Spotted A Rare Toyota For Sale Locally? Just Don't...
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ส.ค. 2024
- We're pretty sure that like us, you like the idea of a bargain, especially if it's something that looks in pretty good condition being sold at a ridiculously discounted price.
From time to time, bargains do happen - but when we came across a car that was once $60,000 being sold locally for far less... we knew it came with a catch.
But do you?
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00:00 - Introduction
02:13 - The car for sale... that isn't a bargain
03:28 - A quick refresher
03:57 - Let's talk Mirai
04:23 - How they work
06:35 - Refueling stations have been problematic...
09:38 - Outside of the U.S.
10:32 - Why Mirais are turning up in strange places...
13:08 - Used dealerships aren't aware of the what's required
15:26 - Early EVs are now found every, but there's a BIG difference
17:18 - Thanks, and Goodbye!
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Presenter, Script, Audio: Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield
Camera, Editor, Colorist: M. Horton
Art and Animation: Erin Carlie
Producer: Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield
© Transport Evolved LLC, 2024
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I suspect that the used car dealerships that bid on Mirais have no idea at all what they bought.
I suspect you are right. Which begs the question: HOW STUPID ARE THEY?
And the answer of course is ...PRETTY STUPID.
Might have even been bought in a lot with nine other cars.
Used car dealer best case scenario: Oh wow that's a weird gas inlet...
Used car dealer worst case scenario: Oh neat! A natural gas car! Lets hook that up to our filler....
I am in Victoria BC (where your map shows the "Vancouver" fill station) and we do have ONE fill station that is one of the ones where it won't fully fill a Mirai. A dew years ago the hyundai dealership had two Mirai that they had CA$25.000 window stickers. I offered them $1000 for one so I could replace the fuel cell with a battery. Also there has been a private sale of one on marketplace for a year or so. Someone with a suspended asset. The real criminal act is the provincial government has assigned a lot of money for hydrogen development. Most politicians know nothing of physics. I am going to post this video on Facebook to shame our government. Thank you.
Is that the BC govt supporting Ballard?
Did you successfully convert it to a battery? how much range do you get? Would you do it again?
In 2021 I have looked up that there was 21 Hydrogen filling stations in the UK there are now 5 . My closest would be 2.5 hrs away
I once built hydrogen generator for someone that wanted to use it for a mini torch set up. It is possible to make a hydrogen generator that uses off peak electric, but I could not get the price down below $12 per gallon equivalent. EV's are around $1 per gallon equivalent in my area.
I used a tiny hydrogen torch used for brazing small parts like jewelry. It worked great. I think they still make them, trade mark Water Welder. .
Cheese metal 🤣. Yes, looking at car ads can be a dangerous hobby 😉
the buyers know its cheese metal and they still spend a lot of money. why???
Those tempted by a Mirai on sale: there are only 62 H2 fueling stations in USA and Canada, 55 of them in California alone. Good luck trying to generate hydrogen on your roof!
I guess you could use the Mirai for yard art if the price is right.
I gotta wonder if some TH-cam car person will try an EV conversion of a Mirai.
Given the collective intelligence of "some TH-camrs" they would most likely try to convert it into an ICE powered by the high pressure hydrogen tanks.
@@toyotaprius79 don’t give Rich any ideas…
Not a bad idea, it's a hybrid, with a battery and ev motor, get rid of the tank and Fuelcell and replace it with batteries and off you go! (obviously i have no idea how, have the skill to or money or budget...)
but why?
@@scottmcshannon6821 sure the rest of the car is fine, be a shame to scrap a perfectly good bodyshell. Not an economic option i'm sure
Had so many online arguments with hydrogen stans over the years. Latest look at national H2 infrastructure shows US still has less than 100 H2 fueling stations (though it's gone up from 30-something to 60-something w00t), and those mostly concentrated in CA. All Nikki's well-taken points have been obvious for many years, so it's weird that FCEVs are still a thing. I guess people just love their ICE refueling paradigm, and can't get their heads around the somewhat different EV refueling paradigm, so they jump at what superficially resembles the former.
Maybe these cars can be retrofitted with battery-electric features.
They must have a regenerative charging system for its small battery. Tap into that and you have a great get to work car for the price of a plug and a relay. You could take out the tanks and fuel cell and sell them, and lighten it up. Fitting in a bigger battery would take some engineering.
Any time now I'm sure Toyota will begin investing the $500B in infrastructure needed to kick start the hydrogen passenger car market. I only need to drive it 1800 miles to get refueled. Tesla wouldn't have sold any cars without building out their SC network and hydrogen fans will need to do the same thing. Meanwhile, we already have electricity in even the most remote areas of the world.
Just as, for decades, there have been enthusiasts converting ICE cars to electric (installations ranging from very dodgy to pretty darn impressive) , a new bunch of enthusiastics can start buying themselves some cheap Mirais to convert to battery? ;)
I wonder if it would be possible to refit a Mirai to run on methane. Certainly beyond my shade tree skills.
@@PygKLB No. Fuel cells don't work that way. Hydrogen is required (though hydrogen can certainly be made from methane, expensively, and off-vehicle).
@@alsavage1 but can you yank all of that out and put in a bigger battery and an inverter and the necessary wiring? It seems like it would be easier than an ICE conversion because the electric motors etc are already there, it comes down to changing how you get the electricity to it. But I'm just speculating, is there some additional complication I'm missing?
@@paulworkman2370 I don't see why a FCV (which is an EV, just not a BEV) couldn't be converted to a BEV.
However, "conversion" of modern vehicles isn't like an engine swap or an EV conversion of days gone by. You have to fool a _lot_ of CAN devices to make the integration with the rest of the vehicle work, and brother that isn't easy (spoken as someone who is adding DCFC to a 2014 EV that never came with it).
Don’t you know, hydrogen is the future. LOL
And always will be! 😂
@@patreekotime4578 I honestly seriously looked into converting my 2006 Chevy Avalanche to hydrogen. It is the most abundant element in the universe, so should be easy, right? Turned out, the extraction of H2 is more expensive than the energy returned. Also, storing H2 in the car takes a ton of space. And the tanks need to be replaced every five years. I even looked into getting a fuelly home station. Not doable.
Unfortunately, my tap water contains dihydrogen monoxide, so is very dangerous when heated, can cause severe tissue damage. when exposed for long periods of time, may lead to unpleasant side-effects when ingested, and is a major component of acid rain.
@@KaiPonte DHMO overexposure kills thousands of people every year. And it's a main component of Chemtrails.
@@KaiPonte Yes, most abundant element... but least abundant on the surface of the earth in it's pure molecular form. Most energy-dense molecule.... but also most reactive and least dense molecule. Which mean it trys to react with everything it touches and has to be compressed to be useful as a fuel. So the tanks end up heavy, thick and expensive. Everything about hydrogen as a fuel has all been misdirection through oversimilification. Or as we say it in the country... lying through the skin of their teeth.
I remember 30 years ago reading about how hydrogen was going to be the energy of the future because they were developing a containment system that would store molecule hydrogen in a matrix, like the way batteries store lithium. When I started hearing about hydrogen powered cars I thought for sure they must have solved that... then I saw the giant tanks and just laughed. All that research went nowhere.
I thought children are the future.
I'd love to see a Mari to EV swap. Maybe get a Chevy bolt battery in there ?
I was thinking that would be a nice subtle middle finger to Toyota .. :)
The other thing to be aware of is that many of those closed auctions are for "lots" of cars. Meaning a prepackaged number of vehicles. Dealers often expect at least one or two 'problem' cars in each lot of 50. After all they can make a killing on 48 of the lot, and pass along the problem cars by deeply discounting them.
Came here to say the same!
Good advice. I hope this prevents some costly (misinformed) mistakes.
Great episode. Thanks for posting it!
- Buys $100.000 F150 Lightning.
- Says she doesn't have money to fix a scooter.
Keepin it real, love your videos.
For a start, the F150 Lightning wasn't $100,000. Secondly, it was closer to $64,000, and was purchased as a backup power solution for the studio, a smallholding truck (for transporting wood and farm stuff) and a camera-hauling and gear truck for the channel. I purchased this using money from my wife's job, not the channel, for which I get nothing currently. In fact, I last paid myself back in February, and then it was $1,000 for a whole month's full time work.
You can criticize if you want, but remember that it costs time, money, and resources to make these videos. Thanks.
Our province of Alberta is investing in h2 transportation. Our premier who is a ex tv and radio host and in the petroleum industry back pocket is very wise and well versed in technology. (😂)I think we already have one filling station in the province. Going gang busters. 😂
It seems like such a strange decision for Toyota to sell the Mirais outright. They're trialling them here at the moment (as well as the Hyundai Nexo), but they're only leasing them to large fleets.
Also, I'm surprised Toyota are skeptical about EVs, considering their market dominance in Load Shifting Equipment.
Toyota got burned by NiMH battery patents. The story is described in part in the "Patent encumbrance of large automotive NiMH batteries" article on Wikipedia.
Despite opposing the California Zero emission mandate near the end of the last century: GM developed a pretty good electric car, the EV-1. It had enough range for typical city trips. It was not sold, but leased to customers. After the Zero emission mandate was defeated: GM recalled the EVs and crushed them. Much like happened to streetcars nearly a century earlier.
But just crushing the Electric car was not enough. They needed to salt the Earth so to speak. So GM sold the NiMH battery patents to Texaco, an oil company. Patents have a particular property. Ostensibly they are designed to encourage innovation by encouraging the disclosure of technologies. But patent holders are NOT required to license a patent. Texaco was later purchased by Chevron. Chevron then sued Panasonic, the battery supplier for the Toyota RAV4 EV. Toyota at the time had a lot of experience with NiMH batteries: having used them in their Prius hybrids. But I guess not requiring fuel was a step too far for the oil company. Toyota has been focusing in Hydrogen fuel cells ever since.
I am convinced that the Tesla battery design: with hundreds of relatively volatile 18650 cells, commonly used in laptops at the time, was actually a patent work-around. Battery suppliers can't get sued for making a commodity product! Too bad that EVs will now forever be associated with car fires now though. There are safer battery chemistries.
4:03 LOL Murai = Japanese for "Future" .... I didn't know that. How appropriate, as they are certainly not practical "Now". Maybe they should have called it OO-Murai... (I don't know Japanese, but assume from my Manga reading that it might convey the idea of "Very Far Future".)
“Mirai” sounds more and more like “mirage.”
@@PygKLB You'd be a Moron to buy one.
Crazy how big oils efforts to keep selling fuel that drivers can't produce themselves (ex. solar) backfires in some cases.
They are amazing Cars!Toyota hybrids are the best!
@@BrunoHeggli-zp3nl Actually I have to disagree. The Toyota soft hybrids (non-plug-in) are terrible cars. I got a rental a couple months back and they are annoying as hell. Constant engine start-stop without any obvious reason. And the gas mileage was around 40mpg. I used to have a 2005 Toyota Corolla and that was an ice car that got 35mpg. For 5mpg savings that is terrible!
@@esprit1st75 I got 39 MPG on the last tank in my 2015 Focus.
It would be amazing to see a BEV conversion of these Mirai’s, but I suspect there aren’t enough to make the development time worth it.
With one model to design for, it should be a good business to design a kit. Get a Bolt or Tesla battery, add wiring and charger, battery management system, software interface to the car.
I've just had a look at one of our German car sales portals, and there's dozens of Mirais available for around 15-20k$, and a few dealerships are still actually trying to sell new ones for their original MSRP of around 80k$ - as if that's going to happen any time soon. And we're still blessed with around 160 H2gas stations all across Europe, roughly every 100km, so you can at least hop from one to the next, just as we had to do in the early days of EVs. H2 is sold between 16-25$ per kg, so long distance driving costs roughly the same as regular gasoline does (of course only because of massive federal subsidies..)
The best Toyota can still do is think of a way to refit the Mirai with a battery pack and make it an EV.. but I don't think H2 is going anywhere anymore, at least for individual mobility.
What I find so frustrating is that every time you hear about government funding for future vehicle technologies, at least half of it is always earmarked for hydrogen. Imagine how much further ahead BEV infrastructure would be if we weren't wasting all our money on hydrogen!
Part of the disinformation scheme: all ideas are equal, terrible or good, from dimwits or from scientists
Mirai? 🤔 Pfffft!
Only Toyotas worth hunting down are the iQ EV and RAV4EV
I just passed 120k miles on my '14 RAV4 EV. _Not_ trouble-free miles, as nearly every single part with Tesla's name on it has been repaired or replaced thus far, but the actual driving is good.
Currently the EA at Gulfport MS and the one at Hammond MS are closed for updating with more modern chargers. This cuts the East West I 10 cross country route.
Also, Honda sold Clarity Fool Cell vehicles in SoCal so watch out for those too.
It might be a marked in Norway.
EV's had to be kicked out of the bus lane. With 1/3 EV's on the road in Oslo, it was imposible to keep this system. Even with one passenger.
But, Hydrogen cars can still use the bus lane. So, it looks like the hydrogen car sales are going up.
So Dealers are as stupid as we suspected? Or was it a lot buy and they had to buy it to get the others in the lot they wanted?
Don't forget to include the $150 Washington state annual EV registration fee in the cost to purchase. Driven or not, it will be part of the purchase transaction. LOL.
The Mirai FCV does have a 1.6 kWh battery, just not plug-inlet! Removing the fuel cell (engine), and opening up the volume that 122 litre's of tanks take up, it might make for an interesting BEV conversion project. Adding 15-30 kWh of battery might make for a local daily driver.
Note: Even if di-hydrogen fuel at the required pressures should be available; the Mirai has regular 5,000-mile maintenance intervals, with "fuel cell system inspection" needing to be performed every 10,000 miles. This requires a special conditioning fluid that cost ~$800/gallon. Even the air filter (part 17811-77020) has a MSRP of $176.83. (this for the fuel cell stack, not the cabin air filter ... that has MSRP of $26.96). Should you need a replacement fuel cell module (part: 1A1H0-77011), it has a MSRP of $32,047.59. Sensors, and pressure regulators all have prices in $300-$500 range. BTW: Good luck finding a local mechanic to do the service.
you said the mirai had good specs and was a full size sedan. an EV has much more room than expected on the inside. looking at the size of the 2 tanks that are installed in a mirai it has much much less room inside than expected. are they just large 2 seaters?
A second hand Mirai would be perfect for an off grid home or a small off grid village.
If you live somewhere sunny and your solar panels make all the power for the day time and your battery system stores all the power for the night time, you might not have enough power for the winter. But the Mirai has a fuel cell that can be taken out and plugged into an absolutely massive fuel tank full of hydrogen that you've generated for the entire summer. OK you might need a fuel tank the size of a lorry, but it'll work to power a small village for the winter.
Alternatively you might live somewhere which is windy all winter long and you need hydrogen power in the summer.
So about 8 grand for a big fuel cell is a good deal. There must be plenty of remote villages around the US which could make use of these large fuel cells.
Storing hydrogen long term is not going to work because of the leakage. Also you need a large expensive hydrogen generator. Just put up a windmill and some solar cells, and a small battery.
H2 might make a good replacement for the terrible fuel oil they use in container ships, nuclear reactors could work well there too.
H2 could have a use in grid power, so long as they're not trying to pipe the H2 anywhere.
H2 does not work for passenger cars.
Believe it or not, Toyota is still selling Mirai new in Tustin, CA.
“Offering for sale” would be more accurate ;-)
I would say it's criminal, but it's legal, so just a scam
2:30 One day, after we reach that golden post-scarcity utopia (we may be heading there), things like hydrogen powered light vehicles may become practical for folks to own and drive, though there is no chance that they'll ever be the more efficient and economical choice in a sane future.
How are you gonna make hydrogen in your cave? An EV can use sunlight.
@@jamesvandamme7786 cave. Post scarcity civilization is a high tech deal.
Despite all the negatives of hydrogen i actually think it may have a future in cars as a hybrid range extender for high milage drivers who need to drive long distance. It seems like they will start using it more for long range hgvs and coaches where bevs arent ideal. If that does happen then there will be loads of lorry refueling stations dotted around that cars might be able to use. Or hydrogen trucks wont happen because there are more and faster chargers everywhere (like the huge megawatt chargers) which is probably what will happen. But right now it still could go either way, my money is on bev due to simplicity and costs.
Byedrogen.
are the tanks due for replacement ? in the UK they give them a 10yr life
Thanks
Isn't posible to convert this car to EV?
The fuel cell has lot of costly materials, so maybe you can sell this?
Yep. They’re full of platinum. Probably worth more than the dealers are asking.
The tough part about an EV conversion, or any other major powertrain substitution on a modern vehicle, is the software integration. The only viable way for this to be done correctly (safe, legal, reliable, etc) is if Toyota were to offer such a conversion themselves ... like that's ever going to happen; it would require Toyota to swallow their pride. There's no business case for it ... from the manufacturer's point of view, it's better to shred the Mirai and crank out one more new BZ4x off the existing production line.
Green Hydrogen will be a following/trailing technology as renewable generation exceeds demand. (we are talking regional/grid level) There will be a place and time for it on an industrial scale. There may be industrial/manufacturing/transportation applications for it in the future.
Mirai is Japanese for dead end.
It's a shame we never standardized names for decades, 10s, 20s - 2010/2020 unless specified as 1910s, 1920s. Teens would be 2013-2019
Watch Sabine Hossenfelder’s video about hydrogen use in vehicles. Someone tell me why the organization that established itself as the leading automotive manufacturer in the world is so committed to this problematic technology.
As an intentional distraction Maybe
Look up Japan’s plan to harvest “fire ice”. It’s frozen methane found readily on the continental shelf in the waters off Japan. They’ve been convinced (probably by the petroleum companies that want to extract it for them) that it’s the key to Japan becoming energy independent. Methane to H2 conversion is easy and results in loads of CO2, but the tailpipe emissions are better than petro or methane. For now, Japan is importing H2 made from Australian brown coal and encouraging their automakers to get ready for a mature H2 infrastructure. It’s sad.
There was a hydrogen pilot with oregon clean cities in the drive clean rural program last year - not sure it went anywhere. Had partnership with toyota and loaned/demo cars.
That we did not know! thanks!
Even a CNG Honda is more versatile as you can at least fuel at home.
I have a 2012 Prius plug in, plug it into my front porch. Have to buy 7.5 gallons every 2months. Paid $10k five years ago,cash. 68,000 miles,rough paying less than 4 bucks a month for gas😂😂😂😂😂😂
Very funny perspective, I always stopped at their poor energy efficiency
They're still planning on replacing our natural gas busses with hydrogen.
They still haven't built the hydrogen electrolyzing plant yet, either. It was supposed to open before the Moss Landing grid battery...
Also, our hydrogen stations aren't on your map which makes me wonder how many others were built but never operated?
Where is that? And are your politicians actually that stupid?
Without actually looking at the video I'm gonna guess.... the Mirai. As a former Nexo owner... I sympathize.
Toyota investment into hydrogen fuel cells was a good idea to invest back in the early 00's.
Batteries were improving rather slowly compared to other technologies, so a BEV that can exceed over 100 miles was difficult, and required a lot of tradeoffs.
However near the end of that decade, Lithium Ion batteries, was a big game changer, where first it allowed Electronics makers to make reliable battery electronics with a long duty cycle, and doesn't fail so often, allowing for the likes of Apple to confidently make devices without removable batteries. When applied to electric cars, it allowed a breakthrough in range and reliability to a point where normal driving would not be a hassle, and more extreme ranges would be tolerable even without fast charging infrastructure.
It was a disruptive technology, in an industry that doesn't know how to deal with it. So Toyota is pulling a BlackBerry by basically just going on the idea that this is just a fad, offering some halfhearted me too models, while expecting the fad to end.
Charging at home is a HUGE convenience and feature of BEV that is often undersold even by EV fans.
Does the Mirai have the same problem as the BMW that it is impossible to keep the car leak free?
BMW had large stickers on their car stating not to park it in a garage (not even a parking structure) because of very explosive H2 leakage.
Or is that handled by a service check say every 10k miles?
Also the oxygen (note I did not say air) must be very pure for the chemical reaction to work efficiently. Fuel cell cars have many filters that use expensive materials to get the air clean (there was a campaign pointing out how a fuel cell car actively cleans the city once). The lower the purity the less efficient they become…
Those need replacing….
Curious if this is what people said when the original Tesla Roadster was made?
That Honda CRV OMG WTF BBQ looks like a decent idea ----- if Hydrogen fueling were available nationwide.
Not to mention that it was one fugly looking car. The latest conception is better but still funky. It is slow when driving & I believe you have to “vent it” after so many miles. There was years ago a documentary that showed folks filling their hydrogen cars but waiting in line to do so in summer because the pumps kept freezing up. This was in San Diego, Ca. Folks spent an average of 30 minutes. I’ll keep my low maintenance Tesla EV.
I do have thoughts but I wonder if I leave them below as you suggest, will I still have those thoughts. So I will just post some random blather here in hopes that the ewe-tube code likes them.
266... Hydrogen is only good for large vehicles, like semis. Keep Evolving Nikki!!!
Even then it makes no sense. It may make sense for aircraft where weight matters a lot more than overall energy consumption.
@@EUC-lid High pressure tanks are heavy as hell. Planes might use cryogenic hydrogen where they can use low pressure, super insulated tanks. Otherwise not gonna run on those 7 hour routes. Liquid H2 has been used on rockets. Not too successfully, but it's something.
There are quite a handful of problems around Hydrogen and its use in vehicles:
- 96% of the world's Hydrogen production is from steam reforming of coal, gas and crude oil. This process releases more emission than simply burning the stuff. No surprise it was heavily promoted by fossil fuel companies... "the future" of Greenwashing!
- Hydrogen electrolysis is an extremely inefficient process! With compression, transportation, the losses to the wheels, it all falls down to just 13-18% efficiency.
- 10 liters of freshwater are needed to produce 1 liter of hydrogen. The world already has severe freshwater problems and they want a few billion vehicles to waste vast amounts of drinking water?
- FC vehicles are slow and powerless thus the need for a battery pack.
- Safety concerns. You sit on a 700 bar pressure vessel. FC vehicles requires frequent maintenance and safety inspection. (for which you have to pay for).
- Hydrogen leaks from the WALLS of any container. It is the smallest atom after all... Can't be stored for long periods of time. A FC vehicle leaks 3-8% per day.
- FC vehicles have short service life. Fool cells have around 50,000 km life in them. Your main power source is a CONSUMABLE and lose power over time. Huge and expensive filters need to be frequently replaced.
- Hydrogen filling stations have a history of exploding and damaging whole neighborhoods.
- Hydrogen needs to be transported... just like gasoline. That introduces logistical difficulties, expenses and losses.
- The only option of filling a FC vehicle is... a non-existent filling station. You can't carry a bucket of hydrogen if you get stranded. Gasoline can easily be stored in a simple jerrycan and EVs can be charged anywhere there is a simple power outlet... Many EV have bidirectional charging or V2L and can help you "fill up".
Hydrogen was just a strategic product to lure customers away from EV... To keep them tied to a filling station, to a product they can't produce at home and have to buy every day... to a subscription they can't get away. And it was a way to continue the use of fossils but sell them as a "green" solution.
Yeah, but other than that
@@rp9674 Other than that... it is pretty useless. Unless you can live with the 80% losses.
Micheal Bernard covered it well on Electrify everything. The excess solar argument is very weak
How hard would it be for someone who knew what they were doing, to swap out the fuel cell with a regular battery pack
Software integration would be a nightmare. I'm sure the OEM software systems are well locked down, and I doubt there's enough of these vehicles to make it worth a hacker's time and effort to reverse-engineer and unlock them. It's an enormous job if you don't have OEM-level software access, which no one outside of Toyota will have.
Not to mention platinum. That's it. The metal rarer than gold is required to build a catalytic converter for hydrogen. Fuel cells are useful in spacecrafts, not for the masses who need them in the millions.
Is the Mokwheel final review coming soon?
Actually, it’s in edit. - Nikki
Hydrogen storage - pressure at almost twice the depth of the Titanic! Really?
I saw it flash by in the video "70MPa tanks".
The pressure down at the titanic is "only" 40Mpa and I can still remember the millisecond it took to collapse that submarine.
Would you wanna sit on that?
Wild...
6:39 "Full tank range you'd expect" when filling at home: Well, if you like me have a nickel heavy lithium battery (NCA or NMC) then you probably shouldn't want charge to full range at home on you battery EV, either. I keep my Tesla model Y plugged in at home and charged to 60%, which is enough charge for any likely daily need that I would have for my driving. Thus, even if the hypothetical Fat Cat hydrogen enthusiast could only gas up to 50% at home, that might be plenty for taking their Murai to the Opera or local Fight Club or whatever it is that rich people do around home for kicks.
I still think we're in a Now where H2 cars make no sense, even if you could tank them up at home.
The only reason to buy an early hydrogen vehicle, at this point, is for collector value. They're useless as daily drivers.
Are they paying $8500 to take it? Then it might be an OK deal.
Think antique. Sometimes they get more valuable.
14:30 Hydrogen is made 90% from methane gas called steam reforming. That means a hydrogen car still depends on fossil fuels.
Creating hydrogen by using renewable energy and electrolysis is 3 times as expensive.
Hydrogen will never make financial sense in personal cars.
I would be great to find a hydrogen to EV conversion available!
ack
Sir this is a Wendy's
3:41 the Toyota Rav4 electric, cool car, limited mileage but competent ... hmmm, weren't those electrified for Toyota by Tesla?
The Rav4 ev features in that old "Who killed the electric car" movie, I'm pretty sure of it.
Didn't that come out before Tesla was even a thing?
@@iandodds7826 I did a quick Wikipedia check. We are both right! :) The first version of the RAV 4 used a NiMH battery which evil Patent Pirates at ChevRot (eh,,, sorry Chevron) pretty much killed. The second version of the Rav 4 EV (2012-2014) was produced by a partnership between Tesla, Panasonic and Toyota.
@@iandodds7826 And BTW the lesson of the EV1 and Rav 4 is that if you invent something really cool, like say NiMH batteries, don't sell your patent to a company or person with a vested interest in killing the technology.
@slowercuber7767 Wow. I never ever thought such a partnership would have existed. Thanks for the info and correction. interesting. I didn't even know how many generations of rav4 evs there were.
@@iandodds7826 I didn’t either, and had been a bit confused on the topic. Wikipedia may be a flawed site, but lots of good data there. Not many of either the gen 1 (with NiMH) or the gen 2 (with lithium batteries) were made, though, so congrats to the folks who still have those historic EVs.
Why not use hydrogen to power electric generators for EV refuelling stations in remote areas where there is no electricity
By the time you get the hydrogen there, you've bought a power-line from the nearest grid connection point ... or you've bought a whole bunch of solar cells and a honkin' big battery.
Looks like hydrogen is at 30$/kg. So, like 200 dollars to go 300 miles. Ouch.
Sacramento is NOT in the San Francisco Bay Area!
U sure?
Not yet, but there are quite a few commuters on the ungodly early Capitol Corridor train.
I've never really watched so much B-roll of people using hydrogen filling stations. I noticed that in most of the clips, after mounting the filler nozzle and pulling the handle, the person tugs on it to check that it is secure. That suggests to me that there is an element of education happening in these videos. Which suggests that it is possible to incorrectly mount the filler nozzle and have either a massive leak or a flying handle. Which to me suggests that these fillers never got enough real-world testing or iterationis of development to become fool-proof. Even with gasoline nozzles, some older cars had oddly-oriented filler spouts and it was possible to just spray gasoline everywhere instead of getting it down the filler tube. I can absolutely imagine a scenario where someone incorrectly mounts an H2 nozzle, doesn't get a single molecule into their vehicle and then drives off. Or the nozzle flies back and strikes them or the control panel. EV chargers electro-mechanically locking into place was a much much better idea.
I never experienced anything like that when I had mine. You push it in until there's a loud click, and the collar moves down to lock it in. When done you pull up on the collar while pulling out the nozzle.
What was a problem sometimes was that a vacuum would form between the nozzle and the car's fuel receptacle, and I'd have to wait 10 minutes or so for the pressure to equalize. Happened maybe 2 or 3 times in the 3 years I had it and it scared the crap out of me each time.
Also there would often be frost on the receptacle when I took the nozzle off. Never caused a problem but I thought it was neat.
What? No vintage Mac content? (sigh)
Go full cycle, buy Mirai and engine swap it to a v6 or something.
Smog check free LS swap? lol
If Toyota is unwilling to help build uit the h2 fuel infrastructure, they should not be selling cars that rely on that infrastructure.
We can make clean hydrogen from abundant clean coal.
AAAAAACK
Hydrogen is so dumb.
It's stupid too
Without it, we wouldn't have sunlight. Or oceans.
We’re not talking about hydrogen’s existence.
@@jamesvandamme7786 that's beautiful
What is real?
Another clickbait chasing video ..?
Did you watch? And what are you claiming is clickbait?
I have no words Niki. We should give Toyota a credit they deserve: Mirai is a marvel of engineering excellence, a proof what humans can achieve! You should be ashamed blaming them for doing a stupid thing. This technology has future in trucks, pPHEVs or range extenders... as for EVs from Toyota- well I am a proud owner of Toyota PHEV and today I drove 20km to work with 8kw/100km which ultimately makes my car the most efficient on Earth... no wonder with 1500 kg weight... I do not need 2000kg model 3 to drive me 20km to work... I see future Electric, but I accept PHEVs and Hydrogen to be part of that transition because it makes sense...
Nope anything that moves at decent speed and distance including trucks should not be using H2 Fuel. H2 Fuel only makes sense confined to one property location. Really the best use of H2 is Industrial Heating & Burning processes. Distributing H2 fuel at a wide spread scale to highway capable vehicles is just too implausible. That has no future.
"2000kg model 3" At one point the old Long Range Model 3 only weighed 1750kg. Barely any different to a petrol F80 BMW. You are using Bogus Numbers.
FYI Current generation Toyota Prius Plug In has 1588kg curb weight. A Model 3 Long Range is just 162kg or 10% heavier. Blaming BEVs for having a weight a problem is just disingenuous when the weight difference is soo tiny. You should be ashamed for you intentional exaggeration.
In my opinion, the best use for hydrogen is as an industrial chemical-for some welding uses, iron smelting and so on.
💩
I hear you, but EV's Battery deteriorate fast and prices are going down faster than a lot of us can afford, in case we want to resell.
Batteries are lasting well over 200K miles, some examples of Tesla Model s on over 400 k miles on the original battery, only 2.5% EV on the road have had their batteries replaced, 1.5% newer than 2016. resell value is a bit chaotic i'd agree but it will settle down, and if you got for 2nd hand you're going to get a bargin
"EV's Battery deteriorate fast Absurd fear mongering nonsense.
"EV's Battery deteriorate fast" that is absurd lies.
EV prices are falling in part because the battery prices are falling, reducing the cost of manufacturing new EVs.
Does not really help the people with an aging EV that much: since the EV batteries are almost universally proprietary.
I am hoping after-market batteries will become available for common makes.
I am hoping solid state batteries will be available (extra energy in the same weight) by the time my 2011 Leaf needs it's third battery in 10 years.
Hydrogen destroys anything that tries to contain it. What's the lifespan of the hydrogen tank in a Mirai?