Citrenne not having speed doesn’t matter. Also the speed tonic people are cringe as fuck too. Anna can use a magic tonic, what now???
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"But what if I speed fix Citrinne hmmmmmmm? What will you do then. Heh I sure owned this libtard" or whatever they'd sound like.
"Okay. What if I damage "fix" Anna?"
Citrine is good on lyn(sniper), just for the radiant bow astra storm utility, but then again, i had around 7 runs on maddening and on most of them anna was the magic dps(and nos tank) and celine was the only other tome user(i use her for corrin utility)
Oh Also, I think the unit to compare Anna with is Lute from Fe8 instead of Nino. As she joins early as an underlvled mage with the highest Mag growth and good spd growth, while Nino joins really late.
Lute is just unfortunate to be in a game where Seth solos the game.
One thing I noticed about Reddit, especially when it comes to unit viability, they glaze the hell out of Enemy phase units with some exceptions. The amount of Louis and Yunaka glazing hurts my soul. I do think that this stems from most people on Reddit’s first game being either Awakening or 3H where the focus is mainly on enemy phase and results in people learning the game through an enemy phase lens. Thus causing them to see units that can do okay to good enemy phasing much higher resulting in Anna being used to her full potential. This compound with the Anna localization and translation drama led to many people to have a negative reaction to Anna before they use her.
@@PetraMacneary 3H is considered to be a heavily enemy focused game in my eyes and most other people’s. This is because 3H has a lot of fairly weak enemies, most maps are rout the enemy, there are little side objectives besides chests, and inclusion of same turn reinforcements. Most notably ambush reinforcements makes building units very limited as the frailer units can get one rounded by a 9 move falcon knight strike force. Also importantly player phased fire emblem games don’t allow you to int into a whole group of enemies and come out as the victor. It is important to note that player phase and enemy phase games don’t exist independently and fall into a spectrum, like conquest being a mix of both.
@andrewisnotme 3h has gambits to lock units in place, if you're making use of those, it absolutely is player phase. Outside of battalion vantage builds, builds are focused on nuking the enemies before they can do anything back, especially due to the crazy amount of power a lot of your units have.
They don't know Lief is the most important emblem to get as many wolf knights as possible
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I'm enjoying this series of antagonizing reddit. Plz make sure to continue it next year
Amber is too squishy to halberdier its basically a worse picket in terms of performance. Goldmary is the only unit i tested where halberdier makes sense due to her high base defense and just enough speed to avoid being doubled lol.
Chapter 8 on hard mode and I already am getting level 13 skirmishes and they call level 20 endgame
Classic dunning-kruger. From first sight i could tell that Anna is _Superior_ than Citrinne.
1. Gold
2. Its Anna
Each of those points is single handedly enough to justify running her over shitrinne. Those people are only mad because they got scammed by Anna
Might get hate might not but honestly the citrinne vs anna is pretty simple and that's just training up anna just isn't worth the investment compared to citrinne who starts Serviceable and takes little personal investment to be powerful with dire thunder for the good part if not the entire game meanwhile anna has to deal with awful bases,needing 5 levels to promote,needing master and second seal,need to get two professionacies just to be good to ok honestly this hole argument reminds of nino vs pent argument.
The arguments are so ridiculous because they are both great units with different opportunity costs. Citrinne doesn't need a map of micaiah or a second seal. Anna doesn't need as much attention to speed fixing or a bond ring/reprisal. Use the one that fits your run better. In an LTC, it's citrinne. If it's a no somniel run, it'd probably be Anna.
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How would you get the tome prof on Anna in a reasonable time frame in a run where you can’t get it from sp? If anything Anna would realistically be forced into magic bow build otherwise known as overpriced fogado. Anna really drops off if you can’t use somminel. It’s remotely reasonable to get melee weapon profs because of lief ( let’s pretend we aren’t talking about a unit that really wants to have michiah for the early game) but it just takes too long to get profs from any other emblem in my experience
@@ultimaterecoil1136 you can get tome prof but wont get immediate 1 chapter lv 10 tho
@ultimaterecoil1136 micaiah still gives tome proficiency, so Anna might be a staff bot a little longer. I dont remember the rank. The celica emblem also gives a tome proficiency, but requires more feeding. Marth has a slow start, but with her Noatun she can still be fed into a sword proficiency for griffen knight, which is the role I like her best in.
the real friends was the war with reddit we made along the way
Do people still play on fixed mode? Isn’t fixed mode only the first maddening play through and only on maddening or is it every mode the first time through?
Fixed is generally harder due to units never being able to be stat blessed. It also avoids units being stat-cursed so you can guarantee consistent results across playthroughs. Random makes unit eval kind of absurd because you could get stat blessed/cursed units and base arguments/perception of that unit around RNG and not know it.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming But they can also get stat screwed? So the difficulty balances out. Random growths key difference is just being more dynamic. It can be a valid strategy to just decide who you will use based on how they are turning out after some levels.
I've run Anna and Citrinne both on Maddening. Both as Mage Knights, Anna remains consistant throughout my playthrough, with a Magic booster catches up to Citrinnes magic and makes better use of Levin Sword than Citrinne does. Anna damage can be fixed easily, whereas Citrinne wants all the Speed boosters, a competitive Emblem, and the best tomes.
Anna has alot of setup in the beginning but becomes a 2nd Pandreo mid and late game. Citrinne falls of lategame and by then unless I saved all my speedwings just for Citrinne she won't double anymore. This was on maddening by the way, I found Anna better to use since most cases she will double more often and as a result will compensate for the 3 less magic she has early game. Give Anna a magic booster and she is basically on par with Citrinne magic wise and naturally faster.
Bolg is +3 MT, but generally cannot be +5ed due to expensive cost to +4 and insane cost to +5. If you +5 a bolg you are now denying other units on your team upgrades in a serious way, it costs a lot of silver/steel to upgrade this thing beyond 3.
So Assuming you are rational and leave it at 3, and Levin which cheaply upgrades to 5, you have a +1 more damage tome. However T4 welling is easy to do and Sword power is one of the best archetypes for damage fixing and can give your levin swords +10 damage per attack so generally Levin is better. You can also run this on Griffin Knights who are much faster than MKs and therefore dodge tank better by default or on purpose with AVO stacking and now you win the game.
Is the Amberlance meme Amber as a Royal Knight because he can heal like an ambulance ?
Sandstorm
this reads less like a dumpster fire and more like people just explaining to you, with reasoning, why your metric for comparing units is fundimentally flawed. Im honestly surprised how respectful theyre being here.
But Anna has similar Magic at Lv 30 when you are fighting the final Boss! Which is all that matters right? who cares about early and mid game?
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i wouldn't call it respectful lmao considering the bad faith arguments . i just think some people don't like using units they have to reclass
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Yes their reasoning invoking older games and memeing on me was very respectful and logical. 10/10 would reddit again
I've been down on Citrinne lately as she has good bases, but not very good growths.
10/1 Mage Knight Citrinne
27 Hp, 6 Str, 15 Mag, 15 Dex, 13 Spd, 5 Def, 13 Res, 10 luck, 6 Bld
10/1 Mage Knight Anna
28 hp, 7 str, 12 mag, 15 Dex 14 spd, 5 def, 14 res, 6 luck 6 Bld.
at first, Citrinne wins heavily in +3 mag, +2 hitrate and only 1 less spd and hp, but she has 10% less mag and 20% less spd growth, so after a while, Anna growth outdoes Citrinne and gets you more money that you can use to forge your weapons more
The unit you rather speedstack is Ivy as she can fly
But Citrinne is a fine low effort unit as she doesn't need Micaiah grinding to get promoted, so it makes her easier to fit in teams if you Micaiah grind a different unit
I grouped Anna together with Framme, Clanne and Jean as training project units, as those are all underlvled lvl 1 units that also highly appreciate/need some of that Micaiah exp
Tbh you don't need to grind framme. If you want a qi-adept to bonded shield with she doesn't even have to be promoted. Her level doesn't matter because you'll only use her for bonded shield, chain gaurd, and staves anyway.
only time i feel i had to use stat boosters and tonics is on my master save since it makes the DLC maps start with a high level (wish DLC maps were just static levels and did not have level scaling, then you cant over level this way) and needed it to do it to do tiki's map with an under leveled army
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Comparing units at lv 30 is kinda silly cause the game is already 80% over at that point.
Also this turning into a speed debate when citrinnes best builds dont require speed is also not productive.
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Anna only has a 10 percent higher growth rate so at its highest wouldnt it still only be 3 points wouldnt it?
Idk if I would say that… the game is mostly over, but it’s also the hardest part in terms on difficulty
Bigger maps, harder benchmarks to reach… it’s a hard 20% to navigate sometimes!
I will say although i agree that she isnt the strongest mage if you need a unit to just lob big thorons citrinne is best. She doesn't need any investment really and you can just stick corrin on her. Pretty hilarious that they try to defend her filling a role that she literally doesnt fill, why would you need a fast sage anyway? You dont need speed to put draconic hex on enemies and use staves, if you want a magic user to double go mage knight, and mage knight citrinne is way harder to get online(if its even possible) than anna.
Yeahhh, Reddit's a special place. (And I say that as a Tumblr-ite, so that should tell you something.) In the Fire Emblem Heroes subreddit, I made a comment on the 'Unpopular Opinions' thread, a thread specifically devoted to expressing unpopular opinions, and I said that Hortensia's haters hate her for being a fourteen-year-old girl more than anything else, my reasoning being that everything I have ever heard Hortensia's detractors say they hate about her is a very typical "fourteen-year-old girl" trait, with a side of "teenaged girl who's insecure and seeks attention due to a bad home life"...... and I got downvoted to oblivion. Did not exactly do a good job convincing me I was WRONG to say it.
Don't take Reddit seriously, is what I'm saying.
(Also, Anna can be made to double pretty easily; I don't know what these guys are talking about.)
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Cmon IS throw Etie and Citrinne lovers a bone already raising their growths
@PetraMacneary speed is basically what I meant, I can see why the base speed is as low as it is so they remain challenging to use when first introduced but it shouldn't be so bad that they become useless later without stat boosters.
Yeah... I don't know what Reddit was smoking in that thread. On the game's release, I did a no-DLC, no-Well, no-Stat-Booster Maddening run, and Anna was just a more straightforward character to use. Don't get me wrong - I love Citrinne and RNG-abused 30-45 minutes for the Dire Thunder ring. And even then, she started missing kills in chapters 21 and onward by a point or two. Mage Knight Anna was just overall easier to use, whereas (Sage) Citrinne has a hyper-specific niche.
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As you said, in Reddit the majority wins. Thus, the moment something reaches a negative number, more often than not it's staying negative, and the "other side" is going up. Sometimes the one in the negatives is you, others it's them. Even if you're saying the same thing. Who is the one in the negatives? Well, unless the first one says a completely bonkers thing (like idk... Mage Louis), the second one in the argument.
It's way better if you don't care about what the echo chamber says and write your thoughts. But also know to cut your losses (or victories) if they're not going anywhere. Once had a thread of over 15 comments which had been resolved and proven in the 3rd comment or so.
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@@shadoweclipse8357 Don't you have anything better to do? Nothing to add?
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Anyone who builds Speed on Citrinne is just.. over thinking things. She hits very hard with Thoron, doesn't need any investment at all. She's even good with vantage. The fastest enemy units are often not double-able even by Chloe. U should always have a Thoron-sage on your team for taking out Wolf Knights and other fast units, meaning u just use both Citrinne and Anna in different classes. (they are for different niches)
Reddit is proof positive of why a democracy sucks. It's just mob rule at the end of the day even if the mob is mathematically illiterate. I commend you for kicking the bee hive but try not to take anything from there personally. It's such a dumpster fire. Your content got me through Maddening for the first time ever (using Anna and Timera). Also your triangle strategy stuff was golden. Can't wait for them to make a TS2.
Your Math always Maths ICG.
I've been playing FE since it's release in America, and I have never considered LTC as anything other than a challenge run. In my eyes, that framework of valuing units shouldn't even be considered legitimate by any means and here is why:
If you like a game, you want to play it right? Probably a lot? Or at least for long periods of time, because it's fun! But when you are playing a single player game and in a way that significantly reduces the turn count you spend on any given chapter and in the same way real life time, objectively that would be seen as avoiding engagement with the game. If you like it, why would you want to avoid engaging with it? Wouldn't that mean that you don't like it considering you're actively attempting to spend the minimal possible amount of time completing the chapter and engaging with the story?
I know this is just my opinion, but the fact of the matter is the largest representation of this community of players who supposedly love this game actively value things in units that reduce your engagement in the game because they are "more efficient" but literally and in practice reduce the amount of time spent even playing the damn game. But in reality most people actually play at a much slower pace and enjoy their single player game at a slower pace. And I also completely agree that LTC is easier than creative building and playing the chapters for what they are with the tools you have in a meaningful and I guess you could say "honest" way.
You put me onto Timerra and I discovered Anna on some obscure post a week after the game came out, and I use them very frequently because the startup cost is honestly insignificant across multiple playthroughs on Maddening in both fixed and random growths and their performance just outweighs every other unit in the game bar Chloe more consistently and with less effort. Framme too, my jaw dropped the first time I sent a Bonded Ball into the middle of Chapter 24 deploying only 5 units(all of which I just mentioned plus Alear) and watched them enemy phase every single enemy without taking damage outside of chain attacks and 1 round them in return. The entire map swarms you as you know and they had no issue moving at Framme' pace right up to the boss. Absolutely bonkers but people put 3 out of those 5 units on the bottom of tier lists. Fucking nuts.
I don’t think reddit fe understands the concepts of opportunity cost
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I think the only anna refusal is does she earn exp farming more than anyone else. If you ask me, she doesn't. All of the times you farm anna exp, someone else could be using it better in the short term, which is ultimately more important.
I don't agree with that. By the time I get Anna, my Chloe and Alear are usually so ridiculously powerleveled, they barely get any EXP from combat until like 2 maps later. Framme and Jean freely farm EXP with support turns, and none of the other units up until then are anything worth my investment. So who is missing out by me feeding Anna?
Who wants Micaiah that can pop off better than Anna long term early and is a better investment?
Chloe/Alear are on combat emblems killing things.
Alfred, Louis, Jean, Clanne all either have worse growths/stats or are lower level and require more feeding prior to getting Anna.
Framme levels herself to 10 by healing/chain guarding by CH7-8 reliably without Micaiah.
Yunaka is not known to be a hard carry, you could argue her but she isn't as good as Chloe/Alear typically.
If we look at the Brodians, Citrinne doesn't want Micaiah because she wants kills/combat and can staff utility if you master seal her right away, she would get reduced XP from great saccing.
Lapis wants combat XP/put on something like Wyvern.
Alcryst can kill flyers/wants combat xp.
Boucheron can level from combat if you want to use him and is really the only unit you could argue wants Micaiah.
There aren't better options which is why you didn't mention who specifically gets it.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming That's the thing. Anyone is easier to deploy than anna at that point. Anna is just a liability at base, that's the real issue.
She has no innate staff access, dog water bases, and needs some kind of support like miccy to actually do anything. Jean has innate staff access, so he can do things w/o miccy to eventually catchup. All of the other units you listed have actual bases or niches for their join time so they don't have to spam miccy the entire map to help.
Like, Alfred is pretty mid for his entire existance. But he's basically free for like 7-8 maps, so why not use him. When units have to start "earning" a deployment slot, they should inherently contribute something on that map if you ask me.
When Anna joins, she's already a worse boucheron effectively, and he's already probably not sticking around much longer if at all. I struggle to see any real, unbiased reason to deploy her.
And for the "lower exp gain" thing, I don't really care what your level 10/20 stats are. Like, it'll eventually matter, sure. But your bases and how much you can do with them matter a lot more imo as to how good a unit is.
@@knivy6160 "Like, Alfred is pretty mid for his entire existance. But he's basically free for like 7-8 maps, so why not use him." because he syphons EXP away from units that actually scale well into endgame, like, say, Anna for example.
"All of the other units you listed have actual bases or niches for their join time" you dont pick units to dump exp into based on what they will be useful for in the next 10 minutes, you do it based on the last 10 maps. The actual challenging part of the game that you need to plan for.
You're directly making a point against yourself when you say that every other unit is useful even without Micajah, because the obvious conclusion that'd lead to is that Anna is one of the best units to put her on, since no one else needs her to perform, she doesn't have any other use-cases at that time, and she actually scales well later on if you do use Micajah on her. You just choose to ignore that last point for some reason, yet call others biased if they don't evaluate units purely on their join-condition.
Earlygame is so piss-easy that using bad units that don't scale into endgame and letting them steal EXP, just to get by, is so obviously suboptimal, compared to using that time to raise the few units you get that actually do something with that investment a few maps later.
@@PetraMacneary "this is the same boat Anna is in as well" no its not, Anna is lacking in EXP, Bunet is lacking in a good passive, good growths, and a good recruitment time. You don't even have Micajah when you get Bunet, and wont for a long while, the comparison makes zero sense.
"Every unit in the game can easily be endgame viable with enough support so why is Anna worth more than someone like Alfred?" Because Anna has better growths and a better passive. You need objectively less investment/support for Anna than for Alfred.
"Anna isn't worth the heavy investment she requires since after digging her out of her hole she performs as a mediocre unit that other units can do the same or better then." Again, plain wrong, Anna reaches some of the best statlines in the game, and Heal Exp isnt heavy investment in any way, especially WITH Anna, who creates money out of thin air.
"you have to do so much just to get her going then feed her skills and boosters to keep her going" again, wrong, I never feed Anna any boosters, she doesn't need them to be a hardcarry. On the other hand, yes she wants skills, but so does every unit, so why even bring it up. Did you actually ever use her as a magic damage dealer? Because I don't think you're actually talking from experience.
Honestly your original video wasn’t even being that mean about it! I do like Citrinne as a low investment staff bot with Corrin and Thoron, like that’s kinda all she needs to stick around for me. But the way people act like it’s so difficult to get Anna going… is it annoying? 1000%, but she’s a trainee growth unit, that’s kinda the point or both her and Jean
Speaking of Jean, you can use his paralogue to level Anna up a bit, then finish leveling her to 10 in CH7. Yes the Micaiah heal set ups are kinda annoying sometimes, but so is getting a bad level up! These things happen
I just think it’s silly. Hell, Anna usually hasn’t even been that amazing for me. I don’t like her as a Sage, and when she’s not killing fliers with Radiant Bow she’s mostly just doing chip to enemies (in my experience). But I feel like people overstate the case against Anna.
I do like using both, Citrinne as a Thoron poking staff bot (support units just help your combat units snowball) and Anna as a whatever tf you want, I like trying to increase her Luck as much as I can (which is why that redditor said to use Leif I think? The Build is nice but Light Brand is a magic sword with +10 Luck, very cool for her)
That light brand combo sounds pretty good, especially since Leif is really hard to make good.
Citrinne does over 50% hp with thoron even in the end game to every unit in the game, even if she does not get the kill, she sets up kills for someone else to finish off the target safely and not take damage.
If you need to take 2 actions to kill a target, then you take 2 actions, if you thoron with citrinne first then finish off with another unit - you took no damage - coffee would double the enemy, take damage, then need to get healed after which is still 2 actions for 1 kill. Better to go with a great thoron poker so you don't need to use stave charges and be more efficient this way.
Citrinne has always been my lowest investment unit in the game, she uses 2-3k SP for Momentum and Canter/Canter+ and holds Corrin ring usually.
Anna better as a sniper with claude's ring, you get bolganone, excalibur, and thoron with a single item and occasional long bow for chip damage; and 10% crit for being a sniper and a ton of dex to always have 100% hit vs griffin knights.
Not every unit needs speed to be good, you massively over value speed.
I can make Louis one shot everyone in the entire game (except very high hp and def generals in the end game), he does end up getting a lot of exp because of Sigurd ultimate getting multi-kills (this is after you get Sigurd back). Louis is S tier, immediately strong, he mostly uses spear and silver greatlance - eventually you can swap them out for S rank spear, S rank smash lance, and add on brave lance since doubling with a high strength user is usually stronger than quading on a speedster (granted quading with Eirika ring and Flashing Fist usually ends up being the best, but Eirika does give an insane amount of might).
Or, use engravings and supports to not get hit, and also enemy phase? That’s probably the most efficient.
@@Sarmachus Wolf Knight Lapis, Micaiah engrave her silver dagger, she becomes the best avoid tank in the game and really supported by her insane amount of supports that she gets!
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Sorry, the rule is, early game units will always be worse then later units, and at best equal to. Thats what i am told.'
Using Starsphere and micaiah is cheating and doesnt count.
Also, going out of your way to train a units is also cheating, because a unit can NEVER outpace levels on a later game units with use of macaiah, marth or lineage from edelgard dlc.
Sorry Coffee! Also, using second seals and master seals is only okay when i need to use them, but not when you use them.
I don't get why people act like this like. Just say you like Citrine over Anna. There is nothing wrong with using a character over the better one just becuase you like them.
Citrinee is my favorite character so i will sacrifice everything for her and im not playing on maddening so the enemies have less stat and i may have grinded bond fragments to get spd +5 and always give her spd tonic but i love her she is my waifu so every mage ended up around 31 or 33 and no i dont hate anna i use her every time because she makes money and i like her
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you wanna whose a better citrinne...... Zelestia.
More evidence why Reddit is a pool of toxicity
I asked it on the last video, got noticed, but didn't get a reply. What is great sacking?
Nevermind, I figured it out 7:30
i don't even like using anna ( she really good) but i rather using her over Citrinne. Personally early game i live without a mage. I hold off for the goat Pandreo and use the okayish ivy when she comes. Main reason is so i can dump experience into Alear and Alcryst ( just a favorite of mine) with units like Chloe and Framme taking levels also.
ivy is a lot better than okay
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"okayish ivy"
bro what are you smoking 😭
@@fuzzinator9523 How do you build a good Ivy? Genuine question
@@cyanclyde8456 healer with thoron and canter or just give her lyn. you seriously can't think of anyway ivy can be good?
I started following FE channels since engage. Has the Reddit community always been so terrible in terms of attitude ?
Plus they can’t do math and don’t even seem to test their stuff outside of their biased lens…
Legit if you play normally between a semi-fast and a semi-slow pace everything Coffee says is true…
And every video caveats with « if you like the character play it it’s fine, it’s just not the best »
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Citrinne is a practically no investment thoron-stave utility unit, Anna requires quite a lot of investment to get going and to pop off, so they are very different types of units.
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Yea but Anna is actually good
No investment promoted Citrinne ges killed by everything and has accuracy problems. At least Ivy has bulk and movement
Investing into anna is like investing into your future. Citrinne is going to work straight after school and Anna is in free university for 1 map
@@KenseiShiro they are just completely different units
It's your :)
Your :) will bring the salt
Also you never know who is a literal child on the Internet. And I had some pretty bad Amelia related takes on the internet and wasted a lot of other people's time when I was a kid
To be fair. I’d down vote you as well. You’re missing the most important point. Whose voice would I rather hear. Citrinne > Anna
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Knowing reddit, they only defend Citrinne over Pand, Anna, and other mages because they think she's hot. Unless it's Ivy, they prefer Citrinne.
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Nah it's probably because it's brain dead easy to get citrinnne online, as long as they get the dire thunder ring there's not a lot of adjustments they need to make.
@@Andigames235Citrinne being attractive is still definitely a factor.
@@Andigames235Yeah but other units can do that better than she can.
I agree that redditors are probably only thinking with their schlongs.
@@LanceRedCock yeah but being that she's the one who has thunder in her inventory before ivy arrives and reddit has a boner for not investing in Anna, she's probably the unit they'll argue for lol.
God, I despise reddit. I only lasted an hour before I had to delete my account. I wanted to post a review about Engage and why I think the game is disappointing and bad. In response, I had people telling me to self delete myself and well, that was the end of that. When Iced Coffee mentions the reddit mob that wants you dead, he's telling the truth. It's hard to find people who can talk and have opinions about a dumb video game in a respectful way. I feel like I'm getting yelled at by five year olds all the time that have only played one fire emblem game (Engage) that is flawless in every way and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong....ugghhhh....
Choosing violence on new years eve I see. I lack your experience by a long shot, but for the past year the 'speed is easy to manage' talk has been dominant with Lyn's kit being so notorious.
Honestly contested unit meta discussion on the main sub looks way spicier then Edelgard discourse(it was bad in it's first year but the vast majority can be more mellow and detached). You got more of these in the pipeline? I think the classic forum era was a bit better for those really back and forths. reddit can be interesting still even if it's only viewed a day or two or so.
I plan to replay the game at some point, but I got those DLC emblem maps now which really favor Anna too since those extend early/midgame a lot because there's just do many to clear.
Even with the emblem system being deep, Engage's progression is a bit odd with the Solm deploy squeeze and good new unit rush, at least with perception of the game. Compare FE6 Miledy/Percivial being notorious free midgame combat gods, but this is even sillier for the how the collective view ended up.
Pandreo has the lowest DEF in the game.
Celine has alright DEF, similar magic to Pandreo, and she is way faster and can have Ignis procs to do more damage than Pandreo.
Also, Framme Sage is just better than Pandreo.
If the only weapon Citrinne uses is Thoron, then she only needs is magic, and is really strong the entire game since she being good the whole time and not taking away a bunch of exp from your carries.
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you realize pandreo and celine have the same spd and defense growths before class growths are added right ?
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Ahah we gave you content
I had a hunch it may be you when you shared the meme in a community post
Reddit may be a bit mean when it comes to arguments and debates we had 100 times already, but it's not an alien hive mind either. If everyone there thinks you're wrong... It's not reddit bro
Everyone used to agree the earth was flat too.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming I addressed all of your arguments in the thread so it's not like I'm the one with the conspiracy theory here.
As others comments said, Citrinne's speed doesn't matter, she's mainly a Thoron nuke that doesn't want or need to double. Well if you really want Citrinne to double you can use Dire Thunder or Echo + dual assist bots but that's not the point. Anna does want to double because she has lower magic than Citrinne for most of the game, but her speed is just a little bit too low. You can patch it with favoritism but imo it's not worth the trouble, Clanne and Céline are better options for your speedy earlygame mage
Also I like how when you compare Anna and Ivy's speed, it's fine, but when I point out that Anna is slower than Boucheron for most of the game, you say it's a bullshit argument. 1500 hours played and you still don't know your speed benchmarks ? Don't accuse others of a lack of game knowledge after that.
Citrinne is good because of her low investment, low exp requirement, very high utility, and low resources.
Thoron+1 Sage Citrinne best unit, minus the fact that she gets no supports; Lapis gets an insane amount of supports.
Anna is still high investment, high exp requirement, no utility because you want her to get kills to make gold, and low resources with if you are going radiant bow and long bow Anna.
Even if you want Anna to get kills for gold value it can still be worth using staves. Notably using fortify gets you a full engage back which can net you more kills then the one you lost from using a staff especially on enemy phase. You can just have a qi adept bonded shield unit support her and get those gold kills on enemy phase. Her frailty makes her a attractive target. Btw high priest underrated it’s higher engage uptime can be worth it on anyone not named pandreo ( who can use fortify in sage) especially with Celica and Erika ( Celica because she makes up for the lower tome rank with you never not wanting to use seraphim anyway and Erika because she buffs the whole team if you’ve been inheriting gentility and lunar brace
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And these people call Lapis unplayable for having a 3 str deficit on Kagetsu lol
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why do you keep mouse reacting everyone
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amber lance is cool
More evidence the Fire Emblem Reddit sucks lol
In fairness to the citrinne stans. The framme(lucina) anna (any emblem) combo can be achieved with the seadoll and citrinne. But seadoll has support with pandreo...
Nvm citrinne still mage etie. Even clanne is better than citrinne and i stand by that
To the
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