A very well presented solution to a problem that is better seen than lectured about. The indexing fixture is obviously of high quality, just from the features and effortless rotation.
Very clever setup and method of hole location. I learn something from you each time you put up a new video. Thank you for sharing. Take Care and Stay Safe. Bob
@@StefanGotteswinter I think what G. Leuprecht meant was that your mystery part seemed to have a chamfer in the bore edge, thus the ball would be resting against the chamfer face and not at the theoretical end face of the bore, thus giving a tiny error in the position.
@@doubledarefan Yep, I'll bet that probably everyone who does something with any sort of cutting / fabrication of solid materials who also has access to and knowledge of use of a CAD system has done it at least a time or two (likely more).
Very nice video. The first time I heard of you was a few years back, when John Saunders did a shop tour of your place. I subscribed to your channel a week or so ago, but this was the first of your videos I watched. You appear to be a very skilled craftsman, and with over 50 years in the trade I real that I know a craftsman when I see one. I'll be here watching from now on. Thank You for sharing.
For tolerances greater than +/- 0.001 inch, locating ball on sharp cornered hole may be ok. Below +/- 001 you need to measure the center of the ball relative to the end of the part. Once that is established you can hold hole tolerance to gage level accuracy, +/- 0.0001inch
@@EitriBrokkr Clough 42 is a hack, possibly, He certainly isnt in the same league as the others but he is well on the right side of the line. He does try to work well with the resourses he has available. Yes he is a long way from the best, but at least he is trying and bettering millions of others. So I dont disrespect him.
@@EitriBrokkr I'd say he's a hobbyist, not a hack. He's also quite meticulous, there's a lot to admire in his approach even if his level of machining skill is not at the same level as the professionals on YT. And his electronic leadscrew project is really interesting, and he's at home with that because he's a software guy professionally.
@@cooperised I'm not critiquing his machining, I'm talking about his electronics and specifically that lead screw project. The guy is clueless, and carries on with this persona as if he's the authority on the subject. You can buy, for at least a decade already, all the stuff to do that. Proven and commercially available, way faster, easier and cheaper than what he "invented"
@@EitriBrokkr I don't believe he's ever claimed to have invented it. It's far from unique, and for sure there are some really well priced commercial devices around (I like the look of the Rocketronics one myself). I've no idea what he charges tbh, but plenty of hobbyists seem to like the challenge of a kit. As for the electronic engineering, well, it seems fairly sound to me - and I'm an electronic engineer. 🤷 Anyway, if you don't like a channel, don't watch, I guess...
I have used this method before as well. One thing to note and it may not have been relevant for the part you were making but how much error would you have had to build in for the edge break/chamfer you had on the I.D of the part.
How can one be sure that the glue is not adding height? I guess a better way to ask is how can you be certain that the ball is making contact all the way around if there is a rubberized glue on the rim?
I just reread my own comment and realized it sounds like a challenge. I just want to clarify that I am asking to learn, not to criticize. I could never work on parts so small, but I learn so much theory watching your channel that it makes me want to learn/understand more
its good solution but the precission of the drilling hole depend on how precise is the bore how precise is the ball and its sitting on glue its not always that precise how you want to, Anyway for this operation its obviously useful , but productivity setting time and others , its better to use turning angle table . or 5 axis machine, Anyway point of this video is you can make everything in your scale . And i enjoyed the video . Nice work Sfefan as always. Greetings from Czech Republic. :-)
With an end-mill that thin, it would most likely catch and break as it breaks through the opposite side. Drill bits are a lot cheaper to replace....at least, that has been my experience.
How did you deburr that hole (since a countersink would obviously throw off the position just like a burr would)? Or is the remaining burr small enough to be within the positioning tolerance?
Stefan, I was with you indicating the ball bearing until you spun the indexer to Check the run-out of the spindexer set up. Indicating opposite the indexer put the test indicator at 45 degrees off the equator which yields a different value than if you positioned the test indicator in front of or behind your work piece which would place the indicator at O degrees from the equator. The resultant TIR of the 2 positions is not the same.
@ Stefan Gotteswinter Hi Stefan please can I ask a favour? Could you tell me what head clearance you need in your workshop for your milling machine at uppermost head setting? Many thanks! Wayne
Really neat wax to solve that problem! I liked the spinning fixture, it reminded me of the one that Tom Lipton showed. Did you make it or is it bought? Nice Weekend!
Latest ebay score :D Its a punch grinding fixture, normaly found in toolroom/grinding/toolmaking shops. I was looking for one for very long time. Its a taiwanese copy/interpretation of a Harig Grind All Nr.1
Did you end up modifying the mill, I thought the mb4 top speed was around 1800rpm ? Edit: I was wrong, mb4 goes up to 3200rpm. Great tip re. edge finding and measuring, thanks
I'm glad you specified you got the bearing from a box and didn't find it in the wild the same way Marco Reps harvests his wild capacitors.
As a tool and die maker, your videos always bring me joy!
Thank you Stefan, I'm far from a math guy but you broke down this issue so even I get it, great video as always.
Greetings from Florida USA.
Cheers, from Orlando.....
Very impressive setup/micro machining! Thanks for taking us along-
A very well presented solution to a problem that is better seen than lectured about. The indexing fixture is obviously of high quality, just from the features and effortless rotation.
Very clever setup and method of hole location. I learn something from you each time you put up a new video. Thank you for sharing.
Take Care and Stay Safe.
Bob
excellent technique.
Yes I remember Joe Pie talking about this technique. Thanks for reminding me and thanks for the video.
Thank you Stefan, I love seeing how machining problems are resolved!
Very enlightening!
Thank you! :)
Thanks for sharing your skills, I hope you write a machinery tips and tricks book soon. Cheers from Sweden.
Nice work Stefan!
ATB, Robin
Nice to see you Robin.
@@xmachine7003 Thanks.
Nice job Stefan.
Great video production/discussion/demonstration….tks for sharing
its good to see you again Stefan.
Sunday is not perfect without new SGTWR video! Pleasure to watch as always!
Great problem solving, thanks Stefan.
Thank you for the lesson….. alway so helpful to see the concept in action. 👍👍😎👍👍
Elegant as usual Stefan. I'd was hoping you'd show how you will radius the edge of those two holes. Maybe next time?
5.705 is the theoretical dimension - did you take into accont that the bore has a chamfered edge?
Yes, I took the actual wall of the bore as a reference, not the chamfer/fillet.
This feels like a comment the customer would make, lol.
@@StefanGotteswinter I think what G. Leuprecht meant was that your mystery part seemed to have a chamfer in the bore edge, thus the ball would be resting against the chamfer face and not at the theoretical end face of the bore, thus giving a tiny error in the position.
Always interesting, thank you
Hi Stefan.
Some late night viewing for me here in Sydney.
Wonderful stuff mate. Super informative.
Best regards
Robert
And from Brisbane.
I'm also in Sydney :)
Man, did I love the bar of the Mercantile Hotel back in the days👍
Great video! I hadn't thought to use a ball bearing so I could change the part angle and still touch off a constant circle!
Secret trigonometry trick: Lay it out in a sketch in CAD 😁😂 Thank you Stefan great setup!
Much less error prone than on paper :D
@@StefanGotteswinter Yep, I do it all the time. Plus, if its fairly complex, it can be a drastic time saver.
@@CJ-ty8sv Same here. And I am not even a machinist. I mainly do woodworking.
@@doubledarefan Yep, I'll bet that probably everyone who does something with any sort of cutting / fabrication of solid materials who also has access to and knowledge of use of a CAD system has done it at least a time or two (likely more).
Great tip thanks Stefan.
I was expecting chord formulas and a calculator! Didn't think a sketch and a computer would come up. Thanks for sharing :)
thank you stefan, realy enjoy theas short tips and tricks, but also all your longer vidieos. regars richard.
Thank you and your customer for sharing this with us.
Interesting problem and an elegant solution 👍
Wonderful work as always Stefan. Loved the technique. Also your camera work is awesome.
Thanks for diagramming that technique. I want to try shellac to adhere the ball.
Do you clean up the inside of that hollow feature after this drilling action?
The break out of the drilling action.
With a drill in a pin vise, coming in from the back.
Good video. Thanks!
Cheers for the tip. Also I do like the look of the fixture to hold the V block.
So much to learn, so little time. Thanks for the look.
I love precision milling in small dimensions, usually with a 3mm bit, interesting Rotary Chuck system. i should make this for me too.
Very nice video. The first time I heard of you was a few years back, when John Saunders did a shop tour of your place. I subscribed to your channel a week or so ago, but this was the first of your videos I watched. You appear to be a very skilled craftsman, and with over 50 years in the trade I real that I know a craftsman when I see one. I'll be here watching from now on. Thank You for sharing.
I have needed this method once in 20 years but it certainly is an important one when you do need. It!! 😎
Great work as always. Nice little tip to Share.
CAD does all pf the math for me these days as well... Looks like a pretty nice way to pick up the location! Hope all is well there. - TZ
Very cool.. Also great video from Joe.. Seems like just yesterday I watched that.. man time flies !
For tolerances greater than +/- 0.001 inch, locating ball on sharp cornered hole may be ok. Below +/- 001 you need to measure the center of the ball relative to the end of the part. Once that is established you can hold hole tolerance to gage level accuracy, +/- 0.0001inch
TOT, Joe Pie, AVE, Abom you will be watching Cloug42 soon? Stefan & Joe and Mike Patey have my unreserved respect and admoration. Thank you.
Cloug42 is a hack
@@EitriBrokkr Clough 42 is a hack, possibly, He certainly isnt in the same league as the others but he is well on the right side of the line. He does try to work well with the resourses he has available. Yes he is a long way from the best, but at least he is trying and bettering millions of others. So I dont disrespect him.
@@EitriBrokkr I'd say he's a hobbyist, not a hack. He's also quite meticulous, there's a lot to admire in his approach even if his level of machining skill is not at the same level as the professionals on YT. And his electronic leadscrew project is really interesting, and he's at home with that because he's a software guy professionally.
@@cooperised I'm not critiquing his machining, I'm talking about his electronics and specifically that lead screw project. The guy is clueless, and carries on with this persona as if he's the authority on the subject. You can buy, for at least a decade already, all the stuff to do that. Proven and commercially available, way faster, easier and cheaper than what he "invented"
@@EitriBrokkr I don't believe he's ever claimed to have invented it. It's far from unique, and for sure there are some really well priced commercial devices around (I like the look of the Rocketronics one myself). I've no idea what he charges tbh, but plenty of hobbyists seem to like the challenge of a kit. As for the electronic engineering, well, it seems fairly sound to me - and I'm an electronic engineer. 🤷 Anyway, if you don't like a channel, don't watch, I guess...
Thanks Stefan
really good. makes perfect sense too
Nice technique. Thanks for posting.
Nice photography. Informative and fun to watch.
Very nice work, going to add this approach to my machining OS. ^_____^
Sehr lehrreiches Video. Wie verrundest du die Kante am Bohrungseintritt, im CAD sieht man dort einen Radius?
Wird mit Polierpaste auf einem Holzdorn, im Handschleifer gespannt, verknödelt (Fachbegriff :-) )
Beautifully filmed Stefan 8-)
I too will be able to do this now that I have made my Gotteswinter indicator holder!
👍 thanks for sharing!
Seriously. Who’s thumbs this down ?….smh.
Great video !
Nice, thank you Stefan.
Ja ist denn heut schon Weihnachten?
Lebkuchen gibts auf jeden Fall schon im Einzelhandel :D
@@StefanGotteswinter Zu irgendwas mussten die ganzen Präzisionsteile für die Zeitmaschine ja auch gut sein!
Another excellent tips video, always a pleasure to watch!
How would you deburr the inside of the oblique holes?
Just with a drill in a pinvise, coming in from the back, removing the little burr.
Another great video lesson...Thank You.
great information Sir....Bravo
Nice video and interesting problem solving. Thanks
Had never thought to do that . Mostly relied on optical options in that situation.
Still learning methods after 40 years. Thank you.
Thanks Stefan...great content as always...
Great video 👍 Stefan such small holes if you had to do many would a sleeve over drill bush guide be a good alternative.
Thanks for sharing!
Nice one Stefan!
Very nicely done. Never have thought of that.
How is the town where you live Stephan? Did it suffer flooding?
Some great content there . Cheers .
nice lesson danke Stefan
How would you inspect these parts so you know the hole is right? Thanks
4:14 “let’s hope we don’t glue ourselves to the piece… as usual”
I have used this method before as well. One thing to note and it may not have been relevant for the part you were making but how much error would you have had to build in for the edge break/chamfer you had on the I.D of the part.
Very neat, thanks.
How can one be sure that the glue is not adding height? I guess a better way to ask is how can you be certain that the ball is making contact all the way around if there is a rubberized glue on the rim?
I just reread my own comment and realized it sounds like a challenge. I just want to clarify that I am asking to learn, not to criticize. I could never work on parts so small, but I learn so much theory watching your channel that it makes me want to learn/understand more
@@jpsimon206 the ball was in position before the glue was added.
@@mattmanyam he added glue before and after
@@jpsimon206 You're right. I missed it the first time around.
So, zero chamfer on the central hole . i.e. dead sharp ?
And how many times did you actually glued the indicator point to the ball?
Just wondering...
Another gem. 👍🏾👍🏾
its good solution but the precission of the drilling hole depend on how precise is the bore how precise is the ball and its sitting on glue its not always that precise how you want to, Anyway for this operation its obviously useful , but productivity setting time and others , its better to use turning angle table . or 5 axis machine, Anyway point of this video is you can make everything in your scale . And i enjoyed the video . Nice work Sfefan as always. Greetings from Czech Republic. :-)
I guess he should have just ordered up a 5 axis machine for this job then...
Thank you!
why switch to a drill when the endmill was most of the way to the bore? Why not just keep going with the endmill?
With an end-mill that thin, it would most likely catch and break as it breaks through the opposite side. Drill bits are a lot cheaper to replace....at least, that has been my experience.
Morning, Stefan!
Hi Vince
@@union310 Greetings.
Good morning!
Stafan, as always you show very high end work! and you dont post enough to keep me happy!! who cut the taper on the tube? poppy's workshop says HI
the technique ball bearing is pure machinig old school
Parallel and a roll pin if you need to do a flat surface :3
Triangle circle club 4 lyfe.
Can tell how smooth that quill is, jealous.
VMS make very high quality super glues including black... And a very good debonder
I get my sk40 measuringmicroscope and determine the zero point. But maybe the part has rounded edges...then it gets hard to do....
Did you break the edges of the holes?
Brilliant
Thanks Stefan, neat technique. Rule 0: Do not be on fire. Rule 1: Do not glue yourself to the part.
How did you deburr that hole (since a countersink would obviously throw off the position just like a burr would)? Or is the remaining burr small enough to be within the positioning tolerance?
How did you setup your depth stop for multiple parts
you should build a saturn 5 in your next video
You know what?
THATS A BRILLIANT IDEA!
Stefan, I was with you indicating the ball bearing until you spun the indexer to Check the run-out of the spindexer set up. Indicating opposite the indexer put the test indicator at 45 degrees off the equator which yields a different value than if you positioned the test indicator in front of or behind your work piece which would place the indicator at O degrees from the equator. The resultant TIR of the 2 positions is not the same.
Great tip!
@ Stefan Gotteswinter
Hi Stefan please can I ask a favour? Could you tell me what head clearance you need in your workshop for your milling machine at uppermost head setting?
Many thanks!
Wayne
nice trick . wouldnt need that if u had a 5axis but old school is fun too
...6:00.... A weird situation...does that fall into the category of 'dead-nuts' or a 'gnats ass'....??
Skill is when you can explain what you're doing .. how and why :D
Compac magnetic base but no Compac indicator...(I know, they cost more than that Mahr test indicator)
The music at the beginning immediately gave me AvE vibes
Really neat wax to solve that problem! I liked the spinning fixture, it reminded me of the one that Tom Lipton showed. Did you make it or is it bought?
Nice Weekend!
Latest ebay score :D
Its a punch grinding fixture, normaly found in toolroom/grinding/toolmaking shops. I was looking for one for very long time.
Its a taiwanese copy/interpretation of a Harig Grind All Nr.1
@@StefanGotteswinter Nice!
@@StefanGotteswinter Look like the Taiwan made ones are ~ $1000 and the Chinese ones on eBay are ~$300.
@@duanedickey7043 Generally Taiwanese tools are better than Chinese. Nothing in machine shops is cheap. Have to pay to play.
@@grntitan1 No commie tools in my shop.
Did you end up modifying the mill, I thought the mb4 top speed was around 1800rpm ?
Edit: I was wrong, mb4 goes up to 3200rpm.
Great tip re. edge finding and measuring, thanks