Having lived in several Alaskan bush areas in the 60’s, I’ve traveled on many aircraft. A family friend flying for Northern Consolidated in an F27 lost a wing with everyone on board being lost. He had told my Dad that the only thing that scared him about flying was loosing a wing. Bad weather and speed did it. The FAA issued orders to slow down the cruise speed on the Fokker F27 by about 20 knots or so after that crash in about 1972
Whoa... That's back in the Wien days! Pretty sure Northern Consolidated was the company that pioneered taking 737-200's into gravel strips. If I remember correctly, they're the ones that got the gravel kit setup on the 737.
@ I remember seeing them. And Wein’s old C82 flying boxcars. They had two that broke down in Moses Point up by Nome one winter. I lived there 2&1/2 years 63-65. Also had Beavers and P Porter turbo props
I remember the F27 coming apart in the roll-wave on the downwind side of Mt. Illiamna. The wing was visible over near the lake. Sad deal. The FAA/NTSB determined that an unbelievable amount of positive and negative G-forces were involved. Sad deal.
@@AdventureAK Yes. Wien Consolidated ( after consolidation) took 737's into gravel strips. They had the "gravel" kits. Not all hubs were paved then. Dillingham sure wasn't back in 1970. I seem to recall that they were 737-100's.
The winds in the sierras are just kinda nuts. Most of the turbulence stories I have are from that area. How was the downdraft after that 4000'/min updraft?
@ We managed to get out of the updraft and it was a normal descent. Landing in Reno to the west there was a line of B727’s for a north departure that had to return to the gate due to compressor stalls due to the wind disrupting the intake on the number two engine. My student wanted me to land which I did.
I wish this topic was covered in greater detail while training. Granted, it's been (a lot) of years since I got my private pilot certificate, so it might have changed. Either way, it's a good reminder, which is why I really wanted to cover it.
Did this 64-hour total time pilot have any instruction in mountain flying? Which to me is a requirement for ever flying in the mountains.When I moved to the SF Bay Area a long time ago, about the time of this accident, I had 250 hours time, joined a Mooney flying club (Mark 21, 180 hp). After I got checked out in the plane, I said to my instructor, you need to take me to the Sierras. So we (also with two friends) flew from San Carlos to Mammoth, then to Lee Vining, then back, in a fully loaded 180 hp plane. I learned so much. I canceled more mountain flights than I can remember due to the weather not being almost perfect.
Had a fatal crash happen just a mile from my home. A women was allowed to solo on a sunny day but with occasional heavy snow squawls.Evidently she got into one and spatial disorentation took over and she attempted to dive to get a visual hitting the ground at high speed.So many ways so many things can go wrong.
When I got my Private Pilot Certificate, the Examiner handed me the paper certificate and said "This is your license to learn. Never stop, and if you find yourself no longer learning, please quit flying." That stuck with me, and now I make it a point to learn something from every flight I take, and the mistakes I see other pilots make. There are a lot of ways that things can go wrong, but if we all approach flying with the idea of continuous learning, the rate that things go wrong should go down a bit.
Sierra weather definitely not a joke. Had a friend, his son, and another man drown in June Lake 2016. When a normal day turned into a windy thunderstorm capsizing their boat. 2 other men managed to swim to shore. Unfortunately, none were wearing life jackets.
Yeah, it's not just something aviators have to look out for. I've seen Crowley lake have 4'-5' surf after earlier in the day it was completely flat. Sorry to hear about your friend, that's really sad.
I punched those registry numbers into FlightAware and found it flying around Riverside, CA. Last seen on May 13, 2023. Eerie. I guess the number has been reassigned since.
Yeah, the FAA brings the old tail numbers back around after a certain amount of time. The pilot flying with that call sign now probably has no idea about what it was assigned to before, or the fate of that aircraft.
Avoid the following if you are squeamish. A crash of a Seneca 1 was described to me by a member of the CAP. It too failed structurally after entering severe turbulence associated with a thunderstorm. The stabilator fails first, which pitches the nose down. This causes the wing spar to fail in a downwards direction, which splits the fuselage open and discharges the occupants. In the crash of this Seneca, the occupants had their clothing ripped off and when they impacted the earth, the bodies left a depression in the ground and they were like jello, with every bone in their bodies broken. If you look at 19:59, I think you can detect the downwards failure of the spar by looking at the area where all the bolts are showing. I worked as D.O.M. at an FBO when I heard this. I also had the pilot of the State Police helicopter tell me they can sometimes find a missing aircraft by looking for circling vultures after a couple days. I assisted the NTSB and FAA at the site of a Cessna 182 crash. That one left an impressive depression on the side of a mountain where the ground was mostly rocks. The pilot turned left instead of right on a missed approach in low visibility/fog. Witnesses heard the power go to full right before impact, so we didn't find any anomalies in what was left of the engine. There was a David Clark headset neatly hanging from a branch but what got me was a kids Teddy bear laying on the ground. Let's be careful up there and don't dare the devil too many times.
That is a truly sad accident. I posted this in a previous comment but it bears repeating. When I got my Private Pilot Certificate, the Examiner handed me the paper certificate and said "This is your license to learn. Never stop, and if you find yourself no longer learning, please quit flying." That stuck with me, and now I make it a point to learn something from every flight I take, and the mistakes I see other pilots make. If I ever find myself no longer learning, I'm going to sell my aircraft, and quit flying. That said, there is ALWAYS something to continue learning. I went back and looked at the timestamp you were talking about, and I see what you're talking about. Thank you for taking the time to share that story, and for helping me see where to look at the spar.
The NTSB usually takes what they need and if it is a remote place or a mountain side they leave the rest of the wreckage. There is still wreckage on mountains from very old commercial aviation accidents also.
I think it was Millionaire/adventurer Steve Fosset who hit a hill near Mammoth Lakes, CA A damn good pilot but whacked by low-level turbulence. A capable plane (Decathalon?) but when the rotors are sending you down at 600/min... :-/
Eastern Sierra's....that's where Fossette went down, not sure if it's the same area? Ultimately I think this theory was posited for his incident as well. Bro....no such thing as being too careful when it comes to aviation...
Fascinating!
1968. In flight, lost a wing. 3 fatal. Low time, non IFR pilot. Sad deal.
Frightening thought about that breakup. Interesting video and future episodes sound fun. Happy New Year!
Can't wait to show you what I have coming! Happy New Year!
Having lived in several Alaskan bush areas in the 60’s, I’ve traveled on many aircraft. A family friend flying for Northern Consolidated in an F27 lost a wing with everyone on board being lost. He had told my Dad that the only thing that scared him about flying was loosing a wing. Bad weather and speed did it. The FAA issued orders to slow down the cruise speed on the Fokker F27 by about 20 knots or so after that crash in about 1972
Whoa... That's back in the Wien days! Pretty sure Northern Consolidated was the company that pioneered taking 737-200's into gravel strips. If I remember correctly, they're the ones that got the gravel kit setup on the 737.
@ I remember seeing them. And Wein’s old C82 flying boxcars. They had two that broke down in Moses Point up by Nome one winter. I lived there 2&1/2 years 63-65. Also had Beavers and P Porter turbo props
I remember the F27 coming apart in the roll-wave on the downwind side of Mt. Illiamna. The wing was visible over near the lake. Sad deal. The FAA/NTSB determined that an unbelievable amount of positive and negative G-forces were involved. Sad deal.
@@AdventureAK Yes. Wien Consolidated ( after consolidation) took 737's into gravel strips. They had the "gravel" kits. Not all hubs were paved then. Dillingham sure wasn't back in 1970. I seem to recall that they were 737-100's.
The first thing I learned about flying near weather….. Don’t F with thunderstorms. Don’t take off in bad weather just to be buried on a beautiful day.
That's about some of the best advice you can get :)
another nice video THANKS
You're welcome! Glad you enjoyed it!
I remember flying a Seneca from South Lake Tahoe into Reno. We were cleared to descend and suddenly we were climbing 4000’ a minute due to an updraft.
The winds in the sierras are just kinda nuts. Most of the turbulence stories I have are from that area. How was the downdraft after that 4000'/min updraft?
@ We managed to get out of the updraft and it was a normal descent. Landing in Reno to the west there was a line of B727’s for a north departure that had to return to the gate due to compressor stalls due to the wind disrupting the intake on the number two engine. My student wanted me to land which I did.
I find it funny when they are pumping up the Raptor as a great truck but they are afraid to get it dirty lol. That why I think it’s a city boys truck.
For the record, I bought a Silverado instead of a Raptor. It's covered in snow and mud at the moment.
new pilots should watch this video to see the result of flying in bad weather
I wish this topic was covered in greater detail while training. Granted, it's been (a lot) of years since I got my private pilot certificate, so it might have changed. Either way, it's a good reminder, which is why I really wanted to cover it.
"It's the catching part". Love it.
lol, gotta be honest with you guys!
Some of the most severe turbulence I have experienced was flying through the Owens Valley
Yeah, it get's gnarly in there.
Did this 64-hour total time pilot have any instruction in mountain flying? Which to me is a requirement for ever flying in the mountains.When I moved to the SF Bay Area a long time ago, about the time of this accident, I had 250 hours time, joined a Mooney flying club (Mark 21, 180 hp). After I got checked out in the plane, I said to my instructor, you need to take me to the Sierras. So we (also with two friends) flew from San Carlos to Mammoth, then to Lee Vining, then back, in a fully loaded 180 hp plane. I learned so much. I canceled more mountain flights than I can remember due to the weather not being almost perfect.
Even after all the research I did, nobody can confirm if he had done mountain flying training.
Had a fatal crash happen just a mile from my home. A women was allowed to solo on a sunny day but with occasional heavy snow squawls.Evidently she got into one and spatial disorentation took over and she attempted to dive to get a visual hitting the ground at high speed.So many ways so many things can go wrong.
When I got my Private Pilot Certificate, the Examiner handed me the paper certificate and said "This is your license to learn. Never stop, and if you find yourself no longer learning, please quit flying." That stuck with me, and now I make it a point to learn something from every flight I take, and the mistakes I see other pilots make. There are a lot of ways that things can go wrong, but if we all approach flying with the idea of continuous learning, the rate that things go wrong should go down a bit.
Good stuff… experience is important!
It sure is! Thanks for watching!
Sierra weather definitely not a joke. Had a friend, his son, and another man drown in June Lake 2016. When a normal day turned into a windy thunderstorm capsizing their boat. 2 other men managed to swim to shore. Unfortunately, none were wearing life jackets.
Yeah, it's not just something aviators have to look out for. I've seen Crowley lake have 4'-5' surf after earlier in the day it was completely flat. Sorry to hear about your friend, that's really sad.
I punched those registry numbers into FlightAware and found it flying around Riverside, CA. Last seen on May 13, 2023. Eerie. I guess the number has been reassigned since.
Yeah, the FAA brings the old tail numbers back around after a certain amount of time. The pilot flying with that call sign now probably has no idea about what it was assigned to before, or the fate of that aircraft.
Avoid the following if you are squeamish. A crash of a Seneca 1 was described to me by a member of the CAP. It too failed structurally after entering severe turbulence associated with a thunderstorm. The stabilator fails first, which pitches the nose down. This causes the wing spar to fail in a downwards direction, which splits the fuselage open and discharges the occupants. In the crash of this Seneca, the occupants had their clothing ripped off and when they impacted the earth, the bodies left a depression in the ground and they were like jello, with every bone in their bodies broken. If you look at 19:59, I think you can detect the downwards failure of the spar by looking at the area where all the bolts are showing. I worked as D.O.M. at an FBO when I heard this. I also had the pilot of the State Police helicopter tell me they can sometimes find a missing aircraft by looking for circling vultures after a couple days. I assisted the NTSB and FAA at the site of a Cessna 182 crash. That one left an impressive depression on the side of a mountain where the ground was mostly rocks. The pilot turned left instead of right on a missed approach in low visibility/fog. Witnesses heard the power go to full right before impact, so we didn't find any anomalies in what was left of the engine. There was a David Clark headset neatly hanging from a branch but what got me was a kids Teddy bear laying on the ground. Let's be careful up there and don't dare the devil too many times.
That is a truly sad accident. I posted this in a previous comment but it bears repeating. When I got my Private Pilot Certificate, the Examiner handed me the paper certificate and said "This is your license to learn. Never stop, and if you find yourself no longer learning, please quit flying." That stuck with me, and now I make it a point to learn something from every flight I take, and the mistakes I see other pilots make. If I ever find myself no longer learning, I'm going to sell my aircraft, and quit flying. That said, there is ALWAYS something to continue learning.
I went back and looked at the timestamp you were talking about, and I see what you're talking about. Thank you for taking the time to share that story, and for helping me see where to look at the spar.
“Safety first” isn’t just for new folks.
Couldn't agree more.
In SCUBA we say "safety through education"...
The NTSB usually takes what they need and if it is a remote place or a mountain side they leave the rest of the wreckage. There is still wreckage on mountains from very old commercial aviation accidents also.
All true statements. There are some that we use to navigate up here in Alaska. Sad, but at the same time, great reminders of what not to do.
Inflight breakup 😬 scary thought
I can't even imagine how terrifying that ride to the ground was
I think it was Millionaire/adventurer Steve Fosset who hit a hill near Mammoth Lakes, CA A damn good pilot but whacked by low-level turbulence. A capable plane (Decathalon?) but when the rotors are sending you down at 600/min... :-/
Piper PA-32-300 Cherokee Six 3passengers, 3 fatalities. r wing separated in flight.Recovery date 6/7/69.
Keep being too safe. :)
I'll do my best :)
Eastern Sierra's....that's where Fossette went down, not sure if it's the same area? Ultimately I think this theory was posited for his incident as well.
Bro....no such thing as being too careful when it comes to aviation...
Yeah, Fossett crashed close to the same location. I believe he was closer to Mammoth. That was a really sad day for aviation.