I have a camper from the 90s, and the inner just went out after 30 years. On our homestead, we use high-frequency inverters, and they only last a couple of years. One of my viewers asked why I kept buying high-frequency inverters, and I told them that I didn't know anything about high vs. low, so here I am learning. Now I'm rethinking my last very large purchase😢
Here's a good analogy: Think of a low freq inverter as a heavy, cast iron block, low RPM diesel with a big heavy fly wheel and a large capacity cooling system. Think of a Chinese high freq inverter as a small, all aluminum, high RPM, air-cooled, 2 cycle engine, with a tiny flywheel. Which one do you think will last longer? Which one will be able to handle the big startup current surges for your A/C unit, or your 5HP well pump?
@@kickgas7171 Now add into the mix the brainpower of the us consumer ( yes he is the monkey at fault ) It's funny how the chinese products for the third world are very reliable ( and very undesirable for the western world , think 70cc bikes ) . There is worse to come , see john deere and apple in the light of repairability
And Victron is not the only one, but you are correct, you will pay more for transformer based units. Something most don't take into account is idol consumption, Victron is great at that also. I have a 3000w mobile solar generator, low frequency unit, and it idols at 13w. And 15kw in batteries. I try to tell people those Chinese units are junk!
@@dustydawson8977 they are the only one that is known for the reliability and has a dealer network willing to support you even if you haven’t purchased from them for DIY it’s really the only brand you can trust for it
i agree. low frequency inverters ar superior and last a long time ompared to high frequency ones. i have both but i mainly use my low frequency inverter 10kw. best part is, parts cn be replaced easily as opposed to high frequency. this video ticks all the boxes.
I have a friend here in the Dominican Republic who makes inverters/Chargers. I have one that's 5KW/48V and I power pretty much everything in my house. Surge is about 8.5KW.
How do we tell if an inverter is low or high frequency when looing to buy one? Is it listed somewhere that is reliable? Just because a vendor says their inverter is low frequency does not mean it really is.
One way you can easily tell is by the weight. A typical 5 Kw all in one high frequency inverter charger will weigh 52.9 lbs. While a 5kW all in one low frequency inverter charger will weigh 99 lbs. Another way you can tell is by the surge capacity. A high frequency inverter will offer a maximum of a 200% surge capacity while a low frequency inverter will off at least a 300% surge capacity.
Totally agreed only technical people can understand this. I am using APC smart UPS 3000 (2700 watts) with 80Amp mppt charge controller. Any Chinese inverter have features like APC like AVR auto shutdown group outlets? Remember whenever these inverter going to die because of short circuit most probably entire home appliances will be damage.
Why spend all that extra money for a 10kW high frequency inverter that cannot start 10kW inductive loads when you can spend less money on a 5kW low frequency inverter that will start the 5kW inductive loads that you want to limit yourself to?
You are still kind of rolling the dice. Yeah, it might work. You have to look at the specs regarding peak current versus hold-up time. There should be 3 or 4 values given. X amps for 10ms, Y amps for 100ms, Z amps for 1 second, etc. That sort of thing. Not every heavy inductive load is the same. And here's the other part: Who's specs are you gonna believe? Chinese physics typically is not the same as American, German, or Japanese physics. Translation: They lie about their specs all the time.
Over exaggerated it all depends what you are going to use the inverter to do what job and what is the purpose. Yes I would definitely recommend Victor on the circuitry on the low frequency inverter is very well designed but they are not cheap everybody has a budget. There is nothing wrong with high frequency inverters if they are designed correctly. High frequency versus tend to be a lot more efficient lower power consumption without load rather than a low frequency inverter. But then again it all depends what is the purpose of the inverter if you're going to run a full house then yes I would recommend low frequency but at the same time if your calculations are correct you could have two high frequencies synchronized together which will work very well.
There's plenty wrong with high frequency inverters. They don't last as long, they've got a crappy surge capacity. And because they don't have an isolation transformer, when they fail, they can take out your appliances in a heartbeat. Why do you thing they're so cheap? They're basically a poor man's inverter. And you don't have to buy an expensive Victron inverter anymore if you want a high performance, low frequency inverter, There are plenty of Chinese made low frequency inverters available that sell for nearly the same price as these junk high frequency inverters. The only people that are promoting these cheap inverters are youtube salesmen that earn a commission when you click on their affiliate links.
This video is not over-exaggerated in any way shap or form. The problem with all of the Chinese built high frequency inverters is that they lack any galvanic isolation which make them all a potentially dangerous product that can set your appliances and home on fire.
What inverter would you recommend? solark (is the most expensive), victron (need 2 for split phase) or growatt (SPF DVM series)? In canada growatt look interesting, it is a low frequency inverter split phase and not that expensive. thx!
Always go Victron in my opinion as you can expand it very easily that ecosystem is good if you wish to go into it for electronic equipment I would highly recommend getting a 244 model with a transformer to get your split phase because split face is very unusual arrangement in the world if you could avoid choosing to avoid loads, you could just simply use 120
Your thoughts on Victron Multiplus II? Would you consider them “repairable”? Chinese mfg but designed in Netherlands, some vendors offer 10 yr warranty.
I use a HF one as a backup, the main one I use is a chinese one with a 15kg toroidal transformer, which I only replaced my previous one because snow condensation blew the mosfets, learned from that🤨
It's not just one inverter. Most top name brand US inverter manufacturers only build low frequency transformer based inverter. Brands like Schneider Electric, Outback Power, Sigineer Power (a Chinese brand), Magnum Energy, Victron Energy, just to name a few.
The only problem I have with LF inverters is I have yet to fine some that can stack. I can stack my growatt inverters. They are off grid. At some point I will replace them. Currently looking at EG for that. But there are a couple of Us mfgs too. We shall see what is available for a 48v system by then. In the mean time, I still trying to figure out a way to integrate my 24v wind turbines from the old system with out a $2K charge controller and changing the heads for $1400...
Many low frequency, transformer based inverters are stackable including Schneider Electric, Outback Power, Magnum Energy, Victron Energy and Sigineer Energy which is the lowest price, high quality low frequency inverter on the market. I have three Sigineer 6kW MS6048Ds powering one of my off grid properties right now.
@@kickgas7171 Well.. Good thing I got this list of potential vendors... My Growatts have all died.. I've reached out to USA Support a couple of days ago to see about getting replacement mainboards. 3 are getting a 08 error code, and the other was 04. All dead. I really need the LF due to the inductive loads - Freezers, Mini-Splits, and a Main A/C (eventually).
Victron are very very expandable. I work with frequently. The programmable capabilities are so good. I haven’t even scratched the surface and I’ve been doing it day and day out for a year or more.
Low frequency inverters are not very efficient in standby,,and when you get one you have to add an mppt controller switches ect and they are 3 times the price .the answer is get 2 or 3 high frequency inverters in parallel and don't work them to hard. And they are more efficient in idle mode
Sigineer is one brand. Their 1500 Watt low frequency inverter is available in both 12 volt or 24 Volt versions. They have built in chargers and a transfer switch for fast UPS function and they offer a high 4,500 Watt peak power capacity.
@@quickquote1568 actually the Chinese manufacturers are information the quality they are paid to make you get a high-quality Chinese. It cost a little bit more most of the quality brand are made in China but the manufacturers are paid to use different parts and use different design. it’s not because they’re made in China. The issue is is being implied because they are Chinese. They are bad. That is not the case. It’s because the company is called China trying to do it cheap that it’s bad.
I have a camper from the 90s, and the inner just went out after 30 years. On our homestead, we use high-frequency inverters, and they only last a couple of years.
One of my viewers asked why I kept buying high-frequency inverters, and I told them that I didn't know anything about high vs. low, so here I am learning.
Now I'm rethinking my last very large purchase😢
Here's a good analogy:
Think of a low freq inverter as a heavy, cast iron block, low RPM diesel with a big heavy fly wheel and a large capacity cooling system.
Think of a Chinese high freq inverter as a small, all aluminum, high RPM, air-cooled, 2 cycle engine, with a tiny flywheel.
Which one do you think will last longer? Which one will be able to handle the big startup current surges for your A/C unit, or your 5HP well pump?
Awesome analogy! You hit it right on the nail head!
@@kickgas7171 Now add into the mix the brainpower of the us consumer ( yes he is the monkey at fault ) It's funny how the chinese products for the third world are very reliable ( and very undesirable for the western world , think 70cc bikes ) . There is worse to come , see john deere and apple in the light of repairability
I have a Chinese Meanwell 3000w HF inverter running 7/24 since May 2011.
Running what? Resistive loads?
@@Madsci-zy8wm fridge, submersible pump,TV, CCTV and lights
Weanwell company not from chinese, these made in taiwan., power supply specialist ❤ i like it tho
@@evrenforest2578 What is your solar array and batteries rated at?
6*250w PV array with 48v200 amp gel batteries
There's a reason I paid "extra" for the Victron.👍
And Victron is not the only one, but you are correct, you will pay more for transformer based units. Something most don't take into account is idol consumption, Victron is great at that also. I have a 3000w mobile solar generator, low frequency unit, and it idols at 13w. And 15kw in batteries. I try to tell people those Chinese units are junk!
@@dustydawson8977 they are the only one that is known for the reliability and has a dealer network willing to support you even if you haven’t purchased from them for DIY it’s really the only brand you can trust for it
i agree. low frequency inverters ar superior and last a long time ompared to high frequency ones. i have both but i mainly use my low frequency inverter 10kw. best part is, parts cn be replaced easily as opposed to high frequency. this video ticks all the boxes.
Thank you.
Great advice, keep up the good work...
Thank you!
I have a friend here in the Dominican Republic who makes inverters/Chargers. I have one that's 5KW/48V and I power pretty much everything in my house. Surge is about 8.5KW.
How do we tell if an inverter is low or high frequency when looing to buy one? Is it listed somewhere that is reliable? Just because a vendor says their inverter is low frequency does not mean it really is.
One way you can easily tell is by the weight. A typical 5 Kw all in one high frequency inverter charger will weigh 52.9 lbs. While a 5kW all in one low frequency inverter charger will weigh 99 lbs. Another way you can tell is by the surge capacity. A high frequency inverter will offer a maximum of a 200% surge capacity while a low frequency inverter will off at least a 300% surge capacity.
@@kickgas7171 Hahahaha. Yeah I was going to say, if you can pick it up with one hand, it's not low frequency. :)
If it doesn’t say it’s probably a poor design
Totally agreed only technical people can understand this.
I am using APC smart UPS 3000 (2700 watts) with 80Amp mppt charge controller.
Any Chinese inverter have features like APC like AVR auto shutdown group outlets?
Remember whenever these inverter going to die because of short circuit most probably entire home appliances will be damage.
Yes, high frequency, transformerless inverters can damage your AC appliances.
How about we buy let say 10kw high frequency Inverter, but only use max 5kw load ? So even powering peak it wont break ????
Why spend all that extra money for a 10kW high frequency inverter that cannot start 10kW inductive loads when you can spend less money on a 5kW low frequency inverter that will start the 5kW inductive loads that you want to limit yourself to?
Buy 3 times the size you need for running hf inverter on fridge or freezer or pumps
You are still kind of rolling the dice. Yeah, it might work. You have to look at the specs regarding peak current versus hold-up time. There should be 3 or 4 values given. X amps for 10ms, Y amps for 100ms, Z amps for 1 second, etc. That sort of thing. Not every heavy inductive load is the same. And here's the other part: Who's specs are you gonna believe? Chinese physics typically is not the same as American, German, or Japanese physics. Translation: They lie about their specs all the time.
Over exaggerated it all depends what you are going to use the inverter to do what job and what is the purpose. Yes I would definitely recommend Victor on the circuitry on the low frequency inverter is very well designed but they are not cheap everybody has a budget. There is nothing wrong with high frequency inverters if they are designed correctly. High frequency versus tend to be a lot more efficient lower power consumption without load rather than a low frequency inverter. But then again it all depends what is the purpose of the inverter if you're going to run a full house then yes I would recommend low frequency but at the same time if your calculations are correct you could have two high frequencies synchronized together which will work very well.
There's plenty wrong with high frequency inverters. They don't last as long, they've got a crappy surge capacity. And because they don't have an isolation transformer, when they fail, they can take out your appliances in a heartbeat. Why do you thing they're so cheap? They're basically a poor man's inverter. And you don't have to buy an expensive Victron inverter anymore if you want a high performance, low frequency inverter, There are plenty of Chinese made low frequency inverters available that sell for nearly the same price as these junk high frequency inverters. The only people that are promoting these cheap inverters are youtube salesmen that earn a commission when you click on their affiliate links.
This video is not over-exaggerated in any way shap or form. The problem with all of the Chinese built high frequency inverters is that they lack any galvanic isolation which make them all a potentially dangerous product that can set your appliances and home on fire.
Man, those high end Sigineer Power inverters are monsters! Surge Rating: 60,000 Watts (20 Seconds)? Weight: 220lbs?? WTF???? Wish I had a couple.
Hello, worth a mention that at 1 min 14s you're talking about a hf inverter while displaying a low frequency inverter board. Just an FYI.
Do you have inverter that 120 volt AC as input?
Sigineer Power makes 120 VAC Input/120 VAC output 60Hz. Inverter chargers with AC transfer switch from 1.5kW to 4kW that are reasonably priced.
What inverter would you recommend? solark (is the most expensive), victron (need 2 for split phase) or growatt (SPF DVM series)? In canada growatt look interesting, it is a low frequency inverter split phase and not that expensive. thx!
Always go Victron in my opinion as you can expand it very easily that ecosystem is good if you wish to go into it for electronic equipment I would highly recommend getting a 244 model with a transformer to get your split phase because split face is very unusual arrangement in the world if you could avoid choosing to avoid loads, you could just simply use 120
Your thoughts on Victron Multiplus II? Would you consider them “repairable”? Chinese mfg but designed in Netherlands, some vendors offer 10 yr warranty.
I use a HF one as a backup, the main one I use is a chinese one with a 15kg toroidal transformer, which I only replaced my previous one because snow condensation blew the mosfets, learned from that🤨
where is the link to this great inverter?
It's not just one inverter. Most top name brand US inverter manufacturers only build low frequency transformer based inverter. Brands like Schneider Electric, Outback Power, Sigineer Power (a Chinese brand), Magnum Energy, Victron Energy, just to name a few.
Buy from a country that doesn't sponsor genocide
@@kickgas7171 there are currently none that are made in the US in any very large scale
Just install an Inrush Current Limiter (ICL) in the AC load circuit!!
However, in most cases you are not allowed to according to the regulations but in the circuit he has to be part of the appliance
The only problem I have with LF inverters is I have yet to fine some that can stack. I can stack my growatt inverters. They are off grid. At some point I will replace them. Currently looking at EG for that. But there are a couple of Us mfgs too. We shall see what is available for a 48v system by then. In the mean time, I still trying to figure out a way to integrate my 24v wind turbines from the old system with out a $2K charge controller and changing the heads for $1400...
Many low frequency, transformer based inverters are stackable including Schneider Electric, Outback Power, Magnum Energy, Victron Energy and Sigineer Energy which is the lowest price, high quality low frequency inverter on the market. I have three Sigineer 6kW MS6048Ds powering one of my off grid properties right now.
@@kickgas7171 Well.. Good thing I got this list of potential vendors... My Growatts have all died.. I've reached out to USA Support a couple of days ago to see about getting replacement mainboards. 3 are getting a 08 error code, and the other was 04. All dead. I really need the LF due to the inductive loads - Freezers, Mini-Splits, and a Main A/C (eventually).
Victron are very very expandable. I work with frequently. The programmable capabilities are so good. I haven’t even scratched the surface and I’ve been doing it day and day out for a year or more.
This is the reason I never recommend HF inverters for my clients.
toroidariffic!!!!
Low frequency inverters are not very efficient in standby,,and when you get one you have to add an mppt controller switches ect and they are 3 times the price .the answer is get 2 or 3 high frequency inverters in parallel and don't work them to hard. And they are more efficient in idle mode
They make an in one low frequency inverters
They actually are Victron ones are very, very efficient as you can program different power saving mode to detect loads
Who makes a Decent Low Frequency inverter say 1500 watt ?
Sigineer is one brand. Their 1500 Watt low frequency inverter is available in both 12 volt or 24 Volt versions. They have built in chargers and a transfer switch for fast UPS function and they offer a high 4,500 Watt peak power capacity.
@@kickgas7171 ok thanks I'll check them out someone was telling me about Victrons Phoenix line too.
I have there 6k now for a week. It’s nice but querkie.
@@2hotscottpro All inverters are quirky. Even big name brand, US made inverters are quirky.
Studer
but money
Low frequency inverters are now priced at levels that are very close to high frequency inverters. Only 10% to 20% more.
@@kickgas7171 show me some I can buy .
You’re looking for the best solution, but also don’t want to spend money they don’t go together unfortunately
While I agree with all you said, I only subscribed because of your Dad Joke Motto.
Much appreciated.
This is racist
Why? Most Chinese manufacturers are well known for producing poor-quality products. He's just stating facts.
@@quickquote1568 actually the Chinese manufacturers are information the quality they are paid to make you get a high-quality Chinese. It cost a little bit more most of the quality brand are made in China but the manufacturers are paid to use different parts and use different design. it’s not because they’re made in China. The issue is is being implied because they are Chinese. They are bad. That is not the case. It’s because the company is called China trying to do it cheap that it’s bad.