You're exactly right! I'm amazed someone else has figured out the correct oil level. I've watched a dozen of these guys that got suckered in these silly catch cans,and think how is it possible they can't figure out how to properly change oil.
Biggest problem is ppl think they need to check oil level with bike standing straight up level. Everything is designed for you to check oil level with bike leaned over on kick stand. Many many ppl over fill oil bc of that
@@Rollanotheronemyfriend If you actually ride the damn thing instead of polishing it all the time there will be oil vented out of engine into the breather, regardless of oil level. Keeping the right oil level does help though, most overfill!! 70+ is the only way to roll!!
@CatfishLove well I do ride it,and I don't polish it. Yes a very small amount of oil finds It's way to the air filter even with correct oil level. But many people over fill, these people think a catch can is the remedy. They should instead learn proper oil level.
Its called Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV). Its been done in some manner on internal combustion engines forever. Where you installed your catch can, I just ran a longer hose (no catch can) under the engine and through the frame skid plate. Its vented to the atmosphere. I did not plug the two holes in the air breather assembly. I get a little oil drip, through the external breather hose, not much. I keep an eye on it. You could extend your hose and mount your catch can under the engine somewhere. That way you're not spraying water into the can when you wash your bike. It cannot suck water into the can, riding in the rain, as it has positive crankcase pressure going into the can.
I too made an external breather system on my HD Heavy Breather. However, I ran the hoses up and over the throttle body, put a Y fitting under the gas tank, then ran the one hose up and over the battery and into the right side cover (cam side of the bike). I put a small K&N filter in there, then I zip tied a HD soft cloth around the filter. I replace the soft cloth every few rides. There was no oil in the side cover. This has worked very well.
You certainly received a lot of responses, both for and against external breathers. What I don’t see is the point that any engine will run better with cold clean air than with hot oily air I never dyno’d my bike, but definitely felt a difference going from stock to external breathing
I simply use less oil than the full amount recommended by the service manual. A HD Master Tech taught me that and it solved the problem. I will occasionally get a very small amount of blow by but nothing like it was. Finally, I use Seafoam every 5K miles.
@@johnjohnson2855 you can do both. You certainly don't have to do every 5k like me. I just do it out of habit. For oil, be very careful and follow the instructions. You don't want to overfill the oil tank so be sure to exchange some oil out for the Seafoam going in.
Cars have a CPV (crankcase positive ventilation) valve. It is not an EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) valve. Those are two completely separate functions done for different reasons. The external breather on the bike is roughly equivalent to the CPV function. Bikes don't have an EGR at all, at least not in my experience. If catch-cans for bikes were done properly, they would vent out through a hose back to the intake, in theory without the oily crap. Due to how the head ports and intake plate are designed, getting the dirty vapor out and a clean return back isn't easy (mechanically) so most systems just vent the can to atm. Also, those cans are simply too damn small which is why most of them fart oil out the vent holes.
Run the hose below the bike to a filter, not a can. Problem solved, I've been doing it for years with no issues. Not trying to be condescending, genuinely trying to help.
What type/size filter would you rerecommend. I was going to get a can but after reading several comments it seems your option makes the best sense. Run through the frame and out the bottom to filter. 15 fxdf 103.
IMHO, I still think that it’s easier to clean the oil from somewhere in the exterior of the bike than to clean the carbon build up from the top of the piston and the valves. Just place your catch can somewhere sheltered from the rain and clean it often. Before EPA regulations, all the internal combustion engines just vented the oil from the crankcase to the atmosphere, including Harleys.
Let’s see the government uses old dirty oil I drop off at Autozone to coat our streets (slur coat) to protect the streets but me dropping a small amount of oil onto street is an EPA violation. Such BS!!
I believe your breather assembly in the rocker area is bad. Easy way to test them is remove the engine drain plug with the oil fill cap still on if there good oil will barely come out. If oil pours out like when you have the filler cap off then your breathers are not closing. The umbrella seal can be replaced separately so you don't need to buy the entire assembly. As mentioned i run my external hoses under the engine. Very little oil comes thru the hose if your breathers are working properly.
Different catch cans work differently. I've installed catch cans on racing engines that work flawlessly. You buy cheap you get cheap. Mine in my 2016 road king has never squirted any oil anywhere but in the can I installed. My bike has 37,000 miles on it and still runs like new! I've seen bikes with just a filter hanging off their engine not dripping a thing. I've seen catch cans with water inside but here in Florida the humidity can be 120% so it's advised to check the can. I'm also careful not to get any water inside any part of any engine. Internal combustion engines do not run off hydrogen. Stock intakes are known for collecting water. Mine did so I switched it out to an Arlen Ness.
I did mine the same exact way and ran a hose through the frame no problem at all!! not much exccess oil at all. You have a blowback problem. oil is going past your cylinder walls and pistons. I would get that checked out!
Hope you don't get oil running down inside your air filter. The way the backing plates ( Screaming Eagle, Big Sucker,etc) are designed is supposed to catch all the oil blowby and send it into the throat of the TB but it don't...at least the ones that I have owned didn't. I fixed mine to burn all the oil drip, not some bc I didn't want oil running down inside my air filter. I will be glad to share my fix with anyone interested in knowing how I did it. Great job on the video! Thank you
I can certainly understand wanting to ditch that particular catch can. I may give the DK Customs catch can a go. Its internals are much different than the one you showed, and I haven't heard about it having the spitting issue. The DK has 4 levels of foam separated by perforated separators. Nice garage by the way.👍
I just ran a simple breather filter under the frame. I don’t get much mist on the filter. When I wash the bike (which is not that often) I give the filter a couple of squirts of degreaser and wash it off with the water hose. No mess no fuss. Looks like you had more of a water problem than oil. I always cover my air filter with a plastic bag when I wash the bike. Maybe you could have covered the breather filter when you washed the bike🤷
Have had my catch can from dk custom for over two years never had that problem. But mine has three separate filters with with thin plastic washers between each one never shoots out oil
If your vent hose and can are puking a constant oil mist, you may have bigger problems. Likely bad rings and a ton of blowby causing excessive crankcase pressure. Your bike - your choice. But I think you are just addressing a symptom, and not the problem. Time will tell.
I'm running a simple paper filter on my '95 Electra Glide Classic and I don't get that much oil. Are you overfilling your crankcase? I don't get the blowby you are talking about. Sorry you're having the issues.
I cut a small 7/16 hose and and glued it to the inner entrench of the catch can that goes about 1/3 down. Im hoping when the oil starts dripping into the can, it will be at least 1/3 down the can already, rather going out the catch can which will be the path of least resistant without that little extra hose
I'm running the exact same catch can on my 2016 Softail Slim and , in my case anyway, there is hardly any oil collected in it and I haven't noticed any oil mess around it at all. ( I have it mounted down near the tranny and it's clean all around it). But, each machine is different and your machine seems to be be slushing more oil out that mine does.
You catch can looks more like a filter. They have much better cans for this purpose. For the record, i dont have one on any of my bkes but so far they are not spitters. If they were, the air filter would be oily and i will get a catch can, one that it designed and installed in a effective place on the bike. You may have bad umbrella valves or too much oil in the crankcase. Try running the level between full and low, but always above low. Good video, you verified my opinion, don't use it if it is not dripping from or wetting your air filter.
The position of the can is definitely wrong. I also put an external breather on the bike but the hose from air filter goes back into the olil reservoir and a second hose with an air cleaner goes behind the right side cover.. So only air goes out and any oil runs back. And it is protected against water.
you answered my question. I kept wondering about all the sumping issue talk. I have been checking my stock 2023 107 M8 FOR THE MESS MANY ARE SAYING WILL HAPPEN. Mine has been clean so far. I will wait on the catch can. thanks
I use a small red filter instead of a can, works great. I run mine back infront of the tranny, and don't get water on it or in it. Love the pipe plumbed shelfing on the wall there vary cool
I rebuilt my TC at 55k miles. No catch can. I run sea foam often. I had 1/8” of oil carbon on top of both pistons and inside the combustion chambers. I installed catch can as part of the build. I have 80k on it now when I get to 100k will pull it back down, but I’m confident that it won’t be oil carbon up again. If you’re blowing that much oil it may be indicative of another issue. Maybe need to change the one way portion of the pvc system in the head. Until then… You should of drained the can more often. However, You do you…
As other people have commented, it's not an EGR, that's being changed it's the PVC. Harleys haven't been running it back through the engine forever. That started with the EVO. Shovelheads don't have that crap.
I’ve pretty got the same set up except for the catch can,instead ,I have a breather filter on mine,no oil has been sprayed out or slowly leaked out,I’ve had it on since July of 2023,it’s Dec 2023 and winter in Ohio and the bike is stored,but I’m gonna watch your video the whole way through and see what your doing,your input is appreciated
2019 Road King…..vented breathers to atmosphere below the bike, hose under the bike isn’t oily at all….. check it when I change the oil, dry. Plus, my oil levels between changes stay on the full till about 2500 miles then I can add 1/2 qt. For the remainder of the 5000 miles…. Clean oil filter and intake.
well your catch can should have wire mesh at the top of the can with a piece of foam to keep any oil from escaping. not using a catch can will let the oil vent back into your motor and be reburned but after awhile it will hurt your performance. your throttle plate butterflies well start getting clogged with oil residue will cause lag in throttle response and the bike won't idle the it should. if you have that much blow by then your rings are probably shot
I think you followed your great instinct and fought what I and millions with me call a FACT.., Oil-fumes makes carbon debris on the top of your pistons AND on your Valves..period ! BUT..if the solution for you..NOT to extend the breather hose down and out..plus get rid of the ridiculous filter you installed,..you did right ! Ride free Bro ✊🏻🇺🇸☠️
if you're pushing that much oil out, you have excess crankcase pressure, you need to vent the crankcase. I had an external breather setup on my 2016 twin cam SGS, I vented to atmosphere and never had a problem, that bike had 38k miles when I traded it in on my 2023 RGS, which also has an EBS vented to atmosphere. Guessing your bike has a lot of miles, if you're pushing that much oil out from crankcase pressure...
For those that have the same issue, and don't want to remove the catch can, that catch can of his isnt quite right..it needs an internal down tube to release the oily gas deep in the can..but to make this system work better, create an elevated rise in your vent tubes before the lead down I to the catch can.. You don't want an all-down-hill run for this head valve oil, but only the pressured oil vapor to make it to the catch can..if you still have too much making it to the can, consider venting the engine case (you might be getting alot of case pressure) Also be sure to run you hog about up to half way Mark on your dipstick (when properly measured) but also keep your total added hose length short as the vent system will gain/collect additonal condensation that can run into the catch can, and fill it up quicker than just oil vapor
Depending on which engine your F150 has it would benefit more from a catch can. My F150 is direct injection so fuel does not have a chance to clean off the back side of the intake valves. My RG is port injection so fuel hits those valves and cleans them.
That was my thoughts also. I have a similar catch can as he shows and I have no problem with "oil mist". If he's blowing that much oil there's another problem.
certainly running the crankcase pressure breather output to the intake will be cleaner. And they do this for emissions, The "oil vapor" going into the combustion chamber theoretically burns and doesn't go to the atmosphere as hydrocarbons. This is not a panacea however. Depending on the quality of your piston ring-cylinder seal, how hot it is outside, how hot the engine is, how hard you are working the engine and at what RPM and for how long, and depending on how old your oil is and the quality of oil, there will be more or less "oil mist" that enters the combustion chamber. Best case scenario is that it burns off incognito, though in reality, this will never be the case. Worst case scenario is that the "oil mist" pollutes your intake charge and causes carbon deposits and resultant pinging and changes in adaptive fueling and engine performance and, ultimately, reduced engine performance and engine life.
I've got 92,500 miles on my '09 Sporty and just recently switched to an external breather system after re-sealing my intake manifold. YUCK! The inside of the throttle body and intake manifold was a nasty mess. I keep my oil level right in the middle of the dipstick and a minute amount of oil comes out of the breather tube.
I'd recommend running your hoses upward instead of downward as far as where you drill for those fittings, I would drill on the upper/top part of the standoff and then go up under your tank to the left side of the bike and then run a longer hose back somewhere where you can hide a filter, I don't like catch cans myself I prefer a small filter.
I made my PCV tube from 3/8 copper tubing, two 3/8 brass unions and one brass 3/8 x 3/8 x 3/8 "T" fitting. Ran the tube down between the transmission and towards the ground. Who cares what it looks like, it works. Now, back in the days of yore engine PCV was a simple hose running from the engine and all the way back behind the rear fender. You can still get creative and make one from steel or copper tubing and hide it under your rear fender?
Venting the crankcase into the air cleaner creates a number of problems if there is appreciable oil carry-over (which can happen for many reasons, some listed below). Oil, introduced into the combustion chamber through the intake tract, will create carbon deposits on the piston crown, increasing compression and potentially causing harmful detonation. Carbon deposits can also cause piston rings to seize in their grooves, which increases blow-by into the crankcase and reduces oil control along the cylinder walls. Both will lead to even more oil in the combustion chamber, further aggravating carbon build-up. Blow-by of the combustion gases into the crankcase introduces acids into the oil and also causes oil contamination and/or fuel dilution, all of which increase engine wear. Also, if the air-filter is over-oiled due to carry-over, the engine is going to run rich, causing even more carbon deposits.
Considering how many stock HD bikes run way past 50k miles, I don't know that there's any real advantage to oil catch-cans. I mean sure, the intake will stay cleaner but if the rest of the bike wears out regardless then I don't see much advantage. If an engine does eventually get a rebuild then everything will get cleaned out anyway. I wish HD designed these things better because it's less than ideal, but all things considered in the long run, I don't think it's such a big deal. I've been running my Sportster for 15 years and when I replace the spark plugs, I look into the chambers with my little scope-cam and the pistons and valve heads look just fine. There's no massive buildup of carbon or gunk or anything and the plug electrodes look exactly as they should. The bike runs great and I've been tracking the mileage in a log for years and it still gets 40+ mpg just like when it was new. No catch-can for me.
My 1994 Honda Goldwing has 321,215 original miles and has never needed a catch can or any mechanical work done to it. Brakes tires batteries spark plugs and that’s been it. Quality is Quality period.
I've been on the fence about putting an external breather on my bike. My question to you is if you covered the catch can with a baggie to prevent water from entering during the bike wash, would that have helped eliminate the oily mist from blowing back on your wife and the bike and changed your mind about remove it?
Yeah, I’d worry more about the cleanliness of my bike instead of the health of my motor. Harley use to run a breather hose out to the ground until the epa got involved. Harley used to care about their customer base until they woke up.
It's not about the cleanliness of the bike as it is the safty of not having oil spray on the the rear tire and brake, the ideal plan would be to vent it higher where the oil won't leak out but the gases vent out. Just my opinion
Since its not direct inject the gas still wash's intake valves and piston,run good gas,oil,and intake cleaner every once in a while,should keep everything happy.
A free breathing exhaust and intake along with quality oils will do more for an engine than most modifications. That said water cooling is the surest way and is the future of these engines, doing it without ruining the nostalgic look is the only thing in the way. Also positive crankcase ventilation proper set up eliminates the drool. Some research into oil flowback in the heads might be a consideration as long as it does not create more cooling problems.
EGR is exhaust gas recirculation, has nothing to do with crankcase ventilation. But your dealing with is PCV, positive crankcase ventilation, completely different from one another.
Lower the catch can and quit filling the oil all the way up to the full line. 1/4 quart lower and you probably wouldn't be spraying oil all over anything.
There's not much worry about carbon buildup on port injected systems on engines anyway. Direrct injected systems in vehicles may need cleaning more often from carbon buildup on valves because there's no fresh fuel washing over the valves like you would get from intake port injectors above the valves. Carbon buildup on pistons and valves still occurs on any other system anyway, but you would have to put a ton of miles on the engine. My Harley is nearly 20 years old and has the sequential port injection system. Never used a catch can. Kept the backing plate stock. Still never had much carbon buildup issues. Just put additives in your fuel once in a while.
I had the same or similar problem. I had the D/K Customs setup. It was always filling with water vapor. And had to be dumped daily. Very annoying. I bought the Trask vented transmission cover. Problem solved.
All that unnecessary rambling is irritating. Just show us what you did and what parts you used total time 3 minutes. 3 minutes of useful info with 9 minutes of unnecessary worthless chatter.
if you've got that much oil coming out one of two things is happening. either your oil level is to high. or you've got another problem maybe its just a faulty umbrella valve. or you getting to much head pressure.
You are fighting gravity. The reason it's spraying is because it isn't actually venting the crankcase back to the intake. It's pushing liquid oil through the 'vents' under a bit of pressure. A "breather" should always above the fumes source rising up from below (think breathers on a V8's valve covers). A catch can, is right for your configuration, but no breather down there, a catch with a drain port. Your breather should be sourced from the same plumbing as the catch, but UP, slightly above all sources of fumes/gas and residual oil into that loop. The breather is a vent. Air goes up, oil goes down.
i installed a feuling vented dipstick and i still get blow by. i think a lot of it comes from how you ride. if you stay north of 3000 rpms most of the time you going to have more of a problem with it. you really don't know how much you getting until you pull that throttle body off and look in that intake manifold. excessive blow by is the result of improper engine break in anyway.
You might consider a hose in and hose out catch can with a oil catch medium inside..i made my own..a 1 -2 ounce can, and put it in my airbox, so what doesnt collect in or on the meduim, get back into the intake..not anywhere else
The catch can was poorly designed. The mist was just coming into the can at the top and bouncing off the filter media. I made a can out of a fuel filter, attached a writing pen tube to the bottom of the can. I then cut a passageway for the pen tube to go through so the mist was entering the can at the bottom. My filter media only fills up the can about 3/4 of the to the top. It works real good. Mine was patterned after DK Custom's $80.00 can. I spent about $8.00 on mine.
Seems like the can needs to have its breather holes not on the top of the catch can but rather drilled along the side of the can at a 45 degree downward angle.
Speaking of water getting into things when washing the bike, I put my wife's shower cap over my Arlen Ness inverted air cleaner when washing the bike. It's a perfect fit.
I use a filter instead a catch can, and dont over fill oil. Havent had any issues. Good luck though! Just run some sea foam in the gas tank periodically :)
The fact that HD vents the crankcase directly to the intake is borderline criminal. The M8 makes excess crankcase pressure and it destroyed my 2017 FLHTK engine. No motor likes hot intake air especially when the fuel air mixture is contaminated with less combustible oil vapor. It would cost the motor company more money but considering the places where crankcase pressure can be relieved such as the transmission top cover, the dipstick, etc. it would not be rocket science to run an inline condenser to relieve clean air to the atmosphere and save the condensed remaining oil for disposal. I may even engineer that myself. When I saw the condition of the tops of my pistons when my motor was taken apart I was shocked by the layer of poorly burned carbon on their tops. As a matter of fact, had I known HD used such a cheap method of ventilation, I would have bypassed the brand.
I have the DK transformer EBS set up. New motor. Broke it in well. Runs fkn so well. Got that catch can arojnd 1500 Mi. I gotta wipe mist off my rear heat shield all the time. Added fueling dipstick and it helped some. It’s not poor ring seal it’s fkn crank pressure. Yea I run oil down 4 dots. I blow it all out whwre the hose meets the catch can. But I got just zip ties on it need some hose clamps or better yet compression fittings and SS lines and move can 107 Stage 2 2023 FLTRX
I tried one as well and they are nothing but problems. The Harley tech told me that venting at the air cleaner can cause issues as it needs some pressure for the rings I went with the trask transmission cover
when you tear down an engine you see the damage. Valves and other components suffer. Pistons just burn it, that is why carbon build up. Over time its a problem for the engine. Your introducing byproducts, exhaust emissions back into the engine, and this eventually causes a problem. All internal combustion engines have blowby and water condensation. Its these products that wear on metal parts. Frequent oil and fluid changes are recommended due to this. The water in your catch can is not from external sources.
And if you have that much oil blowing out your catch can you’ve got more problems than the catch can. And my catch can the holes are about the size of a paper clip.
I think it was the brand and placement that was the problem , ya probably have water teacupping off the bottom of your air cleaner cover going right to the holes on top of catch can , if ya dont know what teacupping is , look it up .....
I have been running one like yours and I have never had any problems with mine in two years. You have a serious problem with the breathers in the heads.
Im not convinced that a little extra oil running into my top end and getting burned is a bad thing anyway, especially with how lean it runs without a tuner, so yeah I let it suck that oil down too.
I used to have all those same HD issues, then I bought a Yamaha VStar and never looked back, now i never miss a ride and my tools now have dust on them😊
@guyh.4121 I only paid $3,100. for a mint completely loaded 1100 XVS classic with low mileage..what do I care about resale..owning an HD is an addiction, your so bound and determined to make that thing reliable and run good but your pushing a giant snowball up hill, and that snowball just keeps getting bigger and bigger, I tried it and decided it wasn't for me
Synthetic oil does not burn. That's why you see m8 engines with massive carbon build-up on the pistons. Venting the trans cover is a much better solution. I vent both. Don't overfill your oil either.
My issue is the fuckin zip ties that seal the hose to the can. I gotta dump It ever 1k It’s mostly condensation etc.. not much of that milky shit it’s mostly cleanish liquid. Gonna do some compression fittings and SS lines and set the cam elsewhere. On a M8.. vent back into the TB .. and in 7k miles gonna have a high compression piston. I did add the fueling dipstick and make sure to stay 4 dots down in the dipstick. Yea the wiping shit off the rear heat shield is annoying Af
The common mistake is? What are you using inside? I started using tampons. Yes! That’s right I said it tampons. It absorbs most of the oil and you don’t have to change it as much. You still have to put a little bit of mesh on the top, but stick the tampon all the way in you may have to cut it to fit but oil mist went away
if you or anybody else is losing that much oil thru the vent you have a RING problem and nothing is gonna fix that unless you remove the cylinders and put new rings in it.
I would like to have your old backing plate with the external breather if you still have it? I have the same filter and would like to run a external breather
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Back before the EPA, engines had a road draft tube. It vented to the ground.
Be sure that your oil level is between the empty and the full mark and not to the full mark. You shouldn't be getting that much crankcase vapor.
You're exactly right! I'm amazed someone else has figured out the correct oil level. I've watched a dozen of these guys that got suckered in these silly catch cans,and think how is it possible they can't figure out how to properly change oil.
Biggest problem is ppl think they need to check oil level with bike standing straight up level. Everything is designed for you to check oil level with bike leaned over on kick stand. Many many ppl over fill oil bc of that
@@Rollanotheronemyfriend If you actually ride the damn thing instead of polishing it all the time there will be oil vented out of engine into the breather, regardless of oil level. Keeping the right oil level does help though, most overfill!! 70+ is the only way to roll!!
@CatfishLove well I do ride it,and I don't polish it. Yes a very small amount of oil finds It's way to the air filter even with correct oil level. But many people over fill, these people think a catch can is the remedy. They should instead learn proper oil level.
Its called Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV). Its been done in some manner on internal combustion engines forever.
Where you installed your catch can, I just ran a longer hose (no catch can) under the engine and through the frame skid plate. Its vented to the atmosphere. I did not plug the two holes in the air breather assembly. I get a little oil drip, through the external breather hose, not much. I keep an eye on it.
You could extend your hose and mount your catch can under the engine somewhere. That way you're not spraying water into the can when you wash your bike. It cannot suck water into the can, riding in the rain, as it has positive crankcase pressure going into the can.
I too made an external breather system on my HD Heavy Breather. However, I ran the hoses up and over the throttle body, put a Y fitting under the gas tank, then ran the one hose up and over the battery and into the right side cover (cam side of the bike). I put a small K&N filter in there, then I zip tied a HD soft cloth around the filter. I replace the soft cloth every few rides. There was no oil in the side cover. This has worked very well.
You certainly received a lot of responses, both for and against external breathers.
What I don’t see is the point that any engine will run better with cold clean air than with hot oily air
I never dyno’d my bike, but definitely felt a difference going from stock to external breathing
I simply use less oil than the full amount recommended by the service manual. A HD Master Tech taught me that and it solved the problem. I will occasionally get a very small amount of blow by but nothing like it was. Finally, I use Seafoam every 5K miles.
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Sea foam in the oil/ gas or both???
@@johnjohnson2855 you can do both. You certainly don't have to do every 5k like me. I just do it out of habit. For oil, be very careful and follow the instructions. You don't want to overfill the oil tank so be sure to exchange some oil out for the Seafoam going in.
Cars have a CPV (crankcase positive ventilation) valve. It is not an EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) valve. Those are two completely separate functions done for different reasons. The external breather on the bike is roughly equivalent to the CPV function. Bikes don't have an EGR at all, at least not in my experience. If catch-cans for bikes were done properly, they would vent out through a hose back to the intake, in theory without the oily crap. Due to how the head ports and intake plate are designed, getting the dirty vapor out and a clean return back isn't easy (mechanically) so most systems just vent the can to atm. Also, those cans are simply too damn small which is why most of them fart oil out the vent holes.
Run the hose below the bike to a filter, not a can. Problem solved, I've been doing it for years with no issues. Not trying to be condescending, genuinely trying to help.
What type/size filter would you rerecommend. I was going to get a can but after reading several comments it seems your option makes the best sense. Run through the frame and out the bottom to filter. 15 fxdf 103.
Did the exact same thing you did and never had any issue. It's been 2 years now. Also the bike runs so much better.
Yup
IMHO, I still think that it’s easier to clean the oil from somewhere in the exterior of the bike than to clean the carbon build up from the top of the piston and the valves. Just place your catch can somewhere sheltered from the rain and clean it often. Before EPA regulations, all the internal combustion engines just vented the oil from the crankcase to the atmosphere, including Harleys.
Let’s see the government uses old dirty oil I drop off at Autozone to coat our streets (slur coat) to protect the streets but me dropping a small amount of oil onto street is an EPA violation. Such BS!!
I believe your breather assembly in the rocker area is bad. Easy way to test them is remove the engine drain plug with the oil fill cap still on if there good oil will barely come out. If oil pours out like when you have the filler cap off then your breathers are not closing. The umbrella seal can be replaced separately so you don't need to buy the entire assembly. As mentioned i run my external hoses under the engine. Very little oil comes thru the hose if your breathers are working properly.
Bingo!
Different catch cans work differently. I've installed catch cans on racing engines that work flawlessly. You buy cheap you get cheap. Mine in my 2016 road king has never squirted any oil anywhere but in the can I installed. My bike has 37,000 miles on it and still runs like new! I've seen bikes with just a filter hanging off their engine not dripping a thing. I've seen catch cans with water inside but here in Florida the humidity can be 120% so it's advised to check the can. I'm also careful not to get any water inside any part of any engine. Internal combustion engines do not run off hydrogen. Stock intakes are known for collecting water. Mine did so I switched it out to an Arlen Ness.
What brand of catch can do you run?
I did mine the same exact way and ran a hose through the frame no problem at all!!
not much exccess oil at all.
You have a blowback problem. oil is going past your cylinder walls and pistons. I would get that checked out!
Hope you don't get oil running down inside your air filter. The way the backing plates ( Screaming Eagle, Big Sucker,etc) are designed is supposed to catch all the oil blowby and send it into the throat of the TB but it don't...at least the ones that I have owned didn't. I fixed mine to burn all the oil drip, not some bc I didn't want oil running down inside my air filter. I will be glad to share my fix with anyone interested in knowing how I did it. Great job on the video! Thank you
How did you feed it into the intake?
I can certainly understand wanting to ditch that particular catch can. I may give the DK Customs catch can a go. Its internals are much different than the one you showed, and I haven't heard about it having the spitting issue. The DK has 4 levels of foam separated by perforated separators. Nice garage by the way.👍
Digging the ceilings in that shop
I just ran a simple breather filter under the frame. I don’t get much mist on the filter. When I wash the bike (which is not that often) I give the filter a couple of squirts of degreaser and wash it off with the water hose. No mess no fuss. Looks like you had more of a water problem than oil. I always cover my air filter with a plastic bag when I wash the bike. Maybe you could have covered the breather filter when you washed the bike🤷
I have mine just like his and always cover it,no water leak and no oil leaks
After installing updated oil pump in my 2018 M8 114. I have no carryover. No catch can needed. Intake is nice and clean.
Have had my catch can from dk custom for over two years never had that problem. But mine has three separate filters with with thin plastic washers between each one never shoots out oil
If your vent hose and can are puking a constant oil mist, you may have bigger problems. Likely bad rings and a ton of blowby causing excessive crankcase pressure. Your bike - your choice. But I think you are just addressing a symptom, and not the problem. Time will tell.
I'm running a simple paper filter on my '95 Electra Glide Classic and I don't get that much oil. Are you overfilling your crankcase? I don't get the blowby you are talking about. Sorry you're having the issues.
I cut a small 7/16 hose and and glued it to the inner entrench of the catch can that goes about 1/3 down. Im hoping when the oil starts dripping into the can, it will be at least 1/3 down the can already, rather going out the catch can which will be the path of least resistant without that little extra hose
EGR is exhaust gas recirculate. You dealing with oil vapors caused by crankcase pressure.
I'm running the exact same catch can on my 2016 Softail Slim and , in my case anyway, there is hardly any oil collected in it and I haven't noticed any oil mess around it at all. ( I have it mounted down near the tranny and it's clean all around it). But, each machine is different and your machine seems to be be slushing more oil out that mine does.
You catch can looks more like a filter. They have much better cans for this purpose. For the record, i dont have one on any of my bkes but so far they are not spitters. If they were, the air filter would be oily and i will get a catch can, one that it designed and installed in a effective place on the bike. You may have bad umbrella valves or too much oil in the crankcase. Try running the level between full and low, but always above low. Good video, you verified my opinion, don't use it if it is not dripping from or wetting your air filter.
The position of the can is definitely wrong. I also put an external breather on the bike but the hose from air filter goes back into the olil reservoir and a second hose with an air cleaner goes behind the right side cover.. So only air goes out and any oil runs back. And it is protected against water.
you answered my question. I kept wondering about all the sumping issue talk. I have been checking my stock 2023 107 M8 FOR THE MESS MANY ARE SAYING WILL HAPPEN. Mine has been clean so far. I will wait on the catch can. thanks
Why not just run the line down to the ground without the catch can. Worked on all bottom breathers for years.
I think it still might get oil under the bike and drip out when it's parked.
@@628customs Works on mine and occasionally leaves a small drop under the bike. Better than oil in the combustion chamber.
I would get a drop smaller than a dime@@628customs
I use a small red filter instead of a can, works great. I run mine back infront of the tranny, and don't get water on it or in it. Love the pipe plumbed shelfing on the wall there vary cool
I rebuilt my TC at 55k miles. No catch can. I run sea foam often. I had 1/8” of oil carbon on top of both pistons and inside the combustion chambers. I installed catch can as part of the build. I have 80k on it now when I get to 100k will pull it back down, but I’m confident that it won’t be oil carbon up again.
If you’re blowing that much oil it may be indicative of another issue. Maybe need to change the one way portion of the pvc system in the head. Until then…
You should of drained the can more often. However, You do you…
As other people have commented, it's not an EGR, that's being changed it's the PVC. Harleys haven't been running it back through the engine forever. That started with the EVO. Shovelheads don't have that crap.
I thought PVC, stood for poly vinyl chloride,= plastic pipes?
Positive crankcase ventilation
I’ve pretty got the same set up except for the catch can,instead ,I have a breather filter on mine,no oil has been sprayed out or slowly leaked out,I’ve had it on since July of 2023,it’s Dec 2023 and winter in Ohio and the bike is stored,but I’m gonna watch your video the whole way through and see what your doing,your input is appreciated
2019 Road King…..vented breathers to atmosphere below the bike, hose under the bike isn’t oily at all….. check it when I change the oil, dry. Plus, my oil levels between changes stay on the full till about 2500 miles then I can add 1/2 qt. For the remainder of the 5000 miles…. Clean oil filter and intake.
well your catch can should have wire mesh at the top of the can with a piece of foam to keep any oil from escaping. not using a catch can will let the oil vent back into your motor and be reburned but after awhile it will hurt your performance. your throttle plate butterflies well start getting clogged with oil residue will cause lag in throttle response and the bike won't idle the it should. if you have that much blow by then your rings are probably shot
I have the same , except I run 2 hoses down below the frame,but don’t get a lot of oil dripping!
I think you followed your great instinct and fought what I and millions with me call a FACT.., Oil-fumes makes carbon debris on the top of your pistons AND on your Valves..period ! BUT..if the solution for you..NOT to extend the breather hose down and out..plus get rid of the ridiculous filter you installed,..you did right ! Ride free Bro ✊🏻🇺🇸☠️
I'm sure this was a very informative video the problem is I couldn't hear a word you were saying!
if you're pushing that much oil out, you have excess crankcase pressure, you need to vent the crankcase. I had an external breather setup on my 2016 twin cam SGS, I vented to atmosphere and never had a problem, that bike had 38k miles when I traded it in on my 2023 RGS, which also has an EBS vented to atmosphere. Guessing your bike has a lot of miles, if you're pushing that much oil out from crankcase pressure...
Vent that shit to the ground do not buy any gimmicks in between..
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For those that have the same issue, and don't want to remove the catch can, that catch can of his isnt quite right..it needs an internal down tube to release the oily gas deep in the can..but to make this system work better, create an elevated rise in your vent tubes before the lead down I to the catch can.. You don't want an all-down-hill run for this head valve oil, but only the pressured oil vapor to make it to the catch can..if you still have too much making it to the can, consider venting the engine case (you might be getting alot of case pressure) Also be sure to run you hog about up to half way Mark on your dipstick (when properly measured) but also keep your total added hose length short as the vent system will gain/collect additonal condensation that can run into the catch can, and fill it up quicker than just oil vapor
Depending on which engine your F150 has it would benefit more from a catch can. My F150 is direct injection so fuel does not have a chance to clean off the back side of the intake valves. My RG is port injection so fuel hits those valves and cleans them.
It shouldn’t be blowing that much oil. Sounds like you’ve got something else going on.
That was my thoughts also. I have a similar catch can as he shows and I have no problem with "oil mist". If he's blowing that much oil there's another problem.
@@richardtillman4277 my guess is the motor has a ton of miles and it's got extreme levels of crankcase pressure...
The buildup on top of the piston will increase compression.
Just run hose to ground behind oil cooler on my 18 road king special. No dramas
certainly running the crankcase pressure breather output to the intake will be cleaner. And they do this for emissions, The "oil vapor" going into the combustion chamber theoretically burns and doesn't go to the atmosphere as hydrocarbons. This is not a panacea however. Depending on the quality of your piston ring-cylinder seal, how hot it is outside, how hot the engine is, how hard you are working the engine and at what RPM and for how long, and depending on how old your oil is and the quality of oil, there will be more or less "oil mist" that enters the combustion chamber. Best case scenario is that it burns off incognito, though in reality, this will never be the case. Worst case scenario is that the "oil mist" pollutes your intake charge and causes carbon deposits and resultant pinging and changes in adaptive fueling and engine performance and, ultimately, reduced engine performance and engine life.
I've got 92,500 miles on my '09 Sporty and just recently switched to an external breather system after re-sealing my intake manifold. YUCK! The inside of the throttle body and intake manifold was a nasty mess. I keep my oil level right in the middle of the dipstick and a minute amount of oil comes out of the breather tube.
I'd recommend running your hoses upward instead of downward as far as where you drill for those fittings, I would drill on the upper/top part of the standoff and then go up under your tank to the left side of the bike and then run a longer hose back somewhere where you can hide a filter, I don't like catch cans myself I prefer a small filter.
If you have that much blow by you may have another problem.
I made my PCV tube from 3/8 copper tubing, two 3/8 brass unions and one brass 3/8 x 3/8 x 3/8 "T" fitting.
Ran the tube down between the transmission and towards the ground.
Who cares what it looks like, it works.
Now, back in the days of yore engine PCV was a simple hose running from the engine and all the way back behind the rear fender.
You can still get creative and make one from steel or copper tubing and hide it under your rear fender?
Venting the crankcase into the air cleaner creates a number of problems if there is appreciable oil carry-over (which can happen for many reasons, some listed below). Oil, introduced into the combustion chamber through the intake tract, will create carbon deposits on the piston crown, increasing compression and potentially causing harmful detonation. Carbon deposits can also cause piston rings to seize in their grooves, which increases blow-by into the crankcase and reduces oil control along the cylinder walls. Both will lead to even more oil in the combustion chamber, further aggravating carbon build-up. Blow-by of the combustion gases into the crankcase introduces acids into the oil and also causes oil contamination and/or fuel dilution, all of which increase engine wear. Also, if the air-filter is over-oiled due to carry-over, the engine is going to run rich, causing even more carbon deposits.
great job on the video my friend!
Considering how many stock HD bikes run way past 50k miles, I don't know that there's any real advantage to oil catch-cans. I mean sure, the intake will stay cleaner but if the rest of the bike wears out regardless then I don't see much advantage. If an engine does eventually get a rebuild then everything will get cleaned out anyway. I wish HD designed these things better because it's less than ideal, but all things considered in the long run, I don't think it's such a big deal. I've been running my Sportster for 15 years and when I replace the spark plugs, I look into the chambers with my little scope-cam and the pistons and valve heads look just fine. There's no massive buildup of carbon or gunk or anything and the plug electrodes look exactly as they should. The bike runs great and I've been tracking the mileage in a log for years and it still gets 40+ mpg just like when it was new. No catch-can for me.
My 1994 Honda Goldwing has 321,215 original miles and has never needed a catch can or any mechanical work done to it. Brakes tires batteries spark plugs and that’s been it. Quality is Quality period.
I've been on the fence about putting an external breather on my bike. My question to you is if you covered the catch can with a baggie to prevent water from entering during the bike wash, would that have helped eliminate the oily mist from blowing back on your wife and the bike and changed your mind about remove it?
Oil level between half and low is your best bet.
My old iron head has a tube that runs under the bike.
Yeah, I’d worry more about the cleanliness of my bike instead of the health of my motor. Harley use to run a breather hose out to the ground until the epa got involved. Harley used to care about their customer base until they woke up.
It's not about the cleanliness of the bike as it is the safty of not having oil spray on the the rear tire and brake, the ideal plan would be to vent it higher where the oil won't leak out but the gases vent out. Just my opinion
I have one on my Chevy truck also. My 2020 Street Glide has DK Customs ETB. No mess on my bike!
Since its not direct inject the gas still wash's intake valves and piston,run good gas,oil,and intake cleaner every once in a while,should keep everything happy.
I put the Trask transmission cover vent on my M8 zero issues.
Seems like your catch can wasn't "catching". Just put the Trask CheckM8 on mine which blows into a filter. Tucked under the seat.
A free breathing exhaust and intake along with quality oils will do more for an engine than most modifications. That said water cooling is the surest way and is the future of these engines, doing it without ruining the nostalgic look is the only thing in the way. Also positive crankcase ventilation proper set up eliminates the drool. Some research into oil flowback in the heads might be a consideration as long as it does not create more cooling problems.
EGR is exhaust gas recirculation, has nothing to do with crankcase ventilation.
But your dealing with is PCV, positive crankcase ventilation, completely different from one another.
Lower the catch can and quit filling the oil all the way up to the full line. 1/4 quart lower and you probably wouldn't be spraying oil all over anything.
the oil will keep parts from rusting
There's not much worry about carbon buildup on port injected systems on engines anyway.
Direrct injected systems in vehicles may need cleaning more often from carbon buildup on valves because there's no fresh fuel washing over the valves like you would get from intake port injectors above the valves. Carbon buildup on pistons and valves still occurs on any other system anyway, but you would have to put a ton of miles on the engine. My Harley is nearly 20 years old and has the sequential port injection system. Never used a catch can. Kept the backing plate stock. Still never had much carbon buildup issues. Just put additives in your fuel once in a while.
Keep your oil half way. Modern fuel with cleaners in them will help with any carbon build up in your engine.
I had the same or similar problem. I had the D/K Customs setup. It was always filling with water vapor. And had to be dumped daily. Very annoying. I bought the Trask vented transmission cover. Problem solved.
All that unnecessary rambling is irritating. Just show us what you did and what parts you used total time 3 minutes. 3 minutes of useful info with 9 minutes of unnecessary worthless chatter.
if you've got that much oil coming out one of two things is happening. either your oil level is to high. or you've got another problem maybe its just a faulty umbrella valve. or you getting to much head pressure.
I don't have one and I have no problems nor do I have any oil in my air cleaner. This is something needed if you have worn pistons or rings.
I have yet to see a motor destroyed by the blow by. Not worth the hassle imo.
You are fighting gravity. The reason it's spraying is because it isn't actually venting the crankcase back to the intake. It's pushing liquid oil through the 'vents' under a bit of pressure.
A "breather" should always above the fumes source rising up from below (think breathers on a V8's valve covers). A catch can, is right for your configuration, but no breather down there, a catch with a drain port. Your breather should be sourced from the same plumbing as the catch, but UP, slightly above all sources of fumes/gas and residual oil into that loop. The breather is a vent. Air goes up, oil goes down.
Run oil 1/2 quart low and you will never see the oil mist again!!!
If you have that much mist coming out then you have a blow by problem or too much oil in the engine problem, not a catch can problem.
i installed a feuling vented dipstick and i still get blow by. i think a lot of it comes from how you ride. if you stay north of 3000 rpms most of the time you going to have more of a problem with it. you really don't know how much you getting until you pull that throttle body off and look in that intake manifold. excessive blow by is the result of improper engine break in anyway.
You might consider a hose in and hose out catch can with a oil catch medium inside..i made my own..a 1 -2 ounce can, and put it in my airbox, so what doesnt collect in or on the meduim, get back into the intake..not anywhere else
The catch can was poorly designed. The mist was just coming into the can at the top and bouncing off the filter media. I made a can out of a fuel filter, attached a writing pen tube to the bottom of the can. I then cut a passageway for the pen tube to go through so the mist was entering the can at the bottom. My filter media only fills up the can about 3/4 of the to the top. It works real good. Mine was patterned after DK Custom's $80.00 can. I spent about $8.00 on mine.
Seems like the can needs to have its breather holes not on the top of the catch can but rather drilled along the side of the can at a 45 degree downward angle.
I love my Roland Sands Breather
Speaking of water getting into things when washing the bike, I put my wife's shower cap over my Arlen Ness inverted air cleaner when washing the bike. It's a perfect fit.
I use a filter instead a catch can, and dont over fill oil. Havent had any issues. Good luck though! Just run some sea foam in the gas tank periodically :)
Learn to clean the catch can and eliminate the problem!!!
The fact that HD vents the crankcase directly to the intake is borderline criminal. The M8 makes excess crankcase pressure and it destroyed my 2017 FLHTK engine. No motor likes hot intake air especially when the fuel air mixture is contaminated with less combustible oil vapor.
It would cost the motor company more money but considering the places where crankcase pressure can be relieved such as the transmission top cover, the dipstick, etc. it would not be rocket science to run an inline condenser to relieve clean air to the atmosphere and save the condensed remaining oil for disposal. I may even engineer that myself.
When I saw the condition of the tops of my pistons when my motor was taken apart I was shocked by the layer of poorly burned carbon on their tops. As a matter of fact, had I known HD used such a cheap method of ventilation, I would have bypassed the brand.
I have the DK transformer EBS set up.
New motor. Broke it in well. Runs fkn so well. Got that catch can arojnd 1500 Mi. I gotta wipe mist off my rear heat shield all the time.
Added fueling dipstick and it helped some.
It’s not poor ring seal it’s fkn crank pressure.
Yea I run oil down 4 dots.
I blow it all out whwre the hose meets the catch can. But I got just zip ties on it need some hose clamps or better yet compression fittings and SS lines and move can
107
Stage 2
2023 FLTRX
I agree with the mess,..i didn't like it either and removed it .
I tried one as well and they are nothing but problems. The Harley tech told me that venting at the air cleaner can cause issues as it needs some pressure for the rings
I went with the trask transmission cover
It's vented there from the factory, so you're saying that's bad too? EBS just vents outside the air cleaner plate
when you tear down an engine you see the damage. Valves and other components suffer. Pistons just burn it, that is why carbon build up. Over time its a problem for the engine. Your introducing byproducts, exhaust emissions back into the engine, and this eventually causes a problem. All internal combustion engines have blowby and water condensation. Its these products that wear on metal parts. Frequent oil and fluid changes are recommended due to this. The water in your catch can is not from external sources.
And if you have that much oil blowing out your catch can you’ve got more problems than the catch can. And my catch can the holes are about the size of a paper clip.
I think it was the brand and placement that was the problem , ya probably have water teacupping off the bottom of your air cleaner cover going right to the holes on top of catch can , if ya dont know what teacupping is , look it up .....
I have been running one like yours and I have never had any problems with mine in two years. You have a serious problem with the breathers in the heads.
Im not convinced that a little extra oil running into my top end and getting burned is a bad thing anyway, especially with how lean it runs without a tuner, so yeah I let it suck that oil down too.
I don't see what you did. Where Is the oil blow off going now?
I used to have all those same HD issues, then I bought a Yamaha VStar and never looked back, now i never miss a ride and my tools now have dust on them😊
And your resale value compared to a Harley?🤔
@guyh.4121 I only paid $3,100. for a mint completely loaded 1100 XVS classic with low mileage..what do I care about resale..owning an HD is an addiction, your so bound and determined to make that thing reliable and run good but your pushing a giant snowball up hill, and that snowball just keeps getting bigger and bigger, I tried it and decided it wasn't for me
Isn’t VStar a defunct motorcycle company?
@@MrGus4440 Yamaha's version of a cruiser
I thought Yamaha killed the V Star motorcycles?
Oil gets on his wifes shoe is why he changed it!... keep her happy
Synthetic oil does not burn. That's why you see m8 engines with massive carbon build-up on the pistons. Venting the trans cover is a much better solution. I vent both. Don't overfill your oil either.
That's not an EGR. EGR is exhaust gas recirculation. That is PCV. Positive crankcase ventilation.
My issue is the fuckin zip ties that seal the hose to the can.
I gotta dump
It ever 1k
It’s mostly condensation etc.. not much of that milky shit it’s mostly cleanish liquid.
Gonna do some compression fittings and SS lines and set the cam elsewhere.
On a M8.. vent back into the TB .. and in 7k miles gonna have a high compression piston.
I did add the fueling dipstick and make sure to stay 4 dots down in the dipstick.
Yea the wiping shit off the rear heat shield is annoying Af
How come you didn't show the original breather on the bike it's really hard to tell what's going on there?
The common mistake is? What are you using inside? I started using tampons. Yes! That’s right I said it tampons. It absorbs most of the oil and you don’t have to change it as much. You still have to put a little bit of mesh on the top, but stick the tampon all the way in you may have to cut it to fit but oil mist went away
Blow by needs to go into crank case,not intake.must be someway to do it.
if you or anybody else is losing that much oil thru the vent you have a RING problem
and nothing is gonna fix that unless you remove the cylinders and put new rings in it.
If you replace the catch can with a filter and run it up under the gas tank the issue will disappear. No mist and no water.
I would like to have your old backing plate with the external breather if you still have it? I have the same filter and would like to run a external breather
Sorry I sold the plate with the bike.