Someone calculated the return yields for different stars. 2 stars is most profitable for gold, while 3 stars is most profitable for SP. 4 stars on average breaks even for the amount of stuff you have to toss in. 5 stars devalues your gold
I wouldn’t say this devalues Anna’s economic contributions at all, if anything it means you should be able to afford more expensive forge upgrades and do more donations.
@@RNLee 100%, I haven't even wasted a ton of money donating and only have Brodia at 3- and money is still hard to come by. The well is kind of a band-aid, but a very appreciated one!
The problem with Anna is she has to actually KO something to just get a chance to do it, even if you are able to do that every single turn with her, which is unlikely, thats like 10 attempts on average on most maps (again, assuming you actuallypull off the KO every turn), and then when you do actually get an attempt, its a luck% chance, and her luck base is only 3 with a growth rate of 45%, so even after 10-12ish levels and a promotion its only on average a 10% chance per KO
@@ZzShy she power scales well mid-late when (most) promoted classes get her to have a 1 luck every 2 levels, as constantly just going she starts to get more and more value+the eventual emblems to boost her up even more, dlc does makes things a bit easier(21 luck at chapter 10 is funny), she needs investment but returns it if you actuall do
Having online features on makes having junk to throw in the well very easy to come by - just stand on the purple swirlies for well junk. Edit: 3 stars and up seems to have higher chance for SP books
I had this discussion how to optimize the Well. 2 stars you meet by throwing just an iron weapon or throw in 3x 1 use vulnerary + 1 meal, and it usually gives you back iron weapons, 1 to recycle back in the well and keep the profiting going, downside is that SP books are less and not many cool items. someone did the math on average profits: 2 Star = 1,000G / average gold & SP = 2100 & 225 3 star, throw in 5 irons, 1 use mend staves, or a combination of some steel weapons you don't use. Tier 3 = 5,000G / average gold & SP = 5320 & 450 Since your 1 use mend aren't worth as much, you still gained nearly the same gold profit but got twice the amount of SP on average, so 3 star seems more preferable than 2 stars. 1 use mend staves are actually worth 1000/20 = 50 gold so we actually put it 950 gold less for each 1 use Mend staves. Btw, with 3 star, it throws out some excess steel weapons worth 2k gold, you can recycle them back in the well to meet the 5k requirement in combination of some 1 use heal/mend/vulnerary/useless irons you have lying around etc. and keep the 3 star chain going
@@yggdra1477 but all the different items don’t add up to 100% of which you are guaranteed X items. Each item is it’s own separate roll. You get it or you don’t.
I tried and you can even do a level 1 Tempest Trial and your Somniel acts as if you have finished a mission. Thus you never have to leave the Somniel to start grinding this!
If you do a full round of Tempest Trials (win all 3 rounds), that counts as a "Battle", and should reset the Well (as well as the Arena and food buffs). So from Ch11 onwards, you should be able to just... grind. Grind for literal hours to get all the stuff you want from the well.
@@CuppaGi For me personally (Casual-Normal), it resets if i start a relay trial, finish my turns, send the data, then back out back to the Somniel. Probably a difficulty thing as shadowfate05 said, if you're on maddening.
Was burning through my Rescue staves on my maddening run. Put in 4 stars worth of items in the well and got 2 more 5-use Rescue staves after a battle. Lol I am reaallly loving this addition. Hoping to get warp staves next 😂
I pulled a master seal by dropping 4 star of items into the well. I wonder if there if there is any kind of save scumming you can do to fish for different items.
I’m on chapter 9 on my second play through, and using this advice I have 2 Adept Books and 3 novice books already (no DLC or online play) meaning I can get canter on pretty much any unit I want before chapter 10. Making it this easy to get skills that disappear for a good portion of the game definitely changes the viability of some of the Brodian units. Citrine with canter + dire thunder probably goes up a tier, Lapis can canter on her Wyvern before Kagetsu can (or get avoid +10 to be even dodgier), etc.
The Well is based on the money value (buy) of the five items. The tiers are O gold 1000 gold 5000 gold 10000 gold 20000 gold There's a data mined spreadsheet on what items are possible
I typically go for 3 stars and I've gotten a ton of SP books out of the well. Was able to get my Céline to 4193 SP (up from like 1100 or 1200) prior to the final battle just from dumping items into the well for like the last 6 chapters of the game. Why did I want so much SP? Was trying to go for Veronica's Mag/Dex +3 skill to make Céline even more Pog w/Ignis procs.
3 stars feels like the best the more I think about it. 4 stars would probably be optimal if your goal is to get the most SP from the well, but SP from three stars is probably good enough given that you'd get that at half the cost of four stars.
I think trying to get to 5k value each well phase is best. 3 star rewards are a lot better and more consistent than 2 star. buying mend staves and keeping them at 1 is likely a pretty good way to get there.
i think since in maddening theres so much sort of money and you may want to sell the old weapons anyway the biggest win seems to be the staves since if upgraded they get more uses and selling them is almost nothing anyway
yea i guess we got a new use for those 1 use heal/mend staves we got lying around, then buy some fresh new heal/mend staves to use up until the last durability and throw them into the well the next visit to the Well
In my post game save file, while trying to max out literally everything, I've been hitting 5 stars most of the time, going for 3-4 every few times just to replenish my inventory, but most of the time it spits out 3-4 high cost items that get you to 5 stars easily alongside plenty of SP books. I've gotten 1 speedwing from it too, but the point being that going for the 5 star ones also seems to just turn a profit, but with the chance of getting like 2k SP alongside your profit.
I'm using the well for an entire playthrough. I picked my characters at random, and then their class is to be determined by what the well spits out. Further, I cannot use any weapons or items save for one's received from the well. All other items are but fodder to be fed to it.
@meinman7591 So I'm not too far in yet, only sitting at Chapter 7. The characters I've got to work with so far are Weller(Alear), Clanne, Alfred, Louis, and Yunaka. Now that I have access to the well, my plan is to run some skirmishes to cycle some items through to start picking out classes. The only person with a chosen class thus far is Weller, a soon to be wyvern Knight based on the lance and axe you get as part of the well tutorial.
I'm convinced that this makes Anna's skill insanely busted. Before you can make the argument that well, it's just money, do you really need that much money. But now that money goes into buying silver for high tier Well pulls. I think if you do the maths it means over the course of the game Anna is earning you something like 2000-4000 SP plus assorted stat boosters. It's crazy.
Okay I did the maths. For a 4 star well you are earning an average of 775 SP for an average net cost of 3000 (10k buy in, 7k average output of weapons) = 0.26 SP/gp For a 5 star well you are earning 1100 SP for average net cost of 7100 = 0.155 SP/gp So 4 star Wells are better for SP, though of course maybe you value the chance of getting start boosters. For Anna, each point of luck on her is worth an average of 5 gp per kill. I.e. about 0.8 SP per kill for 5 stars, 1.3 SP for 4 stars. Just putting Byleth on her then equates to 9-16 additional points of SP per kill. An Anna with a career average of 30 luck is scoring about 23-40 (!!) additional SP per kill. Anna basically has Veronica's DLC SP gain skill, except free, better, and she can give those SP to other characters. I think Anna is conclusively SS tier now.
This game "kinda" needed a money making thing other than just using Anna. This game is tightwad with gold as it is. Oh, and at 4 stars I actually got 3 master seals and a legendary weapon, so yeah. The well is cool.
I only recently found that the bulletin board gives you bond fragments from the achievements by doing the third option in the menu. Just letting you know in case you weren't aware.
The well is busted. It would make a lot more sense to use the selling value of the item and rebalance the star values. Isn't that how these types of systems typically work in other games? You have junk or unused items and there's a way to get some value out of them with a rare chance at getting a lot more value. Getting more value pretty much every use just seems horribly balanced.
I feel like the well is meant to break the game so I could see this being done intentionally. It's not like they don't already have the value of the used item in the game already when you try to sell it. I think it's using the purchase price of the item, not the selling price.
super irrelevant but tier list 3.0 needs to have jade in trash tier i thought she’d make a good paladin but just gets doubled by literally everything. switched back to general and still trashh
I still vote Jade one of the worst Engage units, but this new update gave her a slight buff, she can now actually buy Canter without saving a paralogue/DLC map to get her the missing 200 SP before you lose the chance the very next map.
Unnecessary. Just send a maxxed out 300+ level Royal Knight Anna into a skirmish and get 10k per battle with her smashing everyone with a 55 Luck stat. The well is best suited to tossing the silver items into it with the limitless gold you get from Anna any time you want. 5 stars has got me loads of rainbow rewards and you never need to worry about money. Oh well... this game is busted in so many ways it's worth more playthroughs just to fuck with it.
Someone calculated the return yields for different stars. 2 stars is most profitable for gold, while 3 stars is most profitable for SP. 4 stars on average breaks even for the amount of stuff you have to toss in. 5 stars devalues your gold
BUT 5 stars is the only level that can drop the perma star boosters
@@conundrum60690 boots????
@@MayCryist I haven’t gotten one yet but apparently yes. Speedwing and dracoshield so far.
@@conundrum60690 it's more better to do online for them they fixed online u can now fine radium relay runs online now
@@ultmewtwo sorry is English your second language? Not sure I understand what you’re saying
It's absolutely pure upside. Let that well cook.
I would definitely let it cook over Vander.
@@brianwinters2285 I WAS JUST TRYING TO USE DIFFERENT UNITS DONALD LET VANDER COOK th-cam.com/video/9x9WB8WXsQg/w-d-xo.html
I wouldn’t say this devalues Anna’s economic contributions at all, if anything it means you should be able to afford more expensive forge upgrades and do more donations.
Especially when gold is still so damn hard to come by, in comparison to previous games.
I miss my Bullion drops, so much.
@@RNLee 100%, I haven't even wasted a ton of money donating and only have Brodia at 3- and money is still hard to come by. The well is kind of a band-aid, but a very appreciated one!
@@RNLee wave 4 be like- we fix the money issue now/j
The problem with Anna is she has to actually KO something to just get a chance to do it, even if you are able to do that every single turn with her, which is unlikely, thats like 10 attempts on average on most maps (again, assuming you actuallypull off the KO every turn), and then when you do actually get an attempt, its a luck% chance, and her luck base is only 3 with a growth rate of 45%, so even after 10-12ish levels and a promotion its only on average a 10% chance per KO
@@ZzShy she power scales well mid-late when (most) promoted classes get her to have a 1 luck every 2 levels, as constantly just going she starts to get more and more value+the eventual emblems to boost her up even more, dlc does makes things a bit easier(21 luck at chapter 10 is funny), she needs investment but returns it if you actuall do
I LOVE THIS GAME
You can just do the dragon ride , toss the 3 items she gives you into the well , and gets "upgraded" the next time you come back.
doing the dragon ride has an infinitely high cost on sanity
This will be huge if you can get more entrap and warp at high rank as well. Dropping in a 1 use warp to get a fresh warp back would be insane
You can definitely get staves, i got a warp and 2 fortifies in around 5 attempts
That’s fantastic. I got the candy Mend staff but didn’t know for sure high rank staves could be gotten
Can't wait to see the first Well Only Run, see how that fairs, and what limitations/exploits that will bring.
Having online features on makes having junk to throw in the well very easy to come by - just stand on the purple swirlies for well junk.
Edit: 3 stars and up seems to have higher chance for SP books
if only "connecting" didn't take so long.
Or just playing that rail shooting wyvern minigame, and toss all those consumables, profit 👌🏻
@@spikygamer987 I completely forgot that existed. I did it like one time and never went back. Thanks for the reminder!
@@sphyxsairiss the only reason someone would do them is for free Elixier/Resistance Potion. But just for that it's too much time investment.
@@sphyxsairiss
The well was just propaganda to play Worst Feature of the Somniel all along
I had this discussion how to optimize the Well.
2 stars you meet by throwing just an iron weapon or throw in 3x 1 use vulnerary + 1 meal, and it usually gives you back iron weapons, 1 to recycle back in the well and keep the profiting going, downside is that SP books are less and not many cool items.
someone did the math on average profits:
2 Star = 1,000G / average gold & SP = 2100 & 225
3 star, throw in 5 irons, 1 use mend staves, or a combination of some steel weapons you don't use.
Tier 3 = 5,000G / average gold & SP = 5320 & 450
Since your 1 use mend aren't worth as much, you still gained nearly the same gold profit but got twice the amount of SP on average, so 3 star seems more preferable than 2 stars. 1 use mend staves are actually worth 1000/20 = 50 gold so we actually put it 950 gold less for each 1 use Mend staves.
Btw, with 3 star, it throws out some excess steel weapons worth 2k gold, you can recycle them back in the well to meet the 5k requirement in combination of some 1 use heal/mend/vulnerary/useless irons you have lying around etc. and keep the 3 star chain going
Ancient "Pure Upside" Well
Amazing. Five star also has 1% chance for those stat booster but you need to spend 20k gold on the well.
I believe it is 1% per star booster. So 1% for a specific booster but 8% for any booster.
Err not exactly. 1% 8 times. Not the same as 8%
@@conundrum60690 yes it is in that Case. IT is just one pull
@@yggdra1477 but all the different items don’t add up to 100% of which you are guaranteed X items. Each item is it’s own separate roll. You get it or you don’t.
@@conundrum60690 is that how it works? So you could get each Item in one go theoretically? That's wild
Theres no downside to saving the two paralogues until you reach chapter 7 so you could benefit even more from using the well.
Just pure upside
I tried and you can even do a level 1 Tempest Trial and your Somniel acts as if you have finished a mission. Thus you never have to leave the Somniel to start grinding this!
LOL
That's crazy. It's too good 💀
What a great oversight by the dev team.
He did it he said the words!
You turned Alear into one of those passive income hustle culture accounts 😂
If you do a full round of Tempest Trials (win all 3 rounds), that counts as a "Battle", and should reset the Well (as well as the Arena and food buffs).
So from Ch11 onwards, you should be able to just... grind. Grind for literal hours to get all the stuff you want from the well.
And relay trials they take like 2 minutes
@@plsrember I've never had stuff reset doing relays. What are you doing to have it reset stuff?
Tempest Trials doesn't reset anything on maddening during the story
@@CuppaGi For me personally (Casual-Normal), it resets if i start a relay trial, finish my turns, send the data, then back out back to the Somniel. Probably a difficulty thing as shadowfate05 said, if you're on maddening.
Was burning through my Rescue staves on my maddening run. Put in 4 stars worth of items in the well and got 2 more 5-use Rescue staves after a battle. Lol I am reaallly loving this addition. Hoping to get warp staves next 😂
I pulled a master seal by dropping 4 star of items into the well. I wonder if there if there is any kind of save scumming you can do to fish for different items.
A quick guide on how to use the well well.
I’m on chapter 9 on my second play through, and using this advice I have 2 Adept Books and 3 novice books already (no DLC or online play) meaning I can get canter on pretty much any unit I want before chapter 10.
Making it this easy to get skills that disappear for a good portion of the game definitely changes the viability of some of the Brodian units. Citrine with canter + dire thunder probably goes up a tier, Lapis can canter on her Wyvern before Kagetsu can (or get avoid +10 to be even dodgier), etc.
The water from this well is pure and it's flow is that of upside
The Well is based on the money value (buy) of the five items. The tiers are
O gold
1000 gold
5000 gold
10000 gold
20000 gold
There's a data mined spreadsheet on what items are possible
It's so funny that they used the buy value regardless of uses remaining in regards to the staves.
I typically go for 3 stars and I've gotten a ton of SP books out of the well. Was able to get my Céline to 4193 SP (up from like 1100 or 1200) prior to the final battle just from dumping items into the well for like the last 6 chapters of the game. Why did I want so much SP? Was trying to go for Veronica's Mag/Dex +3 skill to make Céline even more Pog w/Ignis procs.
3 stars feels like the best the more I think about it. 4 stars would probably be optimal if your goal is to get the most SP from the well, but SP from three stars is probably good enough given that you'd get that at half the cost of four stars.
Farm relay trials and just dump all your tonics if you don't have staffs to burn as well lol
I think trying to get to 5k value each well phase is best. 3 star rewards are a lot better and more consistent than 2 star. buying mend staves and keeping them at 1 is likely a pretty good way to get there.
i think since in maddening theres so much sort of money and you may want to sell the old weapons anyway the biggest win seems to be the staves since if upgraded they get more uses and selling them is almost nothing anyway
yea i guess we got a new use for those 1 use heal/mend staves we got lying around,
then buy some fresh new heal/mend staves to use up until the last durability and throw them into the well the next visit to the Well
I never knew you could upgrade staves...
@@lanceareadbhar It has justo been added It wasnt there before
i managed to get two stacks of rescue staves with just a 4 star, so getting more warp staffs from the well is probably also possibly
In my post game save file, while trying to max out literally everything, I've been hitting 5 stars most of the time, going for 3-4 every few times just to replenish my inventory, but most of the time it spits out 3-4 high cost items that get you to 5 stars easily alongside plenty of SP books. I've gotten 1 speedwing from it too, but the point being that going for the 5 star ones also seems to just turn a profit, but with the chance of getting like 2k SP alongside your profit.
I think 4 stars would be more optimal personally unless you can hit 5 stars every time.
If you have a bunch of iron weapons from online you can drop them into the well and get 3 star I did with lots of iron swords
I'm using the well for an entire playthrough. I picked my characters at random, and then their class is to be determined by what the well spits out. Further, I cannot use any weapons or items save for one's received from the well. All other items are but fodder to be fed to it.
tell us how it goes!
@meinman7591 So I'm not too far in yet, only sitting at Chapter 7. The characters I've got to work with so far are Weller(Alear), Clanne, Alfred, Louis, and Yunaka. Now that I have access to the well, my plan is to run some skirmishes to cycle some items through to start picking out classes. The only person with a chosen class thus far is Weller, a soon to be wyvern Knight based on the lance and axe you get as part of the well tutorial.
Now vander can REALLY cook now with this mechanic.
That's nice to know for my Fourth playthrough thanks 👍
you gonna talk about that one op veronica skill thats the best to inherit in the game?
We are sending our love down the well.
You can even throw the meals you get from the dinning hall lol
Nothing will go to waste thanks to the recycle center
Is this feature locked behind the paywall, by the way?
No I call it the DLC well because anything that makes the game easier I associate with DLC subconsciously, it is a free update
it’s the fountain of eternal upside
Business is business, smol Anna would agree lol
Is there a reason as to why my well isn’t working? Is it due to not having the dlc?
You need to talk to the armorer dude after going to it initially
@@IcedCoffeeGaming I so appreciate it this!
Been waiting for this video
I'm convinced that this makes Anna's skill insanely busted. Before you can make the argument that well, it's just money, do you really need that much money. But now that money goes into buying silver for high tier Well pulls.
I think if you do the maths it means over the course of the game Anna is earning you something like 2000-4000 SP plus assorted stat boosters. It's crazy.
Okay I did the maths.
For a 4 star well you are earning an average of 775 SP for an average net cost of 3000 (10k buy in, 7k average output of weapons) = 0.26 SP/gp
For a 5 star well you are earning 1100 SP for average net cost of 7100 = 0.155 SP/gp
So 4 star Wells are better for SP, though of course maybe you value the chance of getting start boosters.
For Anna, each point of luck on her is worth an average of 5 gp per kill. I.e. about 0.8 SP per kill for 5 stars, 1.3 SP for 4 stars.
Just putting Byleth on her then equates to 9-16 additional points of SP per kill. An Anna with a career average of 30 luck is scoring about 23-40 (!!) additional SP per kill. Anna basically has Veronica's DLC SP gain skill, except free, better, and she can give those SP to other characters.
I think Anna is conclusively SS tier now.
It prints money if only we had a dlc well in real life
Try throwing in uneaten lunches.
Yeah, but they're still only 50 gold, so they're not much help if you're struggling to meet the gold-value bar in the first place
@@PurpleShift42
It's not about the value, it's about throwing their lunch in the well
Well, well, well.
This game "kinda" needed a money making thing other than just using Anna. This game is tightwad with gold as it is.
Oh, and at 4 stars I actually got 3 master seals and a legendary weapon, so yeah. The well is cool.
nice vid
The game is very criminal with resources, SP, gold, bond fragments, it was time they threw a bone
I only recently found that the bulletin board gives you bond fragments from the achievements by doing the third option in the menu. Just letting you know in case you weren't aware.
But if you throw junk like that in you won't be gaining lots of sp books. Don't think getting money from the well is worth it.
You got a mend for nothing literally nothing was lost on that well I'm so breaking this game once more
It's just free upside, clearly!
The well is busted. It would make a lot more sense to use the selling value of the item and rebalance the star values. Isn't that how these types of systems typically work in other games? You have junk or unused items and there's a way to get some value out of them with a rare chance at getting a lot more value.
Getting more value pretty much every use just seems horribly balanced.
Even if you gain an extra 2k every mission that's not that amazing? 🤔
Pure upside
Love your videos!
I can’t stop playing this game and it’s ruining my life 💀 lol
I feel like the well is meant to break the game so I could see this being done intentionally. It's not like they don't already have the value of the used item in the game already when you try to sell it. I think it's using the purchase price of the item, not the selling price.
You know due to how garbage the economy of this game is
Nah the well doesnt feel criminal
super irrelevant but tier list 3.0 needs to have jade in trash tier i thought she’d make a good paladin but just gets doubled by literally everything. switched back to general and still trashh
we need a new tier list every maddening run
I still vote Jade one of the worst Engage units, but this new update gave her a slight buff, she can now actually buy Canter without saving a paralogue/DLC map to get her the missing 200 SP before you lose the chance the very next map.
yeah she is just Louis with worse defense, which is just terrible.
Unnecessary.
Just send a maxxed out 300+ level Royal Knight Anna into a skirmish and get 10k per battle with her smashing everyone with a 55 Luck stat. The well is best suited to tossing the silver items into it with the limitless gold you get from Anna any time you want. 5 stars has got me loads of rainbow rewards and you never need to worry about money.
Oh well... this game is busted in so many ways it's worth more playthroughs just to fuck with it.
Skirmishes are extremely rare on Maddening.
@@lanceareadbhar That's why you use the internal clock. It's not rocket science.