I just came across this channel tonight. The journey went from carbon fiber panels to this. I’d rate the channel a 10 for any one video alone. Also give it some exceptionally ambitious skill level super brain usage award. And how could one not totally appreciate how much information is being shared in these uploads? Inspirational! Thanks!
Pour from higher up in the same spot instead of moving around the part. The urethane will flow into the mold and not capture any air. Pouring a thinner stream also helps any air in the mix to release.
@@ThrottleStopGarage It was in one of the mold making videos, I've watched soo many at this point. Smooth on, BJBEnterprises, Brick In The Yard Mold Supply, freemanmfg Here's a smoothon squish mold process for a tail light: th-cam.com/video/Pu1RTkWHA3o/w-d-xo.html
Excellent craftsmanship! I wanted to share some thoughts on bushing theory if you're open to it! Bonded rubber bushings when functioning keep the inner metal centered to the outer can which is pressed into the arm. Bushings are typically much stiffer axially, so when an axial force is applied they resist the displacement by a greater magnitude than in the radial direction. In a lower control arm a brake force would cause an axial reaction at that bushing (along with a radial force in opposite directions between the front and rear bushing) and if there was no axial preload, let alone stiffness, that hysteresis would slightly affect your alignment and the arm kind of wiggles around. That preload is also needed radially for proper performance. If the bushing isn't pressed into the arm, it technically has no radial displacement, and since it's a spring, there is no reaction force. Which means any small force creates a displacement, or a change in the alignment. Oversize the bushing OD and undersize the ID so the bushing already has some squish statically. A certain force magnitude then has to be applied to create any displacement, maintaining more stable suspension geometry with the same bushing stiffness rate. A softer bushing under a lot of preload will be better for response and isolation than a stiffer bushing with more preload essentially. I'm not assuming you do or do not know this already as you seem to up to a dual rate bushing of some kind, but a few of your comments could be interpreted ambiguously by someone with less exposure to bushing design.
Thanks for helping me deepen my understanding. I'm just about to launch into fixing this mess. I've got my bushings done, and there is a new video coming on the start of my next effort.
Excellent video. I have too many hobbies, none of which will require me to make suspension bushings. But....this pushed me over the edge on a 3D printer. A new application that I hadn't thought about. And the process of doing the casting was also great. Many uses for a vacuum pot. And I'm sorry you have the problems buying from us in the States. 🙂
What happened? I watched this, went to comment, and it was gone! Now it's back. Well, all I wanted to say was how impressed I am with your ability to fabricate in a multitude of materials. Few people are as diverse. Keep up the great work, I love following your progress.
Colour got all messed up in the old TH-cam machine and I looked like I was orange! Sorry about that. Thanks! It was therapeutic to smack the molds on the bench.
Always inspiring.! You made a point when holding up the yellow bins that i would love to hear you expand on. You have obviously learned over time and projects the pitfalls of this type of work. Id honestly love to hear you just talk about your first project... Or any of the lessons learned along the way. A top 5 "dont do this" when doing a car project? . The manner in which you approach and execute is excellent.
Great idea Marc. I think some of this will make more sense as we get deeper into the project. My top tip is to organize everything because these bushings may not be on the car for over a year and you could lose them etc. I will for sure do a top tips sort of review.
I’m keen to see how long they last.... seriously for rare hard to get bushings... this is a win. Maybe try a few different densities... love R&D content. Thanks for making this video... inspirational 💯 %
A better way to pour is using a high pour in one spot. High pour meaning just pour from a higher distance in a thin stream, this allows bubbles to stretch and pop as it rolls off the edge of the cup. Also you want to pour in the lowest spot and in one spot, this allows the material flow naturally and push all the air up vs "filling the whole cavity and letting it settle and pouring again" This traps air underneath and causes more bubbles. Not saying its not possible to get good results but also will prevent a lot of time shaking and vibrating the mold. also a DA sander against the mold can be used as vibration to help evacuate bubbles. awesome job with the 3d printed molds!
Keen to see a follow-up to see how durable these turn out under use. I love the idea and If wonder to see if there's a difference in materials beyond shore hardness. Things that come to mind is tear and compression strength. I know you plan to put them through their paces and if they hold up, I'm even more convinced!
This is a pure science experiment. They may work and they may not. I could switch hardness pretty easily when done. These bushings will be three piece - poly/delrin/stainless steel. All I can do is test and see what happens.
@@ThrottleStopGarage In your comments about commercially available bushings you noted the lack of ability to hold grease... then you built bushings with no provision to hold grease. That and the large bore diameter make sense now, given your plan to use Delrin bearing sleeves inside the bushings (so the bushing won't slide on anything so no lubrication is needed), but it might have been good to explain that in the video.
@@brianb-p6586 The ID fo the bushing has the "as printed" surface which would effectively hold grease. The OD I don't want to rotate. I did miss this in the explanation - but not in the part.
@@ThrottleStopGarage I don't know why you would want the inside surface of the bushing to slide on the Delrin - if the polyurethane bushing and Delrin bearing are kept together by the roughness of the as-printed texture without grease, that seems preferable.
Liked for the doggo and for the Don Cherry reference at the end! I have my 3D printer that I have been experimenting making car parts with. Just finished a 1.5" carbon nylon filament lift kit for my subaru. Really havre been enjoying following this car process!!
Thanks for this one Craig. Just finished making 4 spring isolators for my 69 Datsun Roadster project that I couldn't find anywhere using the same process. Really enjoy the way you present the content. With what you are doing I still can't believe you don't have even a small lathe. I think you've made it a personal mission to see if you can do it without one.
Awesome channel dude. Really enjoying it. the bought bushings being too short between flanges Iv run into before. They were also fairly oversize on the OD. However, when pressed into the arm and the internal metal bush was pressed in they became the right length because they couldn’t expand on the OD. So those blue ones may fit (although no on the edge radius) once squeezed in. Just my 2pence worth anyhow. Cheers!
Interesting, I'd not thought about them compressing and adding length. That's good to know. Now that I'm this far along, I'm making a three part bushing with the "right" material doing their individual tasks. I'm a few months away from picking this part of the project back up. Testing won't really happen until I'm driving this car. Now that's when things get fun.
So I got the printer retuned for PLA to print the molds when I looked at my stocks of filament and realized I have a ton of TPU (bought out someone else's stock years ago). What are your thoughts of direct printing a body mount with TPU using infill to vary the pilability?
Great ep again love the learning and the attention to detail. FYI I’m Aussie and live in Australia so if you’re after any of the Superpro stuff give us a yell happy to help out if possible
Excellent video, I had the same issue with my super pro bushings not fitting on the same car. I also paid a lot for those. My issue was the back, now I'm worried about the front not fitting properly as well.
I thought about either a palm sander or my crap inline body sander. In the end, I rather enjoyed smacking that board against the bench. I recommend doing this after reading work email. Very therapeutic. LOL.
nice work, i use the PMC all the time from 70 upto 90A i find it better to warm the poly to 28c before mixing as it mixes better it degasses better, i then degas again after the poly is poured into the mounts, PMC has about a 15-20min pot life and course is 48 hours you dont need to heat as the poly fully harden over a few days, heating to 65C just speeds up the proses,
Just a suggestion, but I would have made the base plate for the mold a circle sized so it could fit in the vacuum chamber, then instead of all the aluminum hold downs, just another circular piece of plywood with holes for the mold fill holes. That would reduce your build time dramatically, reduce the setup time for each batch, and allow you to vacuum purge the poly inside the molds.
So you could possibly make bushings with a dual shore rating, casting a thin outer in a soft shore, and the an inner in a harder shore rating, getting both comfort and handling?
@@ThrottleStopGarage Oh! Sorry if I spoiled it? The big bore did make me wonder… I’ve been binging your videos since I found one of the first carbon fibre ones, your attention to detail is extraordinary! While we are waiting for the next episode on Binky (I got your hints😉) there seems to be quite some extraordinary builders in Canada, I’m following Japhands too, great work! I’m from Denmark, so used to seeing a lot of Amazons here, they were heavily customized in the ‘80’s I have one Volvo myself, but that’s a 1953 Sugga.
@@Equine_moon It's not really a surprise - so nothing spoiled! I'd love a Sugga. There are a few C303's in Canada, but I don't know anyone with a Sugga.
Hiya Craig, I'm always amazed at the amount of patience and focus you have in seeing this project thru! It's been a long time coming. I also caught the Matt reference, EV power for the future. I wanted to buy one of the t-shirts you where wearing today but the store only shows a couple of options, you better check it out.
Fascinating. How did you decide the bushing wall thickness? It appears you selected a wall substantially thinner than the commercial variants? Is this simply because your using much larger OD packings which decrease the poly unit loading and increase the eventual stiffness? Thanks for making us all think more 👍😎👍
I'm going to make a multipiece bushing. Poly is not great for rotation. I'm also thinking about small misalignment and other details. You'll see in a few episodes when the parts get made...struggling to get these parts made.
@@ThrottleStopGarage 😃 Looking forward to it 👍. I have no doubt you have a exceptional, well thought out plan. Sorry to jump the gun. I’ll Stand down and patiently wait for the next astonishing reveal.
In another comment he mentioned a Delrin component - that would be a bearing sleeve inside the polyurethane bushing, and the resulting need for a larger inside bore in the polyurethane.
The bushings that don’t move freely are supposed to not move freely they are tortional bushings that need to be tightened up with the suspension at ride height.
@@ThrottleStopGarage that would be awesome, I was planning on turning delrin for my Corvette but this design with only a delrin sleeve with a outer poly bushing will most probably get the best from both worlds 👍👍
@@Jockebanan99 I'm making a three part bushing. Poly/Delrin/Stainless. I'm waiting on the rest of the parts. My fitment is not stock due to packaging - but there is no reason that these won't be a good start point for a stock application. I'll post them later today.
Did you make the 3d prints in 2 parts so you can clamp them? Wouldn't it use less material if you flipped them and had the wider part at the top of the mould, it would all be one piece you could just pour into, there is also an option you can do with your printer to smooth out the flat top edges with the hot end to give you that nice smooth finish. Nice job though, i'm looking to do this myself soon but i'm not too sure on which poly mix to get.
They are two part molds - there was virtually zero wasted material when I made these. I like the texture that the printer leaves - it's somewhere for lubrication to sit in the finished part.
Beautiful. Sometimes if you pour slowly, at a single location, and let the liquid slowly flow down to and across the bottom of the mold and sort of fill the mold from the bottom up, you get a lot fewer bubbles. If you pour too quickly and cover the top opening, the air is trapped and tapping won't always force the bubbles to the surface. Also, letting the part set and cure under pressure (in a pressure pot) will collapse any trapped air so it doesn't form a void. You going to be selling rides in that majestic Volvo when you're done?
I didn't master the super slow pour. Could have converted the vacuum chamber to also be a pressure pot. It was more work, but bubbles were not a problem. When it's done...looking forward to doing a little tour.
Wonder if hitting the side of the fixture plate with either a DA sander or oscillating multitool would make getting the air out faster and easier... or just cause it to splash all off the place.
Great video I ran it at 1.5 speed. Couple of comments for all. When vacuuming chemicals to remove bubbles it is possible to remove essential solvents in the mix with too much vacuum. Better to do several short lower drawn downs to avoid this. I could tell by the frothing that this was happening. Also mechanical vibration is superior to whacking the bench but not as therapeutic lol. Another point ,I also wondered why the bushings were thinner than the aftermarket ones until you commented that you were putting delrin inserts in them. This must have made the overall bushing much stiffer since the poly portion being thinner won't absorb as much shock. Did you notice this in the vehicle? Thanks again for a great video.
Nice job on the bushings, the biggest challenge as I see it is not having CAD software or knowledge & no ability to 3D print. Otherwise I would love to fabricate urethane bushings for my old cars or C4 Vette! Suggestions?
I use Fusion 360 - it's pretty intuitive. It's also free. If you were intent on doing this, there are lots of 3D options from online to local clubs/maker spaces that can help you out. Bushings for your application are available...just not for the early C4's
Two questions; 1) If the blue purchased bushing was nominally the right dimensions other than between the flanges, did you consider either turning them back (thining them) or turning one end of them off and only needing to make end cap washers? 2) If you felt the blue bushings were otherwise adequate, why didn't you start with measuring them? (They would have already included the anticipated compression in the material and such.) Have you seen Robert Tolone's channel on making molds/castings? (Vacuum versus pressure, etc.) I once tried to convert a hydro-pneumatic (?) engine mount to a solid urethane mount, that was a real bear. Got it made, (utilizing Devcon) but there were other issues with the engine.
I could have split the bushing - but I'd never trust it. I have also changed the design. This is going to be part of a multi piece bushing. Will it work? Who knows, but we're going to try.
@@ThrottleStopGarage I also thought if you were to split two bushings to make 1 in some combination. (Essentually two flanged bushings meeting in the middle, like the Vette bushings.) It's always a bit of a balance between the knowns and the unknowns, costs in money and (in this case mostly) time. Guess I would have gone to make a workable version out of the blues (since you otherwise seemed to have liked them) and moved on to the next issue. Of which you have plenty more I'm sure. As you know, always several was to approach a problem. On many of my machines I get trapped in to making washers of all things; particularly for smaller screws for better distribution of the load. SAEs are so sloppy for 1/4s and smaller! Why someone doesn't make body fit -0/+.005" washers I don't know, I would certainly buy them when I needed better than a finished/jig washer. So I have them made at a very high cost/unit.
You could use PLA or PETG (probably more the latter than the former) - but once your set up and can reliably print ABS - I print ABS all the time. It's just stronger and an overall more durable plastic.
What 3D software did you use to create the bushings ?? What 3d printer did use to generate the molds ?? I ask, because I need to create a number of flexible urethane gaskets for headlight assemblies . Thanks !!
Then I end up with custom arms. If there was ever a problem with the arm, then it's more machining. I also wanted to try a different bushing design. So lots of pros and cons to each decision.
I'm not sure if these parts would be OK without baking the parts. I just followed the instructions for the material. I'm not sure about the 3M product.
surprised you didn't put knurling on the inside :-) i know, i know, impossible to remove the urethane.... did the purple bushings have silicone molds or something?
I could have done it, but the sizing of 3D prints is not very exact and the ridges left on the inside of the part from the print is more than enough surface area to hold a bit of grease.
@@ThrottleStopGarage But you don't need grease with the Delrin bearing sleeve - the idea is for the Delrin to rotate with the polyurethane (sliding easily on the steel sleeve), so there is no movement between the Delrin bearing sleeves and these polyurethane bushings, right?
Cheers!!! I liked your country!!! I traveled from kingston to quebec... (I prefer kingston hahahahahaha) I'll see how I can do that, here, in my country, there are no components to make polyurethane, I have to order it in the USA, but I want to make them for the supports of the engine... you know? is that they drive me crazy with the poor quality of the "original" mounts (originally false, I would say) of my car's engine. Take care, greetings from Caracas, Venezuela
I've never been to Venezuela - but would like to visit. Engine mounts are a really good application for polyurethane. I've for sure had exactly the problem you're talking about - poor quality replacement parts are such a waste of time. Good luck.
ha ha ha , things you try and get away with when the wife isn't home, I tried heating bearings up in the oven once. she pinged me as soon as she walked through the door.
It would. I've driven cars with Delrin and nylon bushings and they can be harsh. I've also driven with all spherical bushings. That's worse. Poly is fine (if it doesn't squeak) but I think it should be there for vibration/harshness damping and the rotation handled by the delrin. We'll see how it all works and if I hate it, I'll change it.
@@ThrottleStopGarage I hope it turns out as you hoped. There is no such study in Türkiye. It can give good results in rally drift vehicles. but the vibration issue in normal daily vehicles makes me think. easy again.
@@whosestone No, the urethane doesn't stretch that much. They were 3mm short! Probably for the later year cars is my guess. They for sure wouldn't work in my arms.
Why'd you make the holes so big? Aren't the sleeves for the bolts much smaller/don't you want more volume of bushing for more shock and vibration absorption? Other than that, why 70a? 70a is pretty soft as far as poly goes; it's about something I'd use for motor mounts, while generally I (and other car guys) go for something stiffer in the suspension since there's much less downside there, oddly enough. ((90a or so poly bushings on the engine, though? Forget it.))
These are not for the style of bushing you're thinking of...my design will have a delrin inner with a stainless steel sleeve. So it's a 3 piece bushing not just urethane and steel. It should give the deflection resistance as well as a little compliance without relying on the urethane to steel rotation which is normally the "problem" with the common 2 part bushing.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Oh, nice! Never even considered a 3-piece bushing, I was mostly considering ways to solve the 2 piece setup. So far, a zerk that reaches all the way to the inner sleeve combined with a special form of lube created with silicone grease and finely powdered graphite is, as I understand it, the best combination. Though the people touting the graphite powder silicone grease also say that a manual lube job will go 5 years without squeaking as long as you don't ruin the bond and wash it out by, for instance, spraying brake cleaner on your bushings.
@@ThrottleStopGarage I wish I had machined my control arms uniformly instead of making each derin bushing fit the control arm. It was alot of lathe work..
@@AndyFromm That would be a lot of work. That's the idea here - use the urethane to take up the little inconsistencies in the parts. I also think that in these positions - delrin is a better idea for a long-term bushing solution.
@@ThrottleStopGarage if I remember correctly the delrin irs kit for the "newer" mustangs involved boring all the control arms bushing holes to a set size so the bushings fit correctly. Apparently ford never machined them that consistent and the rubber didn't care.
Aren't bushings meant to stick? Isn't that why service instructions say install the bushing, hand tighten bolts, lower the car to the ground and then tighten the bolts to torque? They then act as a form of damper by always helping the suspension return to ride height position.
Nope...you tighten bonded rubber bushings at ride height so they are not adding to spring tension. Other bushing types allow the pivot to freely rotate. My design is of this type.
@@ThrottleStopGarage won’t bonded rubber bushings still add spring tension when the suspension is compressed and subtract when extended? So whether it’s compression or extension, the change in spring tension from the bush is always ‘helping’ the spring return to ride height. Isn’t that a form of damping? Or at least a negative spring of sorts; a spring that acts in the opposite direction of the main spring.
@@ThrottleStopGarage i 3d print a bunch of bushing all the time. My ATV has ninjaflex on it's a arms and they have held up very well for a few years now.
@@jasonhughes1156 Very cool. We'll see how these work out. I'd be willing to give it a try if these don't work out. Lots of time to experiment when I'm done with the major pieces.
It's unfortunate that commercialism has made PU a generally accepted material for bushes. There are only a few locations where the material can be applied in a durable way, since it's so prone to creep. Defending that by calling it for highly maintained track/race vehicles is BS in my opinion, example one of the major brands selling them to use in bmw rear subframes. After only a few months of the car standing on it's wheels, it'll have compressed the bushing half that squeezes between the body and subframe by enough to create visual play. Same goes for alignment values over a period of a year (light use), the whole front and rear wheel geometry has considerably changed.
I've been running mine in my daily 4x4 for 6yrs. No sag. One 🔑 he mentioned was space for grease. Also quality of urethane is also important. Lots of cheap stuff out there.
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
Love love love practical uses of 3d printing like this. Great work!
Thanks - Love your channel by the way.
This channel is seriously underrated.
Thanks - I do try.
It truly is! I shared his page on my Instagram hoping more people would check him out. He has some of the best content in car building IMO.
@@chad480906 Thanks Chad - really appreciated.
I just came across this channel tonight. The journey went from carbon fiber panels to this.
I’d rate the channel a 10 for any one video alone.
Also give it some exceptionally ambitious skill level super brain usage award. And how could one not totally appreciate how much information is being shared in these uploads? Inspirational! Thanks!
@@audimaster5000 Thanks Jeff. More to come as I continue the build.
Pour from higher up in the same spot instead of moving around the part. The urethane will flow into the mold and not capture any air. Pouring a thinner stream also helps any air in the mix to release.
That's a good tip. I'll try that if I have to do this again.
@@ThrottleStopGarage It was in one of the mold making videos, I've watched soo many at this point. Smooth on, BJBEnterprises, Brick In The Yard Mold Supply, freemanmfg
Here's a smoothon squish mold process for a tail light:
th-cam.com/video/Pu1RTkWHA3o/w-d-xo.html
Was thinking that when he was pouring. Going around is like putting a blanket on your bed vs dropping it a corner upright.
Excellent craftsmanship! I wanted to share some thoughts on bushing theory if you're open to it! Bonded rubber bushings when functioning keep the inner metal centered to the outer can which is pressed into the arm. Bushings are typically much stiffer axially, so when an axial force is applied they resist the displacement by a greater magnitude than in the radial direction. In a lower control arm a brake force would cause an axial reaction at that bushing (along with a radial force in opposite directions between the front and rear bushing) and if there was no axial preload, let alone stiffness, that hysteresis would slightly affect your alignment and the arm kind of wiggles around. That preload is also needed radially for proper performance. If the bushing isn't pressed into the arm, it technically has no radial displacement, and since it's a spring, there is no reaction force. Which means any small force creates a displacement, or a change in the alignment. Oversize the bushing OD and undersize the ID so the bushing already has some squish statically. A certain force magnitude then has to be applied to create any displacement, maintaining more stable suspension geometry with the same bushing stiffness rate. A softer bushing under a lot of preload will be better for response and isolation than a stiffer bushing with more preload essentially. I'm not assuming you do or do not know this already as you seem to up to a dual rate bushing of some kind, but a few of your comments could be interpreted ambiguously by someone with less exposure to bushing design.
Thanks for helping me deepen my understanding. I'm just about to launch into fixing this mess. I've got my bushings done, and there is a new video coming on the start of my next effort.
Excellent video. I have too many hobbies, none of which will require me to make suspension bushings. But....this pushed me over the edge on a 3D printer. A new application that I hadn't thought about. And the process of doing the casting was also great. Many uses for a vacuum pot. And I'm sorry you have the problems buying from us in the States. 🙂
Glad I could help. The suspension story should be moving along very shortly as I'm completing the frame design right now.
What happened? I watched this, went to comment, and it was gone! Now it's back.
Well, all I wanted to say was how impressed I am with your ability to fabricate in a multitude of materials. Few people are as diverse. Keep up the great work, I love following your progress.
Colour got all messed up in the old TH-cam machine and I looked like I was orange! Sorry about that. Thanks! It was therapeutic to smack the molds on the bench.
Good stuff! Designing bushings for a Tesla conversion AND my wife wants some custom roller skate wheels😎
Sounds like fun.
Always inspiring.! You made a point when holding up the yellow bins that i would love to hear you expand on. You have obviously learned over time and projects the pitfalls of this type of work. Id honestly love to hear you just talk about your first project... Or any of the lessons learned along the way. A top 5 "dont do this" when doing a car project? . The manner in which you approach and execute is excellent.
Great idea Marc. I think some of this will make more sense as we get deeper into the project. My top tip is to organize everything because these bushings may not be on the car for over a year and you could lose them etc. I will for sure do a top tips sort of review.
I’m keen to see how long they last.... seriously for rare hard to get bushings... this is a win.
Maybe try a few different densities... love R&D content.
Thanks for making this video... inspirational 💯 %
That's the idea. These may work great and I may need to pour another set that area a little harder. Fingers crossed.
A better way to pour is using a high pour in one spot. High pour meaning just pour from a higher distance in a thin stream, this allows bubbles to stretch and pop as it rolls off the edge of the cup. Also you want to pour in the lowest spot and in one spot, this allows the material flow naturally and push all the air up vs "filling the whole cavity and letting it settle and pouring again" This traps air underneath and causes more bubbles. Not saying its not possible to get good results but also will prevent a lot of time shaking and vibrating the mold.
also a DA sander against the mold can be used as vibration to help evacuate bubbles.
awesome job with the 3d printed molds!
Hard enough to see this stuff let alone getting it all in one place. LOL - all things to try for next time.
This is the DIYest DIY project ever. There is no argument about it.
Unfortunately...true.
The vacuum pot really works nicely for pulling the bubbles out. A little vibrating table might help.
For sure.
Those came apart nice. I half expected a prolonged struggle Iike with the peel ply.
So did I - then they just popped out. Easy.
great channel, only watched a few minutes but I can tell you're striving for the right thing
I appreciate that!
Hey a fellow Canuck building stuff in his garage! Subscribed!
Thanks...gotta keep the algorithm happy!
Keen to see a follow-up to see how durable these turn out under use. I love the idea and If wonder to see if there's a difference in materials beyond shore hardness. Things that come to mind is tear and compression strength. I know you plan to put them through their paces and if they hold up, I'm even more convinced!
This is a pure science experiment. They may work and they may not. I could switch hardness pretty easily when done. These bushings will be three piece - poly/delrin/stainless steel. All I can do is test and see what happens.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Exactly and the best part of it. A good day can have trials that fail, but a bad day is certain if you don't try at all.
@@ThrottleStopGarage In your comments about commercially available bushings you noted the lack of ability to hold grease... then you built bushings with no provision to hold grease. That and the large bore diameter make sense now, given your plan to use Delrin bearing sleeves inside the bushings (so the bushing won't slide on anything so no lubrication is needed), but it might have been good to explain that in the video.
@@brianb-p6586 The ID fo the bushing has the "as printed" surface which would effectively hold grease. The OD I don't want to rotate. I did miss this in the explanation - but not in the part.
@@ThrottleStopGarage I don't know why you would want the inside surface of the bushing to slide on the Delrin - if the polyurethane bushing and Delrin bearing are kept together by the roughness of the as-printed texture without grease, that seems preferable.
This is awesome! I was way over complicating this in my head. I was thinking print a proof, silicone mold, cast part. This is so convenient!
Glad it helped
Liked for the doggo and for the Don Cherry reference at the end! I have my 3D printer that I have been experimenting making car parts with. Just finished a 1.5" carbon nylon filament lift kit for my subaru.
Really havre been enjoying following this car process!!
Thanks - he's not made an appearance since he was a puppy.
Thanks for this one Craig. Just finished making 4 spring isolators for my 69 Datsun Roadster project that I couldn't find anywhere using the same process. Really enjoy the way you present the content. With what you are doing I still can't believe you don't have even a small lathe. I think you've made it a personal mission to see if you can do it without one.
Thanks, I don't have the room for a lathe...though the thought does cross my mind in my weaker moments.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Not even for a small one like Chris from Clickspring uses?
@GrayRaceCat not really...I need a bigger garage.
Awesome channel dude. Really enjoying it. the bought bushings being too short between flanges Iv run into before. They were also fairly oversize on the OD. However, when pressed into the arm and the internal metal bush was pressed in they became the right length because they couldn’t expand on the OD. So those blue ones may fit (although no on the edge radius) once squeezed in.
Just my 2pence worth anyhow. Cheers!
Interesting, I'd not thought about them compressing and adding length. That's good to know. Now that I'm this far along, I'm making a three part bushing with the "right" material doing their individual tasks. I'm a few months away from picking this part of the project back up. Testing won't really happen until I'm driving this car. Now that's when things get fun.
Sounds like you found SuperfastMatt's channel. He makes some great, highly entertaining videos.
Yes, we all pray at the altar of the algorithm.
Rewatching because I’m gearing up to make my own body mounts for my Riviera.
Thanks - I hope it helps.
So I got the printer retuned for PLA to print the molds when I looked at my stocks of filament and realized I have a ton of TPU (bought out someone else's stock years ago). What are your thoughts of direct printing a body mount with TPU using infill to vary the pilability?
Guess whose video was just featured on BangShift 😉👍
Congrats and keep at it!
Really! That's cool.
Great ep again love the learning and the attention to detail. FYI I’m Aussie and live in Australia so if you’re after any of the Superpro stuff give us a yell happy to help out if possible
Thanks - appreciated. These were not easy to get and when the didn't fit - that was sad. SuperPro have been great bushings for me over the years.
Excellent video, I had the same issue with my super pro bushings not fitting on the same car. I also paid a lot for those. My issue was the back, now I'm worried about the front not fitting properly as well.
They're usually pretty good - I've had more issues with brands other than Superpro. At least with these, I know they fit!
Ha Ha! Another SuperFastMatt fan. Great work, love it.
I wondered if anyone would catch the nod - love his stuff.
take the blade out of sawzall and place the fence on your mold, hold the trigger to vibrate your mold to your heart's content. power tools ftw!
I thought about either a palm sander or my crap inline body sander. In the end, I rather enjoyed smacking that board against the bench. I recommend doing this after reading work email. Very therapeutic. LOL.
Once again a very interesting video! My only complaint…not enough of them!🤷🏻♂️🤣🤣👍🏻 More Videos!!!👍🏻
More to come - it's hard to be as consistent as I'd like.
@@ThrottleStopGarage totally understand! Just a wee bit o’ ball bustin!😉👍🏻😂😂😂
nice work, i use the PMC all the time from 70 upto 90A i find it better to warm the poly to 28c before mixing as it mixes better it degasses better, i then degas again after the poly is poured into the mounts, PMC has about a 15-20min pot life and course is 48 hours you dont need to heat as the poly fully harden over a few days, heating to 65C just speeds up the proses,
Cool, thanks
That was a very informative video Throttle! Thanks! Cheers, Doug (Vancouver Island)
Glad it was helpful!
Hey mate, thanks for the video. It encouraged me to try it myself and am very happy with my first results!
Awesome news. Glad the video was helpful.
Fabulous. Can't get what you want, make it your self.
Thanks - just once, I'd like an off-the-shelf part!
Thanks for the info guy. Like all of us have a 3d printer sitting around
About a million ways to get this done. This is just one.
Your video is going to save my 1990 honda civic si hatch
Awesome, glad it was useful.
Just a suggestion, but I would have made the base plate for the mold a circle sized so it could fit in the vacuum chamber, then instead of all the aluminum hold downs, just another circular piece of plywood with holes for the mold fill holes. That would reduce your build time dramatically, reduce the setup time for each batch, and allow you to vacuum purge the poly inside the molds.
True - but it's also cold here and I was taking the board into the house to cure instead of having the heat cranked in my garage.
So you could possibly make bushings with a dual shore rating, casting a thin outer in a soft shore, and the an inner in a harder shore rating, getting both comfort and handling?
That's the idea Christian. More to come - just waiting on parts to get made.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Oh! Sorry if I spoiled it? The big bore did make me wonder…
I’ve been binging your videos since I found one of the first carbon fibre ones, your attention to detail is extraordinary!
While we are waiting for the next episode on Binky (I got your hints😉) there seems to be quite some extraordinary builders in Canada, I’m following Japhands too, great work!
I’m from Denmark, so used to seeing a lot of Amazons here, they were heavily customized in the ‘80’s
I have one Volvo myself, but that’s a 1953 Sugga.
@@Equine_moon It's not really a surprise - so nothing spoiled! I'd love a Sugga. There are a few C303's in Canada, but I don't know anyone with a Sugga.
Hiya Craig, I'm always amazed at the amount of patience and focus you have in seeing this project thru! It's been a long time coming. I also caught the Matt reference, EV power for the future. I wanted to buy one of the t-shirts you where wearing today but the store only shows a couple of options, you better check it out.
I'll get on it Alan - that design will be back up in a few days.
Here's the link Alan: throttle-stop-garage.creator-spring.com/listing/throttle-stop-garage-project-t
Can you do a test where you print bushings in TPU directly?
I've thought about it. If these don't work, I'll do it.
You probably need to make them a little bit oversized and hammer them in because of the tiny air gaps in 3d printing
@@ThrottleStopGarage
@@1marcelfilms I made them to size and then sanded them to as close as I could get.
Fascinating. How did you decide the bushing wall thickness? It appears you selected a wall substantially thinner than the commercial variants? Is this simply because your using much larger OD packings which decrease the poly unit loading and increase the eventual stiffness? Thanks for making us all think more 👍😎👍
I'm going to make a multipiece bushing. Poly is not great for rotation. I'm also thinking about small misalignment and other details. You'll see in a few episodes when the parts get made...struggling to get these parts made.
@@ThrottleStopGarage 😃 Looking forward to it 👍. I have no doubt you have a exceptional, well thought out plan. Sorry to jump the gun. I’ll Stand down and patiently wait for the next astonishing reveal.
In another comment he mentioned a Delrin component - that would be a bearing sleeve inside the polyurethane bushing, and the resulting need for a larger inside bore in the polyurethane.
Your channel is an inspiration ! Keep it up
Thank you! Will do!
you have gained a subscriber. thank you this is a great video.
Awesome, thank you!
The bushings that don’t move freely are supposed to not move freely they are tortional bushings that need to be tightened up with the suspension at ride height.
Understood. I just got all the parts in finally (2 years late) and will resume this part of the build in a bit.
I love this, any chance you can share the STL's?
Sure - I can post them on my Thingiverse site...it will only work with the rest of the bushing design - so stay tuned.
@@ThrottleStopGarage that would be awesome, I was planning on turning delrin for my Corvette but this design with only a delrin sleeve with a outer poly bushing will most probably get the best from both worlds 👍👍
@@Jockebanan99 I'm making a three part bushing. Poly/Delrin/Stainless. I'm waiting on the rest of the parts. My fitment is not stock due to packaging - but there is no reason that these won't be a good start point for a stock application. I'll post them later today.
www.thingiverse.com/thing:5178504
@@ThrottleStopGarage Awesome man, I will try them on my C4 Corvette with delrin inserts 👍
Great job! Any update how well they held up since then, and performance?
Not yet...still waiting on suspension parts and I'm just about to start rebuilding the frame.
@@ThrottleStopGarage looking forward to it. Cheers.
Yet another awesome video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Did you make the 3d prints in 2 parts so you can clamp them? Wouldn't it use less material if you flipped them and had the wider part at the top of the mould, it would all be one piece you could just pour into, there is also an option you can do with your printer to smooth out the flat top edges with the hot end to give you that nice smooth finish. Nice job though, i'm looking to do this myself soon but i'm not too sure on which poly mix to get.
They are two part molds - there was virtually zero wasted material when I made these. I like the texture that the printer leaves - it's somewhere for lubrication to sit in the finished part.
Beautiful. Sometimes if you pour slowly, at a single location, and let the liquid slowly flow down to and across the bottom of the mold and sort of fill the mold from the bottom up, you get a lot fewer bubbles. If you pour too quickly and cover the top opening, the air is trapped and tapping won't always force the bubbles to the surface. Also, letting the part set and cure under pressure (in a pressure pot) will collapse any trapped air so it doesn't form a void.
You going to be selling rides in that majestic Volvo when you're done?
I didn't master the super slow pour. Could have converted the vacuum chamber to also be a pressure pot. It was more work, but bubbles were not a problem.
When it's done...looking forward to doing a little tour.
Maybe a vibrating table would help with settling and air bubble entrapment.
For sure - there were also some great ideas in the comments.
Wonder if hitting the side of the fixture plate with either a DA sander or oscillating multitool would make getting the air out faster and easier... or just cause it to splash all off the place.
I think it would work just fine. This was partly therapy.
Great video I ran it at 1.5 speed. Couple of comments for all. When vacuuming chemicals to remove bubbles it is possible to remove essential solvents in the mix with too much vacuum. Better to do several short lower drawn downs to avoid this. I could tell by the frothing that this was happening. Also mechanical vibration is superior to whacking the bench but not as therapeutic lol. Another point ,I also wondered why the bushings were thinner than the aftermarket ones until you commented that you were putting delrin inserts in them. This must have made the overall bushing much stiffer since the poly portion being thinner won't absorb as much shock. Did you notice this in the vehicle? Thanks again for a great video.
I haven't finished the frame or suspension yet...so I don't know how it all works. We'll see.
Looking forward on the update! FYI new sub from me..
Nice job on the bushings, the biggest challenge as I see it is not having CAD software or knowledge & no ability to 3D print. Otherwise I would love to fabricate urethane bushings for my old cars or C4 Vette! Suggestions?
I use Fusion 360 - it's pretty intuitive. It's also free. If you were intent on doing this, there are lots of 3D options from online to local clubs/maker spaces that can help you out. Bushings for your application are available...just not for the early C4's
You could turn moulds from solid ABS (or other polymer) using a lathe.
@@brianb-p6586 Sure...but I don't have a lathe. I can just design the part and print it.
@@ThrottleStopGarage My suggestion was for Brian Schuett, who has no 3D printing ability, but might have a lathe.
One tip. If you had not completed the circle when pouring you would have had less bubbles to tap out.
Good video though, 😊
Thanks for the tip!
Two questions; 1) If the blue purchased bushing was nominally the right dimensions other than between the flanges, did you consider either turning them back (thining them) or turning one end of them off and only needing to make end cap washers? 2) If you felt the blue bushings were otherwise adequate, why didn't you start with measuring them? (They would have already included the anticipated compression in the material and such.)
Have you seen Robert Tolone's channel on making molds/castings? (Vacuum versus pressure, etc.)
I once tried to convert a hydro-pneumatic (?) engine mount to a solid urethane mount, that was a real bear. Got it made, (utilizing Devcon) but there were other issues with the engine.
I could have split the bushing - but I'd never trust it. I have also changed the design. This is going to be part of a multi piece bushing. Will it work? Who knows, but we're going to try.
@@ThrottleStopGarage I also thought if you were to split two bushings to make 1 in some combination. (Essentually two flanged bushings meeting in the middle, like the Vette bushings.) It's always a bit of a balance between the knowns and the unknowns, costs in money and (in this case mostly) time. Guess I would have gone to make a workable version out of the blues (since you otherwise seemed to have liked them) and moved on to the next issue. Of which you have plenty more I'm sure. As you know, always several was to approach a problem.
On many of my machines I get trapped in to making washers of all things; particularly for smaller screws for better distribution of the load. SAEs are so sloppy for 1/4s and smaller! Why someone doesn't make body fit -0/+.005" washers I don't know, I would certainly buy them when I needed better than a finished/jig washer. So I have them made at a very high cost/unit.
Nice work!
Thanks!
What 3D printer are you using for all your projects Craig?
I designed my own...it's sort of like a high spec Creality 10. Sorry - I'm a complete nerd with this stuff.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Thanks Craig
Very cool!! Question: do you have to use abs or could you use pla? Does the release agent act differently with different filaments?
You could use PLA or PETG (probably more the latter than the former) - but once your set up and can reliably print ABS - I print ABS all the time. It's just stronger and an overall more durable plastic.
look extremely soft
It is a bit of an experiment. Stay tuned.
What 3D software did you use to create the bushings ??
What 3d printer did use to generate the molds ??
I ask, because I need to create a number of flexible urethane gaskets for headlight assemblies .
Thanks !!
Fusion 360 is the CAD software I use. I build my own printer but lots of decent stuff on the market these days.
I wonder the end downside of machining the arms to fit the blue bushings. It looked like there was plenty of material to work with.
Then I end up with custom arms. If there was ever a problem with the arm, then it's more machining. I also wanted to try a different bushing design. So lots of pros and cons to each decision.
Can't we use it without baking ?
Also i want to know if i use 3M window weld insted of two part in the molds do i still need to bake it ?
I'm not sure if these parts would be OK without baking the parts. I just followed the instructions for the material. I'm not sure about the 3M product.
Very cool, thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching!
surprised you didn't put knurling on the inside :-) i know, i know, impossible to remove the urethane.... did the purple bushings have silicone molds or something?
I could have done it, but the sizing of 3D prints is not very exact and the ridges left on the inside of the part from the print is more than enough surface area to hold a bit of grease.
@@ThrottleStopGarage But you don't need grease with the Delrin bearing sleeve - the idea is for the Delrin to rotate with the polyurethane (sliding easily on the steel sleeve), so there is no movement between the Delrin bearing sleeves and these polyurethane bushings, right?
Good Job Man!! I learned a lot. Thx!
Glad it helped!
Wow,Great video
Thanks!
Cheers!!! I liked your country!!! I traveled from kingston to quebec... (I prefer kingston hahahahahaha) I'll see how I can do that, here, in my country, there are no components to make polyurethane, I have to order it in the USA, but I want to make them for the supports of the engine... you know? is that they drive me crazy with the poor quality of the "original" mounts (originally false, I would say) of my car's engine. Take care, greetings from Caracas, Venezuela
I've never been to Venezuela - but would like to visit. Engine mounts are a really good application for polyurethane. I've for sure had exactly the problem you're talking about - poor quality replacement parts are such a waste of time. Good luck.
Looks like I should start hunting for a decent 3d printer
I'm not sure how I'd live without these days.
Hey would you still have your CAD'd part for the 3d print file?
Are you planning on making these? I've not finished or tested this design. It does not fit the stock part if that's what you're thinking.
Are you going to be refining your own fuel when its done since you cant get anything without ethanol?
Not in the current plan...I am building the fuel system to be ethanol compatible with a flex fuel sensor.
What do tou mean cant see it really well? Saw the bend as soon as the dogbone came into frame. 5:24
It was hard to see when the control arm was assembled. It's easier to see when I was taking it apart.
ha ha ha , things you try and get away with when the wife isn't home, I tried heating bearings up in the oven once. she pinged me as soon as she walked through the door.
I washed engine parts in the dishwasher once...emphasis on the once.
@@ThrottleStopGarage ha ha, yea wouldn’t down well, love your channel mate, one of the best out there
you think , can it be cheaper than buying it online ?
It's cheaper because you can't buy them online.
Hello
What I'm wondering is, when the rubber part is completely made of plastic, doesn't it transmit the vibration from the wheel to the case?
It would. I've driven cars with Delrin and nylon bushings and they can be harsh. I've also driven with all spherical bushings. That's worse. Poly is fine (if it doesn't squeak) but I think it should be there for vibration/harshness damping and the rotation handled by the delrin. We'll see how it all works and if I hate it, I'll change it.
@@ThrottleStopGarage I hope it turns out as you hoped. There is no such study in Türkiye. It can give good results in rally drift vehicles. but the vibration issue in normal daily vehicles makes me think. easy again.
when you press it in it doesn't elongate?
Nope. They fit very nicely.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Nah mate, the first ones that were too short
@@whosestone No, the urethane doesn't stretch that much. They were 3mm short! Probably for the later year cars is my guess. They for sure wouldn't work in my arms.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Thank you for the reply and great videos!
good video
Thanks
How about printing the bushings themselves out of tpu?
I thought about it and may do it in the end. I am going with a three part bushing with delrin and stainless.
I know this is an old video, but next time you make a abs mold look into acetone smoothing for a nice surface finish.
You could, buy there wasn't any point to the extra work. A little texture allows space for lubricant.
Why'd you make the holes so big? Aren't the sleeves for the bolts much smaller/don't you want more volume of bushing for more shock and vibration absorption? Other than that, why 70a? 70a is pretty soft as far as poly goes; it's about something I'd use for motor mounts, while generally I (and other car guys) go for something stiffer in the suspension since there's much less downside there, oddly enough. ((90a or so poly bushings on the engine, though? Forget it.))
These are not for the style of bushing you're thinking of...my design will have a delrin inner with a stainless steel sleeve. So it's a 3 piece bushing not just urethane and steel. It should give the deflection resistance as well as a little compliance without relying on the urethane to steel rotation which is normally the "problem" with the common 2 part bushing.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Oh, nice! Never even considered a 3-piece bushing, I was mostly considering ways to solve the 2 piece setup. So far, a zerk that reaches all the way to the inner sleeve combined with a special form of lube created with silicone grease and finely powdered graphite is, as I understand it, the best combination. Though the people touting the graphite powder silicone grease also say that a manual lube job will go 5 years without squeaking as long as you don't ruin the bond and wash it out by, for instance, spraying brake cleaner on your bushings.
@@Drunken_Hamster I've used decent quality marine grease and had good luck and no squeaks.
What's the product name ( part A and Part B) and where to get it?
Smooth-On makes the urethane - they're online.
Next video: "How to mine iron ore and build a forge to cast your own parts"
LOL - best comment so far.
Where can I get the molds?
I just 3D printed what I needed. These are for a custom suspension I have designed.
Realy wish you mentioned where you got everything from. Good video and very informative otherwise. cheers
In the description. Smooth-On is on the web and the rest is just 3D printed parts.
I somehow missed this episode.
Always good to check!
I ended up making delrin bushings for my irs because no one made them anymore
The design I worked out has a delrin inner and a stainless sleeve. We'll see how it all works.
@@ThrottleStopGarage I wish I had machined my control arms uniformly instead of making each derin bushing fit the control arm. It was alot of lathe work..
@@AndyFromm That would be a lot of work. That's the idea here - use the urethane to take up the little inconsistencies in the parts. I also think that in these positions - delrin is a better idea for a long-term bushing solution.
@@ThrottleStopGarage if I remember correctly the delrin irs kit for the "newer" mustangs involved boring all the control arms bushing holes to a set size so the bushings fit correctly. Apparently ford never machined them that consistent and the rubber didn't care.
Uploaded 28 seconds ago!
Well, and an hour before that.
Aren't bushings meant to stick? Isn't that why service instructions say install the bushing, hand tighten bolts, lower the car to the ground and then tighten the bolts to torque? They then act as a form of damper by always helping the suspension return to ride height position.
Nope...you tighten bonded rubber bushings at ride height so they are not adding to spring tension. Other bushing types allow the pivot to freely rotate. My design is of this type.
@@ThrottleStopGarage won’t bonded rubber bushings still add spring tension when the suspension is compressed and subtract when extended? So whether it’s compression or extension, the change in spring tension from the bush is always ‘helping’ the spring return to ride height. Isn’t that a form of damping? Or at least a negative spring of sorts; a spring that acts in the opposite direction of the main spring.
@@zeitgeist785 sure...depends on the design of the bushing. Some are designed for the and some are not.
Why didn't you 3d print the bushings out of tpu?
My direct feed printer is quite slow and with all the pre-heat that you have to do...well I wasn't sure it was the right idea.
@@ThrottleStopGarage i 3d print a bunch of bushing all the time. My ATV has ninjaflex on it's a arms and they have held up very well for a few years now.
@@jasonhughes1156 Very cool. We'll see how these work out. I'd be willing to give it a try if these don't work out. Lots of time to experiment when I'm done with the major pieces.
22:40 I like those cookies
LOL - taste funny.
It's unfortunate that commercialism has made PU a generally accepted material for bushes. There are only a few locations where the material can be applied in a durable way, since it's so prone to creep. Defending that by calling it for highly maintained track/race vehicles is BS in my opinion, example one of the major brands selling them to use in bmw rear subframes. After only a few months of the car standing on it's wheels, it'll have compressed the bushing half that squeezes between the body and subframe by enough to create visual play. Same goes for alignment values over a period of a year (light use), the whole front and rear wheel geometry has considerably changed.
I've been running mine in my daily 4x4 for 6yrs. No sag. One 🔑 he mentioned was space for grease. Also quality of urethane is also important. Lots of cheap stuff out there.
Very true. These will be the outer shell of a multi part bushing.
walls too thin, gonna get rekt!
Should be just fine when done. If not - we do it again.
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Apparently.