I love your channel! I The way you present Christianity in a no nonsense way really reaches me. I’ve been a Christian since middle school but my faith has grown since my daughter came into this world. I meet with the Morgan and JW missionaries in my town and your content has really helped in trying to bring Gods grace and message to them. The dedication and commitment those missionaries have is amazing if only they could use that same devotion in true Christianity! God Bless and keep up the good work
@trentsheldo1966 Thank you so much for your kind words! I'm delighted that my work has encouraged you in your own evangelism. I totally agree with you- if only they'd redirect their zeal towards the truth, they'd be mighty instruments in the hands of God. Thank you for watching!
Hey Seth. Good to see you came through and made the video. I know the theology is quite dense so I’m kinda surprised you were so well read. The first thing I would like to touch up is one the race theory parts. Although not exclusively Mormon doctrine it might’ve been nice to have mentioned “The Curse of Ham”. This was a common belief among religious American groups at the time used to justify slavery all the way from the time of Noah. Additionally about polygamy, I would’ve mentioned that polygamy is still practiced through eternal marriage. That even if your spouse has died you are still married and encouraged to marry again. At 49:33, in the Book Of Moses, Chapter 4 1:4, it does discuss a similar thing. It’s about Lucifer wanting to take the glory of saving mankind and all its glory would be for him which is why he lost to Jesus because Jesus knew the glory would be Gods glory for it was his plan he sat in place. The goal was never to replace God because He has so much time to grow and become wiser so we never could become Him. I’m not really gonna touch on much else about your video because it fills out quite nicely and I can’t really justify the early days of the Church. Thanks for the video and hope you had a wonderful Christmas and New Years. I really appreciated your response to my last comment. -Edit: Also it may be good to tell people in your next video, that there is multiple denominations that formed after Joseph Smith’s martyrdom and that the Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint is the branch, which is the largest, formed from Brigham Young and lead to the settlement of Utah, formally known as Deseret to them. Some denominations go back to the trinity and have different temple ordnances. Some of the popular leaders of these denominations include Brigham Young, Oliver Cowdry, and Joseph Smith’s own son. Oliver Cowdry was Joseph Smith writer as he translated plates. Most of these people were considered at the time to be big figures in the community.
Hi @uncleriktovan, I was hoping you'd see this! I'm very glad you took the time to watch the video. You raised a fantastic point about polygamy still happening in Heaven via eternal marriage and multiple sealings, etc. I meant to cover that! Somehow I forgot to mention it during the polygamy slides. But I plan on talking more about polygamy at some point in this series so I'm sure it will come up again. And yes, you're right about the "curse of Ham" teaching being a prominent idea even within mainstream Christianity back then. It did occur to me to mention that, but I felt like I'd already spent too much time on it and didn't want to make it much longer. I will say, the difference is, the leaders of mainstream denominations (like the Southern Baptist Convention for example) don't claim to be Prophets and Apostles in the way Mormonism teaches so it's easier for modern Christians to dispense with those old ideas than it would be for a Mormon. But good call out, nonetheless. The subject of multiple denominations of Mormonism is definitely interesting to me. I may just dive into that at some point too! Thanks again for watching and for your detailed comment. God bless!
Great video, but I feel sick to my stomach after hearing some of this. I didn't realize just how far off-base Mormonism really was! I appreciate you taking the time to shine a light on this complicated, yet crucial topic. God bless you, brother!
Fasten those seat belts and buckle up, this will be another fascinating ride in confronting those that believe that they can be become God, and have their own planet to rule over. (I've just got to finish watching Wes Huff on the JRE first. 👍)
@@theologywithseth Just a heads up Seth... Joe sort of led the discussion (since it is his show), and Wes was very polite and he provided answers (if he had the knowledge to do so) to the topics and questions that Joe brought up. However, there was very little substance discussed regarding the actual subject of Christianity. I was disappointed overall.
@GreggBuckley Ahhh, I see. Well, honestly, I'm just thrilled that he had a legitimate Christian on the channel and perhaps that will encourage the JRE team to do that more and more. Thanks for the heads up!
@@theologywithseth Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled too, and there were some moments where Wes was able to express his areas of expertise, but no where near 3 hours worth. I hope that you enjoy the watch though.
Blessings ❤ Former JW here. I see many similarities with the Jehovah witnesses but definitely the Mormon theology is far more confusing. I found it interesting the believe of the 3 kingdoms of heaven. Compared to JW theology would be: Telestial= Hell where the wicked will end up. Terrestrial= paradise earth where the resurrected faithful witness and resurrected unjust will live after the final test. Celestial= heaven where only the 144 thousand anointed witnesses will live and rule. God, Jesus and the 144 will always live here and will never go down to paradise earth. They will rule over the earth in heaven.
@pesesitademar That's a great point! I hadn't thought of it that way, but it is interesting how both faiths posit multiple eternal destinations like that. That's a phenomenal observation. Thank you for watching and God bless you as well!
@railwayjade I know they would take offense to that comparison, but I've thought the same thing! In Scientology, there are different sets of doctrines taught depending on what "level" you're on, and in a similar way, the LDS Church only gives "milk" doctrine to members until they're mature enough for the "meat" doctrine, which looks very different. I tried my best to survey both in this video. Thanks for watching!
2:23 you are already going off the rails. you are attempting to paint the words of the living prophets and apostles as though they are speaking words which come directly from the mouth of God. The LDS do not have a sola scriptura mindset, as such they do not view the presentation of the message as infallible.
4:07 again, notice how you are trying to frame the non-LDS concept of the authority of the Bible, which is also referred to as sola scriptura, with the LDS presentation of living prophets and apostles.
@anthonym2499 Hmmm... that's certainly not what I was taught by the Missionaries. The LDS Church says they rely on the words of the Prophets and Apostles as having "equal validity" to Scripture. So unless you're wanting to argue that your Scriptures are fallible, I think you may need to adjust your viewpoint on this. Prophets and Apostles are the mouthpiece of God on this Earth, and so their revelations must be just as infallible as God is.
@theologywithseth The LDS missionaries did not teach you that they have a mindset that the words of the prophets and apostles, living or dead, modern or ancient, are infallible and inerrant. That mindset, is a non-LDS frame of reference.
@@theologywithseth You appear to be conflating two concepts; 1) the LDS belief that the words of the Prophets and Apostles have "equal validity" to the Bible, or to the standard works in general. and, 2) the non-LDS belief that the Bible is inerrant and infallible. If you are under the impression, that the Missionaries taught you that the words of the LDS prophets and apostles are inerrant and infallible, then you are under the wrong impression.
I do find it ironic that you are using quotes from, "Apostle Orson Pratt". Journal of Discourses, vol4, Mar 8, 1857. Brigham Young regarding Orson Pratts portrayal of the LDS Church doctrines: With all the knowledge and wisdom that are combined in the person of brother Orson Pratt, still he does not yet know enough to keep his foot out of it, but drowns himself in his own philosophy, every time that he undertakes to treat upon principles that he does not understand. When he was about to leave here for his present mission, he made a solemn promise that he would not meddle with principles which he did not fully understand, but would confine himself to the first principles of the doctrine of salvation, such as were preached by brother Joseph Smith and the Apostles. But the first that we see in his writings, he is dabbling with things that he does not understand; his vain philosophy is no criterion or guide for the Saints in doctrine.
This message is quite misleading. Yes, you’ve included snippets of quotes from church leaders and prophets, but you’ve misinterpreted and combined them to create a doctrine that many church members don’t agree with. We believe the doctrines of Christ are taught within the standard works or the Scriptures. - Just Believe - And yet you employ the same process to define your own evangelical beliefs by assembling for example a collection of 80s scripture versus to create a doctrine that claims that merely passively believing in Christ is sufficient for salvation! However, you conveniently omit the entire book of James in the New Testament, which emphasizes the imports of our works and that our works make perfection our faith in Christ. The hidden little secret with evangelical groups is that your doctrines do not align with other evangelical groups. We have lived in a number of states and worked with and dearly love many evangelical people. But you guys don't agree with each other. For example, some believe that committing crimes like robbing a bank or even killing someone will not limit that person’s salvation because they have been saved in Christ before that act. Others believe that if you have done wrong, you need to confess to the congregation to receive forgiveness. Other groups don't believe in the steps of repentance as outlined by Jesus Christ himself. On the other hand, a close friend of mine believes in the significance of attending church regularly to assist members of the congregation in feeding the poor and needy, teaching, and being taught. Isn’t this an example of works in Christ?
Holy smokes! I knew Mormonism was different, but I had no idea it was THAT different. Thank you for the video, Seth!
@sarahstevens3050 It's very different indeed! Thank you for watching!
Perfect timing...after several weeks of JW studying today I began a deep dive into Mormonism...excellent. watched most of your JW vids...Great job
@michaelgalietta5623 It must be the Lord's timing! Thanks for checking in and I hope the content continues to be a blessing to you!
I love your channel! I
The way you present Christianity in a no nonsense way really reaches me. I’ve been a Christian since middle school but my faith has grown since my daughter came into this world. I meet with the Morgan and JW missionaries in my town and your content has really helped in trying to bring Gods grace and message to them. The dedication and commitment those missionaries have is amazing if only they could use that same devotion in true Christianity! God Bless and keep up the good work
@trentsheldo1966 Thank you so much for your kind words! I'm delighted that my work has encouraged you in your own evangelism. I totally agree with you- if only they'd redirect their zeal towards the truth, they'd be mighty instruments in the hands of God. Thank you for watching!
Almost 1 hour long video! Yey let's Go!
@anthoprsp Haha thanks for checking it out, Anthony! I hope my content continues to be a blessing to you
@@theologywithseth I knew a few about Mormons but I wouldn't guess it was that "complicated"! Thx for the Video Seth!
Hey Seth. Good to see you came through and made the video. I know the theology is quite dense so I’m kinda surprised you were so well read. The first thing I would like to touch up is one the race theory parts. Although not exclusively Mormon doctrine it might’ve been nice to have mentioned “The Curse of Ham”. This was a common belief among religious American groups at the time used to justify slavery all the way from the time of Noah. Additionally about polygamy, I would’ve mentioned that polygamy is still practiced through eternal marriage. That even if your spouse has died you are still married and encouraged to marry again. At 49:33, in the Book Of Moses, Chapter 4 1:4, it does discuss a similar thing. It’s about Lucifer wanting to take the glory of saving mankind and all its glory would be for him which is why he lost to Jesus because Jesus knew the glory would be Gods glory for it was his plan he sat in place. The goal was never to replace God because He has so much time to grow and become wiser so we never could become Him. I’m not really gonna touch on much else about your video because it fills out quite nicely and I can’t really justify the early days of the Church. Thanks for the video and hope you had a wonderful Christmas and New Years. I really appreciated your response to my last comment.
-Edit: Also it may be good to tell people in your next video, that there is multiple denominations that formed after Joseph Smith’s martyrdom and that the Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint is the branch, which is the largest, formed from Brigham Young and lead to the settlement of Utah, formally known as Deseret to them. Some denominations go back to the trinity and have different temple ordnances. Some of the popular leaders of these denominations include Brigham Young, Oliver Cowdry, and Joseph Smith’s own son. Oliver Cowdry was Joseph Smith writer as he translated plates. Most of these people were considered at the time to be big figures in the community.
Hi @uncleriktovan, I was hoping you'd see this! I'm very glad you took the time to watch the video. You raised a fantastic point about polygamy still happening in Heaven via eternal marriage and multiple sealings, etc. I meant to cover that! Somehow I forgot to mention it during the polygamy slides. But I plan on talking more about polygamy at some point in this series so I'm sure it will come up again.
And yes, you're right about the "curse of Ham" teaching being a prominent idea even within mainstream Christianity back then. It did occur to me to mention that, but I felt like I'd already spent too much time on it and didn't want to make it much longer. I will say, the difference is, the leaders of mainstream denominations (like the Southern Baptist Convention for example) don't claim to be Prophets and Apostles in the way Mormonism teaches so it's easier for modern Christians to dispense with those old ideas than it would be for a Mormon. But good call out, nonetheless.
The subject of multiple denominations of Mormonism is definitely interesting to me. I may just dive into that at some point too! Thanks again for watching and for your detailed comment. God bless!
We're back boys! Happy new years and God bless!
@camjames7327 Amen!
Great video, but I feel sick to my stomach after hearing some of this. I didn't realize just how far off-base Mormonism really was! I appreciate you taking the time to shine a light on this complicated, yet crucial topic. God bless you, brother!
@bgslayer4529 I felt the same way when I first learned all of this too. God bless you as well!
Fasten those seat belts and buckle up, this will be another fascinating ride in confronting those that believe that they can be become God, and have their own planet to rule over.
(I've just got to finish watching Wes Huff on the JRE first. 👍)
@GreggBuckley I heard about that JRE episode! I can't wait to watch it myself. Glad to see you here again and I hope you enjoy the Mormon series!
@@theologywithseth Just a heads up Seth... Joe sort of led the discussion (since it is his show), and Wes was very polite and he provided answers (if he had the knowledge to do so) to the topics and questions that Joe brought up. However, there was very little substance discussed regarding the actual subject of Christianity.
I was disappointed overall.
@GreggBuckley Ahhh, I see. Well, honestly, I'm just thrilled that he had a legitimate Christian on the channel and perhaps that will encourage the JRE team to do that more and more. Thanks for the heads up!
@@theologywithseth Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled too, and there were some moments where Wes was able to express his areas of expertise, but no where near 3 hours worth. I hope that you enjoy the watch though.
I’ve been waiting for this series for so long!!! Can’t wait to see where it goes
Same!
Thanks for sharing 🙏🏿
His grace and mercy be upon you and your loved ones 🕊️🥛🍯
Prayers going out for those who subscribe to the LDS doctrine 🕊️
lets goooo!
@howardparkes8787 I was just about to notify you! I know you've been looking forward to this topic so I hope this series is a blessing to you!
Blessings ❤ Former JW here. I see many similarities with the Jehovah witnesses but definitely the Mormon theology is far more confusing. I found it interesting the believe of the 3 kingdoms of heaven.
Compared to JW theology would be:
Telestial= Hell where the wicked will end up.
Terrestrial= paradise earth where the resurrected faithful witness and resurrected unjust will live after the final test.
Celestial= heaven where only the 144 thousand anointed witnesses will live and rule. God, Jesus and the 144 will always live here and will never go down to paradise earth. They will rule over the earth in heaven.
@pesesitademar That's a great point! I hadn't thought of it that way, but it is interesting how both faiths posit multiple eternal destinations like that. That's a phenomenal observation. Thank you for watching and God bless you as well!
The socks they smoke are strong! Some of this sounds a bit like Scientology.
@railwayjade I know they would take offense to that comparison, but I've thought the same thing! In Scientology, there are different sets of doctrines taught depending on what "level" you're on, and in a similar way, the LDS Church only gives "milk" doctrine to members until they're mature enough for the "meat" doctrine, which looks very different. I tried my best to survey both in this video. Thanks for watching!
42:05 They even baptized adolf hitler. It's hilarious.
Holy smokes these guys are even worse than the JW’s😂😂😂😂😂
Their theology is definitely more fantastic, I'll give you that!
7:12 "Elohim" is just a polite way to say "God" in Hebrew. Making it into a personal name is equally stupid as prophet mo calling his "god" allah.
2:23 you are already going off the rails. you are attempting to paint the words of the living prophets and apostles as though they are speaking words which come directly from the mouth of God. The LDS do not have a sola scriptura mindset, as such they do not view the presentation of the message as infallible.
4:07 again, notice how you are trying to frame the non-LDS concept of the authority of the Bible, which is also referred to as sola scriptura, with the LDS presentation of living prophets and apostles.
@anthonym2499 Hmmm... that's certainly not what I was taught by the Missionaries. The LDS Church says they rely on the words of the Prophets and Apostles as having "equal validity" to Scripture. So unless you're wanting to argue that your Scriptures are fallible, I think you may need to adjust your viewpoint on this. Prophets and Apostles are the mouthpiece of God on this Earth, and so their revelations must be just as infallible as God is.
@theologywithseth The LDS missionaries did not teach you that they have a mindset that the words of the prophets and apostles, living or dead, modern or ancient, are infallible and inerrant. That mindset, is a non-LDS frame of reference.
@anthonym2499 I know what I was taught and I can read the claims myself, but thank you for sharing your opinion with me anyway! Blessings
@@theologywithseth
You appear to be conflating two concepts;
1) the LDS belief that the words of the Prophets and Apostles have "equal validity" to the Bible, or to the standard works in general.
and, 2) the non-LDS belief that the Bible is inerrant and infallible.
If you are under the impression, that the Missionaries taught you that the words of the LDS prophets and apostles are inerrant and infallible, then you are under the wrong impression.
I do find it ironic that you are using quotes from, "Apostle Orson Pratt".
Journal of Discourses, vol4, Mar 8, 1857.
Brigham Young regarding Orson Pratts portrayal of the LDS Church doctrines:
With all the knowledge and wisdom that are combined in the person of brother Orson Pratt, still he does not yet know enough to keep his foot out of it, but drowns himself in his own philosophy, every time that he undertakes to treat upon principles that he does not understand. When he was about to leave here for his present mission, he made a solemn promise that he would not meddle with principles which he did not fully understand, but would confine himself to the first principles of the doctrine of salvation, such as were preached by brother Joseph Smith and the Apostles. But the first that we see in his writings, he is dabbling with things that he does not understand; his vain philosophy is no criterion or guide for the Saints in doctrine.
This message is quite misleading. Yes, you’ve included snippets of quotes from church leaders and prophets, but you’ve misinterpreted and combined them to create a doctrine that many church members don’t agree with. We believe the doctrines of Christ are taught within the standard works or the Scriptures.
- Just Believe -
And yet you employ the same process to define your own evangelical beliefs by assembling for example a collection of 80s scripture versus to create a doctrine that claims that merely passively believing in Christ is sufficient for salvation! However, you conveniently omit the entire book of James in the New Testament, which emphasizes the imports of our works and that our works make perfection our faith in Christ.
The hidden little secret with evangelical groups is that your doctrines do not align with other evangelical groups. We have lived in a number of states and worked with and dearly love many evangelical people. But you guys don't agree with each other. For example, some believe that committing crimes like robbing a bank or even killing someone will not limit that person’s salvation because they have been saved in Christ before that act. Others believe that if you have done wrong, you need to confess to the congregation to receive forgiveness. Other groups don't believe in the steps of repentance as outlined by Jesus Christ himself. On the other hand, a close friend of mine believes in the significance of attending church regularly to assist members of the congregation in feeding the poor and needy, teaching, and being taught. Isn’t this an example of works in Christ?