Analysis: Should We Stop Playing Side by Side (in Fighting Games)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ธ.ค. 2015
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Fighting games are unique in that they still have a side by side setting for tournaments. Is there a reason to keep it this way, or are we just sticking to old traditions? Gerald from Core-A Gaming gives us his thoughts on the topic.
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My B
+Ciarán Kelly chillinMyB
+Ciarán Kelly It's possible that I adore that joke too much. Regardless, I'm far too happy that it is as big as it is. I love it.
+Lucas Contreras tfw
+Ciarán Kelly niceme.me/
Core-A Gaming pin this
We finally have an answer, 4 years later:
Competitors should sit at least 6 feet apart
Yeah covid-19 definitely solve that problem, we'll be lucky if we can have fighting game tournaments in the same room everybody gets their own personal glass booth lol
@@Spartacus547we play online, but in the same building, yes.
evo hotel
@@makogp747 I fucking hope not. No one wants hundreds of thousands of dollars being decided by a network hiccup.
@@jesuszamora6949
and some bar drop
and a little bit of slight frame drops and lag
This dudes videos are so well put together, it's actually professional level. The internet is in a weird place with all these talented people that should be making ACTUAL professional money but instead have to get paid off sponsors (Maybe), a small amount from TH-cam comparably and constantly get called a "fag" in the comment section if they mispronounced a word. Thanks for your hard work man.
+xcaluhbration Thanks for your appreciation and encouragement. It would be impossible to do this without it.
+xcaluhbration Right on, I watched the videos of video games being hard and which controllers to use and the videos are so well done, straight to the point, well spoken. Great work. Subscribed.
+Core-A Gaming great videos man,only today started following your channel and its really professional
lol true to that, thats why i say the fighting game community has some of the dumbest and the most immature people in all of gaming communities
Since i have found this guys videos i have went on a binge of them. I really believe they are the best fighting game analysis videos on YT. Well done Core-A Gaming, just great content!
No items
Final Destination
Fox only
Both players suspended on opposite sides of the ceiling
Only way to get a truly fair match.
Na man. Items on max with only pokeballs. You can only damage using pokeballs in pokemon stadium. The only TRUE way to play.
no. planet zebes and you can only attack with fully charged attacks.
Bob-omb only
Dreamland
Ness Only
Both players in a bathtub filled with doritos
Anyone scared of heights would be at a massive disadvantage there. Also anyone who falls down and dies.
carl Carrington it'll separate the men and the boys
3:48 is that guy fucking with his backpack?!
+BlackAera im in tears...
+BlackAera That looks like yipes, he's the funniest commentator on the planet
+BlackAera LMFAO
+BlackAera I'm crying. best comment ever
+BlackAera You don't know yipes?! He is hilarious you gotta love that guy.
3:34 As someone that ran game tournaments for years, I seriously believe this is an actual strategy.
+thesuicidefox I was at a tournament that had a BO smell test at the door, if you failed you weren't allowed in until you showered and put on Deodorant lol
I'm with you on that one, it really ticked me off seeing all of these "PSAs" about deoderant and showers popping up recently when rules were eventually erected to prevent BO conflicts. "Reminding" people showers exist won't help, because this isn't an accident; it's biological warfare.
The B.O. problem is real.
Just be glad the FGC isn't the smash community.
josh vaussler can confirm
hbox at evo 2016 smelled like shit smh
Seriously how fucking hard is it to shower before you go to an event?
WHY IS IT SO HARD
super smash Bros players smell like ass
Some people's fight or flight response are triggered on situations like these. Playing competitively is one of them. They're skin would be so warm it would release micro sweats which smells the most. You can't compare it with sweat after jogging because even though you sweat more when you run as long as your brain is calm, i think you'd smell fine. I've had that problem, playing Tekken Online made me so smelly and fcking warm it's so uncomfortable even for me. I'm also a anxious and depress person, anxious and depressed people smells, it's triggered by the brain no matter how clean you are. So don't bother telling them to shower because chances are they are much more cleaner due to their awareness, which unfortunately have to be worked on psychologically not physical hygiene.
oh god, that Leffen shoulder-pat. Why'd you have to remind me?
my b
+TheGrooseofLegend I don't know the situation but that did not seem that bad or bad at all depending on the person he is doing it.
+RanEncounter nooo that was really bad. that was during a money match with some serious beef behind it and Leffen was in the process of 5-0ing Chillin, just as he said he would. Leffen's been sort of the shit-talking villain for a long time. That little pat was haaaateful haha
Uuriu
Ok fair enough. Sounds pretty bad.
+RanEncounter Leffen got picked up by TSM a bit after that and has done a good job of cleaning up his act though. It's funny because you can still see him physically struggle to stop himself from trash-talking.
Your channel grew as fast as expected.
Well done man, you deserve it!
-Risuno
AHHH IS DA BEEF PEOPLE
Ayyyy
Stay beefy
oh hi mark
I can hear the BSD voice talking about Bidou now...
it's so sad that BO is an actual factor in fighting game tournaments lol
Forreal, its gross
but what if it was intentional
@@Kensuke0987 that would make it more sad haha
Don't feel too bad. It's also a problem in Yu-Gi-Oh! tournaments.
Magic the Gathering tournaments are surely affected by this epidemic
Yo your videos has really inspired me. You deserve so much more recognition. Please keep up the amazing work!
I think that side by side should not be utilised at the most important events. But side by side should and probably will continue to be used all over the place because it simply isn't feasible to have 1 station for each player at all events. It costs too much, there are too many players, etc.
+Wladislav no need two "full stations", just a display cloner and one display per player... and 2 tables of course xD I think every tournament, no matter how small is, can afford to use just one additional display.
Obviously, imho, separating players is fairer.
+Wladislav I don't see how it would cost a lot of money, an extra table, extra monitor and some sort of video splitting device could not cost a whole lot of money.
+Knit♪ the key word is extra, extra = costs more. ofc it won't cost 2 times as much but the price increase will be noticeable
cat8752 that wouldn't be an issue for any major tournament though
Knit♪ True but the point of the above comment is that side by side wouldn't be feasible for most events and would only be existent for majors.
Wow, even as someone who doesn't play street fighter but is a big fan of the fighting game community, this was a good video! I've always wondered why there hasn't been an in depth fighting game channel before talking about things like this and now there is one! You sir, have a new suscriber :). Keep making awesome content man
+Roberto Uribe Thanks for subbing! There's lots of content lined up for 2016 :)
+Roberto Uribe Agree, a great video. My first thoughts are that having 2 settups instead of one for each match makes it harder to get equipment for TO's for smaller tourneys. So they would run side-by-side. But then they are training "in a different way" of what they will at a major event.
I understand by this video that some Streetfighter communities it's fairly normal to not see (or smell) your opponent. I personally come from Smash, but now with netplay this will become even more common. Let's see what the future holds.
+Fredrik L For most games, you wouldn't necessarily need 2 entire setups, but two separate displays, for sure. It would take up a little bit more room, so there's that to consider, as well. Some games like Super Smash Bros usually require player interaction in tournaments between games, but not during games - unless they both agree to stages and characters beforehand.
+apocalypseap True. I don't think you need interaction since people do fine over netplay with just signaling with the "C-stick". But yea, gathering twice as many screens will be harder for local TO's. It allso makes it so the people who run the stream need a separate webcam for each player, some already used this.
+Roberto Uribe Same for me I'm just a smash bros player who occasionally watches street fighter and goes "good shit" lol
I knew that Leffen 5-0 Chillin would be on here
I've only ever played Smash at locals, and it's difficult to explain, but sitting next to someone and playing against them is infinitely more enjoyable than playing without seeing your opponent.
Truth, even when you don't know who they are it's much more satisfying to be against a human, win or lose.
There’s a psychological aspect to it that’s used in negotiations. When two people sit side by side it makes them feel a sense of camaraderie, while sitting across from each other makes them feel adversarial. So I’d assume sitting side by side heightens the feelings of a shared experience of friendly rivalry
Of which can be explained by looking at their hands.
It’s why I hate netplay so much, I can’t chat with my opponent about it and I just start to feel tired after a while
Hmm... I don't know. Playing not side by side seems to be more fair. Exactly as said in the video - it's easier to focus just on the game. Side by side however, feels more... fighting game-y? Like, I've always felt fighting games have different feel to them than the rest of competitive games, specifically because you sit right next to your opponent. They feel more friendly because the guy is right there, you can talk to him right away.
But I've never been to a tournament, so I know nothing.
I feel like players sitting next to each other is in a way bringing the community closer together
There's a point where you ask "Why do so many people prefer the side by side format?" and I have to say, you're presuming this is a conscious preference. I imagine most people don't think about it because, aside from other factors, this is largely a logistical issue. Setting up two monitors, splitting video signals... many factors that go into creating a head-to-head set up for the common player would be an unintuitive, logistical nightmare for people who just want to play the game.
Since the rhetorical situation of this video is to promote eSports as a dominant format, the right way to play the game, it's of course something in the (conflicting) interest for the message to promote. But it never asks "Why did people do this in the first place?" and skips that it isn't simply American arcades and console set ups that influence this decision that people make.
They're using their hardware in its most basic way possible, and likely in what it realistically allows without much flourish or personal interest.
If eSports are moving forward, if they want to play head to head, that means halving spaces for venues, having more monitors and equipment available... I can't deny that this is an ideal way to play a narrow range of traditional/fundamentalist fighting games specifically when the side by side format has more problems than body odor. The video also doesn't acknowledge another factor, which is body size. Not simply the body size of your opponent, but yourself and the equipment you're playing on. I remember having a sizeable win streak on a Street Fighter Alpha 2 sit down cabinet at Magfest, and then realized an opponent who was fighting me was going out of his way to shove me to the side so I'd play at an angle from my mounted controls and be pushed to the side.
I prefer head to head depending on the context of the fight, but for the side by side format, typically those are marked by not only more intimate play settings, but also represents a state of the game that is likely more affordable for most players as well. Do I care if I play side by side if no money is on the line? Or if I'm playing friends? The truth is that I don't, and likely most players wouldn't as well, they're probably not trying to turn fighting games into their job.
This shift to head to head might seem progressive, but the reality is that for fighting games and the context of Japanese arcades, not "Asia" but Japan, this is how fighting games were, and are, played. It's a luxury based medium where you can afford to have two separate monitors and two separate controllers playing the same game.
The question shouldn't just be "Should we continue playing side by side", it should be about "Why do we play side by side?", so we can actually entertain honest concerns about who gets to do that. For the spectator, this video presumes a lot of value judgments related to its thesis... which is manipulative to the ends of entertainment, yes.
Whether the common person should actually give up THEIR choice to play side by side means wording this question not as "Should we" but "Should eSports competitors." The effect this would have would be to not make people narrow their play decisions to a selective set of values and perspectives that don't necessarily reflect their social or economic means.
+FlawedRed Dude nice bringing up MAGFest, also those OLD Astro City cabs you see are WAY outdated tech and most arcade cabs from that era where allot more side by side and most of the Japanese format has switched to that the ONLY new cab setup that I had seen use head to head was MAYBE SF4-SSF4 AE with plenty of cabs also being Side by Side (mainly to save space because most arcades in Japan are now quite small compared to the behemoth ones in the early decades of the 70's-90's)and what I mean by outdated is that the new style head to heads can be shifted to side by side by just moving a cab
+Albert P (Gentlemen2012) Having been in Shinjuku this past Summer, yeah. Most fighting games in Japan are placed in the most out of the way part of the arcade at times, unless the arcade specializes in said games. The Super Turbo section at Hey uses staggering so that you have cabs between you and the person you're playing. So there's caveats to the idea of not even knowing who you were playing.
But you'd find fighting games either in basements or the top floor in Akiba and Shinjuku locations. If anything what's new to us is old to Japan, but the question is still "Why?" and here we also have social factors. In some way being able to see who you were playing matters. Making that social connection is really important. The strategic game is great, but it isn't as if pure head to head isn't taking place in the same location, or you can't compromise to some extent. Either way, they still take up quite a bit of space and I think it likely only applies logistically to some upper echelon of players/organizers once larger numbers get involved.
+Albert P (Gentlemen2012) Surprisingly to me, I've mostly seen head-to-head cabinets in Japan (lived there from 2010 to 2015). I've played in tournaments before and sitting next to the opponent, when you're playing an SPD character, definitely gives them an advantage. It's very easy to pick up an SPD motion.
I believe that tournaments should always be head-to-head. You can see your opponents stick/controller out of the corner of your eye, even if it is not intentional.
Lastly, I used to love playing someone, and having them come around the corner to see that they were playing against a foreigner.
TL;DR. Got first paragraph, upvoted. Tried again. First sentence of 7th paragraph is good, 'nuff sed.
A somewhat easy solution is to make the monitors bigger, so both players can be at a reasonable distance from each other and not shoulder to shoulder.
I Ain't talking about no 4k Sony expensive shit, just a nice flat screen, players might be able to see the opponent's controller but they won't be able to hear it that well, and if they did, they'd have to go out of their way to do so.
I know we're talking about booth size and such, just my 2 cents on the matter.
Amazing content coming from this channel covering every single aspect of the FGC thank you so much. Now I have never played away from my opponent always siting right next to him/her so I always had to press fake buttons which would usually be used for all punches/kicks which I disconnected from the inside to mess with my opponents head. I can kinda relate to not being able to hear mashing or even their frustration in their breaths from playing online where so much can affect the game it almost becomes something else. I honestly feel that excitement is created with tension so I believe in the side by side format, but understand the importance of space between players and I believe it is up to the individual to choose what he/she likes. Can't wait for the next upload much love from Houston.
+ChronoSplit Thanks for the nice words! I also see both sides, so it's hard to choose.
+Core-A Gaming One thing you didn't touch on that I noticed in a Hungrybox match was that he looked down at M2K's (or was it Mango? I can't remember) hands to see where he would DI to land a Rest. Depending on the game you play looking at your opponents hands gives you an advantage.
+Taygon45 Yeah, just saw that video. Talk about getting caught red handed lol.
Your videos are really professional, and i really enjoy them! Thanks for uploading!
We dont need RTS style seperate, sound proof boxes but I do think it should be similar to the Japanese arcade cabi link way. No way to view or listen to each others inputs but still be within the same environment (crowd). I grew up playing uprights shoulder to shoulder, n the antics we used then were distracting n drew focus away from the gameplay. Did it develop a tuffer mental for the players, possibly, but it was just one more thing we had to have in our skill set in order to deal with our opponent. All in all nething that keeps us from concentrating on the gameplay against the opponent we r facing at that moment, beyond the crowd, is nothing more than a distraction. I equate this to the difference between JP MMA vs UFC, the same basic shit is going down but the added variables in the western version take away from whats really supposed to b going on.
Smart Feller 14 likes
I don't mind the side by side format, but getting rid of it would be beneficial in the long run. The Biggest benefit of choosing eSports over Regular Sports is Safety. It's currently impossible to die as a result of injury caused by the player itself. Even that is lowered significantly because of the nature of gaming. But other methods are still possible (though seems unlikely) & getting rid of the side by side method might help. There are other reasons for my thoughts on getting rid of side by side as well, but that;s currently my main reason.
Man these videos are always top notch quality.
Great work and have a nice Christmas.
I just found this channel and I watched a couple more of your vids. They were all awesome. Needless to say, I subscribed. Keep it up.
thanks for elaborating on this, I feel this is something that is unspoken in the FGC. as a competitor for smash I feel that we should have our own separate booths to play.
+Rush Hour Smash that would suck though
+Rush Hour Smash how would you stage strike then?
+Haze R It's 2016 now.
+Haze R hahahahAHAHAA get it smash iusn ;t a fighting game memes daily
+Rush Hour Smash unless you're hbox sitting (or standing) side-by-side doesn't really change much in-game. I like sitting next to the person I'm playing though
In smash we don't just sit next to each other, we have the crowd next to us for most of the bracket, up to top 32. Interestingly enough I think most people in melee are too focused on the game to be looking at each other's controllers. The only mention of it was a top player allegedly "controller peeking" to see his opponent's DI. I think that it doesn't effect me really, but I can understand people who wouldn't want to play side by side.
Like HungryBox XD
Hungrybox was the player I was referring to yeah
Ikr
another very good video man!! I think you deserve way more attention than u have right now because ur videos are so professional and informational.
really impressed by the video. thank you for makins this video... Little by little tournaments are staring to go head to head in the US. Northwest Majors in Seattle does this, and they have done so for a couple of years now. The KOF community did all side by side tournament (pools and top 8) for side tournament in 2015. I really hope EVO embraces this.
its tough. innital thought is usually get rid of side by side but it really is nice having both. i think big stakes tournies are best with head to head while regionals are more exciting side by side... idk lol
Coming from getting a lot of my action from Netplay. I hate playing side-by-side with my opponent and having to worry about all these side-by-side factors.
Your channel is awesome I'm glad I discovered ya a few days ago. Been binging
I personally really like the opposite sides approach - the players can still see each other (over or to the side of their screens), they’re still in close proximity, or still has a pretty (if lessened) arcade-y feel, but it mostly eliminates the sort of awkwardness and problems of side-by side
I grew up playing in arcades in the US and frankly hated side by side but primarily due to "comfort" (I don't like standing close to people in general, big guys hogging up the cabinet, etc) but I'm not a big fan of my opponent being able to see/hear my inputs either. I never pay attention to my physical opponent during a game so in that aspect I'm somewhat at a disadvantage playing side to side.
Reminds me of the dodgy arcades where I grew up as a thin underweight kid - other people shoving you until you almost fall over was a legitimate tactic (some of them were proper street kids, and would punch your head in for real, or steal your money if you objected)
Another good example of this was the Esam vs Trela match at EVO 2016. Esam (Pikachu) was trying to get an up-throw Thunder combo to win the set, and in order for it to work he had to read Trela's (Ryu) DI. So Esam looked over at Trela's controller, saw him DI left, and jumped in that direction to use Thunder. Granted, Esam did accidentally screw up the input, but it really creates an interesting argument about the side by side format
I remember that it was kinda cheap tho
hungrybox has been known for doing the same thing, and mang0 got into the habit of doing 'random tech options or DI' by spinning the control stick so that he nor his opponent knew where he would be going.
but yeah it's pretty BM overall, and it should be frowned upon or shamed, which it is.. but at the same time i'm not gonna stop him from doing it since there are always ways to combat cheap tactics like this if you're good enough
Honestly the "random" tech isn't the worst idea even in a vacuum. If you feel like you're being consistently read, being able to set it to a straight 1/3 chance is a powerful option. Puff doesn't exactly have the best option coverage for platform Tech chases.
I just wanna say, I've been watching a ton of this channel, and even though I don't actively play any fighting games, these videos are EXCELLENT food for thought, and do an impressive job of making a very niche subject accessible to casual fans.
Thank you for your contribution to TH-cam, Core-A
Fantastic video, you've done a great job encapsulating a lot of very relevant points!
Although I haven't seriously competed in ages, from personal experience I've always loved having a separated format. Playing on the independent cabinet is far more comfortable for serious play because you don't overthink things like your opponent's posture, button presses, gestures, audible reactions, or even what they're wearing! My hands act on instinct and motor memory anyway, so I'm 100% focused on the character I'm fighting against on the screen, and not the person controlling said character.
I think it should be separate cabinets: I've remember I've caught my friend "spying" on the way I was holding the stick in the arcades at the beginning of the match, we were playing samurai shodown 2 with ukyo tachibana, I've notice we begun the match by pressing down + AB
I love how you cover the FGC subjects that most don't normally think about.
Loving the vids keep it up man
i just like to thank you for making this analysis video its entertaining and informative, even though im not a street fighter player but i play tekken it still help me thankyou very much ^_^
You know I never realized how character defining this actually might be for the American, western even FGC compared to the Japanese or Asian in general counterpart.
I brought this issue up on the SRK forums a while back. The replies I got were of dismissal and ridicule, and look, even Daigo himself recognizes that players react to button press.
Good video. Guess I'm just a bit salty
good video man, like your channel and in my contry dominican republic i go to add this, i work in tournament for MKX
How the hell have I not noticed this channel before, people should be linking this channel on every FGC forum out there. The quality of the videos is great and I have already used some of your videos to show friends why there is a lot more depth to FGs than most people think.
I personally think that the sideway option is a lot better, simply because its more realistic. Having two people play each other on different monitors on different locations doesnt feel like a fighting experience to me, mainly because most of the time whenever a player is training with someone locally they sit somewhere close to each other and play on the same monitor. If they change it to two seperate monitors, it could cause it for more of a mental game then sitting next to people could, because it would make the whole setting feel so much bigger than it may be. Of course, after a while the pros would get use to it, but any newcomer who joins could feel disjointed when he finally makes top 8/32 and is presented in such a new and unfamiliar setting.
+Pajama Sam (Pajama Man) Isn't it what going to tournaments and being a world warrior is ? Going out of your comfort zone and get experience and learn to adapt etc etc.
+Pajama Sam (Pajama Man) except that players since the dawn of fighting games in arcades are playing separated. This is the original fighting game experience.
Where people can actually play at their full potential, without worrying about cheap strats, or being slightly displaced from the center of the screen.
DridriKon I know but I'm just saying that theoretically in a typical venue even if they discontinued side by side usage for grand finals, pools and such would more than likely still be played using it to save space and money on equipment. And in a sport where any little factor can effect your mind game and chances of winning, I'd much prefer if we kept it the most default way so that we can see more intense play rather than nervous moves. That's not to say that playing apart from each other can't have it's benefits or not cause any nervousness at all, but it's just a possibility to consider.
BananaPancake I'm not entirely sure where the idea that they played separately at arcades came from, but most every arcade I've seen has the two joysticks at one station for any game, save for a few exceptions I've seen more recently.
And cheap tricks? That's just an excuse. At the end of the day when the smoke settles its about who is the winner on the win screen. You can complain because it's a thing but it is a thing. If you call it a cheap trick to use the metagame to your advantage then you have to have the power to beat it or else you're just a complainer. It's not like no one said you couldn't use the metagame to your advantage. I'm not trying to sound harsh here but that's the honest truth. If you don't like an aspect of a game because you lose to it, then you should question why you don't either train hard enough to overpower it, or use it yourself when it's something that you can and are free to use
In France we generally use head-to-head setups for the (stream/final) scene (because we want to set this as close as possible to arcade [roots] experience and we believe it has a stronger impact for the show) and non streamed setups are side-by-side (for logistical reasons).
I don't see any problems switching because, well, if you make it to finals, head-to-head or side-by-side won't make you fail. In fact, side-by-side is more likely to make you fail because of extra distraction (sound, taunts etc) and risks of contact with the opponent .
About the cost: buy ONCE a splitter and use two screens you have among 3902 you already have for your tournament. The splitter should last YEARS. It's not like you're buying 100 head-to-head setup worth of money.
The scene is already usually exclusively for streaming/finals and it's not tiny at all from what I've seen. It's more a matter about what TOs think will make the show or what experience they want to deliver more than anything.
"as the fgc moves closer and closer to esports-dom..."
wait, didn't fighting games basically start Esports?
Maybe but other e-sports are much more popular right now
MenaceRx not being a popular esport =/= not being an esport
But fighting games are still popular despite not being as popular as mobas and fps'.
In fact, one of the most viewed twitch channels is team spooky, which is completely devoted to fighting games.
+Kor-al Refe No Dota pretty much kicked it off. Their prizes are in the millions of dollars.
ARed0cean dota was released first in 2003. Fighting games had prize money, rivalries, and large tourneys well before that.
In fact, the year after dota was released, the most popular esports moment of all time, the Daigo parry, happened.
And fighting games not being as big as moba's =/= them not starting esports.
Kor-al Refe
I'm sorry I misunderstood your first comment. Of course fighting games are an esport, they just aren't as big as others
Please do more videos like this. Good job!
Really well done video, very interesting, good job!
This entire video is, *"Can you move the chairs a little bit." *
I can't say for other fighters, but in Smash, I feel like the majority of the community is pretty chill, so the camaraderie would be lessened with booths.
That said, there should be a rule that makes it illegal to taunt another player via touch (like Leffen at 3:21).
Seriously, screw Leffen.
+VJStrife I think you'll find that in most tournament settings. Even the LTG vs. Viscant MM, you'll find they weren't doing anything other than playing the game.
+VJStrife Leffen vs chillin was one of the best things to happen in Smash, lefffen may be a dick, but we all have a little gay in us and gotta love this dick. Jokes aside, that set was great, it was entertaining, and just eveything going on with the players was hilarious, so stop bitching about it, smash without leffen would be much too boring
This channel is so underrated, hope it gets bigger. Great video.
Your videos are not only really entertaining, but very thoughtful and exeptionally well produced; I love it!
Say, I was checking your Arcade Stream Video and I was wondering, do you think there's any way for Arcades to make a comeback in America? I'd like to think that with all the love Fighting games are getting thanks to Twitch and FGC related Streams, along with the nostalgia factor, someone could, maybe, figure out a modern take on it. Or is it just a dead concept from an Internet-less era?
Keep the great work, i'll be sure to promote your channel to all my FG friends.
Stop playing side by side is a good idea controllers players are a bit advantaged in this case plus i prefer a person who is strong in the game , not strong to read enemy inputs and hide his command , this is not a part of the game , and it's better without it
+Mael Penicaud out of curiosity, when did you start playing
i started to watch frequently street fighter tournaments in 2012 /2013 , and i started to play Ultra street fighter 4 in august 2014 , i'm really new
+Mael Penicaud I follow other esports. The idea of taunting and such unsportsmanlike bullshit even being an option is bad. Keep them split.
+DE Climax fuck you fuckboy you wanna cuddle?
DE Climax ...
We need this in Melee. I just realized this after I played a sheik that they look at my controller for tech chases
+Boom Dixon
Yeah that's why you always see HungryBox wear sunglasses, whenever he down throws, he looks at his opponent's controller to see which way they DI.
+Gabe Jungmann And that's why we need to keep them separated, like they did at Genesis 3
been jamming fighting games since the 70ties on my atari.u sir deserve my sub
Nice work as always :].
I prefer head-to-head setups, whenever possible. Especially for finals (top8, top16, top32 whatever the TOs set as the final brackets).
I know because of logistic issues side-by-side is easier to setup and makes your TO's life a bit more confortable. I also enjoy side-by-side for the social interaction you can see (taunts live, reactions live to each other, chit chat and all).
(NB: head-to-head setup doesn't stop these kind of things too, look at France vs UK matches in head-to-head setups at Cannes Winter Cup e.g, you find as much entertainment as a side-by-side can offer)
But in Capcup tournament, especially Capcup finals, I believe for the show, to make a strong impression, head-to-head should be the setup.
I wished EVO would switch to head-to-head setups for the finals days (top8).
As a casual POV, I usually play in a side-by-side setup, it's enjoyable and has direct live interactions too. But whenever I play Super Turbo (in arcades or at tournaments), I love having a head-to-head setup to be able to focus and feel I'm actually facing someone, like a real duel.
Both are enjoyable for different reasons, it's a tough question to answer... should we stop ? Realistically, no.
But should we maybe switch for set occasions (top8 and such), maybe.
+DridriKon Nicely put !
Great job bud!
+Guy Citron Thanks, Gary.
:^) I like
Core-A Gaming holy crap
We should only play separately if we're fighting against Sanford Kelly.
Core A Gaming Videos are so entertaining! You can literally watch one video after the other and not get bored what so ever ~
incredible digest as always. ty.
I'd say separate them if the prize get's big.
love me some viscant
Great job. I'm fully agree with the split monitors set up and I think this is what's coming up next cause the FGC (EVO, Final Round, Dream Hack, CEO and more) knows it very well.
I'm not a competitive gamer, and I have touched fighting games only on occasion, having a few bouts of Tekken with friends, or busting a joystick playing street fighter on a computer back in the day.
But this channel is awesomesauce, and I love subscribing to channels a bit foreign to me, as long as the content is well together-put. And here it definitely is.
If someone has b.o. disqualify them, straight up
Since the prize pool is getting bigger.
I Suggest they go to the Capcom Cup and Japan style format.
if you look into the Super Smash Bros Melee scene, there is a pro named HungryBox. What he used to do (idk if he still does this or not) is he would stand up while playing, this helps him a lot because when his opponent gets hit, he can look at his opponents controller and see which way they are going to DI (Directional Influence) or roll and react accordingly. This is one reason why sitting away from each other is a good idea. which is why i liked the set up of Genesis 4 this year.
Anyone else here binging all of this guys videos to get into fighting games? I havent been able to get into them but these videos are really making me interested
yep, though it was a while ago. Got into fighting games after watching this guy's video analysis on tea bagging and mind games. The dude makes great video essays.
"People have surely lost matches because their opponents smelled terrible"
yeah say that to the smash room
Side by side is more fun!
name of the music you used in the video ?
it sounded like a remix version of the end by the doors
Amazing video.
This made my initial idea about the Infiltration vs Daigo results much more understandable.
Infiltration only did really well against Daigo whenever they fought side by side (AE2012 EVO matches). When they were playing just head to head (TGS FT 10, World Topanga League) Infiltration could not even make the reads that he was previously doing against Daigo. Of course there is the factor of Daigo adapting massively in their match up but still.
This takes nothing away from Infiltration's dominant 2012 run on the game in US soil but all of his US matches were side by side. It was truly shocking to see Infiltration go 1-6 in the World Topanga League back then considering he was the massive favorite during that time.
I truly believe setups like this for tournament play should be considered much more serious than just doing it the traditional way.
As a Smash player, I'd say our community is built on the side by side format. At its best, you're sitting with someone, looking in the same direction, loving the same game, and understanding each other on that level.
At its worst, Leffen v Chillin.
Smash would be dead without its unique sense of brotherhood (and sisterhood) forged in its underground scene that's bit and clawed its way to the main stage. So I'd say in losing side by side, you're losing a core element of what makes Smash what it has been from the start.
+Tselel and logistically it's very difficult (for now) to not have the side by side format for smash
+ThePharphis Not really, unless you're talking about venue space.
apocalypseap yes, space, mostly. But total amount of equipment is another concern
ThePharphis Yeah I guess so, two displays instead of one. More of an issue of space if you're using CRTs, more of an issue of cost if you're using gaming LCDs.
apocalypseap If only Nintendo were a tad more cooperative and encouraging
separately
Your channel is fast becoming my favorite on youtube. Keep em coming!
Wow I have to agree
In smash brothers, you can tell when someone is rolling (a vulnerable action) by hearing the unique sound of the shoulder buttons
when you split the players up you're losing some of the social aspect of the game and some of the tension. it's easier to set up for side-by-side play. as far as entertainment goes, for the viewers, it's much worse. it also creates an issue with setting up player cams for the stream. do you just set the two feeds side by side? alternate? is a player cam even necessary when there's no chance of seeing them interact?
there are lots of reasons the side-by-side format is used beyond that simply being the way american cabinets were set up. the biggest reason I see to split players up is to make it look "more professional," but that line of thinking assumes that fighters can't have success as competitive games without being absorbed into the amorphous, shapeless, lifeless, soulless esports goo that so many games are sucked into.
I know right? Why are people so elitist or whatever, trying to make everything super serious when that eliminates a lot of the fun?
+DE Climax if youve ever actually been to an event, which you probably haven't, looking at buttons is a serious problem. This isn't about "fun," it IS serious.
Ryan Reynolds yes, I have been to an event. I've also played plenty of side by side and it really isn't a problem lol, the kind of read you get from watching buttons is extremely easy to throw off and actually relying on something like that is just as likely to backfire on you as it is to benefit you.
Ryan Reynolds also I think it's pretty funny that you put "fun" in quotation marks when I didn't say the word even once in my post
I don't like side by side over non. I don't know. I don't see the problem with players sitting a few feet further apart.
Side by side for sure, more hype.
Good video, I'd like to add that in Melee there are times where in doubles/teams matches there are 4 players sitting side by side, and if that wasnt enough, sometimes each team has a coach, like.. 6-7 people sitting side by side infront of a CRT? lol
+Oswaldo Campista Imagine 2v2v2v2 on SSB4 Legend of Zelda Temple stage with each team having a coach, LOL! I know 8 players is never in competitive, but that would be hilarious to see.
Nice video, but did you consider the logistics of filming matches? Its much easier to film two competitors side by side on a single camera. Its probably cheaper and much easier to edit as well since you can get facial expressions in a single camera shot rather than having to edit together separate footage to sync up reactions.
Side by side is better in general in my perspective. Why?
We get reactions, we feel their frustation or joy. Its something better for the viewer.
We must remember that fighting games are also entertainment.
BTW, Poker is a great example. See a bunch of people in a table, then compare it to online poker.
I have a hard time accepting the idea that dealing with an opponent face to face isn't as much a part of tournament play as the stage or the crowd or the pressure to win in general. If you are going to separate the players then why not put them in a box in a different part of the building so they don't have any distraction at all? Then just play the replay for the crowd.
I think each tournament should just do what they want/can do and I don't really think it matters that much. My point was that distractions and things are just part of tournament play. As they say, no johns
you're over exaggerating, their is no need to go that far, it could be as simple as the RTS esports scene were both players get their own glass boxes on stage in front of a huge crowd
Blatant over-exaggerations much? There are tons of reasons. People looking over other peoples controllers, hearing their controllers, crowd coaching, etc. Being "apart of the tournament play" is pretentious as hell.
Man, i love this channel
Yup, I've always wanted the players to play apart from each other.
Both have their own screens (better yet, seperate consoles), and facing one another like at the arcade.
With both players fighting on the left default side, they can both play on the familiar side.
Being player 2 has always been the less intuitive because I'm more used to doing quarter circle forward towards the right rather than towards the left.
No, we shouldn't
1:45
"You see me mashing, and that's because you know as going on arcade you kinda mash because it's side to side so you might mess up the opponent's timing"
Wow, this guy's comprehension of the English language is worse than his button mashing.
I don't even like fighting games, I have no idea why I find these videos entertaining. Thanks for making great stuff!
Can somebody please tell me what the song at the end is?
Separated ruins hype and ruins the competition that makes fighting games unique. The additional meta introduced in side-by-side is part of the game and belongs in high level tournaments. Only scrubs would complain and demand a "more comfortable" setup. Why even organize in one venue at all then? (besides online lag?) It's like asking basketball to quit playing 5-on-5, and just do individual shooting competitions because someone guarding me "ruins my shot". Or race drivers running hot laps individually instead of racing all at once. Get real.
+aestheticstorm Lag IS the #1 reason. Too many connection issues trying to set up hundreds of entrants for an online tourney too and trying to manage the $$$ of winnings. If online was 100% I would not be driving around the damn country to play. Lose more $$$ than gain.
Great idea to turn fighting games into "serious pure esports" and take out any social components out of them.
This is exactly what fighting games need to go die out.
What? Japan is the mecca/homeland of fighting games. It's always been head to head over there. Playing across from each other isn't new.
+Andrei Zhuk When you're talking about a first prize of 120 000 dollars, like Capcom Cup, you have to take it serious. Nothing stops you from chatting with other players, when you're not playing.
Maybe some screens could be an easy way to block vision, and perhaps even cancel sound a little bit if done right
Great video!
Cab't blame Justin Wong for mashing. side by side should obviously be banned.
What he did was 100% legit. Stop crying
If a little button mashing messes you up, then you deserve to lose
See I come from a time where side by side was all we had. Online gaming was a pipe dream, and if you wanted to get good you had to play with your friends or sibling on the couch and there was no lag, no dual monitors, just you and the other guy playing.
It's interesting to see that someone actually made a video on this topic. Personally I think each player needs to be isolated as possible. Maybe even in a sound-proof box of some sort. At Call of Duty tournaments, the teams are put inside of sound-proof boxes to make sure the crowd doesn't distract them, and to make sure that enemies don't hear their callouts. I think if they were isolated by just sitting across from each other, as shown at 0:48, that would work perfectly. As for the people that are wondering if using two monitors will somehow effect their gaming, that answer has already been solved by a few certain monitors that are made with special features for tournaments, LAN parties, etc.
Pretty cool revisiting this video in 2020. Now the choice has been made for us XD
Yeah the sound of the buttons is something really important, I play Mortal Kombat XL with a friend, and sometimes just before my wakeups i mash the triggers to get him thinking i'm gonna do an Xray, but in the frame i wake up i just do another thing, probably a grab or something
I remember some guest in Excellent Adventures of Gootecks and Mike Ross stating, that some pro players mapped one of their buttons empty. In some tense situations, they were baiting a reaction from opponent by using said button. I like the concept, although it does transfer more into a game outside the game.
This is coming from someone that usually plays Smash bros Melee(where we live and breath playing side by side since its the only way to get better -save netplay but thats totally different) over SF however i have dabbled in traditional fighters as well
I like the Side by Side format in general for any tournament and its honestly ok if TOs use this format for the whole tournament, however i feel like Spliting up the players looks a lot more professional and more like an esport as opposed to 2 guys chillin on the couch playing fighting games Good video and very valid points for discussion Love the channel!