I can promise you there is some friend group inside your guild that watches this video and laughs because they think your system is somehow corrupt. There's just no escaping this.
So you are arguing that your own anecdotal experience in a system where you decide what happens is objectively the best system? I'm sure a dictatorship is great if you are the person in charge. You say as long as people can predict how things will go they won't have a problem with a loot council, but most people who have a problem with loot council are predicting nepotism and are upset precisely because that prediction comes true. Beyond this, pointing out flaws with other systems does not equate to an argument as to why the system you are proposing is best... argumentation doesn't work like that. Claiming you run some perfect version of LC that no one has a problem with does not equate to an argument in favor of LC being superior to any other loot system. You are ignoring the fact that most people can't or won't run LC as fair as is possible, the role that nepotism plays, that some people are just greedy and whiney and even in some theoretical perfect system they would STILL find something to complain about, etc. Unreasonable and stupid people exist. People who run solely on emotions regardless of reasoned arguments to the contrary exist. Part of why you argument falls flat is it needs these flawless human beings to both run and participate in the group... humans don't work like that. They make mistakes and bad decisions all the time. You can do everything right to the best of your ability and someone can still be upset. Lol you literally argue at 11:23 that an equitable outcome is not the best one, yet can't envision a single person who might hold that as an ideal? That's one of the big rifts in the cultural divide atm. Neither you or I have to agree with that person, the fact that people like this exist throws a wrench into the idea of no one ever having a problem with you determining who gets loot... because an LC is not equitable; if run perfect it would favor factors like performance, attendance, etc. that don't result in equitable outcomes. People who instead would favor equality of opportunity over equality of outcomes also exist and this would be closer to a system where everyone is allowed to roll (maybe like a -20 system). Again, what you or I think is irrelevant; people exist who value different things. You admit around 12:05 that people who believe this exist; you think it's "goofy" fair enough... but the very fact that people exist who disagree with you destroys your argument about no potential person having a problem with how you run LC. You honestly can't admit people with different opinions exist? Are you going to tell me you have NEVER had a single person disagree with your decisions on loot? Furthermore, you are making a strawman argument on why other systems exist... it isn't because "leadership figures are scared to feel responsibility." It is because a guild in an MMORPG is a social activity, and some people would prefer ANY system where claims of favoritism couldn't fester and tear the group apart. Some people simply value that higher than the perfect distribution of loot. Neither of us have to agree with that, but it would be dishonest to claim that people who hold this opinion do not exist. In short, you are delusional. You are giving off vibes of being a complete narcissist. One sign is grandiosity: "Narcissists have to be the best, the most right, and the most competent; do everything their way; own everything; and control everyone." Oof, considering the literal name of your guild is control freak it's kind of fitting. Your thoughts on how LC should work shows perfectionism: "Narcissists need everything to be perfect. They believe they should be perfect, you should be perfect, events should happen exactly as expected, and life should play out precisely as they envision it." Oof, starting to sound exactly like how you describe your "system." I bet you kick people out when they fail meet those expectations, right? Controlling behavior is another sign: "Narcissists want and demand to be in control, and their sense of entitlement makes it seem logical to them that they should be in control of everything." So of COURSE all your decisions on loot are perfectly logical and everyone agrees... right buddy? Another interesting sign is lack of boundaries: "Narcissists lack boundaries. They believe that everything belongs to them and everyone thinks and feels the same as they do." Oof. Seems like something you have a problem with.
You hit the nail on the head and the guild being named control freak im glad you caught that because the connection I make of that is narcs like to tell on themselves in subtle ways because it makes them feel intelligent and superior. I agree with what you said about the loot system and that he seems at the very least to be delusional but after seeing dots and connecting them 100% seems like grandiosity as you said and guild named being control freak and loot council system with a leader like this. I see the writing on the wall and guild is gonna disband/crumble before AQ drops imo.
Don't worry LC is the best if you just follow the guide lines below. 1. Make sure people can read each others minds and feel each others emotions. 2. Make sure every action of every person in the guild is valued completely fairly with absolutely zero bias. 3. Make sure every person in the guild also values each action of every other person in the guild with the exact same valuation. 4. Make sure the people running the loot council are able to do so as if it were a full time job with impeccable communication skills and understanding of every single class and item in the game perfectly. I don't personally hate LC and have been in many guilds with LC but I have never seen any other system cause as much drama as LC has caused. The problem with LC is that its run by people and people are inherently not perfect and cannot inherently understand every other person perfectly. This is also a video game and every guild I have ever seen that tries to run an LC system with as little flaws as possible inevitably burns out because the time and effort to do it correctly is not worth it for a game.
SR blows but he doesn’t get into that in this video. Lucky guy Hoovers up SR items. Unlucky guy never moves from SR a weapon. Once you get your loot, zero infinitive to keep going. BiS a character? Log off forever, for there is no incentive to log into your SR raids.
@@microburnI raided for two phases in SoD and in the 2nd one i was the only elemental shaman for my guild.I was almost full BiS in 3 IDs running the HR/SR system.Yeah there was noone to contest mail/leather sp gear and what could be by other casters i just won the first rolls cause of luck.So naturally 4 ids in im already wanting to stop raiding but cause i was grateful i did 10 ids and stopped playing then.If you play the game anyways you can always help your guild even if you are BiSd out(tho id agree id want to PvP more by this point 😂).So yeah HR/SR has its flaws and pluses too.
@@solitzpvp4166 Sure, it stand in contrast to classic pvp which is super serious and highly skill based intense gaming An MMO is a glorified chat room where you come to socialize with other people. I do sympathize that as a pvper you quite likely never developed any social skills as a child and are unaware of how to behave politely in society. You have my condolences but if you're just there for yourself then its not the loot system, its the concept of a guild entirely.
The thing I like about this explanation is the invitation to question how you think about loot and the transparency in the discussion. Oftentimes, it's an ego thing. That usually breeds contempt.
All systems are not fair, if it's human based it will always be tainted with bias. RNG/Chance sucks. Frankly, they all suck. "Alright one of you 4 Pallies is going to accept this piece of trash loot that all of you obviously don't want. Also, upon receiving this loot. You have sealed your fate of no upgrades for the next 2-4 months. Grats!" "Oh? You want to upgrade to this sword? Hmm..You know..I deem it slightly better for another class..Oh you want to give me your reasoning behind it? Okay...Shoot. Although I'm keeping this from you. No matter your reasoning. Sorry! It's not good enough..Because...Reasons. But keep coming back to raid! This one boss, in this one raid. Has a 'chance' at dropping what I believe is YOUR bis weapon. And when it drops, I'm sure your name will be mentioned for it..." I'd rather put up with the world's most terrible RNG than suffer through all that above nonsense even once.
I feel like this is more of a discussion between different realms (US vs overseas) than different loot systems. I've played on EU servers and every single organized guild (20+ man raids) I was in had loot council through ML. We never had any drama in any of the guilds because there was no favouritism for friends/people close to GM. The only favouritism that happened was people who were always attending raids and performed best got priority. Everyone understood that.
This was mostly my LC experience in EU, too. Haven't seen any instance of outright favouritism, only a few unreasonably entitled people being especially greedy and throwing fits over being denied special treatment.
The only fair loot system I had was fixed dkp with bis lists. It goes like this, everyone submits bis list of items for the phase. You raid, you get points. Item drops, person who has it on bis list and has the most points accumulated gets the item. Certain number of points is subtracted. We move on. There was no discussion if the item is better suited for X class or spec, if person X raids more or is an officer or his girlfriend. People could not calculate whether they will get the item or not because they re saving points for bigger upgrade down the line. Ties are solved by a simple roll. We played the game and got fair loot share. Thats it.
it doesnt because gold buying exists. only system that works and is fair is MS>OS rolls where those who do extra and seriously outperform other and dont just come with world buffs but drop 100g a raid on mad amounts of consumables and carry the entire raid. If you want to reward top performers each raid tier with a SINGLE SOFT RESERVE the next tier agreed upon by EVERYONE in guild then do so otherwise just MS>OS.
@@0rcd0c that problem fixes itself overtime. If someone’s wailing out buying gold and then gets re-distributed, so everyone has more gold the next week.
@@zdubzz1280 That just means the buyer buys more gold this week and outbids you again. Repeat ad infinitum until they have all of their gear and then just eventually get all their gold back while also having gotten ALL of the gear first. Then use that gold to again outbid you on the next tier until they have all their gear.... It's also literally means the most logical thing to do to advance in game is to play the game less and get a second job/side hustle which is gay as hell.
Loot council is the only "fair" and proper loot system for a civilized guild. It needs to be headed by knowledgeable players that know what is bis for who and it needs to be well documented how loot was handed out each raid. Guild contributions, tenure, raid performance, and gearing prio all need to be considered carefully. Also, gear should not be immediately equipped upon the distribution of loot. There should be a fair amount of time to discuss any loot concerns before gear is soulbound to characters. Legendary weapons should be discussed long before they drop, and they should be given to high performing, high ranking players, that contribute lots to the guild. All of this should be freely and openly discussed within the guild, and input should be considered. This shit isn't that hard or confusing. If having a loot council is a dealbreaker for somebody, let them leave. There's a lot of loot whores in this game and you can't let them rule your guild.
What the hell happened to just straight up DKP? You participate in raids, help out guildies, donate mats and gold to the guild for points to spend on loot? What is unfair about that? The game is so easy most of your pre raid bis is pretty much good enough for 2-3 raid tiers. MS>OS>PvP, no max bid for OS or PvP, no pref treatment because tank/dps prio. I would be straight up livid to be told I can't even attempt to get a piece of gear despite putting more time and effort into the guild and raids than the LC's core group. LC is too cliquey and open to corruption.
what unfair is people edit dkp/change point amounts given from bosses after all the officers and gm spends all their points. Its like inflation and they're dollar is worth more and yours is worth less. Ive caught many guilds doing this. They also lie and say dkp got corrupted and will completely reset it in extreme cases or edit points inbetween/during raids to hide them manipulating the system so they somehow got 2000 points in first raid tier and everyone else only got 1500. etc
loot council is the worst fucking thing that ever happened. unless your guild is 10 people and they are all real life friends. but in an mmo in a guild with 300 people 60+ of which raid? it always results in the GM and officers and their mates getting the loot first. loot should be passed out based on merit.
GDKP is by far the most fair and best system of loot distribution. It's a server wide dkp system that gives a reason for everyone to join raid, from 0 geared people to full geared people, and gear is deterministically distributed. As long as blizzard actually cared about their own game and their customers and got rid of most bots, but we all know that blizzard doesnt give a f about their customers so they even made bots to do the customer service.
Nope because gold buying exists. only system that works and is fair is MS>OS rolls where those who do extra and seriously outperform others and dont just come with world buffs but drop 100g a raid on mad amounts of consumables and carry the entire raid and parse 100 constantly. If you want to reward top performers like that each raid tier with a SINGLE SOFT RESERVE the next tier agreed upon by EVERYONE in guild then do so otherwise just MS>OS and watch the entire guild not hate their lives and perform better as a whole on every front.
Even if they got rid of all bots ppl would still buy gold but this time from gold farmers instead. If bots werent farming the only thing that would change is the amount of raw gold in circulation. Im not deffending blizzard here (because i also hate how they look at the botting problem) but saying bots would help with ppl buying gold is just not logical GDKP is a cope for geared players in classic because if ur already geared gold has no value to you outside of gearing your alts GDKP is a cope for ppl that arent geared because unless ur actually buying gold you will not get your bis over a guy who does GDKP is not a valid way of farming gold because with everyone abusing it prices SKYROCKET so ultimately for an avg player a meaningfull amount of gold is harder to obtain GDKP is only good for ppl with a char thats already bis or close to bis or alt armies with decent gear (so like 0.01% of players)
Been listening to your videos a lot and you're just spitting truth. I was an officer in my guild on Classic's first go around and all of this hits pretty close to home. We went through probably 3 bastardized loot systems before finally settling on a bastardized Loot Council that we managed to fuck up by having too many people in the council which led to a lot of unpredictability in our decisions and a general lack of willingness to take responsibility. We tried to mend this by eventually having 2 random raiders every night sit in on loot council for better transparency but it didn't solve the core issue of it all. Done been through the circus of "well you've won x amount of items the last few nights" and all of that nonsense. Leaving things up to chance will always make someone feel like they have been screwed over, but with a good LC that's trusted by the team you generally avoid all drama and angst
Keep doing what you are doing bro. Meaning: telling unpleasant truth to people. You are the only wow youtuber who does it atm and I love seeing the burning in the masses it provokes. I am not always agree with you in details (about some strategies, for example), but I agree with you in general in most topics.
literally /roll for it. anything else is just jerking around for no reason. if you lose the /roll you fuckin lose. so be it. loot drama is always so funny to me
If judging only the system, GDKP is the best one because you can't trick it and keeps the game interesting at later phases. It has the best of DKP and the best of SR. LC mayor flaw it's not corruption as everyone says but incompetence.
The comment compares loot distribution systems in WoW Classic, highlighting GDKP as the best due to its transparency, fairness, and late-game appeal. In GDKP, players bid gold for loot, making it resistant to manipulation while keeping raids rewarding even when loot isn’t obtained. It combines the fairness of DKP (effort-based rewards) with the simplicity of SR (individual choice). By contrast, Loot Council (LC) is criticized not primarily for corruption, as many believe, but for poor decision-making and inefficiency, which frustrate players. GDKP stands out as the most balanced and practical system for sustaining player engagement.
Isn't it easier just making a 'thatsmybis' priority list where people can put whatever piece they want the most at the top then say if 2 people have the same item on top you give the item to the best/most consistent player? Maybe deathbringer drops and there are 3 warriors with deathbringer on #1 then just give the first deathbringer to the best player. If other warriors now have onslaught on #1 the warrior who got deathbringer wont be eligable for onslaught before everyone else who put onslaught at #1 has it It removes the "friend factor" since its fairly easy looking up the best player by looking at logs or the most consistent player by tracking attendance. And its completely fair giving the item to the best player who can push the most dps/hps/threat from the item first
@JakeFromTree To use 2 items you used as an example you could give the best warrior their #1 first then give the worse warriors items like quickstrike etc. even if quickstrike is not on their #1. I understand that everyone wont be happy if you do this but its important to be clear on why you are doing it. A loot council should at the end of the day do what is best for their guild, not do what doesnt hurt someones feelings. At the end of the day someone will akways be left unsatisfied.
That's just LC with extra steps and bookkeeping. If you think the people who would be LC are corrupt why wouldn't they just cheat the books in that system too. Most LC aren't corrupt, make friends and play with them. Stop guildhopping trying to find ways to get gear without putting in half the effort as the rest of the raid.
@@zym6687 i mean its pretty hard to cheat the books when all the information about attendance and performance is logged every week in a third party site like WCL
@@zym6687 I dont really see how you can cheat WCL, a third party website where you have to post reports of a raid. If you do though enlighten me I've always wanted a perfect 100 on every fight.
The amount of entitled people in the comments that don't understand 'waiting your turn' for gear. You have 20 warriors in your raid and 1 onslaught drop per month. Why... no, HOW are you going to get prio on more than 1 item every 4 months?
This idea that you can't have other loot systems with a loot council component is completely braindead. It's actually super logical and it even happens innately. Do you think a GDKP guild is going to let a warrior blow all his GDKP on mage blade to troll a mage he doesn't like?
I would argue the best loot systems i have used are systems that inherently use LC to make sure dumb shit doesn't happen. They just don't use LC on every single item in every single situation, they instead use LC to limit the amount of dumb shit that happens while letting other systems do the bulk of the work.
You just made me remember an orc warrior mental case raid lead taking my mageblade and replacing it with dagger later on same raid and had equipped the mage blade and said "I equipped it already" when I asked for it then said "feelsbadman" then even had the audacity after raid to hop in my disc channel and say "Come check my stream for a second" I opened his stream on discord and he was sitting at the fkin vendor and only screen shared me to piss me off, well before he even sold it I /gquit. 2 months later I was geared and warriors raid fell apart because of the shitty council/dkp setup they had and people running it..Warrior was dogshit person and player which was funny but at the time it was not funny. gotta say tho fuck you for making me remember that. I had finally forgotten after 6 years haha.
Classic wow guilds have a lot of nepotism and refuse to kick friends and officers who cause drama and underperform. With dkp or loot council ends up going like this. DKP: You join a guild, everyone is saving for trinkets and weapons anyone who spends gets punished and once officers get items and spend dkp they adjust the dkp rewarded for each boss to devlaue others who saving but only when they buy items they also edit dkp giving it to officers and anyone who is known IRL and try to hide it. 2 years later youve been watching the class leads and officers get twice the gear and perform half as well as you, only way to gear is get pvp ranks or buy gold/sell mage boosting 20hrs a day to compete with the people buying gold and bribe the GM/RL to hard reserve items. Loot Council: Not much to say they have full control and usually default to funneling the GM Raid lead and GM/RL friends only give out trash to the best players that arent IRL friends/part of clique. Once they finally have everything they want and youre still geared in almost full blues no tier set going into BWL but had full pre bis and hit max days before them and seriously outperform them. Now you're fucked and wasted months because they didnt give pieces until they have everything they want already. Only way to gear is get pvp ranks or buy gold/sell mage boosting 20hrs a day to compete with the people buying gold and bribe the GM/RL to hard reserve items. Ive played classic wow in 10 or so different DKP guilds about 3-4 mixxed DKP & Loot council/reserves and 5 or so loot council guilds. EVERY SINGLE ONE I EXPOSED them for abusing the systems the rest of the guilds that didnt implode immediately kicked me before I could spread too much info and then magically 2 weeks later I get a bunch of messages mostly thankful ones for exposing it and telling me the guild just split while the gms rls officers etc have to rebuild a guild with a destroyed reputation or join another and have no control and get fucked by someone else doing the same thing. Gms and raid leads usually message me after the split flame me and call me names and a duchebag, liar, and more for exposing them but refuse to admit they did anything even with screenshots and video evidence of it. Both loot systems work well in theory if not abused and there is no bribery going on but people are greedy impulsive and have little morals in video games especially when they think there are items and gold to be made and even moreso in classic wow than almost any game they think they are smart think they wont get caught and I honestly don't think they care or they consider everyone to be stupid and im not gonna lie if I didnt expose them some were doing it for months before I joined and nobody caught it and maybe 95% of the classic wow population actually is too lazy to take a screenshots before and after every raid to track dkp. My advice if you try either of these loot systems, find the richest player in guild that isnt a gm/officer and if they are outgearing rest of randoms in guild you know they are bribing for gear and know before investing time in a guild that you're just there to funnel 10 people and waste years of your life being a raid tier behind in gear unless somehow you're the hunter druid or maintank without being an officer etc. then you MIGHT get lucky and have your shit drop and have nobody else who needs. IMO if you arent a hunter/mage/druid find a guild where only rule is main spec rolls> off spec rolls > Disenchant rolls (if its an item for your main spec and if nobody rolls then those who want for offspec roll. if you get a piece you dont need on OS roll and someone wants to buy it off you go for it. this way everyone gets loot everyone gets gold and everyone happy except the greedy dishonest players who are used to being funneled ALL the best gear and and getting ALL the gold. imo dkp and loot council are for guilds with cores made of greedy toxic immoral people where half the randoms are bribing them for hard reserves and rest get shafted. seen this 100% of time with dkp and loot council. After the last time I decided never again would I join a guild like that and when I make them or run pugs its ALWAYS MS>OS rolls and if guild leader ill have guildies send in the gearset they want for MS AND OS so that nobody can try and bs me anyone MS rolling on items not on their page gets kicked from raid for a month and has to pug or booted from guild. Done that in pservs and in SOD and geared 10x faster and my whole raid was geared instead of just the lazy shit tier gms/officers. I also have many top 100 parses through classic wow and sod so Ive been in some really high tier guilds and used to have no stats and been in some really low tier and mid guilds. All of which were scams if dkp/loot council. DKP/LC is like communism where it sounds beneficial but in practice it doesn't work out like its supposed to and many of the other comments have even more reasons why it does not work
The only fair system is a blind system. But this is not necessarily the best system. Fairness has nothing to do with performance. Out geared guildies carry the rest. It all depends on churn. Are you a team who raids together or are you just taking who ever? I don't mind missing out on gear to someone who already has better gear if they are part of my team. It's about the progression of the group. Not equal distribution of gear for feelings sake.
Get the girdle and not get anything for the upcoming 4 months? Yeah right, see you in 4 months then what a joke 😂😂😂 In my guild EPGP SR>MS>OS +1 worked for the whole classic and TBC era, it worked flawlessly and no one complained. If the person plays a class which benefits less from an item than another class who tf cares, let him have it, let him spend his EP he accumulated for the last half of a year so his dream comes true. The game is so easy it's actually a joke.
I haven't had a ton of experience with raiding in general, I think LC gets a bad wrap cause it's easy to be corrupted. But given the right people, it makes the most sense. The part about not being blind sided is the key to everything I think.
For a serious raiding guild small loot council 100%. Mind you back when i was raiding serious i was always main tank so maybe i have a bit warped perspective haha. That being said i wasnt just a black hole for gear obviously if my gear was adequate and another tank had some piece of shit in that slot they can have the gear before me. DKP literally does cause people to pass on upgrades and have crazy battles for the bis stuff. Just straight up rolling for gear in a serious raiding guild is literally fucked. Loot council the whole group comes up together as a team as long as its not super corrupt. A while ago my buddy was in a more casual raiding guild and they had a weird system where everyone would have 1 or 2 main spec rolls and 1 off spec roll per week and then like 1 soft reserve per phase. So if your soft reserve dropped and theres more than 1 person who has that soft reserve they all have to use an MS roll for it. Then if everyone who reserved it already has it and it drops again then the other people can MS roll for it. Something like that. I mean loot council is just better but it seemed to work decent for the most part but you still do get people holding out their rolls and stupid shit and something drops early in a raid and no one wants to MS roll it... and essentially it ends up going somewhere thats not as beneficial as it should be to the group as a whole
Dude, having been in DKP, soft Reserve, and loot council guilds, loot council is by far the best one. DKP as a system tends to breed toxicity amongst and against guild members. The system itself pits your guildies in a bidding war against one another (most often in a silent bid system) which incentivizes people to game the system in a way that benefits the individual more than it benefits the guild/raid as a whole. Soft reserve, like you said, has inherent "unfairness" due to lucky streaks. I myself tend to get very lucky rolls and always win the loot I want. Being the main tank, it is probably the best scenario for me to do so, but I can see it polarizing a few of the DPS warriors or other tanks that I always win my loot over them and end up being the best geared as a result. Soft reserve guilds also face the problem of dealing with new players winning loot and, due to this, tend to modify the loot system into a pseudo loot council anyways. Why not skip the middle-man and just have the leader decide who gets the loot. People say they want to avoid a corrupt loot council but if you feel your guild has a corrupt loot council, express the concerns and/or leave the guild. When you are in a DKP or Soft reserve guild, there is almost a sunk cost fallacy at play preventing you from leaving. Within a loot council, the good and/or productive players should/will get loot if the system is working. If you are not receiving loot within a loot council, you are either in a corrupt system (just leave) or you are not performing as well as you should be (a lot of the time its the performing part).
Bait ass title lmao . A loot council done by some an AI maybe, but nah not by some classic players lol . Also you prob shouldn’t tell people they won’t be getting another piece for a long time, 4 months w no raid loot ?? Absolutely insane lmao
Bro almost all the shit you just said makes no sense in vanilla wow especially if im a feral and im farming fucking gnomer all day to do not a ton less than warriors in mc gear maybe more depending on the warrior but i cant obtain my bis trinket because what its soightly worse for me and will hold the raid back when holding a raid group back from killling any vanilla content should be impossible aslong as people have 2 brain cells to rub together makes no sense i could pick more of this argument apart but i dont have enough time
Just because something is BiS for you doesn't make it BiS for the guild. If you're not giving it to the BiS for the guild then you're not a serious guild so why even care about loot? You'll get it after the warriors, and praise Elune they even allowed you to join the raid and get the gear you have for sandbagging as feral instead of playing rogue/warrior.
Raiding with this guy is how you regret a year of your life.
why
I can promise you there is some friend group inside your guild that watches this video and laughs because they think your system is somehow corrupt.
There's just no escaping this.
So you are arguing that your own anecdotal experience in a system where you decide what happens is objectively the best system? I'm sure a dictatorship is great if you are the person in charge. You say as long as people can predict how things will go they won't have a problem with a loot council, but most people who have a problem with loot council are predicting nepotism and are upset precisely because that prediction comes true.
Beyond this, pointing out flaws with other systems does not equate to an argument as to why the system you are proposing is best... argumentation doesn't work like that. Claiming you run some perfect version of LC that no one has a problem with does not equate to an argument in favor of LC being superior to any other loot system. You are ignoring the fact that most people can't or won't run LC as fair as is possible, the role that nepotism plays, that some people are just greedy and whiney and even in some theoretical perfect system they would STILL find something to complain about, etc. Unreasonable and stupid people exist. People who run solely on emotions regardless of reasoned arguments to the contrary exist. Part of why you argument falls flat is it needs these flawless human beings to both run and participate in the group... humans don't work like that. They make mistakes and bad decisions all the time. You can do everything right to the best of your ability and someone can still be upset.
Lol you literally argue at 11:23 that an equitable outcome is not the best one, yet can't envision a single person who might hold that as an ideal? That's one of the big rifts in the cultural divide atm. Neither you or I have to agree with that person, the fact that people like this exist throws a wrench into the idea of no one ever having a problem with you determining who gets loot... because an LC is not equitable; if run perfect it would favor factors like performance, attendance, etc. that don't result in equitable outcomes.
People who instead would favor equality of opportunity over equality of outcomes also exist and this would be closer to a system where everyone is allowed to roll (maybe like a -20 system). Again, what you or I think is irrelevant; people exist who value different things. You admit around 12:05 that people who believe this exist; you think it's "goofy" fair enough... but the very fact that people exist who disagree with you destroys your argument about no potential person having a problem with how you run LC. You honestly can't admit people with different opinions exist? Are you going to tell me you have NEVER had a single person disagree with your decisions on loot?
Furthermore, you are making a strawman argument on why other systems exist... it isn't because "leadership figures are scared to feel responsibility." It is because a guild in an MMORPG is a social activity, and some people would prefer ANY system where claims of favoritism couldn't fester and tear the group apart. Some people simply value that higher than the perfect distribution of loot. Neither of us have to agree with that, but it would be dishonest to claim that people who hold this opinion do not exist.
In short, you are delusional. You are giving off vibes of being a complete narcissist. One sign is grandiosity: "Narcissists have to be the best, the most right, and the most competent; do everything their way; own everything; and control everyone." Oof, considering the literal name of your guild is control freak it's kind of fitting. Your thoughts on how LC should work shows perfectionism: "Narcissists need everything to be perfect. They believe they should be perfect, you should be perfect, events should happen exactly as expected, and life should play out precisely as they envision it." Oof, starting to sound exactly like how you describe your "system." I bet you kick people out when they fail meet those expectations, right?
Controlling behavior is another sign: "Narcissists want and demand to be in control, and their sense of entitlement makes it seem logical to them that they should be in control of everything." So of COURSE all your decisions on loot are perfectly logical and everyone agrees... right buddy? Another interesting sign is lack of boundaries: "Narcissists lack boundaries. They believe that everything belongs to them and everyone thinks and feels the same as they do." Oof. Seems like something you have a problem with.
You hit the nail on the head and the guild being named control freak im glad you caught that because the connection I make of that is narcs like to tell on themselves in subtle ways because it makes them feel intelligent and superior. I agree with what you said about the loot system and that he seems at the very least to be delusional but after seeing dots and connecting them 100% seems like grandiosity as you said and guild named being control freak and loot council system with a leader like this. I see the writing on the wall and guild is gonna disband/crumble before AQ drops imo.
oof what in the strawmanning assumptions is this
Dictatorship is objectively the bis system if the dictator is competent.
Don't worry LC is the best if you just follow the guide lines below.
1. Make sure people can read each others minds and feel each others emotions.
2. Make sure every action of every person in the guild is valued completely fairly with absolutely zero bias.
3. Make sure every person in the guild also values each action of every other person in the guild with the exact same valuation.
4. Make sure the people running the loot council are able to do so as if it were a full time job with impeccable communication skills and understanding of every single class and item in the game perfectly.
I don't personally hate LC and have been in many guilds with LC but I have never seen any other system cause as much drama as LC has caused. The problem with LC is that its run by people and people are inherently not perfect and cannot inherently understand every other person perfectly. This is also a video game and every guild I have ever seen that tries to run an LC system with as little flaws as possible inevitably burns out because the time and effort to do it correctly is not worth it for a game.
Loot council is garbage, it is your buddy system
Hello I am ur best buddy give me gear plz
Fr all my sweaty friends love to see my trash ass win and I can confirm u prob deserve the loot more.
guys advertises LC in a game where everyone already only runs SR cuz LC sucks ass
SR blows but he doesn’t get into that in this video.
Lucky guy Hoovers up SR items.
Unlucky guy never moves from SR a weapon.
Once you get your loot, zero infinitive to keep going. BiS a character? Log off forever, for there is no incentive to log into your SR raids.
@@microburnI raided for two phases in SoD and in the 2nd one i was the only elemental shaman for my guild.I was almost full BiS in 3 IDs running the HR/SR system.Yeah there was noone to contest mail/leather sp gear and what could be by other casters i just won the first rolls cause of luck.So naturally 4 ids in im already wanting to stop raiding but cause i was grateful i did 10 ids and stopped playing then.If you play the game anyways you can always help your guild even if you are BiSd out(tho id agree id want to PvP more by this point 😂).So yeah HR/SR has its flaws and pluses too.
SR blows because hybrids SR the stuff that doesn't default to them. Then you need to LC anyways so just skip to LC.
@@zym6687 so what if they do? raiding is a joke and parsing is even more so in classic.
@@solitzpvp4166 Sure, it stand in contrast to classic pvp which is super serious and highly skill based intense gaming
An MMO is a glorified chat room where you come to socialize with other people. I do sympathize that as a pvper you quite likely never developed any social skills as a child and are unaware of how to behave politely in society.
You have my condolences but if you're just there for yourself then its not the loot system, its the concept of a guild entirely.
Nope, I will never join a guild that does loot council.
Fr that shit is ass . I really don’t understand people who do . EPGP or DKP all the way .
The thing I like about this explanation is the invitation to question how you think about loot and the transparency in the discussion. Oftentimes, it's an ego thing. That usually breeds contempt.
All systems are not fair, if it's human based it will always be tainted with bias. RNG/Chance sucks. Frankly, they all suck.
"Alright one of you 4 Pallies is going to accept this piece of trash loot that all of you obviously don't want. Also, upon receiving this loot. You have sealed your fate of no upgrades for the next 2-4 months. Grats!"
"Oh? You want to upgrade to this sword? Hmm..You know..I deem it slightly better for another class..Oh you want to give me your reasoning behind it? Okay...Shoot. Although I'm keeping this from you. No matter your reasoning. Sorry! It's not good enough..Because...Reasons. But keep coming back to raid! This one boss, in this one raid. Has a 'chance' at dropping what I believe is YOUR bis weapon. And when it drops, I'm sure your name will be mentioned for it..."
I'd rather put up with the world's most terrible RNG than suffer through all that above nonsense even once.
I feel like this is more of a discussion between different realms (US vs overseas) than different loot systems. I've played on EU servers and every single organized guild (20+ man raids) I was in had loot council through ML. We never had any drama in any of the guilds because there was no favouritism for friends/people close to GM. The only favouritism that happened was people who were always attending raids and performed best got priority. Everyone understood that.
This was mostly my LC experience in EU, too.
Haven't seen any instance of outright favouritism, only a few unreasonably entitled people being especially greedy and throwing fits over being denied special treatment.
You get Onslaught, you dont get any loot for 4 months Dentge
im so happy to not raid with you 🙏
When i heard that, i was mind blown LMAO. How anyone would agree to that is out of their godam mind
The only fair loot system I had was fixed dkp with bis lists. It goes like this, everyone submits bis list of items for the phase. You raid, you get points. Item drops, person who has it on bis list and has the most points accumulated gets the item. Certain number of points is subtracted. We move on. There was no discussion if the item is better suited for X class or spec, if person X raids more or is an officer or his girlfriend. People could not calculate whether they will get the item or not because they re saving points for bigger upgrade down the line. Ties are solved by a simple roll. We played the game and got fair loot share. Thats it.
u just venting about classic wtf
Must be cathartic for him 😂
GDKP solves this
Let the best cradit card wielder get all the loot
it doesnt because gold buying exists. only system that works and is fair is MS>OS rolls where those who do extra and seriously outperform other and dont just come with world buffs but drop 100g a raid on mad amounts of consumables and carry the entire raid. If you want to reward top performers each raid tier with a SINGLE SOFT RESERVE the next tier agreed upon by EVERYONE in guild then do so otherwise just MS>OS.
@@0rcd0c that problem fixes itself overtime. If someone’s wailing out buying gold and then gets re-distributed, so everyone has more gold the next week.
@@zdubzz1280 That just means the buyer buys more gold this week and outbids you again. Repeat ad infinitum until they have all of their gear and then just eventually get all their gold back while also having gotten ALL of the gear first. Then use that gold to again outbid you on the next tier until they have all their gear....
It's also literally means the most logical thing to do to advance in game is to play the game less and get a second job/side hustle which is gay as hell.
Loot council is the only "fair" and proper loot system for a civilized guild. It needs to be headed by knowledgeable players that know what is bis for who and it needs to be well documented how loot was handed out each raid. Guild contributions, tenure, raid performance, and gearing prio all need to be considered carefully. Also, gear should not be immediately equipped upon the distribution of loot. There should be a fair amount of time to discuss any loot concerns before gear is soulbound to characters. Legendary weapons should be discussed long before they drop, and they should be given to high performing, high ranking players, that contribute lots to the guild. All of this should be freely and openly discussed within the guild, and input should be considered. This shit isn't that hard or confusing. If having a loot council is a dealbreaker for somebody, let them leave. There's a lot of loot whores in this game and you can't let them rule your guild.
currupt loot counsil u mean most loot counsil corrupt
Thank you for quickly giving me a reason as to why I will never raid in classic
Your opening line was the worst take Ive ever heard, lmao... No. Hottake for sure.
What the hell happened to just straight up DKP? You participate in raids, help out guildies, donate mats and gold to the guild for points to spend on loot? What is unfair about that? The game is so easy most of your pre raid bis is pretty much good enough for 2-3 raid tiers. MS>OS>PvP, no max bid for OS or PvP, no pref treatment because tank/dps prio. I would be straight up livid to be told I can't even attempt to get a piece of gear despite putting more time and effort into the guild and raids than the LC's core group. LC is too cliquey and open to corruption.
what unfair is people edit dkp/change point amounts given from bosses after all the officers and gm spends all their points. Its like inflation and they're dollar is worth more and yours is worth less. Ive caught many guilds doing this. They also lie and say dkp got corrupted and will completely reset it in extreme cases or edit points inbetween/during raids to hide them manipulating the system so they somehow got 2000 points in first raid tier and everyone else only got 1500. etc
loot council is the worst fucking thing that ever happened. unless your guild is 10 people and they are all real life friends. but in an mmo in a guild with 300 people 60+ of which raid? it always results in the GM and officers and their mates getting the loot first. loot should be passed out based on merit.
Only fair system is need rolling. Raid ended, RL says roll for X, time /roll 100 and may the luckiest win.
GDKP is by far the most fair and best system of loot distribution. It's a server wide dkp system that gives a reason for everyone to join raid, from 0 geared people to full geared people, and gear is deterministically distributed. As long as blizzard actually cared about their own game and their customers and got rid of most bots, but we all know that blizzard doesnt give a f about their customers so they even made bots to do the customer service.
Nope because gold buying exists. only system that works and is fair is MS>OS rolls where those who do extra and seriously outperform others and dont just come with world buffs but drop 100g a raid on mad amounts of consumables and carry the entire raid and parse 100 constantly. If you want to reward top performers like that each raid tier with a SINGLE SOFT RESERVE the next tier agreed upon by EVERYONE in guild then do so otherwise just MS>OS and watch the entire guild not hate their lives and perform better as a whole on every front.
Even if they got rid of all bots ppl would still buy gold but this time from gold farmers instead. If bots werent farming the only thing that would change is the amount of raw gold in circulation. Im not deffending blizzard here (because i also hate how they look at the botting problem) but saying bots would help with ppl buying gold is just not logical
GDKP is a cope for geared players in classic because if ur already geared gold has no value to you outside of gearing your alts
GDKP is a cope for ppl that arent geared because unless ur actually buying gold you will not get your bis over a guy who does
GDKP is not a valid way of farming gold because with everyone abusing it prices SKYROCKET so ultimately for an avg player a meaningfull amount of gold is harder to obtain
GDKP is only good for ppl with a char thats already bis or close to bis or alt armies with decent gear (so like 0.01% of players)
Been listening to your videos a lot and you're just spitting truth. I was an officer in my guild on Classic's first go around and all of this hits pretty close to home.
We went through probably 3 bastardized loot systems before finally settling on a bastardized Loot Council that we managed to fuck up by having too many people in the council which led to a lot of unpredictability in our decisions and a general lack of willingness to take responsibility. We tried to mend this by eventually having 2 random raiders every night sit in on loot council for better transparency but it didn't solve the core issue of it all.
Done been through the circus of "well you've won x amount of items the last few nights" and all of that nonsense. Leaving things up to chance will always make someone feel like they have been screwed over, but with a good LC that's trusted by the team you generally avoid all drama and angst
Its a right of passage see large groups making bad decisions. We had like 8 people in the first LC i was on.
We made some amazingly bad calls on loot.
We got martianpk representing the BIG P PVP up front and center !
SR is only way to go , more SR for sweats. that's about it
How far the Jake has fallen from the tree...
Keep doing what you are doing bro. Meaning: telling unpleasant truth to people. You are the only wow youtuber who does it atm and I love seeing the burning in the masses it provokes. I am not always agree with you in details (about some strategies, for example), but I agree with you in general in most topics.
literally /roll for it. anything else is just jerking around for no reason. if you lose the /roll you fuckin lose. so be it. loot drama is always so funny to me
If judging only the system, GDKP is the best one because you can't trick it and keeps the game interesting at later phases. It has the best of DKP and the best of SR.
LC mayor flaw it's not corruption as everyone says but incompetence.
The comment compares loot distribution systems in WoW Classic, highlighting GDKP as the best due to its transparency, fairness, and late-game appeal. In GDKP, players bid gold for loot, making it resistant to manipulation while keeping raids rewarding even when loot isn’t obtained. It combines the fairness of DKP (effort-based rewards) with the simplicity of SR (individual choice). By contrast, Loot Council (LC) is criticized not primarily for corruption, as many believe, but for poor decision-making and inefficiency, which frustrate players. GDKP stands out as the most balanced and practical system for sustaining player engagement.
@@athreadpool am i that bad at english that u had to use IA kekw
@@sampel3660 Yes
Isn't it easier just making a 'thatsmybis' priority list where people can put whatever piece they want the most at the top then say if 2 people have the same item on top you give the item to the best/most consistent player?
Maybe deathbringer drops and there are 3 warriors with deathbringer on #1 then just give the first deathbringer to the best player. If other warriors now have onslaught on #1 the warrior who got deathbringer wont be eligable for onslaught before everyone else who put onslaught at #1 has it
It removes the "friend factor" since its fairly easy looking up the best player by looking at logs or the most consistent player by tracking attendance. And its completely fair giving the item to the best player who can push the most dps/hps/threat from the item first
Everyone ends up on the same items so i dont think this really solves the avoiding LC problem. I got like 20+ melee dps at all times
@JakeFromTree To use 2 items you used as an example you could give the best warrior their #1 first then give the worse warriors items like quickstrike etc. even if quickstrike is not on their #1.
I understand that everyone wont be happy if you do this but its important to be clear on why you are doing it. A loot council should at the end of the day do what is best for their guild, not do what doesnt hurt someones feelings. At the end of the day someone will akways be left unsatisfied.
That's just LC with extra steps and bookkeeping. If you think the people who would be LC are corrupt why wouldn't they just cheat the books in that system too.
Most LC aren't corrupt, make friends and play with them. Stop guildhopping trying to find ways to get gear without putting in half the effort as the rest of the raid.
@@zym6687 i mean its pretty hard to cheat the books when all the information about attendance and performance is logged every week in a third party site like WCL
@@zym6687 I dont really see how you can cheat WCL, a third party website where you have to post reports of a raid. If you do though enlighten me I've always wanted a perfect 100 on every fight.
The amount of entitled people in the comments that don't understand 'waiting your turn' for gear. You have 20 warriors in your raid and 1 onslaught drop per month. Why... no, HOW are you going to get prio on more than 1 item every 4 months?
I know you know this, but I still feel compelled to say it: you've perfectly described determinism! 😅
with no bots & no RMT GDKP is THE perfect loot system
but since Blizzard donest want to solve that just do EPGP
This idea that you can't have other loot systems with a loot council component is completely braindead. It's actually super logical and it even happens innately. Do you think a GDKP guild is going to let a warrior blow all his GDKP on mage blade to troll a mage he doesn't like?
I would argue the best loot systems i have used are systems that inherently use LC to make sure dumb shit doesn't happen. They just don't use LC on every single item in every single situation, they instead use LC to limit the amount of dumb shit that happens while letting other systems do the bulk of the work.
You just made me remember an orc warrior mental case raid lead taking my mageblade and replacing it with dagger later on same raid and had equipped the mage blade and said "I equipped it already" when I asked for it then said "feelsbadman" then even had the audacity after raid to hop in my disc channel and say "Come check my stream for a second" I opened his stream on discord and he was sitting at the fkin vendor and only screen shared me to piss me off, well before he even sold it I /gquit. 2 months later I was geared and warriors raid fell apart because of the shitty council/dkp setup they had and people running it..Warrior was dogshit person and player which was funny but at the time it was not funny.
gotta say tho fuck you for making me remember that. I had finally forgotten after 6 years haha.
@@zeraxt LOL That is hilariours. xD
I'll amend my comment to 'almost no guild would let..." LOL
@@zeraxtwonder what makes people act that way. Was there prior conflict between the 2 of you? Utterly outrageous.
People that play well and make good social impressions tend to like LC.
Wonder why?
Classic wow guilds have a lot of nepotism and refuse to kick friends and officers who cause drama and underperform. With dkp or loot council ends up going like this.
DKP: You join a guild, everyone is saving for trinkets and weapons anyone who spends gets punished and once officers get items and spend dkp they adjust the dkp rewarded for each boss to devlaue others who saving but only when they buy items they also edit dkp giving it to officers and anyone who is known IRL and try to hide it. 2 years later youve been watching the class leads and officers get twice the gear and perform half as well as you, only way to gear is get pvp ranks or buy gold/sell mage boosting 20hrs a day to compete with the people buying gold and bribe the GM/RL to hard reserve items.
Loot Council: Not much to say they have full control and usually default to funneling the GM Raid lead and GM/RL friends only give out trash to the best players that arent IRL friends/part of clique. Once they finally have everything they want and youre still geared in almost full blues no tier set going into BWL but had full pre bis and hit max days before them and seriously outperform them. Now you're fucked and wasted months because they didnt give pieces until they have everything they want already. Only way to gear is get pvp ranks or buy gold/sell mage boosting 20hrs a day to compete with the people buying gold and bribe the GM/RL to hard reserve items.
Ive played classic wow in 10 or so different DKP guilds about 3-4 mixxed DKP & Loot council/reserves and 5 or so loot council guilds. EVERY SINGLE ONE I EXPOSED them for abusing the systems the rest of the guilds that didnt implode immediately kicked me before I could spread too much info and then magically 2 weeks later I get a bunch of messages mostly thankful ones for exposing it and telling me the guild just split while the gms rls officers etc have to rebuild a guild with a destroyed reputation or join another and have no control and get fucked by someone else doing the same thing. Gms and raid leads usually message me after the split flame me and call me names and a duchebag, liar, and more for exposing them but refuse to admit they did anything even with screenshots and video evidence of it.
Both loot systems work well in theory if not abused and there is no bribery going on but people are greedy impulsive and have little morals in video games especially when they think there are items and gold to be made and even moreso in classic wow than almost any game they think they are smart think they wont get caught and I honestly don't think they care or they consider everyone to be stupid and im not gonna lie if I didnt expose them some were doing it for months before I joined and nobody caught it and maybe 95% of the classic wow population actually is too lazy to take a screenshots before and after every raid to track dkp. My advice if you try either of these loot systems, find the richest player in guild that isnt a gm/officer and if they are outgearing rest of randoms in guild you know they are bribing for gear and know before investing time in a guild that you're just there to funnel 10 people and waste years of your life being a raid tier behind in gear unless somehow you're the hunter druid or maintank without being an officer etc. then you MIGHT get lucky and have your shit drop and have nobody else who needs. IMO if you arent a hunter/mage/druid find a guild where only rule is main spec rolls> off spec rolls > Disenchant rolls (if its an item for your main spec and if nobody rolls then those who want for offspec roll. if you get a piece you dont need on OS roll and someone wants to buy it off you go for it. this way everyone gets loot everyone gets gold and everyone happy except the greedy dishonest players who are used to being funneled ALL the best gear and and getting ALL the gold.
imo dkp and loot council are for guilds with cores made of greedy toxic immoral people where half the randoms are bribing them for hard reserves and rest get shafted. seen this 100% of time with dkp and loot council. After the last time I decided never again would I join a guild like that and when I make them or run pugs its ALWAYS MS>OS rolls and if guild leader ill have guildies send in the gearset they want for MS AND OS so that nobody can try and bs me anyone MS rolling on items not on their page gets kicked from raid for a month and has to pug or booted from guild. Done that in pservs and in SOD and geared 10x faster and my whole raid was geared instead of just the lazy shit tier gms/officers. I also have many top 100 parses through classic wow and sod so Ive been in some really high tier guilds and used to have no stats and been in some really low tier and mid guilds. All of which were scams if dkp/loot council.
DKP/LC is like communism where it sounds beneficial but in practice it doesn't work out like its supposed to and many of the other comments have even more reasons why it does not work
The only fair system is a blind system. But this is not necessarily the best system. Fairness has nothing to do with performance. Out geared guildies carry the rest.
It all depends on churn. Are you a team who raids together or are you just taking who ever? I don't mind missing out on gear to someone who already has better gear if they are part of my team. It's about the progression of the group. Not equal distribution of gear for feelings sake.
Get the girdle and not get anything for the upcoming 4 months? Yeah right, see you in 4 months then what a joke 😂😂😂
In my guild EPGP SR>MS>OS +1 worked for the whole classic and TBC era, it worked flawlessly and no one complained. If the person plays a class which benefits less from an item than another class who tf cares, let him have it, let him spend his EP he accumulated for the last half of a year so his dream comes true. The game is so easy it's actually a joke.
Loot council is awful, GDKP with decay or Soft Res. Had literally one good Loot Council guild in 20 years of playing.
classic andy's are so delusional.
Not liking loot council is low iq
I haven't had a ton of experience with raiding in general, I think LC gets a bad wrap cause it's easy to be corrupted. But given the right people, it makes the most sense.
The part about not being blind sided is the key to everything I think.
For a serious raiding guild small loot council 100%. Mind you back when i was raiding serious i was always main tank so maybe i have a bit warped perspective haha. That being said i wasnt just a black hole for gear obviously if my gear was adequate and another tank had some piece of shit in that slot they can have the gear before me. DKP literally does cause people to pass on upgrades and have crazy battles for the bis stuff. Just straight up rolling for gear in a serious raiding guild is literally fucked. Loot council the whole group comes up together as a team as long as its not super corrupt.
A while ago my buddy was in a more casual raiding guild and they had a weird system where everyone would have 1 or 2 main spec rolls and 1 off spec roll per week and then like 1 soft reserve per phase. So if your soft reserve dropped and theres more than 1 person who has that soft reserve they all have to use an MS roll for it. Then if everyone who reserved it already has it and it drops again then the other people can MS roll for it. Something like that. I mean loot council is just better but it seemed to work decent for the most part but you still do get people holding out their rolls and stupid shit and something drops early in a raid and no one wants to MS roll it... and essentially it ends up going somewhere thats not as beneficial as it should be to the group as a whole
You lost me when u said ur not getting loot for 3 months if u get onslaught girdle. Yeah catch me outsiddee how bout dat. Mak'gora.
Dude, having been in DKP, soft Reserve, and loot council guilds, loot council is by far the best one. DKP as a system tends to breed toxicity amongst and against guild members. The system itself pits your guildies in a bidding war against one another (most often in a silent bid system) which incentivizes people to game the system in a way that benefits the individual more than it benefits the guild/raid as a whole. Soft reserve, like you said, has inherent "unfairness" due to lucky streaks. I myself tend to get very lucky rolls and always win the loot I want. Being the main tank, it is probably the best scenario for me to do so, but I can see it polarizing a few of the DPS warriors or other tanks that I always win my loot over them and end up being the best geared as a result. Soft reserve guilds also face the problem of dealing with new players winning loot and, due to this, tend to modify the loot system into a pseudo loot council anyways. Why not skip the middle-man and just have the leader decide who gets the loot. People say they want to avoid a corrupt loot council but if you feel your guild has a corrupt loot council, express the concerns and/or leave the guild. When you are in a DKP or Soft reserve guild, there is almost a sunk cost fallacy at play preventing you from leaving. Within a loot council, the good and/or productive players should/will get loot if the system is working. If you are not receiving loot within a loot council, you are either in a corrupt system (just leave) or you are not performing as well as you should be (a lot of the time its the performing part).
Wrong. ban bots GDKP, dont ban bots? still GDKP > SR > Free roll > LC
Nah
Bait ass title lmao . A loot council done by some an AI maybe, but nah not by some classic players lol . Also you prob shouldn’t tell people they won’t be getting another piece for a long time, 4 months w no raid loot ?? Absolutely insane lmao
as a melee player I appreciate master hand in the thumbnail
i play the game better than most people with good gear so whats the point lmao /roll 100
Bro almost all the shit you just said makes no sense in vanilla wow especially if im a feral and im farming fucking gnomer all day to do not a ton less than warriors in mc gear maybe more depending on the warrior but i cant obtain my bis trinket because what its soightly worse for me and will hold the raid back when holding a raid group back from killling any vanilla content should be impossible aslong as people have 2 brain cells to rub together makes no sense i could pick more of this argument apart but i dont have enough time
You're playing feral DPS, and you don't use punctuation. Do you think anyone in the world will read your message and take it seriously?
@Organizm238 I don't play feral just using it as a example since he used it as one
Just because something is BiS for you doesn't make it BiS for the guild.
If you're not giving it to the BiS for the guild then you're not a serious guild so why even care about loot? You'll get it after the warriors, and praise Elune they even allowed you to join the raid and get the gear you have for sandbagging as feral instead of playing rogue/warrior.
JAAAAAAAAKE
This only works in extremely good guilds I saw your video from a good guild video. But this is definitely not the norm. Most guilds are dogshit
People that play well and make good social impressions tend to like LC.
Wonder why?