@@gmod_scarries i genuinely think it’s the best knife on payload. stock watch, YER, and l’etranger. i get away with so much shit that wouldn’t be possible with stock (or with kunai + DR for that matter)
no it's actually completely okay to have more effective HP than heavy while still giving constant awareness pressure to the other team because you literally can't fucking die
No skill? Say that to my surf stabs 8) To be honest, this feels like a half baked Jontohil opinion. Most people who complain about kunai DR just have a skill issue. you can effectively counter them by playing soldier or scout. watch the flank, hunt them down when they are inevitably forced to decloak somewhere and abuse your damage output and mobility to outplay them. DR is an inherent disadvantage when it comes to playing knife focused gameplay against competent players. It’s trivial, really. Kunai DR is a fun weapon combo to focus on hyper aggressive knife gameplay, and is high key a skill check for the whole lobby.
Hey! I appreciate you spending time to say your opinion! I can see how hunting down the Dr could help... Also surf stabs are sick (remember how I only said most of them aren't good imo)
this might be the case in casual games where most people just started the game, but usually in servers eg uncletopia, Kunai + dr should be ur last spy loadout
Made some really good points. I’ve definitely overlooked the whole idea that spy is meant to be sneaky. Definitely gonna drop this loadout and pick something up that’s more stealthy. Great vid
The only knives and watches I respect are Stock, BE, YeR, Invis and C&D Edit: Also it takes one crit pipe and rocket to reduce that Spy to atoms (DR can shove it)
The video kinda gave off the vibe 'I just came out of an argument with a guy online about the Kunai + DR and lost'. I don't even play spy but I've noticed recently that more and more spy players are using cloak more. Hell id actually prefer vsing a dead ringer of a CnD spy, now that weapon is cowardly.
I didn't mean to come of in any bad way towards you personally. Its kinda like sniper, Is it strong? Yes. Is it lame? Yes. They're not exactly broken they are just in an 'awkward' spot. Not OP, just extremely lame.
@@mr.minion9247 was actually hearing this comment on my head as I made this. Uhh no I usually try not to argue with people when I'm mad, for the most part I made this to send to people when people talk about it. My opinion is my own, and you can have yours
tbh, the only times i use dead ringer is when im playing frontline spy (with enforcer, big earner, dead ringer and red tape recorder) Basically i play as gun spy first by disguising and shooting enemies for +20% dmg bonus, then once im nearing 50hp i pop dead ringer, use it to go behind enemy lines, backstab maybe one or two and repeat the process (by either dying or running back to the team) as for Kunai... nah, too crippling for noob like me
playing deadringer kunai is 100% not playing "normal" spy, and thats what great about it. The challenge of taking the class thats supposed to be sneaky and still being able to dominate while, well, not being sneaky is as fun as it is challenging. But man i can tell you 210 hp can disappear in a blink of an eye in tf2, not being able to always go invis with the deadringer is pretty much the biggest downside, a serious spy would never use deadringer, but an aggressive spy is all for it as it provides a speed boost to be even more aggressive. let me tell you, if your team is getting dominated by a deadringer kunai spy, then you wouldve gotten dominated no matter what loadout that spy was going to use. In the clip you showed where that soldier wasnt able to kill you, you couldve probably survive that with an invis watch just as easily considering he didnt have the best aim, but it is true that you have an easier escape with deadringer when a single, slower, target is hunting you down, but if there are multiple people shooting you, you are not going to survive unless their aim is shit and at that point you can just run away without even needing invis or if a scout is hunting you down, he can just run around in the backlines waiting to hear the loud ass noise the deadringer makes to get an easy kill, while with invis you couldve gotten back to your team by getting ammo packs on the way. Deadringer kunai is pretty much a skill check for both the spy and the team he is fighting against, if the spy is average and the enemy team is bad, he dominates, same if the spy is good and the enemies are average, but if both sides are on the same level, the spy is better of going invis watch or straight up full stock. ps. the songs are a bit too loud compared to your voice
Hey! I appreciate the feedback. Yeah, i def couldve survived that soldier with stock. I do see how it would be nice to play spy in another way. I still dislike the whole kunai thing, but im not telling people not to use it! I think that regardless of others opinions everyone should use what they enjoy (but i still think that it is very unbalenced) each their own, eh? ps ill work on the music thanks (:
do u remember the spy main andrewjr ? Some people might play more aggro resulting in this loadout such as me. NOT HATING. love you😘. respect ur opinion. I dont even have a choice i only have stock, icicle, and kunai
I feel like the problem is overplayed? because usually when I see a spy using that loadout they are usually quickly dealt with, regardless of them having 210 hp or not and yes, it definitely feeds of new players, but so does with every spy unlock (except the spycicle) big earner - speed boost (kill chain starter) YER - free disguise and unless that f2p is right beside the semi competent player you'll most likely die when stabbing the f2p as everyone on the opposing team (including your intended next target) notices you the combo can definitely feel like a crutch.. if that crutch was made out of q-tips because more often than not when a bad player uses that weapon combo they'll die more often in the long run than it saves them also where did you get that pyro airblast parry mod?
1) I appreciate you giving feedback! Yeah overplay could be the issue, and i respect you giving your opinion 2) gamebanana.com/mods/504356 is pyro airblast
Wow brah, eyes opened after this one. I learnt ive been playing this class entirely wrong, and all my apparent "skill" i thought i had just isnt there. Thank you for showing me how to really play spy, ill pick drop the 'nai and equip the knife after this one
I feel the need to make a response solely because videos like these keep getting traction and spy's unlocks eventually keep taking the fall. Regardless if this video is bait or not the tf2 community takes videos like these to heart and hate trains form. Because of events like the nerf of the ambassador i actually fear the kunai will get nerfed solely because of lack of counterarguments the spy community gives. To tldr my take; The kunai DR combo is used because its FUN. This video is just going to bring more unnecessary hate to already the weakest class. Spy is not immortal when using this set and is still subjected to spy restrictions. I don't find the combo broken but if there's anything wrong with the combo. Blame the DR. The long answer; Before i get called a DR+Kunai apologist, just know I'm a gun spy, its mostly what i play. And i can admit sometimes the combo can look frustrating to fight but please just hear me out. The kunai + DR has been popular because spy players find fun with chain stabs. This combo does not work against a competent team and is solely a pub stomp combo. The kunai+DR gives spy's an actual chance to push the limits of the class and display their knife skills and preform fun plays like surfs stabs. People saying "spy becomes immortal with this set and cannot die" are living in a vacuum where there's a bunch of inexperienced players feeding the spy stabs. Even within this vacuum, if a spy is getting fed stabs, spy is still subjected to getting 2 tapped by most things in the game(or one shot by crits, a mechanic that spy cannot benefit from and only suffers). I don't use the kunai DR often but when i do, its definitely not a "automatic win combo" you are forced into a feast or famine playstyle. When a soldier jumps into a bad spot he's going to get melted if he doesnt jump away, 200 HP is not a lot of damage when you think about TTK(time to kill) in tf2. Spy is already a pub stomp class regardless if he's using kunai DR or not so those inexperienced players are going to die to the spy regardless of what he's using. Opinions like these are so half assed because they will never be applied to other classes. Ok spy shouldn't be a so called "tank" with these items like how people talk about. Maybe soldier/demo shouldn't be able to assassinate people with the market gardener/demoknight. Maybe sniper shouldn't have close range 360's with the huntsman. Maybe engineer shouldn't be a front lining DM class with the frontier justice + gunslinger. When you apply this line of reasoning to other classes it sounds silly and completely ruins the concept of sidegrade playstyles in tf2, something that's been a major contributing factor to its lifespan. These type of videos just spread more propaganda levels of hate toward the spy and this is why spy players over the years have abandoned the game because opinions like these surface, take storm and completely ruin ways to have fun. For the record, if there's ANYTHING wrong with the combo. Please for the love of god, BLAME THE DEAD RINGER. Ever since they added the speed boost and fire resistance the watch has been in a brain dead state. I can't stand seeing these kunai hate videos/opinions surfacing because the hate is completely undeserved because very few will take the time and energy to get good at spy and recognize the struggle it can be to play the class. SPY IS THE WEAKEST CLASS WHY ARE WE SO FOCUSED ON NERFING HIM BEFORE THINKING ABOUT BUFFS. I'm not trying to be toxic like how spy mains are falsely portrayed as, i just don't want the class i spent nearly 3k hours on to be crumbled by popular opinion. The kunai + DR is seen a lot not because its broken or "meta", its cause it's fun.
I like your opinion here and how you worded it. I really felt "are living in a vacuum where there's a bunch of inexperienced players feeding the spy stabs." (I play casual) While i disagree, I can accept that others have other opinions
Disagree with what exactly? i made many points to hopefully try and show you why hating the combo is just disingenuous. Spy is annoying by nature and stating "he's not playing spy how the community says he should" is just going to discourage anybody from mastering spy.
I used to play with the classic weeb kunai + dead ringer + ambassador loadout, but nowadays I'm playing with stock invis watch and l'etranger, and man it's a whole different play style. So much better to play and I became able to play as spy against better players besides f2p. The only thing I disagree with the video is when you say that DR is easy to play in any match. DR + kunai is easy to play only against f2p. When you are against a team with fully functional brain people, dead ringer becomes useless. Anyways, great video.
I feel like the kunai gets too much hate when the dr and its 65% (I think) dmg reduction is the real problem, if you have base 70 hp and then use the dr, you nearly fully tank the first hit with 90% dmg reduction on activation, and then you have almost as much effective hp as using the knife with NO dmg reduction at all which is pretty busted, personally I just use the invis watch bc I hate getting caught with my pants down when my dr meter isn't full and also not being able to get behind the enemy without just throwing myself at them with the dr and and basically announcing I AM A SPY, I AM INVISIBLE, AND I AM CURRENTLY IN YOUR BACK LINE, PLEASE SPYCHECK AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE FOR THE NEXT COUPLE MINUTES.
@@PhantomDogman it's a mod. It allows me to see what weapon I have at the same time as giving me more view. It is part of flawhud, combined with mastercomfig
@@dragonterror I think it's at least in grey area for cheating. But maybe there's a little to no impact how much you play better then who doesn't use it. But if it gives significant boost for you then it's moves towards that it's cheating.
Nah, I suggest we buff the Cloak and Dagger. This would make spy a main line power class. Stats +1000% health +1000% damage reduction and backstab immunity +200% speed boost No Knockback taken Provided with 5 jumps If you see someone, they perish due to a mobile backstab. 100X cap rate. Nearby teammates get 200% damage resistance with backstab immunity and passive healing with ammo replenishment. Oh yea, and to make it balanced, we give him -1000% accuracy while reading a book to make things fair. This will offset the game balance and give Kunai Dead Ringer players a better chance to actually play the game. This is the best way to do it (lies). Shitpost :D
Kunai should be nerfed to its pre 2015 buff where you remove the minimum 75 hp gain and making it more of a SIDEGRADE rather than a straight upgrade from stock also the max health should be reduced to its pre 2015 buff of 195 so trolldiers or random crits can actually kill the spy
If you're going to call this an opinion video, please title it properly. "Why I Think the Kunai + DR is a No Skill Loadout" is a great way to mark your video as some r/tf2 user's uninformed opinion instead of a well-founded and productive discussion of the set.
@@SnakeandKnives probably a good idea, but also this gets clicks (and I genuinely don't know how to change things, I don't do the whole after upload editing thing) I'll make sure I do this with my next video like this though!
I don’t completely agree with your viewpoint but I do agree about some players using this loadout. Kunai and Deadringer does take skill, it’s easy to use but hard to master. I would say that if you’re a spy and you use both your gun and knife to trickstab or gun down enemy players then you can for sure be a common top score in any lobby. There’s no such things as spies having to always fulfil their role in playing sneaky, sometimes different play styles are encouraged to reign in victory. Great video otherwise!
i already did with the jontohil one (why kunai is fine as it is) heres like 3 reasons why you're unequivocally wrong though at least about your opinion 1. the health is a tool that you can use to surf damage out of situations 2. spy when revealed is a victim of focus fire which will get you killed immediately even with 210 hp; DR makes it less miserable 3. kunai dr may promote a less sneaky playstyle, but it also promotes a more engaged playstyle at the same time (trickstabs, dont really have to explain why you see spies with thousands of hours on their class, its because its really that indepth) stop blaming the kunai dr combo and start blaming the spies who use it as a "stab one player and Deadring out until you find another person and deadring out again" weapon, you're confusing kunai dr with just bad spy players killing bad players and misusing the combo even then i barely see any spies play kunai DR like that (in the example you show in your video) any spy would see that soldier and decide to surf off their rocket either to surfstab the solly or to surf away from him and save their DR for a more important utilization, like in a focus fire situation.
@@GREGFRAGS hey, I appreciate you taking your time to actually say some things, that's a lot more than 90% of people. I can see those points, but I do personally stick to my own opinion of the kunai) also why is everyone mentioning jonotihil? One person said it, I searched it up and now everyone is saying it
@@dragonterror you said so in the video and how a spy shouldnt be able to survive a heavy and should just die. but if i have the option to live then id rather choose that🤣
I only run dead ringer when im confident i can literally run into behidn my enemies without being invisible, otherwise i just use stock cloak However im always running enforcer and kunai because le funny strange pro ks kunai and gifted strange spec ks enforcer (yes, i still run enforcer when using dr)
1:14 I hate this argument because I am a natural contrarian and I hear this in every anti dr/anti kunai video. I will not be sneaky sir I will instead be a pseudo katana demoknight and you CANNOT stop me
This combo would be amazing if the spy can't facetank damage after a fail backstab, or your teammates being so ignorant they just offer their backs to the low health spy who you work so hard to lower his health. Utterly stupid crutch. I prefer the spycicle or big earner or stock any day of the week.
@@dragonterror you formulated your statements really poorly in the video while regurgitating whatever made sense to you. Judging from your clips, you play pyro. You of all people should be best equipped to take out even one kunai dr spy. I might be missing a few things, but you very much need to formulate your ideas alot better. it would be helpful if you proofread what you want to say instead of winging it.
@@dragonterror And very false. Many spies who actually know the game and mechanics can get away after a few stabs. it is far more common to see a compitent spy run in and get two or more stabs. judging from the blabber you said in your sloppy video, you are talking about mediocre dr kunai spies with "egos", (this part very much just sounded like random adlibs from tf2 players), many mediocre and even horrible spies can get stabs and get away with it
@@dragonterror alot of what you said in the video makes me believe you really dont understand the game well enough to know what works against spies. but please feel free to correct any errors i mightve made.
@@cakecantaim that is what I was saying, good spies CAN get away with a stab, the kunai makes it infinitely easier. I really don't feel like arguing about it, to each their own
@@dragonterror no, you are not allowed to have opinions when they are this stupid, poorly argumented, and uninformed garbage opinions. This is just bait for people that have no idea how spy actually functions and want to hate on the class as cope for their own incompetence instead of trying it for themselves. Which doesn't surprise me because you also have no idea of how spy actually functions. You have : - 710 hours on TF2 - 58.9 hours on spy, you are not even remotly qualified to talk about it. - 227 most health leached in one life which means purely using that kunai+dr combo you hate so much you where never able to get more than 3 stabs (which factually disproves your argument but I'm not here to disprove you, there's a million ways to do this, I'm here to out you as a brain-dead clickbaiter who spends way too much time on reddit and has no clue what he's talking about) - from your comments and reactions to criticism in this comment section it is obvious that you do not take well to criticism and don't understand sarcasm as I've seen you mistaking people who are supporting you as being agaisnt you and responding and taking people seriously when they are in fact mocking you EVEN GOING AS FAR AS TO CHANGE THE TITLE OF YOUR VIDEO FROM A SARCASTIC SUGGESTION THAT YOU TOOK SERIOUSLY LMAO. (at time of writing title is : "Why Kunai+Deadringer is a no skill loadout (Opinion, obviously. People need to learn to chill out)") - what you repeatedly call an opinion around your video (in the comments and title, never in the actual video) is in the video nothing but a hodge podge of missinformed bs, insults, and stereotypes, rendered in video format through the lense of a brain dead reddit addict who's coping that he can't get good at spy but is too prideful to ask advice from better spies than himself so he'd rather attack and attempt to degrade them to bring them down to his level which is much easier to do than trying to climb to theirs - you also delete comments so I'd argue more but I don't feel like wasting more of my time writing this than I already have because not only will nothing get through your thick skull but you also might very well delete this so why would I keep putting more effort into this single comment than you put on your entire video ? (fyi I only rarely use kunai or dr, I'm more fond of eternal reward or stock, there are many valid criticism to make about kunai+dr : you have made none of them)
@@dragonterror I will now proceed to repost a very correct comment, deleted by yours truly, dragonterror, orginally posted by jozefuhasis1338 : You are a genuine idiot. You had 4 minutes to show me this no-skill, crutch of a synergy that makes you invincible and gives you tons of free kills, yet you don't have a single clip where it helped you survive, let alone get extra kills. So you're either too shit to use a crutch, which is an insult to bury one self for that you've directed at yourself, or you have no idea what you're talking about. Hell, at 0:25 where you obnoxiously spouted your non-arguments, you could have survived that with stock. I've heard the kunai is OP, unfun to fight against, unfair to fight against, and you'd have infinitely more merit arguing any one of those than arguing it's a crutch. It's a weapon useful only if you're significantly better than the enemy team, and even then it requires a special playstyle. It's the exact opposite of a crutch. And of course, we have the "spy is supposed to be sneaky". We're not in 2009 debating the deadringer. Spy hasn't been exclusively stealthy for 15 years, and if it's taking your head that long to catch up, know that there's a word for it. Yeah, they'll try to keep the health chain going. It's know how the weapon is used. I don't know why you're so ungodly salty about them not fighting razorback snipers. The deadringer takes 20 seconds to recharge from 0. In the meantime, you're extremely vulnerable with other knives, and are effectively dead with the kunai. If you think (an unfamiliar activity to you) that using the deadringer on par with death makes an ez crutch loadout, then I don't know what to tell you.
@@dragonterror So you get to have your "opinion" but I clearly can't because you keep deleting me and other people's comments if they disagree with you too hard, very cool.
The argument that you ‘aren’t playing spy’ confuses me. A lot of the classes have different playstyles for weapons that contradict how the class is *supposed* to be played, regardless of how unbalanced or out of place it is to said class. A lot of people will also argue that it’s too easy or too simple for the class. Realistically, it doesn’t matter. There’s plenty of other easy/unbalanced weapons to use like the phlog or the short circuit. Yes, a lot of people will use these weapons, and they can definitely be a crutch for some players. I’m not going to deny that they are annoying to deal with because in some cases they are completely unbalanced. Ultimately it all boils down to the class that this weapon combo is used by; spy. It’s really not that hard to kill spies regardless of what weapons they’re using, even if they are tedious. They will always be outmatched by a heavy or consistent spychecking. Spy doesn’t have to be sneaky, soldier doesn’t have to shoot rockets at you, heavy doesn’t have to use his minigun, etc. I personally think that people overhate certain play styles when it really all boils down to fun. If I can get a bit of dopamine from getting a few chainkills, I will, and I’ll do it shamelessly. The thrill of being ‘overpowered’ as spy can be really fun. At the end of the day, you shouldn’t over stress the play style of any class just because of the toxic ones that you encounter. That contradicts everything that the developers of tf2 had established by not patching glitches that acted as game mechanics. This isn’t Overwatch and not all classes are limited to one playstyle, overpowered or underpowered.
All good! Spy mains are extremely low skill already, but valve also giving them something that just makes them not want to die even more, as well as making them escape when they are low on hp, making them invisible and take less damage, low skill at its finest for spy mains.
![A Cheater SO Mad He Went THIS Far.. [TF2 Hacker Police]](/img/n.gif)
Just a reminder! This video is just my opinion! Everyone can have their own.
your opinion is bad and you spelled their wrong
@@thegarfunkle 1) Cry and 2) I used the right their?
@@dragonterror nice edit
real men use your eternal reward and nothing else
@@gmod_scarries i genuinely think it’s the best knife on payload. stock watch, YER, and l’etranger. i get away with so much shit that wouldn’t be possible with stock (or with kunai + DR for that matter)
based
Based and Reward-pilled
yooooo YER enjoyer
@@gmod_scarries YER is best knife on payload, lets you get away with shit u rly should not be able to + rly good at demolishing engie nests
no it's actually completely okay to have more effective HP than heavy while still giving constant awareness pressure to the other team because you literally can't fucking die
No skill? Say that to my surf stabs 8) To be honest, this feels like a half baked Jontohil opinion. Most people who complain about kunai DR just have a skill issue. you can effectively counter them by playing soldier or scout. watch the flank, hunt them down when they are inevitably forced to decloak somewhere and abuse your damage output and mobility to outplay them.
DR is an inherent disadvantage when it comes to playing knife focused gameplay against competent players. It’s trivial, really. Kunai DR is a fun weapon combo to focus on hyper aggressive knife gameplay, and is high key a skill check for the whole lobby.
Hey! I appreciate you spending time to say your opinion! I can see how hunting down the Dr could help... Also surf stabs are sick (remember how I only said most of them aren't good imo)
@@MOOtf2 yea, all it really takes is one decent scout or soldier that watches the back lines to shut down a DR spy lol
this might be the case in casual games where most people just started the game, but usually in servers eg uncletopia, Kunai + dr should be ur last spy loadout
Made some really good points. I’ve definitely overlooked the whole idea that spy is meant to be sneaky. Definitely gonna drop this loadout and pick something up that’s more stealthy. Great vid
@@bunstie5208 don't change your ways just because of me, this is only my opinion!
The only knives and watches I respect are Stock, BE, YeR, Invis and C&D
Edit: Also it takes one crit pipe and rocket to reduce that Spy to atoms (DR can shove it)
The video kinda gave off the vibe 'I just came out of an argument with a guy online about the Kunai + DR and lost'. I don't even play spy but I've noticed recently that more and more spy players are using cloak more. Hell id actually prefer vsing a dead ringer of a CnD spy, now that weapon is cowardly.
I didn't mean to come of in any bad way towards you personally. Its kinda like sniper, Is it strong? Yes. Is it lame? Yes. They're not exactly broken they are just in an 'awkward' spot. Not OP, just extremely lame.
@@mr.minion9247 was actually hearing this comment on my head as I made this. Uhh no I usually try not to argue with people when I'm mad, for the most part I made this to send to people when people talk about it. My opinion is my own, and you can have yours
Also btw thought to say, I respect you for actually saying your opinion. Most people don't do that or are sheep that follow whoever they are with
tbh, the only times i use dead ringer is when im playing frontline spy (with enforcer, big earner, dead ringer and red tape recorder)
Basically i play as gun spy first by disguising and shooting enemies for +20% dmg bonus, then once im nearing 50hp i pop dead ringer, use it to go behind enemy lines, backstab maybe one or two and repeat the process (by either dying or running back to the team)
as for Kunai... nah, too crippling for noob like me
playing deadringer kunai is 100% not playing "normal" spy, and thats what great about it. The challenge of taking the class thats supposed to be sneaky and still being able to dominate while, well, not being sneaky is as fun as it is challenging. But man i can tell you 210 hp can disappear in a blink of an eye in tf2, not being able to always go invis with the deadringer is pretty much the biggest downside, a serious spy would never use deadringer, but an aggressive spy is all for it as it provides a speed boost to be even more aggressive. let me tell you, if your team is getting dominated by a deadringer kunai spy, then you wouldve gotten dominated no matter what loadout that spy was going to use.
In the clip you showed where that soldier wasnt able to kill you, you couldve probably survive that with an invis watch just as easily considering he didnt have the best aim, but it is true that you have an easier escape with deadringer when a single, slower, target is hunting you down, but if there are multiple people shooting you, you are not going to survive unless their aim is shit and at that point you can just run away without even needing invis or if a scout is hunting you down, he can just run around in the backlines waiting to hear the loud ass noise the deadringer makes to get an easy kill, while with invis you couldve gotten back to your team by getting ammo packs on the way.
Deadringer kunai is pretty much a skill check for both the spy and the team he is fighting against, if the spy is average and the enemy team is bad, he dominates, same if the spy is good and the enemies are average, but if both sides are on the same level, the spy is better of going invis watch or straight up full stock.
ps. the songs are a bit too loud compared to your voice
Hey! I appreciate the feedback. Yeah, i def couldve survived that soldier with stock. I do see how it would be nice to play spy in another way. I still dislike the whole kunai thing, but im not telling people not to use it! I think that regardless of others opinions everyone should use what they enjoy (but i still think that it is very unbalenced)
each their own, eh?
ps ill work on the music thanks (:
Kunai dr spies when item service is down (they can't land a backstab, sneak, or shoot)
Johntohil2 has a similar opinion, especially with the dead ringer.
do u remember the spy main andrewjr ? Some people might play more aggro resulting in this loadout such as me. NOT HATING. love you😘. respect ur opinion. I dont even have a choice i only have stock, icicle, and kunai
I remember u (:
I feel like the problem is overplayed?
because usually when I see a spy using that loadout they are usually quickly dealt with, regardless of them having 210 hp or not
and yes, it definitely feeds of new players, but so does with every spy unlock (except the spycicle)
big earner - speed boost (kill chain starter)
YER - free disguise
and unless that f2p is right beside the semi competent player you'll most likely die when stabbing the f2p as everyone on the opposing team (including your intended next target) notices you
the combo can definitely feel like a crutch.. if that crutch was made out of q-tips because more often than not when a bad player uses that weapon combo they'll die more often in the long run than it saves them
also where did you get that pyro airblast parry mod?
1) I appreciate you giving feedback! Yeah overplay could be the issue, and i respect you giving your opinion
2) gamebanana.com/mods/504356 is pyro airblast
Wow brah, eyes opened after this one. I learnt ive been playing this class entirely wrong, and all my apparent "skill" i thought i had just isnt there. Thank you for showing me how to really play spy, ill pick drop the 'nai and equip the knife after this one
Hey, to each their own
Default knife and invis watch - best knife and watch, change my mind.
perfect if you don't want anything special and just want to. . .
play spy.
I feel the need to make a response solely because videos like these keep getting traction and spy's unlocks eventually keep taking the fall. Regardless if this video is bait or not the tf2 community takes videos like these to heart and hate trains form. Because of events like the nerf of the ambassador i actually fear the kunai will get nerfed solely because of lack of counterarguments the spy community gives.
To tldr my take;
The kunai DR combo is used because its FUN. This video is just going to bring more unnecessary hate to already the weakest class. Spy is not immortal when using this set and is still subjected to spy restrictions. I don't find the combo broken but if there's anything wrong with the combo. Blame the DR.
The long answer;
Before i get called a DR+Kunai apologist, just know I'm a gun spy, its mostly what i play. And i can admit sometimes the combo can look frustrating to fight but please just hear me out.
The kunai + DR has been popular because spy players find fun with chain stabs. This combo does not work against a competent team and is solely a pub stomp combo. The kunai+DR gives spy's an actual chance to push the limits of the class and display their knife skills and preform fun plays like surfs stabs. People saying "spy becomes immortal with this set and cannot die" are living in a vacuum where there's a bunch of inexperienced players feeding the spy stabs. Even within this vacuum, if a spy is getting fed stabs, spy is still subjected to getting 2 tapped by most things in the game(or one shot by crits, a mechanic that spy cannot benefit from and only suffers). I don't use the kunai DR often but when i do, its definitely not a "automatic win combo" you are forced into a feast or famine playstyle. When a soldier jumps into a bad spot he's going to get melted if he doesnt jump away, 200 HP is not a lot of damage when you think about TTK(time to kill) in tf2. Spy is already a pub stomp class regardless if he's using kunai DR or not so those inexperienced players are going to die to the spy regardless of what he's using.
Opinions like these are so half assed because they will never be applied to other classes. Ok spy shouldn't be a so called "tank" with these items like how people talk about. Maybe soldier/demo shouldn't be able to assassinate people with the market gardener/demoknight. Maybe sniper shouldn't have close range 360's with the huntsman. Maybe engineer shouldn't be a front lining DM class with the frontier justice + gunslinger. When you apply this line of reasoning to other classes it sounds silly and completely ruins the concept of sidegrade playstyles in tf2, something that's been a major contributing factor to its lifespan.
These type of videos just spread more propaganda levels of hate toward the spy and this is why spy players over the years have abandoned the game because opinions like these surface, take storm and completely ruin ways to have fun. For the record, if there's ANYTHING wrong with the combo. Please for the love of god, BLAME THE DEAD RINGER. Ever since they added the speed boost and fire resistance the watch has been in a brain dead state. I can't stand seeing these kunai hate videos/opinions surfacing because the hate is completely undeserved because very few will take the time and energy to get good at spy and recognize the struggle it can be to play the class. SPY IS THE WEAKEST CLASS WHY ARE WE SO FOCUSED ON NERFING HIM BEFORE THINKING ABOUT BUFFS.
I'm not trying to be toxic like how spy mains are falsely portrayed as, i just don't want the class i spent nearly 3k hours on to be crumbled by popular opinion. The kunai + DR is seen a lot not because its broken or "meta", its cause it's fun.
I like your opinion here and how you worded it.
I really felt "are living in a vacuum where there's a bunch of inexperienced players feeding the spy stabs."
(I play casual)
While i disagree, I can accept that others have other opinions
Disagree with what exactly? i made many points to hopefully try and show you why hating the combo is just disingenuous. Spy is annoying by nature and stating "he's not playing spy how the community says he should" is just going to discourage anybody from mastering spy.
@@Mrzz7 idk I just disagree. I do I, you do you
XD.
good combo bad reputation
Good combo sure but are you even playing spy if you use it
@@dragonterror y e s .
@@dragonterror you are playing french guy with a knife
I used to play with the classic weeb kunai + dead ringer + ambassador loadout, but nowadays I'm playing with stock invis watch and l'etranger, and man it's a whole different play style. So much better to play and I became able to play as spy against better players besides f2p. The only thing I disagree with the video is when you say that DR is easy to play in any match. DR + kunai is easy to play only against f2p. When you are against a team with fully functional brain people, dead ringer becomes useless. Anyways, great video.
Real one right here
I feel like the kunai gets too much hate when the dr and its 65% (I think) dmg reduction is the real problem, if you have base 70 hp and then use the dr, you nearly fully tank the first hit with 90% dmg reduction on activation, and then you have almost as much effective hp as using the knife with NO dmg reduction at all which is pretty busted, personally I just use the invis watch bc I hate getting caught with my pants down when my dr meter isn't full and also not being able to get behind the enemy without just throwing myself at them with the dr and and basically announcing I AM A SPY, I AM INVISIBLE, AND I AM CURRENTLY IN YOUR BACK LINE, PLEASE SPYCHECK AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE FOR THE NEXT COUPLE MINUTES.
@@zypherion516 that is a good way of thinking about it! Yeah I get the same feeling with DR
Kunai and Dead Ringer is Spy on easy mode. 0 respect.
Why weapons and hands are transparent even when your not a spy in gameplay footage? Your phone irl is transparent or even your hands?
@@PhantomDogman it's a mod. It allows me to see what weapon I have at the same time as giving me more view. It is part of flawhud, combined with mastercomfig
what is wrong with that?
@@dragonterror I think it's at least in grey area for cheating. But maybe there's a little to no impact how much you play better then who doesn't use it.
But if it gives significant boost for you then it's moves towards that it's cheating.
It's really not because you can disable them entirely, I just went halfway
I like the big earner and stock, never even touched the kunai tbh so ima say your right.
@@Lobotimite2007 thanks! But it is best to form your own opinions, right?
Nah, I suggest we buff the Cloak and Dagger. This would make spy a main line power class.
Stats
+1000% health
+1000% damage reduction and backstab immunity
+200% speed boost
No Knockback taken
Provided with 5 jumps
If you see someone, they perish due to a mobile backstab. 100X cap rate. Nearby teammates get 200% damage resistance with backstab immunity and passive healing with ammo replenishment.
Oh yea, and to make it balanced, we give him -1000% accuracy while reading a book to make things fair.
This will offset the game balance and give Kunai Dead Ringer players a better chance to actually play the game.
This is the best way to do it (lies). Shitpost :D
I don’t think someone has 0 skill just because they like two weapons together
Hey! To each their own, eh? (Also respect for saying your opinion, not many do)
Kunai should be nerfed to its pre 2015 buff where you remove the minimum 75 hp gain and making it more of a SIDEGRADE rather than a straight upgrade from stock also the max health should be reduced to its pre 2015 buff of 195 so trolldiers or random crits can actually kill the spy
If you're going to call this an opinion video, please title it properly. "Why I Think the Kunai + DR is a No Skill Loadout" is a great way to mark your video as some r/tf2 user's uninformed opinion instead of a well-founded and productive discussion of the set.
@@SnakeandKnives probably a good idea, but also this gets clicks (and I genuinely don't know how to change things, I don't do the whole after upload editing thing) I'll make sure I do this with my next video like this though!
I figured out how to do it, thanks for the idea
I don’t completely agree with your viewpoint but I do agree about some players using this loadout. Kunai and Deadringer does take skill, it’s easy to use but hard to master. I would say that if you’re a spy and you use both your gun and knife to trickstab or gun down enemy players then you can for sure be a common top score in any lobby. There’s no such things as spies having to always fulfil their role in playing sneaky, sometimes different play styles are encouraged to reign in victory. Great video otherwise!
@@vampyreux appreciate the feedback!
you are so right
Spy Time Played
58.9 hrs
Most played class, actually.
not a hard feat with 700 hours on the game
@@GREGFRAGS what's funny is that you are here just arguing about it. Make a video of your own of you care so much, my opinion is mine
i already did with the jontohil one (why kunai is fine as it is)
heres like 3 reasons why you're unequivocally wrong though at least about your opinion
1. the health is a tool that you can use to surf damage out of situations
2. spy when revealed is a victim of focus fire which will get you killed immediately even with 210 hp; DR makes it less miserable
3. kunai dr may promote a less sneaky playstyle, but it also promotes a more engaged playstyle at the same time (trickstabs, dont really have to explain why you see spies with thousands of hours on their class, its because its really that indepth)
stop blaming the kunai dr combo and start blaming the spies who use it as a "stab one player and Deadring out until you find another person and deadring out again" weapon, you're confusing kunai dr with just bad spy players killing bad players and misusing the combo
even then i barely see any spies play kunai DR like that (in the example you show in your video) any spy would see that soldier and decide to surf off their rocket either to surfstab the solly or to surf away from him and save their DR for a more important utilization, like in a focus fire situation.
@@GREGFRAGS hey, I appreciate you taking your time to actually say some things, that's a lot more than 90% of people. I can see those points, but I do personally stick to my own opinion of the kunai) also why is everyone mentioning jonotihil? One person said it, I searched it up and now everyone is saying it
fair enough but more fun to make the weakest class actually viable without playing it as a walking sim
@@gelvo that is a good point (imo he is weak for a reason)
@@dragonterror you said so in the video and how a spy shouldnt be able to survive a heavy and should just die. but if i have the option to live then id rather choose that🤣
@@gelvo fair lol
I only run dead ringer when im confident i can literally run into behidn my enemies without being invisible, otherwise i just use stock cloak
However im always running enforcer and kunai because le funny strange pro ks kunai and gifted strange spec ks enforcer (yes, i still run enforcer when using dr)
Phlog + Scorch Shot is still worse than
@@anonymouscheesepie3768 i disagree
Yer and cloak n dagger is most skill loadout in my opinion
Argument: Spy shouldn't use K+DR because spy is supposed to be sneaky. Very smart!
Spy tf quake 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spy tf2
1:14 I hate this argument because I am a natural contrarian and I hear this in every anti dr/anti kunai video. I will not be sneaky sir I will instead be a pseudo katana demoknight and you CANNOT stop me
Hey, to each their own, eh?
(also, i dont watch other tf2 youtubers, so uhh)
based
This combo would be amazing if the spy can't facetank damage after a fail backstab, or your teammates being so ignorant they just offer their backs to the low health spy who you work so hard to lower his health. Utterly stupid crutch. I prefer the spycicle or big earner or stock any day of the week.
@@zeroakira584 that's exactly what I think!
Hear me out…. Kunai death ringer + diamond back. It’s much worse
based video. spy shouldn't be a juggernaut that can tank a full melee crit and get away with it while also having the ability to instakill
"unkillable because of 200 hp"
"spies who run in and die after getting one stab"
this combo is broke and a crutch! > spies who use this suck > repeat
Spies die after getting one stab when using stock, if you actually listened. I can have my opinion
@@dragonterror you formulated your statements really poorly in the video while regurgitating whatever made sense to you. Judging from your clips, you play pyro. You of all people should be best equipped to take out even one kunai dr spy. I might be missing a few things, but you very much need to formulate your ideas alot better. it would be helpful if you proofread what you want to say instead of winging it.
@@dragonterror And very false. Many spies who actually know the game and mechanics can get away after a few stabs. it is far more common to see a compitent spy run in and get two or more stabs. judging from the blabber you said in your sloppy video, you are talking about mediocre dr kunai spies with "egos", (this part very much just sounded like random adlibs from tf2 players), many mediocre and even horrible spies can get stabs and get away with it
@@dragonterror alot of what you said in the video makes me believe you really dont understand the game well enough to know what works against spies. but please feel free to correct any errors i mightve made.
@@cakecantaim that is what I was saying, good spies CAN get away with a stab, the kunai makes it infinitely easier. I really don't feel like arguing about it, to each their own
Is this video and comment section satire or is this really what the TF2 community has become ?
@@Cesar_123_ uhh this is what I think about the kunai. Idk about the comments
Am i not allowed to have opionions?
@@dragonterror no, you are not allowed to have opinions when they are this stupid, poorly argumented, and uninformed garbage opinions. This is just bait for people that have no idea how spy actually functions and want to hate on the class as cope for their own incompetence instead of trying it for themselves. Which doesn't surprise me because you also have no idea of how spy actually functions. You have :
- 710 hours on TF2
- 58.9 hours on spy, you are not even remotly qualified to talk about it.
- 227 most health leached in one life which means purely using that kunai+dr combo you hate so much you where never able to get more than 3 stabs (which factually disproves your argument but I'm not here to disprove you, there's a million ways to do this, I'm here to out you as a brain-dead clickbaiter who spends way too much time on reddit and has no clue what he's talking about)
- from your comments and reactions to criticism in this comment section it is obvious that you do not take well to criticism and don't understand sarcasm as I've seen you mistaking people who are supporting you as being agaisnt you and responding and taking people seriously when they are in fact mocking you EVEN GOING AS FAR AS TO CHANGE THE TITLE OF YOUR VIDEO FROM A SARCASTIC SUGGESTION THAT YOU TOOK SERIOUSLY LMAO. (at time of writing title is : "Why Kunai+Deadringer is a no skill loadout (Opinion, obviously. People need to learn to chill out)")
- what you repeatedly call an opinion around your video (in the comments and title, never in the actual video) is in the video nothing but a hodge podge of missinformed bs, insults, and stereotypes, rendered in video format through the lense of a brain dead reddit addict who's coping that he can't get good at spy but is too prideful to ask advice from better spies than himself so he'd rather attack and attempt to degrade them to bring them down to his level which is much easier to do than trying to climb to theirs
- you also delete comments so I'd argue more but I don't feel like wasting more of my time writing this than I already have because not only will nothing get through your thick skull but you also might very well delete this so why would I keep putting more effort into this single comment than you put on your entire video ?
(fyi I only rarely use kunai or dr, I'm more fond of eternal reward or stock, there are many valid criticism to make about kunai+dr : you have made none of them)
@@dragonterror I will now proceed to repost a very correct comment, deleted by yours truly, dragonterror, orginally posted by jozefuhasis1338 :
You are a genuine idiot. You had 4 minutes to show me this no-skill, crutch of a synergy that makes you invincible and gives you tons of free kills, yet you don't have a single clip where it helped you survive, let alone get extra kills. So you're either too shit to use a crutch, which is an insult to bury one self for that you've directed at yourself, or you have no idea what you're talking about. Hell, at 0:25 where you obnoxiously spouted your non-arguments, you could have survived that with stock.
I've heard the kunai is OP, unfun to fight against, unfair to fight against, and you'd have infinitely more merit arguing any one of those than arguing it's a crutch. It's a weapon useful only if you're significantly better than the enemy team, and even then it requires a special playstyle. It's the exact opposite of a crutch.
And of course, we have the "spy is supposed to be sneaky". We're not in 2009 debating the deadringer. Spy hasn't been exclusively stealthy for 15 years, and if it's taking your head that long to catch up, know that there's a word for it.
Yeah, they'll try to keep the health chain going. It's know how the weapon is used. I don't know why you're so ungodly salty about them not fighting razorback snipers.
The deadringer takes 20 seconds to recharge from 0. In the meantime, you're extremely vulnerable with other knives, and are effectively dead with the kunai. If you think (an unfamiliar activity to you) that using the deadringer on par with death makes an ez crutch loadout, then I don't know what to tell you.
@@dragonterror So you get to have your "opinion" but I clearly can't because you keep deleting me and other people's comments if they disagree with you too hard, very cool.
I like the video, but i can't hear shit from how loud the music is.
My bad, I'll make sure I turn it down more for the next one!
I absolutely _despise_ kunai dr spies
Someone hurt you badly :\
Hey, my option is my own. Cry all you like
i disagree tbh
Ur not even spying at this point
Gonna drop a whole info dump about this because I want to lol
The argument that you ‘aren’t playing spy’ confuses me. A lot of the classes have different playstyles for weapons that contradict how the class is *supposed* to be played, regardless of how unbalanced or out of place it is to said class. A lot of people will also argue that it’s too easy or too simple for the class. Realistically, it doesn’t matter. There’s plenty of other easy/unbalanced weapons to use like the phlog or the short circuit. Yes, a lot of people will use these weapons, and they can definitely be a crutch for some players. I’m not going to deny that they are annoying to deal with because in some cases they are completely unbalanced. Ultimately it all boils down to the class that this weapon combo is used by; spy. It’s really not that hard to kill spies regardless of what weapons they’re using, even if they are tedious. They will always be outmatched by a heavy or consistent spychecking. Spy doesn’t have to be sneaky, soldier doesn’t have to shoot rockets at you, heavy doesn’t have to use his minigun, etc. I personally think that people overhate certain play styles when it really all boils down to fun. If I can get a bit of dopamine from getting a few chainkills, I will, and I’ll do it shamelessly. The thrill of being ‘overpowered’ as spy can be really fun. At the end of the day, you shouldn’t over stress the play style of any class just because of the toxic ones that you encounter. That contradicts everything that the developers of tf2 had established by not patching glitches that acted as game mechanics. This isn’t Overwatch and not all classes are limited to one playstyle, overpowered or underpowered.
@@triple_check uhh agree to disagree 🤷♂️
@@triple_check I mean I did the same thing but in video form
wtf jontohil son reveal
who tf is that
I looked him up bro has simliar opions les go
Work on your audio mixing
Ok! Appreciate the feedback!
0:45 is a ginormous red flag that this is no longer an opinion lmfao
Pfp says it all
i lik big erner
bro had one bad expierence
@@Koyoinu3D not really, I personally main spy. (Or at least, my most hours are on him.) This is my opinion and I'm not gonna argue it
Low skill bottom text
@@Theredmeteor4 meh knew this video would have people like that (Edit: ignore, misunderstood)
??? I am agreeing with you...
@@Theredmeteor4 oh! I misread this as you saying I was low skill! Sorry
All good! Spy mains are extremely low skill already, but valve also giving them something that just makes them not want to die even more, as well as making them escape when they are low on hp, making them invisible and take less damage, low skill at its finest for spy mains.
@@Theredmeteor4 whoa whoa whoa spy himself is high skill (as a spy main i have to say this)
Sorry bro next time I’ll play spy like Mr paladin just so some random pubber main doesn’t say I have no skill 👍
@@kroczgod lol, sorry man this is just my own opinion
They need to make it so you can only equip one of the items at a time , shits busted
@@AUTOMATON_GRUNT well that DOES defeat the purpose of tf2 customizability, there as to be a way to balance it, not send it off to hell