Please pray for me. I am leaving a Oneness Pentecostal church in pursuit of an orthodox church. I've only been to a divine liturgy once, and even though i didn't know what was going on and didn't know what anyone was saying or doing, i did know they were giving God the most proper worship. And it felt right. It felt like i was home, and I've been wanting to go back.
@@T_Wozna This is a very important point. I am pleased that you made it. No one uses Mary of Egypt's example to establish a fasting norm for many years. I knew a man who only accepted invitations to the home of one of the Ukrainian ladies of our former parish during Lent. With a wink, he told me that he didn't even like Calf tongue with mayonnaise but knew that he couldn't turn it down if offered... it was always offered!
It's not supposed to be easy. We are fasting as a small sacrifice in remembrance of our Lord who gave the ultimate sacrifice. It also gives us the chance to look at food differently---as basic sustenance to be thankful for, instead of looking at it with lust and gluttony. It also gives us the opportunity to get creative with food and learn new recipes and traditions, as well as learning to eat healthier and show more reverence for the temples that God has blessed us with. An increasing attitude of gratitude for the simple things in life brings us much spiritual benefit. Matthew 6:16-18 (KJV) "Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face; That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly."
Part of the issue with modern western orthodoxy is that we are imposing vastly different cultures upon ourselves, which means we have to discard so many of the very few good things of our culture. We need to synthesize, as the past Christians did, and not treat tradition as a binding force with a specific form. All our holidays change and our only feasts become Orthodox feasts, according the calendars vastly different cultures from ours had made.
Sob quietly in the corner trying to avoid eye contact with the mac and cheese 😅 good insights, Father! I'm not American but plan to spend Thanksgiving there at some point, so this is useful to me.
@@OrthodoxRachelExactly. First, convert them to Orthodoxy, and then reschedule Thanksgiving 😂 JK JK. I appreciated hearing how his thoughts guide us toward temperance and sobriety in our fasting and how to consider being hospitable to our family and those around us. The thinking and behavior is so much deeper than just "eating" or "not eating" in a juridical way. I want to be saved by Christ, and fasting is a gift to bring us into salvation in Christ.
Most jurisdictions that celebrate on the new calendar have a dispensation from their bishop to “break the fast” on Thanksgiving day. So if you are visiting anybody from one of those orthodox churches, you won’t have to worry about whether to abstain or not.
Christ is among us! Greetings Father! My mission parish, of course wanted to know about this and so I punted lol. I punted to our Bishop lol. He said that some people from other diocese/jurisdictions practice some different things, but we… We fast. So in our parish this coming Sunday at our usual potluck meal we’re having everything we would have on Thanksgiving and enjoying some time together as Christian family. Come Wednesday we’ll be fasting lol. Glory to God in all these things. -Fr. Theodore ☦️🦃☦️
If I could make it over to you Father I would. But I have moved to the New Calendar so we are fasting. I pray all is well over there. IC, Reader Raphael
@@family6041 It benefits us to maintain the Fast to the best of our abilities. If this means moving a secular Holiday, may it be blessed. Father's Bishop is my Bishop and he is very wise.
I'm from Cyprus. Cradle orthodox. We have a national holiday of April 1st which is usually a day during Lent. People who don't fast will celebrate and make lunches. I go there, but only eat what my fast allows. It's not rude. You can eat salad. You can eat potatoes. A lot of things. Most I give in is Oil. I think it's an excuse, speaking from my experience. But I understand the question. God bless
Our Bishop blessed us to eat what we would like on Thanksgiving. Prior to that, my priest has always told us to accept food during the Holidays that is offered to us and not be rude.
Our priest extended the same to us. He had a good point, thanksgiving is just that a day when we as American's spend time be thankful what we have. He said that being Thankful is a Christian virtue
@ A Christian virtue, I love that! I’m really thankful for this because I would be very unsettled if I was expected to refuse my families food. I know that’s never the expectation (at least that I’ve seen), but I’m just really thankful that it’s not. Happy Thanksgiving, friend! Enjoy ☺️
Do not make fasting a stumbling block to others. That is an important point. Let us not over think the true meaning of the fasts and that is to have our mind on God and his ways. Just as we should eat to satisfaction to curb hunger, we should guage ourselves and our family when we fast. We also then move right back. Consult your spiritual father on it in general and pray.
i really liked what you said about there being more reason for you to fast if its easy to fast. that really hit home for me and im gonna try to do it more
I only have my sister and her husband left and she has recently started coming to church with me. They agreed to have Thanksgiving on the Saturday before the fast begins so I don't have to worry about being tempted to violate it.
I just came across your channel. I really appreciate the overlying message here. It's always been a balancing act every year since converting in 2017. We would every time try to limit ourselves while also not being rude. Family didn't understand. I struggled with feelings of being sanctimonious and didn't want to appear better or more pious. Sometimes, we took some meat, but a small amount without seconds. I can't say it's been easy on a different calendar, Christmas especially... Everyone gorging when there's two weeks left for us and all the family get togethers. But I remind myself that they haven't had any real deprivation. Sure, might be some exceptional cookies and expensive meat, but do they appreciate it and as grateful? I was raised Roman Catholic and what I remembered about lent was we ate better. Every Friday during lent we went out to eat at a restaurant which was quite a luxury for us and had seafood, lobster, and fish fries. I never understood any significance of a sacrifice. It was an actual ritual to go spend lots of money we didn't have just to be showy how we weren't having certain meat. Instead, we were eating something much more expensive and fancy because we were "pious". Let me tell you, I nearly lost my faith before finding Orthodoxy. This doesn't work other than it's a particular tradition. Not Godly tradition, but my family hasn't followed us in our conversion because it's different from their ideas and tradition. And I understand because fasting is hard. But it's harder when people who love you make a big deal about it for contention. Sometimes it's better not to fight that battle and just skip your favorite meal items and compromise. Don't draw attention to your fasting, talk with your priest about it later. Accept the love and hospitality, but still give yourself some limits quietly. Never for piety and attention.
Just to add, now this is going to sound really bad, but I am convinced family will deliberately sabotage efforts. Is it the devil influencing? Not always. Sometimes it's just that people don't like to see someone controlling themselves because they can't or don't. I have grace for that. We just have to keep trying and struggling the best we can up that hill to crucifixion. But without hurting loved ones in the process if we can. I think love is the pre-eminent focus. Never used as an excuse to eat whatever, wherever...but love each other also. It's not what enters the mouth that is unclean, but what comes out of it. But have some boundaries and rules and self control. Limits are necessary. You don't grow without it. Taste a bite of grandma's turkey if it means the world to her. Just quietly restrict yourself in some other growing way.
To all those recently converted, you're not alone. This topic is a very difficult thing. Just do your best with the guidance of a priest and remember it's not a sprint, it's a marathon of a whole life. There are times you walk or even have to rest. Just keep going and you get better at it. To hurt loved ones in the process is not a benefit to God. Wisdom is knowing what to do in these situations. A good priest will be able to help guide you. I know there's a lot of new converts out there, and I think it's amazing! It's not easy, but it's the right path to aim towards. No one is perfect at these things except the holiest saints. Just keep in trying to follow the compass we have in Jesus Christ, in the Holy Spirit, from the Father. You'll be ok
Your family is 10000x more important than these silly fasting rules. The Apostle Paul says that you are to take care of your own first and foremost, and condemns those who obsess about fasting calendars.
I had a priest tell me that western fasting was once more focused on portion control than abstaining from dairy and meat. He said there is a movement to allow fasting more along the lines of portion control in America. Part of the reasoning was that the byzantine fast with the America diet can be more unhealthy compared to the byzantine fast with a Mediterranean diet. I honestly think limiting intake versus certain ingredients would be more spiritually corrective here in America.
...Our parish...I was pretty sure by authority of our Bishop, relaxes the fast for the feast day that Thanksgiving has been incorporated into the Liturgical calendar as. Is that just because we're OCA or what?
Yes, I believe OCA (at least in the diocese of the South) has a general dispensation to feast on Thanksgiving. Our Cathedral hosts a big communal thanksgiving meal after Thanksgiving Day Liturgy. Though usually we have salmon or other fish on hand for those who prefer to hold a more strict fast.
I’m antiochian and we have a dispensation for Thanksgiving. My priest says we should honor and keep one of the last genuinely Christian holidays of our country. But he also reminds all the mothers of the parish that it’s a dispensation for that day. It’s not an excuse to make lots of extra food and then say the next day, “oh well, we made all this extra food, better not let it go to waste.” I assume it’s a new calendar thing to have a dispensation for Thanksgiving, especially since it always lands during the fast for us.
@@micahwatz1148 you quote something you do not understand. Certainly fasting in of itself does not save but the Lord said that when the bridegroom leaves then we will fast. Do you remember that quote? The Lord also told us regarding "this kind" does not come out except by prayer and fasting. It was not only referring to the demon possessed boy but also our embedded passions. Just quoting Bible verses does not get rid of your passions. You have to understand all of the Bible not just certain texts in a certain way, away which often has no understanding of the church, and her culture. Fasting has always been part of Christian tradition because it works. It is probably not part of your tradition because your tradition only has the Bible and not the church who wrote it. We are self-indulgent people and when we curb our self-indulgence, we can feel God better. It's not because God rewards us, as if we have to check a box, but because our nature is that when we are self-indulgent we are blind to who God is. May God lead you to a full understanding of the bible, and the church who wrote it, which includes this selection: "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. 19 They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow. 20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence"
Our bishop gives us dispensation for Thanksgiving. That said, he did not say gorge yourselves. This is an interesting discussion, regardless. Also, what good is fasting from meat/dairy if you fill up on starches/veggies/lobster…?
Fr. Seraphim is a ROCOR priest and follows the Old Calendar (Julian calendar) which is about 13 days behind the Gregorian calendar that most people in the world use. I would ask your priest about it.
I kinda ripped the bandage off pretty quick. And I was kinda like, no i can't go to the Roman Catholic church with you, no I'm fasting right now, i can't eat that. Its the best method. People get over it quick enough. That's the only way you're not going to be stuck explaining yourself all the time and negotiating your beliefs.
So is it possible for the Orthodox church to adjust their fasting requirements based on newer nutrition science that shows that eating meat is better for your health that eating carbohydrates?
Fasting in the orthodox chruch isn’t about health, we still eat meat and oils but not all the time. When we aren’t allowed to eat meat that doesn’t mean we replace it with more carbs, especially if it’s the super processed stuff
And what will the newest nutrition science say in 2060? 2120? Who knows. Daniel and friends refused the meat and wine offered to idols and ate vegetables, and they became healthier than any others. Extenuating circumstances, yes, but I don’t think we can just write it off as 100% contrary to nutrition science. God also originally created us to eat fruits and veggies. He gave us animals for food too for this time, and we’ve even bred fruits and veggies to be worse for us (look up ancient watermelon or bananas for example) but not all carbs are created equal either. A lot even depends on the soil it’s grown in. Just like grass fed and finished meat and butter vs grain fed, you can’t get blood from a turnip or nutrients from the soil that aren’t there
@@antibritish_anarchsim1547 Yes I understand that fasting isn't strictly about health. But health is actually important so if you're required to eat in an unhealthy manner for much of the year then I think that's bad.
@@WizardOfTheDesert there is plenty of science that shows there are significant benefits to fasting. We only fast for about half the year at most. You’re not going to be lacking in nutrition just because you gave up meat every other day of the year. And there are plenty enough of those fasting days when fish is allowed, which is also very healthy to eat. Please consider all available information before worrying yourself over something so trivial as this.
I’m not orthodox yet but I’m trying to take part of the practices like fasting and I found out orthodox fasts on Wednesday and fridays so I started doing that so I’m confused as to why fasting is on Thursday could someone explain?
The Nativity fast is 40 days, and includes all those days, in a row. Most years, it begins, for those who follow the Old Caelendar, after Thanksgiving, but some years, it occurs during the fast. This is one of those years.
Adding dietary restrictions on top of this is just another layer of spiritual confusion. I cant eat bread/gluten which is a staple and is in basically every fasting food. It makes it hard to interpret which is the right decision, because for me i dont have the option of just eating bread at Thanksgiving or whatever. I feel like im capable of denying myself. But trying to adhere to the fasting rules without bread is much more than the fathers would ever have to deal with. Thats like the highest of ascetics who only subsisted on wild mushrooms and herbs and raw fruit/vegetables, and i am not that strong.
@orthodoxnet Thank you. I know my circumstances don't invalidate the ascetic purpose of fasting. It really is just a struggle being at peace with the dietary component of the fast and accepting my circumstances, because it grieves me that I can't adhere to the traditional restrictions. Though from what I've observed, that doesn't stop those who can keep the fasting rules from eating too much, or not fasting from other senses. I try my best to make up for my (perceived, according to the Church rules) diet concessions, with my eyes and ears, and with abstaining from entertainment and luxuries (coffee, TV) and other such things. I'm still new at this, I hope I will be more at peace and able to experience the joyous fast at some point down the line. Right now it's just struggle, and trying not to aggrieve myself for being an exception.
I thought we were not under the law…so we gave up God’s law for the traditions of men…these modern traditions of men require 210 days of fasting a year…God’s law never placed these “ heavy burdens” upon his people, in fact he spoke against it…no trouble eating pork or shrimp or lobster, however…the religion that claims it has never changed in 2,000 years, has added many heavy burdens onto the faithful…the new Pharisees…
CHRIST IS RISEN Christmas this year is January 6th and Nativity fast of Apostle Philip begins on Thanksgiving showing the Julian calendar and Gregorian in a very bitter sweet way telling all Orthodox faithful to become only on one feast and truly on the narrow path. New calendar lacks grace but the schematic old calendar sects are psyops from the ecumenists who made the new calendar change.
I cannot type inflection so as a disclaimer I will say: I mean this in a friendly way. Why is the Orthodox Church telling its American parishioners to be annoying on Thanksgiving? 😜 There is no Biblical reason to fast on Thanksgiving 🦃🥧. God smiles upon us when we engage in loving fellowship, that is the whole point of Thanksgiving 🥰. Fasting is between an individual and the Lord, anyways, other people should not even know you are doing it. We really should not be making a show of fasting or prayer 😇. At least that is what God says, I think.
Are you purporting for cheating on a fast day because of a get together? Ought everyone cheat on Thanksgiving and all other possible get togethers or else they lack self awareness? Fr is telling us here to do what we can and to perfect our practice in asceticism according to our level, do you disagree?
Gluttony is always a dilemma. Did you listen to the video? I doubt you understood it. You should always be able to restrain yourself. Eating a little may be the right thing to do. Eating a lot, with two helpings of pie, etc, on a fast day, is self-indulgence and is toxic. You may find a way to give yourself permission, but you are losing an opportunity for spiritual sobriety.
The trope about not offending people only works at the beginning. If you are stuck at grandma's house year two after conversion and you don't know how to handle yourself, you have not made progress. If you keep trying to avoid offending man, you will end up offending God. As far as I know, there is no blessing to "not fast". Even a right-believing bishop cannot bless "not fasting". He can only relax the rules to include fish, wine, or oil. However, it takes an episcopal blessing. If you break the fast, confess it. But don't plan to do so and certainly don't excuse and attempt to justify it.
@@family6041 Thank you for the questions. 1. Planning to break the fast is a sin to confess. 2. I am a priest. How others fast is my business. As a peacemaker, it is my job to help people know what pleases God. 3. All Christians are obliged to fast. There is nothing contrary about my mentioning that. 4. Did I "spit out" anything? Did I call you names? Did I accuse you of pride or being Jewish? Let's be reasonable. BTW, Is there anything about what I said you would like to find fault with? The manner of your comment is a very worn-out attack rather than a response.
@whitemakesright2177 This statement is a variation of another statement made long ago, "yea, hath God truly said...". We don't pit His commandments against love because love is the fulfillment of the Law.
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Please pray for me. I am leaving a Oneness Pentecostal church in pursuit of an orthodox church. I've only been to a divine liturgy once, and even though i didn't know what was going on and didn't know what anyone was saying or doing, i did know they were giving God the most proper worship. And it felt right. It felt like i was home, and I've been wanting to go back.
God Bless welcome home ☦
@@herpderp3426 there are Orthodox churches that speak English
Saint John Chrysostom made the point that if you are offered non fasting food accept it without complaint and eat enough to not be rude
The fast is ultimately for our own heart/spirit. More than a wedge. But abstaining or limiting intake can be a witness. Talk to your spiritual father.
This isn’t a once for all rule for the Church. How else do you explain saints who refused meat and that was considered a confession of Faith?
Where did Chrysostom speak of this I’d like to read it
@@T_Wozna This is a very important point. I am pleased that you made it. No one uses Mary of Egypt's example to establish a fasting norm for many years. I knew a man who only accepted invitations to the home of one of the Ukrainian ladies of our former parish during Lent. With a wink, he told me that he didn't even like Calf tongue with mayonnaise but knew that he couldn't turn it down if offered... it was always offered!
@@T_Wozna The "Church tradition" is a mishmash of mutually contradictory ideas.
Our Parish is having a full Thanksgiving potluck this Sunday before, so that's how we're handling it.
That’s how our Parish does it as well.
Best talk I've ever heard on fasting, thanks for the wisdom, father.
what it ultimately comes down to is that being orthodox in a non-orthodox country isnt easy
it does not get any easier in orthodox county as well
@Sever3dHead when it comes to fasting, it absolutely does. i've been to the balkans
@@ChristopherAnderson-e5o nop, still many folk celebrations and folk traditions that people celebrate falls onto the fast days
@@Sever3dHead you're wasting your time arguing with me, i lived over there. i know what i'm talking about. go find something productive to do
It's not supposed to be easy. We are fasting as a small sacrifice in remembrance of our Lord who gave the ultimate sacrifice. It also gives us the chance to look at food differently---as basic sustenance to be thankful for, instead of looking at it with lust and gluttony. It also gives us the opportunity to get creative with food and learn new recipes and traditions, as well as learning to eat healthier and show more reverence for the temples that God has blessed us with. An increasing attitude of gratitude for the simple things in life brings us much spiritual benefit.
Matthew 6:16-18 (KJV) "Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;
That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly."
Part of the issue with modern western orthodoxy is that we are imposing vastly different cultures upon ourselves, which means we have to discard so many of the very few good things of our culture. We need to synthesize, as the past Christians did, and not treat tradition as a binding force with a specific form. All our holidays change and our only feasts become Orthodox feasts, according the calendars vastly different cultures from ours had made.
If you are chained to the idea that you must give thanks, during a fast, with non-fasting food, you do not understand thanks or fasting.
Sob quietly in the corner trying to avoid eye contact with the mac and cheese 😅 good insights, Father! I'm not American but plan to spend Thanksgiving there at some point, so this is useful to me.
Just do thanksgiving on another day🤣
@@RunninUpThatHillh I don't think it's polite to ask an entire family of people to reschedule their holiday to suit me unfortunately :p
Just eat beans and rice
@@OrthodoxRachelExactly. First, convert them to Orthodoxy, and then reschedule Thanksgiving 😂 JK JK. I appreciated hearing how his thoughts guide us toward temperance and sobriety in our fasting and how to consider being hospitable to our family and those around us. The thinking and behavior is so much deeper than just "eating" or "not eating" in a juridical way. I want to be saved by Christ, and fasting is a gift to bring us into salvation in Christ.
Most jurisdictions that celebrate on the new calendar have a dispensation from their bishop to “break the fast” on Thanksgiving day. So if you are visiting anybody from one of those orthodox churches, you won’t have to worry about whether to abstain or not.
Christ is among us! Greetings Father!
My mission parish, of course wanted to know about this and so I punted lol. I punted to our Bishop lol. He said that some people from other diocese/jurisdictions practice some different things, but we… We fast. So in our parish this coming Sunday at our usual potluck meal we’re having everything we would have on Thanksgiving and enjoying some time together as Christian family. Come Wednesday we’ll be fasting lol. Glory to God in all these things.
-Fr. Theodore ☦️🦃☦️
God is good ❤☦️🙏
If I could make it over to you Father I would.
But I have moved to the New Calendar so we are fasting.
I pray all is well over there.
IC,
Reader Raphael
God bless! This is not rocket science. Many will have a feast this weekend, and this is God-pleasing.
@@family6041
It benefits us to maintain the Fast to the best of our abilities. If this means moving a secular Holiday, may it be blessed.
Father's Bishop is my Bishop and he is very wise.
I'm from Cyprus. Cradle orthodox. We have a national holiday of April 1st which is usually a day during Lent. People who don't fast will celebrate and make lunches. I go there, but only eat what my fast allows. It's not rude. You can eat salad. You can eat potatoes. A lot of things. Most I give in is Oil. I think it's an excuse, speaking from my experience. But I understand the question. God bless
Thank you for your wisdom Father
Our Bishop blessed us to eat what we would like on Thanksgiving. Prior to that, my priest has always told us to accept food during the Holidays that is offered to us and not be rude.
Our priest extended the same to us. He had a good point, thanksgiving is just that a day when we as American's spend time be thankful what we have. He said that being Thankful is a Christian virtue
@ A Christian virtue, I love that! I’m really thankful for this because I would be very unsettled if I was expected to refuse my families food. I know that’s never the expectation (at least that I’ve seen), but I’m just really thankful that it’s not. Happy Thanksgiving, friend! Enjoy ☺️
Same for us here in NY. Vladika Michael is very understanding and kind
I'm fasting 48 hrs. the weekend before. TG. day it's Carb-a-Palooza time.
Do not make fasting a stumbling block to others. That is an important point. Let us not over think the true meaning of the fasts and that is to have our mind on God and his ways. Just as we should eat to satisfaction to curb hunger, we should guage ourselves and our family when we fast. We also then move right back. Consult your spiritual father on it in general and pray.
Thank you Father. I appreciate all you taught us.
i really liked what you said about there being more reason for you to fast if its easy to fast. that really hit home for me and im gonna try to do it more
I only have my sister and her husband left and she has recently started coming to church with me. They agreed to have Thanksgiving on the Saturday before the fast begins so I don't have to worry about being tempted to violate it.
Thank you Father
I just came across your channel. I really appreciate the overlying message here. It's always been a balancing act every year since converting in 2017. We would every time try to limit ourselves while also not being rude. Family didn't understand. I struggled with feelings of being sanctimonious and didn't want to appear better or more pious. Sometimes, we took some meat, but a small amount without seconds. I can't say it's been easy on a different calendar, Christmas especially... Everyone gorging when there's two weeks left for us and all the family get togethers. But I remind myself that they haven't had any real deprivation. Sure, might be some exceptional cookies and expensive meat, but do they appreciate it and as grateful? I was raised Roman Catholic and what I remembered about lent was we ate better. Every Friday during lent we went out to eat at a restaurant which was quite a luxury for us and had seafood, lobster, and fish fries. I never understood any significance of a sacrifice. It was an actual ritual to go spend lots of money we didn't have just to be showy how we weren't having certain meat. Instead, we were eating something much more expensive and fancy because we were "pious". Let me tell you, I nearly lost my faith before finding Orthodoxy. This doesn't work other than it's a particular tradition. Not Godly tradition, but my family hasn't followed us in our conversion because it's different from their ideas and tradition. And I understand because fasting is hard. But it's harder when people who love you make a big deal about it for contention. Sometimes it's better not to fight that battle and just skip your favorite meal items and compromise. Don't draw attention to your fasting, talk with your priest about it later. Accept the love and hospitality, but still give yourself some limits quietly. Never for piety and attention.
Just to add, now this is going to sound really bad, but I am convinced family will deliberately sabotage efforts. Is it the devil influencing? Not always. Sometimes it's just that people don't like to see someone controlling themselves because they can't or don't. I have grace for that. We just have to keep trying and struggling the best we can up that hill to crucifixion. But without hurting loved ones in the process if we can. I think love is the pre-eminent focus. Never used as an excuse to eat whatever, wherever...but love each other also. It's not what enters the mouth that is unclean, but what comes out of it. But have some boundaries and rules and self control. Limits are necessary. You don't grow without it. Taste a bite of grandma's turkey if it means the world to her. Just quietly restrict yourself in some other growing way.
To all those recently converted, you're not alone. This topic is a very difficult thing. Just do your best with the guidance of a priest and remember it's not a sprint, it's a marathon of a whole life. There are times you walk or even have to rest. Just keep going and you get better at it. To hurt loved ones in the process is not a benefit to God. Wisdom is knowing what to do in these situations. A good priest will be able to help guide you. I know there's a lot of new converts out there, and I think it's amazing! It's not easy, but it's the right path to aim towards. No one is perfect at these things except the holiest saints. Just keep in trying to follow the compass we have in Jesus Christ, in the Holy Spirit, from the Father. You'll be ok
Your family is 10000x more important than these silly fasting rules. The Apostle Paul says that you are to take care of your own first and foremost, and condemns those who obsess about fasting calendars.
Legit need this because I'm having Thanksgiving with my Roman Catholic family
Russian Orthodox having their Christmas on 7th of Jan and the _most_ celebrated secular holiday - New Year a week before that: "First time? ;-)".
Do you follow a different calendar? The Church I have been going to the fast starts on the 15th?
There are some Old Calendar churches that the days are 14 behind the New Calendar.
@@totesmuhgoats4287 13 days, not 14
Limiting intake is akin to fasting
I had a priest tell me that western fasting was once more focused on portion control than abstaining from dairy and meat. He said there is a movement to allow fasting more along the lines of portion control in America. Part of the reasoning was that the byzantine fast with the America diet can be more unhealthy compared to the byzantine fast with a Mediterranean diet. I honestly think limiting intake versus certain ingredients would be more spiritually corrective here in America.
what saint said that?
Amen
...Our parish...I was pretty sure by authority of our Bishop, relaxes the fast for the feast day that Thanksgiving has been incorporated into the Liturgical calendar as. Is that just because we're OCA or what?
Yes, I believe OCA (at least in the diocese of the South) has a general dispensation to feast on Thanksgiving. Our Cathedral hosts a big communal thanksgiving meal after Thanksgiving Day Liturgy. Though usually we have salmon or other fish on hand for those who prefer to hold a more strict fast.
I’m antiochian and we have a dispensation for Thanksgiving. My priest says we should honor and keep one of the last genuinely Christian holidays of our country. But he also reminds all the mothers of the parish that it’s a dispensation for that day. It’s not an excuse to make lots of extra food and then say the next day, “oh well, we made all this extra food, better not let it go to waste.”
I assume it’s a new calendar thing to have a dispensation for Thanksgiving, especially since it always lands during the fast for us.
Colossians 2:16-23
@@micahwatz1148 you quote something you do not understand. Certainly fasting in of itself does not save but the Lord said that when the bridegroom leaves then we will fast. Do you remember that quote? The Lord also told us regarding "this kind" does not come out except by prayer and fasting. It was not only referring to the demon possessed boy but also our embedded passions. Just quoting Bible verses does not get rid of your passions. You have to understand all of the Bible not just certain texts in a certain way, away which often has no understanding of the church, and her culture. Fasting has always been part of Christian tradition because it works. It is probably not part of your tradition because your tradition only has the Bible and not the church who wrote it. We are self-indulgent people and when we curb our self-indulgence, we can feel God better. It's not because God rewards us, as if we have to check a box, but because our nature is that when we are self-indulgent we are blind to who God is. May God lead you to a full understanding of the bible, and the church who wrote it, which includes this selection: "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. 19 They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow. 20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence"
Our bishop gives us dispensation for Thanksgiving. That said, he did not say gorge yourselves. This is an interesting discussion, regardless. Also, what good is fasting from meat/dairy if you fill up on starches/veggies/lobster…?
Fasting is useless in any case.
@@whitemakesright2177 They don't care the Orthodox Church has jammed into their heads that fasting, and being ascetical is the most important thing.
@@turtletoons1016 Yes, you're right. It's sad to see.
Why isn't your Nativity Fast starting Nov 15? That's when my church started it.
Because of the difference between Old and New Calendar. You're on the new one.
Fr. Seraphim is a ROCOR priest and follows the Old Calendar (Julian calendar) which is about 13 days behind the Gregorian calendar that most people in the world use. I would ask your priest about it.
☦️
I kinda ripped the bandage off pretty quick. And I was kinda like, no i can't go to the Roman Catholic church with you, no I'm fasting right now, i can't eat that. Its the best method. People get over it quick enough. That's the only way you're not going to be stuck explaining yourself all the time and negotiating your beliefs.
Our parishes is allowing Thanksgiving as normal seeing as it’s the closest thing to a spiritual holiday that America has
My first fasting period and I just ask my priest yesterday for clarification on how to fast properly and where to find what is the optimal way
So is it possible for the Orthodox church to adjust their fasting requirements based on newer nutrition science that shows that eating meat is better for your health that eating carbohydrates?
Fasting in the orthodox chruch isn’t about health, we still eat meat and oils but not all the time. When we aren’t allowed to eat meat that doesn’t mean we replace it with more carbs, especially if it’s the super processed stuff
And what will the newest nutrition science say in 2060? 2120? Who knows. Daniel and friends refused the meat and wine offered to idols and ate vegetables, and they became healthier than any others. Extenuating circumstances, yes, but I don’t think we can just write it off as 100% contrary to nutrition science. God also originally created us to eat fruits and veggies. He gave us animals for food too for this time, and we’ve even bred fruits and veggies to be worse for us (look up ancient watermelon or bananas for example) but not all carbs are created equal either. A lot even depends on the soil it’s grown in. Just like grass fed and finished meat and butter vs grain fed, you can’t get blood from a turnip or nutrients from the soil that aren’t there
@@antibritish_anarchsim1547 Yes I understand that fasting isn't strictly about health. But health is actually important so if you're required to eat in an unhealthy manner for much of the year then I think that's bad.
@@littlefishbigmountain lol
@@WizardOfTheDesert there is plenty of science that shows there are significant benefits to fasting. We only fast for about half the year at most. You’re not going to be lacking in nutrition just because you gave up meat every other day of the year. And there are plenty enough of those fasting days when fish is allowed, which is also very healthy to eat. Please consider all available information before worrying yourself over something so trivial as this.
I’m not orthodox yet but I’m trying to take part of the practices like fasting and I found out orthodox fasts on Wednesday and fridays so I started doing that so I’m confused as to why fasting is on Thursday could someone explain?
@@JaktheGuitarGod This is for the 40 day Nativity fast until Christmas. Orthodox are literally fasting half the year.
The Nativity fast is 40 days, and includes all those days, in a row. Most years, it begins, for those who follow the Old Caelendar, after Thanksgiving, but some years, it occurs during the fast. This is one of those years.
the nativity fast begins on the 15th of november
This is my first major fast as a catechumen. Go big or go home right? Pray for me!
Be grateful. Be grateful that you do not have to eat, traditional thanksgiving food is terrible.
Since fish 🐟 is allowed on Thursday cook it instead of turkey 🐦
I'm not a big meat eater anyways.
Adding dietary restrictions on top of this is just another layer of spiritual confusion. I cant eat bread/gluten which is a staple and is in basically every fasting food. It makes it hard to interpret which is the right decision, because for me i dont have the option of just eating bread at Thanksgiving or whatever. I feel like im capable of denying myself. But trying to adhere to the fasting rules without bread is much more than the fathers would ever have to deal with. Thats like the highest of ascetics who only subsisted on wild mushrooms and herbs and raw fruit/vegetables, and i am not that strong.
Just eat a little meat. Do not fool yourself into thinking that your dietary restrictions give you license to eat as much as you want
@orthodoxnet Thank you. I know my circumstances don't invalidate the ascetic purpose of fasting. It really is just a struggle being at peace with the dietary component of the fast and accepting my circumstances, because it grieves me that I can't adhere to the traditional restrictions. Though from what I've observed, that doesn't stop those who can keep the fasting rules from eating too much, or not fasting from other senses. I try my best to make up for my (perceived, according to the Church rules) diet concessions, with my eyes and ears, and with abstaining from entertainment and luxuries (coffee, TV) and other such things. I'm still new at this, I hope I will be more at peace and able to experience the joyous fast at some point down the line. Right now it's just struggle, and trying not to aggrieve myself for being an exception.
@@NFS0038 God bless you!
@@orthodoxnet thank you father
The fasting rules do not account for things like this because they were made up by illiterate desert lunatics.
I thought we were not under the law…so we gave up God’s law for the traditions of men…these modern traditions of men require 210 days of fasting a year…God’s law never placed these “ heavy burdens” upon his people, in fact he spoke against it…no trouble eating pork or shrimp or lobster, however…the religion that claims it has never changed in 2,000 years, has added many heavy burdens onto the faithful…the new Pharisees…
CHRIST IS RISEN
Christmas this year is January 6th and Nativity fast of Apostle Philip begins on Thanksgiving showing the Julian calendar and Gregorian in a very bitter sweet way telling all Orthodox faithful to become only on one feast and truly on the narrow path. New calendar lacks grace but the schematic old calendar sects are psyops from the ecumenists who made the new calendar change.
Father’s advice here is orthodox and the same as what the church father’s have said.
I cannot type inflection so as a disclaimer I will say: I mean this in a friendly way. Why is the Orthodox Church telling its American parishioners to be annoying on Thanksgiving? 😜 There is no Biblical reason to fast on Thanksgiving 🦃🥧. God smiles upon us when we engage in loving fellowship, that is the whole point of Thanksgiving 🥰. Fasting is between an individual and the Lord, anyways, other people should not even know you are doing it. We really should not be making a show of fasting or prayer 😇. At least that is what God says, I think.
you lack self awareness if you are the average person and think one day of "cheating" on a fast for a get-together is a dilemma.
Get over yourself
Are you purporting for cheating on a fast day because of a get together? Ought everyone cheat on Thanksgiving and all other possible get togethers or else they lack self awareness? Fr is telling us here to do what we can and to perfect our practice in asceticism according to our level, do you disagree?
@ I don't put words in a sentence for no reason. Read it again
@@ryanharvey4555 not trying to be antagonistic either, I just dont think we're on the same page here
Gluttony is always a dilemma. Did you listen to the video? I doubt you understood it. You should always be able to restrain yourself. Eating a little may be the right thing to do. Eating a lot, with two helpings of pie, etc, on a fast day, is self-indulgence and is toxic. You may find a way to give yourself permission, but you are losing an opportunity for spiritual sobriety.
The trope about not offending people only works at the beginning. If you are stuck at grandma's house year two after conversion and you don't know how to handle yourself, you have not made progress. If you keep trying to avoid offending man, you will end up offending God. As far as I know, there is no blessing to "not fast". Even a right-believing bishop cannot bless "not fasting". He can only relax the rules to include fish, wine, or oil. However, it takes an episcopal blessing.
If you break the fast, confess it. But don't plan to do so and certainly don't excuse and attempt to justify it.
@@family6041 Thank you for the questions. 1. Planning to break the fast is a sin to confess. 2. I am a priest. How others fast is my business. As a peacemaker, it is my job to help people know what pleases God. 3. All Christians are obliged to fast. There is nothing contrary about my mentioning that. 4. Did I "spit out" anything? Did I call you names? Did I accuse you of pride or being Jewish? Let's be reasonable.
BTW, Is there anything about what I said you would like to find fault with? The manner of your comment is a very worn-out attack rather than a response.
@ it’s funny you mention fault finding when you’re entire fake orthodox cult is based on faultfinding
God cares more about what you eat, and when, than about showing love to your family? What a ridiculous cult.
@whitemakesright2177 This statement is a variation of another statement made long ago, "yea, hath God truly said...". We don't pit His commandments against love because love is the fulfillment of the Law.
Why does he keep touching his mouth? Why is his beard red around his mouth? Is that a skin rash?
I am an alien. You got me.
It's not red 😂