For me She-Hulk was the last straw, up until that point I was one of the people who defended Phase 4 and the MCU in general, but after that show it all changed, I just couldn't understand how the same studio that gave us The Winter Soldier could've watched such trash and said: "yep, release that, it's going to turn out so well for us👍".
I feel you. I held onto hope a little after She-Hulk, because even though I didn't enjoy it, I figured at least I could see what they were TRYING to do with that series, and accepted that maybe it was just meant for a niche crowd who are into that 2 Broke Girls-type of show (which isn't me), and I know people in real life who enjoyed it, so I thought I'd let it slide as just being "not for me". I did enjoy Wakanda Forever which I think came after it, but everything beyond that has been pretty bad (minus Guardians 3 of course).
@@FrameDevice Ironically, I do enjoy Two Broke Girls to an extent, but that show and the audience knows what it's trying to be and is consistent, She-Hulk, like Secret Invasion, fails at everything it tries to be, it fails at being funny, it fails at being a lawyer show (the writers themselves said they didn't know how to write court room scenes) and it fails at being a super-hero show, also what makes it more hard to watch is the connection to the Marvel universe and it's characters, like the part when she completely disrespects Bruce and his experiences and the fact that every single character it introduces (Titania, The Wrecking Crew, Intelligencia, Skaar) are worse than a parody of what they really are. It just feels like Marvel Studios doesn't care anymore, I mean, the finale of the show makes it feel like they didn't even care about their own show. I think that twerking scene is the lowest this universe can go
@@cahe6161 Yeah, I don't disagree with you. It was a pretty bad show. There were moments where I could see a flicker of what it was trying to be, and if they had put more effort into it and been successful, then maybe I wouldn't think so negatively of it, but yeah, to me it's a low point for Marvel. Maybe worse than Secret Invasion or Ant-Man 3, but I'll be honest, I think they're all equally bad in very different ways.
@@FrameDevice why do you say "niche crowd who are into that 2Broke Girls-type show"? Two Broke Girls was a successful show that ran for 6 seasons and about 6 years. I think you're mistaking "different demographic" for "niche". Similarly, people like you may have hated she-hulk, but looking at Nielsen reports of "minutes watched" for each episodes of every marvel show, and adjusting for differences in episode length, She-Hulk comes out with the 3rd highest median viewership per episode, after Wanda Vision, and with Loki at number 1. Plenty of people enjoyed this show. I certainly did.
@@hypercortical7772 To be clear, I don't mean "niche" as in "small audience," I mean "niche" as in "certain audience." Like, there's a certain audience who would be into a show like 2 Broke Girls, and an audience that would be into a show like One Piece, etc. Different strokes for different folks.
I think post Infinity War and Endgame was the golden opportunity for the studio to start doing more complex villains and telling more mature stories where the heroes would lose every now and then, but the studio instead chose to double down on the comedy instead.
I think they looked at Joss Whedons style of humor from Avengers and decided to apply to almost every project since then. I'm so sick of quippy dialogue and constant jokes in the MCU
@@Ghostykitten I agree. I guess the studio is trying to play it safe by sticking with what is familiar (jokes and what not) but honestly I can't be sure because Infinity War being serious made a huge difference and the numbers prove that people loved the change in direction.
I used to ask myself how they were ever going to top Thanos, but you bring up a good point. Just simply sticking to a similarly mature and complex style of storytelling would have been enough. It would have been interesting, even if it didn't top Thanos, it would've challenged the heroes on screen and audiences all the same, unlike this new shit.
@@adam3647 Precisely. I'm not sure what the studio is aiming for anymore. It might be the case that everyone involved right now is just too tired to make anything interesting anymore.
It's strange... It seems like the majority of people loved Ragnarok because it was all quirky and funny. After Love & Thunder, I went back and watched it again for the first time in a few years and it really doesn't hold up. Thor is a completely different character than what we were presented with previously. The double plot smooshed together doesn't work pacing wise (planet Hulk and Ragnarok). The jokes juvenile. It's like Tiki took all the worst traits of the MCU and dialed up to 11. It seemed fresh then, a zany over the top movie, but with the benefit of hindsight and what the MCU has become, I don't think it holds up at all.
Great 1st video man. TH-cam has sort of subconsciously trained me to ignore videos from smaller creators but Im glad I took the gamble with this. Editing is usually something that takes channels a while to get good at or master but the editing here is better and more in sync than 90% of bigger MCU creators making these types of videos. Keep up the hard work. It will surely pay off. 6.6k views is a rarity for a 1st video but it just speaks to the quality here
I remember seeing Thor’s hammer at the end of Iron man 2. I was excited cause I knew Thor was coming. None comic people would ask what it means and we were all excited for the next film. Now I have to wonder where’s Vision, Clea, Skaar, Starfox or Hercules? No one asks me who they are, because no one expects to see any of them again. Where’s Shang Chi?
For me, the issues really boil down to a lack of coherent through-line. I watched a video recently where the essayist listed out the number of character appearances over the course of each phase, and post-EG has exactly none of that. I need a character or three to hold onto, to follow their reactions and stories as the world spins around them. Tony, Steve and Thor held the world together.
Dr strange is arguably filling one of those slots, but there isnt any coherent built up for a team. Spiderman is his own thing now, Hulk could ve been the " guy in the chair " maybe, what is Anr Man doing now, Strange is with Clea God knows where and he s never brought up again, Sam needs a movie but it looks like his movie will be bloated, Shang Chi should ve had a sequel announced long ago.
@@tonileo9849 Can you imagine if they'd found a reasonable way to tie the more established heroes into the new heroes movies? Shang-Chi is the only one that felt like it was part of the larger whole with Wong's cameo, even if it was kinda silly.
@@MsIvalane yeah, if we take a look at the shows and movies, since phase 1 started, the only multiverse things are WandaVision, Loki, NWH, and MoM. Dr Strange appears in 2 of those, him and Wong should ve been a constant but in NWH he really made weird choices and in MOM he felt like 2nd fiddle and Wong besides the silly Shsng Chi and SheHulk cameos there s nothing for him
I think much of that comes down to leadership's arrogance. The first 3 phases were actually fairly flexible. They weren't planned out that much, they threw a bunch of stuff against the wall and saw what stuck and what didn't. And they capitalized on the things that worked. And the subsequent through-line you described was all based on audience reactions to what worked. They had no idea what they wanted to do with Thanos when he made his appearance in both The Avengers or the first Guardians movie. And years later, they finally fleshed that out by spending the rest of the phases just following up on characters and character drama that resonated with audiences. By the end of phase 3, though, that started to change. Marketing seemed to highlight that they put a lot of eggs into just very few baskets. With Captain Marvel, they decided for the audience that she would be the next central character. And while her movie did well, it was in spite of the character and not because of. And with the success of Phases 1-3, they thought that they could bombard us with content again, without working up to it, despite lacking the sort of narrative foundation that phases 1 and 2 offered. Lots of content is fine: it worked out well for phase 3. But it has to be earned. When your grand multi movie narrative has to restart again from scratch, it needs a solid foundation. Strangely, the MCU in Phase 4 is pretty much where DC was during Phases 1-3: scrambling to catch up to where Marvel was during Phase 3, and planning an unproven set of films and characters out far in advance.
@@seaofseeof earned is the right word. I forgot about Thanos being aimless, even Joss Whedon said he didnt know what to do with him, and Marvel gave the films to the Russo bros, for thr better. Marvel also had problems with Ike Pearlmutter until Feige stood up so that was a problem even when, looking back, the MCU seemed organized. Now if we break it down, Phase 1 was pretty straightforward: build up towards the Avengers, with each member getting a film, except Clint and Nat but they got small parts still. Phase 2, in hindsight, seems to be the most "random" if you will but it makes sense now looking back. It continues the story of the Avengers after New York: Tony gets PTSD which will carry over to AoU, Steve becomes more disillusioned with the present day, Thor....well...is there in Dark World but we all know Ragnarok was his moment ( although his vision in AoU makes now looking back). Then we have new players in Guardians 1 opening the cosmic side of the MCU, then we have Age of Ultron, a movie that aged pretty well i think, being the first and last time the original 6 worked as a team from start to finish, the film also finally gave Clint some depth, it continued Tony's paranoia over another invasion, it continued Steve's resentment towards not having a "home" to go to( the wood chopping scene), AoU will have rammifications for phase 3 as well which leads to Civil War. You get the point i think, Marvel just needs a very good plan right now and take a step back and think.
Moviegoers, particularly younger ones ranging from late millenials to middle zoomers, tend to forget that genre films generally have a shelf life. We saw it with the Western in the 60's, the cop movie in the 70's, the action flick in the 80's, the teen comedy in the 90's, and now tge capeshit from the oughts to now. When the dust clears, nobody can say that the superhero movie didn't have a good run. And frankly I'm ready to see it go: for all the reasons you listed and more, Im actively and excitedly OVER the half-dozen cultural zeitgeist moments that Disney and Warner just expect me to shlurp up every year.
I agree, although I think the 2000's was more the era of fantasy movies and the 2010's was superhero territory. Honestly, I feel like the 2020's will end up being the age of horror films.
I wish I could recall which video essay I saw months ago that said something similar, but they also noted how the movie musical from the 50s-60s ended up dying out too. People we fatigued then as well. Trends change and the MCU never accounted for that. They have also never planned an appropriate end to this way too long franchise. You can keep going on forever as seen with comic books and even animated media, but with movies and TV shows (even soap operas) you have to get to an end eventually. The best shows, movies, and series usually (try to) go out with a dignified bang rather than a geriatric on life support clinging to life. The money train and story lines must end, otherwise the subject ends up “overstaying their welcome”. It’s something a lot of these big studios (Marvel/Disney, Warner, Sony, etc) refuse to acknowledge even though they know they damn well should.
Yeah this is heartbreaking for me. I grew up with the MCU and a lot of my fondest memories of my childhood is just my and my brother or friends watching these movies and having a good time with them. To see what it has become is heartbreaking. By the way, this was really good for your first video man! I am really looking forward to seeing your other videos if they are of high quality like this one!
Shehulk is what truly broke the camels back for from going from cautious to noticing what happened to the mcu and yet I still watch with hope I just find it so sad watching movies I once loved killing themselves slowly
Jesus Christ, I went to go to sleep and I woke up with the video at over 10,000 views!!! This is incredible!! I never expected my first video would do this well this quickly, or have almost 200 subscribers! Thank you to everyone who watched! This is amazing! As an update, I am currently making the second Quick Talks video, and I will be uploading a 2-minute preview of my first properly researched video essay on my Patreon (patreon.com/FrameDevice) later today. It'll be under my Tier 1 sub. It'll probably be a little while until that video is completed, but until then, I will be aiming to put out regular Quick Talks videos, including a 1-2 minute preview of the upcoming one for Tier 2 Patreon subscribers coming within the week.
Forgot to pin this thread, if you don't pin it only you will see it as the first comment in the video, it appears in a random place for the rest of us.
This was a relly good video man, congrats. And I agree, a 100%. I was 10yo in 2008 when IronMan came out and it was outstanding to me to imagine movies being connected after that post credit scene with Nick Fury, heck, I remember doing my whole research on who he was, started reading comicbooks, seeking more and more and seeing the little hints for other characters like Cap's shield in IronMan 2. Certainly felt a lot of emotions when Thanos appeared at the end of Avengers and smiled at the idea of "courting death". Now the MCU feels like something that was great, but everything that made it great is long gone. If it always was a highly produced, corporate milking cow, it didn't feel as such, but now it just feels like that. No care, no love, no emotion: just greed and lack of appreciation for what it once was.
I think the biggest problem is that the MCU doesn’t reward people who are invested in specific characters anymore. If you were a fan of Iron Man or Captain America exclusively, the Infinity Saga gave you 7-8 movies over 8-11 years. There was a film with your favorite character in it almost every year. Even if you were a fan of Hawkeye, you got 5 movies where he made an appearance. With again, at most two years between appearances. If you're a fan of Shang Chi? You get one movie. Supposedly he's going to have more appearances in the future, but it's already been 2 years and the projects he's supposed to appear in are another 2 years away. There was no momentum built like there was for OG Avengers characters. And the characters that have made multiple appearances often lack character continuity. Wanda feels like a completely different person in MOM. Scott and Cassie's relationship, the heart of the first two Ant-Man films, is degraded and sidelined. It's almost like fans are now punished for actually caring about characters and their relationships.
Going Multiverse ironically means that the stakes are gone, not higher. Anyone that dies can always come back in a parallel version played by the next hot young thing. Case in point: 2 versions of Kang has already been killed. Nothing happened.
Multiversal wouldn't kill the stakes if we cared anything about the main universe. Or if they could make up there mind if multiverse meant time travel, or vaguely related worlds that have seemingly arbitrary differences between them.
My biggest issue with she hulk was the way she refers to heroes as narcissists etc. but then goes on to have her show every common trait but not show her getting over that
Here's my best advice to you since I'm also a classic MCU fan... step away and just wait a while. The storm will pass and Marvel will find itself again. For now, just consider Avengers Endgame as the true ending and ignore everything that came after. It's what I did was I was able to make peace with it. It saved me so much stress and helped me make peace with it. Like Jay Sherman said "If we stop watching bad movies, they'll stop making bad movies."
@@LastBastianno way home is really necessary for Spiderman fans! The sad tone of GOTG3 pushed me away from it, haven't watched it yet and idk if I will as I like Rocket too much to watch him suffer
Dr. Strange was the end point for me. I had a feeling the ride was over after Endgame but Spider-Man gave me hope that maybe it'll be worth another go. Sadly after walking out of MoM I knew it was over and I can accept
GOTG 3 was beautiful. I've been disillusioned with the rest of Marvel, but I'm looking forward to seeing more of James Gunn's work in DC. His character-driven stories really hammer your heart.
As someone who grew up with the mcu and was full on sobbing after the end of endgame. I feel heartbroken for the state it is in. It was such a big part of my life growing up, to the point that I had made friends I wouldn't otherwise have because of this franchise.
Alot of my disappointment for phase 4 comes from Wandavision and Loki. They were just so good, too good. Wandavision started off phase 4 with a bang. Incredible writing, anticipation every week, and a plot that made sense. It was a silly sitcom show with horrific undertones beneath it that crept up on the viewers at random moments reminding the audience that there is a darker reality hiding beneath all the costumes and vibrant colors. It’s post credit scene left us with anticipation, with Wanda reading the Darkhold and the foreshadowing of her downfall into villainy and the repercussions that could have on the MCU as a whole. Loki came right after and gave us Kang, with the finale of Loki leaving us on a cliffhanger that changed the MCU entirely. Again, a show with amazing writing and a plot that made sense. And it foreshadowed a larger MCU conflict. Everyone expected the things set up in these two shows to culminate in one giant event with Dr Strange Multiverse of Madness that would break open the multiverse and it’s possibilities and reveal the true face of conflict for the next two phases. instead it was short, rushed, and gave us no answers.
I forgave Wandavision for the bohner joke hoping they'd rectify that mistake in multiverse but nope. I also was hoping that multiverse would confirm that doctor srange was not responsible for the multiverse incident in No way home and was really the responsibility of lady Loki when she killed he who remains but NOPE. I also hoped the cameos would matter more and that there would be more multiverse stuff happening but NOPE, Marvel just had to choose the least creative way to tackle this movie. I want whoever was behind that movie to get fired from marvel for lacking a creative brain.
@@zogwort1522 i don’t think they’re the best productions from marvel ever of course, but i do think they’re the best phase 4 had to offer. And because phase 4 started out with them, it gave everyone false hope at to what phase 4 would turn out to be, that is, multiverse scale characters cause multiverse scale repercussions that would last until phase 6. Wandavision had the Disney+ website crashing every friday. Everyone had their theories and it was just a fun time. I just feel like there was a level of hype and enthusiasm during the Wandavision and Loki era that we never saw again
WandaVision had me excited... but it was obvious about half way through that the showrunners/writers had never actually read a comic book. When the fan theories are significantly better than the actual show... it is a failure of the writing
@eduardomurua6919 I originally bought into the concept of Agents of Shield... Remember when the tag-line was, "its all connected."? I've always wanted an integrated universe for TV and movies. AoS was a true disappointment... that I hoped they learned from WV was supposed to open the door to a "new" integrated universe. And while Disney and the show runners blame covid for the reduced episode count. . I truly doubt they were going to follow through with anything good. The story was crap... they teaeed more in the intro than they managed to deliver.
Hard disagree. Wandavision was exciting and had huge potential, but it wasted it. The promising leads went nowhere and Wanda herself was character assasinated. Writers of the series tried to write a story about Wanda's sympathetic and tragic decline into anti-villain territory, but Wanda's actions were so extreme the effort fell flat on its face. It ended up being a story that can only be summarized as "with great power comes no responsibility". As for Loki, it did an irreparable damage to the core mechanics of MCU and character assasinated Hiddleston's Loki himself. His transformation over watching a movie is utterly unbelievable. The person he turns into is pathetic.
Taika Waititi turning Thor in to a comedian was the start of the slide for me. I was expecting Gorr to be a truly epic villain and they turned him into the child snatcher. Disney + spamming out tv shows is also diluting what was special. They’ve done a ‘Star Wars’ basically. It’s all Disney
My suggestion: The MCU should use Kang and time travel as an excuse to go back, re-shoot scenes & seriously fix the worst of this stage...especially Secret Invasion. With everything always available on Dis+ there's a real chance to do something groundbreaking in re-edits.
But to respond to your actual post, do you mean like bonus content for Disney plus? Or retconning things that didn’t work in the theatrical release and reimagining those things for the D+ uploads?
Deep down I don't think people are hating on the MCU but instead they are against Disney. For years disbey ignored fans and now those fans are saying I told you so.
You couldn't have said it any better. Especially with that back to back damage of Antman & The Wasp Quantumania and Secret Invasion..I gave up trying to defend something I eventually would have to give in to telling the truth about. Hopefully they dig themselves out of their hole.
I don't understand how so many people put Loki up with No Way Home and recently GOTG3 as the best of phase 4. Yeah, it was a fun watch but they basically assassinated the character of Loki, made everything meaningless by establishing there is no free will in the MCU and made time travel/ the multiverse aspect of it so fucking complicated and contradictory.
This is an incredibly great first video, like I never think about subscribing after 1 video especially when its just basic video essay content but this is doing it for me Im 3xcited to see what u do next, also u kinda sound like abed which us just super funny
Quantumania, lost the weekend to a 35M film of about a Bear cranked out on cocaine. Barbie made 1 billion dollars while all the Disney WB tentpoles crashed and burned.
11:57 is almost identical to the teacher/villain of sharkboy and lavagirl. Seriously, look at the scene of sharkboy and lavagirls climax, its hilariously similar!
What makes the MCU didn't start 15 years ago as it started with marvel comics in the 1960s I think it was. As what it feels like we're seeing is the death of the marvel universe as a brand.
Lately I’ve been finding myself missing mid-late 2000s superhero movies - I’m really, really starting to miss more self-contained stuff like the Raimi Spider-Man movies or the Dark Knight where there’s no big world shaking events happening elsewhere in in the world, it’s just this one guy. I miss how simple that felt.
I agree but Sam Wilson IS a legacy character from the infinity saga, he just has a different tile now. I think people forget that, he's not a completely different character and I personally love his character. There's definitely a lot more they can do with him, but I definitely would NOT compare him to She Hulk or Ms Marvel.
I kinda wish they'd just ended the MCU with Endgame, and maybe a few extra movies like Black Widow and the Spiderman ones. That was the perfect send off for the series, but noooo they just have to milk it for all its worth.
Marvel's biggest problem is failing to know when to end the story. It's why a lot of people struggle with mainstream comics. A story can't go on forever, and all Disney cares about is milking a franchise until there was nothing left. If the studio would have taken off for 5 years after Endgame and reintroduced us to the world with a time skip, people would have been much more willing to jump on with this next phase of the mcu. But we all know the only thing the studio cares about is raking in more cash with the few remaining scraps of stories and recognizable characters they have left.
People are celebrating the fall of Marvel, Star Wars and Disney because of the way that directors, actors, and management have openly discussed their lack of respect of the source material or the fans themselves - then when the movie bombs they call anyone who did not like it [insert noun]-ists.
Anyone that follows sports understands a “rebuilding season”. All “End of Saga” events will be devastating, requiring a “Rebuilding Phase” immediately after. This happened after “Endgame”, will happen after “Secret Wars”, and will happen again after the end of the “Mutant Saga”. This, too, shall pass.
I feel like after End game, Disney should have taken a good 2-3 year break to REALLY draw out and plan a proper phase 4, 5, and even 6 roadmap. All the junk we're getting right now is the result of aimless writing, devoid of all creativity that the studio was once known for. Art takes time and had they given their writers, animators and directors the time to properly plan and create, we wouldn't have these creatively bankrupt titles dropping! There are hundreds of deeply interesting comics for the MCU to adapt into film, but they're so obsessed with pumping out content, regardless of quality, that now their reputation is being damaged irreparably!
I agree with everything you said. I also feel like we're still stuck in the aftermath of Infinity War and Endgame. The snap is still being talked about in about every project, and it's honestly getting old. I get it, half the population got wiped away, but those movies were 4-5 years ago, it's time we moved on.
I am in a very similar boat to you, but I think it’s done. I don’t know how they can save things other than retconning almost the entirety of phase 4. With the abuses behind the screen I am okay with letting it die and finding new things that deserve our attention.
To me, the MCU has become the classic, tragic counter-example to 'quit while you're ahead'. For a few years, it was untouchable - absolutely untouchable. One of the best runs of movies ever. Critics loved them, fans loved them, everyone loved them. They really were that good. If they'd quit then, or even a few years later, the MCU would have been as emblematic of its era as the 'Star Wars' or 'Ghostbusters' films were of the '80's. There'd be retrospectives and fan conventions and spin-off novels, keeping the love alive. But by now, it's the 'Simpsons' instead - something that wearily drags on, year after year, largely only sustained by the sheer force of its celebrity. I take no pleasure in its downfall - I'm just tired, and want it to end so I can actually start looking forward to this sort of movie again.
WB/DC is DOING FAR WORSE, Flash was the biggest super hero film flop in history, did worse than Green Lantern or catwoman. Blue Beetle was released DOA in theatres I never heard any news they were making a film of what is a C List Character.
I hate how disney treated the entire phase 4 lke every single character was in a vacation roadtrip and kang and the multiverse shit was just a bad habit from an annoying neighbor next-door.
Great movie and well thought out points. Miss the days when MCU movies were events that everyone looked forward to, but thankful to have lived through it. It was a fun time.
I also feel like a lot of people feel overwhelmed by thr ammount of projects that have come out. It used to feel so special when a movie csme out. I remember seeing Captain America: The Winter Soldier five times in theater. I used to be the type of fan who would go see every film in theater and itd be an event for me and my friends. I used to know all of the lore too and could expain how everything was connected. Now I couldn't tell you how anything is connected and I haven't bothered to watch the latest stuff like Antman or Secret Invasion. The only Marvel shows I really enjoyed was Moonknight and Loki. Its truly superhero fatigue. It sucks to be an MCU fan rn. I'd rather rewatch Captain America the First Avenger for thr 20th time then watch any new projects.
Secret Invasion might have better if they included at least a couple of Avengers in it, like the new Captain America. People were expecting Avengers in it like in the comic book story. Instead it was Fury vs the skrulls, and his one ally skrull played by Amelia Clark.
This video came out a bit later than expected. I had originally planned to have it uploaded a week-and-a-half ago, but later is better than never. Still getting into the swing of things. This will be the first of a series of videos on my channel called Quick Talks, where I make short, informal videos about the goings-on in the entertainment industry and pop culture. Expect more regular uploads from here on out. Sneak peaks at future content will be uploaded to my Patreon (patreon.com/FrameDevice) for Tier 1 subs. I am still hard at work on the main video essays, and I will endeavor to have a sneak peak at the first video prepared in the coming weeks for Tier 2 subs. Let me know what video ideas I should talk about next! EDIT: Holy crap, I didn't expect to hit 1K views in only three days! Thanks a lot! Looking forward to putting out more content soon!
Someone on here (i wish i could remember who) has a great video on how the MCU can't keep its own concepts straight with regards to 'multiverse'. Is it time lines? is it parallel universes? Is it alternative realities? The explanations in end game, loki and MoM are all different
2040 is too far maybe 1 phase to make part 2s of everything but still in infinity saga there were like 20 heroes in the entire franchise now we have like 50 they did a mistake by introducing a lot of characters
I really do hope the MCU can pull itself together. It has put out a lot of cool movies with many beloved characters and, it would be a shame if it all just ended like this.
I thought The Eat my hammer line was actually fitting of a scientist getting superpowers and trying to figure out a cool catchphrase. That might be the last time I ever defend Love and Thunder
For me, Doctor Strange 2 was the last straw. When that movie was announced sometime after endgame, I was so excited for it! The visuals, the music, Benedict Cumberbatch as Doctor Strange. I had this theory at the time that Doctor Strange would replace Tony as the face of the MCU moving forward because they are both so similar to each other. Plus, I also had the theory that Strange would be the new father figure to Peter and WE DID GET THAT...until, you know...the ending... When each released MCU movie got worse overtime while also learning that MOM had very extensive reshoots, I immediately knew something was wrong, and when the day came when that film was out. Doctor Strange wasn't even the main character of his own damn movie! He doesn't even go through an arc and even Cumberbatch in a podcast alluded to the fact that this didn't feel like his movie. Scott Derrickson did Doctor Strange justice and I wished we got that horror movie he had envisioned because I bet anything that the visuals in that film would have been so fucking wild. I felt completely robbed, and now with the rumor that Doctor Strange is not even being considered as one of the leaders for the Avengers. I will potentially have to wait until the team up movies, or 2028 and beyond to see Doctor Strange 3 if that happens. That's way too damn long! Especially when the sequel was sloppily written and not up to par with the original in any way. It's really saying something when Spider-Man No Way Home was a better Doctor Strange movie than Doctor Strange 2. Like I said, it would have help if, you know, you centered the damn movie around the character it's based on! Shit, man... Ok, rant over, uuuughh...
MCU isnt just bad, its aggressively and stubbornly bad. I think people have a right to be mad at it. They didnt just drop the ball. Like Star Wars, they smugly alienated and ostracized their fans. Geek culture became cool, then forgot where it came from and didnt want to hang out with the people who put them there any more. Now they’re not the hot new thing any more, and the people whose money they took for granted have moved on.
I genuinely believe Disney plus has killed not just the MCU but Disney as whole like most people know all their new films will be on Disney plus within a couple months. Also people struggle to keep up.
13:00 The "Agatha" series has been re-named again to "Darkhold Diaries", the *third* name this series has had and it's *not even on the air yet!* (Actually, they should call it "Agatha: We're Not Really Doing This KTHXBYE"...)
There are hundreds of reasons at this point I can’t say Disney and marvel deserve all the bad vibes they are getting.. from destroying our favorite franchises to doing things like finding ways not to pay creators and not paying residuals.. and hiring these people who don’t even know about the franchise… it takes a lot to tell a fan.. who probably spent thousands of dollars on books merch videos games etc that they cant be mad.. when something you love has been hijacked… they are lucky that people even talk about them at all because the state of these projects are abysmal.. and if you take the star wars or marvel name of of most these projects they wouldnt make it out of the planning phase
Honestly, one of the better and more concise essays about this topic. So much of the discourse is either pretentious or weirdly bigoted i.e. 'anti-woke', so I'm glad to see a take I mostly agree with.
we gotta admit it mcu is dying without RDJ, Chris Evans and Scarlett Johannson and if all the heroes introduced get only 1 movie before the major crossover then the next avengers films are confirmed dead and I wouldn't give a damn if any new heroes die expect for all the heroes from infinity saga because there is simply no character development
They did the Infinity saga WAY to early You forgot the GIGANTIC, TITANIC kaiju fight in Egypt that EVERYONE saw... Somehow I think people would have remembered GODZILLA fighting MOTHRA IRL. Oh yes... Kang, big BAD ASS.. That got his ass kicked BY ANTS. and a FIST FIGHT with ant man!!! A normal human... Wow what a way to drag me in.
The truth is whether it's now or way down the road, the death of the MCU will be ugly, because they're not going to stop for artistic reasons. They'll only stop if/when it's no longer profitable.
Made a lot of good points but I have to disagree on the upcoming slate man. The Disney plus shows coming up are definitely worrying besides Daredevil and Loki S2, but let’s not pretend and act like Deadpool 3, Captain America 4, thunderbolts, and blade aren’t extremely hyped up. I just can’t let you disrespect Sam Wilson like that man, he’s earned the respect and he deserves his film.
I really like your take. It's refreshing to see content that isn't focused on sensationalism and rage baiting, which is unfortunately quite common these days. Please continue creating this type of content.
Overall a great first episode. Keep it up! However, I think you're forgetting how antagonistic the writers, directors, and actors have been to the fandom. Calling them racists and basement dwellers as a way to shield themselves from any criticism. When you keep that in mind, the hate is absolutely justified.
Part of the blame also lies on Marvel/Disney marketing department. I remember the character Iron Heart having mixed reactions when the trailers and media started calling her the next Tony Stark of the MCU but in the actual movie she is nothing like that and there is not any dialogue from Riri Williams comparing herself to Tony. In fact in the movie, she has more common with MCU Spider-Man than Iron Man.
I also think that kid from Iron Man 3 (forgot his name) should be the next Iron Man - Iron Lad. It's kinda strange that he appeared only in one movie and on the Stark's funeral and that's it. Would like to see him in the future.
Great video, a nice point of view on the whole debacle surrounding the MCU. The only thing I disagree with is the part regarding all the creators who are ridiculing Disney at the moment: I don't think it's malice or clickbait (maybe that's a little bit yes) but I'm convinced the hatred comes precisely from those who loved this world and most of all feels mocked by the direction taken by Disney. I see it more as a way to make the higher ups understand that it's time to change course and quickly but, as you say, it could really be too late
It's a mixture. I'm not saying everyone with a negative take on the MCU is dishonest or malicious, but those types of actors definitely are a big part of that trend. There's also a lot of creators who simply never liked the MCU or, like me, loved it once and fell out of love with what it started to become. But the MCU has long been a target for right-wing channels and grifters, so you're also gonna find a lot of those on the platform as well.
@@FrameDeviceunfortunately I knew you were gonna make it political as soon as I heard your critique, just because some of the creators you highlighted are on the other end of the political spectrum doesn't mean they are wrong, and they correctly recognized the direction the MCU was going before you and pointed it out. Maybe we highlight the same glaring examples those channels used in their videos because we agree and those are the simplest examples of a deeper problem with the writing and direction(or lack thereof) of the entire current MCU.
@@Gengh13 I don't know the political leanings of the channels I searched for. I just searched for negative reviews of the MCU to grab screenshots. If all of those channels are right-wing, maybe that says something about the type of people who typically complain about the MCU on TH-cam than it does about my own political leanings.
15:18 Guy, what are you talking about? Shang-Chi received positive reviews as did Ms. Marvel, Moon Knight, and even Falcon and the Winter Solider. The problem that I have with MCU fans is a refusal to evolve with the franchise that they claim to love so much. They think because they don't care about Shang-Chi or Ms. Marvel that no one cares about these characters, which simply isn't case. MCU "fans" need to move on from legacy characters and if they can't do that then it maybe it's best for them to STOP watching.
I didn't say the movie didn't receive positive reviews, just that the character has only gotten (based on what I can see) a lukewarm-to-generally-positive reception from audiences. I'm not saying people don't like him, but I don't think he's at the level of enthusiasm as a character like Tony Stark or Steve Rogers. At least, not yet. But I loved the movie personally. It was one of my favorite movies of Phase 4. And I liked Simu Liu's performance.
@@realityshifter3399 So, the thing is, those kinds of rating systems don't really mean that much to me. Unless I know the methodology behind who voted on those polls, how many voters there were, and what sort of biases they might have, then I don't know how representative of a sample they are of the general population's position. Second, unless they distinguish between "liking" a character and "loving" them, then I don't see how helpful it is. If a majority of people said they "liked" Shang-Chi rather than "didn't like" him, then all that tells me is that most people generally don't dislike him, but it doesn't tell me the level of enthusiasm people have for the character. It's the same problem as with how Rotten Tomatoes works-if 99% of critics give a movie a fresh rating, does that mean that 99% of critics thought the film was amazing? No, it just means that 99% of critics thought the movie didn't suck. And it's the same with those audience ratings. Look, nothing about this video is meant to shame people who like the MCU, and I feel like I give a good bit of credit to it myself, more than most people online do. If you like Shang-Chi, I'm right there with you, I like him too. But I'm just saying, I'm not convinced that he's as popular as most of the mainstays from earlier phases, which does make a difference.
@@FrameDevice If the average critical score is between 7-9 out of 10 then yeah, most critics think the film is amazing or at least good. Shang-Chi received the average critical score of a 7.5 out of 10 which is an above average score. So, yeah I would say that the character is popular.
@@realityshifter3399 Yeah, okay, fine. I'm not interested in splitting hairs over this. Suffice it to say, however popular Shang-Chi is as a character, he's certainly nowhere near as popular as Iron Man or Captain America were (unless you care to argue that he is, in which case I'm afraid we'll simply have to agree to disagree), and yet right now he seems to be one of the most popular of the post-Endgame roster, which is a lower bar than what the first three phases have established.
I completely agree with everything you said. I've never read the comics, but I fell in love with the MCU years ago. Seeing it disgrace and bury itself in dirt is surely disappointing and heartbreaking. Oh, and also, if you hadn't told us that this is your first video, I wouldn't have known! You did a fantastic job in every regard! Keep it up!
Let’s objectively review phase 4! Here we go: Black Widow - If this had come out around the same time as Iron Man 3 like it was supposed to, it probably wouldn’t have ended up as the mean-spirited feminist garbage it is. 3/10 Shang Chi - Boring and irrelevant, 4/10 Eternals - Somehow even more boring and irrelevant, Justice League for Marvel dick riders, 0/10 Spider-Man - The best of the phase 4 films, and by that I mean it’s the least shit. For a Spider-Man fan? It’s a fun nostalgia trip. As a standalone movie? Dogshit. 6/10 Dr. Strange - It’s that time of the month for Scarlet Witch, the movie. 2/10 Thor - CGI Natalie Portman biceps should be proof enough that Disney/Marvel only wants to push agendas with these movies. 0/10 Black Panther - Once again, replace a male actor with a female one and expect people to believe it makes sense. No, little 5’4” 90lbs Mary Sue isn’t going to throw a 6’5” 300lbs trained soldier, no matter how much martial arts training she has. 1/10 WandaVision - I actually really liked the idea for this one, each new episode being a different era of TV, but they completely fumbled the concept for a mini-series to tie into the most bland phase 4 movie. 5/10 Falcon - Political commentary on race issues that happened 6 years before it was released, shoddily pinned on post Endgame events that make the racial argument look like a complete joke. 2/10 Loki - The progenitor of the multiversal apocalypse, kill it with fire. 1/10 What If…? - Who? 0/10 Hawkeye - Why wasn’t this just a “prequel” series telling the Ronin arch? Literally would’ve been the best Marvel show on D+. 2/10 Moon Knight - Despite having a pretty good actor (Poe was the one good part of the sequel trilogy), they somehow made a man who kills people in his sleep boring. 1/10 Ms. Marvel - Who? 0/10 I Am Groot - The “turn beloved characters into babies” thing should’ve been aborted after Baby Nut. 2/10 She-Hulk - Probably the worst show of all time, everyone who worked on it should be blacklisted from the industry. -100/10 And we’ll toss this in as a freebie: GOTG V3 - Probably the best movie produced by Disney since like 2016, only possible because James Gunn actually knows what the fuck he’s doing. 9.5/10
I completely agree; there are too much diversifications and roads to “nowhere” and that dilutes the quality. With respect; I really do not understand what is the meaning of “Moon Night” or the “She Hulk” in the whole story; the Eternals and the Shang Chi movie seem to be going in another direction from the main story, they made one of my favorite characters, Thor to look like a “big joke” which he is definetely not. On the other hand, there are 4 spidermans existing at the same time (I just hope there will not be more of them - they have compensated that really perfectly in the last spiderman movie). My questions are; What happened to Silver Surfer; where is Galactus?
oh crap for first video its really great. one issue is how quiet it is but for now you have new subscriber since your voice is great to listen to keep it up
I liked Marvel when it first started with Ironman. I didn't like how they made Captain America more of a pretty boy, but it was entertaining while it all lasted. Guardians, Strange, and Spiderman are all I would be interested in at this point.
To quote James Hetfield:There is nothing more for me. And in the end it set me free. Seriously,letting go of not just the MCU but live action Superhero films felt very refreshing.
Unfortunately "Endings" don't exist anymore & it's probably the main reason why storytelling as a whole feels bland & passionless these days because no one has a real story to tell anymore. It's just "This is popular so let's milk it till it's dead"
I do agree that I was Really Disappointed that they were bringing back Hugh Jackman and the old X-Men . I want a new Wolverine . I want an actual X-Men movie to do as tge comics did . We should have had a Fantastic Four by now . There's been no follow up to Etetnals . Nova hasn't been introduced . I do believe the Marvels will be good and may introduce Nova , Qusar and other great cosmic heroes . I think they could do an actual banger of an Alpha Flight movie to introduce Wolverine and further the Weapons Plus/X program . Im still waiting .
We need a dark Marvel multi-verse series of films/shows Spiderman Noir, Punisher, Dare Devil, Blade, Ghost Rider and so on. Comic heroes for adults, gritty yet stylistic stories with realism at the forefront. Make cinematic dramas out of these darker characters. The Punisher movies were epic, give us more of that and *no more* meta humour for god's sake! 🙏 Case in point: Joker 2019 was revolutionary, Marvel needs to do this for King pin. Give us a whole new universe of films that are completely separate from the MCU.
If I cast aside all multiverse related stuff in terms of my hype for the mcu, The only 3 MCU characters I'm invested in is Wanda, Spider-Man and Doctor Strange.
Fantastic first video! Honestly, people can point to tons of problems for the MCU from oversaturation, quality drops, non-cohesion, etc, it's all the same repeating arguments online. The MCU train's gonna keep going but not necessarily its fans will too. Honestly it's just a matter of what point do you wanna jump off, for me that was Dr. Strange 2. The movie broke my illusion of the MCU grandeur, I thought it could be a film to reel in the multiverse saga but it only made the problems worse. You could swap this video topic out for Star Wars or any big budget tentpole mega series and the argument stands the same. I'm still somewhat interested in Loki S2 as it is the only property that seems to be moving things forward so I might return to it but I'll probably wait until after reviews and consensus drops as I'm still very cautious (I'm in the same boat with Ashoka for Star Wars). Deadpool 3 though is a must watch. It's really its own thing and only tied to the MCU because of branding/rights. Everything else is a hard pass.
they'll have to rebuild the hype behind the MCU, basically start from the ground up once again (keeping the story that had been said up until this point), they'll have to regain the trust of those who they let down
I think you hit the nail on the head. The MCU is focusing on building more characters since so many were "retired" after endgame that none of the movies or shows have any cohesion amongst themselves. Characters from new shows/movies aren't mentioned beyond their own media. They will be, eventually, but they seriously pumped out too much too quickly. Some Movies/shows can be omitted completely and they won't do anything to the greater story. Eternals, She-hulk, Shang-chi, Hawk-eye, and Black Widow can be taken away and nothing will change. They literally just exist to introduce, which can work in moderation, but not at the frequency that the MCU has currently done.
I remember when i used to be very expectant of MCU movies, whenever they came out digitally, i usually be the first to watch them, but now, i don't even care at all, except the few like spiderman, Deadpool and maybe X-Men and daredevil. But even with those I'm kinda scared that they'd fuck em up and I'd loose interest completely. The MCU was a huge chunk of my childhood. Seeing it fail this way is very depressing. But it is what it is i guess
I’ve been feeling this way for a long time. I’ve enjoyed some things in Phase 4. NWH, Doctor Strange, WandaVision, Loki, Hawkeye. I even liked Ms. Marvel. But after Quantumania and Secret Invasion (it took me forever to watch the final episode), I’m just not excited any more. I can’t keep doing this. I’m the biggest comic book movie fan in my friend group, and it’s just exhausting. I’ll watch Loki, Deadpool 3, and Daredevil: Born Again because I’m excited for those. But I’m not even excited for Blade any more because of all the drama and pushing back, let alone anything else. Like Cap said in Endgame, “You gotta move on.” And I never thought I would feel this way… but you gotta move on.
For me She-Hulk was the last straw, up until that point I was one of the people who defended Phase 4 and the MCU in general, but after that show it all changed, I just couldn't understand how the same studio that gave us The Winter Soldier could've watched such trash and said: "yep, release that, it's going to turn out so well for us👍".
I feel you. I held onto hope a little after She-Hulk, because even though I didn't enjoy it, I figured at least I could see what they were TRYING to do with that series, and accepted that maybe it was just meant for a niche crowd who are into that 2 Broke Girls-type of show (which isn't me), and I know people in real life who enjoyed it, so I thought I'd let it slide as just being "not for me". I did enjoy Wakanda Forever which I think came after it, but everything beyond that has been pretty bad (minus Guardians 3 of course).
@@FrameDevice Ironically, I do enjoy Two Broke Girls to an extent, but that show and the audience knows what it's trying to be and is consistent, She-Hulk, like Secret Invasion, fails at everything it tries to be, it fails at being funny, it fails at being a lawyer show (the writers themselves said they didn't know how to write court room scenes) and it fails at being a super-hero show, also what makes it more hard to watch is the connection to the Marvel universe and it's characters, like the part when she completely disrespects Bruce and his experiences and the fact that every single character it introduces (Titania, The Wrecking Crew, Intelligencia, Skaar) are worse than a parody of what they really are. It just feels like Marvel Studios doesn't care anymore, I mean, the finale of the show makes it feel like they didn't even care about their own show. I think that twerking scene is the lowest this universe can go
@@cahe6161 Yeah, I don't disagree with you. It was a pretty bad show. There were moments where I could see a flicker of what it was trying to be, and if they had put more effort into it and been successful, then maybe I wouldn't think so negatively of it, but yeah, to me it's a low point for Marvel. Maybe worse than Secret Invasion or Ant-Man 3, but I'll be honest, I think they're all equally bad in very different ways.
@@FrameDevice why do you say "niche crowd who are into that 2Broke Girls-type show"? Two Broke Girls was a successful show that ran for 6 seasons and about 6 years. I think you're mistaking "different demographic" for "niche". Similarly, people like you may have hated she-hulk, but looking at Nielsen reports of "minutes watched" for each episodes of every marvel show, and adjusting for differences in episode length, She-Hulk comes out with the 3rd highest median viewership per episode, after Wanda Vision, and with Loki at number 1. Plenty of people enjoyed this show. I certainly did.
@@hypercortical7772 To be clear, I don't mean "niche" as in "small audience," I mean "niche" as in "certain audience." Like, there's a certain audience who would be into a show like 2 Broke Girls, and an audience that would be into a show like One Piece, etc. Different strokes for different folks.
I think post Infinity War and Endgame was the golden opportunity for the studio to start doing more complex villains and telling more mature stories where the heroes would lose every now and then, but the studio instead chose to double down on the comedy instead.
I think they looked at Joss Whedons style of humor from Avengers and decided to apply to almost every project since then. I'm so sick of quippy dialogue and constant jokes in the MCU
@@Ghostykitten I agree. I guess the studio is trying to play it safe by sticking with what is familiar (jokes and what not) but honestly I can't be sure because Infinity War being serious made a huge difference and the numbers prove that people loved the change in direction.
I used to ask myself how they were ever going to top Thanos, but you bring up a good point. Just simply sticking to a similarly mature and complex style of storytelling would have been enough. It would have been interesting, even if it didn't top Thanos, it would've challenged the heroes on screen and audiences all the same, unlike this new shit.
@@adam3647 Precisely. I'm not sure what the studio is aiming for anymore. It might be the case that everyone involved right now is just too tired to make anything interesting anymore.
It's strange... It seems like the majority of people loved Ragnarok because it was all quirky and funny. After Love & Thunder, I went back and watched it again for the first time in a few years and it really doesn't hold up. Thor is a completely different character than what we were presented with previously. The double plot smooshed together doesn't work pacing wise (planet Hulk and Ragnarok). The jokes juvenile. It's like Tiki took all the worst traits of the MCU and dialed up to 11. It seemed fresh then, a zany over the top movie, but with the benefit of hindsight and what the MCU has become, I don't think it holds up at all.
Great 1st video man. TH-cam has sort of subconsciously trained me to ignore videos from smaller creators but Im glad I took the gamble with this. Editing is usually something that takes channels a while to get good at or master but the editing here is better and more in sync than 90% of bigger MCU creators making these types of videos.
Keep up the hard work. It will surely pay off. 6.6k views is a rarity for a 1st video but it just speaks to the quality here
Facts
Wait this is his 1st video? Couldn’t even tell this is really well made!
I agree, if you hadn't said this was your first video, I would have thought you were well experienced in the genre. Well done 👏
Interesting you say that YT has conditioned you in this way. Can you expand on that thought?
@@SarcasticPlotRecaps I'd love to hear them explain this too, lol
I remember seeing Thor’s hammer at the end of Iron man 2. I was excited cause I knew Thor was coming. None comic people would ask what it means and we were all excited for the next film. Now I have to wonder where’s Vision, Clea, Skaar, Starfox or Hercules? No one asks me who they are, because no one expects to see any of them again. Where’s Shang Chi?
Lmao phase 4 in a nutshell
I remember people asking me who the purple guy was and the real buzz at the time.
😐
For me, the issues really boil down to a lack of coherent through-line. I watched a video recently where the essayist listed out the number of character appearances over the course of each phase, and post-EG has exactly none of that. I need a character or three to hold onto, to follow their reactions and stories as the world spins around them. Tony, Steve and Thor held the world together.
Dr strange is arguably filling one of those slots, but there isnt any coherent built up for a team. Spiderman is his own thing now, Hulk could ve been the " guy in the chair " maybe, what is Anr Man doing now, Strange is with Clea God knows where and he s never brought up again, Sam needs a movie but it looks like his movie will be bloated, Shang Chi should ve had a sequel announced long ago.
@@tonileo9849 Can you imagine if they'd found a reasonable way to tie the more established heroes into the new heroes movies? Shang-Chi is the only one that felt like it was part of the larger whole with Wong's cameo, even if it was kinda silly.
@@MsIvalane yeah, if we take a look at the shows and movies, since phase 1 started, the only multiverse things are WandaVision, Loki, NWH, and MoM. Dr Strange appears in 2 of those, him and Wong should ve been a constant but in NWH he really made weird choices and in MOM he felt like 2nd fiddle and Wong besides the silly Shsng Chi and SheHulk cameos there s nothing for him
I think much of that comes down to leadership's arrogance. The first 3 phases were actually fairly flexible. They weren't planned out that much, they threw a bunch of stuff against the wall and saw what stuck and what didn't. And they capitalized on the things that worked. And the subsequent through-line you described was all based on audience reactions to what worked. They had no idea what they wanted to do with Thanos when he made his appearance in both The Avengers or the first Guardians movie. And years later, they finally fleshed that out by spending the rest of the phases just following up on characters and character drama that resonated with audiences.
By the end of phase 3, though, that started to change. Marketing seemed to highlight that they put a lot of eggs into just very few baskets. With Captain Marvel, they decided for the audience that she would be the next central character. And while her movie did well, it was in spite of the character and not because of. And with the success of Phases 1-3, they thought that they could bombard us with content again, without working up to it, despite lacking the sort of narrative foundation that phases 1 and 2 offered. Lots of content is fine: it worked out well for phase 3. But it has to be earned. When your grand multi movie narrative has to restart again from scratch, it needs a solid foundation.
Strangely, the MCU in Phase 4 is pretty much where DC was during Phases 1-3: scrambling to catch up to where Marvel was during Phase 3, and planning an unproven set of films and characters out far in advance.
@@seaofseeof earned is the right word. I forgot about Thanos being aimless, even Joss Whedon said he didnt know what to do with him, and Marvel gave the films to the Russo bros, for thr better. Marvel also had problems with Ike Pearlmutter until Feige stood up so that was a problem even when, looking back, the MCU seemed organized.
Now if we break it down, Phase 1 was pretty straightforward: build up towards the Avengers, with each member getting a film, except Clint and Nat but they got small parts still.
Phase 2, in hindsight, seems to be the most "random" if you will but it makes sense now looking back. It continues the story of the Avengers after New York: Tony gets PTSD which will carry over to AoU, Steve becomes more disillusioned with the present day, Thor....well...is there in Dark World but we all know Ragnarok was his moment ( although his vision in AoU makes now looking back). Then we have new players in Guardians 1 opening the cosmic side of the MCU, then we have Age of Ultron, a movie that aged pretty well i think, being the first and last time the original 6 worked as a team from start to finish, the film also finally gave Clint some depth, it continued Tony's paranoia over another invasion, it continued Steve's resentment towards not having a "home" to go to( the wood chopping scene), AoU will have rammifications for phase 3 as well which leads to Civil War.
You get the point i think, Marvel just needs a very good plan right now and take a step back and think.
Moviegoers, particularly younger ones ranging from late millenials to middle zoomers, tend to forget that genre films generally have a shelf life. We saw it with the Western in the 60's, the cop movie in the 70's, the action flick in the 80's, the teen comedy in the 90's, and now tge capeshit from the oughts to now. When the dust clears, nobody can say that the superhero movie didn't have a good run. And frankly I'm ready to see it go: for all the reasons you listed and more, Im actively and excitedly OVER the half-dozen cultural zeitgeist moments that Disney and Warner just expect me to shlurp up every year.
I agree, although I think the 2000's was more the era of fantasy movies and the 2010's was superhero territory. Honestly, I feel like the 2020's will end up being the age of horror films.
For this to work you have to say that superhero is a genre, and I disagree with that sentiment.
@@RunicRazili
Okay :^)
I wish I could recall which video essay I saw months ago that said something similar, but they also noted how the movie musical from the 50s-60s ended up dying out too. People we fatigued then as well.
Trends change and the MCU never accounted for that. They have also never planned an appropriate end to this way too long franchise. You can keep going on forever as seen with comic books and even animated media, but with movies and TV shows (even soap operas) you have to get to an end eventually. The best shows, movies, and series usually (try to) go out with a dignified bang rather than a geriatric on life support clinging to life. The money train and story lines must end, otherwise the subject ends up “overstaying their welcome”. It’s something a lot of these big studios (Marvel/Disney, Warner, Sony, etc) refuse to acknowledge even though they know they damn well should.
And zombies, vampires, pirates, twilight/hungermovies, disaster movies etc..
There's always a "zeitgeist" genre of movies for every time period.
Yeah this is heartbreaking for me. I grew up with the MCU and a lot of my fondest memories of my childhood is just my and my brother or friends watching these movies and having a good time with them. To see what it has become is heartbreaking.
By the way, this was really good for your first video man! I am really looking forward to seeing your other videos if they are of high quality like this one!
Glad that was blade for me and when the mcu went to shit i thought nothing of it other than the trend of heroes is dying out like any other trend dies
Shehulk is what truly broke the camels back for from going from cautious to noticing what happened to the mcu and yet I still watch with hope I just find it so sad watching movies I once loved killing themselves slowly
Jesus Christ, I went to go to sleep and I woke up with the video at over 10,000 views!!! This is incredible!! I never expected my first video would do this well this quickly, or have almost 200 subscribers! Thank you to everyone who watched! This is amazing!
As an update, I am currently making the second Quick Talks video, and I will be uploading a 2-minute preview of my first properly researched video essay on my Patreon (patreon.com/FrameDevice) later today. It'll be under my Tier 1 sub. It'll probably be a little while until that video is completed, but until then, I will be aiming to put out regular Quick Talks videos, including a 1-2 minute preview of the upcoming one for Tier 2 Patreon subscribers coming within the week.
Well we all really like the video, so well deserved lol
It was straight up, suggested to me early on in my feed from another video. So it looks like you hit an algorithm, sweet spot or snowballed.
Bro WOKE up...
Forgot to pin this thread, if you don't pin it only you will see it as the first comment in the video, it appears in a random place for the rest of us.
@@Gengh13 I can only pin one comment at a time.
This was a relly good video man, congrats.
And I agree, a 100%. I was 10yo in 2008 when IronMan came out and it was outstanding to me to imagine movies being connected after that post credit scene with Nick Fury, heck, I remember doing my whole research on who he was, started reading comicbooks, seeking more and more and seeing the little hints for other characters like Cap's shield in IronMan 2. Certainly felt a lot of emotions when Thanos appeared at the end of Avengers and smiled at the idea of "courting death".
Now the MCU feels like something that was great, but everything that made it great is long gone. If it always was a highly produced, corporate milking cow, it didn't feel as such, but now it just feels like that. No care, no love, no emotion: just greed and lack of appreciation for what it once was.
Yep. The pain is real.
I think the biggest problem is that the MCU doesn’t reward people who are invested in specific characters anymore.
If you were a fan of Iron Man or Captain America exclusively, the Infinity Saga gave you 7-8 movies over 8-11 years. There was a film with your favorite character in it almost every year.
Even if you were a fan of Hawkeye, you got 5 movies where he made an appearance. With again, at most two years between appearances.
If you're a fan of Shang Chi? You get one movie. Supposedly he's going to have more appearances in the future, but it's already been 2 years and the projects he's supposed to appear in are another 2 years away. There was no momentum built like there was for OG Avengers characters.
And the characters that have made multiple appearances often lack character continuity. Wanda feels like a completely different person in MOM. Scott and Cassie's relationship, the heart of the first two Ant-Man films, is degraded and sidelined. It's almost like fans are now punished for actually caring about characters and their relationships.
Nobody cares about Chi to begin with tho, that's the problem
I don't even wait for the post credit scenes anymore, I'm just like "Someone probably posted it on youtube I'll watch there"
Going Multiverse ironically means that the stakes are gone, not higher. Anyone that dies can always come back in a parallel version played by the next hot young thing. Case in point: 2 versions of Kang has already been killed. Nothing happened.
Multiversal wouldn't kill the stakes if we cared anything about the main universe.
Or if they could make up there mind if multiverse meant time travel, or vaguely related worlds that have seemingly arbitrary differences between them.
Once something becomes successful, there's a ticking clock until money and greed ruin it. Honestly, Marvel lasted a lot longer than I expected.
Yeah it’s lasted really long to the point it has overstayed its welcome, at least over here
My biggest issue with she hulk was the way she refers to heroes as narcissists etc. but then goes on to have her show every common trait but not show her getting over that
I think it's time for the MCU to sit back and relax, and bring back the stand alone heroes
Here's my best advice to you since I'm also a classic MCU fan... step away and just wait a while. The storm will pass and Marvel will find itself again. For now, just consider Avengers Endgame as the true ending and ignore everything that came after. It's what I did was I was able to make peace with it. It saved me so much stress and helped me make peace with it. Like Jay Sherman said "If we stop watching bad movies, they'll stop making bad movies."
That's good advice thank you
If you haven't bothered to watch no way home, or GOTG 3, you're shooting yourself in the foot.
@@LastBastianno way home is really necessary for Spiderman fans!
The sad tone of GOTG3 pushed me away from it, haven't watched it yet and idk if I will as I like Rocket too much to watch him suffer
@@andremalerba5281 You're missing out. GOTG3 is amazing.
Dr. Strange was the end point for me. I had a feeling the ride was over after Endgame but Spider-Man gave me hope that maybe it'll be worth another go. Sadly after walking out of MoM I knew it was over and I can accept
GOTG 3 was beautiful. I've been disillusioned with the rest of Marvel, but I'm looking forward to seeing more of James Gunn's work in DC. His character-driven stories really hammer your heart.
As someone who grew up with the mcu and was full on sobbing after the end of endgame. I feel heartbroken for the state it is in. It was such a big part of my life growing up, to the point that I had made friends I wouldn't otherwise have because of this franchise.
Alot of my disappointment for phase 4 comes from Wandavision and Loki. They were just so good, too good. Wandavision started off phase 4 with a bang. Incredible writing, anticipation every week, and a plot that made sense. It was a silly sitcom show with horrific undertones beneath it that crept up on the viewers at random moments reminding the audience that there is a darker reality hiding beneath all the costumes and vibrant colors. It’s post credit scene left us with anticipation, with Wanda reading the Darkhold and the foreshadowing of her downfall into villainy and the repercussions that could have on the MCU as a whole. Loki came right after and gave us Kang, with the finale of Loki leaving us on a cliffhanger that changed the MCU entirely. Again, a show with amazing writing and a plot that made sense. And it foreshadowed a larger MCU conflict. Everyone expected the things set up in these two shows to culminate in one giant event with Dr Strange Multiverse of Madness that would break open the multiverse and it’s possibilities and reveal the true face of conflict for the next two phases. instead it was short, rushed, and gave us no answers.
I forgave Wandavision for the bohner joke hoping they'd rectify that mistake in multiverse but nope. I also was hoping that multiverse would confirm that doctor srange was not responsible for the multiverse incident in No way home and was really the responsibility of lady Loki when she killed he who remains but NOPE. I also hoped the cameos would matter more and that there would be more multiverse stuff happening but NOPE, Marvel just had to choose the least creative way to tackle this movie. I want whoever was behind that movie to get fired from marvel for lacking a creative brain.
@@zogwort1522 i don’t think they’re the best productions from marvel ever of course, but i do think they’re the best phase 4 had to offer. And because phase 4 started out with them, it gave everyone false hope at to what phase 4 would turn out to be, that is, multiverse scale characters cause multiverse scale repercussions that would last until phase 6. Wandavision had the Disney+ website crashing every friday. Everyone had their theories and it was just a fun time. I just feel like there was a level of hype and enthusiasm during the Wandavision and Loki era that we never saw again
WandaVision had me excited... but it was obvious about half way through that the showrunners/writers had never actually read a comic book.
When the fan theories are significantly better than the actual show... it is a failure of the writing
@eduardomurua6919 I originally bought into the concept of Agents of Shield... Remember when the tag-line was, "its all connected."? I've always wanted an integrated universe for TV and movies. AoS was a true disappointment... that I hoped they learned from WV was supposed to open the door to a "new" integrated universe.
And while Disney and the show runners blame covid for the reduced episode count. . I truly doubt they were going to follow through with anything good. The story was crap... they teaeed more in the intro than they managed to deliver.
Hard disagree. Wandavision was exciting and had huge potential, but it wasted it. The promising leads went nowhere and Wanda herself was character assasinated. Writers of the series tried to write a story about Wanda's sympathetic and tragic decline into anti-villain territory, but Wanda's actions were so extreme the effort fell flat on its face. It ended up being a story that can only be summarized as "with great power comes no responsibility". As for Loki, it did an irreparable damage to the core mechanics of MCU and character assasinated Hiddleston's Loki himself. His transformation over watching a movie is utterly unbelievable. The person he turns into is pathetic.
Taika Waititi turning Thor in to a comedian was the start of the slide for me. I was expecting Gorr to be a truly epic villain and they turned him into the child snatcher. Disney + spamming out tv shows is also diluting what was special. They’ve done a ‘Star Wars’ basically. It’s all Disney
My suggestion:
The MCU should use Kang and time travel as an excuse to go back, re-shoot scenes & seriously fix the worst of this stage...especially Secret Invasion. With everything always available on Dis+ there's a real chance to do something groundbreaking in re-edits.
No
My suggestion is that the MCU should end. I’m so tired of comic book movies and multiverses jfc
But to respond to your actual post, do you mean like bonus content for Disney plus? Or retconning things that didn’t work in the theatrical release and reimagining those things for the D+ uploads?
Deep down I don't think people are hating on the MCU but instead they are against Disney. For years disbey ignored fans and now those fans are saying I told you so.
You couldn't have said it any better. Especially with that back to back damage of Antman & The Wasp Quantumania and Secret Invasion..I gave up trying to defend something I eventually would have to give in to telling the truth about. Hopefully they dig themselves out of their hole.
I don't understand how so many people put Loki up with No Way Home and recently GOTG3 as the best of phase 4. Yeah, it was a fun watch but they basically assassinated the character of Loki, made everything meaningless by establishing there is no free will in the MCU and made time travel/ the multiverse aspect of it so fucking complicated and contradictory.
This is an incredibly great first video, like I never think about subscribing after 1 video especially when its just basic video essay content but this is doing it for me Im 3xcited to see what u do next, also u kinda sound like abed which us just super funny
For me the issues began in endgame. Time travel was a mistake in an MCU that used to be known for incredibly well written continuity
Quantumania, lost the weekend to a 35M film of about a Bear cranked out on cocaine. Barbie made 1 billion dollars while all the Disney WB tentpoles crashed and burned.
For your first video this was fantastic, great job man. Definitely subscribing and looking to forward to whatever you put out next
Thanks. Much appreciated!
They could cut half their projects and put the extra work into writing and effects. The lack of continuity and quality gets increasingly frustrating.
11:57 is almost identical to the teacher/villain of sharkboy and lavagirl. Seriously, look at the scene of sharkboy and lavagirls climax, its hilariously similar!
What makes the MCU didn't start 15 years ago as it started with marvel comics in the 1960s I think it was. As what it feels like we're seeing is the death of the marvel universe as a brand.
Lately I’ve been finding myself missing mid-late 2000s superhero movies - I’m really, really starting to miss more self-contained stuff like the Raimi Spider-Man movies or the Dark Knight where there’s no big world shaking events happening elsewhere in in the world, it’s just this one guy. I miss how simple that felt.
I agree but Sam Wilson IS a legacy character from the infinity saga, he just has a different tile now. I think people forget that, he's not a completely different character and I personally love his character. There's definitely a lot more they can do with him, but I definitely would NOT compare him to She Hulk or Ms Marvel.
I kinda wish they'd just ended the MCU with Endgame, and maybe a few extra movies like Black Widow and the Spiderman ones. That was the perfect send off for the series, but noooo they just have to milk it for all its worth.
Marvel's biggest problem is failing to know when to end the story. It's why a lot of people struggle with mainstream comics. A story can't go on forever, and all Disney cares about is milking a franchise until there was nothing left. If the studio would have taken off for 5 years after Endgame and reintroduced us to the world with a time skip, people would have been much more willing to jump on with this next phase of the mcu. But we all know the only thing the studio cares about is raking in more cash with the few remaining scraps of stories and recognizable characters they have left.
People are celebrating the fall of Marvel, Star Wars and Disney because of the way that directors, actors, and management have openly discussed their lack of respect of the source material or the fans themselves - then when the movie bombs they call anyone who did not like it [insert noun]-ists.
It's never about quantity. It's always about quality.
Anyone that follows sports understands a “rebuilding season”.
All “End of Saga” events will be devastating, requiring a “Rebuilding Phase” immediately after. This happened after “Endgame”, will happen after “Secret Wars”, and will happen again after the end of the “Mutant Saga”.
This, too, shall pass.
I feel like after End game, Disney should have taken a good 2-3 year break to REALLY draw out and plan a proper phase 4, 5, and even 6 roadmap. All the junk we're getting right now is the result of aimless writing, devoid of all creativity that the studio was once known for. Art takes time and had they given their writers, animators and directors the time to properly plan and create, we wouldn't have these creatively bankrupt titles dropping! There are hundreds of deeply interesting comics for the MCU to adapt into film, but they're so obsessed with pumping out content, regardless of quality, that now their reputation is being damaged irreparably!
I agree with everything you said. I also feel like we're still stuck in the aftermath of Infinity War and Endgame. The snap is still being talked about in about every project, and it's honestly getting old. I get it, half the population got wiped away, but those movies were 4-5 years ago, it's time we moved on.
I am in a very similar boat to you, but I think it’s done. I don’t know how they can save things other than retconning almost the entirety of phase 4. With the abuses behind the screen I am okay with letting it die and finding new things that deserve our attention.
there’s nothing that needs to be saved😭
A reboot after Secret Wars seems like the only option
FLASH was so bad it makes me wonder how bad that Batgirl film the cancelled and shelved is.
To me, the MCU has become the classic, tragic counter-example to 'quit while you're ahead'. For a few years, it was untouchable - absolutely untouchable. One of the best runs of movies ever. Critics loved them, fans loved them, everyone loved them. They really were that good.
If they'd quit then, or even a few years later, the MCU would have been as emblematic of its era as the 'Star Wars' or 'Ghostbusters' films were of the '80's. There'd be retrospectives and fan conventions and spin-off novels, keeping the love alive. But by now, it's the 'Simpsons' instead - something that wearily drags on, year after year, largely only sustained by the sheer force of its celebrity. I take no pleasure in its downfall - I'm just tired, and want it to end so I can actually start looking forward to this sort of movie again.
WB/DC is DOING FAR WORSE, Flash was the biggest super hero film flop in history, did worse than Green Lantern or catwoman. Blue Beetle was released DOA in theatres I never heard any news they were making a film of what is a C List Character.
I hate how disney treated the entire phase 4 lke every single character was in a vacation roadtrip and kang and the multiverse shit was just a bad habit from an annoying neighbor next-door.
Great movie and well thought out points. Miss the days when MCU movies were events that everyone looked forward to, but thankful to have lived through it. It was a fun time.
I wish I could just ask the mindset of the writers behind phase 4
I also feel like a lot of people feel overwhelmed by thr ammount of projects that have come out. It used to feel so special when a movie csme out. I remember seeing Captain America: The Winter Soldier five times in theater. I used to be the type of fan who would go see every film in theater and itd be an event for me and my friends. I used to know all of the lore too and could expain how everything was connected. Now I couldn't tell you how anything is connected and I haven't bothered to watch the latest stuff like Antman or Secret Invasion. The only Marvel shows I really enjoyed was Moonknight and Loki. Its truly superhero fatigue. It sucks to be an MCU fan rn. I'd rather rewatch Captain America the First Avenger for thr 20th time then watch any new projects.
Secret Invasion might have better if they included at least a couple of Avengers in it, like the new Captain America. People were expecting Avengers in it like in the comic book story. Instead it was Fury vs the skrulls, and his one ally skrull played by Amelia Clark.
This video came out a bit later than expected. I had originally planned to have it uploaded a week-and-a-half ago, but later is better than never. Still getting into the swing of things. This will be the first of a series of videos on my channel called Quick Talks, where I make short, informal videos about the goings-on in the entertainment industry and pop culture. Expect more regular uploads from here on out. Sneak peaks at future content will be uploaded to my Patreon (patreon.com/FrameDevice) for Tier 1 subs. I am still hard at work on the main video essays, and I will endeavor to have a sneak peak at the first video prepared in the coming weeks for Tier 2 subs. Let me know what video ideas I should talk about next!
EDIT: Holy crap, I didn't expect to hit 1K views in only three days! Thanks a lot! Looking forward to putting out more content soon!
Someone on here (i wish i could remember who) has a great video on how the MCU can't keep its own concepts straight with regards to 'multiverse'. Is it time lines? is it parallel universes? Is it alternative realities?
The explanations in end game, loki and MoM are all different
I’ve enjoyed phase 4 so far still.
I'm still convinced Secret Wars should be more like in the 2040s because most need more time to improve, have sequels period, and just connect more.
All the actors will be old.
2040 is too far maybe 1 phase to make part 2s of everything but still in infinity saga there were like 20 heroes in the entire franchise now we have like 50 they did a mistake by introducing a lot of characters
I really do hope the MCU can pull itself together. It has put out a lot of cool movies with many beloved characters and, it would be a shame if it all just ended like this.
no it can't pull itself together again. think of who will be the future avengers.. there you go lol
I thought The Eat my hammer line was actually fitting of a scientist getting superpowers and trying to figure out a cool catchphrase.
That might be the last time I ever defend Love and Thunder
For me, Doctor Strange 2 was the last straw. When that movie was announced sometime after endgame, I was so excited for it! The visuals, the music, Benedict Cumberbatch as Doctor Strange. I had this theory at the time that Doctor Strange would replace Tony as the face of the MCU moving forward because they are both so similar to each other. Plus, I also had the theory that Strange would be the new father figure to Peter and WE DID GET THAT...until, you know...the ending...
When each released MCU movie got worse overtime while also learning that MOM had very extensive reshoots, I immediately knew something was wrong, and when the day came when that film was out. Doctor Strange wasn't even the main character of his own damn movie! He doesn't even go through an arc and even Cumberbatch in a podcast alluded to the fact that this didn't feel like his movie. Scott Derrickson did Doctor Strange justice and I wished we got that horror movie he had envisioned because I bet anything that the visuals in that film would have been so fucking wild.
I felt completely robbed, and now with the rumor that Doctor Strange is not even being considered as one of the leaders for the Avengers. I will potentially have to wait until the team up movies, or 2028 and beyond to see Doctor Strange 3 if that happens. That's way too damn long! Especially when the sequel was sloppily written and not up to par with the original in any way. It's really saying something when Spider-Man No Way Home was a better Doctor Strange movie than Doctor Strange 2. Like I said, it would have help if, you know, you centered the damn movie around the character it's based on! Shit, man...
Ok, rant over, uuuughh...
MCU isnt just bad, its aggressively and stubbornly bad. I think people have a right to be mad at it. They didnt just drop the ball. Like Star Wars, they smugly alienated and ostracized their fans. Geek culture became cool, then forgot where it came from and didnt want to hang out with the people who put them there any more. Now they’re not the hot new thing any more, and the people whose money they took for granted have moved on.
To me, when will this MSheU excuses end? We want the MCU as men and women are both strong, better and equal that we know back!
I genuinely believe Disney plus has killed not just the MCU but Disney as whole like most people know all their new films will be on Disney plus within a couple months. Also people struggle to keep up.
13:00 The "Agatha" series has been re-named again to "Darkhold Diaries", the *third* name this series has had and it's *not even on the air yet!* (Actually, they should call it "Agatha: We're Not Really Doing This KTHXBYE"...)
There are hundreds of reasons at this point I can’t say Disney and marvel deserve all the bad vibes they are getting.. from destroying our favorite franchises to doing things like finding ways not to pay creators and not paying residuals.. and hiring these people who don’t even know about the franchise… it takes a lot to tell a fan.. who probably spent thousands of dollars on books merch videos games etc that they cant be mad.. when something you love has been hijacked… they are lucky that people even talk about them at all because the state of these projects are abysmal.. and if you take the star wars or marvel name of of most these projects they wouldnt make it out of the planning phase
"I don't have 5 hours to..."
You said all that with such venom.
I REAALLLLLY hated Secret Invasion. 😄
Honestly, one of the better and more concise essays about this topic. So much of the discourse is either pretentious or weirdly bigoted i.e. 'anti-woke', so I'm glad to see a take I mostly agree with.
we gotta admit it mcu is dying without RDJ, Chris Evans and Scarlett Johannson and if all the heroes introduced get only 1 movie before the major crossover then the next avengers films are confirmed dead and I wouldn't give a damn if any new heroes die expect for all the heroes from infinity saga because there is simply no character development
They did the Infinity saga WAY to early You forgot the GIGANTIC, TITANIC kaiju fight in Egypt that EVERYONE saw... Somehow I think people would have remembered GODZILLA fighting MOTHRA IRL.
Oh yes... Kang, big BAD ASS.. That got his ass kicked BY ANTS. and a FIST FIGHT with ant man!!! A normal human... Wow what a way to drag me in.
The truth is whether it's now or way down the road, the death of the MCU will be ugly, because they're not going to stop for artistic reasons. They'll only stop if/when it's no longer profitable.
Made a lot of good points but I have to disagree on the upcoming slate man. The Disney plus shows coming up are definitely worrying besides Daredevil and Loki S2, but let’s not pretend and act like Deadpool 3, Captain America 4, thunderbolts, and blade aren’t extremely hyped up. I just can’t let you disrespect Sam Wilson like that man, he’s earned the respect and he deserves his film.
I really like your take. It's refreshing to see content that isn't focused on sensationalism and rage baiting, which is unfortunately quite common these days. Please continue creating this type of content.
Great video, especially considering it’s your first! Glad I found your channel! Good luck and keep up the good work.
This resonates so much with me, great video.
Overall a great first episode. Keep it up! However, I think you're forgetting how antagonistic the writers, directors, and actors have been to the fandom. Calling them racists and basement dwellers as a way to shield themselves from any criticism. When you keep that in mind, the hate is absolutely justified.
Part of the blame also lies on Marvel/Disney marketing department. I remember the character Iron Heart having mixed reactions when the trailers and media started calling her the next Tony Stark of the MCU but in the actual movie she is nothing like that and there is not any dialogue from Riri Williams comparing herself to Tony. In fact in the movie, she has more common with MCU Spider-Man than Iron Man.
I also think that kid from Iron Man 3 (forgot his name) should be the next Iron Man - Iron Lad. It's kinda strange that he appeared only in one movie and on the Stark's funeral and that's it. Would like to see him in the future.
@@seregagerassimov4864 yeah that would be cool
@@seregagerassimov4864 Iron Lad is a teen version of Kang from the future. He doesn't have anything to do with IM or IH. That kid from IM 3 is an OC.
I was finished with the MCU the moment I realized they were going to adapt 2015's Marvel Now line.
You're half right. The term isn't franchise fatigue, it's bad movie fatigue. Also the sound wasn't that loud and I had my phone at full volume
Great video, a nice point of view on the whole debacle surrounding the MCU. The only thing I disagree with is the part regarding all the creators who are ridiculing Disney at the moment: I don't think it's malice or clickbait (maybe that's a little bit yes) but I'm convinced the hatred comes precisely from those who loved this world and most of all feels mocked by the direction taken by Disney. I see it more as a way to make the higher ups understand that it's time to change course and quickly but, as you say, it could really be too late
It's a mixture. I'm not saying everyone with a negative take on the MCU is dishonest or malicious, but those types of actors definitely are a big part of that trend. There's also a lot of creators who simply never liked the MCU or, like me, loved it once and fell out of love with what it started to become. But the MCU has long been a target for right-wing channels and grifters, so you're also gonna find a lot of those on the platform as well.
@@FrameDeviceunfortunately I knew you were gonna make it political as soon as I heard your critique, just because some of the creators you highlighted are on the other end of the political spectrum doesn't mean they are wrong, and they correctly recognized the direction the MCU was going before you and pointed it out.
Maybe we highlight the same glaring examples those channels used in their videos because we agree and those are the simplest examples of a deeper problem with the writing and direction(or lack thereof) of the entire current MCU.
@@Gengh13 I don't know the political leanings of the channels I searched for. I just searched for negative reviews of the MCU to grab screenshots. If all of those channels are right-wing, maybe that says something about the type of people who typically complain about the MCU on TH-cam than it does about my own political leanings.
15:18 Guy, what are you talking about? Shang-Chi received positive reviews as did Ms. Marvel, Moon Knight, and even Falcon and the Winter Solider. The problem that I have with MCU fans is a refusal to evolve with the franchise that they claim to love so much. They think because they don't care about Shang-Chi or Ms. Marvel that no one cares about these characters, which simply isn't case. MCU "fans" need to move on from legacy characters and if they can't do that then it maybe it's best for them to STOP watching.
I didn't say the movie didn't receive positive reviews, just that the character has only gotten (based on what I can see) a lukewarm-to-generally-positive reception from audiences. I'm not saying people don't like him, but I don't think he's at the level of enthusiasm as a character like Tony Stark or Steve Rogers. At least, not yet. But I loved the movie personally. It was one of my favorite movies of Phase 4. And I liked Simu Liu's performance.
@@FrameDevice Shang-Chi received an A audience rating, so what lukewarm reception from audience are you referring to?
@@realityshifter3399 So, the thing is, those kinds of rating systems don't really mean that much to me. Unless I know the methodology behind who voted on those polls, how many voters there were, and what sort of biases they might have, then I don't know how representative of a sample they are of the general population's position. Second, unless they distinguish between "liking" a character and "loving" them, then I don't see how helpful it is. If a majority of people said they "liked" Shang-Chi rather than "didn't like" him, then all that tells me is that most people generally don't dislike him, but it doesn't tell me the level of enthusiasm people have for the character. It's the same problem as with how Rotten Tomatoes works-if 99% of critics give a movie a fresh rating, does that mean that 99% of critics thought the film was amazing? No, it just means that 99% of critics thought the movie didn't suck. And it's the same with those audience ratings.
Look, nothing about this video is meant to shame people who like the MCU, and I feel like I give a good bit of credit to it myself, more than most people online do. If you like Shang-Chi, I'm right there with you, I like him too. But I'm just saying, I'm not convinced that he's as popular as most of the mainstays from earlier phases, which does make a difference.
@@FrameDevice If the average critical score is between 7-9 out of 10 then yeah, most critics think the film is amazing or at least good.
Shang-Chi received the average critical score of a 7.5 out of 10 which is an above average score. So, yeah I would say that the character is popular.
@@realityshifter3399 Yeah, okay, fine. I'm not interested in splitting hairs over this. Suffice it to say, however popular Shang-Chi is as a character, he's certainly nowhere near as popular as Iron Man or Captain America were (unless you care to argue that he is, in which case I'm afraid we'll simply have to agree to disagree), and yet right now he seems to be one of the most popular of the post-Endgame roster, which is a lower bar than what the first three phases have established.
I can’t believe it is crumbling right before we FINALLY get the Xmen. :(
I completely agree with everything you said. I've never read the comics, but I fell in love with the MCU years ago. Seeing it disgrace and bury itself in dirt is surely disappointing and heartbreaking.
Oh, and also, if you hadn't told us that this is your first video, I wouldn't have known! You did a fantastic job in every regard! Keep it up!
this is what i would describe as a neat little video I found the other day
Let’s objectively review phase 4!
Here we go:
Black Widow - If this had come out around the same time as Iron Man 3 like it was supposed to, it probably wouldn’t have ended up as the mean-spirited feminist garbage it is. 3/10
Shang Chi - Boring and irrelevant, 4/10
Eternals - Somehow even more boring and irrelevant, Justice League for Marvel dick riders, 0/10
Spider-Man - The best of the phase 4 films, and by that I mean it’s the least shit. For a Spider-Man fan? It’s a fun nostalgia trip. As a standalone movie? Dogshit. 6/10
Dr. Strange - It’s that time of the month for Scarlet Witch, the movie. 2/10
Thor - CGI Natalie Portman biceps should be proof enough that Disney/Marvel only wants to push agendas with these movies. 0/10
Black Panther - Once again, replace a male actor with a female one and expect people to believe it makes sense. No, little 5’4” 90lbs Mary Sue isn’t going to throw a 6’5” 300lbs trained soldier, no matter how much martial arts training she has. 1/10
WandaVision - I actually really liked the idea for this one, each new episode being a different era of TV, but they completely fumbled the concept for a mini-series to tie into the most bland phase 4 movie. 5/10
Falcon - Political commentary on race issues that happened 6 years before it was released, shoddily pinned on post Endgame events that make the racial argument look like a complete joke. 2/10
Loki - The progenitor of the multiversal apocalypse, kill it with fire. 1/10
What If…? - Who? 0/10
Hawkeye - Why wasn’t this just a “prequel” series telling the Ronin arch? Literally would’ve been the best Marvel show on D+. 2/10
Moon Knight - Despite having a pretty good actor (Poe was the one good part of the sequel trilogy), they somehow made a man who kills people in his sleep boring. 1/10
Ms. Marvel - Who? 0/10
I Am Groot - The “turn beloved characters into babies” thing should’ve been aborted after Baby Nut. 2/10
She-Hulk - Probably the worst show of all time, everyone who worked on it should be blacklisted from the industry. -100/10
And we’ll toss this in as a freebie:
GOTG V3 - Probably the best movie produced by Disney since like 2016, only possible because James Gunn actually knows what the fuck he’s doing. 9.5/10
I completely agree; there are too much diversifications and roads to “nowhere” and that dilutes the quality. With respect; I really do not understand what is the meaning of “Moon Night” or the “She Hulk” in the whole story; the Eternals and the Shang Chi movie seem to be going in another direction from the main story, they made one of my favorite characters, Thor to look like a “big joke” which he is definetely not. On the other hand, there are 4 spidermans existing at the same time (I just hope there will not be more of them - they have compensated that really perfectly in the last spiderman movie). My questions are; What happened to Silver Surfer; where is Galactus?
oh crap for first video its really great.
one issue is how quiet it is but for now you have new subscriber since your voice is great to listen to
keep it up
I liked Marvel when it first started with Ironman. I didn't like how they made Captain America more of a pretty boy, but it was entertaining while it all lasted. Guardians, Strange, and Spiderman are all I would be interested in at this point.
I guess comic fan said the same thing decades ago.
To quote James Hetfield:There is nothing more for me. And in the end it set me free.
Seriously,letting go of not just the MCU but live action Superhero films felt very refreshing.
Unfortunately "Endings" don't exist anymore & it's probably the main reason why storytelling as a whole feels bland & passionless these days because no one has a real story to tell anymore.
It's just "This is popular so let's milk it till it's dead"
Guardians 3 was the only outlier to this. It felt like an actual, genuine ending for the Guardians' story, which was amazingly refreshing.
@@DaxSchaffer I couldn't get into the guardians, the "humour" just put me right off & it's a shame because I'm a proper Sci-fi buff.
I do agree that I was Really Disappointed that they were bringing back Hugh Jackman and the old X-Men .
I want a new Wolverine .
I want an actual X-Men movie to do as tge comics did .
We should have had a Fantastic Four by now .
There's been no follow up to Etetnals .
Nova hasn't been introduced .
I do believe the Marvels will be good and may introduce Nova , Qusar and other great cosmic heroes .
I think they could do an actual banger of an Alpha Flight movie to introduce Wolverine and further the Weapons Plus/X program .
Im still waiting .
My last straw was Wanda "Are you kidding me, it was her this whole time?" vision.
What was wrong with Wandavision. Wandavision was good up until the ending with the ralph bohner joke..
@@vice2versa I’m excited for Agatha, though. Looks interesting.
We need a dark Marvel multi-verse series of films/shows Spiderman Noir, Punisher, Dare Devil, Blade, Ghost Rider and so on. Comic heroes for adults, gritty yet stylistic stories with realism at the forefront. Make cinematic dramas out of these darker characters. The Punisher movies were epic, give us more of that and *no more* meta humour for god's sake! 🙏
Case in point: Joker 2019 was revolutionary, Marvel needs to do this for King pin. Give us a whole new universe of films that are completely separate from the MCU.
There was a movie with “end” in the title, if you kept watching past that point it’s kind of your own fault
The combo of Guardians being so good and unique compared to Secret Invasion immediately following was what ended it for me
If I cast aside all multiverse related stuff in terms of my hype for the mcu, The only 3 MCU characters I'm invested in is Wanda, Spider-Man and Doctor Strange.
Heard.
Fantastic first video! Honestly, people can point to tons of problems for the MCU from oversaturation, quality drops, non-cohesion, etc, it's all the same repeating arguments online. The MCU train's gonna keep going but not necessarily its fans will too. Honestly it's just a matter of what point do you wanna jump off, for me that was Dr. Strange 2. The movie broke my illusion of the MCU grandeur, I thought it could be a film to reel in the multiverse saga but it only made the problems worse. You could swap this video topic out for Star Wars or any big budget tentpole mega series and the argument stands the same.
I'm still somewhat interested in Loki S2 as it is the only property that seems to be moving things forward so I might return to it but I'll probably wait until after reviews and consensus drops as I'm still very cautious (I'm in the same boat with Ashoka for Star Wars). Deadpool 3 though is a must watch. It's really its own thing and only tied to the MCU because of branding/rights. Everything else is a hard pass.
they'll have to rebuild the hype behind the MCU, basically start from the ground up once again (keeping the story that had been said up until this point), they'll have to regain the trust of those who they let down
That would take too much time I think. It’s better to just let your live action MCU die and maybe give the GP a break
I think you hit the nail on the head. The MCU is focusing on building more characters since so many were "retired" after endgame that none of the movies or shows have any cohesion amongst themselves. Characters from new shows/movies aren't mentioned beyond their own media. They will be, eventually, but they seriously pumped out too much too quickly. Some Movies/shows can be omitted completely and they won't do anything to the greater story. Eternals, She-hulk, Shang-chi, Hawk-eye, and Black Widow can be taken away and nothing will change. They literally just exist to introduce, which can work in moderation, but not at the frequency that the MCU has currently done.
I remember when i used to be very expectant of MCU movies, whenever they came out digitally, i usually be the first to watch them, but now, i don't even care at all, except the few like spiderman, Deadpool and maybe X-Men and daredevil. But even with those I'm kinda scared that they'd fuck em up and I'd loose interest completely. The MCU was a huge chunk of my childhood. Seeing it fail this way is very depressing. But it is what it is i guess
I’ve been feeling this way for a long time. I’ve enjoyed some things in Phase 4. NWH, Doctor Strange, WandaVision, Loki, Hawkeye. I even liked Ms. Marvel. But after Quantumania and Secret Invasion (it took me forever to watch the final episode), I’m just not excited any more.
I can’t keep doing this. I’m the biggest comic book movie fan in my friend group, and it’s just exhausting. I’ll watch Loki, Deadpool 3, and Daredevil: Born Again because I’m excited for those. But I’m not even excited for Blade any more because of all the drama and pushing back, let alone anything else.
Like Cap said in Endgame, “You gotta move on.” And I never thought I would feel this way… but you gotta move on.
Plot twist: every narrative of phase four was happening in different universe