This somehow reminds me of an old joke about a thrice widowed man. The first two died from eating mushroom soup that had poisonous mushrooms in it. The third one died from a head injury - she wouldn't eat the soup.
The global Methodist Church is waiting for you to join them... Join conservative wesleyan arminian emphasis and a Bible believing church. There's others as well...I would strongly recommend you guys go to a global Methodist Church.
Wow - The UMC leadership can't follow the Book of Discipline in regard to disciplining leaders who flaunt their own wishes over the church's established rules set forth in the Book of Discipline, but the leadership can certainly use the Book of Discipline to bash congregations over the head in asserting their authority over a church's assets and removing the congregation's ability to worship together. I can only imagine that due to the ongoing drop in membership, and therefore a drop in donations, the UMC is searching for ways to continue funding the denomination. In my city, there have been "mergers" combining two smaller congregations into one and selling off the abandoned church. Guess the UMC leadership just picks one church here and there to close and sell off their building to keep the $ flowing. Glad I left the UMC in 2021 and found a worship community that only uses power to proclaim the glory of God!
The church property was worth more than the perceived "value" of the congregation. That and the fact that the UMC is failing in that part of the country led the UMC to want to get their money now.
I am a member of the church and was not aware that T. Watanabe was Native American. She was hired as an outreach pastor, wrote her own job description and then changed her title to "transition minister". Both pastors used the term "Spirit" never "Holy Spirit". We were told that there were not enough volunteers willing to serve in committees and that the church would close as a result. So we filled out applications (for a volunteer committee! Unheard of!) and submitted them. Deena Wolfe would interview us. That never happened. The ministers also told us they were tired , from a 1/4 time job?, and would not participate in an upcoming Sunday service. I referred to it as "Abandonment Sunday". Our lay leader preached. and we had a wonderful potluck afterwards. We were looking forward to having another. As far as the church being unsafe, I do not believe that. We are mostly over 70 and do not harm others!! Just another way to shut it down!!
I was brought up in the Methodist Church. Not only did I leave the Church, I left the denomination as well. I am now a member in good standing in a local PCA Presbyterian Church. That denomination's parishes own their property.
I couldn't do that as I have a clear distinction from calvinistic emphasis albeit I affirm them as brethren. I went global Methodist as the other wesleyan denomination I was in has been in decline for a while and refuses to plant churches in my area. I stayed Wesleyan arminian and conservative.
I have been a Pastor in the ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) for 20+ years and I was shocked, as a young/new pastor, I found that Bishops kept around serial, congregation-wrecking Pastors. I couldn't imagine why a Bishop would continue to allow destructive Pastors to continue serving in their congregations! I have come to the conclusion that (1) Some Bishops LIKE destructive Pastors and put them into congregations they want closed and (2) some Bishops are friends with, and admire, destructive Pastors and so continue to promote them even though they destroy congregation after congregation. In the first instance, there is a symbiotic relationship between the Bishop and the destructive Pastor. In the second, they seem to think that to be truly "prophetic," means that you have to be destructive, and so the Bishops promote the destruction that they see as "God's work." The third (3) option may be that the Bishop has a bit of a "Savior Complex" and needs the destructive clergy to create disasters that then they can "save"; an almost "Munchausen by Proxy" syndrome.
I always thought it would be the government that would close churches. Turns out it's the leaders of a denomination that supposedly took vows to share the Gospel. What a turn of events!
Jeffrey, thanks for posting this report. I can only imagine the sacrifices the members of Trinity UMC have made over the years. It appears they were serving the community, paying their bills and just wanted to be left alone to worship with their friends. The very arbitrary way exigent circumstances are being used by the Annual conferences needs to be reigned in. If disaffiliations are allowed to continue past 2023, a lot of liberal congregations will flee.
Another very informative podcast Pastor. I think this one serves as an example of what I have oft stated ... When evil has consumed all that which is good, then it will turn upon the lesser of evils, those most vulnerable as the greater of evils pursues a course for which there is no foreseeable end to its insatiable desires. Blessings to You and Your Ministry
The church my parents were raised and married in, then raised my 2 elder brothers and I in and I married my 1st, now ex, husband in was shut down in 2002 then torn down in 2013. There's no trace on the land the church was built on it in 1963. My parents were the first couple to marry in that church in 1964. The old church that the new one was replacing was torn down to make way for I-70 going through that area of Zanesville, Ohio.
Yes...In America, in particular, we treat our buildings as very ephemeral things. We don't build to last. We don't maintain. It means that our most precious memories are marked/marred by decay moreso than, say, European environs. There is a comfort in knowing that the Lord sees, preserves, restores. Even so, I think it is wasteful and not at all wise to act as though our surroundings do not matter, or to practice detachment to such things like we are freaking Buddhists.
This is what happens when the Church, which the Bible describes in organic terms like body of Christ, bride of Christ, the household of faith, becomes quite worldly, a commercial business.
It's weird. I think it was my fault. It should be louder. But also it shouldn't be as low for some people as it seems to be. I don't know if it is a matter of what device folks are watching it on, or what. I don't think I'm big enough to be shadow banning yet. Anything is possible, though. Sorry for the audio issues...
If those people are all in their 70's and don't know any better than that, then they need to go learn from a different congregation. They are running out of time.
The question is who owns the property. If the main church owns the property and the partitioners break from the main body of the church, then the owners of the land and buildings, the main body of the church; can in fact close that building down. Will has nothing to do with it.
Nope...not at all.. I've been corresponding with the young Methodists for tradition who are quite resolute to stay behind..I keep sharing the videos from this brother and told them the global Methodist Church is waiting for them to come and they would be far more welcomed in an actual biblical Bible believing Christian denomination.
Good grief. You amateur TH-camrs need to learn how to edit and set volume levels properly. I'm tired of having to adjust the volume on my PC just to hear you.
@@plainspokenpod You can tell a lot about a man's character by how he responds to criticism. Thanks for the insight. As you wish, I will move along. Good luck with your channel.
This somehow reminds me of an old joke about a thrice widowed man. The first two died from eating mushroom soup that had poisonous mushrooms in it. The third one died from a head injury - she wouldn't eat the soup.
I am so thankful we are packing things up and leaving the UMC. BUH Bye
The global Methodist Church is waiting for you to join them...
Join conservative wesleyan arminian emphasis and a Bible believing church.
There's others as well...I would strongly recommend you guys go to a global Methodist Church.
Wow - The UMC leadership can't follow the Book of Discipline in regard to disciplining leaders who flaunt their own wishes over the church's established rules set forth in the Book of Discipline, but the leadership can certainly use the Book of Discipline to bash congregations over the head in asserting their authority over a church's assets and removing the congregation's ability to worship together. I can only imagine that due to the ongoing drop in membership, and therefore a drop in donations, the UMC is searching for ways to continue funding the denomination. In my city, there have been "mergers" combining two smaller congregations into one and selling off the abandoned church. Guess the UMC leadership just picks one church here and there to close and sell off their building to keep the $ flowing. Glad I left the UMC in 2021 and found a worship community that only uses power to proclaim the glory of God!
The church property was worth more than the perceived "value" of the congregation. That and the fact that the UMC is failing in that part of the country led the UMC to want to get their money now.
As a umc pastor who was ordered to turn in credentials, this is sad
I am a member of the church and was not aware that T. Watanabe was Native American. She was hired as an outreach pastor, wrote her own job description and then changed her title to "transition minister". Both pastors used the term "Spirit" never "Holy Spirit". We were told that there were not enough volunteers willing to serve in committees and that the church would close as a result. So we filled out applications (for a volunteer committee! Unheard of!) and submitted them. Deena Wolfe would interview us. That never happened. The ministers also told us they were tired , from a 1/4 time job?, and would not participate in an upcoming Sunday service. I referred to it as "Abandonment Sunday". Our lay leader preached. and we had a wonderful potluck afterwards. We were looking forward to having another. As far as the church being unsafe, I do not believe that. We are mostly over 70 and do not harm others!! Just another way to shut it down!!
I am so glad we left in July! We decided to stay non-denominational church. We saw the writing on the wall and got out before this happened to us!
I was brought up in the Methodist Church. Not only did I leave the Church, I left the denomination as well. I am now a member in good standing in a local PCA Presbyterian Church. That denomination's parishes own their property.
I couldn't do that as I have a clear distinction from calvinistic emphasis albeit I affirm them as brethren.
I went global Methodist as the other wesleyan denomination I was in has been in decline for a while and refuses to plant churches in my area.
I stayed Wesleyan arminian and conservative.
Me too! Presbyterians PCA also. Methodist for 25 years
The 2 pastors who assigned to Trinity who had closed and sold 3 other Churches is a new concept…Church headhunters!
I have been a Pastor in the ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) for 20+ years and I was shocked, as a young/new pastor, I found that Bishops kept around serial, congregation-wrecking Pastors. I couldn't imagine why a Bishop would continue to allow destructive Pastors to continue serving in their congregations! I have come to the conclusion that (1) Some Bishops LIKE destructive Pastors and put them into congregations they want closed and (2) some Bishops are friends with, and admire, destructive Pastors and so continue to promote them even though they destroy congregation after congregation. In the first instance, there is a symbiotic relationship between the Bishop and the destructive Pastor. In the second, they seem to think that to be truly "prophetic," means that you have to be destructive, and so the Bishops promote the destruction that they see as "God's work." The third (3) option may be that the Bishop has a bit of a "Savior Complex" and needs the destructive clergy to create disasters that then they can "save"; an almost "Munchausen by Proxy" syndrome.
I always thought it would be the government that would close churches. Turns out it's the leaders of a denomination that supposedly took vows to share the Gospel. What a turn of events!
Jeffrey, thanks for posting this report. I can only imagine the sacrifices the members of Trinity UMC have made over the years. It appears they were serving the community, paying their bills and just wanted to be left alone to worship with their friends. The very arbitrary way exigent circumstances are being used by the Annual conferences needs to be reigned in. If disaffiliations are allowed to continue past 2023, a lot of liberal congregations will flee.
When you abandon the word of God and Jesus Christ our lord and savior you are cast down.
The DS is a COWARD! This church was only closed because of the high dollar value of its property.
John Wesley never meant for trust clause to be used to close churches or as a weapon.
He's a souless, dishonorable, arrogant waste.
God will not be mocked
Another very informative podcast Pastor. I think this one serves as an example of what I have oft stated ... When evil has consumed all that which is good, then it will turn upon the lesser of evils, those most vulnerable as the greater of evils pursues a course for which there is no foreseeable end to its insatiable desires. Blessings to You and Your Ministry
Quite a sparse gathering, I still think many churches of all denominations were "overbuilt" ...
Women more gentle? Jezebel and Athaliah come to mind.
The church my parents were raised and married in, then raised my 2 elder brothers and I in and I married my 1st, now ex, husband in was shut down in 2002 then torn down in 2013. There's no trace on the land the church was built on it in 1963. My parents were the first couple to marry in that church in 1964. The old church that the new one was replacing was torn down to make way for I-70 going through that area of Zanesville, Ohio.
Yes...In America, in particular, we treat our buildings as very ephemeral things. We don't build to last. We don't maintain. It means that our most precious memories are marked/marred by decay moreso than, say, European environs. There is a comfort in knowing that the Lord sees, preserves, restores. Even so, I think it is wasteful and not at all wise to act as though our surroundings do not matter, or to practice detachment to such things like we are freaking Buddhists.
This is what happens when the Church, which the Bible describes in organic terms like body of Christ, bride of Christ, the household of faith, becomes quite worldly, a commercial business.
The bible does not describe something like the "bride of Christ"
@@bernhardbauer5301
B@@bernhardbauer5301
Another (possible) way to shadow ban a channel is to turn the volume down so low you cannot understand it. The volume is so low on this one...
It's weird. I think it was my fault. It should be louder. But also it shouldn't be as low for some people as it seems to be. I don't know if it is a matter of what device folks are watching it on, or what. I don't think I'm big enough to be shadow banning yet. Anything is possible, though. Sorry for the audio issues...
Our church was wrongfully closed.
Are you talking about this church, or another I haven’t yet reported?
If those people are all in their 70's and don't know any better than that, then they need to go learn from a different congregation. They are running out of time.
God means what he says when it comes to abomination.
God doesn't play games with it, people do.
There’s too many churches anyway. People need to find a way to get along. Just have one church, not a different one on every corner.
Greed knows no politics. Progressive or conservative, this can happen to you.
The question is who owns the property. If the main church owns the property and the partitioners break from the main body of the church, then the owners of the land and buildings, the main body of the church; can in fact close that building down. Will has nothing to do with it.
Please turn your audio output up. Thank you.
It looks like an elderly congregation.
Any other reasons to #stayumc?
Nope...not at all.. I've been corresponding with the young Methodists for tradition who are quite resolute to stay behind..I keep sharing the videos from this brother and told them the global Methodist Church is waiting for them to come and they would be far more welcomed in an actual biblical Bible believing Christian denomination.
Just too low volume. Will Try next one
The commercials have great volume
It us hard to feel bad watching the left turn on each other!
Spending 163 income 139 do the math
Good grief. You amateur TH-camrs need to learn how to edit and set volume levels properly. I'm tired of having to adjust the volume on my PC just to hear you.
…nobody is making you watch, man. Move along.
@@plainspokenpod You can tell a lot about a man's character by how he responds to criticism. Thanks for the insight. As you wish, I will move along. Good luck with your channel.