I spent a few years in my childhood with Ray Buckland..his first wife, Rosemary..and his sons, Robert and Renny. Rosemary was very close to my Irish Catholic grandmother. She planted her herbs in our garden…Raymond did my makeup for my dance recitals…he would hold up cards for me to tell what I saw on them..by the backs. Halloween was something else on our block for the trick or treaters. When they..after a few years..bought their first house in Brentwood, on Long Island in N.Y. We helped move them. I was given the very special task of holding a box with chalices, jars…and Rosemarys Athame…which she usually wore on a special belt. They visited us often..for a period of time in a long white hearse…and we visited them. Lovely, warm, generous people. Just wanted to share as you mentioned his name..thank you! 🥳
Our witchy community has waited for these exact words to be said for a very, very long time. After having seen various content makers literally forbidding their audience from, for example, including any practice from the left hand path because it is immoral and evil, while others are advising people never, ever to read Scott Cunningham's books because he was so very much against using any herbs for banishing that his excessively benevolent influence would be harmful, we really need some sanity, sincerity and tolerance about this. Not to mention those who claim that unless one had a two hour long midnight spectacle, with 3 bats, 5 ravens, 7 wolves, a purple dragon, a shower of black roses and a ghostly apparition of the Goddess herself, then no, one is NOT called by the Morrigan and is not deemed worthy of becoming a member of that particular exclusive club. There is even a YT video of someone who tells other practitioners that, unless they were explicitly invited by the Morrigan herself, they must not attempt to invoke her or work with her because she will PUNISH them... There are all kinds of discouraging and negative claims, demands and even threats out there, disguised as teachings and wisdom, most of which seem to be simply people compensating their inner deficits and low self esteem by posing and pretending to be the chosen ones of their favourite deities. As I said, we really needed this video. Thank you.
@RitualofGhosts That is definitely a thing, yes. Living in a traditional society where everyone immediately equates paganism and witchcraft with satanism, ritual torture, human sacrifice, baby eating and such medieval horror fantasies does make practitioners want to disassociate from those who invoke such persistent prejudice in and rejection from others. It's like being tainted by association with them that frightens many right hand path pagans, who crave to be accepted, respected or at least just left in peace to practice their own spirituality. And most of us are annoyed at this persistent misconceptions of paganism, and would like to share the genuine beauty of a nature based spirituality with others and be seen as we really are, not as the Spanish Inquisition used to see us as. 🙄 But I also think that for many of us, it is not only what others think but also what most of us were raised and conditioned to believe. Even when growing up in a secular society, Satan as a symbol of evil, temptation, cruelty, inhumanity, destruction, death and damnation is present everywhere, we constantly imbibe it in countless ways without even being aware of it, so exploring anything that may be associated with him will stirr all the subconscious fears that we carry within ourselves. I think it is both an issue of confronting all the moral and ethic values of the society we live in, as well as analyzing our own concepts of good and evil.
@RitualofGhosts And in many very traditional and religious segments of the society all around the world, those who do not share that dogma do have to keep quiet about what they believe in and hide their practice, for fear of genuine persecution and being harmed. I have Damien Echols's book "High Magick" on my table right now and his life story perfectly symbolizes exactly just how deep and how dangerous fanatical religious prejudice can be. So in a sense, excluding all left hand path practices is a self preservation instinct in those of us who have trouble accepting the fact that these stupidifying, dogmatic, intolerant misconceptions will stay around for a long, long time... 🤮
If you ask a Hindu if there's only 1 God the Hindu would say yes. If you ask the Hindu if there are many gods the Hindu would say yes. If you ask the Hindu if he/she is God the Hindu will say yes. I have been asked by my students if the deity is real or just their imagination and I say yes. We use imagination to connect and interact with deities. IMO Deities are aspects of ourselves and I believe if toxic spirits show up that it is from a shadow aspect of myself. Thank you for sharing. 😘 💜
I've had teachers tell me "not to" & none of them were right. Years later when you look back you realise many of their behaviours were covertly abusive & were solely centered around power, control & heirarchy. My theory is that if someone has reached that gate that they're asking about or exploring, then they're ready; they're there for a reason.
I've joined a few witchcraft communities on discord and this kind of gatekeeping and fear mongering is everywhere!! I don't understand why that is, maybe people like to just pass themselves off as an authority in any kind of social situation, but i'm so glad you made this video
I'm hearing that there is TONNES of this rhetoric in certain Discord communities. I do not understand the motivation to elevate your own ability and power whilst convincing others that they cannot possibly have any themselves. Frankly, fuck that shit.
Yes I experience this in discord and on Facebook and frankly I questioned myself and wanted to stop practising. I felt I should be reading and not doing. But no….I will learn AND practice. I’m not allowing people to tell me I’m not able to do these things. The gate keeping is real and very prevalent
Thank you for this. So empowering. I've definitely felt like some resources (both online and offline) were taking away my power, and it boggles me that I simply allowed it to happen. I allowed those who TOOK the authority position to take away my power, my sovereignty. So, thank you for this video. It helped me step back into power, sovereignty et cetera. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us.
I remember when studying Satanism and Luciferianism that demons cannot go against your free will. You decide where to go, who to work with, and how. They may test you a bit to see if they even want to work with you, but it resonated with me about the free will part. "No, no, and double no." Like you were saying at the end of this regarding music lyrics and movie lines and pictures of guard dogs. We have the power to do what is needed. Whatever resonates with you to lessen your fear, to get your power back. I totally agree. When I'm feeling down, I put on some Led Zeppelin and suddenly I'm in the 'zone' again. Mind shifting is so damn important when stepping into the roads less traveled. And I love how you said that if people simply do not feel comfortable working with deity, then they should put it aside. Absolutely. We set our boundaries. We can say 'no.'
the dune "fear is the mindkiller" passage often comes to me. in general, what puts this in perspective for me is the fact that I feel like I get - and obey - messages from the universe all the time. the universe! and I think many people have that experience and are used to that sort of noticing and discernment.
YESSS! Someone else mentioned the Dune 'fear is the mindkiller' passage too - it is soooo epic! It reminds me of the energy that my patron god Tyr holds for me. x
I’m a very introspective person but I don’t have the gift of the gab, as they say. I really admire your ability to talk into the camera and talk about these topics. I once was joking with my partner saying I was going to make a TH-cam channel called Witchcraft 102 and any topic will just be me saying “does that feel right to you? No? Don’t do it.” Or “Do you feel that those associations mean something to you? Yes? Great, do it!” It would be so incredibly boring, but it’s so necessary. I’m glad you can put those thoughts into a much more verbose and interesting way. 😆
“Does it make sense to any other witch? I don’t know I don’t give a fuck” yesss! Lol this is why I love your channel and vibe! Love this whole video! I have been told that I need strong protection before working with deities and I didn’t listen because it didn’t vibe with me. One goddess came to me in a dream that I felt drawn to same with the other 2 and I knew deep down that it was right. If it wasn’t my ancestors would let me know or take care of business. I’ve also been told “you can’t have 3 deities, you have one matron and one patron. I truly wrote that the fuck off, because that is what vibes with them not me. I think people put their opinions on people too much, it’s one thing to give advice in your experience but to push on to another your truth and views isn’t right. I find myself loudly going out the back door on anyone fear pushing. That has never been my tea.
I was on a witchy discord server for a little while and heard all this prescriptivism. I realized I had been taking advice from 14 year olds on the internet and promptly stopped hanging out in witchy internet spaces (except for this one). Even in tarot, you get so many readers on TH-cam who bring their shadows and baggage to the advice, and it really ends up spiritually shaming us more than helping. It puts a very fine point on needing to see these shadows in ourselves, in putting effort into listening to our own internal voices and letting our intuition guide us before seeking advice, because really it does a better job than anyone else can. That will look different for everyone. There is no one right path.
My "incantation" against fear comes from Dune, The Litany Against Fear. I don't always remember all the words, but it comes to mind in some form or another when I'm afraid. 😊 "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past, I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
"I don't believe that working with Diety will fuck up my life" THANK YOU! I am sitting at this same table. I dont subscribe to the thought that this is a dangerous or wrong thing to do. In my experience it is rather intuitive and I feel like people who give this advice are bringing it in as a fear, they are fearful so they maybe think everyone needs to be fearful. We can be controlled by fear and people in the craft that gatekeep with fear have their own issues that we aren't discussing here right now.
Its so intresting. I work with deity and i had a experiance that got out of hand, something lower had joined in ,so i stood up and said "im the powerful witch here , get the fuck out of my house !" Worked a charm . No fancy words no extras .you can banish anything if you truely believe in your power.
Divine timing darling. Just the other day I found myself in a scary situation with the real possibility of physical harm, and as I sat there frozen in fear the only thing I could think to do was focus on the totem animal that I first worked with as a tiny witchling. My Tiger! I slowed my breathing and called her up in my mind and boom, she was right there. Standing in front of me, hackles raised, growling menacingly at the threat. It created the feeling of protection for me, and reminded me that I am a fierce fucking tigress and also that I do have tools at my disposal to protect myself. It worked. Period. Thank you for speaking on this topic, and thank you for holdng space and offering info for those of us who do really need protection from harm. (Side note: LOVE the loook today gorgeous!)
Thank you, Kelly-Ann!! I appreciate the mention and for plugging all my links!! It has been so cool to see our discord conversations come to life over here on TH-cam. Anyone who isn't already in the Patreon Discord server really ought to consider joining in. You get the amazing opportunity to explore these topics in real time with Kelly-Ann and others like me. It is totally worth the coin. To anyone interested I have started some notes on a video fleshing out my ideas that Kelly-Ann quoted in this video. I’ve gotten a new camera and editing software so this video will be a bit higher quality than what you may see already on my channel. In this new video I want to discuss the divide I've noticed in witchcraft spaces around whether the craft is dangerous or not. I’ll talk about the real dangers I think we should protect ourselves from and how to discern for yourself if a particular fear is useful or not. There are genuine reasons why someone might want to be afraid of certain aspects of the craft. Keep an eye out for this video over the next month or so on my channel. Link in Kelly-Ann’s description.
I think that fear of deities (or deity) is interconnected with our present situation. Too many deaths around us, financial uncertainty etc. it all creates existential fears that we than transfer to our faith. We start believing that we did something wrong in our connection to deity or that is something wrong with deity in the first place. it's in fact very old fear that plagued humanity from the beginning of consciousness.
I come from a place that everything comes from my own conciousness/gnosis. Comprised of ontology and eptimology. Especially as a chaote. It's attuned completely to my perceptions, belief and reality.
I agree with much of what you've said. I'm a pretty hard polytheist, and I've never felt that approaching a deity was a dangerous thing to do. Maybe the relationship will work out, maybe it won't, but that's the worst that will really happen. And as for things masquerading as deity, well, if something doesn't feel right, don't engage with it. It seems like people like to over complicate things. There's a certain amount of this in the heathen community too - a subset of people who like to proclaim everyone else is doing it wrong, and they also tell folks that you should only focus on your ancestors at home and that deities don't care about the individual and should only be approached in a community setting etc etc- that of course makes it awfully difficult for those of us who are solitary, nor does it jive with my own experiences or the experiences of plenty of other people. And there's some funny ideas about magic as well. I understand someone not being comfortable using magic or using runes for divination, because they don't know how it was done back in the day. But I don't understand why that should be a limiting factor for anyone else (I see magical and divinitory practices as tools - if it works, why not use it?). At the end of the day, it's just a lot of gatekeeping. I've gotten pretty good at tuning all those people out - their opinions on how things should be done have zero to do with me.
I love that you made this video. You've always been so grounded and empowering and permissive and a wise perspective. The fear-mongring and gatekeeping is largely coming from tiktok... It's just.. a bunch of insecure people trying to tell others what to do so they can feel powerful and authoritative. It's really really frustrating and ridiculous.
Thanks so much for your kind words, darling. I totally agree about so much of this rhetoric just being a bloody power grab! 🙄 It's lovely to see your name and face In my comments. Hope you are well x
I'm always floored by the wisdom you bring to these types of topics & conversations. Your thoughts ring so true to me, love it, love it, love it. You are my damn hero, Kelly-Ann.
lmao what you said around 17:50 and deities masquerading as other deities reminds me of a friend who works with freya; and i enjoy suggesting to them that they're actually being catfished by loki
Sure, but just because you believe something is powerful doesn't mean you can be convinced to believe it is inherently dangerous. The two things are not synonymous in my mind. 🙂 Also, power is subjective. As I said in the video, I don't see deities as any more powerful than humans. And I associate with humans all the time.
Someone also has to consider the type of relationship with deity, long term or transactional. Daily offerings and long term devotion are very different than calling for a favor once and forgetting them.
As I live in U.S., I think Hollywood puts out so many horror movies that make people fear w/ the mindset u were discussing. Everything from that old movie, The Exorcist, to newer ones, where young ladies r playing the ouija, & all of their candles go out suddenly etc, etc.
I recall a video by MirthandReverence where she said, basically, that she doesn't build her circle with the intent to keep things out. That building a circle out of fear of negative energies my take on it is that building a practice from fear of those energies is like putting a target on yourself/whatever your doing and inviting them to come fuck with you. Kind of like putting a big, obvious security system up. It might discourage some, it alsi lets them know that there is something there that might be worth the challenge. Lock the doors, but don't put up a sign that flashes "tasty treat" or something.
After some bad experiences in the Pagan community, I'm so grateful for content creators like you and Three Pagans and a Cat who say that we are allowed to set boundaries with deities. I don't want to go back to the religious trauma I suffered in Christianity where their god "forced" me to do things I didn't want to do. Love your talks!! 💞💙💚🦆 I remember a while ago when you talked about working with popular figures in media. Well, I've been using a Hermione Harry Potter wand (one of their products) to cast my circles and it feels so powerful and protective to me, more than any wand I've used before. ☺️🧡
This is amazing! I have been a witch for 30 something years. I have tried to stay clear of the formulatic/dogmatic sects. They remind me of the religion I grew up in. Thall shall not because that's only for the knowledge keepers, and they have been studying it all their lives. That type of closed system reminds me of people who don't want to share their power, if their is only one place to go. I believe that knowledge should be in the hands of those who want it. That we make the magic, so if something doesn't work for you, but works for others doesn't mean that you are bad at it, it just means it doesn't work for you. I don't believe that deamons are out and about masquerading as deities - What I do believe --my personal belief-- is that sometimes we are drowning and don't have confidence in our own power that we want to believe that others are messing with us. Can it happen, sure, I don't believe that it happens all the time, I believe that it's rare. I believe that their are non-human enterties but they do not have the human experience, they may not do things according to human values, understanding, or any other things humans see. I think the best protection is the be confident in yourself, to have a tailsman that you can grasp, and to live your best life. I went to a Samhain circle once and felt like I was in the Church of my youth and it left a bad taste in my mouth, but do realize that to others this might be a comfort.
It's amazing how lyrics and movie lines can be so powerful. For me it was always a take that lyric that made me feel strong. "In the darkness you must enter the code. Crack the combination all on your own"
Spot on. The moment someone insinuates there is some special circle that they belong to that is only available to them because of their specialness. My bullshit detectors start screaming. I make my own party thank you. And as you said : I am fully capable of decrement and protecting myself. I also agree that what Ryan said is interesting and wonder too if it’s a hold over from the dogmatism of certain religions where only the priestly caste has access to the divine - maybe it’s unconscious or maybe some folks need to use that model to manipulate. Either way - I can meditate my own relationships thanks. Great video
wow great response to these sort of claims. for me I would be afraid not to work with a deity if they contacted me because I would be afraid that I was abandoning part of myself if I chose to ignore them.
Saw this posted last night and I'm glad I waited to listen and internalize this morning. These words of Power are intrinsic to every day life as well as magical practice. In my case my Power song is I'll Attack by 30 seconds to Mars. Power of Love is definitely a vibe.
i love how you described your relationship with deity, deification and deityhood. and how you got into how your handlings of your human relationships converts to your relationships with deity.
When I need to be empowered or need a shift inside, I listen to music that can ignite that shift and flame up the strength or inspiration that I need in the moment. And when I need to purify myself, I sing in the shower or I take shower, four times a day if needed. Or I light a candle, esp. when I'm angry - it cools me down, centers me. Sage doesn't do thing for me in protection, I'd rather use mint (mostly as a tea), possibly basil (in cooking). But the music and singing is the quickest solution to protect myself, also it calms me, relieves bottled emotions. I like the chant "Kali Durga" as well, but it transcenses me too much sometimes, and I can't handle that state so I don't use it mostly. Also I find it interesting about the dog picture. For years, I had four pictures hanging above my bed. I didn't feel safe and I was very anxious. I moved in a flat with a friend, had a new room for myself, was really happy about that. And brought the pictures with me. After like two weeks, it came to such an extreme paranoic state of mind again and I decided that two of those pictures might actually be not good to hang over my bed anymore. They reminded me of time in which I wasn't feeling well, I thought that they are empowering me (possibly by reminding me of the journey that I took from those moment of being emotionally fucked up) but now I don't think that anymore. I put them away so I don't see them. I felt so much better that night and the nights further the line. I don't know why it didn't occure to me before. I really don't need to display everything everytime.
Your protection measures really resonate with me! Especially the Franky goes to Hollywood thing 💓 I was always wondering if anyone else resonates with this song in this way 💓 love it!
Alohas! Solo practitioner in NY, not the city, the burbs, and I have yet to meet many Practitioners who weren't still puberty-minded with Power issues; Your channel is so refreshingly mature in its view, You are Steeped in the Tea! ^________^! Thank you again, surrogate older Craft sister, for the delicious reason-ability with which you Trull the Mystery! (Personally, mantra chanting for ten years straight, I'll probably whisper the mantra "Thank You Source" last, hopefully later on)
I love your words. Personally, I believe that wrong, and fear, are mere errors of mind. I love These famous words by Rumi say "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I'll meet you there". So I will meet you there my beautiful friend (;
I have been having dreams every night about Santa Mureta and think of her every day and I was told by tarot reader today that works with Santa Mureta when I tried to get some information that I wasn't ready to work with santa mureta I felt so humliated being told that.
I’ve been doing a lot of self-discovery when it comes to deity work and spirits of all kinds. Hearing you talk about transferring the way you connect with humans over to the spirit world clicked for me. And oh my fucking word! Your advice on protection rocked. The way you described feeing protected after doing your work is exactly what I want, but have never felt. Though I can say when I blast some TOOL I feel like I can do anything and can’t be touched so I’m gonna start there. Thank you 😊💗
@@kelly-annmaddox seriously! I’ve always said that listening to Tool is way more of a spiritual experience for me. 🤣 I’m currently listening and following along to Rebel Witch and it’s so so good. It’s the witchy book I wish I had back when I was anointing myself with juniper oil and calling out for the goddess on my front porch the summer before 10th grade 😂
*watches intently, then at **24:01** a giggly electronic sound emits* Not gonna lie that sound almost made me jump 3 feet in the air😂 *resumes watching as if the sound never happened*
Yeah, that was crazy. I scrolled looking for this,...'uh anyone else gunna mention this?' haha. Glad it was on the video and not in my room and seems to have just been someone splashing in the sea then.
This was really great, thanks Kelly-Ann x It took yrs for me to fully embrace my deity. They kept popping up throughout my teens and early 20s but I was cautious. It wasnt fear so much as I wanted to be respectful. I take any commitment of relationship to be serious and mutually beneficial. I feel a lot of fear in deity connection is a hang over from peoples trauma from the mainstream religions. Personally I feel too many people jump into guiding and teaching others too quickly. Too often people are giving away their personal power to both other practitioners and beings. My go to song for feeling protected and in my power is Donna Summer's "I feel love" 😆 It just really works for me.
Another FANTASTIC video Kelly-Ann. Thank you for starting this conversation. I am a priestess of The Morrigan and I can attest to years of other people’s fears getting in the way of my connection with Her. I wholeheartedly agree with your point about caveats. I feel like no matter how long someone has been doing something in the craft there should always be consideration for the fact that we are speaking from our own perspective and that is not gospel. Also - the fear that a god(des) could actually be a demon is VERY Catholic in nature. Or, at least the type of Catholicism I was raised with. No shade to the Catholics, but that type of fear has no place in my spiritual practice.
Thank you for your take on this topic Kelly-Ann; also may I say without seeming superficial that you look stunning! Your wording and presence are beautiful per the usual. XX
Idk how you do it, but you always have a way of making the exact video I didn’t know that I needed. I especially LOVED and needed to hear your discussion of protection practices. I’ve also been thinking about it today and in all my years of Catholic indoctrination I was never ONCE warned that a demon might try to intercede when praying to “God”. Why would it be any different for other deities?
I’m at 15:15 in the video and had to pause to write this comment. There is definitely something going on in the collective unconscious for this issue to arise. I actually wrote in my journal last night about my views on deity in regards to pantheism and, word for word, wrote; “I feel deities and spiritual beings are concepts and Egregores. They are culminations of energy and intent formed through interactions with human thoughts and psyches. They allow us to conceptualise divinity in a way our minds can comprehend”. If that’s not a sign of tapping in to something, then I don’t know what is! Thank you for sharing your thoughts again
I love this video Kelly-Ann This is a really interesting topic. I’ve certainly had some experiences with energies I would say weren’t pleasant and would say were negative. They were very scary experiences at the time. Not Deity, but made me very afraid of Deity and the spirit world. Looking back, I wonder how much of that was being fed by the environment I was in or where I was mentally at the time. I have experienced energies since that have been heavy and too overwhelming for me, and probably would have been frightening for some ppl. But I love what you’re saying about reflecting on your own gnosis. Personally, I do have a certain tentative approach with working with any other entity - human or on the spiritual. But when a Deity is ,what I call persistent, I tend to try to have some “dialogue”. There is a reason they have showed up at that time.
Do you have a similar video talking about working with “lesser “ spirits(ie ancestors, familiars, spirits of places, fae, etc)? I’d be interested in your perspectives on those sorts of relationships with spirits.
I see you’ve uploaded and I’m like YES get the kettle on. See that it’s about deity YEEEES. I hate people trying to put their hard and fast rules on me. I’m faaairrly new to the craft. I also feel once people know that, they can try and tell me it’s too soon. That I’m getting ahead of myself. I experience so much of it in certain communities. It’s deflating and I’ve allowed it to make me upset. I respect deity and the power, but I feel no fear. Your words and thoughts give me power. Not even because of what you believe necessarily, but because you are giving us the permission to create our own path! I would love to sit in a cosy pub and just chat with you and some other witches!! What a day that would be. Thank you, I’ve watched so many of your videos you feel like a friend to me. ( fan girl or what haha!)
I LOVE the length of your videos and I love how I can go for a long walk and hear about this interesting topic until I'm back home again. Big hugs from Sweden 🇸🇪🌷
great discussion. The magick worker's perspective is important to the experiential outcome and the law of attraction may be an influence based on the practitioner's focus and goals. Risk is relative.
It seems to me that any spirit "dressing up" as a Divine Being can only do so if they have knowledge of the Divine Being. With such knowledge I can't really see why a spirit would risk the wrath of the "original".
It’s amazing how much I’ve heard lately about deity being dangerous especially on TikTok. Thank you so much for talking on this and giving your insights! It was so refreshing and empowering!
It absolutely does not surprise me to learn that the two hotbeds for this nonsense gate-keeping are TikTok and Discord. The kids need some guidance I think.
I'm not on TikTok, but I don't think I've ever heard any advice someone got there that I was like "yeah, that's good!" It seems really fear-based and extreme. If your spiritual practice can be described as "fear-based and extreme", you're probably doing something wrong.
I just had a discussion about this where indeed someone claimed that deity work was dangerous, amazingly time consuming and expensive (why??). Since I, too, view magic as something that is part of life, and deity as part of that (the way you described them is the first time I heard it put into words), I kind of went in hard againt it (respectfully, of course). Because I do think that witchcraft is empowering and I would never want to scare new or uncertain witches away from things that could be empowering. That said, I did not think that for some it could add to the sacredness and the excitement of working with deity. That was not a point that I had considered, so thank you, for showing a different side as well, and keeping the discussion open. Lovely video.
This is so interesting. I think it is good to go in hard against that kind of opinion if the person espousing it is doing so in teaching capacity. Like, if it is just a PERSONAL experience that they are sharing, that's fine. (Although it sounds a bit saddening, that connecting with deity should cost them any money.) It could be a potent way for them to practice. But if someone tries to tell me or others that 'dangerous, time-consuming and expensive' are the stipulations for deity work then... yeah, I am going to rile against that forever because it's BS. 🤣 Thanks for watching and I'm glad that we share a view on the nature of deity. Very cool x
@@kelly-annmaddox That was indeed my thought as well. It was made as a sort of bulletpoint list warning people to think on this before they started working with deity. But honestly, it just came across as fearmongering and that raises my hackles as nothing else. "Remember, working with deity is a life-long commentment!" Oh, no it is not!
THANK YOU SO MUCH for this video! I've been scared off of working with deity from everything that's been said in the community, and I've been a witch for over 20 years! I think a lot of people can benefit from a more measured and capable perspective. Edited to add: I'm going to watch the last 5 minutes of this whenever I want to feel like a badace! 😁
I love that you mentioned how connecting with humans is a transferable skill because after I started working with Hecate I realised she was actually teaching me how to have a healthy relationship with humans. It was so helpful for me and has improved my relationships with humans massively. On the point of fearmongering, unfortunately I think some of it is on purpose as a way for certain people to protect their own view of themselves as an "expert" in the Craft. I see it so often as a way for someone insecure to elevate themselves and put themselves in a position of power. OMG, suddenly realising why The Power of Love is such an epic song! Team Ribeana! I've been living off warm Ribeana while I've been ill!
Thank you for saying this! For me, some things feel right and I'm ready to take that trip or jump off that cliff. For me, some things feel like climbing Mt. Everest, and I need to start by walking around the block, and build up to climbing a mountain. Thank you for being real!
An excellent video and I overall agree with your perspectives. The demon in disguise issue sounds like ex-Christian fear based thinking. After I left Christianity and started exploring Paganism, I came from a place of fear for a long time, because that's what I was used to. I've done a lot of work to leave that behind. I've also learned that nasty sh*t is out there and can affect you, but you can do stuff to deal with it. I don't focus much on that stuff so it generally doesn't affect me. In having experienced some of that, not deity related, I do think that for some stuff a certain level of knowledge and experience can help the process of dealing with it. There are a few people I would consider spiritual mentors, and if they told me something was beyond my experience level and to not do it or practice serious caution, I would take that under serious advisement. I also know I could go to them for help if I did feel like something was getting out of hand. But overall, I think that with setting appropriate boundaries, as you mentioned,, we can head off most if not virtually all of any potential issues. It very much is about personal empowerment when it comes to dealing with spiritual stuff. I absolutely agree that teachers should explain how to protect, if they think that's going to be necessary. I also really appreciated the suggestions for "acknowledging" deity. I really resonated with the suggestion to put a picture on your altar of a deity that's "tapping you on the shoulder." I have one deity that I honor, but don't do much deity work or ritual or stuff like that. But I have felt the gentle "tapping" from a few other deities. But working with deity just really isn't my thing. When you talked about acknowledging deity, I really resonated with that. That felt like a way for me to "work" with the few other deities in a way that works for me. Thanks! 😊💖
Finally! The voice of reason speaks sense. Can we just take a second to share this absolutely bloody everywhere? Kelly-Ann you’ve done it again. Nobody has the rite to tell anyone that something is, or isn’t, appropriate or safe for that person. If they do seriously have concerns then at least provide the tools to enable a witch to look after themselves. Not finished the video yet but just had to comment. X
Your thoughts are much appreciated 🙏 your beautiful and elegance is so powerful like your goddesses you work with. BTW I love your guidance oracle! cards! I have them too! Keep up the work.
Thank you very much for sharing your perspective here, you talk of relationships and spirituality in a very mature way and I appreciate that you want to empower not disempower. Also, thank you for sharing that you practice nonmonogamous structures, I've been the same for 5 years and it's inspiring to see others out and being themselves in that way.
Definitely have encountered that kind of talk on social media a LOT. When I see that it sets off my gatekeeper radar. To me it says that person may be an interesting person with a lot of helpful insight AND they may also be someone with a lot of toxic traits as an individual. Entwining myself with them could be more harmful to me than the thing they are warning against. So I proceed with caution and disengage when if or when it becomes too restrictive.
I feel like the only people who are in danger working with deity or any strong spirit are those who wish to force them to do their bidding. I've come across people who have asked the community for advice on how to capture, enslave, or siphon energy away from these beings. I think that such selfishness and arrogance might cause them to hurt themselves or anger the wrong thing.
Even from a strictly psychological standpoint, approaching something from that perspective is incredibly toxic and is not going to bring anything good your way. People can tell quite often when people are massively selfish, so even if they don't "anger a spirit", they're probably eventually going to piss off the wrong actual human being with their bullshit and end up getting hurt. Even if karma isn't real, actions often have consequences, something I wish more people thought about y'know!
For those of us who work with Deities within an archetypal paradigm (rather than believing in an actual invisible being), I guess this kind of fear is deeply related to Shadow Work?
I think this is VERY astute. It could well be connected that way and I would consider that if I felt fear of a being, and I have in the past. I approached it from a shadow work perspective.
Yesssss my thoughts exactly, if you feel this fear for real. People who try to push this fear on others are likely working from their own shadows and their desire for power, control and other uncool stuff over other people. It makes me cross and Kelly-Ann said it was more politely than I would!
i needed it!!!! thank you so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so sooooooooo much!!!!!! Ah i don't know i feel like im lucky cuz im starting my path to work with deity and i already find you im so grateful kelly🖤🖤 cuz i feel you answered to all my questions and happy samhain 🖤🍂
I think that some of the members in the witchy comunity forget that one can worship deity, without necessarily working with deity. I haven't performed that many spells (3 at most), but I do give offerings to my deities and I do have an altar. So you could say my practice is mostly devotional. And what I do is... When I begin working with a new deity, i am very specific when I invite them into my life. And by that I mean I will say outloud, that only X deity, and their energy, is invited into my life, into my home. I don't cast circles, and I don't do invocations in the classic sense. Plus, it's also about one's personal beliefs. If someone believes "oh, i'm not ready, a demon will come for me" they are kinda setting themselves up for failure. On the other hand my belief is that... I worship pretty strong deities, who are renowed for their power - and my logic is... They would not stand to be impersonated. And I believe that goes for any deity, to be honest. Even if it would happen, that sort of charade wouldn't last. And I think that my energy, and this specific belief, can act as a sort of protection/shield. Magic, and spirit, manifest themselves in accordance to one's energy, and are filtered through one's perspective. If your perspective is that you invited a specific deity into your space, and you trust they are strong enough to ward off impersonators, then things will most probably go well - precisely because that is the energy you send off to the universe. Again, this is just my personal belief, so please don't take it to the heart. But if it helps anyone... Then feel free to use this sort of mindset.
This is a very good point. There are many beings in my practice whom I recognise and honour but I am not working with them necessarily. There is no ongoing back and forth communication. This is defo something that peeps forget to see as a possibility. ❤
I teared up at the powerful protection quotes and examples you gave at the end. This is exactly how it should feel, from my experience too. Thank you wholeheartedly ❤
I was talking to my housemate about this the other night. Me being non monogamous with my diety and with humans came about around the same time as each other, and exploring dynamics similarly I definitely see myself as a poly/non mono chaote. I've always worked with multiple energies and I'm the same in my relationships. I have my primary partner and my primary diety, and I'm open to exploring more.
The trio is a system that I use as well 😄 I’m almost finished with ur book and just love it, gf! I love seeing such a smart, young, and vibrant woman branching out the way u did and u nailed it!
Oooof Kelly Ann, I’ve been watching you for years now, since you first started. Tbh I fell off from watching you but you were a big part of my personal exploration with spirituality. I haven’t watched you in a long while like I used to and I gotta tell ya, this video reminded me exactly of the reasons why I was drawn to you all those years back. I appreciate this being out there for anyone who needs to hear it.
I consider deities and spirits as abstractions, or meanings, no matter how they manifest. These meanings could become ideals that a person's soul begins to revolve around. I think if a deity is not leading you to your own meaning, it could be dangerous. I've used this example before, but I think it's a good one: in the beginning of the movie Inception, DiCaprio's character says that an idea can be the most infectious thing for a person. I'm not saying that people shouldn't explore things, on the contrary. I think that people should keep their mind open for other meanings and greater goods to change their minds, kind of like how science or philosophy changes as new understanding comes along. And when a person finds their personal meaning within a greater good, the alignment is like strength and clarity.
I spent a few years in my childhood with Ray Buckland..his first wife, Rosemary..and his sons, Robert and Renny. Rosemary was very close to my Irish Catholic grandmother. She planted her herbs in our garden…Raymond did my makeup for my dance recitals…he would hold up cards for me to tell what I saw on them..by the backs. Halloween was something else on our block for the trick or treaters. When they..after a few years..bought their first house in Brentwood, on Long Island in N.Y. We helped move them. I was given the very special task of holding a box with chalices, jars…and Rosemarys Athame…which she usually wore on a special belt. They visited us often..for a period of time in a long white hearse…and we visited them. Lovely, warm, generous people. Just wanted to share as you mentioned his name..thank you! 🥳
What a beautiful set of memories. I was right there with you while you described it.. ❤ Thanks for sharing x
Oh, super cool! You are so lucky! 🍀 I adore Uncle Buck. So wish I could have known him...
Our witchy community has waited for these exact words to be said for a very, very long time. After having seen various content makers literally forbidding their audience from, for example, including any practice from the left hand path because it is immoral and evil, while others are advising people never, ever to read Scott Cunningham's books because he was so very much against using any herbs for banishing that his excessively benevolent influence would be harmful, we really need some sanity, sincerity and tolerance about this. Not to mention those who claim that unless one had a two hour long midnight spectacle, with 3 bats, 5 ravens, 7 wolves, a purple dragon, a shower of black roses and a ghostly apparition of the Goddess herself, then no, one is NOT called by the Morrigan and is not deemed worthy of becoming a member of that particular exclusive club. There is even a YT video of someone who tells other practitioners that, unless they were explicitly invited by the Morrigan herself, they must not attempt to invoke her or work with her because she will PUNISH them... There are all kinds of discouraging and negative claims, demands and even threats out there, disguised as teachings and wisdom, most of which seem to be simply people compensating their inner deficits and low self esteem by posing and pretending to be the chosen ones of their favourite deities. As I said, we really needed this video. Thank you.
@RitualofGhosts That is definitely a thing, yes. Living in a traditional society where everyone immediately equates paganism and witchcraft with satanism, ritual torture, human sacrifice, baby eating and such medieval horror fantasies does make practitioners want to disassociate from those who invoke such persistent prejudice in and rejection from others. It's like being tainted by association with them that frightens many right hand path pagans, who crave to be accepted, respected or at least just left in peace to practice their own spirituality. And most of us are annoyed at this persistent misconceptions of paganism, and would like to share the genuine beauty of a nature based spirituality with others and be seen as we really are, not as the Spanish Inquisition used to see us as. 🙄 But I also think that for many of us, it is not only what others think but also what most of us were raised and conditioned to believe. Even when growing up in a secular society, Satan as a symbol of evil, temptation, cruelty, inhumanity, destruction, death and damnation is present everywhere, we constantly imbibe it in countless ways without even being aware of it, so exploring anything that may be associated with him will stirr all the subconscious fears that we carry within ourselves. I think it is both an issue of confronting all the moral and ethic values of the society we live in, as well as analyzing our own concepts of good and evil.
@RitualofGhosts And in many very traditional and religious segments of the society all around the world, those who do not share that dogma do have to keep quiet about what they believe in and hide their practice, for fear of genuine persecution and being harmed. I have Damien Echols's book "High Magick" on my table right now and his life story perfectly symbolizes exactly just how deep and how dangerous fanatical religious prejudice can be. So in a sense, excluding all left hand path practices is a self preservation instinct in those of us who have trouble accepting the fact that these stupidifying, dogmatic, intolerant misconceptions will stay around for a long, long time... 🤮
Oh yes, you are right
If you ask a Hindu if there's only 1 God the Hindu would say yes. If you ask the Hindu if there are many gods the Hindu would say yes. If you ask the Hindu if he/she is God the Hindu will say yes. I have been asked by my students if the deity is real or just their imagination and I say yes. We use imagination to connect and interact with deities. IMO Deities are aspects of ourselves and I believe if toxic spirits show up that it is from a shadow aspect of myself. Thank you for sharing. 😘 💜
I really like this explanation
@Dhesyca Thank you! 😘💗
@hagstone Thank you! 😘💗
Oh wow I didnt know that about Hindu. That's pretty muchcrxsctly how I see deity
I've had teachers tell me "not to" & none of them were right. Years later when you look back you realise many of their behaviours were covertly abusive & were solely centered around power, control & heirarchy.
My theory is that if someone has reached that gate that they're asking about or exploring, then they're ready; they're there for a reason.
"Don't go that way! Never go that way!!"
"If she'd have gone that way, it would have led straight to their castle!"
Hehe I read that quote in the voice from the movie 🥰
I've joined a few witchcraft communities on discord and this kind of gatekeeping and fear mongering is everywhere!! I don't understand why that is, maybe people like to just pass themselves off as an authority in any kind of social situation, but i'm so glad you made this video
I'm hearing that there is TONNES of this rhetoric in certain Discord communities. I do not understand the motivation to elevate your own ability and power whilst convincing others that they cannot possibly have any themselves. Frankly, fuck that shit.
Yes I experience this in discord and on Facebook and frankly I questioned myself and wanted to stop practising. I felt I should be reading and not doing.
But no….I will learn AND practice. I’m not allowing people to tell me I’m not able to do these things. The gate keeping is real and very prevalent
Yeah, your not a REAL witch kind of talk...🎑
Thank you for this. So empowering. I've definitely felt like some resources (both online and offline) were taking away my power, and it boggles me that I simply allowed it to happen. I allowed those who TOOK the authority position to take away my power, my sovereignty. So, thank you for this video. It helped me step back into power, sovereignty et cetera. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us.
I remember when studying Satanism and Luciferianism that demons cannot go against your free will. You decide where to go, who to work with, and how. They may test you a bit to see if they even want to work with you, but it resonated with me about the free will part. "No, no, and double no." Like you were saying at the end of this regarding music lyrics and movie lines and pictures of guard dogs. We have the power to do what is needed. Whatever resonates with you to lessen your fear, to get your power back. I totally agree. When I'm feeling down, I put on some Led Zeppelin and suddenly I'm in the 'zone' again. Mind shifting is so damn important when stepping into the roads less traveled. And I love how you said that if people simply do not feel comfortable working with deity, then they should put it aside. Absolutely. We set our boundaries. We can say 'no.'
the dune "fear is the mindkiller" passage often comes to me.
in general, what puts this in perspective for me is the fact that I feel like I get - and obey - messages from the universe all the time. the universe! and I think many people have that experience and are used to that sort of noticing and discernment.
YESSS! Someone else mentioned the Dune 'fear is the mindkiller' passage too - it is soooo epic! It reminds me of the energy that my patron god Tyr holds for me. x
I’m a very introspective person but I don’t have the gift of the gab, as they say. I really admire your ability to talk into the camera and talk about these topics. I once was joking with my partner saying I was going to make a TH-cam channel called Witchcraft 102 and any topic will just be me saying “does that feel right to you? No? Don’t do it.” Or “Do you feel that those associations mean something to you? Yes? Great, do it!” It would be so incredibly boring, but it’s so necessary. I’m glad you can put those thoughts into a much more verbose and interesting way. 😆
“Does it make sense to any other witch? I don’t know I don’t give a fuck” yesss! Lol this is why I love your channel and vibe! Love this whole video! I have been told that I need strong protection before working with deities and I didn’t listen because it didn’t vibe with me. One goddess came to me in a dream that I felt drawn to same with the other 2 and I knew deep down that it was right. If it wasn’t my ancestors would let me know or take care of business. I’ve also been told “you can’t have 3 deities, you have one matron and one patron. I truly wrote that the fuck off, because that is what vibes with them not me. I think people put their opinions on people too much, it’s one thing to give advice in your experience but to push on to another your truth and views isn’t right. I find myself loudly going out the back door on anyone fear pushing. That has never been my tea.
🥰🥰🥰
I was on a witchy discord server for a little while and heard all this prescriptivism. I realized I had been taking advice from 14 year olds on the internet and promptly stopped hanging out in witchy internet spaces (except for this one). Even in tarot, you get so many readers on TH-cam who bring their shadows and baggage to the advice, and it really ends up spiritually shaming us more than helping.
It puts a very fine point on needing to see these shadows in ourselves, in putting effort into listening to our own internal voices and letting our intuition guide us before seeking advice, because really it does a better job than anyone else can. That will look different for everyone. There is no one right path.
My "incantation" against fear comes from Dune, The Litany Against Fear. I don't always remember all the words, but it comes to mind in some form or another when I'm afraid. 😊
"I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past, I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain."
YES. I know that one my heart ❤ Epic. The film remake is coming out tomorrow in the UK!
@@kelly-annmaddox In the USA too!! I can't wait to watch it!! 💖💖💖😊😊😊
I used to chant that to time my Covid handwashing. 😆
"I don't believe that working with Diety will fuck up my life" THANK YOU! I am sitting at this same table. I dont subscribe to the thought that this is a dangerous or wrong thing to do. In my experience it is rather intuitive and I feel like people who give this advice are bringing it in as a fear, they are fearful so they maybe think everyone needs to be fearful. We can be controlled by fear and people in the craft that gatekeep with fear have their own issues that we aren't discussing here right now.
I always think it’s weird and maybe even misinformed when people say that working with deity is dangerous 🤷♀️I can’t wait to hear your thoughts 💗
Its so intresting. I work with deity and i had a experiance that got out of hand, something lower had joined in ,so i stood up and said "im the powerful witch here , get the fuck out of my house !" Worked a charm . No fancy words no extras .you can banish anything if you truely believe in your power.
Divine timing darling. Just the other day I found myself in a scary situation with the real possibility of physical harm, and as I sat there frozen in fear the only thing I could think to do was focus on the totem animal that I first worked with as a tiny witchling. My Tiger! I slowed my breathing and called her up in my mind and boom, she was right there. Standing in front of me, hackles raised, growling menacingly at the threat. It created the feeling of protection for me, and reminded me that I am a fierce fucking tigress and also that I do have tools at my disposal to protect myself. It worked. Period. Thank you for speaking on this topic, and thank you for holdng space and offering info for those of us who do really need protection from harm. (Side note: LOVE the loook today gorgeous!)
Thank you, Kelly-Ann!! I appreciate the mention and for plugging all my links!!
It has been so cool to see our discord conversations come to life over here on TH-cam. Anyone who isn't already in the Patreon Discord server really ought to consider joining in. You get the amazing opportunity to explore these topics in real time with Kelly-Ann and others like me. It is totally worth the coin.
To anyone interested I have started some notes on a video fleshing out my ideas that Kelly-Ann quoted in this video. I’ve gotten a new camera and editing software so this video will be a bit higher quality than what you may see already on my channel.
In this new video I want to discuss the divide I've noticed in witchcraft spaces around whether the craft is dangerous or not. I’ll talk about the real dangers I think we should protect ourselves from and how to discern for yourself if a particular fear is useful or not. There are genuine reasons why someone might want to be afraid of certain aspects of the craft. Keep an eye out for this video over the next month or so on my channel. Link in Kelly-Ann’s description.
I think that fear of deities (or deity) is interconnected with our present situation. Too many deaths around us, financial uncertainty etc. it all creates existential fears that we than transfer to our faith. We start believing that we did something wrong in our connection to deity or that is something wrong with deity in the first place. it's in fact very old fear that plagued humanity from the beginning of consciousness.
I come from a place that everything comes from my own conciousness/gnosis. Comprised of ontology and eptimology. Especially as a chaote. It's attuned completely to my perceptions, belief and reality.
I agree with much of what you've said. I'm a pretty hard polytheist, and I've never felt that approaching a deity was a dangerous thing to do. Maybe the relationship will work out, maybe it won't, but that's the worst that will really happen. And as for things masquerading as deity, well, if something doesn't feel right, don't engage with it. It seems like people like to over complicate things. There's a certain amount of this in the heathen community too - a subset of people who like to proclaim everyone else is doing it wrong, and they also tell folks that you should only focus on your ancestors at home and that deities don't care about the individual and should only be approached in a community setting etc etc- that of course makes it awfully difficult for those of us who are solitary, nor does it jive with my own experiences or the experiences of plenty of other people. And there's some funny ideas about magic as well. I understand someone not being comfortable using magic or using runes for divination, because they don't know how it was done back in the day. But I don't understand why that should be a limiting factor for anyone else (I see magical and divinitory practices as tools - if it works, why not use it?). At the end of the day, it's just a lot of gatekeeping. I've gotten pretty good at tuning all those people out - their opinions on how things should be done have zero to do with me.
I love that you made this video. You've always been so grounded and empowering and permissive and a wise perspective. The fear-mongring and gatekeeping is largely coming from tiktok... It's just.. a bunch of insecure people trying to tell others what to do so they can feel powerful and authoritative. It's really really frustrating and ridiculous.
Thanks so much for your kind words, darling. I totally agree about so much of this rhetoric just being a bloody power grab! 🙄 It's lovely to see your name and face In my comments. Hope you are well x
This video is totally beautiful. I'm feeling so inspired right now. Thank you so much 🥰
I'm always floored by the wisdom you bring to these types of topics & conversations. Your thoughts ring so true to me, love it, love it, love it. You are my damn hero, Kelly-Ann.
lmao what you said around 17:50 and deities masquerading as other deities reminds me of a friend who works with freya; and i enjoy suggesting to them that they're actually being catfished by loki
Our minds are extremely powerful things that's why gods/ demons are so powerful in the minds of those who believe in them.
Sure, but just because you believe something is powerful doesn't mean you can be convinced to believe it is inherently dangerous. The two things are not synonymous in my mind. 🙂 Also, power is subjective. As I said in the video, I don't see deities as any more powerful than humans. And I associate with humans all the time.
Someone also has to consider the type of relationship with deity, long term or transactional. Daily offerings and long term devotion are very different than calling for a favor once and forgetting them.
THE TRIO OF DRINKS 🙌
It had to happen.
As I live in U.S., I think Hollywood puts out so many horror movies that make people fear w/ the mindset u were discussing. Everything from that old movie, The Exorcist, to newer ones, where young ladies r playing the ouija, & all of their candles go out suddenly etc, etc.
My opinion you're the best teacher I've learned so much from your videos and just the sound of your voice is so calming
I recall a video by MirthandReverence where she said, basically, that she doesn't build her circle with the intent to keep things out. That building a circle out of fear of negative energies my take on it is that building a practice from fear of those energies is like putting a target on yourself/whatever your doing and inviting them to come fuck with you. Kind of like putting a big, obvious security system up. It might discourage some, it alsi lets them know that there is something there that might be worth the challenge. Lock the doors, but don't put up a sign that flashes "tasty treat" or something.
After some bad experiences in the Pagan community, I'm so grateful for content creators like you and Three Pagans and a Cat who say that we are allowed to set boundaries with deities. I don't want to go back to the religious trauma I suffered in Christianity where their god "forced" me to do things I didn't want to do.
Love your talks!! 💞💙💚🦆
I remember a while ago when you talked about working with popular figures in media. Well, I've been using a Hermione Harry Potter wand (one of their products) to cast my circles and it feels so powerful and protective to me, more than any wand I've used before. ☺️🧡
This is amazing! I have been a witch for 30 something years. I have tried to stay clear of the formulatic/dogmatic sects. They remind me of the religion I grew up in. Thall shall not because that's only for the knowledge keepers, and they have been studying it all their lives. That type of closed system reminds me of people who don't want to share their power, if their is only one place to go. I believe that knowledge should be in the hands of those who want it. That we make the magic, so if something doesn't work for you, but works for others doesn't mean that you are bad at it, it just means it doesn't work for you. I don't believe that deamons are out and about masquerading as deities - What I do believe --my personal belief-- is that sometimes we are drowning and don't have confidence in our own power that we want to believe that others are messing with us. Can it happen, sure, I don't believe that it happens all the time, I believe that it's rare. I believe that their are non-human enterties but they do not have the human experience, they may not do things according to human values, understanding, or any other things humans see. I think the best protection is the be confident in yourself, to have a tailsman that you can grasp, and to live your best life. I went to a Samhain circle once and felt like I was in the Church of my youth and it left a bad taste in my mouth, but do realize that to others this might be a comfort.
It's amazing how lyrics and movie lines can be so powerful. For me it was always a take that lyric that made me feel strong. "In the darkness you must enter the code. Crack the combination all on your own"
Oooh that is a fierce lyric, and VERY relevant to what we're talking about here. 👏
Spot on. The moment someone insinuates there is some special circle that they belong to that is only available to them because of their specialness. My bullshit detectors start screaming. I make my own party thank you. And as you said : I am fully capable of decrement and protecting myself. I also agree that what Ryan said is interesting and wonder too if it’s a hold over from the dogmatism of certain religions where only the priestly caste has access to the divine - maybe it’s unconscious or maybe some folks need to use that model to manipulate. Either way - I can meditate my own relationships thanks. Great video
Trio of drinks, same. I'm here for it.
wow great response to these sort of claims. for me I would be afraid not to work with a deity if they contacted me because I would be afraid that I was abandoning part of myself if I chose to ignore them.
Kelly, without writing an essay. Thank you. You're a talisman of protection to us. x
Saw this posted last night and I'm glad I waited to listen and internalize this morning. These words of Power are intrinsic to every day life as well as magical practice. In my case my Power song is I'll Attack by 30 seconds to Mars. Power of Love is definitely a vibe.
All I can say about this video is ... I really needed to hear this! Thank you so much!
Divine timing never disappoints. ❤
i love how you described your relationship with deity, deification and deityhood. and how you got into how your handlings of your human relationships converts to your relationships with deity.
When I need to be empowered or need a shift inside, I listen to music that can ignite that shift and flame up the strength or inspiration that I need in the moment. And when I need to purify myself, I sing in the shower or I take shower, four times a day if needed. Or I light a candle, esp. when I'm angry - it cools me down, centers me. Sage doesn't do thing for me in protection, I'd rather use mint (mostly as a tea), possibly basil (in cooking). But the music and singing is the quickest solution to protect myself, also it calms me, relieves bottled emotions. I like the chant "Kali Durga" as well, but it transcenses me too much sometimes, and I can't handle that state so I don't use it mostly.
Also I find it interesting about the dog picture. For years, I had four pictures hanging above my bed. I didn't feel safe and I was very anxious. I moved in a flat with a friend, had a new room for myself, was really happy about that. And brought the pictures with me. After like two weeks, it came to such an extreme paranoic state of mind again and I decided that two of those pictures might actually be not good to hang over my bed anymore. They reminded me of time in which I wasn't feeling well, I thought that they are empowering me (possibly by reminding me of the journey that I took from those moment of being emotionally fucked up) but now I don't think that anymore. I put them away so I don't see them. I felt so much better that night and the nights further the line. I don't know why it didn't occure to me before. I really don't need to display everything everytime.
This is absolutely fantastic! You are a real force of nature you amazing woman 🔥
😊😊😊
Your protection measures really resonate with me! Especially the Franky goes to Hollywood thing 💓 I was always wondering if anyone else resonates with this song in this way 💓 love it!
Alohas!
Solo practitioner in NY, not the city, the burbs,
and I have yet to meet many Practitioners who weren't still puberty-minded with Power issues;
Your channel is so refreshingly mature in its view,
You are Steeped in the Tea!
^________^!
Thank you again, surrogate older Craft sister, for the delicious reason-ability with which you Trull the Mystery!
(Personally, mantra chanting for ten years straight, I'll probably whisper the mantra "Thank You Source" last, hopefully later on)
I am so happy to be your surrogate older craft sister! Thanks for watching and say hello to NY for me. I can't wait to go back there ❤🗽
You're looking so gorgeous ♡_♡
I love your words. Personally, I believe that wrong, and fear, are mere errors of mind.
I love These famous words by Rumi say "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I'll meet you there".
So I will meet you there my beautiful friend (;
I have been having dreams every night about Santa Mureta and think of her every day and I was told by tarot reader today that works with Santa Mureta when I tried to get some information that I wasn't ready to work with santa mureta I felt so humliated being told that.
I’ve been doing a lot of self-discovery when it comes to deity work and spirits of all kinds. Hearing you talk about transferring the way you connect with humans over to the spirit world clicked for me.
And oh my fucking word! Your advice on protection rocked. The way you described feeing protected after doing your work is exactly what I want, but have never felt. Though I can say when I blast some TOOL I feel like I can do anything and can’t be touched so I’m gonna start there. Thank you 😊💗
TOOL will sew a sacred space right up. ❤🪄🔥💥 YES. Haha when I listen to TOOL in the street as I'm walking, I feel like I have fucking shapeshifted. 😅
@@kelly-annmaddox seriously! I’ve always said that listening to Tool is way more of a spiritual experience for me. 🤣
I’m currently listening and following along to Rebel Witch and it’s so so good. It’s the witchy book I wish I had back when I was anointing myself with juniper oil and calling out for the goddess on my front porch the summer before 10th grade 😂
@@kelly-annmaddox carving my own path is what I’ve always wanted and I’m finally giving myself permission to do that
I think this is one of my favorite videos that you've done recently!
*watches intently, then at **24:01** a giggly electronic sound emits* Not gonna lie that sound almost made me jump 3 feet in the air😂 *resumes watching as if the sound never happened*
😅 Welcome to the English seaside
There was some creepy giggling lol i heard it too
Yeah, that was crazy. I scrolled looking for this,...'uh anyone else gunna mention this?' haha. Glad it was on the video and not in my room and seems to have just been someone splashing in the sea then.
This was really great, thanks Kelly-Ann x
It took yrs for me to fully embrace my deity. They kept popping up throughout my teens and early 20s but I was cautious. It wasnt fear so much as I wanted to be respectful. I take any commitment of relationship to be serious and mutually beneficial. I feel a lot of fear in deity connection is a hang over from peoples trauma from the mainstream religions. Personally I feel too many people jump into guiding and teaching others too quickly. Too often people are giving away their personal power to both other practitioners and beings.
My go to song for feeling protected and in my power is Donna Summer's "I feel love" 😆 It just really works for me.
Another FANTASTIC video Kelly-Ann. Thank you for starting this conversation. I am a priestess of The Morrigan and I can attest to years of other people’s fears getting in the way of my connection with Her. I wholeheartedly agree with your point about caveats. I feel like no matter how long someone has been doing something in the craft there should always be consideration for the fact that we are speaking from our own perspective and that is not gospel.
Also - the fear that a god(des) could actually be a demon is VERY Catholic in nature. Or, at least the type of Catholicism I was raised with. No shade to the Catholics, but that type of fear has no place in my spiritual practice.
This video is gold dust
😍🌟 Thank you!
@@kelly-annmaddox you’re welcome
Thank you for your take on this topic Kelly-Ann; also may I say without seeming superficial that you look stunning! Your wording and presence are beautiful per the usual. XX
Idk how you do it, but you always have a way of making the exact video I didn’t know that I needed. I especially LOVED and needed to hear your discussion of protection practices.
I’ve also been thinking about it today and in all my years of Catholic indoctrination I was never ONCE warned that a demon might try to intercede when praying to “God”. Why would it be any different for other deities?
I still adore you thank you ever so much
I’m at 15:15 in the video and had to pause to write this comment.
There is definitely something going on in the collective unconscious for this issue to arise. I actually wrote in my journal last night about my views on deity in regards to pantheism and, word for word, wrote;
“I feel deities and spiritual beings are concepts and Egregores. They are culminations of energy and intent formed through interactions with human thoughts and psyches. They allow us to conceptualise divinity in a way our minds can comprehend”.
If that’s not a sign of tapping in to something, then I don’t know what is! Thank you for sharing your thoughts again
I love this video Kelly-Ann
This is a really interesting topic.
I’ve certainly had some experiences with energies I would say weren’t pleasant and would say were negative. They were very scary experiences at the time. Not Deity, but made me very afraid of Deity and the spirit world.
Looking back, I wonder how much of that was being fed by the environment I was in or where I was mentally at the time. I have experienced energies since that have been heavy and too overwhelming for me, and probably would have been frightening for some ppl. But I love what you’re saying about reflecting on your own gnosis.
Personally, I do have a certain tentative approach with working with any other entity - human or on the spiritual. But when a Deity is ,what I call persistent, I tend to try to have some “dialogue”. There is a reason they have showed up at that time.
Do you have a similar video talking about working with “lesser “ spirits(ie ancestors, familiars, spirits of places, fae, etc)? I’d be interested in your perspectives on those sorts of relationships with spirits.
I see you’ve uploaded and I’m like YES get the kettle on. See that it’s about deity YEEEES.
I hate people trying to put their hard and fast rules on me. I’m faaairrly new to the craft. I also feel once people know that, they can try and tell me it’s too soon. That I’m getting ahead of myself. I experience so much of it in certain communities. It’s deflating and I’ve allowed it to make me upset.
I respect deity and the power, but I feel no fear.
Your words and thoughts give me power. Not even because of what you believe necessarily, but because you are giving us the permission to create our own path!
I would love to sit in a cosy pub and just chat with you and some other witches!! What a day that would be.
Thank you, I’ve watched so many of your videos you feel like a friend to me. ( fan girl or what haha!)
I LOVE the length of your videos and I love how I can go for a long walk and hear about this interesting topic until I'm back home again. Big hugs from Sweden 🇸🇪🌷
🥰 Thanks. I sometimes get people asking me to make my vids shorter but I'm long-form vid crew for life. 🤷🏻♀️🪄❤😊
Thank you darling!! Needed to hear this.
Love you lady🖤💚❤
Thank you 🙏🏼❤️ I’ve been thinking about working with deity but I was so scared. I feel so empowered now 🥰
great discussion. The magick worker's perspective is important to the experiential outcome and the law of attraction may be an influence based on the practitioner's focus and goals. Risk is relative.
Wow, this is powerful.
It seems to me that any spirit "dressing up" as a Divine Being can only do so if they have knowledge of the Divine Being. With such knowledge I can't really see why a spirit would risk the wrath of the "original".
It’s amazing how much I’ve heard lately about deity being dangerous especially on TikTok. Thank you so much for talking on this and giving your insights! It was so refreshing and empowering!
It absolutely does not surprise me to learn that the two hotbeds for this nonsense gate-keeping are TikTok and Discord. The kids need some guidance I think.
I'm not on TikTok, but I don't think I've ever heard any advice someone got there that I was like "yeah, that's good!" It seems really fear-based and extreme. If your spiritual practice can be described as "fear-based and extreme", you're probably doing something wrong.
I just had a discussion about this where indeed someone claimed that deity work was dangerous, amazingly time consuming and expensive (why??). Since I, too, view magic as something that is part of life, and deity as part of that (the way you described them is the first time I heard it put into words), I kind of went in hard againt it (respectfully, of course). Because I do think that witchcraft is empowering and I would never want to scare new or uncertain witches away from things that could be empowering.
That said, I did not think that for some it could add to the sacredness and the excitement of working with deity. That was not a point that I had considered, so thank you, for showing a different side as well, and keeping the discussion open. Lovely video.
This is so interesting. I think it is good to go in hard against that kind of opinion if the person espousing it is doing so in teaching capacity. Like, if it is just a PERSONAL experience that they are sharing, that's fine. (Although it sounds a bit saddening, that connecting with deity should cost them any money.) It could be a potent way for them to practice. But if someone tries to tell me or others that 'dangerous, time-consuming and expensive' are the stipulations for deity work then... yeah, I am going to rile against that forever because it's BS. 🤣
Thanks for watching and I'm glad that we share a view on the nature of deity. Very cool x
@@kelly-annmaddox That was indeed my thought as well. It was made as a sort of bulletpoint list warning people to think on this before they started working with deity. But honestly, it just came across as fearmongering and that raises my hackles as nothing else. "Remember, working with deity is a life-long commentment!" Oh, no it is not!
THANK YOU SO MUCH for this video! I've been scared off of working with deity from everything that's been said in the community, and I've been a witch for over 20 years! I think a lot of people can benefit from a more measured and capable perspective.
Edited to add: I'm going to watch the last 5 minutes of this whenever I want to feel like a badace! 😁
I love that you mentioned how connecting with humans is a transferable skill because after I started working with Hecate I realised she was actually teaching me how to have a healthy relationship with humans. It was so helpful for me and has improved my relationships with humans massively.
On the point of fearmongering, unfortunately I think some of it is on purpose as a way for certain people to protect their own view of themselves as an "expert" in the Craft. I see it so often as a way for someone insecure to elevate themselves and put themselves in a position of power.
OMG, suddenly realising why The Power of Love is such an epic song!
Team Ribeana! I've been living off warm Ribeana while I've been ill!
Thank you for saying this! For me, some things feel right and I'm ready to take that trip or jump off that cliff. For me, some things feel like climbing Mt. Everest, and I need to start by walking around the block, and build up to climbing a mountain. Thank you for being real!
An excellent video and I overall agree with your perspectives. The demon in disguise issue sounds like ex-Christian fear based thinking. After I left Christianity and started exploring Paganism, I came from a place of fear for a long time, because that's what I was used to. I've done a lot of work to leave that behind. I've also learned that nasty sh*t is out there and can affect you, but you can do stuff to deal with it. I don't focus much on that stuff so it generally doesn't affect me. In having experienced some of that, not deity related, I do think that for some stuff a certain level of knowledge and experience can help the process of dealing with it. There are a few people I would consider spiritual mentors, and if they told me something was beyond my experience level and to not do it or practice serious caution, I would take that under serious advisement. I also know I could go to them for help if I did feel like something was getting out of hand. But overall, I think that with setting appropriate boundaries, as you mentioned,, we can head off most if not virtually all of any potential issues. It very much is about personal empowerment when it comes to dealing with spiritual stuff. I absolutely agree that teachers should explain how to protect, if they think that's going to be necessary.
I also really appreciated the suggestions for "acknowledging" deity. I really resonated with the suggestion to put a picture on your altar of a deity that's "tapping you on the shoulder." I have one deity that I honor, but don't do much deity work or ritual or stuff like that. But I have felt the gentle "tapping" from a few other deities. But working with deity just really isn't my thing. When you talked about acknowledging deity, I really resonated with that. That felt like a way for me to "work" with the few other deities in a way that works for me. Thanks! 😊💖
Listening to you is always so grounding. You have such wonderful reminders. :)
Finally! The voice of reason speaks sense.
Can we just take a second to share this absolutely bloody everywhere?
Kelly-Ann you’ve done it again. Nobody has the rite to tell anyone that something is, or isn’t, appropriate or safe for that person. If they do seriously have concerns then at least provide the tools to enable a witch to look after themselves.
Not finished the video yet but just had to comment. X
Your thoughts are much appreciated 🙏 your beautiful and elegance is so powerful like your goddesses you work with.
BTW I love your guidance oracle! cards! I have them too! Keep up the work.
Thank you very much for sharing your perspective here, you talk of relationships and spirituality in a very mature way and I appreciate that you want to empower not disempower. Also, thank you for sharing that you practice nonmonogamous structures, I've been the same for 5 years and it's inspiring to see others out and being themselves in that way.
Definitely have encountered that kind of talk on social media a LOT. When I see that it sets off my gatekeeper radar. To me it says that person may be an interesting person with a lot of helpful insight AND they may also be someone with a lot of toxic traits as an individual. Entwining myself with them could be more harmful to me than the thing they are warning against. So I proceed with caution and disengage when if or when it becomes too restrictive.
This was thought-provoking and lovely, thank you!
Beautiful! Thank you x
I feel like the only people who are in danger working with deity or any strong spirit are those who wish to force them to do their bidding. I've come across people who have asked the community for advice on how to capture, enslave, or siphon energy away from these beings. I think that such selfishness and arrogance might cause them to hurt themselves or anger the wrong thing.
Wow, do people do that? That's awful.
Even from a strictly psychological standpoint, approaching something from that perspective is incredibly toxic and is not going to bring anything good your way. People can tell quite often when people are massively selfish, so even if they don't "anger a spirit", they're probably eventually going to piss off the wrong actual human being with their bullshit and end up getting hurt.
Even if karma isn't real, actions often have consequences, something I wish more people thought about y'know!
For those of us who work with Deities within an archetypal paradigm (rather than believing in an actual invisible being), I guess this kind of fear is deeply related to Shadow Work?
I think this is VERY astute. It could well be connected that way and I would consider that if I felt fear of a being, and I have in the past. I approached it from a shadow work perspective.
Also I ADORE your Louise Brooks profile photo 📸
@@kelly-annmaddox 🥰
Yesssss my thoughts exactly, if you feel this fear for real. People who try to push this fear on others are likely working from their own shadows and their desire for power, control and other uncool stuff over other people. It makes me cross and Kelly-Ann said it was more politely than I would!
Yesssssssss 🎶 The Power of Loooooove 🎶 that song has been giving me chills since the 80s!!!
I love you. That is all.
Zachary is so great!!& Im really glad you made this video!!
i needed it!!!! thank you so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so sooooooooo much!!!!!!
Ah i don't know i feel like im lucky cuz im starting my path to work with deity and i already find you im so grateful kelly🖤🖤
cuz i feel you answered to all my questions
and happy samhain 🖤🍂
Kelly-Ann Maddox is the fucking Supreme🙌 lol Also, those orange glasses are fantastic👌🖤
I think that some of the members in the witchy comunity forget that one can worship deity, without necessarily working with deity. I haven't performed that many spells (3 at most), but I do give offerings to my deities and I do have an altar. So you could say my practice is mostly devotional. And what I do is... When I begin working with a new deity, i am very specific when I invite them into my life. And by that I mean I will say outloud, that only X deity, and their energy, is invited into my life, into my home. I don't cast circles, and I don't do invocations in the classic sense. Plus, it's also about one's personal beliefs. If someone believes "oh, i'm not ready, a demon will come for me" they are kinda setting themselves up for failure. On the other hand my belief is that... I worship pretty strong deities, who are renowed for their power - and my logic is... They would not stand to be impersonated. And I believe that goes for any deity, to be honest. Even if it would happen, that sort of charade wouldn't last. And I think that my energy, and this specific belief, can act as a sort of protection/shield. Magic, and spirit, manifest themselves in accordance to one's energy, and are filtered through one's perspective. If your perspective is that you invited a specific deity into your space, and you trust they are strong enough to ward off impersonators, then things will most probably go well - precisely because that is the energy you send off to the universe. Again, this is just my personal belief, so please don't take it to the heart. But if it helps anyone... Then feel free to use this sort of mindset.
This is a very good point. There are many beings in my practice whom I recognise and honour but I am not working with them necessarily. There is no ongoing back and forth communication. This is defo something that peeps forget to see as a possibility. ❤
I teared up at the powerful protection quotes and examples you gave at the end. This is exactly how it should feel, from my experience too. Thank you wholeheartedly ❤
Omg Loki did this with Fenrir. I thought I was working with Fenrir for a couple of years and then BAM. Hindsight it makes sense but yikes.
“Did this” as in disguised himself. It didn’t surprise me or scare me, was just a profound realization
I was talking to my housemate about this the other night. Me being non monogamous with my diety and with humans came about around the same time as each other, and exploring dynamics similarly I definitely see myself as a poly/non mono chaote. I've always worked with multiple energies and I'm the same in my relationships. I have my primary partner and my primary diety, and I'm open to exploring more.
Yes. Excellent video and perspective. And you look fabulous!
I think you're very brave. #ierys aren't forme at this time and I'm 73 now,
Well said 🙂🖤
The trio is a system that I use as well 😄 I’m almost finished with ur book and just love it, gf! I love seeing such a smart, young, and vibrant woman branching out the way u did and u nailed it!
A classic and killer K-A discussion, love it xx
OMG - the new intro is fire!
Oooof Kelly Ann, I’ve been watching you for years now, since you first started. Tbh I fell off from watching you but you were a big part of my personal exploration with spirituality. I haven’t watched you in a long while like I used to and I gotta tell ya, this video reminded me exactly of the reasons why I was drawn to you all those years back. I appreciate this being out there for anyone who needs to hear it.
I consider deities and spirits as abstractions, or meanings, no matter how they manifest. These meanings could become ideals that a person's soul begins to revolve around. I think if a deity is not leading you to your own meaning, it could be dangerous. I've used this example before, but I think it's a good one: in the beginning of the movie Inception, DiCaprio's character says that an idea can be the most infectious thing for a person.
I'm not saying that people shouldn't explore things, on the contrary. I think that people should keep their mind open for other meanings and greater goods to change their minds, kind of like how science or philosophy changes as new understanding comes along. And when a person finds their personal meaning within a greater good, the alignment is like strength and clarity.