You are perfectly right Joshua, you always see the difference of ISO Limit only in low lights conditions :) On an action camera especially especially there is a lot of lights changes like when it is sitting on mini quads, a fixed shutterspeed is probably not a good idea BUT definitely a good idea if the camera is fixed like on a tripod :) Have a great week
Thank you sir. Your answer is what I was looking for. I messed around with my iso and shutter settings after watching TH-cam videos, then realised the videos didn’t look as good as the original auto settings. I will just reset back to factory and this was good enough for an amateur. Ps: you are a kick ass drone pilot 😁
Appreciate explaining of the theory, testing of the theory and then going over the results, almost like a test engineer (just kidding). You do us a great service providing information and leaving it wide open for us to make an informed decision.
This is a great series!! I fly after work a lot and this time of year it's always cloudy and gray. I use iso limit 1600, and I'm pretty happy with the results.
also, remember, the best minimum shutter speed is 2x the frame rate, so if you're running at 60fps, then you don't really want to go less than 1/120th for the shutter speed. I take a number of low light photographs and videos (think concert where flash is not allowed) and I usually use a max iso limit of 1600 and no lower shutter speed of 1/120 and a 2.5 aperture. Also, as long as it's not completely under/over-exposed you can fix a lot in post.
JB, I don't know if that's going to be any relevant, but... When you make astronomical pictures you usually need a fixed ISO. And to give you 2 extreme examples: when you want to take a picture of the full moon you need 100 ISO. There's too much light, so you need to put it down. Now, when you want to take a picture of the stars, you would set the ISO to 1100 to 1600. Because there's too little light. That not to mention the long exposure, of course.
The shutter speed coloration also changes based on framerate. rule of thumb with video is whatever your frame rate is, double it for your shutter speed. 30fps = 1/60 Shutter Speed (SS). 60fps = 1/120 SS. 24fps = 1/48(or 50) SS. Again that's rule of thumb, BUT typically that is also with more of a fixed lighting situation. With FPV flying in and out of different lighting having it not fixed seems to be a bit more beneficial.
You nailed the ISO - it is chemical versus amplification. At least now we can see the results immediately. But you didn't get the shutter thing. The shutters are a slit that passes across the film, or sensor. Rooted in older tech, to allow for sensor recovery, photography digital cameras mostly still use a physical shutter. This is true for point and shoot / mirrorless. Most of the noise of a DSLR is that mirror. Mirrorless use the speaker to simulate the sound. A physical shutter makes a barely perceptible sound. An electronic one - none at all. So Video Cameras that don't have a physical shutter, use an electronic slit effect of sensor activation. The sensor has a lag time that limits recovery for the next image pass. That sets one of the limits on highest frame rate. Frame Rate - you forgot about that -- is a big factor for low light. Electronic shutters are synced to frame rate, requiring a higher minimum shutter speed, the faster the frame rate. The electronic shutter speed is adjusted automatically to match the ISO and the actual amount of light. Obviously, if you're shooting at 60FPS the camera cannot use 1/50th shutter speed, and you're going to get a lot less light than at 30 or 24. Good to keep in mind to shoot at the slowest frame rate possible to get highest quality in low light. That also means that if you want MOTION BLURRRRR on your helmet cam - just put on a dark filter and you'll get it! All things being equal (not necessarily the case,) it shouldn't matter what resolution you shoot in, as far as low light performance.
I’m doing a POV car review tomorrow with my GoPro Hero 6. I’ll be driving in cloudy weather midday, but I will go into the back of the car to check the interior space to but it will get quite dark there. My settings are 1/240 for shutter, ISO min 100 ISO max 800 white balance auto, sharpness medium at 1080p 60fps. Does sound good?
Hey Joshua i just got a Runcam 3 and updated it right away. I'm noticing during certain bright light scenarios the image flickers. As if the camera is not sure how to expose the image and it flickers very quickly between dark and light. i have WDR on and everything else is just stock.
so Ive heard that if you fix your shutter speed at double your frame rate that it will reduce jello. Ie 30fps and 1/60 shutter. However, if I do that, I run the risk of getting an over or under exposed video at times in the flight. Is there any solution to this? Ive already soft mounted my gopro as much as I can.
Need some advice when I’m riding my motorcycle I have a gopro session 4 which is better 1440p 30 or 1080p 60? And what iso limit 1600 or 400 I ride during the day and only post on instagram thanks
Joshua, how did you adjust video shutter speed on a GoPro session 5? As far as I can tell this is not a feature on the latest capture software (3.3.1) nor the session 5 cam itself. Is there something I am missing here?
Normally what you do is lock the ISO then you can manually set the shutter speed. But I'm reading that shutter speed is broken in firmware version 2.0, and it doesn't show up as an option.
@@imaflymydroneatit i don't know if you're still running the Session5 but if you roll back to firmware 1.5 shutter seed options of 1/30, 1/60 & 1/120 will appear in the app.
Amazing tips! However, you can set the ISO (not the limit, actually locking the ISO) to a fixed value by setting a given shutter speed and then going to ISO settings and pressing the lock on the bottom.
I'm not 100% sure about that. I often see it default to 1080 even when uploaded in 2.7. But maybe it depends on the bandwidth of the user's connection.
Hey mate i have a problem with my action camera, where I film in a sunny day and it is way to bright to see more than 0.5 meter away. I could send a clip as an example 😉
Joshua Bardwell oh ok cheers getting one tomorrow ready for miniairshow over he in uk. just wanted some settings to throw on will got for 2.6 at 30 then 😎 any other advice greatly received looking forward to more of your gopro/adobe editing videos keep up the good work. btw when watching your vids does it help you out more if we watch the adverts rather than skipping them or make no differents?
Hey Josh, two questions: 1) what was that thing in the CLI (I remember you mentioning it in another video) to disable the 'safety' feature of the quad refusing to arm if it is sitting on a certain angle? What command do I use to disable it? (Something: set... 180) 2) would you expect a quad's tune to have higher PIDs if it has a GoPro on it (heavier), compared to lower PIDs on the same quad with no GoPro. Thanks!
thanks and q2?: 2) would you expect a quad's tune to have higher PIDs if it has a GoPro on it (heavier), compared to lower PIDs on the same quad with no GoPro. cheers
A digital camera without a physical shutter is turning the sensor on and off to act as a shutter. That's an over simplification i'm sure, but that's a way to think about it.
Hi joshua, after your first review of runcam 3 i didn't see much talking about it anymore, could you do even a video for us that are still using it? Also some ND filters opinion and testing would be awesome!
Thank you for this video. You use the term "shutter speed" but I believe you are really talking about "frames per second" which can be adjusted in the camera, i.e, 30, 60, 120, 240 fps. I do not believe the "shutter speed" is adjustable. I'm guessing the "shutter speed" is automatically set at twice (2x) the "frames per second" rate because the shutter has to be open 50% and closed 50% of the time. So at 30 fps, the "shutter speed" would be 1/60th of a second. (2 x FPS). HOWEVER, I don't know and that is the question I would like answered. The commenters below say what the "best shutter speed" is but they do not say what it is for the Go Pro. It could be 1/800th of a second because it is an action camera even though it is shooting at 60 or 120 or 240 frames per second. Does anyone know the correct answer to this question of what is the "shutter sped on a GP5? Thank you.
Use an ND filter on your camera. In blhelisuite set timing to auto and PWM frequency to 48 kHz. Move PWM frequency between 24 and 48 kHz to see which one minimizes it.
I would see 4k / FHD comparison, because for me exactly the sharp looks is important in videos too, and these records was catastrophic for me... (That is the reason why i do not used my Runcam 2, right after the first "try", for me its records looked too bad quality (I watched these on a 4k@60 43" monitor )).
Watch the other videos in the playlist for details, and you can also download the raw video too. My conclusion is that the GoPro does not use high enough bitrate, therefore 4k actually looks WORSE for fast-motion video like FPV compared to 2.7k.
Even if you only watch in 1080p resolution, or if you watch in 2.7k resolution on a lower-resolution monitor, the video quality is better if you record and upload in 2.7k. That has been my finding. Watch the other videos in the playlist for details.
"An ultra sharp high frame rate picture can actually not look the best to many people's eyes." I have never understood why some people would think this. I mean the real world around us is 5billionK resolution at 3million frames per second. So it cant be that they are just not accustomed to seeing very high settings images. They look at the real world everyday. But for some reason, when they look at a screen, they decide, "nope, I don't want this to look like the real world, I want this to look like dog shit." Why?
fascinating. So perhaps the streaks in the image gives the brain more information about direction and speed and helps the viewer mentally track the scene. If so, that would mean that 60fps is too fast to generate the streaks, and maybe also too slow to form smooth streaks on the viewers retina. Perhaps if we could hit 500fps, then the streak information would return, but this time in the retina instead of on the screen.
The other thing I would submit is that with infinite resolution of real life, perhaps less motion blur looks better. But on a screen with finite resolution, motion blur might help the pixels seem less obvious.
video really start at 8:30 , your welcome
I guess I have to watch 20 minutes on GoPro settings now...
These are important topics. Thanks for sharing Joshua
You are perfectly right Joshua, you always see the difference of ISO Limit only in low lights conditions :)
On an action camera especially especially there is a lot of lights changes like when it is sitting on mini quads, a fixed shutterspeed is probably not a good idea BUT definitely a good idea if the camera is fixed like on a tripod :)
Have a great week
Thank you sir. Your answer is what I was looking for. I messed around with my iso and shutter settings after watching TH-cam videos, then realised the videos didn’t look as good as the original auto settings. I will just reset back to factory and this was good enough for an amateur. Ps: you are a kick ass drone pilot 😁
Appreciate explaining of the theory, testing of the theory and then going over the results, almost like a test engineer (just kidding). You do us a great service providing information and leaving it wide open for us to make an informed decision.
This is a great series!! I fly after work a lot and this time of year it's always cloudy and gray. I use iso limit 1600, and I'm pretty happy with the results.
also, remember, the best minimum shutter speed is 2x the frame rate, so if you're running at 60fps, then you don't really want to go less than 1/120th for the shutter speed. I take a number of low light photographs and videos (think concert where flash is not allowed) and I usually use a max iso limit of 1600 and no lower shutter speed of 1/120 and a 2.5 aperture. Also, as long as it's not completely under/over-exposed you can fix a lot in post.
JB, I don't know if that's going to be any relevant, but... When you make astronomical pictures you usually need a fixed ISO. And to give you 2 extreme examples: when you want to take a picture of the full moon you need 100 ISO. There's too much light, so you need to put it down. Now, when you want to take a picture of the stars, you would set the ISO to 1100 to 1600. Because there's too little light. That not to mention the long exposure, of course.
The shutter speed coloration also changes based on framerate. rule of thumb with video is whatever your frame rate is, double it for your shutter speed. 30fps = 1/60 Shutter Speed (SS). 60fps = 1/120 SS. 24fps = 1/48(or 50) SS.
Again that's rule of thumb, BUT typically that is also with more of a fixed lighting situation. With FPV flying in and out of different lighting having it not fixed seems to be a bit more beneficial.
Pixel tK I got myself a GoPro session to 58mm filter kit which allows me to shoot 24 1/48 even in broad daylight
You nailed the ISO - it is chemical versus amplification. At least now we can see the results immediately.
But you didn't get the shutter thing. The shutters are a slit that passes across the film, or sensor.
Rooted in older tech, to allow for sensor recovery, photography digital cameras mostly still use a physical shutter. This is true for point and shoot / mirrorless. Most of the noise of a DSLR is that mirror. Mirrorless use the speaker to simulate the sound. A physical shutter makes a barely perceptible sound. An electronic one - none at all.
So Video Cameras that don't have a physical shutter, use an electronic slit effect of sensor activation. The sensor has a lag time that limits recovery for the next image pass. That sets one of the limits on highest frame rate.
Frame Rate - you forgot about that -- is a big factor for low light. Electronic shutters are synced to frame rate, requiring a higher minimum shutter speed, the faster the frame rate. The electronic shutter speed is adjusted automatically to match the ISO and the actual amount of light. Obviously, if you're shooting at 60FPS the camera cannot use 1/50th shutter speed, and you're going to get a lot less light than at 30 or 24. Good to keep in mind to shoot at the slowest frame rate possible to get highest quality in low light.
That also means that if you want MOTION BLURRRRR on your helmet cam - just put on a dark filter and you'll get it!
All things being equal (not necessarily the case,) it shouldn't matter what resolution you shoot in, as far as low light performance.
I’m doing a POV car review tomorrow with my GoPro Hero 6. I’ll be driving in cloudy weather midday, but I will go into the back of the car to check the interior space to but it will get quite dark there. My settings are 1/240 for shutter, ISO min 100 ISO max 800 white balance auto, sharpness medium at 1080p 60fps. Does sound good?
What I gather from this video is to put the shutter speed on auto and ISO on 1600. I'm using a GoPro 5 Black as a dashcam in an overcast environment.
Hey Joshua i just got a Runcam 3 and updated it right away. I'm noticing during certain bright light scenarios the image flickers. As if the camera is not sure how to expose the image and it flickers very quickly between dark and light. i have WDR on and everything else is just stock.
I learned something! Thanks man
Taught me a lot, thanks so much!
I really thought that you where going to show how to access such video parameter settings... May be I'm just to, to green on this,
You are a very good instructor
so Ive heard that if you fix your shutter speed at double your frame rate that it will reduce jello. Ie 30fps and 1/60 shutter. However, if I do that, I run the risk of getting an over or under exposed video at times in the flight. Is there any solution to this? Ive already soft mounted my gopro as much as I can.
Try using an ND filter with auto shutter.
Tried that today, It helped, but blur effect is now gone :/ RIP .. Trying a higher ND filter tomorrow with fixed shutter again.
session 5 is useless now since they have changed the app... no protune settings anymore...
Need some advice when I’m riding my motorcycle I have a gopro session 4 which is better 1440p 30 or 1080p 60? And what iso limit 1600 or 400 I ride during the day and only post on instagram thanks
1440 vs 1080 is entirely up to you.
ISO limit lower will produce more motion blur. The brighter it is outside the lower the ISO limit should be.
Joshua, how did you adjust video shutter speed on a GoPro session 5? As far as I can tell this is not a feature on the latest capture software (3.3.1) nor the session 5 cam itself. Is there something I am missing here?
Normally what you do is lock the ISO then you can manually set the shutter speed. But I'm reading that shutter speed is broken in firmware version 2.0, and it doesn't show up as an option.
ah yes of course, similar to a DSLR. Will try it, thanks
BWFPV yea I don't see a shutter speed option either
BWFPV Hey man, i had same problem on 5 session. To enable shutter speed control in GoPro app (4.1) just hit "reset pro tune settings" couple of times.
@@imaflymydroneatit i don't know if you're still running the Session5 but if you roll back to firmware 1.5 shutter seed options of 1/30, 1/60 & 1/120 will appear in the app.
What about framerate? I tend to shoot 60fps 1080, opposed to 30fps 1440.
How does the gopro session stack up against the new session 5?
Amazing tips! However, you can set the ISO (not the limit, actually locking the ISO) to a fixed value by setting a given shutter speed and then going to ISO settings and pressing the lock on the bottom.
But then you've locked in the exposure, which is terrible for mini quad flying.
Joshua Bardwell Yup! I use this for snowboarding and light is so sketchy! Fix exposure is so tricky
I was reading to set iso at max, because sessions 5 will use what is best. So it won't be at 1200 if you set it there.
Unfortunately you didn't include any test / comparison with a fixed ISO or Shutter Speed. Would have loved to see that also in the video
If you upload video on YT in 2,7 K it will present like 1080 p ? like this one ?
I'm not 100% sure about that. I often see it default to 1080 even when uploaded in 2.7. But maybe it depends on the bandwidth of the user's connection.
Josh, good video. Next video should be about EV-Comp. This setting can dramatically change the picture quality (lightness/darkness) regardless of ISO.
+Nick I have not found EV comp to be useful yet. In every case it ruins the exposure. I would rather do EV compensation in post.
Hey mate i have a problem with my action camera, where I film in a sunny day and it is way to bright to see more than 0.5 meter away. I could send a clip as an example 😉
how does this apply to us that record in 60fps at 1080p?
I will be examining framerate in a different video.
so run with 2.6k at 60 fps with superview and everything else on auto?
+Saggy Nun I don't think the Session at least can do 2.7k 60 Superview. 2.7k 30 Superview is what I'm currently using.
Joshua Bardwell
oh ok cheers getting one tomorrow ready for miniairshow over he in uk. just wanted some settings to throw on will got for 2.6 at 30 then 😎
any other advice greatly received
looking forward to more of your gopro/adobe editing videos
keep up the good work.
btw when watching your vids does it help you out more if we watch the adverts rather than skipping them or make no differents?
Hey Josh, two questions:
1) what was that thing in the CLI (I remember you mentioning it in another video) to disable the 'safety' feature of the quad refusing to arm if it is sitting on a certain angle? What command do I use to disable it? (Something: set... 180)
2) would you expect a quad's tune to have higher PIDs if it has a GoPro on it (heavier), compared to lower PIDs on the same quad with no GoPro.
Thanks!
set small_angle=180
save
thanks and q2?:
2) would you expect a quad's tune to have higher PIDs if it has a GoPro on it (heavier), compared to lower PIDs on the same quad with no GoPro.
cheers
Adding weight will require higher PIDs, all else equal.
A digital camera without a physical shutter is turning the sensor on and off to act as a shutter. That's an over simplification i'm sure, but that's a way to think about it.
If you want daylight motion-blur I guess you'd have to use an ND-filter. I think there's a lot of people doing this with GoPros.
by the way for session 5 best seting the Image stabilizer better than On or Off sir?
+DHEEWZTUBE TV for FPV, off
ok much thanks josh 🙏
Hi joshua, after your first review of runcam 3 i didn't see much talking about it anymore, could you do even a video for us that are still using it? Also some ND filters opinion and testing would be awesome!
RC3 is discontinued and not available any more.
Thank you for this video. You use the term "shutter speed" but I believe you are really talking about "frames per second" which can be adjusted in the camera, i.e, 30, 60, 120, 240 fps. I do not believe the "shutter speed" is adjustable. I'm guessing the "shutter speed" is automatically set at twice (2x) the "frames per second" rate because the shutter has to be open 50% and closed 50% of the time. So at 30 fps, the "shutter speed" would be 1/60th of a second. (2 x FPS). HOWEVER, I don't know and that is the question I would like answered. The commenters below say what the "best shutter speed" is but they do not say what it is for the Go Pro. It could be 1/800th of a second because it is an action camera even though it is shooting at 60 or 120 or 240 frames per second. Does anyone know the correct answer to this question of what is the "shutter sped on a GP5? Thank you.
+David G for a digital camera shutter speed is how long the sensor is allowed to accumulate light before it is read out and reset.
What frame rate were these shot at?
TuhTuhTimmayFPV they said 60 but 24 is the most
hi, how to fix/remove Jello Mid Throttle?
Use an ND filter on your camera.
In blhelisuite set timing to auto and PWM frequency to 48 kHz. Move PWM frequency between 24 and 48 kHz to see which one minimizes it.
@@JoshuaBardwell but my ESC BLHeli not 32-bit? how to?
for morovlogs , 1080p 60fps , shutter 1/120 and iso 400 seems good ? thanks
Personally I wouldn't manually set shutter.
Even though the drone does not go at the same speed it looks like at 400 the blurred area is bigger.
Nice. Finally the video i was waiting for. #notificationsquad
$669 for a session 5......why is that?
I would see 4k / FHD comparison, because for me exactly the sharp looks is important in videos too, and these records was catastrophic for me... (That is the reason why i do not used my Runcam 2, right after the first "try", for me its records looked too bad quality (I watched these on a 4k@60 43" monitor )).
Watch the other videos in the playlist for details, and you can also download the raw video too. My conclusion is that the GoPro does not use high enough bitrate, therefore 4k actually looks WORSE for fast-motion video like FPV compared to 2.7k.
can everyone watch 2.7k or do they need a 4k monitor?
Even if you only watch in 1080p resolution, or if you watch in 2.7k resolution on a lower-resolution monitor, the video quality is better if you record and upload in 2.7k. That has been my finding. Watch the other videos in the playlist for details.
I'll have top go back and watch but didn't you conclude that recording in 2.7 and rendering in 4k then uploading was best?
Too much my head hurts now
"An ultra sharp high frame rate picture can actually not look the best to many people's eyes."
I have never understood why some people would think this. I mean the real world around us is 5billionK resolution at 3million frames per second. So it cant be that they are just not accustomed to seeing very high settings images. They look at the real world everyday. But for some reason, when they look at a screen, they decide, "nope, I don't want this to look like the real world, I want this to look like dog shit." Why?
Your eye also has motion blur, FWIW.
www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2012/12/05/3647276.htm
fascinating. So perhaps the streaks in the image gives the brain more information about direction and speed and helps the viewer mentally track the scene. If so, that would mean that 60fps is too fast to generate the streaks, and maybe also too slow to form smooth streaks on the viewers retina. Perhaps if we could hit 500fps, then the streak information would return, but this time in the retina instead of on the screen.
The other thing I would submit is that with infinite resolution of real life, perhaps less motion blur looks better. But on a screen with finite resolution, motion blur might help the pixels seem less obvious.
yes, I would agree with that.
@@michaelwilkes0 movies are filmed in 24 fps by the way. Interesting huh
I like your channel, but this video order waste of time ... 10-20 times repeat one and the same
I like the video but your microphone SUCKS!
Good info but I got seasick watching the video.
Calm down