Very interesting video and analysis. I recently got back into the hobby about a year ago after over a 2 decade hiatus - and I thought prices were bad in the 90s, but it's so much worse now. Such a shame as they're completely pricing much, much younger people out of the hobby.
@@gbjanuary Absolutely. I rarely purchase on eBay or even Hattons pre-owned these days. Can probably still Ok at fairs and locally if you can find what you are looking for.
@@EuviRail Totally...was looking at their site only yesterday and anything half decent is approaching new loco prices. Only thing I found was a nice Heljan Class 16 for £89 which was a fair price
@@paulredding5864Yeah, sad situation. Even Hattons pre-owned can be very pricey now. You can be lucky and find the odd bargain from someone looking for a quick sale alright but can be hard work searching.
I purchased a Bachmann two car 105 DMU from Rails in 2016 for £89.50. The latest two car 108 DMU is a whopping £209.00! In just six years! I know we have to accepting a standard inflation on prices right now but this is ridiculous. This is only going to drive out many in the hobby and newcomers with the cost of living crisis looming. The big players now better watch out for the up and coming companies like Accurascale etc. The quality is superb at a reasonable price.
@@EuviRail great informative video by the way. A credit ( no pun intended ) to you. Mentioned to my model railway friends about your video. Strangely enough we had this conversation recently. Even though some of them can afford this they won’t be buying new through principle but will be sticking to second hand models from now onwards. How many other people will be doing the same? I really would like to see new Blood embracing this great creative hobby and younger people. This is just going to put them off.
I also came back to the hobby after more than 25 years. Yes, prices are expensive, compared to years gone by. Some items are clearly not worth the money. However, the model quality is amazing on the items I bought that I consider expensive (Accurascale and a beautiful class 66). But the biggest thing bumping pricing is DCC, which seems to almost double the pricing. It's basically a hobby within a hobby itself.
Excellent job,I'm convinced the majority of increases are due to greed from the main players.We need newer/smaller manufacturers to put a rocket up them!Unfortunately Hornsby/Bachmann do have a stranglehold on customers and suppliers alike.Ignoring Rails of Sheffield,Hattons etc blackmailing them with certain price structures or else helps no one.If you want a certain model unfortunately you have to pay the manufacturers price,usually highly inflated and often of dubious quality.Great review mate it does give food for thought but depressing if you're on a tight budget and still love modelling.👍
Right now Roco, Mehano and Piko are some of the only companies selling reasonably priced trains, even Bachmann USA has some of their their old school 1980's era Diesel models priced as much as a mid level piko or roco locomotive! Even the rolling stock which is from the 70's has gone up to the point that 2 cars costs as much as a Roco Wagon set, you get an extra 2 or even 4 cars for the same price!
Thank you for this excellent video and the work it must have taken. I restarted my modelling in earnest about five years ago. Makes me wish I had bought some new stock five before that - With a few exceptions (e.g. Hornby RR mk1s @ about £20, Dapol class 22 @ £127) I’m a bargain hunter for good used stuff.
Seeing fewer and fewer bargains these days but they do pop up from time time. This one caught my eye recently www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/72488/K9965A-The-Sapper-Cargowaggon-Pack
I think that nowadays. Model railways being stupidly overpriced is stopping newcomers to the hobby and maybe Hornby if anyone could bring production back to the UK and even Northern Ireland has many unused factory units that could probably have uses for model train production. Many people are being priced out of the hobby and these high prices will only allow those with deep pockets to continue into the hobby. I remember back in 2011 when the British Steel 60033 was about £105 brand new and now the GBRF Class 60 is nearly an eye watering £200 and no major changes to the models. As for the Accurascale/Irish Railway Models. I am thankful that they have their heads screwed on in the right way pricewise as their models are excellent and the prices are within my reach as well. Hornby and Bachmann needs to get a grip and put their prices as reasonable because I am not rich and many people are on a budget as well. I wouldn't mind if our incomes rise to match the inflation rates but they don't and that's why I do other hobbies besides model trains and model buses as other entertainment is cheaper. I am very concerned about the future of model trains and those that want to get into the hobby but cannot afford it.
Many thanks for your commentary and sentiments that I would echo. In a free market, competition is ultimately needed to keep everyone honest so we need to support the Dapols, Accurascales and other new entrants who are attempting to deliver better value. I sincerely hope the current rate of increase is halted before too many people are put off the hobby.
Brilliant video! I was looking through the adverts from hattons and rails in my old railway modeller magazines from 2010/2011 and it’s eye watering seeing the price. Especially hst’s for under £100
I think if the price of every day items had gone up similar to model railway items then a lot of us would find ourselves in the workhouse. A certain level of price increase is expected & accepted but increases like we see in model railway items will do nothing but decrease the interest in the hobby & put manufacturers out of business.
Good video! I've been collecting trains since I was a kid and I've noticed the price hikes over the years. Heck, I could remember when a Class 08 diesel shunter costed no more than £40, since they introduced DCC and sound you can now expect to pay up to £200 for the same locomotive. DCC is now in almost every locomotive and is really just a way of pushing the prices up. Pricing for wagons and coaches are a joke, in the old days £5 for a wagon and £10-£15 a coach was more reasonable and the true cost, but now be expected to pay 3-4 times as much. As for buildings let's not even go there! I've actually found that brand new models aren't worth the money, you're paying more money for the same model using old tooling which in my view is complete bonkers.
Thanks Alex and thanks for sharing. It's the crazy price inflation I was noticing that led me to do the video. This was never a cheap hobby but it's a lot more expensive now unfortunately. I use the "money for old rope" term a lot in relation to Hornby's re-spins. Some of their Lima tooling must have paid for itself multiple times over by now.
Hahah love to see a comparison now in 2023 if it was bad 2 years ago... £20 for a coach is perfect pricing imo. These old prices all seemed quite fair.
2021 was particularly bad as Hornby prices were going through the roof around this time with £100 being added to the price of Class 43s and Class 800s for example. A 2013-2023 comparison won't be too pretty a picture either though. Prices were still reasonable in 2013/2014.
I don't collect 00 gauge - old 0 gauge tinplate. When I look in the cabinet at my local Model shop at the latest 00 gauge models, I see nicely made plastic models that look like they should be a bout £40 each. Anyone not caught up in the whole thing would think that.
Very good analysis, thank you. Ebay isn't much of an alternative anymore, as prices on there can be extortionate for certain items. I've seen hornby mk3's for over a ton.
Superb analysis and food for thought as to whats actually driving the increases which if they continue will get prohibitive an element that the main players are going to shot themselves in the foot. Hopefully new players who are entering the market with excellent products will shake things up but that will take time and will prices continue to rise in the meantime. A real thought provoking video thankyou superb and informative as always. Tim
This massive increase has being going on for years. My favourite example are Hornby's wagon wheels. The very best baseline study. I like to upgrade old stock and eliminate plastic wheels. In 2001 Hatton's sold a pack of ten axles for £3.00, and a 9f loco for £73.00. Today, precisely the same wheels, same original engineering, identical packaging, no "DCC ready" , no enhanced detail, etc £20.00 a pack! That's 566%! Based on this, the super duper forthcoming Hornby 9F should be £486, even before all the engineering and details improvements are priced in. Surely someone can revive UK manufacturing. and break the Chinese stranglehold. Come on Dapol.
Thanks for an excellent video. I think the factor missing from your analysis is "What is the Consumer prepared to pay?". Prices increases don't always follow a logic of increased costs, they are simply that the vendor has realised that increasing the price doesn't caused a drop in demand. In other words charge as much as you can get away with. Richard
Hi Richard, the pandemic has definitely driven up demand for models and more expensive models at that. The pre-order driven world we now live in has also driven up what people pay for their models and prices in general appear to have cascaded from there including the "money for old rope" models I covered in the assessment. The big question going forward will be how much people are willing to pay? I can only speak personally but things are approaching the upper limits of what I am willing to pay right now. Thanks for your commentary. Eugene
@@EuviRail just to add my view that unfortunately the manufacturers are short term planning, based on a generation who have got healthy disposable income from having reaped rewards during boom markets and paid off mortgages early etc. At least this is what I think is driving it, they are likely hoping to make as much money as possible from that segment of consumers as they know the money won't be there too much longer. The sad thing is that by trying to make more they sell themselves short as they make it impossible for newer modellers to get drawn in... Unless they are lucky or really determined to ignore the lure of a playstation.
Excellent video. Thanks for posting that. One thing I would say is that it would be interesting to see if a company could survive producing much cheaper models, even if less detailed, as there seems to be, on paper at least, a market for that. I still find myself buying the Hornby Railroad range just because for some types of loco there is enough detail for me, and I can add to it if I wish to, and the price seems fair. I'm thinking of the Class 20 here. I paid £66 in 2021 for a Hornby Railroad one, as I just couldn't justify spending a three figure number on a loco that was not significantly (to me) that much better. This Railroad one looks great going around my layout. I save spending high just for my absolute favourites.
Thanks for that. I believe your point is a very valid one and worthy of consideration to help affordability. The main issue I have with the Railroad locos is their poor performance and lighting (or lack thereof). If both of these could be upped a notch then even within the current levels of detail I could probably live with it for certain models as you say and save your spending for your favourite locos and go all out on those. Would welcome comments from others on this.
@@EuviRail Yes would be interesting to see if others think there is a big enough market here. Some of the Railroad machines are fine in terms of performance I find. For example the A1 Tornado and the P2 both have the same running gear as the Mainline versions, and they run fine. Maybe it is just certain ones that need changes from what you say?
@@Calvertfilm Yes, in general I find the Railroad steam locos to be pretty good on the performance side. I've a video in the works for a Railroad Crosti 9F and it's a great runner. It's the Railroad diesels that are a let down with their traction tyres and sub standard motors. As per my Duke of Gloucester review I believe there is a place for moderately detailed models that are still good runners that can hit a particular price point.
Really top analysis. From a personal point of view I have given up on Hornby & Bachmann due to their very high prices and refuse to pay their RRP's/discounted RRP's considering the quality issues and the lack of value for money/up to date tooling/electronics compared to the new players such as Accurascale, Revolution (they're actually quite expensive for the most part) & Cavalex with Dapol being thrown in there as well. I've only been into model railways for about 6 years and yes did have Hornby & Bachmann products initially which I shrewdly sold off at profit when I started to see the new players come onboard and saw what they were offering but the advantage I have is that I don't hold any allegiance to Hornby or Bachmann thus I am not swayed to buy their products because of who they are or because of their history so I have no problem giving them the cold shoulder as the new players offer me everything I need at much lower prices for current day modern image. To put it into perspective, I've spent about 5k on Accurascale, Revolution, Cavalex, Hattons (Class 66) and Dapol in the last 2 years and zero of that slush fund has gone to Hornby, Bachmann and Heljan (forgot about them) and it will continue that way for the foreseeable future. Personally I think Hornby are the worst of them, outdated products for Rolls Royce money where at Least Bachmann are making an effort with a couple of recent loco's but still not without issues and again you will pay thru the nose.
Thanks for that. I can see a lot of folks following the same path and going with the new players. I'll be reviewing the IRM (aka Accurascale) Irish A-Class and it's an absolute beauty. With Class 37s, 55s and 92s to come I know where a lot of my new money is going.
There's definitely value to be had in the second hand market if you shop around. I don't shirk going the second hand route when I can find a good quality model at the right price.
Excellent video! I am relatively new to the hobby so I am not as privy to price increases as I might be otherwise. However, I have heard murmors of how bad things have become, and I myself witnessed the summer price increases from Hornby among others. It does seem like a really unfortunate situation.
V good video indeed. I came back into the hobby in 1995 and collected new releases by all the main players from then on until around 5 years ago when prices started to escalate for similar models. I now focus the spend on updating my locos eg fit DCC decoders or sound; the new Bmann V2 is a case in point, I can retrofit 3x Zimo sound decoders for the same price as the new loco. Admittedly the detail isnt as good but it's a good representation for me. Wagons are another issue, I was picking up Hornby/Bmann items at £5-7 and now buy kits eg Parkside esp since Peco now include bearings, metal wheels and transfers. As you say, coming into hobby now, one would have to be v selective. Cheers
Thanks Paul. It sounds like you've lived the experience first hand. One you have locos you like, investing in them makes a lot of sense There's also a greater sense of satisfaction in making a good model even better. Rgds, Eugene
Very interesting survey. I just got involved in modelling 3 years ago so have not experienced the full 10 year span of your study. I have bought quite a number of locos both new and used in both N and OO from Hornby, Bachmann (Farish too), Murphy Models and more recently Irish Railway Modellers. I wonder if some of the price hike recently has been from installing DCC ready circuitry and more latterly supplying with speakers whether you want them or not. With shortage of supply from manufacturing centres overseas and maybe a fall in demand it would be very interesting if you were to do a survey of “used” second hand prices over a few years. I appreciate that some models are affected by low production runs and rarity etc. I noticed this morning, for instance that Murphy’s 201 class River Corrib which I bought new last year for about £140 is on eBay at just short of £300.
Hi John, yes, it's true to say that during this 10 years we went from a lot of "DCC Compatible" to all "DCC Ready" locos today. There is very little to this however for most locos - just a connector socket and a dummy header. Older steam locos may not have had any PCB so a bit more work there. Pre-fitted speakers are still confined to a very small proportion of models and wouldn't have been present in the models I looked at. Now second hand prices are a bit harder to assess in terms of the historical pricing and the dependency on the condition of the model. Historical eBay pricing can be found searching online but will be limited in terms of how far back you can go. I was hoping to do such a video on Irish models in particular given some the crazy second hand prices as you've seen. I'll likely revisit that early in the new year. Now, as newer Irish models appear that are superior to their predecessors you can see huge drops in the price of the older models - the Lima Murphy Models Class 201s for example. More anon on this one. Rgds, Eugene
it's really depressing to see prices going up. I don't live in a country with strong currency, so its becoming increasingly hard to buy british outline models.
It is atrocious the prices that are being asked at the moment for trains made for the UK market at the present time. If the quality was the same as Kato or Atlas then there may be some justification, however that is not the case.
Rails of Sheffield have little hornby models as they have ceased selling hornby due to delivery problems from hornby plus other reasons , they released a letter a year or so back
Hi Nigel, I think the Terrier had a lot to do with it on the Rails side and then of course Hornby wanted to increase margin and drive greater direct sales so I'm sure there were supply and pricing issues. Accurascale, Cavalax etc. aren't complaining of course and Hornby will ultimately lose out here. You need to respect your sales channels. All my Hornby pre-orders with Rails were cancelled of course. It leaves a sour taste unfortunately.
One thing you didn’t touch on, is the resell value of most modern models…. Yes the price has went up substantially, a mix of increased manufacturing costs, the collapse in the pound against the US dollar post GFC (A pound got you 2USD prior to the GFC) and plain old increasing of profit margins.. It is expensive now to acquire models, but if you look after them keep the packaging and then sell them a couple of years later, you actually get nearly all your money back, so the actual cost of ownership is quite low.
Hi Andy, for good quality models you're absolutely correct and some folks are in the black on their modelling as a result. However, with the increasingly inconsistent quality of late you could end up stuck with an item that could be challenging to sell on if you weren't the careful. I can remember seeing a Hattons Class 66 selling on eBay for £350 shortly after they were launched. I couldn't see someone paying anything like that for one now. In general terms though the value of people's existing models has risen for sure so if you can sell out at the right time it can help you ride the upward spiral. For those new to the hobby it's a disaster however. It's becoming a bit like the property market!
Personally, I don't mind paying the higher prices of the models so long as the model feels like it's justified its price, like Accurascales KUA wagons or the Rapido J70/16XX for example. Despite those models high asking prices I was blown away by the quality of the models. Hornby are being let down in this area, as a larger than it should be number of brand new locomotives this year I've gotten have had quality control issues and a couple I have sent back to be replaced. Which is a shame given they have generally the better motor/mechanisms (especially in their steam locomotives) set ups in the models, and that is something that helps justify their prices for me. With Bachmanns current prices I feel the worst offenders are by far their multiple units and coaches, and despite some of the recent offerings being tempting, the prices just put me completely off. The coaches especially, as I honestly can't see how they're worth the 50/60/70 pound price tag. For that I would expect die cast chassis/sprung buffers/lighting. While you look at Accurascales MK2bs being the same as Bachmanns at £60 each and you can see from the EP samples why they are priced at that and that it looks to be a quality model so far. Overall even with what I said in the opening first sentace, I do feel they are getting a bit too pricey for some one like myself who doesn't have a massive amount of disposable income.
Thanks Paul, I'm on the same page as you in terms of getting value for money. I've well pleased with any Accurascale purchase todate due to the added detail and quality they deliver. It's bad enough paying up to 200% more for essentially old rope but when the quality declines as well it's very hard to swallow. Looking forward to the Accurascale MK2bs for sure. Rgds, Eugene
Hi. Completely agree why are we paying so much, it's getting so that it could be cheaper for the models to be made over here but that won't happen with the deals this government has done with china. I have mentioned prices on my channel a couple of times. Look at the price of the DRS coaches from the Bachmann club £95. I now have had to cut down on what I now buy.
Thanks Michael. If China do something silly and we end up in a serious trade war, you could a resurgence in onshore manufacture! Agree, the Bachmann DCC coach prices are in fantasy land now.
We all talk about price increases. But let’s look at the uk min wage from 2012 some 10 years ago for over 22 year old it was only £6.19 per hour. So even back then a model coach at £25.99 would be expensive. We seen to forget that everything goes up in price. It’s not them making profits but it’s how much it cost to employ people along with the cost of raw materials. The main problem I feel is that some people that complain are trying to buy everything they see. Schoolboy error. Pick a era and a location you wanna model and you’ll find it a lot cheaper.
I've a few Hornby stock but I've switched to N Scale. The prices for N scale are just as high, albeit similar price for an N scale loco and a HO one. But for the price, I feel N scale has better detail and quality from Minitrix, Fleischmann etc rather than the same loco at a similar price from Hornby that lacks detail, sound etc.
Another great video. I would not be so angry if it wasn’t for the number of poorly assembled HORNBY models. Class 50 in GBRF. My hopes were that the innovation from Hattons e.g. Class 66 and new entrants would at least bring competition and affordable quality. There’s lots of bargains to be had looking around, i think if there is any profiteering its in the manufacturers and Brands and not the retailers.
Thanks Stephen. I think Hornby and Bachmann will come to regret alienating some of the their largest retail partners as new entrants step in to take their place. The Class 50 GBRF was a disappointment for sure.
Chinese inflation was 5.6% in 2010 and since then averaged 2%. You also need to look at the Sterling/Dollar/Yuan exchange rate. The £ bought 10.2Y a decade ago now 8.7Y. None of this though fully accounts for a doubling in prices. Marklin-Trix manufacture in Germany and Hungary and Roco's design office is in Austria with the main plant in Arad Romania with a smaller facility in Vietnam. Piko and Brawa are mostly made in China although Piko seems to be able to control things better owning a large factory in China. All have had hefty price increases.
Thanks for sharing. Good to get some context on the European manufacturers. Still waiting for a justification for the 100%+ increases apart from profit taking.
Thank you for the honest video on the ridiculous prices of the loco's from Hornby and Bachmann. Going through some old magazines reminded me of the prices I paid for my EMU's DMU's from both Hornby and Bachmann some years ago. They are basically 4 to 5 times the price now. It would be great to see these slightly older models up against the new 5 times more expensive models to see what the difference is. Maybe more attention to the unbelievable prices and how they are deterring new and younger modellers away from the hobby might see some change. We are being priced out.
Thanks Ben. Hornby and Bachmann are losing a lot of customers with their pricing actions and we're seeing crazy prices in the 2nd hand market for certain models now as well. I think we're all hoping the new players will fill the value gap.
This is why I gave up model railways… never worth the money. Totally ridiculous prices for plastic. Need your head read to part with the kinda cash this hobby demands now 🥴
Hornby were going bankrupt and likely price rises are what they should have been charging , recent coaches from Hattons have come down to more sensible levels , accusale expensive but high end . Would like to see in the few model shops in Ireland
Absolutely Nigel and there's probably enough material for a whole TV series to go through Hornby's challenges over the last 10-15 years. I don't envy the job Simon has had to do. I think pricing is one aspect for sure but there are a myriad of others. From a channel perspective I look at the value more than the price and Hornby have fallen below the bar on some offerings this year - the MK3 DVT and Avanti Pendolino for example. Hattons recent MK3 discounting it to be welcomed for sure. I would definitely love to see some models shops spring up around the country. Mail order is great but there is nothing like the experience of visiting a real model shop and the personal attention. Post Brexit I have to believe there is more opportunity for local model shops now as buying UK models on eBay is all but a non runner now and the level of retail discounting isn't what it once was.
@@Whizzy-jx3qe Thanks, Yeah, one of the channel members dug into the latest container costs and came up with an estimated £1 shipping cost per loco. My own guestimate was £1-£2. Even with a 100% increase that puts you in the £2-£4 range. With a 200% markup that would still only be a net increase of £3 - £6. Apart from fuel costs I don't know of any other consumer item that has increased as much as Hornby's models in the last year. Will they decrease the prices when the container costs go down again? Accurascale have been getting recent shipments from China and I don't see their prices going up. They had discounted the Class 92 for a while (to drive pre-orders) and it's just gone back to the standard price now. Their 37s and 55s are all at the same price as 2 years ago. I'm not buying it Hornby.
Analysing things you cannot change and are unlikely to change by grumbling from some not all of the hobby doesn't increase your happiness. And thats what its about ain't it? Happiness. 🙂 we want to be happy. If this is now to expensive, or making you anxious about how expensive it is maybe, and I say this not to be rude but to be realistic, time to look at another paradigm of engagement in this hobby? A loco kit, some wagon kits? Basically anything that switches up that cycle of spend and play and takes it to spend, put in effort and skill, then get that immeasurably larger buzz from looking at your work bearing fruit and improving. Can have things no one else has, locos no one else you know has, wagons that make your layout way more varied, coaches you've dreamed of. All by your own hand... could even have more irish steam to play with given kits are available! What a world eh. All for about the same money or less in many cases, a little of your time, and a lot of skills learned, friendships made consulting on how to do things and a grearer sense of reward. Doesn't make you a rivet counter, or a prototypical modelling nerd... just makes you someone who's not a slave to these companies for their kicks.
The main purpose of the video was to outline how model railway prices had diverged so drastically relative to everything else. There has been a trend to the ultra detailed models which I would have concerns with if that was contributing to this. However, the items I looked at in the video were relatively unchanged in 10 years (i.e. money for old rope)! The point you're making regarding the costs of today taking the fun out of the hobby is a very valid one and I would agree there is a need to find a way to change this. I wouldn't disagree with the concept of kits suitable for the non-scratch builders. In another video I called out having interchangeable loco bodies so that lovers of a particular loco can have a range of their preferred liveries without shelling out for multiple locos. The current paradigm is only killing the hobby for many people.
@@EuviRail the kits are really a far cry from the skills needed to scratch build. Even an etched loco kit is very different to a scratch built brass loco and the skill set needed is waaaay less broad to achieve a very good result. Basically if you can solder two bits of brass together you'll muddle through it, especially with the aide of inexpensive folding tools and so many more easily available tools on the market that now make it childs play... but people just don't seem interested in trying for some reason. Its kinda like the chance to break out the RTR trap is there but people don't take it often which is a shame. Put it this way, be happy, help out some small businesses, gain some skills for life, some more perseverance, and best of all something you can look at and be truly proud to own. Or buy things. When its put like this it really seems like a no brainer but people just don't look at it that way for some reason. The money for old rope thing is yeah sorta but nah it depends, I hear many say "but its the same tooling hornby used 10 years ago?" Etc. But so what? Is the company in the same hands? Nope. Does anyone really know if that is the same mold tool or just the same design of mold tool that has been reproduced? To replace a life expired one from the previous owner/management of hornby cutting costs on upkeep to keep prices low... it's a very complex issue which we really only see the surface of in most cases when we see a price. Sucks but every explination we come up with is mere speculation. The interchangeable bodies thing is something very worth them doing. But there would have to be a quid in it for them somehow... never know though
great vid i've stopped buying new locos from hornby etc.as they are now way over priced .these companies are pricing the modeller out the market.and without us.they will cease to operate.these price increases is just greed.they blame it on covid. etc sorry not buying it.
Hi John, 100% agree and it's people like yourself I had in mind when doing the video. Having coming back to the hobby myself in 2014 my experience since has been that quality is the best thing to invest in, particularly for your locomotives. The Railroad steam locos are fine but not the Railroad diesels which I'd avoid. Good quality models can always be sold on, very often at a profit if you look after them and keep the boxes but low grade models are very hard to sell on and lose a large portion of what value they had. And there's the frustration of poorly running models. Fewer but better models would be my advice. You'll really enjoy running them. Good quality pre-owned models are well worth considering be it through auctions houses or 2nd hand websites. Some of my favourite models came through this route and you can typically save 25-30% versus the new price though not necessarily on sites like eBay these days.
@@EuviRail Thanks for your reply,& advice,! , I hadn't considered steam loco's as I'm more of a diesel loco, guy, which Manufacturer's Make Reliable,diesel Models?
@@johnmichaeldorienjohn467 Hi John, the more serious diesel models are shared around the different manufacturers, Dapol for a good Class 52 or Class 68 for example, Hornby for a Class 43, 56, 60 or 67 and Bachmann for a range of diesels such as the 20, 24, 37, 47, 55, 57, 66 etc. Then there are new players such as Cavalax (Class 56) or Accurascale (Class 37 and 55). There isn't a one stop shop across all Classes so it will come down to the era / region you are modelling and your locos of interest that align with that.
@@EuviRail I'm going to be very flexible, with the Era I'm going to model, so likely I'll look at the second hand market & treat myself to 2 detailed model, when my funds allows!& thank you for your reply & advice! Stay Safe
@@Ste1952 Well, Roco and Marklin-Trix invested in new factories in Eastern Europe to make their premium ranges. A new DDC HO sound loco from Roco is around 300 to 500 euros in Germany. Roco-Fleischmann make most things in-house including motors. They still have spares available to order online for my Fleischmann DB103 loco made in the 1970s!
The availability of spares from all major suppliers is another issue that everyone is worried about, this is major companies behaving like car producers no spares after a certain date i my opinion its a poor and shoddy way to behave Sorry to rant but if you can;t get spares for recent models what chance have we of getting new starters in the hobby i despair at times Regards Alan
Hi Alan, thanks for flagging that. My other beef is the lack of more detailed information on models which I want to cover in another. Manufacturers appear be just throwing models over the well to us with none of the supports you would expect when you pay £150+ for something.
Hi EuviRail, A shocking reality that's in no way justified ! One needs to add: higher prices but more Quality Control problems with Chinese Made. RTR now stands for Ready To Repair. Faulty wired decoder sockets, bad motors - most of the time underpowered, mechanical problems due to bad design engineering and the list goes on. The new yuppies investing for a return of + 10%, bookkeepers and lawyer running businesses only 'fast profit based'. The client is 'a wallet we take from' not a person who wants to enjoy what he is buying. So it's a 'morality & ethic' problem in the first place. The 'produce cheap' (junk) and 'throw away general mentality' - 'the' reason we have things made in China. It only takes a look in the trash bin to see how we produce waste - not to mention the carbon impact of 'global' transport and the rate of out of hand pollution... But then: people don't seem to care. A crap expensive 'exclusive' model sells out in no time ! Some are 'aware' and don't play the game... but becoming a rare breed. These are the times of fast food but slow digestion. Big man but short character. Steep profits but shallow relationships. A time of a lots in the window but nothing in the room. More degrees but less sense. More knowledge (??) but less judgement, not to mention 'wisdom'. More experts but more problems. We have become long on quantity but short on quality....A paradox but reality. I'm 'content' with the loco- and rolling roster on my model railway and very careful with what ' I don't need' to enjoy model railroading. I'm not paying these 'new' mafia prices!! Thanks for sharing. Cheers, Filip
Thanks Filip. I thinks it fair to say that the prices on some models are reaching an upper limit point for a lot of folks (including myself) that we aren't willing to go beyond in order to achieve something newly tooled with the Nth level of detail that you need your glasses to see. People will soon be afraid to run their locos because they cost so much!
It says it's now not a kids hobby anymore is now it's now a pensioner hobby got more money and you taking a new Hobby people would like taking the model is out so
Yep, with Hornby's HST new web price of £362.99, it now assumes top spot on the list for the largest increase at 218%. Well done Hornby, you've taken over the top spot from Bachmann!
China is a pain especially if we go to war??? Model prices are expensive I do not think they have to be as high as you've discussed sure adjust for inflation but cheap China isn't so cheap. Those companies may as well make the models in Europe. Or are they just being greedy.....🤔?
Hi Guy, the latter I'm afraid. They can get a much greater margin with producing in China, though the costs have gone up there, as have the transport costs so it's not as compelling as it once was. The other issue now is the loss of skills, competency and infrastructure to build highly detailed models in the UK or Europe which means there is a barrier to entry now that is hard to overcome. And this applies to a lot of items, not just railway models! If the worst came to the worst, there would be a massive gap in the availability of most electronic consumer goods, toys etc. with a large lag before any alternative manufacturing came onboard. Too many eggs in the one basket if you ask me.
hi , it would help if hornby still made locos etc in england. soon this game will be for the rich only, no wonder children today dont want to know,even the hornby railroad r 3086 flying scotsman is over 100 pounds,and Hattons are not cheap anymore.soon its all going to do a Titanic,
Thanks Peter. I can remember the original premise behind the Hornby Railroad range was that these were the simpler lower cost models made in China. Now everything is made there! Comment on Hattons is correct. Also the price on pre-owned items appears to have gone through the roof as well.
@@EuviRail agreed. i recently offered hattons a mint hornby Brighton Belle,and they only offered me sixty pounds ! but are selling for 170 pounds, i am now keeping the belle.
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Very interesting video and analysis. I recently got back into the hobby about a year ago after over a 2 decade hiatus - and I thought prices were bad in the 90s, but it's so much worse now. Such a shame as they're completely pricing much, much younger people out of the hobby.
My thoughts exactly David. Becoming very difficult for younger people to get into the hobby as even second hand prices have gone crazy.
@@EuviRail second hand price market is pricing new people out the hobby also. Seen some silly prices on eBay.
@@gbjanuary Absolutely. I rarely purchase on eBay or even Hattons pre-owned these days. Can probably still Ok at fairs and locally if you can find what you are looking for.
There has also been a cascading effect of this on the second hand market - almost no bargains on ebay now.
Absolutely. Even Hattons pre-owned models have elevated in price to keep in step.
@@EuviRail Totally...was looking at their site only yesterday and anything half decent is approaching new loco prices. Only thing I found was a nice Heljan Class 16 for £89 which was a fair price
@@paulredding5864Yeah, sad situation. Even Hattons pre-owned can be very pricey now. You can be lucky and find the odd bargain from someone looking for a quick sale alright but can be hard work searching.
I agree eBay prices are like what can get new.
I purchased a Bachmann two car 105 DMU from Rails in 2016 for £89.50. The latest two car 108 DMU is a whopping £209.00! In just six years! I know we have to accepting a standard inflation on prices right now but this is ridiculous. This is only going to drive out many in the hobby and newcomers with the cost of living crisis looming. The big players now better watch out for the up and coming companies like Accurascale etc. The quality is superb at a reasonable price.
Yeah, I think we can all accept increases in line with inflation but not X3 to X4 times inflation.
@@EuviRail great informative video by the way. A credit ( no pun intended ) to you. Mentioned to my model railway friends about your video. Strangely enough we had this conversation recently. Even though some of them can afford this they won’t be buying new through principle but will be sticking to second hand models from now onwards. How many other people will be doing the same? I really would like to see new Blood embracing this great creative hobby and younger people. This is just going to put them off.
I also came back to the hobby after more than 25 years. Yes, prices are expensive, compared to years gone by. Some items are clearly not worth the money. However, the model quality is amazing on the items I bought that I consider expensive (Accurascale and a beautiful class 66). But the biggest thing bumping pricing is DCC, which seems to almost double the pricing. It's basically a hobby within a hobby itself.
Hi Jonathan, don't get me started on the price of DCC Sound Decoders. The manufactured cost is probably less than $10, typical retail price is £120.
Excellent job,I'm convinced the majority of increases are due to greed from the main players.We need newer/smaller manufacturers to put a rocket up them!Unfortunately Hornsby/Bachmann do have a stranglehold on customers and suppliers alike.Ignoring Rails of Sheffield,Hattons etc blackmailing them with certain price structures or else helps no one.If you want a certain model unfortunately you have to pay the manufacturers price,usually highly inflated and often of dubious quality.Great review mate it does give food for thought but depressing if you're on a tight budget and still love modelling.👍
Thanks Peter. Yeah, it's not good right now. We definitely need the new players to keep big two honest.
Right now Roco, Mehano and Piko are some of the only companies selling reasonably priced trains, even Bachmann USA has some of their their old school 1980's era Diesel models priced as much as a mid level piko or roco locomotive! Even the rolling stock which is from the 70's has gone up to the point that 2 cars costs as much as a Roco Wagon set, you get an extra 2 or even 4 cars for the same price!
Thank you for this excellent video and the work it must have taken. I restarted my modelling in earnest about five years ago. Makes me wish I had bought some new stock five before that - With a few exceptions (e.g. Hornby RR mk1s @ about £20, Dapol class 22 @ £127) I’m a bargain hunter for good used stuff.
Seeing fewer and fewer bargains these days but they do pop up from time time. This one caught my eye recently www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/72488/K9965A-The-Sapper-Cargowaggon-Pack
I think that nowadays. Model railways being stupidly overpriced is stopping newcomers to the hobby and maybe Hornby if anyone could bring production back to the UK and even Northern Ireland has many unused factory units that could probably have uses for model train production. Many people are being priced out of the hobby and these high prices will only allow those with deep pockets to continue into the hobby. I remember back in 2011 when the British Steel 60033 was about £105 brand new and now the GBRF Class 60 is nearly an eye watering £200 and no major changes to the models. As for the Accurascale/Irish Railway Models. I am thankful that they have their heads screwed on in the right way pricewise as their models are excellent and the prices are within my reach as well. Hornby and Bachmann needs to get a grip and put their prices as reasonable because I am not rich and many people are on a budget as well. I wouldn't mind if our incomes rise to match the inflation rates but they don't and that's why I do other hobbies besides model trains and model buses as other entertainment is cheaper. I am very concerned about the future of model trains and those that want to get into the hobby but cannot afford it.
Many thanks for your commentary and sentiments that I would echo. In a free market, competition is ultimately needed to keep everyone honest so we need to support the Dapols, Accurascales and other new entrants who are attempting to deliver better value. I sincerely hope the current rate of increase is halted before too many people are put off the hobby.
Brilliant video! I was looking through the adverts from hattons and rails in my old railway modeller magazines from 2010/2011 and it’s eye watering seeing the price. Especially hst’s for under £100
Thanks Dennis. Yeah, it's eye opening to go through those old adds!
I got into model railways nearly 2 years ago so you can imagine my surprise when I saw the 2011 prices!
Absolutely Ben. How we'd love to be able to purchase at those prices now!
@@EuviRail I just hope this isn’t a continual trend, it’s getting to the point where I can’t justify the prices anymore.
I think if the price of every day items had gone up similar to model railway items then a lot of us would find ourselves in the workhouse. A certain level of price increase is expected & accepted but increases like we see in model railway items will do nothing but decrease the interest in the hobby & put manufacturers out of business.
I can't think of anything else that has increased as much in the last 10 years.
Good video! I've been collecting trains since I was a kid and I've noticed the price hikes over the years. Heck, I could remember when a Class 08 diesel shunter costed no more than £40, since they introduced DCC and sound you can now expect to pay up to £200 for the same locomotive. DCC is now in almost every locomotive and is really just a way of pushing the prices up.
Pricing for wagons and coaches are a joke, in the old days £5 for a wagon and £10-£15 a coach was more reasonable and the true cost, but now be expected to pay 3-4 times as much. As for buildings let's not even go there! I've actually found that brand new models aren't worth the money, you're paying more money for the same model using old tooling which in my view is complete bonkers.
Thanks Alex and thanks for sharing. It's the crazy price inflation I was noticing that led me to do the video. This was never a cheap hobby but it's a lot more expensive now unfortunately. I use the "money for old rope" term a lot in relation to Hornby's re-spins. Some of their Lima tooling must have paid for itself multiple times over by now.
Hahah love to see a comparison now in 2023 if it was bad 2 years ago... £20 for a coach is perfect pricing imo. These old prices all seemed quite fair.
2021 was particularly bad as Hornby prices were going through the roof around this time with £100 being added to the price of Class 43s and Class 800s for example. A 2013-2023 comparison won't be too pretty a picture either though. Prices were still reasonable in 2013/2014.
@@EuviRail great video though, thanks for the reply to
I don't collect 00 gauge - old 0 gauge tinplate. When I look in the cabinet at my local Model shop at the latest 00 gauge models, I see nicely made plastic models that look like they should be a bout £40 each. Anyone not caught up in the whole thing would think that.
Excellent. Thanks for that.
Very good analysis, thank you. Ebay isn't much of an alternative anymore, as prices on there can be extortionate for certain items. I've seen hornby mk3's for over a ton.
Thanks Robert. Agree on eBay. Even Hattons pre-owned has become very pricey.
@@EuviRail At times they can be worse than ebay. Wiith added obsession about boxes!
Superb analysis and food for thought as to whats actually driving the increases which if they continue will get prohibitive an element that the main players are going to shot themselves in the foot. Hopefully new players who are entering the market with excellent products will shake things up but that will take time and will prices continue to rise in the meantime. A real thought provoking video thankyou superb and informative as always. Tim
Thanks Tim. I meant to get this out sooner as the increases have been bothering me for some time but I could never put a measure on it.
This massive increase has being going on for years. My favourite example are Hornby's wagon wheels. The very best baseline study. I like to upgrade old stock and eliminate plastic wheels. In 2001 Hatton's sold a pack of ten axles for £3.00, and a 9f loco for £73.00. Today, precisely the same wheels, same original engineering, identical packaging, no "DCC ready" , no enhanced detail, etc £20.00 a pack! That's 566%! Based on this, the super duper forthcoming Hornby 9F should be £486, even before all the engineering and details improvements are priced in. Surely someone can revive UK manufacturing. and break the Chinese stranglehold. Come on Dapol.
Thanks Sean. I have noticed the price of these increase significantly but I never realised it was as bad as this. £20 now - good grief!
The Hornby website price is £21.75 for 10 axles.
@@seanwaddingham6985 Ouch!
Thanks for an excellent video. I think the factor missing from your analysis is "What is the Consumer prepared to pay?". Prices increases don't always follow a logic of increased costs, they are simply that the vendor has realised that increasing the price doesn't caused a drop in demand. In other words charge as much as you can get away with.
Richard
Hi Richard, the pandemic has definitely driven up demand for models and more expensive models at that. The pre-order driven world we now live in has also driven up what people pay for their models and prices in general appear to have cascaded from there including the "money for old rope" models I covered in the assessment. The big question going forward will be how much people are willing to pay? I can only speak personally but things are approaching the upper limits of what I am willing to pay right now. Thanks for your commentary. Eugene
@@EuviRail just to add my view that unfortunately the manufacturers are short term planning, based on a generation who have got healthy disposable income from having reaped rewards during boom markets and paid off mortgages early etc. At least this is what I think is driving it, they are likely hoping to make as much money as possible from that segment of consumers as they know the money won't be there too much longer. The sad thing is that by trying to make more they sell themselves short as they make it impossible for newer modellers to get drawn in... Unless they are lucky or really determined to ignore the lure of a playstation.
@@_RandomPea I'm with you. Even pre-owned prices have inflated hugely so it's tough for new people to enter the hobby which isn't good.
Intercity82 will be quids in if he sells all the locos he was reviewing 10 years ago.
Excellent video. Thanks for posting that. One thing I would say is that it would be interesting to see if a company could survive producing much cheaper models, even if less detailed, as there seems to be, on paper at least, a market for that. I still find myself buying the Hornby Railroad range just because for some types of loco there is enough detail for me, and I can add to it if I wish to, and the price seems fair. I'm thinking of the Class 20 here. I paid £66 in 2021 for a Hornby Railroad one, as I just couldn't justify spending a three figure number on a loco that was not significantly (to me) that much better. This Railroad one looks great going around my layout. I save spending high just for my absolute favourites.
Thanks for that. I believe your point is a very valid one and worthy of consideration to help affordability. The main issue I have with the Railroad locos is their poor performance and lighting (or lack thereof). If both of these could be upped a notch then even within the current levels of detail I could probably live with it for certain models as you say and save your spending for your favourite locos and go all out on those. Would welcome comments from others on this.
@@EuviRail Yes would be interesting to see if others think there is a big enough market here. Some of the Railroad machines are fine in terms of performance I find. For example the A1 Tornado and the P2 both have the same running gear as the Mainline versions, and they run fine. Maybe it is just certain ones that need changes from what you say?
@@Calvertfilm Yes, in general I find the Railroad steam locos to be pretty good on the performance side. I've a video in the works for a Railroad Crosti 9F and it's a great runner. It's the Railroad diesels that are a let down with their traction tyres and sub standard motors. As per my Duke of Gloucester review I believe there is a place for moderately detailed models that are still good runners that can hit a particular price point.
Really top analysis.
From a personal point of view I have given up on Hornby & Bachmann due to their very high prices and refuse to pay their RRP's/discounted RRP's considering the quality issues and the lack of value for money/up to date tooling/electronics compared to the new players such as Accurascale, Revolution (they're actually quite expensive for the most part) & Cavalex with Dapol being thrown in there as well.
I've only been into model railways for about 6 years and yes did have Hornby & Bachmann products initially which I shrewdly sold off at profit when I started to see the new players come onboard and saw what they were offering but the advantage I have is that I don't hold any allegiance to Hornby or Bachmann thus I am not swayed to buy their products because of who they are or because of their history so I have no problem giving them the cold shoulder as the new players offer me everything I need at much lower prices for current day modern image.
To put it into perspective, I've spent about 5k on Accurascale, Revolution, Cavalex, Hattons (Class 66) and Dapol in the last 2 years and zero of that slush fund has gone to Hornby, Bachmann and Heljan (forgot about them) and it will continue that way for the foreseeable future.
Personally I think Hornby are the worst of them, outdated products for Rolls Royce money where at Least Bachmann are making an effort with a couple of recent loco's but still not without issues and again you will pay thru the nose.
Thanks for that. I can see a lot of folks following the same path and going with the new players. I'll be reviewing the IRM (aka Accurascale) Irish A-Class and it's an absolute beauty. With Class 37s, 55s and 92s to come I know where a lot of my new money is going.
Unfortunately the theme for modelers is now to buy the loco, coach, wagon etc, secondhand!!!
Regards
Nigel
There's definitely value to be had in the second hand market if you shop around. I don't shirk going the second hand route when I can find a good quality model at the right price.
Excellent video! I am relatively new to the hobby so I am not as privy to price increases as I might be otherwise. However, I have heard murmors of how bad things have become, and I myself witnessed the summer price increases from Hornby among others. It does seem like a really unfortunate situation.
Thanks for that.
V good video indeed. I came back into the hobby in 1995 and collected new releases by all the main players from then on until around 5 years ago when prices started to escalate for similar models. I now focus the spend on updating my locos eg fit DCC decoders or sound; the new Bmann V2 is a case in point, I can retrofit 3x Zimo sound decoders for the same price as the new loco. Admittedly the detail isnt as good but it's a good representation for me. Wagons are another issue, I was picking up Hornby/Bmann items at £5-7 and now buy kits eg Parkside esp since Peco now include bearings, metal wheels and transfers. As you say, coming into hobby now, one would have to be v selective. Cheers
Thanks Paul. It sounds like you've lived the experience first hand. One you have locos you like, investing in them makes a lot of sense There's also a greater sense of satisfaction in making a good model even better. Rgds, Eugene
Very interesting survey. I just got involved in modelling 3 years ago so have not experienced the full 10 year span of your study. I have bought quite a number of locos both new and used in both N and OO from Hornby, Bachmann (Farish too), Murphy Models and more recently Irish Railway Modellers. I wonder if some of the price hike recently has been from installing DCC ready circuitry and more latterly supplying with speakers whether you want them or not.
With shortage of supply from manufacturing centres overseas and maybe a fall in demand it would be very interesting if you were to do a survey of “used” second hand prices over a few years. I appreciate that some models are affected by low production runs and rarity etc. I noticed this morning, for instance that Murphy’s 201 class River Corrib which I bought new last year for about £140 is on eBay at just short of £300.
Hi John, yes, it's true to say that during this 10 years we went from a lot of "DCC Compatible" to all "DCC Ready" locos today. There is very little to this however for most locos - just a connector socket and a dummy header. Older steam locos may not have had any PCB so a bit more work there. Pre-fitted speakers are still confined to a very small proportion of models and wouldn't have been present in the models I looked at.
Now second hand prices are a bit harder to assess in terms of the historical pricing and the dependency on the condition of the model. Historical eBay pricing can be found searching online but will be limited in terms of how far back you can go. I was hoping to do such a video on Irish models in particular given some the crazy second hand prices as you've seen. I'll likely revisit that early in the new year. Now, as newer Irish models appear that are superior to their predecessors you can see huge drops in the price of the older models - the Lima Murphy Models Class 201s for example. More anon on this one. Rgds, Eugene
it's really depressing to see prices going up.
I don't live in a country with strong currency, so its becoming increasingly hard to buy british outline models.
It is atrocious the prices that are being asked at the moment for trains made for the UK market at the present time. If the quality was the same as Kato or Atlas then there may be some justification, however that is not the case.
100%. Thanks Anthony.
Rails of Sheffield have little hornby models as they have ceased selling hornby due to delivery problems from hornby plus other reasons , they released a letter a year or so back
Hi Nigel, I think the Terrier had a lot to do with it on the Rails side and then of course Hornby wanted to increase margin and drive greater direct sales so I'm sure there were supply and pricing issues. Accurascale, Cavalax etc. aren't complaining of course and Hornby will ultimately lose out here. You need to respect your sales channels. All my Hornby pre-orders with Rails were cancelled of course. It leaves a sour taste unfortunately.
Thank god for retailers. I got a dapol 52 with sound for £180 from a model shop- while an analogue Hornby class 56 brand new is £16.99 more
100%. £180 for a nice model at a very nice price. Can't ask for more.
Another huge hornby pricc hike to start the year makes this a very concerning issue
100%. I couldn't believe it when I saw the new prices.
One thing you didn’t touch on, is the resell value of most modern models…. Yes the price has went up substantially, a mix of increased manufacturing costs, the collapse in the pound against the US dollar post GFC (A pound got you 2USD prior to the GFC) and plain old increasing of profit margins..
It is expensive now to acquire models, but if you look after them keep the packaging and then sell them a couple of years later, you actually get nearly all your money back, so the actual cost of ownership is quite low.
Hi Andy, for good quality models you're absolutely correct and some folks are in the black on their modelling as a result. However, with the increasingly inconsistent quality of late you could end up stuck with an item that could be challenging to sell on if you weren't the careful. I can remember seeing a Hattons Class 66 selling on eBay for £350 shortly after they were launched. I couldn't see someone paying anything like that for one now. In general terms though the value of people's existing models has risen for sure so if you can sell out at the right time it can help you ride the upward spiral. For those new to the hobby it's a disaster however. It's becoming a bit like the property market!
Personally, I don't mind paying the higher prices of the models so long as the model feels like it's justified its price, like Accurascales KUA wagons or the Rapido J70/16XX for example. Despite those models high asking prices I was blown away by the quality of the models. Hornby are being let down in this area, as a larger than it should be number of brand new locomotives this year I've gotten have had quality control issues and a couple I have sent back to be replaced. Which is a shame given they have generally the better motor/mechanisms (especially in their steam locomotives) set ups in the models, and that is something that helps justify their prices for me.
With Bachmanns current prices I feel the worst offenders are by far their multiple units and coaches, and despite some of the recent offerings being tempting, the prices just put me completely off. The coaches especially, as I honestly can't see how they're worth the 50/60/70 pound price tag. For that I would expect die cast chassis/sprung buffers/lighting. While you look at Accurascales MK2bs being the same as Bachmanns at £60 each and you can see from the EP samples why they are priced at that and that it looks to be a quality model so far.
Overall even with what I said in the opening first sentace, I do feel they are getting a bit too pricey for some one like myself who doesn't have a massive amount of disposable income.
Thanks Paul, I'm on the same page as you in terms of getting value for money. I've well pleased with any Accurascale purchase todate due to the added detail and quality they deliver. It's bad enough paying up to 200% more for essentially old rope but when the quality declines as well it's very hard to swallow. Looking forward to the Accurascale MK2bs for sure. Rgds, Eugene
Hi. Completely agree why are we paying so much, it's getting so that it could be cheaper for the models to be made over here but that won't happen with the deals this government has done with china. I have mentioned prices on my channel a couple of times. Look at the price of the DRS coaches from the Bachmann club £95. I now have had to cut down on what I now buy.
Thanks Michael. If China do something silly and we end up in a serious trade war, you could a resurgence in onshore manufacture! Agree, the Bachmann DCC coach prices are in fantasy land now.
We all talk about price increases. But let’s look at the uk min wage from 2012 some 10 years ago for over 22 year old it was only £6.19 per hour. So even back then a model coach at £25.99 would be expensive. We seen to forget that everything goes up in price. It’s not them making profits but it’s how much it cost to employ people along with the cost of raw materials. The main problem I feel is that some people that complain are trying to buy everything they see. Schoolboy error. Pick a era and a location you wanna model and you’ll find it a lot cheaper.
I've a few Hornby stock but I've switched to N Scale. The prices for N scale are just as high, albeit similar price for an N scale loco and a HO one. But for the price, I feel N scale has better detail and quality from Minitrix, Fleischmann etc rather than the same loco at a similar price from Hornby that lacks detail, sound etc.
Thanks Fergus. EMU/DMU prices for N scale do seem to be a lot better than for 00 though for other items it looks to be a wash as you say.
Another great video. I would not be so angry if it wasn’t for the number of poorly assembled HORNBY models. Class 50 in GBRF. My hopes were that the innovation from Hattons e.g. Class 66 and new entrants would at least bring competition and affordable quality. There’s lots of bargains to be had looking around, i think if there is any profiteering its in the manufacturers and Brands and not the retailers.
Thanks Stephen. I think Hornby and Bachmann will come to regret alienating some of the their largest retail partners as new entrants step in to take their place. The Class 50 GBRF was a disappointment for sure.
Chinese inflation was 5.6% in 2010 and since then averaged 2%. You also need to look at the Sterling/Dollar/Yuan exchange rate. The £ bought 10.2Y a decade ago now 8.7Y. None of this though fully accounts for a doubling in prices.
Marklin-Trix manufacture in Germany and Hungary and Roco's design office is in Austria with the main plant in Arad Romania with a smaller facility in Vietnam. Piko and Brawa are mostly made in China although Piko seems to be able to control things better owning a large factory in China. All have had hefty price increases.
Thanks for sharing. Good to get some context on the European manufacturers. Still waiting for a justification for the 100%+ increases apart from profit taking.
Thank you for the honest video on the ridiculous prices of the loco's from Hornby and Bachmann. Going through some old magazines reminded me of the prices I paid for my EMU's DMU's from both Hornby and Bachmann some years ago. They are basically 4 to 5 times the price now. It would be great to see these slightly older models up against the new 5 times more expensive models to see what the difference is. Maybe more attention to the unbelievable prices and how they are deterring new and younger modellers away from the hobby might see some change. We are being priced out.
Thanks Ben. Hornby and Bachmann are losing a lot of customers with their pricing actions and we're seeing crazy prices in the 2nd hand market for certain models now as well. I think we're all hoping the new players will fill the value gap.
@@EuviRail Fingers crossed as I for one cannot afford to buy any new Hornby or Bachmann loco's.
This is why I gave up model railways… never worth the money. Totally ridiculous prices for plastic. Need your head read to part with the kinda cash this hobby demands now 🥴
Hornby were going bankrupt and likely price rises are what they should have been charging , recent coaches from Hattons have come down to more sensible levels , accusale expensive but high end . Would like to see in the few model shops in Ireland
Absolutely Nigel and there's probably enough material for a whole TV series to go through Hornby's challenges over the last 10-15 years. I don't envy the job Simon has had to do. I think pricing is one aspect for sure but there are a myriad of others. From a channel perspective I look at the value more than the price and Hornby have fallen below the bar on some offerings this year - the MK3 DVT and Avanti Pendolino for example. Hattons recent MK3 discounting it to be welcomed for sure. I would definitely love to see some models shops spring up around the country. Mail order is great but there is nothing like the experience of visiting a real model shop and the personal attention. Post Brexit I have to believe there is more opportunity for local model shops now as buying UK models on eBay is all but a non runner now and the level of retail discounting isn't what it once was.
Hornby are blaming the high cost of shipping and the cost of containers,container prices have gone up substantially.
@@Whizzy-jx3qe Thanks, Yeah, one of the channel members dug into the latest container costs and came up with an estimated £1 shipping cost per loco. My own guestimate was £1-£2. Even with a 100% increase that puts you in the £2-£4 range. With a 200% markup that would still only be a net increase of £3 - £6. Apart from fuel costs I don't know of any other consumer item that has increased as much as Hornby's models in the last year. Will they decrease the prices when the container costs go down again? Accurascale have been getting recent shipments from China and I don't see their prices going up. They had discounted the Class 92 for a while (to drive pre-orders) and it's just gone back to the standard price now. Their 37s and 55s are all at the same price as 2 years ago. I'm not buying it Hornby.
Analysing things you cannot change and are unlikely to change by grumbling from some not all of the hobby doesn't increase your happiness. And thats what its about ain't it? Happiness. 🙂 we want to be happy.
If this is now to expensive, or making you anxious about how expensive it is maybe, and I say this not to be rude but to be realistic, time to look at another paradigm of engagement in this hobby? A loco kit, some wagon kits? Basically anything that switches up that cycle of spend and play and takes it to spend, put in effort and skill, then get that immeasurably larger buzz from looking at your work bearing fruit and improving. Can have things no one else has, locos no one else you know has, wagons that make your layout way more varied, coaches you've dreamed of. All by your own hand... could even have more irish steam to play with given kits are available! What a world eh. All for about the same money or less in many cases, a little of your time, and a lot of skills learned, friendships made consulting on how to do things and a grearer sense of reward.
Doesn't make you a rivet counter, or a prototypical modelling nerd... just makes you someone who's not a slave to these companies for their kicks.
The main purpose of the video was to outline how model railway prices had diverged so drastically relative to everything else. There has been a trend to the ultra detailed models which I would have concerns with if that was contributing to this. However, the items I looked at in the video were relatively unchanged in 10 years (i.e. money for old rope)! The point you're making regarding the costs of today taking the fun out of the hobby is a very valid one and I would agree there is a need to find a way to change this. I wouldn't disagree with the concept of kits suitable for the non-scratch builders. In another video I called out having interchangeable loco bodies so that lovers of a particular loco can have a range of their preferred liveries without shelling out for multiple locos. The current paradigm is only killing the hobby for many people.
@@EuviRail the kits are really a far cry from the skills needed to scratch build. Even an etched loco kit is very different to a scratch built brass loco and the skill set needed is waaaay less broad to achieve a very good result. Basically if you can solder two bits of brass together you'll muddle through it, especially with the aide of inexpensive folding tools and so many more easily available tools on the market that now make it childs play... but people just don't seem interested in trying for some reason. Its kinda like the chance to break out the RTR trap is there but people don't take it often which is a shame. Put it this way, be happy, help out some small businesses, gain some skills for life, some more perseverance, and best of all something you can look at and be truly proud to own. Or buy things. When its put like this it really seems like a no brainer but people just don't look at it that way for some reason.
The money for old rope thing is yeah sorta but nah it depends, I hear many say "but its the same tooling hornby used 10 years ago?" Etc. But so what? Is the company in the same hands? Nope. Does anyone really know if that is the same mold tool or just the same design of mold tool that has been reproduced? To replace a life expired one from the previous owner/management of hornby cutting costs on upkeep to keep prices low... it's a very complex issue which we really only see the surface of in most cases when we see a price. Sucks but every explination we come up with is mere speculation.
The interchangeable bodies thing is something very worth them doing. But there would have to be a quid in it for them somehow... never know though
People are paying these prices so I guess they are getting away with it. There might be more disposable income due to Covid and people going out less.
great vid i've stopped buying new locos from hornby etc.as they are now way over priced .these companies are pricing the modeller out the market.and without us.they will cease to operate.these price increases is just greed.they blame it on covid. etc sorry not buying it.
It's truly frustrating,for someone who, wants to start model railways! I think I'd be better of with Hornby's 'railroad' series
Hi John, 100% agree and it's people like yourself I had in mind when doing the video. Having coming back to the hobby myself in 2014 my experience since has been that quality is the best thing to invest in, particularly for your locomotives. The Railroad steam locos are fine but not the Railroad diesels which I'd avoid. Good quality models can always be sold on, very often at a profit if you look after them and keep the boxes but low grade models are very hard to sell on and lose a large portion of what value they had. And there's the frustration of poorly running models. Fewer but better models would be my advice. You'll really enjoy running them. Good quality pre-owned models are well worth considering be it through auctions houses or 2nd hand websites. Some of my favourite models came through this route and you can typically save 25-30% versus the new price though not necessarily on sites like eBay these days.
@@EuviRail Thanks for your reply,& advice,! , I hadn't considered steam loco's as I'm more of a diesel loco, guy, which Manufacturer's Make Reliable,diesel Models?
@@johnmichaeldorienjohn467 Hi John, the more serious diesel models are shared around the different manufacturers, Dapol for a good Class 52 or Class 68 for example, Hornby for a Class 43, 56, 60 or 67 and Bachmann for a range of diesels such as the 20, 24, 37, 47, 55, 57, 66 etc. Then there are new players such as Cavalax (Class 56) or Accurascale (Class 37 and 55). There isn't a one stop shop across all Classes so it will come down to the era / region you are modelling and your locos of interest that align with that.
@@EuviRail I'm going to be very flexible, with the Era I'm going to model, so likely I'll look at the second hand market & treat myself to 2 detailed model, when my funds allows!& thank you for your reply & advice! Stay Safe
Time to bring home the manufacturing.
Let's see who is first off the mark to make this happen. A popular football song comes to mind....
The challenge with that is that the cost of labour and capital investment needed would increase the costs of the models by a factor of almost 10
@@Ste1952 Well, Roco and Marklin-Trix invested in new factories in Eastern Europe to make their premium ranges.
A new DDC HO sound loco from Roco is around 300 to 500 euros in Germany. Roco-Fleischmann make most things in-house including motors. They still have spares available to order online for my Fleischmann DB103 loco made in the 1970s!
@@1maico1 Eastern Europe isn’t the UK and €500 for a moderately detailed loco is hopefully not where UK prices are heading.
The availability of spares from all major suppliers is another issue that everyone is worried about, this is major companies behaving like car producers no spares after a certain date i my opinion its a poor and shoddy way to behave Sorry to rant but if you can;t get spares for recent models what chance have we of getting new starters in the hobby i despair at times Regards Alan
Hi Alan, thanks for flagging that. My other beef is the lack of more detailed information on models which I want to cover in another. Manufacturers appear be just throwing models over the well to us with none of the supports you would expect when you pay £150+ for something.
wish my salary had gone up 200% in 10 yrs lol
Hi EuviRail, A shocking reality that's in no way justified ! One needs to add: higher prices but more Quality Control problems with Chinese Made. RTR now stands for Ready To Repair. Faulty wired decoder sockets, bad motors - most of the time underpowered, mechanical problems due to bad design engineering and the list goes on. The new yuppies investing for a return of + 10%, bookkeepers and lawyer running businesses only 'fast profit based'. The client is 'a wallet we take from' not a person who wants to enjoy what he is buying. So it's a 'morality & ethic' problem in the first place. The 'produce cheap' (junk) and 'throw away general mentality' - 'the' reason we have things made in China. It only takes a look in the trash bin to see how we produce waste - not to mention the carbon impact of 'global' transport and the rate of out of hand pollution... But then: people don't seem to care. A crap expensive 'exclusive' model sells out in no time ! Some are 'aware' and don't play the game... but becoming a rare breed.
These are the times of fast food but slow digestion. Big man but short character. Steep profits but shallow relationships. A time of a lots in the window but nothing in the room. More degrees but less sense. More knowledge (??) but less judgement, not to mention 'wisdom'. More experts but more problems. We have become long on quantity but short on quality....A paradox but reality.
I'm 'content' with the loco- and rolling roster on my model railway and very careful with what ' I don't need' to enjoy model railroading. I'm not paying these 'new' mafia prices!! Thanks for sharing. Cheers, Filip
Thanks Filip. I thinks it fair to say that the prices on some models are reaching an upper limit point for a lot of folks (including myself) that we aren't willing to go beyond in order to achieve something newly tooled with the Nth level of detail that you need your glasses to see. People will soon be afraid to run their locos because they cost so much!
@@EuviRail A sad world full of greed and viruses. I agree totally! Thanks
This makes me sad. Pre-owned for me unless these prices change significantly.
It says it's now not a kids hobby anymore is now it's now a pensioner hobby got more money and you taking a new Hobby people would like taking the model is out so
Hi Michael, unfortunately the era of the affordable Toy Train you can develop into something bigger would appear to be a thing of the past.
It's just got worse!
Yep, with Hornby's HST new web price of £362.99, it now assumes top spot on the list for the largest increase at 218%. Well done Hornby, you've taken over the top spot from Bachmann!
@@EuviRail Haha. Shocking! I'm glad I bought most of my models a few years back.
Go raibh mhaith agat a chara!
China is a pain especially if we go to war??? Model prices are expensive I do not think they have to be as high as you've discussed sure adjust for inflation but cheap China isn't so cheap. Those companies may as well make the models in Europe. Or are they just being greedy.....🤔?
Hi Guy, the latter I'm afraid. They can get a much greater margin with producing in China, though the costs have gone up there, as have the transport costs so it's not as compelling as it once was. The other issue now is the loss of skills, competency and infrastructure to build highly detailed models in the UK or Europe which means there is a barrier to entry now that is hard to overcome. And this applies to a lot of items, not just railway models! If the worst came to the worst, there would be a massive gap in the availability of most electronic consumer goods, toys etc. with a large lag before any alternative manufacturing came onboard. Too many eggs in the one basket if you ask me.
hi , it would help if hornby still made locos etc in england. soon this game will be for the rich only, no wonder children today dont want to know,even the hornby railroad r 3086 flying scotsman is over 100 pounds,and Hattons are not cheap anymore.soon its all going to do a Titanic,
Thanks Peter. I can remember the original premise behind the Hornby Railroad range was that these were the simpler lower cost models made in China. Now everything is made there! Comment on Hattons is correct. Also the price on pre-owned items appears to have gone through the roof as well.
@@EuviRail agreed. i recently offered hattons a mint hornby Brighton Belle,and they only offered me sixty pounds ! but are selling for 170 pounds, i am now keeping the belle.