I get what the scene was trying to do but it felt kinda unnatural to me. Everyone we see from marleys military is so fixated on the idea of eldians being devils ready to destroy the world as soon as they get the chance (as that’s how they were raised), and once Eren proves them right (from their pov) all of a sudden he gets a spiritual awakening to understand both sides. Maybe if he was a reoccurring character throughout the time skip with a built up change of heart it would work better.
@@ozren8917 Yeah but it's not inconsistent per se, because seeing he's an old guy he must have gotten much experiencem and he probably was already getting uncertain. Plus we saw it through Magath that some did evolve. Some argued that Magath should have had that role. I agree in a way but Magath dying with Shadis was perfect. And a Muller character was perfect for the ending. So I guess it's fine. It would have been perfect if the dude had appeared once before like in the Liberio raid and just looked really unsure about Marley's decisions. Or we can just see it as well yeah in front of death you realised you fucked up. That's pretty much what all major characters were going through in the final arc. Questioning their life choices and what truly matters to them.
@ yeah we can make assumptions on it but i would simply like it being explored more. Magath got to talk and cooperate with people of paradis to understand them. While this is a guy we see for the first time looking at the propaganda he was fed for his whole life coming true and only then breaking away from it? Like it makes sense from our pov but i really struggle to understand it from his (because again we don’t even know the character himself, we can only look at him through the general image of marleys military that we have which wasn’t shown to have any real outliers).
@@ozren8917 Yeah he's a narratively very conveniant character that serves the plot and that makes him feel less natural. Serves a great purpose narratively but considering the lack of exposure he can't be considered a great character. Still like him tho.
@@ozren8917 Every organization will eventually have its dissenters. Even military authoritarian countries. There will always have people who wonder if they’re the bad guys no matter the brainwashing.
Some cool visual symbolism surrounding Eren's Founding Titan form and how it reflects how he's not truly free and is actually trapped by his own nature. 1. His titan form's massive ribcage is essentially just a massive cage like the metaphorical one he's been trying to escape this whole series. 2. The front of his titan looks a lot like a marionette puppet being held up by strings, showing how even know his actions are still being manipulated by his future memories. 3. Because the wall titans moved with him when he began the Rumbling, it means that despite doing all this to escape past the walls and see the outside world, he technically never really escaped past the walls. They moved with him, keeping him trapped behind them even after unlocking Godlike powers. 4. When Kid Eren is soaring above the clouds shouting "Freedom!" as he enacts the Rumbling. In the manga you see that the supposed clouds below him aren't actually clouds, that instead it's the mass amount of hot steam trails being emitted from the Rumbling. Being a clear visual representation of how false the sense of freedom Eren is experiencing in that scene really is.
I think what's truly interesting is that this is all being told via a manga or anime. It's all predetermined, and every time we experience it, eren is forced to live the same hell again and again. I personally think there is a lot of symbolism to sisyphus and the boulder. Eren literally carried the boulder, there is an implied timeloop In the story, and finally Erwin's final speech and armins conversation with zeke sound very absurdist. Even if eren and friends are doomed to an eternity of torment, the small moments of peace given to them by rebelling against the very predetermined nature of a manga grants them small moments of peace Whether it's running in the wind, passing a ball back and forth, or wrapping a scarf around someone, the fact that they can do it again and again forever might also be a blessing
It's very interesting that he's trapped in a Bootstrap paradox, supposedly that only he can be trapped in. Bcs he is the Attack Titan, meaning, the whole reason it fights for freedom throughout the ages is just because of Eren, it's final and complete user.
@akhiltrc9708 which is why he says he is too stupid to find a better way. He thinks that someone smarter could figure out a way around the paradox. He is left only able to make marginal improvements. He is only there to save Mikasa because Eren Kruger talked about them to Grisha, and that day, Grisha decided to introduce Eren to Mikasa. So Mikasa doesn't get saved until, at some point, her abilities are triggered. It's also possible that Armin and Eren aren't friends as children leaving Armin alone and bullied.
I cry every time when people start passing that baby back from the cliff. There's nothing that can be done, and yet they do what they can. The best part of the indomitable human spirit in action.
@@badmanjosh6091 English isn't my first language so correctly if I'm wrong but I thing what @Merith89 mean is that in the moment the people were being chased by thousands of colossal titans and in front of them a cliff. In that moment where nothing they could do, no hope since behind them there are titans and in front of them a cliff, despite that they still tried to save the little baby
And then that Marley baby grew up to hate Eldians, for what Eren did to his mother, which leads to that baby future grandchildren to be responsible for the destruction of the island.
It is my belief that Eren truly had the freedom to do what he wished. What stopped him was his beliefs. I think it's a fact that time is fixed, and yet also Eren was truly free. He could just see into the future, but he couldn't change it because he himself wouldn't change his behavior. All these things would lead to Paradis being destroyed. He said he tried it many times. To change the way events unfolded. It wasn't times magic hand thwarting him. It was what he himself was willing to allow to happen. He could've changed things, but the results wouldn't fall under the parameters he established. So he couldn't change things. It's a catch 22. So he was trapped by his beliefs, a slave to freedom. The freedom of his friends and his people. At least, to his understanding. A garden variety idiot who got hands on power. The only solution he could think of.
@@sriver004 The other solution was to try peace but to the very likely risk that they'd die. That to me was the way to go but it's not as if he had many others chill solutions to go with
Eren was always free, but his human nature of keep moving forward through violence and his ideals of freedom made him a slave. Everything he did was his own choice, but those choices were driven by his nature. For example, Eren, in his rage, forced Grisha to kill the Reiss family and take the Founding Titan, telling him to pass it on to his younger self. He also sent memories of the future to his younger self to guide him to that moment. This shows that Eren was free to make his own decisions, but his freedom became a trap because of his own ideals and actions.
@@aryavairagare5418 That's just an interpretation but it's interesting if Eren did influence his younger self through visions. It would give an explanation to why Eren was obsessed with freedom from a young age beside just his nature. I don't like tto think tho that Eren influenced more than Grisha and himself. I don't see Eren influencing the whole timeline bacause it takes away the agency of the other characters and as stated by Historia in the end the results were not the consequence of Eren's actions but everyone's
Honestly after Arcane finale, I've gained a new level of respect for AOT's ending. Being able to conclude "time travel", "multiverse" what if scenarios AND a global political plot, while still giving its viewers all the chatacter interactions we've waited yrs for, along with a natural conclusions for almost all characters, paired with plot reveals that recontextualize the story even at the end and a grand battle keeping the viewers on edge....is NOT EASY.
I also saw parallels between the two endings. While Arcane pretty much threw away the class conflict because of a greater threat, the greater threat in Attack on Titan is a direct of result of the conflict/oppression.
Arcane s02 was not very good but AoT finale was an absolute dumpster fire worse than GoT s08. Every single character became a full retard weirdo, almost all plot line got the "it happened because reasons" treatment, the conflict being resolved by Armin little speech was the most ridiculous "let's be friend talk" ever, the conversation between Eren crying over being cucked by Mikasa and Armin thanking him for genociding 80% of mankind was probably the worst conversation in manga history, hilariously awful. I can't believe there is still people defending this dogshit after all the videos and essays all over the internet explaining in details every plot hole, character assassination, contradictory themes etc...🤣
I think in the scene with Armin and Eren, Armin was expressing two things simultaneously: thanking Eren for his love and devotion towards them, while also condemning the atrocities he committed for that devotion. Perhaps the juxtaposition is clearer in Japanese, but even in the way it is translated, it's clear to me that Armin is trying to communicate his affection towards Eren without sugarcoating how horrible of a person he has become. And Armin wants to shoulder part of that blame because Eren turned to that for their sake.
are we forgetting that even during freedom scene EREN LOOKED AT ARMIN FOR VALIDATION he still looked at armin and said 'this is freedom right armin?" obviously eren has become a horrible person but at the same time he doesnt neglect everything and armin knows that
I think Armin is approaching Eren from a place of understanding. They are both people who have done horrible things; obviously not of the same magnitude. Armin has killed and wiped out supposedly hundreds of civilians and children at the raid on Liberio. And he said to himself that he didn't have a choice. He's trying to understand Eren from such a position. Both of them, with immensely destructive powers, having done terrible things with said powers, but having dealt with the guilt that using it brings. I think that's where the "we'll see each other in hell" comment comes from. This is also shouldered from Armin's own quotes from the past: "A good person? Well... I don't really like that term.. because to me it just seems to mean someone who's good for you... And I don't think there's any one person who's good to everyone...". I don't think any of them consider themselves a good or a horrible person. Especially Armin. Yet, it is Armin's wanting to approach conflict with diplomacy that separates him from Eren; even though Armin's approach doesn't bring a conclusive solution, while Eren's kind of does, however deplorable it may be. That's what forced each of them to the terrible crimes they committed.
Ymir don't know what love was. But she wanted to be wanted by someone else. She wanted to be valued and loved. And her Titan powers made her valuable to the king; in her mind, this was the closest thing to love she ever experienced. she know he's using her. and she realized he didn't love her. but still she can't let go of him. let go of her wish to be loved by him. it was not love. it's was obsession.
Exactly, and from all people, we take eren's word "love" for it. It's obviously much more complex than that. As armin put it, maybe she was just looking for human connection, that's why all the subjects of ymir are connected.
also we have to get that is Armin telling the story,so when he told it,he can only say what Eren told him directly.We have no acces to deep Eren thoughts,because Armin does not have.
What I love about this series is that even four years later I’m still learning things or even adjusting perspectives on some things. Such a great story.
Eren is a never-ending character exploration for me. There's so much to think about in regards to him, his motivations, limits of his power and knowledge.
I thing im so glad you were able to understand that many miss, is that while yes eren is a slave to fate and the attack titan. He still WANTS to destory humanity. his disappointment to what the world really was like, crushed him and like he said he was an idiot with power... he chose the rumbling cause it was sight no one had seen, that was freedom something brand new.
Yeah but at the same time considering he is emotionally dead from the moment the rumbling starts I wouldn't say he fully wants it either. Eren is a victim of the horrors of humanity. He couldn't see what good was left in it.
@fs400ion but a version of eren did, whichever the first one was that sent his memories back changing slight stuff, wanted it. And each subsequent eren resonated with those feelings, but the current eren is grappling with the thought of doing it since he know he is forced to he sees the irony of it, that he wants nothing more than to be free but he is forced to do this, yet knowing equally he wants it
@@nickenglehart6469 I dont think we need to establish a first or second Eren to show that he has complexity within him. Since it's a looped timeline there's only one Eren who was always there. Kid Eren just wanted to see the world and reach freedom with Ymir, Eren before visting Marley was pissed and wanted to destroy it after he saw the outside world was still cruel, and then Eren who visited Marley just was sad by the way thing turn out with the Rumbling he hated but also wants
@@Rowan_A_Boat i would say it makes a huge difference, changing eren character completely, where one is just doing this to save his friends, the other and correct version, is a phycopath, who wanted to kill the world with his with his friends fredom 2nd
I liked the showing of Ymir where she actually did let the pigs out at the beginning of the story and she wasn't just used as a scapegoat by the villagers. To me it showed she believed in freedom even from before she gained the titan powers. Possibly what made her decide to build an attack titan that their focus was on freedom and to rebel.
Isyaama said she did it out of compassion recently and wanting freedom but it seemed a risky with her ominous smile , while it usually works out I feel he went too risky in trying to twist interpretations of events with this scene in the last chapter
I dont think Attack titan's previous users focus on freedom stems from Attack titan itself. It was never directly revealed but I think it is implied that it is because of Eren's influence itself that all of the previous users are known for fighting for freedom.
Yep. Isayama recently stated that she released the pigs because she related to their situation too. Meaning, she also wanted that freedom she was giving to them.
I love the moment when Annie throws Mikasa in the air 😂😂😂and when they have their “okapi” discussion 😭😂their dynamic was so good throughout the whole show haha
I don’t think Armin’s words to Eren can be taken entirely at face value. Any tenderness feels like an act of comfort and pity, not approval. He does first berate Eren about his plan, rightfully so. But Armin has a big heart. Only hating Eren in their final moments won’t change anything. So Armin claims shared responsibility. He might blame himself partially, but mainly he’s sharing the burden. To give Eren some peace of mind, while making it clear he’s going to hell. Armin is both condemnatory and pitiful. I think while the manga leans a bit too much to the latter, the anime balances both well
Exactly. It's obvious here that Armin is using his emotional intelligence here. Plus Isayama confirmed that his intentions were to have Armin express solidarity to his best friends in his final moments.
@@korrok2834 I get the phrasing is weird. Saying thanks for becoming a mass murderer. But I it's not as if Armin was happy about that since right after he still Said "I wont let this mistake go to waste". Yet many haters seem to claim that Armin was ok with the Rumbling because of saying thanks you to Eren while he LITERALLY tells Eren it's a mistake in the same sentence. So yes it's a weird quote. No it's not off character.
@@korrok2834 just checked and the fan translation was off. He said "Thank you. You became a mass murderer for our sake" which is not as bad as the silly "thank you for becoming a mass murderer"
@@fs400ion I think it was just incredibly poorly phrased regardless of version and the anime did a good job of clarifying the intent without it being so easy to misconstrue. Just a case where in glad the anime could sort that one out.
The time shenanigans unlock an even deeper layer of understanding of Eren's character: his inability to change. Every time Eren tries to change the future he's seen, he's unable to do it. Every time, it's not because of a supernatural "destiny" or "fate" pulling Eren's strings, but because Eren himself is unable to change his nature. He couldn't stop himself from saving Ramzi from those thugs because it was in his nature to step in and take action when he saw an injustice he couldn't stomach. That's why he calls himself a "half-hearted piece of shit" like Reiner (who also stepped in to save people he was planning to kill back in season 2). It's the same reason Eren also couldn't stop the rumbling even though he knew it was incredibly evil....because that's the future he wanted and it was in his nature. Another element of the story I love regarding Eren's character is highlighted in the Return to Shinganshina arc. "Give up on your dreams, and die for us." That's what Levi tells Erwin in one of the story's most iconic moments. Erwin was also someone motivated by a lifelong selfish dream (to learn the truth of this world that got his father killed). He sacrificed countless soldiers' lives for that selfish dream, telling himself it was for humanity's sake. There was never any issue with that hypocrisy as long as those two goals were aligned. But when the two goals came into conflict during the battle with the Beast Titan, Erwin was able to give up on his dream and die for the sake of his comrades and humanity as a whole. In that same arc, Armin (Erwin's future successor) was also able to give up on his dream to see the ocean and "die" to bring down the Colossal Titan. Unlike those two, Eren is the negative example of someone who was unable to give up on his dream and chose to sacrifice humanity in that selfish pursuit.
Very great analysis that again shows a big difference between Erwin and Armin. Some say Armin would never have had the `balls` to do what Erwin did. Well yeah it's true that Armin would not have sacrified soldiers the way Erwin did. Regarding Eren tho he did had this selfish desire of reaching freedom at all cost, but that was to free Ymir and end the curse + giving freedom to his friends. So it was in a way both selfish and selfless. It's worth noting that Eren's rumbling scenario also implies his own death pushing forward the idea of selfless selfishness. Eren knew the Rumbling would kill him too. Plus people forget how amazing Eren grew up to season 3. In season three he was willing to let Historia kill him to save humanity. He punched himself for thinking it was logical for others to sacrifice their lives for him since he was special. Eren grew so much. He just got fucked up when he saw the future and became haunted by traumatic visions. I can't hate Eren specifically because of what he went true. It's top horrible experience. His own life was traumatic but then he got the traumas of his father, Kruger, and more.
@@fs400ion yep and that is why the alliance including armin doesnt tell eren he is a villian or a horrible person they already know what eren has gone through
Weird that you got any pushback AT ALL about the spine creature’s origins when THE LITERAL EPISODE INFO CARD offers “deity” or “god” as one of the potential options. I think your critiques of the ending are absolutely valid. I didn’t hate the (manga) ending by any means , but I definitely knew some people that did. Back when the ending dropped, the fandom raged. Time , space, & a really stellar anime adaptation really served to polish what was regarded by some as a lackluster conclusion in regards to Armin & Eren’s final confrontation. I adore the anime’s adaption of the ending on the level Evangelion controversial & mind bending finales.
Well the info card is just what people will believe what happened to Ymir without having concrete info. It's like saying "It's God" for anything we have no explanation for. It's God's work.
I really do think Attack on Titan will be remembered as a classic in the exact same vein as Eva. Like, literally exactly the same. From the same way people loathe the series, not even including the endings. To the various different interpretations of the themes and messages. I mean, hell, people argue to this day whether the show's ending was happy or not... just like AoT. I'm way too young to have been there for the Eva discussions, so it's nice to be here for all the discussion about AoT.
Unless she is talking about comments that were deleted, I didn't see any that I would call "pushback". I saw people not agree, but I didn't see any that were upset with her initial interpretation.
As controversial as it was, I love the decision to make Eren's motivation so lack luster and basic. He was never special or a chosen savior, he was just a charismatic and passionate kid who was granted power and took advantage of that, leading to revolution. It's a narrative we see often in real history and in this story we ourselves fall for that trap. A controversial and charismatic figure in a society that gains power by over stepping boundaries and making large promises of freedoms and glory for their nation, heard that anywhere before?
@Maxapta The attack on Titan ending is a mess cause it fails with of humans always want to fight each other. In the ending, we see Pardais getting destroyed and Alliance is seen as a hero and don’t how they seen since they raid Marley and switch to their side they should be labeled as terrorists, not hero’s imo. The is main issue that this ending was way too happy in legit everyone in the alliance survived I don’t know if they came back alive it should have been explained how they all survived that battle. Then Eren while the conversation with Armin wasn't good said he didn't know why he did Rumble in previous chaps he said that he did want to kill humanity to protect Pardais but in the ending, we see panels of Pardais getting destroyed by Marley destroying his homeland which doesn't make sense since on of Eren goals was protect Pardais and basically dead for nothing. Then there are other issues with the Titans. We see a see tree in the last panel of the manga which tells us Titans curse is back. Which makes Eren's whole point of being a character nonexistent. Faclo was he right he should of listened to him.
Eren actually has the most complex and layered motivations I've ever seen. They're intricately connected to his philosophy and psychology, and masked by his false altruism. The "I don't know why, but I wanted to" scene is in fact one of the best scenes in the series, but it's more about Eren's inability to understand his nature (since he's been running away from it the entire story), than it is about having a basic motivation. If you're saying Eren's motivation is basic just because it's 'he wanted to', then the reasoning behind Eren wanting to do it has insane depth and complexity.
RRRAAAHHH. THE WOMAN HAS FINISHED HER MAD RAVINGS. Glad you enjoyed it through to the end Merphy, such an amazingly told story overall imo. And it only got better for me on my rewatch. Not everything was perfect, but it stuck just about everything that it needed to for the story Isayama wanted to tell as far as I see it.
The story of pointless suffering, empty mysteries, and loathsome characters? I'm also glad he got to write the story he wanted. I wish he had never been published.
A fun point to think about is that Eren was robbed from a lot of “firsts”. He didn’t get to see the sea for himself but instead saw it through his dads memories.
I also agree with that because after he gets the founders' memories, not only does he see all past timeliness, he goes everywhere on earth because of the previous users living their lives at different places.
I feel so seen, I got this when Mikasa offered him Ice cream, even though he had not tasted any himself he wasn't excited as his friends, then Armin continuously telling Eren to stop spacing out and pay attention to the right now, he doesn't say that exactly but I took it as that.
he doesnt like the sea like armin does ,he even confesses this to everyone in s3 ep18 when there is a debate about armin and erwin he only likes WHAT THAT SEA represents which is freedom
@@datch8044 i dont think you are getting the point on what eren wants he was excited to see the sea , volcanos in the first place because he wanted freedom when that wasnt there HE WASNT EXCITED AT ALL while armin doesnt care about that freedom and enjoy every moment of his life to the fullest
Some things to say here: 1) The time-wimey stuff works like this. There is ONE timeline, time works like a flat circle closed loop. What has happened will always happen. That is not up for debate really. However what people argue about is whether that is preordained by fate, Ymir, or whoever, or in a compatibilistic sense the actors of the story assume ethical responsibility and are responsible for making said choices. And I think the series has been good at establishing the latter multiple times. For example, the Attack Titan users have clear, personal goals and motivations for doing what they're doing. Yes, future-seeing affects them to a degree, but at their core they still move forward to achieve their own dreams regardless of any time shenanigans. The only time someone is shown to do something they are "forced" to because of time shenanigans is the Dina twist in the end, which still is only even possible in the first place because Eren did everything he did to get to this point, still making him responsible. Imagine if Armin had these powers all along. Can we really say the story would turn out anywhere near the same? Probably not if we're being honest to ourselves, which means the story succeeded in what it was trying to say here. The closed loop flat circle mechanic/power system is just a brilliant literalization of the running theme of "everyone is a slave to something" that is especially prevalent for AT users that chase freedom, yet are ironically stripped of it. Eren of course is the epitomy of it, as you explained I believe. He knows he's responsible for what will happen, HE wanted this, as he said a billion times, and he's a hypocrite for feeling any sort of pity for himself. The Ch131/Special 1 scene with Ramzi is a masterclass for that reason. It is in that moment that Eren realizes why the future is set in stone; not because of some vaguery, but because it's in his nature and who he is as a person. Much like he can't help himself from saving Ramzi, he can't help himself from enacting the Rumbling, as a means of finally usurping his twisted ideal of "freedom" that he felt he's been robbed of his entire existence.That's why he says in the finale scene with Armin that he "tried" to change the future but couldn't, and why he ultimately calls himself an idiot. And this clicking into place informs his entire demeanor in S4 retroactively: this realization fills him both with immense determination to be the villain he knows he is, yet it also eats away at him because he know how much of a piece of shit he is, and like Reiner, he wishes for someone to end it, end his life, stop him. 2) Ymir. I think like many people, perhaps a mistake here is that people think the love reveal is mutually exclusive with what was implied before. The reality is that Ymir's arc is that of self-discovery and healing through trauma. Put very shortly, Eren grants her the freedom of agency, of acting how she wants finally, which Ymir uses to go on this journey, by observing the Alliance and learning through them. She observes Armin and Zeke's conversation and learns from Armin the value that exists in life despite its cruelty, and ponders on how that relates to her life. Mikasa then shows her what that can mean, and Ymir rejects the King, who she mistakenly latched onto due to her own dream of wanting to find love and connection in life (as was said by Armin and implied by the way the hallucigenia manifested Ymir's powers with the Paths that connects Eldians to her). Ymir then in the end realizes that her source of love, happiness and connection was her children and not the King. The love thing had numerous hints prior to it, if you pay close attention, both in her original backstory and in Zeke's conversation, and I find Ymir's arc quite thematically consistent with the rest of the story. The motifs of "everyone is a slave to something" and the "world is cruel but also so beautiful", which relate to Ymir's character arc.
01:03:23-01:03:44 SO TRUE. I’m soooo glad (and honestly, relieved) that you loved the series. It’s such a journey and the rewatchability is insane. You’ll get to see the small things that at first had seemed irrelevant but are actually part of the big picture that Isayama wanted to convey. I’m extremely excited for your final vlog! Such a shame it’s all over, but Merphy, I will watch you rave like a mad woman over and over if it means you’re talking about one of my most favorite things in the world. 🤩
In my humble opinion, the scene of armin hugging eren and telling him we'll meet in hell is the best scene in the entire series, i don't see that it takes from the unforgivable and unimaginable weight of Eren's sins... it's about armin sharing the blame when he tells him we'll be together after this ... after ...where ? in hell ! it's not about faith or believing in eren it's about pure love and responsibility armin in his heart of hearts feels that he shares the blame for creating eren this eren and his actions. and he still loves eren not because of what he did or what he represents it's because he is eren his eren his first friend the kid who shared most of his life dreams fears horrors joy with ... armin despises what eren did his first reaction was breaking down beating eren telling him that it's not done stop this ... but he can't help but still care for eren we want them to hate and despise the monster the mass murderer but what if that mass murderer was my brother your son his mother ... attack on Titan is a story about sinners. no one's hands are clean some are vastly more than others ... but do these sinners have no emotions do they deserve no compensation... even i as a viewer can't help but see Eren in a tragic and human light despite what he did. that scene touchs me on a very deep level ...but that's just my experience . Great video! still sad that the ravings are over.
Years ago I was commenting on One Piece videos suggesting Attack on Titan and I've loved these vlogs so much, thank you! The way I (a grown ass 33 year old man) bawled when I thought Jean and Connie were finished, and then Armin's reaction Eren's death... This series hurts my soul.
I feel like the whole point of the original Titan is more that it's a metaphor for the unexplainable nature of life itself. We don't know where life comes from. From our POV it just happened one day. And to some it seems like it must be connected to some supernatural origin. Just like life itself 😅 Always seemed pretty straightforward to me. Never understood why people get hung up on it.
Thankyou for finally being able to complete this story Merphy. Depending on the end of one piece, it is my favourite manga/anime. Everything about it is so perfect. The fact that people can still talk about it after this time in such depth is a testament to the story that was written. It’s a shame you didn’t like the Eren/Armin speech in the anime…. I thought it was perfect, combined with the soul shattering scream from Armin’s VA in the sub, it gets me every time!
11:40 It's actually because as Isayama said in an interview it is more simplistic than that, Eren thought they were the only humans left and they were going to see unexplored frontiers and landscapes like in the books, but since outside is the same as the inside the walls with a bunch of people living in the world he was very disappointed.
It was a pleasure watching your review of the series! Thanks for sharing with us. :) A couple of thoughts I have: - I think Mikasa's whole arc has more so been about her fear of loss and losing Eren after her trauma of losing her family, who she loves the most, rather than being obsessed with him as a person. Like, yeah she loved him, but what I like about her decision to keep her scarf and kiss him while ending his life is that it represents that you can still have your genuine feelings about someone while still doing the right thing. I never really saw her necessarily "enslaved" to her love because her love has always been a choice - she chose to save him and look after him all those times, not because her blood but because she just cares for him just like Zeke pointed out to Eren. She also never did whatever Eren said, again she was constantly arguing against him many times, telling HIM what to do, etc - but her fear is what motivated her to make decisions to protect him. So when Kenny states at some point in the series "Everyone is a slave to something", in Mikasa's case I think her enslavement is fear. Also, I think she freed Ymir because she served as her antithesis, and Ymir again saw that she can still let go despite whatever feelings she had, because Ymir probably didn't think that those things being true at the same time was possible (very similar to what you pointed out about her low self esteem mindset within enslavement). I think Mikasa and Eren's time in paths led her to acceptance that there was nothing she could/would have done to have stopped her worse fears coming true, which was Eren's death. - I think it's important, within Ymir's attachment/"love" with Fritz, to point out that she had kids with him. I believe in the story it was also pointed out that she still wanted a way to connect with her offspring. I can imagine that having children with your abuser complicates feelings of "love", and that maybe "love" was her way of trying to make sense of her situation esp now that innocent children were involved (though as other's have pointed out, notice that Eren is the one calling it "love" - Eren already has a difficult time understanding and living out "love" reliably, so I wonder if he's the most reliable to just take at face value when it's likely more complicated than that). That's why I also think it's significant that Ymir's flashback regret was not letting Fritz die so that she can be with her daughters and stop their generational suffering then. You also see in the HSC end in the manga, when they are walking out the theater, Ymir and her 3 daughter together. I just think her children are such an important part of her attachment and her making meaning out of it , just like Mikasa and her scarf that symbolized her and Eren's bond and feelings. -I think Eren paradoxically a slave...I mean he says it himself, a slave of freedom (going back to "everyone's a slave of something). So I think it's meant to be open ended because I guess at the end of the day it goes back to the question of nature vs nurture, which is something heavily debated on in real life when trying to make sense of suffering inflicted by humans. I think in Eren's case, it alludes that he was born this way and he couldn't change things because he can't change himself (he can't stop his nature). I get that future memory stuff could maybe confuse this points, but I find it chilling that he saw his future self, what he was capable of doing, and was so allured by that which called him because at the end of the day that's what's in his nature...he just moved forward. I think there's also some messaging that he's a bit childish (similar with Ymir) when it comes to reverting to base desires and understanding of how the world "should" work. -I really like Eren's breakdown too. It was inevitable. I actually love his and Armin's convo (more in the anime lol but I got the point in the manga as well), because it's their last time together, but also Armin hones in on the point that Eren was always so busy looking forward that he never appreciated what he had until it's too late (i.e. his feelings for Mikasa and vice versa, his time with Armin and what he shell represented...Eren didn't even fully look satisfied when Eren and Armin were going through the various wonders they had dream going through together, despite having those dreams together for years). It's such a tragedy, but hence is the story of "The Attack Titan"!
I fully believe that Eren was never forced down this way via future memories. His future memories showed this because this is always what he wanted and he does admit this but he also tries to justify it by saying he tried to see if things would change and it didn’t work. One of those times being saving Ramsey despite knowing he would be crushed by the rumbling, but once again this is just what Eren is like. Just like the whole “I did this to make you heroes and make the world unable to crush Paradis”, it’s incredibly convenient. He made all these excuses in order to live with what he was going to and to “keep moving forward”. He said he tried to change all these things but he never tried to change the big ones….like not stopping the rumbling at Marley at the very least. He’s just full of excuses until that conversation with Armin where like Reiner was with him can finally admit, I was pretending this was for a noble cause but my motivation was always ultimately selfish but I couldn’t recognise that if I wanted to live with myself.
To me at least the future memories not only shoed the path to the ending we got but they had also had enough of gaps of information to gaslight Eren into believing there was no other choice. Example Ramzi just enough to know that he will save Ramzi and then he will crush him ending up with Eren having a meltdown in front of Ramzi and so on.
He did try to stop the Rumbling from happening tho. We forget it but by rewatching the flashback episodes we see Eren's evolution. He opposed it when it was first suggested, He hated it, despite seemingly knowing it would happen. He was all about trying to find other ways before following Zeke'S rumbling plan.When Hizuru came to help he was relieved. When Hizuru choked out he was disappointed. That's when he started meeting with Yelena and trying to accpet the Rumbling will happen. Then he goes to Marley, still in denial that he'll eventually kill them with the Rumbling. He sees Ramzi, tries to change the future by not saving him (which would then prove the Rumbling could also be avoided). But then he fails and succumbs to what he wants : saving the kid. This makes him realize that he'll also succumb to the pressure of doing the Rumbling eventually. Thus his breakdown and him trying to understand why he will do the rumbling. Plus in a way we could see Eren waiting with Reiner to hear Willy's speech was his last way of trying to avoid the violence and Rumbling path because he only attacked when they declared war. As if if Willy said something else such as `LET'S MAKE PEACE WITH PARADIS` then Eren would not have attacked. Once he attacked things unfold and if he stops moving forward with the rumbling it's gonna be even clearer Paradis is fucked thus why he didn't want to stop the Rumbling then.
@@matasblazauskas5859 Good point. Grisha did mention he saw something beyond the Rumbling and asked Eren if the Rumbling was the only way. Both Grisha and Eren kept moving forward to that something (Ymir's liberation and the end of the curse)
At then end of the video where you're discussing Eren's inability to change the future he is seeing, I always clung to his line in Armin's memories. He admitted he is just a fool with overwhelming power. I took this to me he was admitting HE couldn't find a better way to resolve the conflict, so the best he could do was use his power. Admitting this to Armin who has always been more tactical and creative in finding the best solution, who may have been able to use the power better. Eren in the end was just a fool with overwhelming power, and thought it was best to use it. He couldn't see a future that worked out better because he couldn't think of what he could change to lead to a better outcome.
@@mrrdirty6198 It kinda comes back around to Armin's line about needing to sacrifice something to change something. All possible futures were gated by the sacrifices Eren was willing to make, and we know his friends lives are not on that list. Eren would never know what's in those futures because he'd never open those gates. So it's less that he can't do something that hasn't already happened, and more nothing can happen that Eren wouldn't choose to do.
By then he only cared about ending the curse by freeing Ymir. That was his main goal. Plus the other options were mentioned in the story : only attack military bases and pass down the founding titan, sacrifying children again and again. Everything was a shitty option.
My interpretation is that Eren always had freedom. He had the freedom to run away with Mikasa, or to listen to Armin and do partial rumbling, or do anything else. When Eren said that he couldn't change the future, I think it's more that he was unwilling to change the future because ultimately it was still him that made the decision to go back and save the kid. Him saying that he can't resist the future is him not being able to resist his own desires, even if he contradicts himself.
I think Armin was trying to comfort Eren at the end. His expression while he's "thanking" Eren for commiting genocide reminds of when he was lying to Yelena about being on board with the euthanasia plan. I think he said that to comfort him and to also share his burdens
I'm glad to hear you enjoyed the series! I have some things to add that may or may not be of value but i thought i should mention them anyway: 1) I still believe that Isayama is such a brave writer for writing a character as important and as pivotal as Ymir without giving her a single line of dialogue and instead counting on the readers and viewers to pick up on the nuances of her character, decisions and actions completely based on the visual representation she gets. I personally firmly believe he did a wonderful job in this aspect as well as provide an entirely new experience to readers and viewers of the series who have to interpret all of Ymir's character simply based on her screentime. 2) Armin and Eren's scene in the paths comes off to me at least as Armin trying to give his best friend one last goodbye by shouldering his sins with him, even if Armin isn't the one directly responsible for the genocide Eren committed he still feels a sense of responsibility for being the one to give him that hope of an inhabited free world where they could roam free. I get that it might come off as "too sympathetic" for some people but i don't think it's a crazy thing for someone to try and give their best friend since childhood some peace of mind before he passes away entirely. Armin still held Eren accountable for his actions and he still called him for how ridiculously childish and stupid his view on freedom and the world, but that doesn't mean he can't also grant him one final proper goodbye. 3) The tree Eren got buried under was the same tree he napped under as a kid, it turned into the "Ymir Tree" centuries later as it kept growing as well as potentially having remnants of Hallu in Eren's head. 4) On Mikasa and Ymir i'll just put this here from a small document i wrote on some parts of AoT : Mikasa’s love for Eren was what allowed her to finally kill him, stopping him from continuing his atrocious act. Mikasa learns she could let go of Eren while still caring about him and loving him deeply without forgetting the kindness he showed her. Ymir on the other hand learns that she can let go of Fritz and that everything he had done was fundamentally wrong. We are shown a frame of Ymir holding her 3 children while Fritz is impaled by the spear she didn’t jump in front of, finally realizing that she did have a genuine connection and love with her 3 daughters. If she could do it all over, she would have let her abuser and oppressor die, and instead hold onto her daughters who she lost. 5) The final message of AoT can be summarized in one sentence: Just as conflict is an inevitability, so is the innate human desire to avoid it.
@Rowan_A_Boat the fact that you think "they lost" clearly shows your lack of understanding of the story in general. Go watch Code Geass and enjoy the simple story of good people vs bad people. Gray morality isn't something you can comprehend, apparently.
@@Rowan_A_Boat omg we got this naive child who thinks that the bombing happened because of eldia-marley conflict lol grow up ffs that happened because of completely different war
@@supermariobros2166 Who do you think I was referring to when I said "they"? Which part of your whole comment do you think I was responding to? Why do AoTards always cry about reading comprehension? Obviously because the only way to enjoy the series is to read so far between the lines that nothing you enjoy is part of the actual text of the series.
an explanation of the controversial Armin's "thank you". I honestly do not blame anyone for misinterpreting this line. this is just a perfect storm of japanese as a language requiring heavy context, the story being told in stilled pictures, and lost in translation (though actually, i also blame the egregious official mistranslation). let me start by saying that Armin DID NOT thank Eren for committing genocide, both in the manga and the anime. what he did was thanking Eren for "the little moments in life", tying back to his conversation with Zeke, and this is why he's holding the seashell and showing it to Eren. in the manga, the panels are set up like this: panel 1 - "Eren... thank you" Armin says as he holds up the seashell and Eren looks up at it; panel 2 - Eren looks surprised; panel 3 and 4 are the controversial lines from Armin. that 2nd panel is very important. it's a physical separation of Armin's "thank you" from the next lines he says. so it's actually "Eren, thank you (for the little moments in life, for the view of the sea, the dream of freedom, for the seashell, the thing that is actually in the panel)". FULL STOP. then, "you became a murderer for our sake. I swear I won't let the mistake you're making be in vain". it's not "Eren, thank you FOR becoming a murderer for our sake" so on so on. it's also worth noting that the word Armin used is not "mistake" (as in small, everyday mistake). the word he used is more like atrocity or sin. it's heavy and denouncing and full of regrets. so again, translating the word as "mistake" doesn't make sense, and with the nuance of the actual word that Armin used, it doesn't make sense that he's thanking Eren for committing genocide if he's denouncing it. all in all, Armin's lines is something like: "Eren, thank you for these little things. You became a murderer for our sakes. The atrocity you've committed, I'll ensure that the chance you've given us doesn't go to waste". this is why in the anime, as Armin hands Eren the seashell, he says "thank you for showing me this sight, this view outside the wall". which is just the original meaning/intention in the panels, but pulled from subtext into actual text in the anime. the seashell is a symbolism of freedom, the sea, the dream and the beauty of life. it calls back to the "little moment" when they first reached the sea and how happy Armin was to have that moment of achieving this dream with his friend. but while in that moment Armin tried to show Eren the seashell, Eren couldn't see it. he looked right past that "little moment", beyond the sea and saw only more cruelty and enemies. that's why this time, when Armin shows Eren the seashell again, Eren looks shocked because he finally sees it and realizes that "oh, it's always been here". while I do love the way Armin's lines are set up and expressed so beautifully in the manga panels, with the discord that followed, I'm glad Isayama leaned into anime as a medium to change the dialogues and make clear his intentions.
Thanks so much for this explanation! I've always defended this line because it's obvious what Armin is trying to say with context, but everyone who criticizes it just takes the dialogue at face value, but this makes it so much easier to defend this scene.
Excellent write up. To me E&A convo in 139 is what solidifies aot as a masterpiece, and it always moves me, specially eren's last line which was removed from the anime for some reason: "you can make it to the other side of the walls, humanity will be saved by you armin". It seems eren finally acknowledges armin has the mentality that will save humanity, and it does so in a 4th wall break "the other side of the walls". What we learnt in aot can be applied to our world. We will be saved by people like armin. The seashell panel appears again in focus.
The reason he couldn't change the future is because he couldn't change himself. he can't let go of his desire to destroy the world. That's why the future he saw will not change.
Thanks a lot Merphy for these great videos! It's my favorite piece of fiction, and I very much enjoyed your takes on it, and I'm certain I will revisit these videos. In return I'll commit to getting back to your favorite series next year, after falling off the One Piece wagon about 20 years ago while waiting for the next volume to come out. I don't want to take away from your interpretation; as Onyankopon might say, we're free to think what we want. But having sat with the ending for about three and a half years now and going through the story often both by myself and through discussion videos like this, I think both the anime and the manga version are excellent, even the controversial Armin dialogue. There's more going on here than is immediately apparent. For example, the "you became a mass murderer for our sake" line happens seconds after Eren admits that he didn't do it for their sakes but because deep down he wanted to do it. Armin is smart, not catching this would be very out of character for him, but stretching or outright breaking the truth is very much in character. There's also the "Thank you" - for what exactly? There's an obvious interpretation, but it's carefully worded (as far as I can tell with my limited but non-zero understanding of Japanese) to be ambiguous and allow for other takes. I can also completely understand wanting condemnation of Eren from at least someone in the Alliance. It would feel good, but I think it would go against the their central theme, which is coming to terms with one's own guilt. None of them get to feel sweet righteousness, because they are all terrible monsters themselves and know it. The story and its presentation takes the role of condemning Eren's actions; for the characters there's only conflictedness and sorrow. (Pieck is probably the one surviving character of the Alliance that has the weakest link to this overall theme, and her response is the easiest to interpret as an ironic barb). Anyway, I could talk about this for hours but it's already very long so I'll stop here. Thanks again for the great vlogs, and I'm looking forward to the final review and livestream (and also to Witch Hat Atelier).
Yep as a hardocre lover of the show the final episode to me on first watch was 7/10. That's nothing compared to the 10/10 of the rest. The reason is, despite loving and understanding quite well the symbolism of the story, the final episode is beautifully complexe. I still think it was a bit rushed and would have deserved like 10-20 minutes more, which doesn't help processing everything. But anyway despite this little complaint, the story is perfect per se but you need time to process it. So I remember how I felt I just watched like some 7/10 episode, but knew I had to rewatch. Then I slept on it. And It just clicked the more I thought about it. For instance details that change everything like when you understand that Miakasa saying Eren is in the mouth isn't her magically figuring it out but most likely Eren telling her. Beautiful. The confusion when you see Armin and Eren's last converdation that have you go WTFFF when is this happening. But on rewatch you get it all. Now the last episode is It's 9/10.
To me it never seemed like Armin felt shockingly betrayed by Eren besides maybe the very end, since he was always trying to figure Eren out despite disagreeing with Eren regardless
@@Rowan_A_Boat They are not because the point of the story is to be a peace agent even when all odds are against you. That's said by Nicolo `Escape the forest, or even if we can't at least try`` Fake pacifism is thinking peace actions will reward you with peace. True pacifism is peace actions despite knowing violence will come to you.
@@fs400ion I feel like there was a lot of interesting political maneuvering in the first half of the story that didn't go anywhere, & could've used that payoff, but I guess nobody cares about the politics, & they just want to see people die. 😮💨
i agree with you that some characters who used to be Eren's friends should've been firmly against him, but i love his scene with Armin (in the anime) and i wanna talk how i see it: in short: i think Armin's reaction is very in character, but in reality his feelings are way more complicated. he just set them aside because he doesn't consider his own feelings, but also to comfort his dying friend (since killing him wasn't an option). but afterwards i think he'll both grieve Eren's death, but also hate him at the same time, for abandoning and disappointing them all and for the insanely horrible shit he did. like imagine Armin the pacifist traveling around as an ambassador and seeing all the people that stayed alive but were affected by the Rumbling, hearing about different cultures, places, natural habitats that he would've been excited to see, but now it's like yeah it's all gone now, everything an empty field of footprints. AND the long-term implications for climate!! i think at that point climate change wasn't on anyone's radar yet, but it sure will be now lol, with Eren boiling a chunk of the ocean surface and demolishing forests/fields
Let me just correct you on climate change. It has more to do with the CO2 levels than just heating up the world. Eren's colossal titans, even if hot, are just temporary in the grand scheme of things. Climate change is about the greenhouse effect that happens with CO2 concentration in the air, trapping heat and PERMANENTLY increasing the global temp
I don't see Armin hating Eren but yeah it would make sense for him to be disapointed when he sees destroyed lands and affected people. But I don't think he would blame Eren. He'd rather put it on himelf as he himself commited some sins.
I think it was made pretty clear by Isayama (and in the anime) about why all his friends were not firmly against him. They recognize Genocide is wrong, but that scene in the forest with all past enemies and friends gathered to wait for the operation next day, they all confess or bring up the horrible things they have done to achieve their goals. Like Yelena said: there is no more beautiful phrase than to "Save the World." Armin blowing up Liberio killing hundreds of civilians and children, Jean shooting a thunder spear at a child, Reiner/Annie/Bertolt's crimes in the scout regiment, and even later, Connie killing a bunch of his friends and people he knew and being called Traitor. That's why I think they all seemed to understand Eren in some way shape of form. We don't necessarily see this kind of understanding from Pieck, Gabi, Hange or Levi.
@@fs400ion i don't really mean that he'd just hate eren, like that'd sum up his opinion on him post-canon. probably could've expressed myself better. more that he'll have really complicated feelings - eren will be both a beloved friend and someone he resents a lot at the same time. longer answer: firstly before s4 it seemed that eren admiring armin so much (and mikasa and their other friends counting on him, but especially eren) was doing _a lot_ for his self esteem. and in the beginning of s4, after armin lost that he came across as very disillusioned with everything he knew - he didn't believe anymore in this crumb of self-worth he used to have, his worldview, methods, etc. and at that point he was very capable of feeling resentment, like when he snapped at mikasa that one time. he regained some of his confidence and strength after the last talk with eren, i imagine that what helped here was finally understanding what the hell happened and that this sudden rejection by eren wasn't as much of a rejection as he thought, but i don't think he'll stay in this upward swing completely. i think some of the beginning of s4 vibe will come back. if eren stayed alive i absolutely believe it'd be possible for them to stay friends but it'd involve working through those hurt feelings, right. like armin took it hard. and we saw some of it in the paths convos, like armin being pissed at eren, but it'd take longer than that. and now eren's dead and there is still all of this unresolved stuff from before, plus the rumbling, and it has nowhere to go and no real possible resolution. and armin would absolutely would just try to ignore that it all affects him at all and move on, but that's not how human emotions work oh i also want to point out what they talked about in the paths convo. eren at the end shed his facade and talked about what he's feeling: he doesn't want to leave mikasa or any of them and die, that he feels like an idiot who by happenstance made everything worse for everyone, but that's not how armin operates and he never did. even when he showed a lot of emotion what he _said_ was how it doesn't make sense to do what eren did (/will do), that now the situation in the world is incredibly shitty, later on that he's going take on share responsibility for eren's actions. it feels like a lot of skirting around what he actually feels and not touching it. an exception i remember was when he said to mikasa that he's was the wrong person to bring back to life, but even then it doesn't feel like he'd accept any connection over that or let himself be reassured, unlike eren. sorry for the mini essay lol
@@akhiltrc9708 ..you know what, that's true. i liked it from the beginning, that even though they rightfully chose to kill him they all still loved him despite his numerous numerous faults, but thought that maybe it not being all of them would give a more well-rounded picture. but you're right, the way it is now makes sense. and hange and levi not necessarily feeling the same way is also a good point
And thats why i think eren was never free. Even if his unwillingness to change his belief is what fixed the events. I would argue that his belief,motivation rage and even his longing for freedom Was never his
Thank you so much I really enjoyed revisting this story with you. I have some thoughts Id like to share. To me the "plot twist" with ymir loving king fritz always made sense but I agree that something is missing. Mikasas and Ymirs story is very simular. I dont think what is keeping them both stuck with those men is love, eventhough I think both of them loved them. Mikasa was saved by Eren after her family was killed and he wrapped the scarf around her. I think that was the first moment after what happened that Mikasa felt save. After that she always connected that feeling at home with Eren. And when she grew older attraction was added as well. Since the world she lives in is so traumatic she clung to that moment with Eren. So she had something in this dark world that made her feel better and gave her purpose. Eventhough she is an Ackermann living in AOT is a nightmare. For her and all of Erens friends it must have been easier to rely on some Titanpower then to think of a solution for themselves and understand there will be no easy way out. There are many characters that have dreams to keep them going. This is a theme with Characters like Kenny and Erwin. But would Erwin really be happy if he reached the basement, I highly doubt that. And Kenny might have turned out an even greater monster if he could get the founder. Mikasa and Eren never had a chance of being together. Mikasa not letting go of Eren till her death fits with the cycle of war not ending either. Humanity has not truly learned their lesson yet, but hopefully learned something. I hope what I wrote makes at least some sense.
It has been a rollercoaster. I really loved this videos, hearing you thoughts on this anime / manga was really awesome. You make some wonderful reflections on the topics.
here is a list of things i think you misinterpreted or missed about the ending 1-eren wasn't using the ancient titans it was in fact ymir, and when her perspective on life changed bc of armin and zeke dialog she stopped controlling them for eren's wish 2-no one died before the worm came out bc ymir was trying to trap them in the paths essentialy (not killing them bc eren doesn't want that) 3-eren saying he wanted to make them herois was just an excuse, he didn't want to admite he wanted to flatten the world at first, did the same with mikasa when he described the situation completely erasing his wish for genocide 4-the cabin scene wasn't alternative reality like many believed, it's a place in the paths that eren created and pulled mikasa in when she was on falco's back at real time 5- that scene is supposed to be eren confession to mikasa, while mikasa always wanted to be with eren and definitely that was her wish, the one who made that scenario about running away is eren, it shows the change that happened btw the main character where eren shared armin's dream at the begining, but after everything happened and eren finally reaching the freedom and the view that he was obsessed with, he ended sharing mikasa's wish as his ultimate happiness, this change btw their dynamics happened throughout the series with eren slowly distancing himself from armin's dream of just seeing the ocean (it never mattered for eren) and him growing up on mikasa more in every section 6-mikasa isn't obsessed, the series never depicted her attachement to eren as something negative, wit studio with it's changes and additions being solely ''eren'' created this prespective on her, like i said that scene is literaly eren's confession that he always loved and wanted to stay with her his whole life, he even managed to do this and lived with whole 4 years in the paths, in fact that was isayama's way to execute mikasa and ymir final arc 7- for mikasa, that was supposed to show her ultimate freedom, in a series where everyone is purseuing their deams and being put in taugh situations bc of that wish and what they need to sacrifice to get, mikasa was quite the opposite. Mikasa values Eren's life but not his desires, Mikasa doesn't mind punishing him if he's the one who's wrong, Mikasa doesn't support Eren in his suicidal thoughts, Mikasa doesn't need her noble blood to raise her value( the opposite of ymir but her case need another essay so to another time) Mikasa doesn't protect Eren because she doesn't have her independence Rather, she protects him because she values his life Mikasa embodies pride through all these actions, she was never caged bc of her attachement to eren,while isayama wanted to slightly push that narative through ymir also thinking that, it was never the case if you look closely, her love for him was always depicted as something pure and beautiful 8-so with all this being said, what mikasa did was the ultimate sacrifice and act of freedom bc she essentialy sacrificed her happiness and her joy in life, ymir saw through mikasa that true love doesn't come from prioritizing her lover desire's, and true Freedom lies in getting rid of the restrictions imposed by your world, your environment, and by yourself. 9-the kiss is a reflection of ''this world is cruel yet so beautiful'' theme, it was the only they would have that kind of a moment since eren is only a head (great detail btw, eren is only a head bc he can't regenerate bc he somehow lost the will to live, it's one of the many things that show his duality where you could a part of him keep moving forward and appears as a child, and the other part being just a head inside his titan only sleeping wanting to be stopped) 10- at the end, nearly everyone got what they wanted, from jean and conny to even annie, they got that satisfying ending and finally found peace in their lives, except our heroin who to the very end kept losing, but she indorsed her final loss as her greatest pride ironicaly she is also the only one that stepped back from the stage when she was the hero who saved the world i trully think ymir plot point is the best element of the ending if you deep in it with your new prespective, and the final message of the story is depicted perfectly through the ending credit song lyrics
3 is a wild thing to say. Like, do you not get how that makes things worse? Whatever. It's difficult for me to understand the kind of people who can enjoy all the pointless torture in AoT
@Rowan_A_Boat it's not like he didn't like the idea He just didn't thought about it at first In his mind him killing all humanity will prevent them getting into more battles But since he knew they were going to stop him, which essentially will make them heroes isn't bad either He always tried to not show his true motives for the rumbling and rely on the ones that benefits his friends or the island And you could how that resorted in many awful events like hange and floch deaths I mean that was the structure of his final conversation ending up with him confessing his goal
I remember finishing the Harry potter books, but had no one to talk to about it so i came to TH-cam and discovered your channel, as I watched, listened to you talk about books you have read , I became curious on how you would feel, thonk, react to attack on titan. I kept scrolling through your channel, then to my luck you added mangas and anime to your reviews 😶🌫️ I said to myself "so you telling me there's a chance?" Kept watching and waiting, my patience and commitment was rewarded when you announced you were about to start aot(then watch you toss the manga off the table to the floor 😅) i watched your reviews then ravings i was so excited.......here we are. Thank you ❤ Thank you to your subscribers who supported you and recommended aot to you, Thank you Isayama 😊
This has been a wonderful vlog series. Thank you for sharing your rambles and ravings with us. It's been such a journey. I'm sad it's come to an end but I'm happy you finally watched/read this series. See you in the final review
I just watched the anime for the first time (not knowing you were also watching it) and finished it a couple of weeks ago. It's been great to see your journey since I just went through the same myself. I personally loved every aspect of the series including the ending. I do think Eren had more freedom than he thought and he admits that maybe he was just the wrong person. But that may be me thinking of it in terms of how things work in Dune where Paul and Leto II took prescience to different outcomes.
I really liked the conversation between Eren and Armin. Especially with the additions from the anime of Armin choosing to shoulder Eren's burden because he put the idea of the outside world in his head. He showed him that book that held all of the things that Eren wasn't allowed to see because they lived inside what was essentially a cage. And that lit a fire inside of Eren that never went out. Armin saw the sea and was happy that his goal in life was finally fulfilled. But Eren couldn't focus on that. He'd already seen the sea due to his father's memories. He'd already seen the future due to kissing Historia's hand. And he began a march towards freedom. No matter how many lives were trampled on. One of Mikasa's early lines in the story is that, "This world is cruel. But also very beautiful." And that line gets repeated by herself when she's fighting Annie, by Bertolt when he's about to transform for the final time, and when Erwin is giving his final charge. But every time the line is repeated we only focus on the fact that the world is cruel. There is no mention of beauty. Which feels very much like the difference in how Eren and Armin see the world. Armin sees the ocean and the outside world and that's beautiful to him. He sees the cruelty of the world but wants to believe some form of understanding can be reached. But Eren sees only the cruelty. He feels only disappointment when he learns that the outside world isn't like how it was in Armin's book. He feels disappointed when everything plays out as they did in his future memories. Armin understands that. And that's why he offers Eren comfort in their final moments together. To the boy who sought freedom, goodbye.
I think we are aligned with Eren. I'm saddened when I see people hating on Eren. He's such a great character with great human qualities, despite his flaws. The rumbling was terrible, it was a mistake. But it doesn't make Eren a monster. Eren is a representation of nature (bird/tree symbolism) and Mikasa's moto : cruel yet beautiful. The first one who hated what Eren became and did... is Eren himself. RIP Eren.
So glad you enjoyed this series Merphy! Since I first subscribed and you started getting into manga/anime I've been anticipating when you would get into Attack on Titan. Still an absolute favorite.
'The world is cruel but beautiful' This is the phrase which is shown beautifully in the post credit scene , yes war is back because thats just the human nature . Erwin said this 'Conflict will only stop until there is only one person left' Now the beauty of it is shown in the last boy scene with a dog He is wearing a scarf - Scarf symbolizes love , warmth which ymir didnt had any He is with a dog - a companion a friend ymir didnt had any and also she was chased by dogs Also the worm is inside the tree , THERE ARE NO BUTS ITS JUST SIMPLY THERE and the proof is shown that how its surroundings was destroyed but the tree somehow survived and continued to grow regardless The worm as called by zeke is 'LIFE' Life gives and takes The worm in the basic sense is an organism so it needed shelter and in return it gave the tree STRONG BODY to survive and prosper Life wants to divide itself even further and that is why it left the tree because a human is a better host than the tree Ymir wanted to escape and so in return the worm granted her a strong body
it wasn't a problem to say that thing was a god like being. it's just that people tend to associate god with the christianity idea of what a god is. japanese gods are fundamentally different, and that's closer to what that thing might be. some form of yokai, or great spirit.
Hi Merphy, I just wanted to clarify. From my understanding, Eren wiped the memories of not just Armin and Mikasa, but everyone, including Jean, Conny, and Levi. I'm not sure if Reiner and Annie were affected, but Pieck specifically mentioned in the anime that she wished she had a final conversation with Eren, like the others did. Also, you mentioned wanting some people to have been more decisive about killing Eren. Levi and Hange never had doubts; they were saddened by how things turned out, but that was it. Annie and Reiner never hesitated either, which is understandable. Only Mikasa, Armin, Jean, and Conny had reservations, but I think their feelings were entirely justified.
Okey but Ymir didn't trully love king Fritz to begin with. Nor she lived always as a slave. She knew what freedom was. But she was never loved by anybody and thought that serving and being a slave to someone was the only way, for her, to be loved. I think it's Armin who said that, and it was hinted through a picture when Ymir watched a couple kissing, that Ymir wanted to be loved by someone. No matter what the king did to her, he gave her attention. And she thought it was love.
exactly the king gave her attention, made her his wife and also i think treated her daughters right because we see in the end that his daughters were willingly in eating their own mother ( they had to ....they had no choice because if eldia empire is without a titan they could be easily defeated ) she wanted an unattainable love just like how eren wanted an unattainable freedom and thats the whole reason eren and ymir understood each other on that level
@@drjank6667 True that's exactly what i was talking about. She is seeking conncection. But connection means love, whatever the nature of this love. it can be friendship, romance or something else.
@@vincentvieille5996 Sure, but I generally think it's better to stick closer to the original text where possible, that's why I gave it. "She wanted to be loved" and "she wanted connection" are similar, but there's also differences. In particular, it's easier to take a narrow reading for "be loved", but "connection" is always wider.
@@drjank6667 In this case, it's connection with humans. It's either connection of hate of connection of love. And love is wider than just romance. When i said she wanted to be loved by King Fritz, it doesn't necessarly means that she wanted to have romance love with King Fritz. She just wanted to be loved, in general. Loved by parents, by children, by friends ... Connection with people is either love or hate. There are no others type of connection between people. And i doubt it's hate in the ways it's done. That's why saying she wanted to be love is a fact. As a matter of fact, every human being want to be loved.
I hardly got through the start of season 3, it just didn't work for me. But I've watched and listened to each one of your videos, gotten to know the show through you. And now I have the context and lore behind the scenes and memes that I see online, thank you for making these videos and letting us follow in your journey!
Does anyone else see a poignant parallel between Mikasa and Rose from Titanic? Rose loved Jack after just a couple of days together, holding onto that love for decades. Similarly, Mikasa spent only 4-5 years with Eren, yet she died with his scarf around her neck. Both women had loving husbands and caring families after their relationships, but neither seemed able to move on from their first, brief love. I would have appreciated a portrayal of Mikasa visiting Eren's grave without the scarf over time, eventually stopping and being buried elsewhere. This would have aligned with Attack on Titan's themes of realism, illustrating how people can move past their first loves, no matter how impossible it feels in the moment. The fact that Mikasa was buried with Eren's scarf suggests she never truly got over him, which is heartbreaking not only for her but also for her husband, children, and family.
It's interesting that Ymir loved King Fritz so deeply that she sacrificed herself to protect him. It seems she recognized their toxic relationship and wanted to escape it. Initially, I viewed Ymir as one of the weakest characters in anime-possessing god-like power yet choosing to remain a slave. The revelation of her love for King Fritz made sense in a twisted way; she was the ultimate victim of Stockholm Syndrome. Even in life, she acknowledged this by not healing herself, and in death, she waited 2,000 years for Eren and Mikasa before finally erasing Fritz's legacy. I believe Isayama missed an opportunity by never humanizing King Fritz; if he had shown even one moment of his humanity, it might have made Ymir's love more understandable. Still, Founder Ymir remains incredibly disappointing!
Hi Merphy! Watching your vlogs has been so satisfying. I remember commenting on one of your videos a few years ago when this was still a book channel (it was probably a video about morally gray characters lol) that you should watch AoT, so I'm so happy you finally did! I did want to share how I interpreted Ymir and Mikasa. I always thought that Ymir and King Fritz's relationship was a foil to Mikasa and Eren. Ymir "loved" King Fritz, but her concept of love was essentially obsessive, supporting someone no matter what, no matter how terrible they are to you or others, etc. But Mikasa was always the opposite of that. I personally never thought she was obsessed with Eren (he was definitely lying to her about the whole Ackermann curse). She loved Eren, but her love didn't mean following him no matter what. This was why she wasn't happy with Louise becoming a Jaegerist in her name, and how she criticized Eren killing civilians in Liberio. By killing Eren, she showed Ymir that truly loving someone is being able to let them go and holding them accountable (I think you got this part on the nail). Mikasa's dialogue with Ymir, about her love being a long nightmare kind of showed this. Mikasa is probably one of my favorite characters of all time so I feel really strongly about this haha. I highly highly recommend watching all the OVAs of the series before making all your final thoughts. The Lost Girls P2 OVA that focuses on Mikasa actually clears up so much about her character and the super key theme about grieving someone you love. Please please watch it if you can. I personally loved this direction that Isayama took, because so many people always described Mikasa as obsessive when she is such a caring, loving character to all her friends, not just Eren. It always made sense to me that she held onto him so tightly, because she lost everyone else in her family and he was all that was left. It's such a thoughtful depiction of grief and love and what it means to be free (not sure if you caught this symbolism, but Falco's wings forming the Wings of Freedom behind Mikasa while she's fighting for all her friends! and also her dialogue is a really nice parallel to her speech in the Trost arc, but here she is defending her friends rather than thoughtlessly leading them into danger). Also (sorry this comment is becoming so long) but on the time travel note. From my understanding, Eren didn't know he would be stopped until he actually received the founding titan. Thus, I don't think his end goal was being stopped until the Rumbling was already set into motion, it just doesn't line up with how he was acting. There is a video that explains the whole logic of all this and how the time travel worked much better, it was called: this video will change how you see eren. Loved seeing all your thoughts on this series :).
@@Rowan_A_BoatThat is such an insanely difficult question. If I am forced to choose only one, it'd be the two episodes where Gabi, Falco, Niccolo, and the Brauns were in the restaurant. That episode made me realize the unfathomable amount of work Isayama did on plotting, worldbuilding, and characterwriting. In that episode, numerous things, for a few moments, culminated into a crescendo. After that, I kept seeing the incredible plotting work everywhere, where everything just seems to connect perfectly. It's brilliant.
Thank you! I agree 100 % with your reasoning for erens dissapointment. He allways knew that byond the walls there will be freedom, the ocean is freedom, but then the ocean became another wall between him and his enemys that want to kill him, nothing changed wich is why he couldnt be happy about the ocean in the end of seasone 3. There was no freedom beyond the walls, only more suffering, and that made him dissapointed
@@Rowan_A_Boat i agree with you, i didnt like the ending myself, but hearing merphy say that felt validated for a moment that im not crazy with how i interpreted the story myself, another person saw that too
@@AM17titan hey! Yes, he did something but i belive that it is more in character for him to say this: I wanted to do 100 % rumbling but you menaged to stop me, i did it to protect us from certian death, and nothing but this will make sure that we will not die by the hands of people that are not our own, whether you stoped me or not that was my intention. Thats how i saw erens character, but then the 80 % plan happened and it didnt make sense to me, i will also never belive that eren will kill his mother. There was a perfectly good reason for why dina passed bert. She promised to find grisha before she turned, and because of her royal blood, it lead her to the closest place he was, his home and then what happened happened. Him killing his mom cheapened that moment from a tragedy to a shock value So ya, those are my opinions. After all that, its still my opinion and you have yours, but i really felt cheated by those moments to erens character
Look up for a video called: eren is (not) free. Its a Great video about how Time worked in AOT, from a “rules” for the ability perspective, the mindset of the characters still gives a lot of space for healthy speculation and that is great but clarity about the “time travel of information” is always welcomed
01:05:15 It's not made clear, most is implied, but the way I interpret it is that Eren lost a lot of autonomy once he fused with Ymir, because that was what happened, Eren never had the power of controlling Ymir because he has no royal blood, but because his deepest desires and those of Ymir's could become aligned he was able to reach her and become one with her, because all Eldians are to an extent part of Ymir, but once that happened he was no longer in full control of his actions, that's why he couldn't reverse the Titans in Paradis back to humans or prevent the deaths of his people during the walls coming down, because Ymir had no interest in any of that, and it's also why Ymir was constantly shown watching as all the carnage was going on. But that was why he felt so guilty over the destroying 80% of humanity despite not being in full control, because in order to reach Ymir a part of him needed to want that, a childish desire to destroy this ugly World that caused them so much pain, that's why he said a part of him wanted this, because a part of him did. Also, despite not being in full control of the Rumbling once Ymir and him fused, before that Eren was in control and knew beforehand what was going to happen, and still chose that path.
Wrote this up real quick 'cause I'm kinda in a hurry. I'm interested in what you wanted Armin to do in that scene between him and Eren. It seems that you wanted Armin to pass judgement on Eren and to be done with him but I don't think that would make sense for Armin. Especially when he's talked about how much wrong he himself has done. I think when Eren brought Armin to that place and explained to him EVERYTHING that was going on, Armin listened like a true friend. And he DID get upset. When Eren told Armin that he'd killed 80% of the human population, Armin showed his dislike towards that. But I think Armin realized a few things while he was there. One being how much Eren was suffering mentally and emotionally from all of this. Two, how alone Eren was during all of this. How he didn't feel he could confide in anyone. (which is always the saddest part for me.) Three, that all of this was for them. To save them. And four, that this was Eren's way of laying it all out before he died. That his time was up. There really wasn't much reason for Armin to lay into him during their last moments together. Instead, I think Armin just wanted to give Eren some comfort and peace of mind before he died. And I think that's the right thing to do for someone you've been friends with since you were children. Passing judgement on someone during their finals moments just doesn't feel right to me. Now, if this was Levi who Eren had brought in and had the same interaction with, I'm sure it would of been quite different. Lol.
Yep. It's not that "you think." You are correct -- your writeup is the only correct way to interpret the scene. Anything else stems from a misunderstanding of the context and characters.
I'm really glad you loved the series so much! I get where you're coming from on that Armin scene. I don't feel the same way about it, but I can definitely see how it can come across as too sympathetic towards Eren. It's one of those things where just one more line from Armin probably could have fixed it.
One thing about the ending that a lot of people comment on is that they think that it was all for nothing, because the cycle seemingly repeats again, but I think that there is great value in achieving small pockets of peace. What Eren did was morally wrong and it was completely inexcusable, but I think that he did achieve something meaningful for his friends. I think that Eren's character is fascinating, because we completely disagree with what he did and yet we also completely understand how someone like that would become evil and do the things that he did for the sake of his friends.
57:23 That's what's like reading the bible, "2/3 of humanity is gonna be wiped out but that's fine, it's God's plan and the survivors will bow to the God of the Chosen Ones in the holy land".
Just found your channel this morning, looking forward to catching up! FWIW, I share your interpretation of Ymir's "Thing in the Water", hallucigenia solely used as the basis of the character design. A god-like origin of the Founder - absolutely logical!
I think the scene where he saves Ramzi from being mugged is the real explanation for Eren's agency in this. It's not so much that he's locked into a path its that he can't resist his own instincts and thats for the better when saving Ramzi and for the worse when releasing the wall titans that will trample him. In the end his conviction and strong will trap him into the events because while it's awful what happens its his goal. Its not about "he cant change it even if he wanted to" its "nothing will fully make him not want to". In my opinion anyway
About the Armin scene: I think there is a lot of guilt that Armin feels about the situation and that's why he still feels sympathetic towards Eren. Eren (especially S1 Eren) gets mischaracterized as a hot headed idiot a lot but remember for example the scene when he woke up from transforming into a titan for the first time and the scared military dude had canons pointing at him, Mikasa and Armin. Eren in that short time made up a plan how he was gonna get out of this situation and run to the basement and told the two of them but in the end he basically said ''Armin I trust you 100% if you can come up with another plan I'll thow mine out the window and do whatever you say'' and that ended up happening. Then later in S1 in the forest where Annie was chasing him and the Levi squad again, Eren thought it was a better move to turn around and fight her in titan form with the squads support but everyone else begged him to trust in them and to keep running. Only Levi said he doesn't know what the correct answer is and maybe Eren is just right and they should fight. We know how this ended, the whole Levi squad died and Eren ended up regretting his decision to trust his comrads. I think this is a vital formative scene for Eren and it comes back later in S3 part 1 when they are in the chrystal cave while Rod Reiss is transforming into a titan. Levi says he regrets to have to ask this of Eren again but he has to make the decision to trust in himself and use the hardening ability to save them all. Even after all that Eren in later parts of the story joins the group at the political meeting happening right before he left them to infiltrate Marley to see if they can maybe work out a deal unlike what he saw in his future visions, he still basically asks Mikasa if she loves him and she tells him she just sees him as family just as he saw in the future visions and Armin/Hange and the gang had years to come up with a plan that is a good alternative to the rumbling and euthenasia plan but when Hange confronts Eren in the jail cell and he asks her desperately '''please Hange if you have a better plan fucking tell me right now'' and she has nothing for him. So he makes his choice and starts the rumbling to finally flatten the world and get a view unobstructed by walls. Armin and the others at the end of the day didn't really leave Eren with a better choice and bc of all the stuff that happened in the past it makes sense for Eren's character to do what he ended up doing and he even acknowledges that with the ''I'm just an idiot'' line. Eren realized he was just some random guy who somehow ended up with a lot of power that he wasn't mentally prepared to wield correctly and I think Armin knows that and sympathizes with it and it's not really like he sees a different person in front of him than the one he knew all along.
2 things I forgot to mention: 1. The most traumatic event in Eren life was obviously his mom dying and when Hannes died in front of him in the same way we see that the thing Eren can't stand the most and has a breakdown over is not changing from that moment and not being able to do anything about it when the people that he love get killed brutally so it makes even more sense that he'd start the rumbling when he actually has the power to protect his loved ones and 2. Armin had a mini version of this same arc in S3 part 1 when he killed a human for the first time when he did it to save Jean. Afterwards he threw up in the river saying the girl he killed probably wasn't a bad person or even a better person than him and he only killed her because she was part of an opposing group with different ideals (just like Eren) but later Levi thanks Armin for doing it bc that is the reason Jean ist still alive(sound familiar? Thanking someone for killing for the sake of their group? Just saying). Jean then goes on to say thar next time he won't hesitate either and make the right decision but Levi stops him and says he never said that what they are doing is necessarily right proving once again that he is a goated character xD
You should do a collab with Rogerbase since you both enjoy this series so much it would be really interesting to see you two pick each other's brain about it as a whole.
I believe that the discussion on what exactly is "Life" is an ongoing conversation. Meaning, that this organism can perfectly be a god or a part of God. I also had mixed feelings with Armin's conversation with Eren, but overall I feel the very same way and I am thankful for this series to exist and also for you to have reviewed it and enjoyed it as much as you did Merphy! Thanks for your rumblings on the rumbling! 😆
I think this is a series that's a lot more enjoyable and interesting when you come to with your own theories and seeing how close you are by the end as opposed to having people correct you or push back on your theories when they have context you don't. AoT is a series that doesn't necessarily explain things and leaves a lot to your own interpretation. I've never heard the hallucinogenia theory, and to me, your deity theory is just as valid.
"leaves things to your own interpretation" meaning it never had any intrest in the themes it discussed & just used them as shiny jangling keys, as though saying the word 'division' could make someone a mathematician.
Hallucigenia is not a theory. It's just the real animal Iseyma was inspired for to create this parasite/ deity or everything you want to believe. Its form is the same. What it symbolizes, it's up to you to chose. But It's a real animal from our world that existed when continent were about to appear out of the sea.
I have different sentiments on the aspect of love. I think we evangelize the idea of love to be the pure, almost the ideal of what should be morality but… I really love this aspect that love can be slavery. That a slave can love their owner and that’s how sadistic love can be as well. Abusers love their victims, and victims love their abusers. That’s why breaking free from that love is the final straw in order to move through something as horrific as the rumbling. Because Eren is annihilating the world because he loves his people, love can be genocidal as well. Anyways, just enjoyed that he stood firm on that and used Mikasa as a vehicle of what it requires to be free from love.
Good point, and this more nuanced take on the idea of 'love' is something that struck me as well in AoT's finale. Though I would phrase it as "break free from slavery to love" rather than breaking free from that love itself - Mikasa still loves Eren to the end after all, and in my view Mikasa's central realization (and by extension, Ymir's) is that she can kill Eren without this negating her love for him, in fact that she has to kill him precisely because she loves him and always will.
Oh the timeline thingy is actually very easy to understand, it kinda like a loop. Because Eren is destined to be the one that free Ymir, the Attack Titan was born to fulfill that. The closer generation to Eren, the holder get a clearer vision of what Eren eventually see. It is his prison, the Attack Titan is his cell and he become the slave to "freedom"
Well, there is controversy, but it's mostly superficial tbh. It's a masterpiece imo, change my mind. My take on Eren is that he's a slave of his own desire and ideals of freedom. Remember what Kenny said: "Everyone is a slave to something". Eren is a slave of freedom, forcing himself to search for that ideal and to become everyone's enemy because of it. He could've changed anything at any time, but if Eren has the Founder's Titan at all it means he didnt change, he never changed anything, because he kept following his own desires and his own morals. Ultimately he was destined to repeat the same actions every time because that's what he wants, tht's what he always wants.
I bawled like a baby when I saw Jean and Cony sitting side by side, resigned to becoming Titans. It was the only time I shed a tear during AOT. I was devastated by the loss of the Levi squad and numb with grief when Armin "died," but that scene with Jean and Cony hit me unexpectedly hard, leaving me a mess for half an hour. After some time, I managed to pull myself together and finish the series. I thought the ending was good, though not perfect. As you mentioned, you might want to dock half a point or even a full point, but that would still leave AOT with a score of 9 or 9.5.
Associating that worm or "the source of all organic life", with hallucinogenia is interesting and obviously is what inspired the shape of the creature, but it doesn't go beyond that.
Hallucinogenia fits perfectly with how Titans actually work. Titan powers come from inside the nape/spine of the shifter and from a mysterious elecrical charge. So it's only fitting to Hallucinogenia, who literally looks like a severed human spine, through which our nerves run electrical impulses. Thirdly, with Hallucinogenia we finally have an answer to what the world of the paths is and how are all Eldians connected. If Hallucinogenia attached itself to Ymir so it would be able to multiply, it only makes sense why Eldians all carry Founding Titans/Ymir's genes. Hallucinogenia multiplies like a sexually transmitted disease, its cells are spread out into every single Eldian from birth but are not awakened unless they are stimulated with a spinal fluid of a titan, or, in other words, already awakened Hallucinogenia cells. The reason why only 9 titan shifters are able to willingly control the state they are in, is because 3 daughters of Ymir did not merely inherited non awakened Hallucinogenia cells from birth, but actually ATE hallucinogenia worm itself which was attached to Ymir's spine. Later their children also ate their spines, because that's what king Fritz demanded, and so original Hallucinogenia worm, which is literally like a hive mother to all Eldians who possess its spread out cells, was spread evenly between 9 individuals, and is passed throughout generations by eating. The founding titan is simply the Eldian which possesses the biggest piece, or the head of Hallucinogenia. This is how Eren had it in its spine when he and Zeke made contact, it was there all along and in Griesha/royal family before that. And the hive mother Hallucinoenia - the founding titan is what connects all its cells and titan shifters, just like a bee hive mother is connected to all the bees. And when an Eldian dies, Hallucinogenia collects back its multiplied cells, and since they are situated in the spinal cord of a human, it collects conciousness and memories of those they belonged to. This is how Eldians end up together in the world of the paths, which is simply the nervous system of the original Hallucinogenia.
@@MrRenanHappy yea ik but we dont know what that worm is called and its widely spread over the internet that even though its wrong when you say ' hallu' you kind of get that he/she is talking about the worm
You know, the most impactful moment of the finale for me when I finally saw it adapted was the way the chorus of the dogs kicks in when we get to Levi sending off all his dead comrades. I remember crying my eyes out as it sang “Do you believe that we can kill them all?” And I cried “YOU DID YOU ALL DID IT!!” As the realisation of the end of the titans hit me like a tonne of bricks. Now I will say, the tree at the end is open to interpretation but for me I see it as a juxtaposition to Ymir. Ymir hunted by dogs stumbled into this place out of fear and it led to centuries of atrocities. Here though we have a little boy with his pet dog, curious checking out the tree willingly. If there is some hallucingenia there I like to believe it will give him a power much more hopeful and kinder to the world.
AOT is one big case study of how cruel the world is. The fact that paradis did experience some decades of peace but the cycle of violence continued and after millena the world where Titans have now became myths, Eren friends have now long forgone and became history of past , the haunting reminder of humanity's nature being witnessed under the tree right where Erenis burried is tragic. As Erwin said Humans will continue to fight each other until the day one human lives.
Well I hope my following opinions help, this my opinionsnotfacts.......People forget the language barrier Ramzy (the kid Eren saved) didn't understand what Eren was sayingbwhen he wws apologizing and crying, hence went to tell his grandpa about a man who saved him and was crying, so he brought drinks to thank him, so yeah the mental and emotional prison king fritz placed her in(th3 paths) could be a coping mechanism to tell herself she was loved, alternatively Eren interprets Yimir's memories and emotions as love, that was Wrens opinion not wht actually is. Eren saying he is an idiot, is a metaphor for fighting one's nature knowing it is horrible, like giving into your guilty pleasures knowing very well you shouldn't. Eren crying and being "pathetic" is a teenager at his breaking point, having generational rage and memories with so much power, you get that much power with that much influence and memories he gets overwhelmed sometimes when people are overwhelmed they just want throw everything away and watch the world burn. The gang being hang on Eren, feels just right they grew up on an island during their influential years of course they would struggle balancing emotional relations and global politics I think if the screenwriters added Eren's chat with Annie, Connie, Jean amd Reiner it would help show the viewers how jumbled his mind actually is, because he has so much going on. Ps. This is just my interpretations
It was so fun watching you experience the show for the first time. Im so happy that you can still love the series eventhough the series had its few problems in the finale :D
In the anime, the voice of the baby that is passed down is done by the son of the Eren's japanese voice actor, Yuki Kaji, and yes, it's a baby too. It adds a lot of symbolism if you think about that.
Totally other thing, but I like the different take on freedom from Eren vs Luffy. Luffy is like the kind of god you'd want to worship, who gives freedom and liberation to all, while Eren is like a wrathful god, giving or taking freedom based on his own judgement
Found your channel via these rambling videos, thanks for the good content. I watched the anime for the first time this past spring with friends and I had the same opinions about Ymir’s character motivation. I thought the author did a fantastic job of building a tragic character with Ymir. Pro-Eldians revere her as this founding hero for their nation, Anti-Eldians see her as an actual devil. In reality we saw she is a frightened little girl, forced into slavery, sold out by her peers and hunted down to be killed by Fritz’ men only to be “saved” by becoming a titan (which is probably horrible, especially for a little girl). She is then STILL used as a slave by Fritz, not only now in war but also sexually. After she dies she is still not granted freedom and it is revealed that all of the goofy titan characters we have been laughing at for the entire series is actually because Ymir is forced to toil for eternity at the coordinate, stuck as a slave forever. I thought Eren’s whole shtick about “freedom” worked so well because it meant freeing Ymir, him saying to her “you are not a god, you are not a slave, you are just a person” and her crying was so well done. The rumbling being the way for this scared girl to let out an eternity of rage against the world. Just for them in the 11th hour to say it was for love? I couldn’t believe it. It does not ruin the series for me but oooof, I do not understand the reasoning behind that choice.
Love that one Marleyan airbase commander. "You know in hindsight, this is kinda on us."
I get what the scene was trying to do but it felt kinda unnatural to me. Everyone we see from marleys military is so fixated on the idea of eldians being devils ready to destroy the world as soon as they get the chance (as that’s how they were raised), and once Eren proves them right (from their pov) all of a sudden he gets a spiritual awakening to understand both sides. Maybe if he was a reoccurring character throughout the time skip with a built up change of heart it would work better.
@@ozren8917 Yeah but it's not inconsistent per se, because seeing he's an old guy he must have gotten much experiencem and he probably was already getting uncertain. Plus we saw it through Magath that some did evolve. Some argued that Magath should have had that role. I agree in a way but Magath dying with Shadis was perfect. And a Muller character was perfect for the ending. So I guess it's fine. It would have been perfect if the dude had appeared once before like in the Liberio raid and just looked really unsure about Marley's decisions.
Or we can just see it as well yeah in front of death you realised you fucked up. That's pretty much what all major characters were going through in the final arc. Questioning their life choices and what truly matters to them.
@ yeah we can make assumptions on it but i would simply like it being explored more. Magath got to talk and cooperate with people of paradis to understand them. While this is a guy we see for the first time looking at the propaganda he was fed for his whole life coming true and only then breaking away from it? Like it makes sense from our pov but i really struggle to understand it from his (because again we don’t even know the character himself, we can only look at him through the general image of marleys military that we have which wasn’t shown to have any real outliers).
@@ozren8917 Yeah he's a narratively very conveniant character that serves the plot and that makes him feel less natural. Serves a great purpose narratively but considering the lack of exposure he can't be considered a great character. Still like him tho.
@@ozren8917
Every organization will eventually have its dissenters. Even military authoritarian countries. There will always have people who wonder if they’re the bad guys no matter the brainwashing.
Some cool visual symbolism surrounding Eren's Founding Titan form and how it reflects how he's not truly free and is actually trapped by his own nature.
1. His titan form's massive ribcage is essentially just a massive cage like the metaphorical one he's been trying to escape this whole series.
2. The front of his titan looks a lot like a marionette puppet being held up by strings, showing how even know his actions are still being manipulated by his future memories.
3. Because the wall titans moved with him when he began the Rumbling, it means that despite doing all this to escape past the walls and see the outside world, he technically never really escaped past the walls. They moved with him, keeping him trapped behind them even after unlocking Godlike powers.
4. When Kid Eren is soaring above the clouds shouting "Freedom!" as he enacts the Rumbling. In the manga you see that the supposed clouds below him aren't actually clouds, that instead it's the mass amount of hot steam trails being emitted from the Rumbling. Being a clear visual representation of how false the sense of freedom Eren is experiencing in that scene really is.
I think what's truly interesting is that this is all being told via a manga or anime. It's all predetermined, and every time we experience it, eren is forced to live the same hell again and again. I personally think there is a lot of symbolism to sisyphus and the boulder. Eren literally carried the boulder, there is an implied timeloop In the story, and finally Erwin's final speech and armins conversation with zeke sound very absurdist. Even if eren and friends are doomed to an eternity of torment, the small moments of peace given to them by rebelling against the very predetermined nature of a manga grants them small moments of peace Whether it's running in the wind, passing a ball back and forth, or wrapping a scarf around someone, the fact that they can do it again and again forever might also be a blessing
It's very interesting that he's trapped in a Bootstrap paradox, supposedly that only he can be trapped in. Bcs he is the Attack Titan, meaning, the whole reason it fights for freedom throughout the ages is just because of Eren, it's final and complete user.
@akhiltrc9708 which is why he says he is too stupid to find a better way. He thinks that someone smarter could figure out a way around the paradox. He is left only able to make marginal improvements. He is only there to save Mikasa because Eren Kruger talked about them to Grisha, and that day, Grisha decided to introduce Eren to Mikasa. So Mikasa doesn't get saved until, at some point, her abilities are triggered. It's also possible that Armin and Eren aren't friends as children leaving Armin alone and bullied.
@@acendiatmedia8747 I don't think that's how paradox's, especially bootstrap work. You can't smart your way out.
@mrrdirty6198 oh I don't think you can but Eren probably wouldn't know that.
I cry every time when people start passing that baby back from the cliff. There's nothing that can be done, and yet they do what they can. The best part of the indomitable human spirit in action.
Nothing can’t be done? Maybe don’t genocide and try to reason? All the major decision are left to kids. Terrible anime and vision it tries to show
@@badmanjosh6091 English isn't my first language so correctly if I'm wrong but I thing what @Merith89 mean is that in the moment the people were being chased by thousands of colossal titans and in front of them a cliff. In that moment where nothing they could do, no hope since behind them there are titans and in front of them a cliff, despite that they still tried to save the little baby
@@badmanjosh6091 imagine being loud AND wrong lmaooo
Yes, it is the kind of cheap, tear-jerking that works.
And then that Marley baby grew up to hate Eldians, for what Eren did to his mother, which leads to that baby future grandchildren to be responsible for the destruction of the island.
"I'm still trying to understand how much freedom Eren truly had" - Congrats Merphy; you are 90% of the fanbase. Welcome! 😂😂
"everyone had to be drunk on somethin' to keep pushing on... Everyone was a slave to somethin'" - Kenny
It is my belief that Eren truly had the freedom to do what he wished. What stopped him was his beliefs. I think it's a fact that time is fixed, and yet also Eren was truly free. He could just see into the future, but he couldn't change it because he himself wouldn't change his behavior. All these things would lead to Paradis being destroyed. He said he tried it many times. To change the way events unfolded. It wasn't times magic hand thwarting him. It was what he himself was willing to allow to happen. He could've changed things, but the results wouldn't fall under the parameters he established. So he couldn't change things. It's a catch 22. So he was trapped by his beliefs, a slave to freedom. The freedom of his friends and his people. At least, to his understanding. A garden variety idiot who got hands on power. The only solution he could think of.
@@sriver004 The other solution was to try peace but to the very likely risk that they'd die. That to me was the way to go but it's not as if he had many others chill solutions to go with
Eren was always free, but his human nature of keep moving forward through violence and his ideals of freedom made him a slave. Everything he did was his own choice, but those choices were driven by his nature.
For example, Eren, in his rage, forced Grisha to kill the Reiss family and take the Founding Titan, telling him to pass it on to his younger self. He also sent memories of the future to his younger self to guide him to that moment.
This shows that Eren was free to make his own decisions, but his freedom became a trap because of his own ideals and actions.
@@aryavairagare5418 That's just an interpretation but it's interesting if Eren did influence his younger self through visions. It would give an explanation to why Eren was obsessed with freedom from a young age beside just his nature.
I don't like tto think tho that Eren influenced more than Grisha and himself. I don't see Eren influencing the whole timeline bacause it takes away the agency of the other characters and as stated by Historia in the end the results were not the consequence of Eren's actions but everyone's
Honestly after Arcane finale, I've gained a new level of respect for AOT's ending. Being able to conclude "time travel", "multiverse" what if scenarios AND a global political plot, while still giving its viewers all the chatacter interactions we've waited yrs for, along with a natural conclusions for almost all characters, paired with plot reveals that recontextualize the story even at the end and a grand battle keeping the viewers on edge....is NOT EASY.
Well arcane was rushed because of only 2 seasons
I also saw parallels between the two endings. While Arcane pretty much threw away the class conflict because of a greater threat, the greater threat in Attack on Titan is a direct of result of the conflict/oppression.
Arcane s02 was not very good but AoT finale was an absolute dumpster fire worse than GoT s08. Every single character became a full retard weirdo, almost all plot line got the "it happened because reasons" treatment, the conflict being resolved by Armin little speech was the most ridiculous "let's be friend talk" ever, the conversation between Eren crying over being cucked by Mikasa and Armin thanking him for genociding 80% of mankind was probably the worst conversation in manga history, hilariously awful.
I can't believe there is still people defending this dogshit after all the videos and essays all over the internet explaining in details every plot hole, character assassination, contradictory themes etc...🤣
I guess all those things did technically happen in AoT, but it still sucked donkey butter.
Haven't seen Arcane, don't care about LoL
I feel like character conclusions are what AOT struggled with
56:10 Merphy, thank you! You became a Mad Woman for our sake...
I think in the scene with Armin and Eren, Armin was expressing two things simultaneously: thanking Eren for his love and devotion towards them, while also condemning the atrocities he committed for that devotion. Perhaps the juxtaposition is clearer in Japanese, but even in the way it is translated, it's clear to me that Armin is trying to communicate his affection towards Eren without sugarcoating how horrible of a person he has become. And Armin wants to shoulder part of that blame because Eren turned to that for their sake.
are we forgetting that even during freedom scene EREN LOOKED AT ARMIN FOR VALIDATION
he still looked at armin and said
'this is freedom right armin?"
obviously eren has become a horrible person but at the same time he doesnt neglect everything and armin knows that
I think Armin is approaching Eren from a place of understanding. They are both people who have done horrible things; obviously not of the same magnitude.
Armin has killed and wiped out supposedly hundreds of civilians and children at the raid on Liberio. And he said to himself that he didn't have a choice. He's trying to understand Eren from such a position. Both of them, with immensely destructive powers, having done terrible things with said powers, but having dealt with the guilt that using it brings. I think that's where the "we'll see each other in hell" comment comes from.
This is also shouldered from Armin's own quotes from the past: "A good person? Well... I don't really like that term.. because to me it just seems to mean someone who's good for you... And I don't think there's any one person who's good to everyone...". I don't think any of them consider themselves a good or a horrible person. Especially Armin. Yet, it is Armin's wanting to approach conflict with diplomacy that separates him from Eren; even though Armin's approach doesn't bring a conclusive solution, while Eren's kind of does, however deplorable it may be. That's what forced each of them to the terrible crimes they committed.
Ymir don't know what love was. But she wanted to be wanted by someone else. She wanted to be valued and loved. And her Titan powers made her valuable to the king; in her mind, this was the closest thing to love she ever experienced. she know he's using her. and she realized he didn't love her. but still she can't let go of him. let go of her wish to be loved by him. it was not love. it's was obsession.
Exactly, and from all people, we take eren's word "love" for it. It's obviously much more complex than that. As armin put it, maybe she was just looking for human connection, that's why all the subjects of ymir are connected.
also we have to get that is Armin telling the story,so when he told it,he can only say what Eren told him directly.We have no acces to deep Eren thoughts,because Armin does not have.
What I love about this series is that even four years later I’m still learning things or even adjusting perspectives on some things. Such a great story.
All of the interpretations are still about the shitty genocide series tho, like, wtf is there to like about it?
@@Rowan_A_Boat?
@@tx6723 Which part of what I said confused you?
@@Rowan_A_BoatShut up
Eren is a never-ending character exploration for me. There's so much to think about in regards to him, his motivations, limits of his power and knowledge.
I thing im so glad you were able to understand that many miss, is that while yes eren is a slave to fate and the attack titan. He still WANTS to destory humanity. his disappointment to what the world really was like, crushed him and like he said he was an idiot with power... he chose the rumbling cause it was sight no one had seen, that was freedom something brand new.
Yeah but at the same time considering he is emotionally dead from the moment the rumbling starts I wouldn't say he fully wants it either. Eren is a victim of the horrors of humanity. He couldn't see what good was left in it.
@fs400ion but a version of eren did, whichever the first one was that sent his memories back changing slight stuff, wanted it.
And each subsequent eren resonated with those feelings, but the current eren is grappling with the thought of doing it since he know he is forced to he sees the irony of it, that he wants nothing more than to be free but he is forced to do this, yet knowing equally he wants it
@@nickenglehart6469 I dont think we need to establish a first or second Eren to show that he has complexity within him. Since it's a looped timeline there's only one Eren who was always there. Kid Eren just wanted to see the world and reach freedom with Ymir, Eren before visting Marley was pissed and wanted to destroy it after he saw the outside world was still cruel, and then Eren who visited Marley just was sad by the way thing turn out with the Rumbling he hated but also wants
It really makes no difference.
@@Rowan_A_Boat i would say it makes a huge difference, changing eren character completely, where one is just doing this to save his friends, the other and correct version, is a phycopath, who wanted to kill the world with his with his friends fredom 2nd
I liked the showing of Ymir where she actually did let the pigs out at the beginning of the story and she wasn't just used as a scapegoat by the villagers. To me it showed she believed in freedom even from before she gained the titan powers. Possibly what made her decide to build an attack titan that their focus was on freedom and to rebel.
I think she did it but was still used as a scapegoat.
Isyaama said she did it out of compassion recently and wanting freedom but it seemed a risky with her ominous smile , while it usually works out I feel he went too risky in trying to twist interpretations of events with this scene in the last chapter
🎶 _Who let the pigs out?!_ 🎶
🎵 _Yuh-_ _Yuh-_ _Yuh-_ _Ymir!_ 🎵
I dont think Attack titan's previous users focus on freedom stems from Attack titan itself. It was never directly revealed but I think it is implied that it is because of Eren's influence itself that all of the previous users are known for fighting for freedom.
Yep. Isayama recently stated that she released the pigs because she related to their situation too. Meaning, she also wanted that freedom she was giving to them.
This how i feel, anytime I try to talk about AoT with people. I end up seeming like a insane person piecing together a conspiracy lol.
Deserved for liking it, tbh
@@Rowan_A_Boat Shut up
I love the moment when Annie throws Mikasa in the air 😂😂😂and when they have their “okapi” discussion 😭😂their dynamic was so good throughout the whole show haha
I don’t think Armin’s words to Eren can be taken entirely at face value. Any tenderness feels like an act of comfort and pity, not approval. He does first berate Eren about his plan, rightfully so.
But Armin has a big heart. Only hating Eren in their final moments won’t change anything. So Armin claims shared responsibility. He might blame himself partially, but mainly he’s sharing the burden. To give Eren some peace of mind, while making it clear he’s going to hell. Armin is both condemnatory and pitiful. I think while the manga leans a bit too much to the latter, the anime balances both well
Exactly. It's obvious here that Armin is using his emotional intelligence here. Plus Isayama confirmed that his intentions were to have Armin express solidarity to his best friends in his final moments.
The anime really did get the point across way cleaner than the manga did. The manga hit you with that thank you line like a punch to the gut.
@@korrok2834 I get the phrasing is weird. Saying thanks for becoming a mass murderer. But I it's not as if Armin was happy about that since right after he still Said "I wont let this mistake go to waste". Yet many haters seem to claim that Armin was ok with the Rumbling because of saying thanks you to Eren while he LITERALLY tells Eren it's a mistake in the same sentence.
So yes it's a weird quote. No it's not off character.
@@korrok2834 just checked and the fan translation was off. He said "Thank you. You became a mass murderer for our sake" which is not as bad as the silly "thank you for becoming a mass murderer"
@@fs400ion I think it was just incredibly poorly phrased regardless of version and the anime did a good job of clarifying the intent without it being so easy to misconstrue. Just a case where in glad the anime could sort that one out.
The time shenanigans unlock an even deeper layer of understanding of Eren's character: his inability to change. Every time Eren tries to change the future he's seen, he's unable to do it. Every time, it's not because of a supernatural "destiny" or "fate" pulling Eren's strings, but because Eren himself is unable to change his nature. He couldn't stop himself from saving Ramzi from those thugs because it was in his nature to step in and take action when he saw an injustice he couldn't stomach. That's why he calls himself a "half-hearted piece of shit" like Reiner (who also stepped in to save people he was planning to kill back in season 2). It's the same reason Eren also couldn't stop the rumbling even though he knew it was incredibly evil....because that's the future he wanted and it was in his nature.
Another element of the story I love regarding Eren's character is highlighted in the Return to Shinganshina arc. "Give up on your dreams, and die for us." That's what Levi tells Erwin in one of the story's most iconic moments. Erwin was also someone motivated by a lifelong selfish dream (to learn the truth of this world that got his father killed). He sacrificed countless soldiers' lives for that selfish dream, telling himself it was for humanity's sake. There was never any issue with that hypocrisy as long as those two goals were aligned. But when the two goals came into conflict during the battle with the Beast Titan, Erwin was able to give up on his dream and die for the sake of his comrades and humanity as a whole. In that same arc, Armin (Erwin's future successor) was also able to give up on his dream to see the ocean and "die" to bring down the Colossal Titan. Unlike those two, Eren is the negative example of someone who was unable to give up on his dream and chose to sacrifice humanity in that selfish pursuit.
I think eren is not all negative because he could have completed 100%
he even says IF the alliance didnt come and stop he would have done 100%
Reading this is like finding tinsel in dogsh*t
"it's shiny, but why is it there?"
@@Rowan_A_BoatShut up
Very great analysis that again shows a big difference between Erwin and Armin. Some say Armin would never have had the `balls` to do what Erwin did. Well yeah it's true that Armin would not have sacrified soldiers the way Erwin did.
Regarding Eren tho he did had this selfish desire of reaching freedom at all cost, but that was to free Ymir and end the curse + giving freedom to his friends. So it was in a way both selfish and selfless. It's worth noting that Eren's rumbling scenario also implies his own death pushing forward the idea of selfless selfishness. Eren knew the Rumbling would kill him too. Plus people forget how amazing Eren grew up to season 3. In season three he was willing to let Historia kill him to save humanity. He punched himself for thinking it was logical for others to sacrifice their lives for him since he was special. Eren grew so much. He just got fucked up when he saw the future and became haunted by traumatic visions. I can't hate Eren specifically because of what he went true. It's top horrible experience. His own life was traumatic but then he got the traumas of his father, Kruger, and more.
@@fs400ion yep and that is why the alliance including armin doesnt tell eren he is a villian or a horrible person
they already know what eren has gone through
Weird that you got any pushback AT ALL about the spine creature’s origins when THE LITERAL EPISODE INFO CARD offers “deity” or “god” as one of the potential options.
I think your critiques of the ending are absolutely valid. I didn’t hate the (manga) ending by any means , but I definitely knew some people that did. Back when the ending dropped, the fandom raged. Time , space, & a really stellar anime adaptation really served to polish what was regarded by some as a lackluster conclusion in regards to Armin & Eren’s final confrontation. I adore the anime’s adaption of the ending on the level Evangelion controversial & mind bending finales.
Well the info card is just what people will believe what happened to Ymir without having concrete info. It's like saying "It's God" for anything we have no explanation for. It's God's work.
Exactly. One of the potential answers.
I really do think Attack on Titan will be remembered as a classic in the exact same vein as Eva. Like, literally exactly the same. From the same way people loathe the series, not even including the endings. To the various different interpretations of the themes and messages. I mean, hell, people argue to this day whether the show's ending was happy or not... just like AoT. I'm way too young to have been there for the Eva discussions, so it's nice to be here for all the discussion about AoT.
Unless she is talking about comments that were deleted, I didn't see any that I would call "pushback". I saw people not agree, but I didn't see any that were upset with her initial interpretation.
@@the03ki think eva has aged way better than aot ever will.
As controversial as it was, I love the decision to make Eren's motivation so lack luster and basic. He was never special or a chosen savior, he was just a charismatic and passionate kid who was granted power and took advantage of that, leading to revolution. It's a narrative we see often in real history and in this story we ourselves fall for that trap.
A controversial and charismatic figure in a society that gains power by over stepping boundaries and making large promises of freedoms and glory for their nation, heard that anywhere before?
That kind of story is so commonplace as to be boring, which is probably why AoT dresses it up in sheep's clothing.
Except that's not what happened. He was bootstrap paradoxed into having power. His motivation doesn't make any sense.
@Maxapta The attack on Titan ending is a mess cause it fails with of humans always want to fight each other. In the ending, we see Pardais getting destroyed and Alliance is seen as a hero and don’t how they seen since they raid Marley and switch to their side they should be labeled as terrorists, not hero’s imo. The is main issue that this ending was way too happy in legit everyone in the alliance survived I don’t know if they came back alive it should have been explained how they all survived that battle. Then Eren while the conversation with Armin wasn't good said he didn't know why he did Rumble in previous chaps he said that he did want to kill humanity to protect Pardais but in the ending, we see panels of Pardais getting destroyed by Marley destroying his homeland which doesn't make sense since on of Eren goals was protect Pardais and basically dead for nothing. Then there are other issues with the Titans. We see a see tree in the last panel of the manga which tells us Titans curse is back. Which makes Eren's whole point of being a character nonexistent. Faclo was he right he should of listened to him.
@@JamesGraham-fc8on Understand Eren's character first, protecting Paradis was never his primary motivation.
Eren actually has the most complex and layered motivations I've ever seen. They're intricately connected to his philosophy and psychology, and masked by his false altruism. The "I don't know why, but I wanted to" scene is in fact one of the best scenes in the series, but it's more about Eren's inability to understand his nature (since he's been running away from it the entire story), than it is about having a basic motivation. If you're saying Eren's motivation is basic just because it's 'he wanted to', then the reasoning behind Eren wanting to do it has insane depth and complexity.
What a wonderful journey revisiting this series with you and remembering what made it so special
Yeah, the depression & genocide & nothing else that mattered.
@@Rowan_A_Boat Whatever it is you're mad at, it sure ain't AoT. Deal with your shit, loser.
@@Rowan_A_BoatShut up
Thank you for sharing this journey with me. I had a blast watching and sharing our thoughts along the way ❤
I’m glad you all enjoyed it Lynn❤
RRRAAAHHH. THE WOMAN HAS FINISHED HER MAD RAVINGS. Glad you enjoyed it through to the end Merphy, such an amazingly told story overall imo. And it only got better for me on my rewatch. Not everything was perfect, but it stuck just about everything that it needed to for the story Isayama wanted to tell as far as I see it.
The story of pointless suffering, empty mysteries, and loathsome characters?
I'm also glad he got to write the story he wanted. I wish he had never been published.
@@Rowan_A_Boat you didnt gave any counter arguments about my replies lol
@@AM17titan ???
This wasn't a response to any of your replies? Not everything is about you, kiddo.
A fun point to think about is that Eren was robbed from a lot of “firsts”. He didn’t get to see the sea for himself but instead saw it through his dads memories.
I also agree with that because after he gets the founders' memories, not only does he see all past timeliness, he goes everywhere on earth because of the previous users living their lives at different places.
I feel so seen, I got this when Mikasa offered him Ice cream, even though he had not tasted any himself he wasn't excited as his friends, then Armin continuously telling Eren to stop spacing out and pay attention to the right now, he doesn't say that exactly but I took it as that.
he doesnt like the sea like armin does ,he even confesses this to everyone in s3 ep18 when there is a debate about armin and erwin
he only likes WHAT THAT SEA represents which is freedom
@@datch8044 i dont think you are getting the point on what eren wants
he was excited to see the sea , volcanos in the first place because he wanted freedom
when that wasnt there HE WASNT EXCITED AT ALL while armin doesnt care about that freedom and enjoy every moment of his life to the fullest
"fun"
Some things to say here:
1) The time-wimey stuff works like this. There is ONE timeline, time works like a flat circle closed loop. What has happened will always happen. That is not up for debate really. However what people argue about is whether that is preordained by fate, Ymir, or whoever, or in a compatibilistic sense the actors of the story assume ethical responsibility and are responsible for making said choices. And I think the series has been good at establishing the latter multiple times. For example, the Attack Titan users have clear, personal goals and motivations for doing what they're doing. Yes, future-seeing affects them to a degree, but at their core they still move forward to achieve their own dreams regardless of any time shenanigans. The only time someone is shown to do something they are "forced" to because of time shenanigans is the Dina twist in the end, which still is only even possible in the first place because Eren did everything he did to get to this point, still making him responsible. Imagine if Armin had these powers all along. Can we really say the story would turn out anywhere near the same? Probably not if we're being honest to ourselves, which means the story succeeded in what it was trying to say here. The closed loop flat circle mechanic/power system is just a brilliant literalization of the running theme of "everyone is a slave to something" that is especially prevalent for AT users that chase freedom, yet are ironically stripped of it.
Eren of course is the epitomy of it, as you explained I believe. He knows he's responsible for what will happen, HE wanted this, as he said a billion times, and he's a hypocrite for feeling any sort of pity for himself. The Ch131/Special 1 scene with Ramzi is a masterclass for that reason. It is in that moment that Eren realizes why the future is set in stone; not because of some vaguery, but because it's in his nature and who he is as a person. Much like he can't help himself from saving Ramzi, he can't help himself from enacting the Rumbling, as a means of finally usurping his twisted ideal of "freedom" that he felt he's been robbed of his entire existence.That's why he says in the finale scene with Armin that he "tried" to change the future but couldn't, and why he ultimately calls himself an idiot. And this clicking into place informs his entire demeanor in S4 retroactively: this realization fills him both with immense determination to be the villain he knows he is, yet it also eats away at him because he know how much of a piece of shit he is, and like Reiner, he wishes for someone to end it, end his life, stop him.
2) Ymir. I think like many people, perhaps a mistake here is that people think the love reveal is mutually exclusive with what was implied before. The reality is that Ymir's arc is that of self-discovery and healing through trauma. Put very shortly, Eren grants her the freedom of agency, of acting how she wants finally, which Ymir uses to go on this journey, by observing the Alliance and learning through them. She observes Armin and Zeke's conversation and learns from Armin the value that exists in life despite its cruelty, and ponders on how that relates to her life. Mikasa then shows her what that can mean, and Ymir rejects the King, who she mistakenly latched onto due to her own dream of wanting to find love and connection in life (as was said by Armin and implied by the way the hallucigenia manifested Ymir's powers with the Paths that connects Eldians to her). Ymir then in the end realizes that her source of love, happiness and connection was her children and not the King. The love thing had numerous hints prior to it, if you pay close attention, both in her original backstory and in Zeke's conversation, and I find Ymir's arc quite thematically consistent with the rest of the story. The motifs of "everyone is a slave to something" and the "world is cruel but also so beautiful", which relate to Ymir's character arc.
Thanks mate. Your clarification actually saving the series for me
Also Eren was the one who called it love , he doesn't understand it himself. He even admits that he can't understand the depth of ymir's feeling.
this comment deserves way more likes, you explained things so precisely and so well i'm almost jealous from how well written it is lol.
@@Michel-pe9yp exactly
this comment should get million of likes
BEST INTERPRETION OF ERENS AND YMIR CHARACTER
01:03:23-01:03:44 SO TRUE. I’m soooo glad (and honestly, relieved) that you loved the series. It’s such a journey and the rewatchability is insane. You’ll get to see the small things that at first had seemed irrelevant but are actually part of the big picture that Isayama wanted to convey. I’m extremely excited for your final vlog! Such a shame it’s all over, but Merphy, I will watch you rave like a mad woman over and over if it means you’re talking about one of my most favorite things in the world. 🤩
The irredeemably evil genocide story is one of your favorite things?
That's not a good sign.
In my humble opinion, the scene of armin hugging eren and telling him we'll meet in hell is the best scene in the entire series, i don't see that it takes from the unforgivable and unimaginable weight of Eren's sins... it's about armin sharing the blame when he tells him we'll be together after this ... after ...where ? in hell ! it's not about faith or believing in eren it's about pure love and responsibility armin in his heart of hearts feels that he shares the blame for creating eren this eren and his actions. and he still loves eren not because of what he did or what he represents it's because he is eren his eren his first friend the kid who shared most of his life dreams fears horrors joy with ... armin despises what eren did his first reaction was breaking down beating eren telling him that it's not done stop this ... but he can't help but still care for eren we want them to hate and despise the monster the mass murderer but what if that mass murderer was my brother your son his mother ...
attack on Titan is a story about sinners. no one's hands are clean some are vastly more than others ... but do these sinners have no emotions do they deserve no compensation... even i as a viewer can't help but see Eren in a tragic and human light despite what he did.
that scene touchs me on a very deep level ...but that's just my experience .
Great video!
still sad that the ravings are over.
Years ago I was commenting on One Piece videos suggesting Attack on Titan and I've loved these vlogs so much, thank you!
The way I (a grown ass 33 year old man) bawled when I thought Jean and Connie were finished, and then Armin's reaction Eren's death... This series hurts my soul.
So then... you like it bc it hurts?
I feel like the whole point of the original Titan is more that it's a metaphor for the unexplainable nature of life itself.
We don't know where life comes from. From our POV it just happened one day. And to some it seems like it must be connected to some supernatural origin. Just like life itself 😅
Always seemed pretty straightforward to me. Never understood why people get hung up on it.
Yeah and just like real life people made religious to explain it to themselves . Thus the belief of god like beings
Thankyou for finally being able to complete this story Merphy. Depending on the end of one piece, it is my favourite manga/anime. Everything about it is so perfect. The fact that people can still talk about it after this time in such depth is a testament to the story that was written.
It’s a shame you didn’t like the Eren/Armin speech in the anime…. I thought it was perfect, combined with the soul shattering scream from Armin’s VA in the sub, it gets me every time!
I don't understand how someone can appreciate the excellence in OP & then fail to notice the distinct lack of it in AoT.
11:40 It's actually because as Isayama said in an interview it is more simplistic than that, Eren thought they were the only humans left and they were going to see unexplored frontiers and landscapes like in the books, but since outside is the same as the inside the walls with a bunch of people living in the world he was very disappointed.
Small detail: Eren is admitting everything to a kid that doesn't even speak Eldian and can't actually understand him
It was a pleasure watching your review of the series! Thanks for sharing with us. :)
A couple of thoughts I have:
- I think Mikasa's whole arc has more so been about her fear of loss and losing Eren after her trauma of losing her family, who she loves the most, rather than being obsessed with him as a person. Like, yeah she loved him, but what I like about her decision to keep her scarf and kiss him while ending his life is that it represents that you can still have your genuine feelings about someone while still doing the right thing. I never really saw her necessarily "enslaved" to her love because her love has always been a choice - she chose to save him and look after him all those times, not because her blood but because she just cares for him just like Zeke pointed out to Eren. She also never did whatever Eren said, again she was constantly arguing against him many times, telling HIM what to do, etc - but her fear is what motivated her to make decisions to protect him. So when Kenny states at some point in the series "Everyone is a slave to something", in Mikasa's case I think her enslavement is fear. Also, I think she freed Ymir because she served as her antithesis, and Ymir again saw that she can still let go despite whatever feelings she had, because Ymir probably didn't think that those things being true at the same time was possible (very similar to what you pointed out about her low self esteem mindset within enslavement). I think Mikasa and Eren's time in paths led her to acceptance that there was nothing she could/would have done to have stopped her worse fears coming true, which was Eren's death.
- I think it's important, within Ymir's attachment/"love" with Fritz, to point out that she had kids with him. I believe in the story it was also pointed out that she still wanted a way to connect with her offspring. I can imagine that having children with your abuser complicates feelings of "love", and that maybe "love" was her way of trying to make sense of her situation esp now that innocent children were involved (though as other's have pointed out, notice that Eren is the one calling it "love" - Eren already has a difficult time understanding and living out "love" reliably, so I wonder if he's the most reliable to just take at face value when it's likely more complicated than that). That's why I also think it's significant that Ymir's flashback regret was not letting Fritz die so that she can be with her daughters and stop their generational suffering then. You also see in the HSC end in the manga, when they are walking out the theater, Ymir and her 3 daughter together. I just think her children are such an important part of her attachment and her making meaning out of it , just like Mikasa and her scarf that symbolized her and Eren's bond and feelings.
-I think Eren paradoxically a slave...I mean he says it himself, a slave of freedom (going back to "everyone's a slave of something). So I think it's meant to be open ended because I guess at the end of the day it goes back to the question of nature vs nurture, which is something heavily debated on in real life when trying to make sense of suffering inflicted by humans. I think in Eren's case, it alludes that he was born this way and he couldn't change things because he can't change himself (he can't stop his nature). I get that future memory stuff could maybe confuse this points, but I find it chilling that he saw his future self, what he was capable of doing, and was so allured by that which called him because at the end of the day that's what's in his nature...he just moved forward. I think there's also some messaging that he's a bit childish (similar with Ymir) when it comes to reverting to base desires and understanding of how the world "should" work.
-I really like Eren's breakdown too. It was inevitable. I actually love his and Armin's convo (more in the anime lol but I got the point in the manga as well), because it's their last time together, but also Armin hones in on the point that Eren was always so busy looking forward that he never appreciated what he had until it's too late (i.e. his feelings for Mikasa and vice versa, his time with Armin and what he shell represented...Eren didn't even fully look satisfied when Eren and Armin were going through the various wonders they had dream going through together, despite having those dreams together for years). It's such a tragedy, but hence is the story of "The Attack Titan"!
I fully believe that Eren was never forced down this way via future memories. His future memories showed this because this is always what he wanted and he does admit this but he also tries to justify it by saying he tried to see if things would change and it didn’t work. One of those times being saving Ramsey despite knowing he would be crushed by the rumbling, but once again this is just what Eren is like.
Just like the whole “I did this to make you heroes and make the world unable to crush Paradis”, it’s incredibly convenient. He made all these excuses in order to live with what he was going to and to “keep moving forward”. He said he tried to change all these things but he never tried to change the big ones….like not stopping the rumbling at Marley at the very least.
He’s just full of excuses until that conversation with Armin where like Reiner was with him can finally admit, I was pretending this was for a noble cause but my motivation was always ultimately selfish but I couldn’t recognise that if I wanted to live with myself.
Yepp
& people seriously like this sh*t for some reason.
To me at least the future memories not only shoed the path to the ending we got but they had also had enough of gaps of information to gaslight Eren into believing there was no other choice. Example Ramzi just enough to know that he will save Ramzi and then he will crush him ending up with Eren having a meltdown in front of Ramzi and so on.
He did try to stop the Rumbling from happening tho. We forget it but by rewatching the flashback episodes we see Eren's evolution. He opposed it when it was first suggested, He hated it, despite seemingly knowing it would happen. He was all about trying to find other ways before following Zeke'S rumbling plan.When Hizuru came to help he was relieved. When Hizuru choked out he was disappointed. That's when he started meeting with Yelena and trying to accpet the Rumbling will happen. Then he goes to Marley, still in denial that he'll eventually kill them with the Rumbling. He sees Ramzi, tries to change the future by not saving him (which would then prove the Rumbling could also be avoided). But then he fails and succumbs to what he wants : saving the kid. This makes him realize that he'll also succumb to the pressure of doing the Rumbling eventually. Thus his breakdown and him trying to understand why he will do the rumbling.
Plus in a way we could see Eren waiting with Reiner to hear Willy's speech was his last way of trying to avoid the violence and Rumbling path because he only attacked when they declared war. As if if Willy said something else such as `LET'S MAKE PEACE WITH PARADIS` then Eren would not have attacked.
Once he attacked things unfold and if he stops moving forward with the rumbling it's gonna be even clearer Paradis is fucked thus why he didn't want to stop the Rumbling then.
@@matasblazauskas5859 Good point. Grisha did mention he saw something beyond the Rumbling and asked Eren if the Rumbling was the only way. Both Grisha and Eren kept moving forward to that something (Ymir's liberation and the end of the curse)
At then end of the video where you're discussing Eren's inability to change the future he is seeing, I always clung to his line in Armin's memories. He admitted he is just a fool with overwhelming power. I took this to me he was admitting HE couldn't find a better way to resolve the conflict, so the best he could do was use his power. Admitting this to Armin who has always been more tactical and creative in finding the best solution, who may have been able to use the power better.
Eren in the end was just a fool with overwhelming power, and thought it was best to use it. He couldn't see a future that worked out better because he couldn't think of what he could change to lead to a better outcome.
Is that supposed to make anything better?
He also literally can't do something that hasn't already happened. So it's pointless.
@@mrrdirty6198 It kinda comes back around to Armin's line about needing to sacrifice something to change something. All possible futures were gated by the sacrifices Eren was willing to make, and we know his friends lives are not on that list. Eren would never know what's in those futures because he'd never open those gates. So it's less that he can't do something that hasn't already happened, and more nothing can happen that Eren wouldn't choose to do.
@@Rowan_A_BoatShut up
By then he only cared about ending the curse by freeing Ymir. That was his main goal. Plus the other options were mentioned in the story : only attack military bases and pass down the founding titan, sacrifying children again and again. Everything was a shitty option.
My interpretation is that Eren always had freedom. He had the freedom to run away with Mikasa, or to listen to Armin and do partial rumbling, or do anything else. When Eren said that he couldn't change the future, I think it's more that he was unwilling to change the future because ultimately it was still him that made the decision to go back and save the kid. Him saying that he can't resist the future is him not being able to resist his own desires, even if he contradicts himself.
I think Armin was trying to comfort Eren at the end. His expression while he's "thanking" Eren for commiting genocide reminds of when he was lying to Yelena about being on board with the euthanasia plan. I think he said that to comfort him and to also share his burdens
I'm glad to hear you enjoyed the series! I have some things to add that may or may not be of value but i thought i should mention them anyway:
1) I still believe that Isayama is such a brave writer for writing a character as important and as pivotal as Ymir without giving her a single line of dialogue and instead counting on the readers and viewers to pick up on the nuances of her character, decisions and actions completely based on the visual representation she gets. I personally firmly believe he did a wonderful job in this aspect as well as provide an entirely new experience to readers and viewers of the series who have to interpret all of Ymir's character simply based on her screentime.
2) Armin and Eren's scene in the paths comes off to me at least as Armin trying to give his best friend one last goodbye by shouldering his sins with him, even if Armin isn't the one directly responsible for the genocide Eren committed he still feels a sense of responsibility for being the one to give him that hope of an inhabited free world where they could roam free. I get that it might come off as "too sympathetic" for some people but i don't think it's a crazy thing for someone to try and give their best friend since childhood some peace of mind before he passes away entirely. Armin still held Eren accountable for his actions and he still called him for how ridiculously childish and stupid his view on freedom and the world, but that doesn't mean he can't also grant him one final proper goodbye.
3) The tree Eren got buried under was the same tree he napped under as a kid, it turned into the "Ymir Tree" centuries later as it kept growing as well as potentially having remnants of Hallu in Eren's head.
4) On Mikasa and Ymir i'll just put this here from a small document i wrote on some parts of AoT : Mikasa’s love for Eren was what allowed her to finally kill him, stopping him from continuing his atrocious act. Mikasa learns she could let go of Eren while still caring about him and loving him deeply without forgetting the kindness he showed her. Ymir on the other hand learns that she can let go of Fritz and that everything he had done was fundamentally wrong. We are shown a frame of Ymir holding her 3 children while Fritz is impaled by the spear she didn’t jump in front of, finally realizing that she did have a genuine connection and love with her 3 daughters. If she could do it all over, she would have let her abuser and oppressor die, and instead hold onto her daughters who she lost.
5) The final message of AoT can be summarized in one sentence: Just as conflict is an inevitability, so is the innate human desire to avoid it.
byt they lost tho? What a pointlessly depressing waste of a series.
@Rowan_A_Boat the fact that you think "they lost" clearly shows your lack of understanding of the story in general. Go watch Code Geass and enjoy the simple story of good people vs bad people. Gray morality isn't something you can comprehend, apparently.
@@Rowan_A_Boat omg we got this naive child who thinks that the bombing happened because of eldia-marley conflict lol
grow up ffs
that happened because of completely different war
@@supermariobros2166
Who do you think I was referring to when I said "they"?
Which part of your whole comment do you think I was responding to?
Why do AoTards always cry about reading comprehension?
Obviously because the only way to enjoy the series is to read so far between the lines that nothing you enjoy is part of the actual text of the series.
@@Rowan_A_BoatShut up
These have been such a pleasure to watch, really gonna miss them :,)
an explanation of the controversial Armin's "thank you". I honestly do not blame anyone for misinterpreting this line. this is just a perfect storm of japanese as a language requiring heavy context, the story being told in stilled pictures, and lost in translation (though actually, i also blame the egregious official mistranslation).
let me start by saying that Armin DID NOT thank Eren for committing genocide, both in the manga and the anime. what he did was thanking Eren for "the little moments in life", tying back to his conversation with Zeke, and this is why he's holding the seashell and showing it to Eren.
in the manga, the panels are set up like this: panel 1 - "Eren... thank you" Armin says as he holds up the seashell and Eren looks up at it; panel 2 - Eren looks surprised; panel 3 and 4 are the controversial lines from Armin. that 2nd panel is very important. it's a physical separation of Armin's "thank you" from the next lines he says. so it's actually "Eren, thank you (for the little moments in life, for the view of the sea, the dream of freedom, for the seashell, the thing that is actually in the panel)". FULL STOP. then, "you became a murderer for our sake. I swear I won't let the mistake you're making be in vain". it's not "Eren, thank you FOR becoming a murderer for our sake" so on so on. it's also worth noting that the word Armin used is not "mistake" (as in small, everyday mistake). the word he used is more like atrocity or sin. it's heavy and denouncing and full of regrets. so again, translating the word as "mistake" doesn't make sense, and with the nuance of the actual word that Armin used, it doesn't make sense that he's thanking Eren for committing genocide if he's denouncing it.
all in all, Armin's lines is something like: "Eren, thank you for these little things. You became a murderer for our sakes. The atrocity you've committed, I'll ensure that the chance you've given us doesn't go to waste".
this is why in the anime, as Armin hands Eren the seashell, he says "thank you for showing me this sight, this view outside the wall". which is just the original meaning/intention in the panels, but pulled from subtext into actual text in the anime. the seashell is a symbolism of freedom, the sea, the dream and the beauty of life. it calls back to the "little moment" when they first reached the sea and how happy Armin was to have that moment of achieving this dream with his friend. but while in that moment Armin tried to show Eren the seashell, Eren couldn't see it. he looked right past that "little moment", beyond the sea and saw only more cruelty and enemies. that's why this time, when Armin shows Eren the seashell again, Eren looks shocked because he finally sees it and realizes that "oh, it's always been here".
while I do love the way Armin's lines are set up and expressed so beautifully in the manga panels, with the discord that followed, I'm glad Isayama leaned into anime as a medium to change the dialogues and make clear his intentions.
Thanks so much for this explanation! I've always defended this line because it's obvious what Armin is trying to say with context, but everyone who criticizes it just takes the dialogue at face value, but this makes it so much easier to defend this scene.
Excellent write up. To me E&A convo in 139 is what solidifies aot as a masterpiece, and it always moves me, specially eren's last line which was removed from the anime for some reason: "you can make it to the other side of the walls, humanity will be saved by you armin". It seems eren finally acknowledges armin has the mentality that will save humanity, and it does so in a 4th wall break "the other side of the walls". What we learnt in aot can be applied to our world. We will be saved by people like armin. The seashell panel appears again in focus.
Erens kid like freedom moment is my fav moment in the series, and still one of my fav explorations of that theme. Amazing thematic conclusion
The reason he couldn't change the future is because he couldn't change himself. he can't let go of his desire to destroy the world. That's why the future he saw will not change.
These have been my favorite manga videos from you!
Thanks a lot Merphy for these great videos! It's my favorite piece of fiction, and I very much enjoyed your takes on it, and I'm certain I will revisit these videos.
In return I'll commit to getting back to your favorite series next year, after falling off the One Piece wagon about 20 years ago while waiting for the next volume to come out.
I don't want to take away from your interpretation; as Onyankopon might say, we're free to think what we want. But having sat with the ending for about three and a half years now and going through the story often both by myself and through discussion videos like this, I think both the anime and the manga version are excellent, even the controversial Armin dialogue. There's more going on here than is immediately apparent. For example, the "you became a mass murderer for our sake" line happens seconds after Eren admits that he didn't do it for their sakes but because deep down he wanted to do it. Armin is smart, not catching this would be very out of character for him, but stretching or outright breaking the truth is very much in character. There's also the "Thank you" - for what exactly? There's an obvious interpretation, but it's carefully worded (as far as I can tell with my limited but non-zero understanding of Japanese) to be ambiguous and allow for other takes.
I can also completely understand wanting condemnation of Eren from at least someone in the Alliance. It would feel good, but I think it would go against the their central theme, which is coming to terms with one's own guilt. None of them get to feel sweet righteousness, because they are all terrible monsters themselves and know it. The story and its presentation takes the role of condemning Eren's actions; for the characters there's only conflictedness and sorrow. (Pieck is probably the one surviving character of the Alliance that has the weakest link to this overall theme, and her response is the easiest to interpret as an ironic barb).
Anyway, I could talk about this for hours but it's already very long so I'll stop here. Thanks again for the great vlogs, and I'm looking forward to the final review and livestream (and also to Witch Hat Atelier).
Yep as a hardocre lover of the show the final episode to me on first watch was 7/10. That's nothing compared to the 10/10 of the rest. The reason is, despite loving and understanding quite well the symbolism of the story, the final episode is beautifully complexe. I still think it was a bit rushed and would have deserved like 10-20 minutes more, which doesn't help processing everything. But anyway despite this little complaint, the story is perfect per se but you need time to process it. So I remember how I felt I just watched like some 7/10 episode, but knew I had to rewatch. Then I slept on it. And It just clicked the more I thought about it. For instance details that change everything like when you understand that Miakasa saying Eren is in the mouth isn't her magically figuring it out but most likely Eren telling her. Beautiful. The confusion when you see Armin and Eren's last converdation that have you go WTFFF when is this happening. But on rewatch you get it all.
Now the last episode is It's 9/10.
To me it never seemed like Armin felt shockingly betrayed by Eren besides maybe the very end, since he was always trying to figure Eren out despite disagreeing with Eren regardless
Yeah, Armin is one of the few good things in the entire series...
& then the payoff for all of his talks about peace are skipped over in the end lmao
@@Rowan_A_Boat They are not because the point of the story is to be a peace agent even when all odds are against you. That's said by Nicolo `Escape the forest, or even if we can't at least try`` Fake pacifism is thinking peace actions will reward you with peace. True pacifism is peace actions despite knowing violence will come to you.
@@fs400ion I feel like there was a lot of interesting political maneuvering in the first half of the story that didn't go anywhere, & could've used that payoff, but I guess nobody cares about the politics, & they just want to see people die. 😮💨
Loved your Attack on titan videos ❤
i agree with you that some characters who used to be Eren's friends should've been firmly against him, but i love his scene with Armin (in the anime) and i wanna talk how i see it:
in short: i think Armin's reaction is very in character, but in reality his feelings are way more complicated. he just set them aside because he doesn't consider his own feelings, but also to comfort his dying friend (since killing him wasn't an option). but afterwards i think he'll both grieve Eren's death, but also hate him at the same time, for abandoning and disappointing them all and for the insanely horrible shit he did.
like imagine Armin the pacifist traveling around as an ambassador and seeing all the people that stayed alive but were affected by the Rumbling, hearing about different cultures, places, natural habitats that he would've been excited to see, but now it's like yeah it's all gone now, everything an empty field of footprints. AND the long-term implications for climate!! i think at that point climate change wasn't on anyone's radar yet, but it sure will be now lol, with Eren boiling a chunk of the ocean surface and demolishing forests/fields
Let me just correct you on climate change. It has more to do with the CO2 levels than just heating up the world. Eren's colossal titans, even if hot, are just temporary in the grand scheme of things.
Climate change is about the greenhouse effect that happens with CO2 concentration in the air, trapping heat and PERMANENTLY increasing the global temp
I don't see Armin hating Eren but yeah it would make sense for him to be disapointed when he sees destroyed lands and affected people. But I don't think he would blame Eren. He'd rather put it on himelf as he himself commited some sins.
I think it was made pretty clear by Isayama (and in the anime) about why all his friends were not firmly against him. They recognize Genocide is wrong, but that scene in the forest with all past enemies and friends gathered to wait for the operation next day, they all confess or bring up the horrible things they have done to achieve their goals. Like Yelena said: there is no more beautiful phrase than to "Save the World." Armin blowing up Liberio killing hundreds of civilians and children, Jean shooting a thunder spear at a child, Reiner/Annie/Bertolt's crimes in the scout regiment, and even later, Connie killing a bunch of his friends and people he knew and being called Traitor. That's why I think they all seemed to understand Eren in some way shape of form. We don't necessarily see this kind of understanding from Pieck, Gabi, Hange or Levi.
@@fs400ion i don't really mean that he'd just hate eren, like that'd sum up his opinion on him post-canon. probably could've expressed myself better.
more that he'll have really complicated feelings - eren will be both a beloved friend and someone he resents a lot at the same time.
longer answer:
firstly before s4 it seemed that eren admiring armin so much (and mikasa and their other friends counting on him, but especially eren) was doing _a lot_ for his self esteem. and in the beginning of s4, after armin lost that he came across as very disillusioned with everything he knew - he didn't believe anymore in this crumb of self-worth he used to have, his worldview, methods, etc. and at that point he was very capable of feeling resentment, like when he snapped at mikasa that one time.
he regained some of his confidence and strength after the last talk with eren, i imagine that what helped here was finally understanding what the hell happened and that this sudden rejection by eren wasn't as much of a rejection as he thought, but i don't think he'll stay in this upward swing completely. i think some of the beginning of s4 vibe will come back.
if eren stayed alive i absolutely believe it'd be possible for them to stay friends but it'd involve working through those hurt feelings, right. like armin took it hard. and we saw some of it in the paths convos, like armin being pissed at eren, but it'd take longer than that. and now eren's dead and there is still all of this unresolved stuff from before, plus the rumbling, and it has nowhere to go and no real possible resolution. and armin would absolutely would just try to ignore that it all affects him at all and move on, but that's not how human emotions work
oh i also want to point out what they talked about in the paths convo. eren at the end shed his facade and talked about what he's feeling: he doesn't want to leave mikasa or any of them and die, that he feels like an idiot who by happenstance made everything worse for everyone, but that's not how armin operates and he never did. even when he showed a lot of emotion what he _said_ was how it doesn't make sense to do what eren did (/will do), that now the situation in the world is incredibly shitty, later on that he's going take on share responsibility for eren's actions. it feels like a lot of skirting around what he actually feels and not touching it. an exception i remember was when he said to mikasa that he's was the wrong person to bring back to life, but even then it doesn't feel like he'd accept any connection over that or let himself be reassured, unlike eren.
sorry for the mini essay lol
@@akhiltrc9708 ..you know what, that's true. i liked it from the beginning, that even though they rightfully chose to kill him they all still loved him despite his numerous numerous faults, but thought that maybe it not being all of them would give a more well-rounded picture.
but you're right, the way it is now makes sense. and hange and levi not necessarily feeling the same way is also a good point
Gonna leave a quote that is food for thought on time travel and free will.
"Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills."
I love this quote. Dark explores this really well
And thats why i think eren was never free.
Even if his unwillingness to change his belief is what fixed the events.
I would argue that his belief,motivation rage and even his longing for freedom
Was never his
Thank you so much I really enjoyed revisting this story with you. I have some thoughts Id like to share.
To me the "plot twist" with ymir loving king fritz always made sense but I agree that something is missing. Mikasas and Ymirs story is very simular. I dont think what is keeping them both stuck with those men is love, eventhough I think both of them loved them. Mikasa was saved by Eren after her family was killed and he wrapped the scarf around her. I think that was the first moment after what happened that Mikasa felt save. After that she always connected that feeling at home with Eren. And when she grew older attraction was added as well. Since the world she lives in is so traumatic she clung to that moment with Eren. So she had something in this dark world that made her feel better and gave her purpose. Eventhough she is an Ackermann living in AOT is a nightmare. For her and all of Erens friends it must have been easier to rely on some Titanpower then to think of a solution for themselves and understand there will be no easy way out.
There are many characters that have dreams to keep them going. This is a theme with Characters like Kenny and Erwin.
But would Erwin really be happy if he reached the basement, I highly doubt that. And Kenny might have turned out an even greater monster if he could get the founder. Mikasa and Eren never had a chance of being together. Mikasa not letting go of Eren till her death fits with the cycle of war not ending either. Humanity has not truly learned their lesson yet, but hopefully learned something. I hope what I wrote makes at least some sense.
No, it was depressing nonsense, just like AoT.
@@Rowan_A_BoatShut up
It has been a rollercoaster. I really loved this videos, hearing you thoughts on this anime / manga was really awesome. You make some wonderful reflections on the topics.
here is a list of things i think you misinterpreted or missed about the ending
1-eren wasn't using the ancient titans it was in fact ymir, and when her perspective on life changed bc of armin and zeke dialog she stopped controlling them for eren's wish
2-no one died before the worm came out bc ymir was trying to trap them in the paths essentialy (not killing them bc eren doesn't want that)
3-eren saying he wanted to make them herois was just an excuse, he didn't want to admite he wanted to flatten the world at first, did the same with mikasa when he described the situation completely erasing his wish for genocide
4-the cabin scene wasn't alternative reality like many believed, it's a place in the paths that eren created and pulled mikasa in when she was on falco's back at real time
5- that scene is supposed to be eren confession to mikasa, while mikasa always wanted to be with eren and definitely that was her wish, the one who made that scenario about running away is eren, it shows the change that happened btw the main character where eren shared armin's dream at the begining, but after everything happened and eren finally reaching the freedom and the view that he was obsessed with, he ended sharing mikasa's wish as his ultimate happiness, this change btw their dynamics happened throughout the series with eren slowly distancing himself from armin's dream of just seeing the ocean (it never mattered for eren) and him growing up on mikasa more in every section
6-mikasa isn't obsessed, the series never depicted her attachement to eren as something negative, wit studio with it's changes and additions being solely ''eren'' created this prespective on her, like i said that scene is literaly eren's confession that he always loved and wanted to stay with her his whole life, he even managed to do this and lived with whole 4 years in the paths, in fact that was isayama's way to execute mikasa and ymir final arc
7- for mikasa, that was supposed to show her ultimate freedom, in a series where everyone is purseuing their deams and being put in taugh situations bc of that wish and what they need to sacrifice to get, mikasa was quite the opposite.
Mikasa values Eren's life but not his desires, Mikasa doesn't mind punishing him if he's the one who's wrong, Mikasa doesn't support Eren in his suicidal thoughts, Mikasa doesn't need her noble blood to raise her value( the opposite of ymir but her case need another essay so to another time)
Mikasa doesn't protect Eren because she doesn't have her independence
Rather, she protects him because she values his life
Mikasa embodies pride through all these actions, she was never caged bc of her attachement to eren,while isayama wanted to slightly push that narative through ymir also thinking that, it was never the case if you look closely, her love for him was always depicted as something pure and beautiful
8-so with all this being said, what mikasa did was the ultimate sacrifice and act of freedom bc she essentialy sacrificed her happiness and her joy in life, ymir saw through mikasa that true love doesn't come from prioritizing her lover desire's, and true Freedom lies in getting rid of the restrictions imposed by your world, your environment, and by yourself.
9-the kiss is a reflection of ''this world is cruel yet so beautiful'' theme, it was the only they would have that kind of a moment since eren is only a head (great detail btw, eren is only a head bc he can't regenerate bc he somehow lost the will to live, it's one of the many things that show his duality where you could a part of him keep moving forward and appears as a child, and the other part being just a head inside his titan only sleeping wanting to be stopped)
10- at the end, nearly everyone got what they wanted, from jean and conny to even annie, they got that satisfying ending and finally found peace in their lives, except our heroin who to the very end kept losing, but she indorsed her final loss as her greatest pride
ironicaly she is also the only one that stepped back from the stage when she was the hero who saved the world
i trully think ymir plot point is the best element of the ending if you deep in it with your new prespective, and the final message of the story is depicted perfectly through the ending credit song lyrics
💯
3 is a wild thing to say. Like, do you not get how that makes things worse?
Whatever.
It's difficult for me to understand the kind of people who can enjoy all the pointless torture in AoT
@Rowan_A_Boat it's not like he didn't like the idea
He just didn't thought about it at first
In his mind him killing all humanity will prevent them getting into more battles
But since he knew they were going to stop him, which essentially will make them heroes isn't bad either
He always tried to not show his true motives for the rumbling and rely on the ones that benefits his friends or the island
And you could how that resorted in many awful events like hange and floch deaths
I mean that was the structure of his final conversation ending up with him confessing his goal
@@Rowan_A_Boat I don’t understand how those things make it worse
Were you absent when he said all those things to ramzi ?
@@saadimohamed3222 Yep, definitely worse.
I remember finishing the Harry potter books, but had no one to talk to about it so i came to TH-cam and discovered your channel, as I watched, listened to you talk about books you have read , I became curious on how you would feel, thonk, react to attack on titan. I kept scrolling through your channel, then to my luck you added mangas and anime to your reviews 😶🌫️ I said to myself "so you telling me there's a chance?" Kept watching and waiting, my patience and commitment was rewarded when you announced you were about to start aot(then watch you toss the manga off the table to the floor 😅) i watched your reviews then ravings i was so excited.......here we are.
Thank you ❤
Thank you to your subscribers who supported you and recommended aot to you,
Thank you Isayama 😊
That's almost as depressing as AoT.
@@Rowan_A_BoatShut up
To understand Attack on Titan properly, I highly recommend Korotos videos.
This has been a wonderful vlog series. Thank you for sharing your rambles and ravings with us. It's been such a journey. I'm sad it's come to an end but I'm happy you finally watched/read this series. See you in the final review
I just watched the anime for the first time (not knowing you were also watching it) and finished it a couple of weeks ago. It's been great to see your journey since I just went through the same myself. I personally loved every aspect of the series including the ending. I do think Eren had more freedom than he thought and he admits that maybe he was just the wrong person. But that may be me thinking of it in terms of how things work in Dune where Paul and Leto II took prescience to different outcomes.
I really liked the conversation between Eren and Armin. Especially with the additions from the anime of Armin choosing to shoulder Eren's burden because he put the idea of the outside world in his head. He showed him that book that held all of the things that Eren wasn't allowed to see because they lived inside what was essentially a cage. And that lit a fire inside of Eren that never went out. Armin saw the sea and was happy that his goal in life was finally fulfilled. But Eren couldn't focus on that. He'd already seen the sea due to his father's memories. He'd already seen the future due to kissing Historia's hand. And he began a march towards freedom. No matter how many lives were trampled on. One of Mikasa's early lines in the story is that, "This world is cruel. But also very beautiful." And that line gets repeated by herself when she's fighting Annie, by Bertolt when he's about to transform for the final time, and when Erwin is giving his final charge. But every time the line is repeated we only focus on the fact that the world is cruel. There is no mention of beauty. Which feels very much like the difference in how Eren and Armin see the world. Armin sees the ocean and the outside world and that's beautiful to him. He sees the cruelty of the world but wants to believe some form of understanding can be reached. But Eren sees only the cruelty. He feels only disappointment when he learns that the outside world isn't like how it was in Armin's book. He feels disappointed when everything plays out as they did in his future memories. Armin understands that. And that's why he offers Eren comfort in their final moments together. To the boy who sought freedom, goodbye.
perfectly described..!!
I think we are aligned with Eren. I'm saddened when I see people hating on Eren. He's such a great character with great human qualities, despite his flaws. The rumbling was terrible, it was a mistake. But it doesn't make Eren a monster. Eren is a representation of nature (bird/tree symbolism) and Mikasa's moto : cruel yet beautiful.
The first one who hated what Eren became and did... is Eren himself. RIP Eren.
cope
So glad you enjoyed this series Merphy! Since I first subscribed and you started getting into manga/anime I've been anticipating when you would get into Attack on Titan. Still an absolute favorite.
'The world is cruel but beautiful'
This is the phrase which is shown beautifully in the post credit scene , yes war is back because thats just the human nature . Erwin said this 'Conflict will only stop until there is only one person left'
Now the beauty of it is shown in the last boy scene with a dog
He is wearing a scarf - Scarf symbolizes love , warmth which ymir didnt had any
He is with a dog - a companion a friend ymir didnt had any and also she was chased by dogs
Also the worm is inside the tree , THERE ARE NO BUTS ITS JUST SIMPLY THERE and the proof is shown that how its surroundings was destroyed but the tree somehow survived and continued to grow regardless
The worm as called by zeke is 'LIFE'
Life gives and takes
The worm in the basic sense is an organism so it needed shelter and in return it gave the tree STRONG BODY to survive and prosper
Life wants to divide itself even further and that is why it left the tree because a human is a better host than the tree
Ymir wanted to escape and so in return the worm granted her a strong body
Wow, what a bunch of pretentious platitudes & meaningless little details.
@@Rowan_A_Boat brother just go away lol you are becoming a nuisance
put your foolish naive frustrations onto reddit post on something
it wasn't a problem to say that thing was a god like being. it's just that people tend to associate god with the christianity idea of what a god is. japanese gods are fundamentally different, and that's closer to what that thing might be. some form of yokai, or great spirit.
Hi Merphy, I just wanted to clarify. From my understanding, Eren wiped the memories of not just Armin and Mikasa, but everyone, including Jean, Conny, and Levi. I'm not sure if Reiner and Annie were affected, but Pieck specifically mentioned in the anime that she wished she had a final conversation with Eren, like the others did. Also, you mentioned wanting some people to have been more decisive about killing Eren. Levi and Hange never had doubts; they were saddened by how things turned out, but that was it. Annie and Reiner never hesitated either, which is understandable. Only Mikasa, Armin, Jean, and Conny had reservations, but I think their feelings were entirely justified.
Ramzi didn’t understand Eren btw since they speak different languages
Yea
Since they spoke different languages
Eren could tell everything to him without being told that he is wrong
Okey but Ymir didn't trully love king Fritz to begin with. Nor she lived always as a slave. She knew what freedom was. But she was never loved by anybody and thought that serving and being a slave to someone was the only way, for her, to be loved. I think it's Armin who said that, and it was hinted through a picture when Ymir watched a couple kissing, that Ymir wanted to be loved by someone. No matter what the king did to her, he gave her attention. And she thought it was love.
exactly
the king gave her attention, made her his wife and also i think treated her daughters right because we see in the end that his daughters were willingly in eating their own mother ( they had to ....they had no choice because if eldia empire is without a titan they could be easily defeated )
she wanted an unattainable love just like how eren wanted an unattainable freedom and thats the whole reason eren and ymir understood each other on that level
I don't think Armin said that, but he did say earlier (after being rescued from the Okapi titan) that Ymir is seeking connection.
@@drjank6667 True that's exactly what i was talking about. She is seeking conncection. But connection means love, whatever the nature of this love. it can be friendship, romance or something else.
@@vincentvieille5996 Sure, but I generally think it's better to stick closer to the original text where possible, that's why I gave it. "She wanted to be loved" and "she wanted connection" are similar, but there's also differences. In particular, it's easier to take a narrow reading for "be loved", but "connection" is always wider.
@@drjank6667 In this case, it's connection with humans. It's either connection of hate of connection of love. And love is wider than just romance. When i said she wanted to be loved by King Fritz, it doesn't necessarly means that she wanted to have romance love with King Fritz. She just wanted to be loved, in general. Loved by parents, by children, by friends ... Connection with people is either love or hate. There are no others type of connection between people. And i doubt it's hate in the ways it's done. That's why saying she wanted to be love is a fact. As a matter of fact, every human being want to be loved.
Thank you so much merphy for this couples of vlogs it was really cool to follow your thoughts about this finale season .
I hardly got through the start of season 3, it just didn't work for me. But I've watched and listened to each one of your videos, gotten to know the show through you. And now I have the context and lore behind the scenes and memes that I see online, thank you for making these videos and letting us follow in your journey!
Does anyone else see a poignant parallel between Mikasa and Rose from Titanic? Rose loved Jack after just a couple of days together, holding onto that love for decades. Similarly, Mikasa spent only 4-5 years with Eren, yet she died with his scarf around her neck. Both women had loving husbands and caring families after their relationships, but neither seemed able to move on from their first, brief love.
I would have appreciated a portrayal of Mikasa visiting Eren's grave without the scarf over time, eventually stopping and being buried elsewhere. This would have aligned with Attack on Titan's themes of realism, illustrating how people can move past their first loves, no matter how impossible it feels in the moment. The fact that Mikasa was buried with Eren's scarf suggests she never truly got over him, which is heartbreaking not only for her but also for her husband, children, and family.
The 5 years between the 1st and 2nd attack mean nothing?
they met at 9 and eren died at 19 so at least 10 years together and that's not even including the 4 years they spent in the paths
It's interesting that Ymir loved King Fritz so deeply that she sacrificed herself to protect him. It seems she recognized their toxic relationship and wanted to escape it. Initially, I viewed Ymir as one of the weakest characters in anime-possessing god-like power yet choosing to remain a slave. The revelation of her love for King Fritz made sense in a twisted way; she was the ultimate victim of Stockholm Syndrome. Even in life, she acknowledged this by not healing herself, and in death, she waited 2,000 years for Eren and Mikasa before finally erasing Fritz's legacy. I believe Isayama missed an opportunity by never humanizing King Fritz; if he had shown even one moment of his humanity, it might have made Ymir's love more understandable. Still, Founder Ymir remains incredibly disappointing!
You forgot to mention Gabi's one last precised gun shot (to save Armin)
Hi Merphy! Watching your vlogs has been so satisfying. I remember commenting on one of your videos a few years ago when this was still a book channel (it was probably a video about morally gray characters lol) that you should watch AoT, so I'm so happy you finally did!
I did want to share how I interpreted Ymir and Mikasa.
I always thought that Ymir and King Fritz's relationship was a foil to Mikasa and Eren. Ymir "loved" King Fritz, but her concept of love was essentially obsessive, supporting someone no matter what, no matter how terrible they are to you or others, etc. But Mikasa was always the opposite of that. I personally never thought she was obsessed with Eren (he was definitely lying to her about the whole Ackermann curse). She loved Eren, but her love didn't mean following him no matter what. This was why she wasn't happy with Louise becoming a Jaegerist in her name, and how she criticized Eren killing civilians in Liberio. By killing Eren, she showed Ymir that truly loving someone is being able to let them go and holding them accountable (I think you got this part on the nail). Mikasa's dialogue with Ymir, about her love being a long nightmare kind of showed this.
Mikasa is probably one of my favorite characters of all time so I feel really strongly about this haha. I highly highly recommend watching all the OVAs of the series before making all your final thoughts. The Lost Girls P2 OVA that focuses on Mikasa actually clears up so much about her character and the super key theme about grieving someone you love. Please please watch it if you can.
I personally loved this direction that Isayama took, because so many people always described Mikasa as obsessive when she is such a caring, loving character to all her friends, not just Eren. It always made sense to me that she held onto him so tightly, because she lost everyone else in her family and he was all that was left. It's such a thoughtful depiction of grief and love and what it means to be free (not sure if you caught this symbolism, but Falco's wings forming the Wings of Freedom behind Mikasa while she's fighting for all her friends! and also her dialogue is a really nice parallel to her speech in the Trost arc, but here she is defending her friends rather than thoughtlessly leading them into danger).
Also (sorry this comment is becoming so long) but on the time travel note. From my understanding, Eren didn't know he would be stopped until he actually received the founding titan. Thus, I don't think his end goal was being stopped until the Rumbling was already set into motion, it just doesn't line up with how he was acting. There is a video that explains the whole logic of all this and how the time travel worked much better, it was called: this video will change how you see eren.
Loved seeing all your thoughts on this series :).
“To the boy who sought freedom…Goodbye” 😭😭😭
& good riddance
This series made me grateful that I was able to get the privilege to watch it. Thank you Isayama
Which part was your favorite?
@@Rowan_A_BoatThat is such an insanely difficult question.
If I am forced to choose only one, it'd be the two episodes where Gabi, Falco, Niccolo, and the Brauns were in the restaurant. That episode made me realize the unfathomable amount of work Isayama did on plotting, worldbuilding, and characterwriting. In that episode, numerous things, for a few moments, culminated into a crescendo. After that, I kept seeing the incredible plotting work everywhere, where everything just seems to connect perfectly. It's brilliant.
Thank you! I agree 100 % with your reasoning for erens dissapointment.
He allways knew that byond the walls there will be freedom, the ocean is freedom, but then the ocean became another wall between him and his enemys that want to kill him, nothing changed wich is why he couldnt be happy about the ocean in the end of seasone 3.
There was no freedom beyond the walls, only more suffering, and that made him dissapointed
& then he didn't do anything productive about it, & the story ended. Why does anyone like this?
@@Rowan_A_Boat i agree with you, i didnt like the ending myself, but hearing merphy say that felt validated for a moment that im not crazy with how i interpreted the story myself, another person saw that too
@@Rowan_A_Boat he did? he tried to wipe it all away
@@zis-is-lihi4448 he literally tried to end it all and did in fact that is the literally freedom scene
@@AM17titan hey!
Yes, he did something but i belive that it is more in character for him to say this:
I wanted to do 100 % rumbling but you menaged to stop me, i did it to protect us from certian death, and nothing but this will make sure that we will not die by the hands of people that are not our own, whether you stoped me or not that was my intention.
Thats how i saw erens character, but then the 80 % plan happened and it didnt make sense to me, i will also never belive that eren will kill his mother.
There was a perfectly good reason for why dina passed bert.
She promised to find grisha before she turned, and because of her royal blood, it lead her to the closest place he was, his home and then what happened happened.
Him killing his mom cheapened that moment from a tragedy to a shock value
So ya, those are my opinions.
After all that, its still my opinion and you have yours, but i really felt cheated by those moments to erens character
Look up for a video called: eren is (not) free. Its a Great video about how Time worked in AOT, from a “rules” for the ability perspective, the mindset of the characters still gives a lot of space for healthy speculation and that is great but clarity about the “time travel of information” is always welcomed
What Armin said at the end to Armin, I saw it like "he is bad. But I love him, so I'll try to make him feel better and bear the guilt with him"
01:05:15 It's not made clear, most is implied, but the way I interpret it is that Eren lost a lot of autonomy once he fused with Ymir, because that was what happened, Eren never had the power of controlling Ymir because he has no royal blood, but because his deepest desires and those of Ymir's could become aligned he was able to reach her and become one with her, because all Eldians are to an extent part of Ymir, but once that happened he was no longer in full control of his actions, that's why he couldn't reverse the Titans in Paradis back to humans or prevent the deaths of his people during the walls coming down, because Ymir had no interest in any of that, and it's also why Ymir was constantly shown watching as all the carnage was going on.
But that was why he felt so guilty over the destroying 80% of humanity despite not being in full control, because in order to reach Ymir a part of him needed to want that, a childish desire to destroy this ugly World that caused them so much pain, that's why he said a part of him wanted this, because a part of him did. Also, despite not being in full control of the Rumbling once Ymir and him fused, before that Eren was in control and knew beforehand what was going to happen, and still chose that path.
Eren is that one person you've met who always keeps self sabotaging even despite acknowledge that they are doing so. He just can't help himself
& it's not enjoyable to watch.
Wrote this up real quick 'cause I'm kinda in a hurry.
I'm interested in what you wanted Armin to do in that scene between him and Eren.
It seems that you wanted Armin to pass judgement on Eren and to be done with him but I don't think that would make sense for Armin. Especially when he's talked about how much wrong he himself has done.
I think when Eren brought Armin to that place and explained to him EVERYTHING that was going on, Armin listened like a true friend. And he DID get upset. When Eren told Armin that he'd killed 80% of the human population, Armin showed his dislike towards that.
But I think Armin realized a few things while he was there. One being how much Eren was suffering mentally and emotionally from all of this. Two, how alone Eren was during all of this. How he didn't feel he could confide in anyone. (which is always the saddest part for me.) Three, that all of this was for them. To save them. And four, that this was Eren's way of laying it all out before he died. That his time was up. There really wasn't much reason for Armin to lay into him during their last moments together.
Instead, I think Armin just wanted to give Eren some comfort and peace of mind before he died. And I think that's the right thing to do for someone you've been friends with since you were children. Passing judgement on someone during their finals moments just doesn't feel right to me.
Now, if this was Levi who Eren had brought in and had the same interaction with, I'm sure it would of been quite different. Lol.
Yep. It's not that "you think." You are correct -- your writeup is the only correct way to interpret the scene. Anything else stems from a misunderstanding of the context and characters.
yooo lets go, your videos made me get into the series glad I could hear your thoughts on the show its been great!
D clan - generational will
Dio - generational hater
Ymir - generational stockholm syndrome
I am sensing a pattern
Don't compare this utter waste of a series with all time greats like jojo's & OP.
@@Rowan_A_Boat Shut up
I'm really glad you loved the series so much! I get where you're coming from on that Armin scene. I don't feel the same way about it, but I can definitely see how it can come across as too sympathetic towards Eren. It's one of those things where just one more line from Armin probably could have fixed it.
One thing about the ending that a lot of people comment on is that they think that it was all for nothing, because the cycle seemingly repeats again, but I think that there is great value in achieving small pockets of peace. What Eren did was morally wrong and it was completely inexcusable, but I think that he did achieve something meaningful for his friends.
I think that Eren's character is fascinating, because we completely disagree with what he did and yet we also completely understand how someone like that would become evil and do the things that he did for the sake of his friends.
57:23 That's what's like reading the bible, "2/3 of humanity is gonna be wiped out but that's fine, it's God's plan and the survivors will bow to the God of the Chosen Ones in the holy land".
The bible isn't half as depressing.
Just found your channel this morning, looking forward to catching up! FWIW, I share your interpretation of Ymir's "Thing in the Water", hallucigenia solely used as the basis of the character design. A god-like origin of the Founder - absolutely logical!
I think the scene where he saves Ramzi from being mugged is the real explanation for Eren's agency in this. It's not so much that he's locked into a path its that he can't resist his own instincts and thats for the better when saving Ramzi and for the worse when releasing the wall titans that will trample him. In the end his conviction and strong will trap him into the events because while it's awful what happens its his goal. Its not about "he cant change it even if he wanted to" its "nothing will fully make him not want to". In my opinion anyway
About the Armin scene: I think there is a lot of guilt that Armin feels about the situation and that's why he still feels sympathetic towards Eren. Eren (especially S1 Eren) gets mischaracterized as a hot headed idiot a lot but remember for example the scene when he woke up from transforming into a titan for the first time and the scared military dude had canons pointing at him, Mikasa and Armin. Eren in that short time made up a plan how he was gonna get out of this situation and run to the basement and told the two of them but in the end he basically said ''Armin I trust you 100% if you can come up with another plan I'll thow mine out the window and do whatever you say'' and that ended up happening. Then later in S1 in the forest where Annie was chasing him and the Levi squad again, Eren thought it was a better move to turn around and fight her in titan form with the squads support but everyone else begged him to trust in them and to keep running. Only Levi said he doesn't know what the correct answer is and maybe Eren is just right and they should fight. We know how this ended, the whole Levi squad died and Eren ended up regretting his decision to trust his comrads. I think this is a vital formative scene for Eren and it comes back later in S3 part 1 when they are in the chrystal cave while Rod Reiss is transforming into a titan. Levi says he regrets to have to ask this of Eren again but he has to make the decision to trust in himself and use the hardening ability to save them all. Even after all that Eren in later parts of the story joins the group at the political meeting happening right before he left them to infiltrate Marley to see if they can maybe work out a deal unlike what he saw in his future visions, he still basically asks Mikasa if she loves him and she tells him she just sees him as family just as he saw in the future visions and Armin/Hange and the gang had years to come up with a plan that is a good alternative to the rumbling and euthenasia plan but when Hange confronts Eren in the jail cell and he asks her desperately '''please Hange if you have a better plan fucking tell me right now'' and she has nothing for him. So he makes his choice and starts the rumbling to finally flatten the world and get a view unobstructed by walls. Armin and the others at the end of the day didn't really leave Eren with a better choice and bc of all the stuff that happened in the past it makes sense for Eren's character to do what he ended up doing and he even acknowledges that with the ''I'm just an idiot'' line. Eren realized he was just some random guy who somehow ended up with a lot of power that he wasn't mentally prepared to wield correctly and I think Armin knows that and sympathizes with it and it's not really like he sees a different person in front of him than the one he knew all along.
2 things I forgot to mention:
1. The most traumatic event in Eren life was obviously his mom dying and when Hannes died in front of him in the same way we see that the thing Eren can't stand the most and has a breakdown over is not changing from that moment and not being able to do anything about it when the people that he love get killed brutally so it makes even more sense that he'd start the rumbling when he actually has the power to protect his loved ones and
2. Armin had a mini version of this same arc in S3 part 1 when he killed a human for the first time when he did it to save Jean. Afterwards he threw up in the river saying the girl he killed probably wasn't a bad person or even a better person than him and he only killed her because she was part of an opposing group with different ideals (just like Eren) but later Levi thanks Armin for doing it bc that is the reason Jean ist still alive(sound familiar? Thanking someone for killing for the sake of their group? Just saying). Jean then goes on to say thar next time he won't hesitate either and make the right decision but Levi stops him and says he never said that what they are doing is necessarily right proving once again that he is a goated character xD
You should do a collab with Rogerbase since you both enjoy this series so much it would be really interesting to see you two pick each other's brain about it as a whole.
They are, and Merphy says that at the end of the video. They will be doing a live stream together in December.
Awesome I'll definitely have to be on the lookout for it I must've missed it at the end.
@@mattmn2891 It has been pencilled in for the 13th
@@Lynn-CA thanks for the info appreciate it 👍.
@@Lynn-CA now thats the best thing i have heard now
I believe that the discussion on what exactly is "Life" is an ongoing conversation. Meaning, that this organism can perfectly be a god or a part of God. I also had mixed feelings with Armin's conversation with Eren, but overall I feel the very same way and I am thankful for this series to exist and also for you to have reviewed it and enjoyed it as much as you did Merphy! Thanks for your rumblings on the rumbling! 😆
I think this is a series that's a lot more enjoyable and interesting when you come to with your own theories and seeing how close you are by the end as opposed to having people correct you or push back on your theories when they have context you don't. AoT is a series that doesn't necessarily explain things and leaves a lot to your own interpretation. I've never heard the hallucinogenia theory, and to me, your deity theory is just as valid.
"leaves things to your own interpretation"
meaning it never had any intrest in the themes it discussed & just used them as shiny jangling keys, as though saying the word 'division' could make someone a mathematician.
Hallucigenia is not a theory. It's just the real animal Iseyma was inspired for to create this parasite/ deity or everything you want to believe. Its form is the same. What it symbolizes, it's up to you to chose. But It's a real animal from our world that existed when continent were about to appear out of the sea.
@@Rowan_A_BoatShut up
I have different sentiments on the aspect of love. I think we evangelize the idea of love to be the pure, almost the ideal of what should be morality but… I really love this aspect that love can be slavery. That a slave can love their owner and that’s how sadistic love can be as well. Abusers love their victims, and victims love their abusers. That’s why breaking free from that love is the final straw in order to move through something as horrific as the rumbling. Because Eren is annihilating the world because he loves his people, love can be genocidal as well. Anyways, just enjoyed that he stood firm on that and used Mikasa as a vehicle of what it requires to be free from love.
Good point, and this more nuanced take on the idea of 'love' is something that struck me as well in AoT's finale. Though I would phrase it as "break free from slavery to love" rather than breaking free from that love itself - Mikasa still loves Eren to the end after all, and in my view Mikasa's central realization (and by extension, Ymir's) is that she can kill Eren without this negating her love for him, in fact that she has to kill him precisely because she loves him and always will.
Oh the timeline thingy is actually very easy to understand, it kinda like a loop. Because Eren is destined to be the one that free Ymir, the Attack Titan was born to fulfill that. The closer generation to Eren, the holder get a clearer vision of what Eren eventually see. It is his prison, the Attack Titan is his cell and he become the slave to "freedom"
Well, there is controversy, but it's mostly superficial tbh. It's a masterpiece imo, change my mind.
My take on Eren is that he's a slave of his own desire and ideals of freedom.
Remember what Kenny said: "Everyone is a slave to something". Eren is a slave of freedom, forcing himself to search for that ideal and to become everyone's enemy because of it.
He could've changed anything at any time, but if Eren has the Founder's Titan at all it means he didnt change, he never changed anything, because he kept following his own desires and his own morals. Ultimately he was destined to repeat the same actions every time because that's what he wants, tht's what he always wants.
I bawled like a baby when I saw Jean and Cony sitting side by side, resigned to becoming Titans. It was the only time I shed a tear during AOT. I was devastated by the loss of the Levi squad and numb with grief when Armin "died," but that scene with Jean and Cony hit me unexpectedly hard, leaving me a mess for half an hour. After some time, I managed to pull myself together and finish the series. I thought the ending was good, though not perfect. As you mentioned, you might want to dock half a point or even a full point, but that would still leave AOT with a score of 9 or 9.5.
Associating that worm or "the source of all organic life", with hallucinogenia is interesting and obviously is what inspired the shape of the creature, but it doesn't go beyond that.
Hallucinogenia fits perfectly with how Titans actually work. Titan powers come from inside the nape/spine of the shifter and from a mysterious elecrical charge. So it's only fitting to Hallucinogenia, who literally looks like a severed human spine, through which our nerves run electrical impulses.
Thirdly, with Hallucinogenia we finally have an answer to what the world of the paths is and how are all Eldians connected. If Hallucinogenia attached itself to Ymir so it would be able to multiply, it only makes sense why Eldians all carry Founding Titans/Ymir's genes. Hallucinogenia multiplies like a sexually transmitted disease, its cells are spread out into every single Eldian from birth but are not awakened unless they are stimulated with a spinal fluid of a titan, or, in other words, already awakened Hallucinogenia cells. The reason why only 9 titan shifters are able to willingly control the state they are in, is because 3 daughters of Ymir did not merely inherited non awakened Hallucinogenia cells from birth, but actually ATE hallucinogenia worm itself which was attached to Ymir's spine. Later their children also ate their spines, because that's what king Fritz demanded, and so original Hallucinogenia worm, which is literally like a hive mother to all Eldians who possess its spread out cells, was spread evenly between 9 individuals, and is passed throughout generations by eating. The founding titan is simply the Eldian which possesses the biggest piece, or the head of Hallucinogenia. This is how Eren had it in its spine when he and Zeke made contact, it was there all along and in Griesha/royal family before that. And the hive mother Hallucinoenia - the founding titan is what connects all its cells and titan shifters, just like a bee hive mother is connected to all the bees. And when an Eldian dies, Hallucinogenia collects back its multiplied cells, and since they are situated in the spinal cord of a human, it collects conciousness and memories of those they belonged to. This is how Eldians end up together in the world of the paths, which is simply the nervous system of the original Hallucinogenia.
@@AM17titan ok bro, but hallucigenia is still just an animal and it isn't the same as the worm
@@MrRenanHappy yea ik but we dont know what that worm is called and its widely spread over the internet that even though its wrong when you say ' hallu' you kind of get that he/she is talking about the worm
You know, the most impactful moment of the finale for me when I finally saw it adapted was the way the chorus of the dogs kicks in when we get to Levi sending off all his dead comrades. I remember crying my eyes out as it sang “Do you believe that we can kill them all?” And I cried “YOU DID YOU ALL DID IT!!” As the realisation of the end of the titans hit me like a tonne of bricks.
Now I will say, the tree at the end is open to interpretation but for me I see it as a juxtaposition to Ymir. Ymir hunted by dogs stumbled into this place out of fear and it led to centuries of atrocities. Here though we have a little boy with his pet dog, curious checking out the tree willingly. If there is some hallucingenia there I like to believe it will give him a power much more hopeful and kinder to the world.
AOT is one big case study of how cruel the world is. The fact that paradis did experience some decades of peace but the cycle of violence continued and after millena the world where Titans have now became myths, Eren friends have now long forgone and became history of past , the haunting reminder of humanity's nature being witnessed under the tree right where Erenis burried is tragic.
As Erwin said Humans will continue to fight each other until the day one human lives.
Yeah, such pointless lies about human nature were one of the weirder parts of the series
Well I hope my following opinions help, this my opinionsnotfacts.......People forget the language barrier
Ramzy (the kid Eren saved) didn't understand what Eren was sayingbwhen he wws apologizing and crying, hence went to tell his grandpa about a man who saved him and was crying, so he brought drinks to thank him, so yeah the mental and emotional prison king fritz placed her in(th3 paths) could be a coping mechanism to tell herself she was loved, alternatively
Eren interprets Yimir's memories and emotions as love, that was Wrens opinion not wht actually is.
Eren saying he is an idiot, is a metaphor for fighting one's nature knowing it is horrible, like giving into your guilty pleasures knowing very well you shouldn't.
Eren crying and being "pathetic" is a teenager at his breaking point, having generational rage and memories with so much power, you get that much power with that much influence and memories he gets overwhelmed sometimes when people are overwhelmed they just want throw everything away and watch the world burn.
The gang being hang on Eren, feels just right they grew up on an island during their influential years of course they would struggle balancing emotional relations and global politics
I think if the screenwriters added Eren's chat with Annie, Connie, Jean amd Reiner it would help show the viewers how jumbled his mind actually is, because he has so much going on.
Ps. This is just my interpretations
The scene that was “comically bad” I thought showed one last scene of Erin’s humanity
It was so fun watching you experience the show for the first time. Im so happy that you can still love the series eventhough the series had its few problems in the finale :D
Well, the problems with the finale are foundational to the story, so it probably should ruin everyting else.
@@Rowan_A_BoatShut up
Congratulations on getting though this MASTERPIECE. I guess I am the only one who likes the eren armin scene.
11:42 Eren specifically wanted the fantasy trope of an unexplored land to conquer and claim back for humanity… He was disappointed that was a lie…
In the anime, the voice of the baby that is passed down is done by the son of the Eren's japanese voice actor, Yuki Kaji, and yes, it's a baby too. It adds a lot of symbolism if you think about that.
Totally other thing, but I like the different take on freedom from Eren vs Luffy. Luffy is like the kind of god you'd want to worship, who gives freedom and liberation to all, while Eren is like a wrathful god, giving or taking freedom based on his own judgement
I need merphy to start another series. I need the ravings of this mad woman in my life
Preferably a series that doesn't suck donkey balls
Found your channel via these rambling videos, thanks for the good content.
I watched the anime for the first time this past spring with friends and I had the same opinions about Ymir’s character motivation. I thought the author did a fantastic job of building a tragic character with Ymir. Pro-Eldians revere her as this founding hero for their nation, Anti-Eldians see her as an actual devil. In reality we saw she is a frightened little girl, forced into slavery, sold out by her peers and hunted down to be killed by Fritz’ men only to be “saved” by becoming a titan (which is probably horrible, especially for a little girl). She is then STILL used as a slave by Fritz, not only now in war but also sexually. After she dies she is still not granted freedom and it is revealed that all of the goofy titan characters we have been laughing at for the entire series is actually because Ymir is forced to toil for eternity at the coordinate, stuck as a slave forever. I thought Eren’s whole shtick about “freedom” worked so well because it meant freeing Ymir, him saying to her “you are not a god, you are not a slave, you are just a person” and her crying was so well done. The rumbling being the way for this scared girl to let out an eternity of rage against the world. Just for them in the 11th hour to say it was for love? I couldn’t believe it. It does not ruin the series for me but oooof, I do not understand the reasoning behind that choice.