Barebow Archery Grouping | How to Shift Groups Left or Right on the Target
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 เม.ย. 2022
- I've gotten a lot of questions lately on how to properly adjust grouping left or right while shooting barebow archery. There are many options to shift your arrows on the target, I share my thoughts on the best way to make adjustments for shifting your impacts. Following these guidelines will allow you to aim your barebow in the middle and have the arrows hit centered on the target face.
Link to String Walking Video: • How to String Walk a B...
Link to String Alignment Video: • String Alignment Basic...
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Great video Jake and you are right, there aren’t enough places on the internet or videos on TH-cam explaining these things. I’m trying to learn as much as I can to aid my daughter as she is really keen to become an archer. We have joined a club but watching your videos is giving us a massive boost into the world of archery. Thanks for the great videos!
In a way, I'm hoping my younger cousin(s) will be interested in archery, so I can teach them what I know.
Which I'd pretty much just the basics.
AWESOME, awesome barebow content Jake, the last few vids around weights, tiller and plunger have been invaluable... much appreciated. Also good to see you flinging arrows again.
Thanks! Glad to be of help
Thanks for all the help Jake
Thanks, Jake - really generous of you to do this. I'm learning so much from you. Thanks!
Thanks Jake. Exactly the answers I’m looking for. Another great video.
perfect topic! just what i was working on
So happy you're back with these videos! killer content as always
Great subject and top video as usual Jake. Very informative.
I did just that (adjusting the plungertension) when I shot barebow. Thanks Jake for highlighting this 👍
Great content delivered simply and concisely.
So much better than other barebow channels that are just a project.
Thank you thank you. Now I'm in the market for a new plunger.
Kaminski you so rock! Every vid you produce confirms the self coached choices that I've made. Thanks a bunch 🎯
Jake, I flatter myself that it was my question on this topic this week that prompted this video but whatever the reason it was so helpful. Thank you as always and looking forward to getting out on Sunday at 100yds and getting point-on for the first time ever.
Did you read my mind?!? This is exactly what I’ve been puzzling over for the last couple of months! Perfect timing for yet another fab video, thank you
Exactly what I was thinking or wondering about since I startet with Barebow. 🤯mind blowing information about plunger tension and how it is related to the crawl.🤩😍👍
You make everything look and sound easy. Your way of teaching is some of the best going. Would love to see some video of you competing in barebow. I have watch some of your Olympic recurve completion. Darren
This is a problem I've had for a while, I'll try adjusting my plunger and see how it goes - thanks for the information! Also really interesting to hear how the barebow field archers manage, I'm in awe of those guys!
Great instructions and explanations.
youre a solid dude jake giving us all cheat sheet
OutFrickin’Standing content Jake. I too have always wondered about the left, and right issue when it came to shooting at various distances. The plunger made a whole lot of sense to me, regarding crawling the string and the relationship to the effects of the spine of the arrow. Looks like I’ll be observing the arrow impact more closely now, and start experimenting plunger tension to see the effects 😎🏹🏹🙏👍Thanks for posting buddy 👍
Thank you Jake. From a 63 year old who started acrchery this year & after a few weeks indoor training went outside and changed to Barebow. This really isn't talked about out & the vast majority at my club are Olympic recurve so probably don't even know.
Jake that's another Great Video helping the Archery community with information that is as you say soo hard to come by (For Free) As I got into Archery like every one else shooting compound I found it hard to get Real Training on Form, Site, Stance, Draw, Anchor, Back Tension, Relace and Flowthrough. All of this I learn from John Dudley one of the most highest respected archery coaches Giving Back to the Archery community and You are in the same vain. Thanks Jake for helping me along in the sport that has brought so much pleasure. been a supporter thru books, R-Core Grips and the like.
Thanks for this video, very helpful since I am drifting to the left. Do you have a video showing anchor/aiming for bare bow shooting - no sight.
Thanks a lot a lot valuable information that I had forgotten I was a national level archer in India at the time of Darrel Pace and Rick McKinney and my coach was Sheri Rhodes.
Interesting discussion! 👍 I wish I could use plunger tension to shift my groups, but for me it does not have much effect - other than to mess up my tune if the plunger is too weak... So I am using center shot for my basic setup and string alignment for ad-hoc corrections.
Thank you Jake!,
Really important thank you
Love that you put your small block target in front of a tree while adjusting your groups left to right. I would have had to dig one out of the tree.
Thanks Jake. I don’t know where you live in Florida but your backyard sure is nice what a great place to practice and do your videos. Your video was spot on Thanks your videos are very helpful and very clear. Also I am very interested to know how much weight is on your bear bow.
@Jake: Your story sounds reasonable, I have no contact to top BB shooters, but know a lot "good BB shooters". There the process is usually to correct a horizontal "gap" with the string blur, find the correct button pressure with standard Berger test at a medium crawl (usually between 25 and 35m ) and use the Raster Button only to correct the effective draw length as you have shown it at the end of your vid.
I shoot a plunger on my hunting bows for these exact reasons. Without a plunger I hit left. If I cant the bow it brings my groups over to center. But at longer distances I am not very consistent with my cant and it shows. With a plunger I can tune my groups to the middle and shoot vertical bow. After getting the groups where I want them, I can readjust my tune to get good broadhead flight. I switched to a recurve because of the simplicity. I had no idea the rabbit hole I was jumping in!
Hi jake! great video. You mentioned 'grip sear'. Could you do a video on barebow sears (tab sear or grip sear please?)
Well, I have't (yet) made such progress with an Olympic setup that I feel brave enough to try and branch into barebow as well, but even so, that was a really interesting and thought-provoking piece, Jake - thanks again
Barebow has been rewarding for me
You are producing the gold standard now in archery videos.
Thanks so much. I never understood how string walking works and your demo on shortening the draw sure helps. I hunt with a long bow and it is not happy with string walking does not tolerate it well.
Any advice in regard to trad equipment would be appreciated.
This is very true. Jake Kaminsky is sharing his years of efforts and hard work in an excellent power packed premier format that allows us barebow and recurve shooters to advance our game at warp speed.
I urge all viewers to join Patreon and support Jake Kaminsy's channel.
Loyal viewer and
Patreon member,
Rick Mansberger
Guns and Bows Archery Club
Good info.
As always, great content Jake. On my barebow setup(s), I've only got an AccuTune (from The Push Archery) to adjust my center shot and I shoot of an elevated shelf. Works fantastic for both my setups (hunting/3D). Looking to upgrade my target/3D rig with a plunger/rest combo....any recommendations? If I recall, your a fan of the AAE plunger with a Zniper rest? Love to get into something that would hold up to heavy FOC arrow setups so I could mirror that combo on my hunting rig as well. Any recommendation(s) are sincerely appreciated!
Hi jake Dave here from wales uk, just watched your video on adjusting plunger for left right impact which i have done with the recurve. However, does or will this work barebow compound using the bodoodle timberdoodle rest? Ive just changed from left handed to right handed after 30 years and loving it. But i am getting right impacts about 2 to 3 inches at 20 yards. Great channel you run, watch it regular👍
Very very good tutorial how to setting arrows to middle,, not left or not right... I often shot barebow,, all arrow always to the left from target.... Oh My God,,, Bad accurate,, So I aiming to the right target...
Great video, Sadly still using a club bow so ive been aiming at other points to get center groupings. Any chance to get a video with decent set ups at certain price range $300/$500/$1000? i bet alot of people getting into it would like a bit of guidance on what to put our money into.
I really appreciate all your videos, thanks a lot.
I'm currently struggling with all my arrow ending left of the target but though I tried to modify my center shot, my plunger tension, my string alignment... it still ends to the left. There must be somenthing wrong, maybe in my form, my bow hand, my release...? I still have to find out or would need help to check my bow tune.
So for those struggling like me, there are probably more factors than plunger tension to take into account anyhow but keep up !
Thank you again
Sounds like your arrows are too stiff or you have issues with hitting your face, chest, arm or shirt while shooting
Hey Jake. Another helpful vid. One question I can’t find answered is this: when using the arrow tip to aim, should I expect it to move around poa, like I’d expect with my compound scope, or would that mean I’m aiming for too long? At the moment, I find myself slowly walking tip over gold and then releasing. I have no idea if this is ‘proper’ technique 😵💫
Jake, I had difficulty lifting the riser during the aiming process. any advice?
Jake can you suggest a few decent plungers w/ click adjustment, and a draw clicker in a mid price range?
Great information as always. You mentioned walk back tuning, but for the life of me I can't find a video covering it.
here you go! th-cam.com/video/tZa2FoBLDfY/w-d-xo.html
@@JakeKaminskiArchery Thanks!
Finally someone that explains how to do this. Thanks! Beer on me :)
Cheers!
Jake or minor adjustment i could adjust my brace hieght to acheve this... i do this shooting off my shelf.. i am new to the ilf world,so i'm curious to your thoughts on this. Could this be an option or could this have negative effects also? This is for minor left and rights of course. And i would assume if shooting say a springy i would change spring stiffness to acheive the same?
How much of this information will cross over into shooting a compound bow? I am returning to archery for a few reasons, first to introduce my children into this great sport, and second to rebuild my shoulders( without surgery). Any and all info will be greatly appreciated, and I too will be getting into recurves
Hey, Jake, thanks first for all the help full Videos. Ok, im a rookie, but does the plunger really Stifts the group left or right? Or ist it the the Direktion of the alinement of the both "Knoten points " Of your arrows.?? And how do i find the smallest group, best center group.and so on. ?? Greating from Germany bowhunterTuS Vormwald
Just to hear that it's ok to lose tune in order to establish a central grouping is music to my ears. I've been anxiously backing off the spring tension and watching my bareshaft flay away from my grouping in order to get the group where I want it. I've tried my best to alter my form so many times😡
This snippet allows me to do what I have to do. 👏👏👏
You can then adjust draw weight to get that arrow tune back if you want. Keep the plunger tension the same, you make need to make the adjustment back and forth a few times but you'll get it dialed in
I reduced plunger tension which has dialed in my shots at all distances(weird because my bareshaft is out) and improved my shooting massively, not least of all because I don't have to adjust my form. I did have to turn my knocks because my inner/lower fletching was being slightly marked, resolved!
Can you maybe make a video or answer me the question, what kind of mistake I make, that some of my arrows going to the left ( but not all). I don't find my error. I have nice groups, but some in the left, some in the center 😞
thats a nice looking bow and so quiet too :o can I get a list of the parts in it?
Archers Paradox.
How about the dynamic spine?
I shoot traditional Asiatic archery. We use bows w/ virtually no adjustment to the bow. We also don’t have the benefit of an arrow pass, so more Archers Paradox effect.
With a slightly heavier tip, you weaken the dynamic spine, which will move the arrows to the right. Works well.
Outstanding topic! I’m glad you discussed the balance of moving your groups vs possible loss of tune (larger groups). As a barebow shooter I really appreciate this insight. Now for your next trick…. Dig deeper into the mysterious art of adjusting the plunger based on distance/crawl. Perhaps go film some real world examples? I’ve only heard about this but never seen it in practice. Thanks and keep up the great content!
great add, it will depend al lot on the rest you use! I would like to see a side by side comparison of just that. Hard to do though.
walkback tuning and you don't need to adjust plunger for different distances.
What # is best for barebow.
Does string walking reduce arrow fps or penitration?
What if my bow doesent have a plunger? I shoot off the shelf
What if your shooting off the shelf?
Sol
Just purely theoretically, adjusting the plunger tension might be the **only** right way if your anchor point is vertically aligned with your eye (corner of the mouth for example). The other approaches either are not consistent, or don't extend well to other distances than the one you are shooting at.
What if you don't (can't due to rules of the archery group I belong to) use a plunger?
can i ask where you got your quiver holder/what belt youre using as a quiver belt?
This is from The Push Archery
funnily i was going to ask the same question the other day , string is almost on my arrow tip , and they still go edge of gold left
What do you do if you dont have a plunger? I shoot of the shelf, straight off from fur. I know, not a barebow. But barerbarebow... :)
What if you dont have a plunger to adjust the temsion 🤔 really enjoy all your videos BTW
I don’t use a plunger either. So I have the same question.
Wait, is that still your yard? That place looks so alive in spring! Feels like a wild forest clearance.
If I am shooting off the shelf and have no plunger, presumably things like canting and using the string blur is all I can do?
Or arrow spine and point weight
What plunger are you using that has "clicks"? Mine doesn't have that feature.
Personally I am using an Arc System micro click PRESTIGE plunger. It seems that there are many with micro adjustments from reasonable price to quite expensive. One the video it looks like to be an AAE Gold Micro plunger.
Im using Mighty Plunger by W&W. Its not to long as manty in the handle, which is more aestetic to me
As a hunter how do you deal with day light difference on the string. The optical shift of the string depending on sun light and time of day.
Practice. Knowing how the sun affects the impact is important.
The rough rule of thumb is the arrow always lands towards the sun’s direction.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery Thank you! I love the videos keep them coming.
wow!! Amazing.
Weirdly enough my groups shift left when i crawl less. I have to completely tune my bow i think. or any explanation anyone? They should move right since my arrows should react weaker. Or not?
Same for me. I'm good at 30 but at 40 yards I'm left. Seems like I shoot be right with the shorter crawl
@@jimjohnson3429 Hey Jim, i actually solved it. At longer distances i unconsciously over draw slightly and my anker moves then further to the right.
The fix is to imagine all targets stand close to me and i dont need any effort.
@@Gabriel.A.L. I’m going to try it today!
I play olymic style recurve. I am facing issue where all my arrows are landing left at 30m, my sight is already all the way out to the left. Checked my bow alignment center shot arrow spine release but nothng is helping. Can anyone tell me what could be the issue
My husband had the same problem, he resolved it by fixing his head position.
How big is that target? Keep trying to look for them but people are selling tiny ones which look big in the pics :( i dunno how big standard ones are... 50cm?
Hey Jake. What bow is that?
The Win&Win ATF-x
What is your favorite barebow- your go to?
OK .. I waited to get an answer for my grouping to the right... But this problem occurs with my "horse bow" shooting thumb release ..
That can come down to arrow spine for what I understand. If you are RH you may have too weak of an arrow.
I had a very long conversation with Rick Stonebraker about this at Lancaster. Too many barebow archers look at using the plunger as a sight adjustment. They also see this as a way to make up for issues at different distances when shooting field. Really that's just hiding a bad tune.
For single distance, changing centershot is more effective. Look at Grayson's video here. th-cam.com/video/L_vUl2eXdJ4/w-d-xo.html
It's worth noting that Demmer runs a very non-standard centershot so that he can get the string alignment and group tuning that he wants too.
Rise-fall tuning, in addition to walk-back tuning, can help you find a tune that doesn't need to be adjusted at each different distance.
This is an effective method only if your form and tune are very good. If you normally hit center and aren't on a given day (usually because of lighting). If you're struggling to high center all the time, and your bareshaft and walkback tunes are dead on, then head position and string alignment are the answer.
I apologize for dropping the names, but I wanted to be clear that this information is also coming from world's top field archers.
Canting is an effective way to adjust for the wind. I prefer to aim off, but I'm not going to argue with Demmer's success.
Different strokes.... I don't think there is only one way to do it. Walkbacks cannot be done with barebow and string walking with X10s due to the barreled design so I cant do that with my setup.
IMHO there is a relationship to draw weight, center shot, plunger tension, arrow spine and point weight and ALL those affect left and right impacts in various ways. With such a large amount of variables there will inevitably be more ways to do it for sure, I say NEVER string alignment or canting (unless you like to cant in the wind, but I do not)
To name drop on my own I talked to Alan Eagleton, and Ben Rodgers... These are who planted the seed I was referencing in the beginning.
I think these shifts left and right can be made in a multitude of ways... However good luck finding that info out there freely and easily. Just trying to help those who aren't in the know out!
Thanks for the feedback.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery you bring up an interesting point about barreled shafts and stringwalking. A parallel shaft seems to be more popular with barebow archers shooting field and other mixed distance events, so this may be another way that they ensure a more consistent tune.
I would try the rise/fall tune. I found it an excellent way to get a plunger tension that works at multiple crawls (thus multiple distances), and a decent substitute for walkback tuning if you're limited on space.
Interesting video! Maybe this is something Jake would be interested to confirm? As for Demmer... I think hardly anything he does can be considered "standard". I mean, just look at his head position 😆
@@andreask.654 I think that's kind of the point. High anchor relies on facial geometry a lot more than an Olympic anchor, which requires more variation between shooters to establish consistent references.
The (to borrow one of Jake's terms) order of operations for me is rough setup->bareshaft tuning for arrow spine->rise-drop tuning for centershot and button pressure->walk back tuning to verify centershot. I'll often walk-back tune with both my 18 and 50m crawls to make sure.
For single distance, if you're in tune, I think adjusting centershot is more forgiving. For mixed distance, adjusting plunger tension is generally more convenient.
@@InFerrumVeritas I have never heard of rise-drop tuning before. Is this just a different term for something we all know, or can you maybe share an article or video that explains it? Thanks!
The more I think about it the more I like the Grayson video. This finally explains why my bare shafts are in the group, but nock right. I would really be grateful if Jake could take the time to repeat that same test to confirm the results.
Had a great tune with my first bow right off the bat just guestimating but now I've moved on to others with different draw weights and different arrows and am feeling so frustrated. Not using a plunger, shooting off the shelf. Would prefer to just have a perfect tune on my arrows (I know it's possible) but am now considering caving in and using a rest and plunger. I know it's what the pros do, I just like keeping it simple and less expensive.
Jake, I would be very suspicious of BB archers who adjust their plungers for every distance. It sounds like they have built in an arrow launch error that they are compensating for.
In addition, one adjustment that you didn't mention was using the "other" plunger hole. Since your arrows are showing a "stiff reaction" if you move the plunger out of the rear hole into the forward hole, you will effectively make the dynamic length of the arrow longer, reducing the stiff reaction.
And another compensation is to put a turn on each limb, giving a better spine match. If that is not desirable, swapping out the arrow points for heavier ones, etc. All of which I am aware you know.
Oh, and I wish you had mentioned how one knows whether the resulting plunger setting is within an acceptable range. One of the things I check when meeting anew recurve student is their plunger pressure (that and whether their bow is "in plane," because if either is off the bow isn't given them good feedback, so it is restricting their learning.
Great work, young man! Keep it up!
Personally, I never suggest using the front hole as this dramatically affects the geometry of the bow itself and will cause erroneous left and right errors when inconsistent torque is applied.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery I think "enormous" is over stated. A long history with overdraws showed that short overdraws were not so error prone. (All such "inventions" have pros and cons.) The goal is to get a tune that doesn't need plunger adjustments for each distance. Most of the BB experts I have consulted recommend tuning for the longest distance being shot and then accepting the "detuning" that occurs with larger and larger crawls because those are made at shorter and shorter distances. Of course, if one is setting up an indoor bow, you don't have to consider shots at any other distance. I shot Compound Barebow for a while and the holy grail was to get an arrow setup that required no crawl. (That is too hard to do in Recurve Barebow, seemingly.) In any case, thanks for helping to fuel the resurrection of Barebow!
The over-draw affects are far less on compound, recurve they are actually banned.
Due to what I know, due to the testing I have performed over more than a decade, geometry is critical to forgiveness and consistency under pressure. The front plunger hole being used is an inadequate solution to a tuning issue that can be resolved with draw weight, arrow length or spine.
The vast majority of shooters won’t have the skills to notice the Negative affects of the front plunger hole. But there is a reason why essentially zero world class shooters use the front hole.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery Re "The front plunger hole being used is an inadequate solution to a tuning issue that can be resolved with draw weight, arrow length or spine. The vast majority of shooters won’t have the skills to notice the Negative affects of the front plunger hole." This is my point. (I do not work with elite archers, only talk over beer.) The advantage to that front hole for the non-elite archer is that it may help them find a good tune. From any good tune, it is easier to find a better tune than to find another good tune from scratch. And the cost of that change is zero. Spine changes in arrows can be simple and can be really expensive, same with draw weight (in new limbs are need, for example).
Also, there are but a few things you can do to test out what you think is wrong with a setup. This is what is so nice about plunger changes (as long as you have a good plunger, can be miserable with a cheap plunger): the changes are easy to do and then test to see if there is an effect (just as you showed in your video) and set back if there is not. As another example, I have a protocol to use to tune in new to you arrows. I have my students shoot bare shaft test at very close differences starting from the shafts being uncut. If chosen correctly, they should test weak. Then a cut les than one half of the way to the cut length suggested by the spine chart, and the test is redone. The shafts should now test less weak and buy how much the BSs moved closer to the fletched group, you can see how much farther you may need to cut. We did this proceeded with a student switching to ACEs at one point and we started with a cut less than half way to the recommended shaft length and the BSs ended up dead center with the fletched ones. If we had just jumped to the recommended cut length, that would have been almost $300 down the drain. (He later cut an additional 1/16 inch off after having shot the arrows for a couple of weeks (something else I recommend).)
There is a good video treatment on this on the DVD "Modern Traditional" by Ty Pelfrey and Scott Antczak, along with a lot of great tips on shooting Barebow on those challenging field courses.
I thought we were not allowed weight systems in Barebow. Competition
as a barebow shooter myself i have 1 simple question. you guys are grouping?
Ga bsa basa engresh
Me, an intuitive archer using a horse bow:".... ah, whaaat?"
"there is no manual"
well, there is "The Art of Stringwalking" book
That is true.
Can you double-like video? Because one is not enough..
Too much talking…..
Thank you Jake! Love the model of FREE information 🤘🇺🇸
With that being said how do I purchase merchandise from you? Ts hats etc.