Donnie, you truly are a master at Swiss, this machine seemed impossible to program and wrap my head around, all until you said” you don’t want to look at this like 8 different parts, but 8 different progressions of 1 part” now it all makes sense.
I was just a single spindle, single turret, turning guy for 15 years. Just started swiss machines at a new place. Crazy and awesome! Fun and keeps me learning.
Crazy machine, it reminds me of progressive stamping dies, it's essentially the same principle but for machining parts instead of stamping them! Cool video Donnie!
We have these copper rod probe tips, about .200 in diameter, just a 10-24 thread on one end, we get orders of 2000, we have a Bar puller but no bar feeder, makes 25 parts per bar, they legit make me count every single part by hand even though I programmed in a part counter which no one knew how to use lol. Before me even they weren’t using a bar puller, they did it by hand with 1 minute cycle time.. can you imagine how boring that would be.
@@superneroes the customer is very picky, if I was off even 1 part, they would be very very upset, if my parts varied by .001 over 2000 parts that would be enough to get an inaccurate count
You guys are an inspiration. I have a manufacturing company but with different machines and a different product all together. It’s crazy how much I learn about business and general manufacturing processes from you guys. Keep it up!
Would love to see the stock set up program, since I used to run a gildenmeister sprint 20 and 32 but with 12 feet bar feeder. It looked cool when cutoff would also be the stock stopper when running main and sub side simultaneously 😊😊
I have a few questions; and they might be obvious to swiss-machine experts but here goes: 1) When programming this, what does the setup look like? Is it one program for each spindle, og an entire program with 8 different operations with one assigned to a spindle number? And is it done directly on the machine and stored there internally, or is it on a seperat system with Solidworks, Fusion360 etc.? 2) How does the machine know when the step that takes the longest to complete (e.g. the last step before spitting the part out, or hex milling) is done? What I mean with that is how does the machine knowo that it's safe to rotate the entire head with no collisions whatsoever? 3) What does the limit in rpm look like on spindles like these, and how often is it a problem? Because I can certainly see that, in itself, having an effect on cycle time. Thank in advance, and greetings from a fellow machinist in Denmark :)
I know questions 1 & 2 can be answered by a video they made a couple of months ago. (th-cam.com/video/AUS5SJ5XcWE/w-d-xo.html) You might check out their other videos on the multiswiss if you want to learn more!
So the programming is pretty easy on this machine. Yes you do one spindle at a time and you shut all the other spindles off. The machine has a software on it that gives a very accurate estimate on the timeline of each spindle. The video linked in the other reply does show this The max spindle speed is 8,000 rpm. That won’t typically hold you up until you try breaking the 6 second threshold for cycle time. That’s when things start to get nutty! Hope all that helps! Thanks for watching!!!
I'm a software developer by trade and a machinist by hobby and can say with some degree of authority that solving question #2 in software is basically trivial. "Wait for all these things to happen" is about the 2nd or 3rd primitive operation for any software that needs to simultaneously deal with multiple things at once. I have no idea how they chose to solve it, but if you need to know their answer in order to program the machine, they did it wrong. That said; there might be some room for shaving microseconds of the cycle time by exploiting those details, say by rotating the turret *while* the last tool is doing a rapid to get out of the way (resulting in there being no point where everything is static). But things shouldn't start by requiring that sort of detailed understanding.
These guys are salesmen for The Machining Industrial Complex. I don't think any of their parts are anything but programming exercises. Aerospace parts my ass...
This is how you do it... even if you can't push the WHOLE 8 steps within 11 seconds (I'm not certain if you even meant that you did in this instance?), it doesn't matter if one machine does all of them at parallel in cycle. Thus your total output speed is as long as your longest operation within those 8 steps. That's mass production right there....
This is incredible ! The amount of operations put into this is insane. Guys, I have a quick question (a bit of topic): What are applications of Al 1050 alloy via turning operation (rather than the more common sheet processes)? I would like to know if there are Al 1050 turned parts that are used commonly in industry. Any guidelines will be very helpful :) I would really appreciate it if anyone can help me with this.
Thinking about custom tools: 1) Could the drilling op on the counter spindle have been combined with the other drilling op via a multi diameter stepped drill? How would the cost of a custom drill bit compare to the cycle time improvement? 2) What about the face grooving operation; how would the time for that compare (faster? slower?) if it had been done via an annular cutter with all the right dimensions rather than feeding an end tool in and across? (Could an annular cutter be combined with the second drill op?) 3) How fast can the spindle doing the hex reverse direction? Would it be possible to make that custom bit have two sets of flutes facing opposite direction so that it could feed both ways and avoid the rapids that get it back around for the next face? Would that save enough (if any) time to pay for the added tool complexity and clearance issues (eyeballing it, the second flutes might need to be a larger diameter to clear the part)? These kind of question makes me sorta want to see a series of videos where each video takes a single feature and machines it in ever way that you all can think up to compare the speed, quality and cost of the results.
I would say yes 100% on the sub tooling ideas you have. One custom form tool could be made to do the whole back end in one shot. On the hex I would just polygon turn it. It would be 1/5 the time That’s a great idea for a future video! I like it
@@donniehinske an interesting option. But a polygon turning operation would require a station where both the part and the tool can be rotated at speed with fixed angular alignment. While I'm sure that can be done on some machines, I'm not seeing an operations here that need that so this machine might no be able to do that. For sure, there are some machine that can't. Also getting the correct fillet profile for the full length of the flat might not be possible that way.
For some time I worked on similar machines, but of a much older generation, where the movement of tools was controlled by camshafts. It's amazing how far technology has come.
When I see parts like that in a bin at a hardware or automotive store I've always wondered how they get made. Without that particular machine, what's the old school procedure? I don't mean one at a time by hand, but I'm sure it's a lot slower with an earlier machine. Incredible machine....... at 11 seconds to make, I'm trying to map the pricing from your shop to the $18.79 sticker on that part at ACE. Must be the $8.00 piece of brass stock. 😁 Thanks guys, these are fantastic videos. 👍👍👍
Honestly it’s good you think that way when looking at everyday items. Not enough people ever bother to think that way. The old school way is with cam driven machines. Multispindle machines are not new technology but CNC Multispindle machines kind of are. Back in the day it was all just mechanical. The machines are actually still used today for simple parts. The older machines didn’t have all these extra axis and gizmos to make everything as easy as it is today
@@donniehinske At age 8, I broke my wind up alarm clock, then asked mom "can I take it apart, it's broke" 😁 I wanted to know how the second hand clicked so flawlessly and centering on each of those marks on the dial. Curiosity killed the clock. 😁 Thanks for the reply. 👍
The machine is fascinating, but could we get a video on what the PM cycle on a machine like this is? For those of us interested in one, with amount of things moving and twisting I would assume there's some kind of finite lifespan on hoses, cables, filters, (belts?) etc. - it would be great to see what the monthly/quarterly/yearly maintenance looks like.
It would be a boring video tbh 😂 We did a video on the components of the machine and it shows how there are multiple devices in the machine for filtration, temperature etc. it really does take care of itself for the most part. Anything like a hose breaking would be a freak accident in my opinion
Hi Donnie, quick question. How long is a typical changeover on this machine? I work in medical, and we have a lot of different swiss parts (all 11,000 + per year each). My employer is looking at this exact machine, but i still think the flexibility of a swiss cell is better since you can make multiple parts at once
I’d say it depends on a few factors. How different are your parts in geometry? Material type/ size? And how many 11,000 piece orders are we talking? I think you are on the right track with a few different Swiss machines tbh. Yes you CAN switch this thing over in a few hours but it depends on how much of a change over you are willing to deal with. Every station and every spindle can take a bit of time BUT if it’s 15 different parts with similar material sizes and tooling then yes it COULD be faster. I hate to say it depends….. but it depends 😂 sorry. Hope that answer was a little helpful
@@donniehinske Thanks Donnie, it actually is 15 parts to start with. With various diameters, some parts requiring a B axis. I have an uphill battle talking my boss out of buying this, because I'm the guy making the parts
would really like to hear how electric vehicle will impact these complex part machining tool/production industry it's said that electric car greatly reduced these need, is it true / to what extant? a pod cast on these tide change will be very interesting (and useful for those who decide to enter the field)
Swiss machines are cool, but the main limitation is setup. There are some variations on Swiss machines that are suitable for flexible manufacturing, where you don't need 14,000 of part X today, you need 50 part X, and 37 Part Y and 200 part Z and 41 of part A, with a totally different mix tomorrow.
Isn't this like the German Index machine? I was wondering why Titans of CNC never showed an Index machine. Actually the Index in a way can do more, as it can perform three operations per position.
So each operation takes 6-11seconds and the longest is 11 seconds but the part goes through 8 spindles so it takes longer than 11 seconds to machine EACH part but in the end every 11 seconds a finished part dropping into the container? I just didn’t see the whole part being machined in only 11 seconds… great great video btw
@@gearloose703 Don't know with certainty, but at 00:38 of the video he says "this part is a small spline shaft for the automotive industry" ..... regardless, it is an impress cycle time.
3:18 precision machine but that tap isn't perfectly in line! I ran a little capstan lathe 50 years ago that had misaligned tap holder and constantly broke taps. Bosses weren't interested in getting it realligned!
That’s is a phony machine shop! Where is the material, where are the people. I don’t see machines running! You make money on TH-cam not a real machine shop
Automotive is the worst sector to sub contract for. Net 90 payment, cancelled orders, and other fuckery make it schetchy. I know a shop that literally makes money only on the scrap they sell after the part is made
Yeah. While it's fun seeing things taken all the way, it would also be interesting to see what other points on the cost curve look like. Could you get a part every 20 seconds on a machine that you could buy two of for the same costs? (Or that you could install two of in the same floor space?) Running multiple machines (that have the same capacity in aggregate) has advantages all it's own. Taking one down for maintenance or re-tooling has less effect on production, you can run smaller runs of different parts at the same time. That sort of thing.
This machine is truly a modern marvel of engineering! I absolutely love working on it and making these videos on it! Such a fun job!
It sure is😍😍😍🔥
Awaiting more videos on this beast of a machine!
i'm not sure if you have explained it but how does the bar feeding work? is there always a whole bar feeded in every spindle?
@@Luspe94
Donnie mentioned/explained the bar feeding process in its first video. Check that out.
Donnie, you truly are a master at Swiss, this machine seemed impossible to program and wrap my head around, all until you said” you don’t want to look at this like 8 different parts, but 8 different progressions of 1 part” now it all makes sense.
You are soo lucky Donnie
I was just a single spindle, single turret, turning guy for 15 years. Just started swiss machines at a new place. Crazy and awesome! Fun and keeps me learning.
Crazy machine, it reminds me of progressive stamping dies, it's essentially the same principle but for machining parts instead of stamping them! Cool video Donnie!
Very cool! I actually really love the rotating part catcher and programmable quantity. Nothing worse than having to manually count 1,000's of parts
We have these copper rod probe tips, about .200 in diameter, just a 10-24 thread on one end, we get orders of 2000, we have a Bar puller but no bar feeder, makes 25 parts per bar, they legit make me count every single part by hand even though I programmed in a part counter which no one knew how to use lol. Before me even they weren’t using a bar puller, they did it by hand with 1 minute cycle time.. can you imagine how boring that would be.
@@adammiller4879WOW… just WOW! That sounds terrible 😂.
Or you could weight them 😄
@@superneroes the customer is very picky, if I was off even 1 part, they would be very very upset, if my parts varied by .001 over 2000 parts that would be enough to get an inaccurate count
@adammiller4879 then weight 50 at a time 😄
The custom tool deburring the hex was the most satisfying part of the video. 🖖😀
Great video, Donnie! The multi Swiss is an intriguing machine to watch. I can’t wait to see what machines are in those crates! 😊
hiemer tool automated presetter, as a guess
I will say they are open and people are going to live what they see! They look amazing!!!
Love working on these machines. Been working with them for 4-5 years.
That was cool man! Really enjoyed that. Sometimes those machines move so fast you really have no idea what is going on inside. Great breakdown!
The editors had tooo much fun on this video 🤣. Great job guys!
Crazy machine indeed!😎 Great video, really simplifying the process, Donnie! Also, amazing shooting/ editing Corey!👏👏👏
I worked with single spindle Swiss for over 22 years amazing what Tornos has created they never stop planning for the future 😅
Come on Titan Guys. Yes, Index had these machines for a long time. But how many can afford these. Post contents that are for the mainstream.
Great video Donnie! The Multi Swiss is Crazy!
Station 9 humour built-in Donnie mega explanation of a fantastic mach/tools could you crank 5% more? Titans keep on Booming ON
holy crap this machine is wild
I already did subscribe, ages ago ❤
I learnt some of my marching in the seventies on a manual multi spindle machines was all ways fun
Great video Donnie! This machine is crazy!
Henry Ford approves of this CNC assembly line
Amazing awesome procces machining waw great videos nice sharing good luck
Wow look at all the boxes! Great video Donnie 💪
You guys are an inspiration. I have a manufacturing company but with different machines and a different product all together. It’s crazy how much I learn about business and general manufacturing processes from you guys. Keep it up!
it's a whole production line in 1 machine. crazy :D
such a good video in every aspect. man love these guys
Honestly my favorite machine to watch dance.
Amazing machine
Would love to see the stock set up program, since I used to run a gildenmeister sprint 20 and 32 but with 12 feet bar feeder. It looked cool when cutoff would also be the stock stopper when running main and sub side simultaneously 😊😊
That's insane 😂, crazy fast
I have a few questions; and they might be obvious to swiss-machine experts but here goes:
1) When programming this, what does the setup look like? Is it one program for each spindle, og an entire program with 8 different operations with one assigned to a spindle number?
And is it done directly on the machine and stored there internally, or is it on a seperat system with Solidworks, Fusion360 etc.?
2) How does the machine know when the step that takes the longest to complete (e.g. the last step before spitting the part out, or hex milling) is done?
What I mean with that is how does the machine knowo that it's safe to rotate the entire head with no collisions whatsoever?
3) What does the limit in rpm look like on spindles like these, and how often is it a problem?
Because I can certainly see that, in itself, having an effect on cycle time.
Thank in advance, and greetings from a fellow machinist in Denmark :)
I know questions 1 & 2 can be answered by a video they made a couple of months ago. (th-cam.com/video/AUS5SJ5XcWE/w-d-xo.html) You might check out their other videos on the multiswiss if you want to learn more!
So the programming is pretty easy on this machine. Yes you do one spindle at a time and you shut all the other spindles off.
The machine has a software on it that gives a very accurate estimate on the timeline of each spindle. The video linked in the other reply does show this
The max spindle speed is 8,000 rpm. That won’t typically hold you up until you try breaking the 6 second threshold for cycle time. That’s when things start to get nutty!
Hope all that helps! Thanks for watching!!!
I'm a software developer by trade and a machinist by hobby and can say with some degree of authority that solving question #2 in software is basically trivial. "Wait for all these things to happen" is about the 2nd or 3rd primitive operation for any software that needs to simultaneously deal with multiple things at once. I have no idea how they chose to solve it, but if you need to know their answer in order to program the machine, they did it wrong.
That said; there might be some room for shaving microseconds of the cycle time by exploiting those details, say by rotating the turret *while* the last tool is doing a rapid to get out of the way (resulting in there being no point where everything is static). But things shouldn't start by requiring that sort of detailed understanding.
Appreciated your efforts
I always wondered when CNC,s would catch up with a multi spindle machines. For cycle times.😊
Nice process you guys have there, but looks more like a Brass Faucet Cartridge than an automotive part 😁
These guys are salesmen for The Machining Industrial Complex. I don't think any of their parts are anything but programming exercises.
Aerospace parts my ass...
Your best video
This is how you do it... even if you can't push the WHOLE 8 steps within 11 seconds (I'm not certain if you even meant that you did in this instance?), it doesn't matter if one machine does all of them at parallel in cycle. Thus your total output speed is as long as your longest operation within those 8 steps.
That's mass production right there....
all the guys in the audience are well aware of thermal growth :P
Some. New machinists might bot
Wow What a machine
This is incredible ! The amount of operations put into this is insane.
Guys, I have a quick question (a bit of topic): What are applications of Al 1050 alloy via turning operation (rather than the more common sheet processes)? I would like to know if there are Al 1050 turned parts that are used commonly in industry. Any guidelines will be very helpful :)
I would really appreciate it if anyone can help me with this.
Thinking about custom tools:
1) Could the drilling op on the counter spindle have been combined with the other drilling op via a multi diameter stepped drill? How would the cost of a custom drill bit compare to the cycle time improvement?
2) What about the face grooving operation; how would the time for that compare (faster? slower?) if it had been done via an annular cutter with all the right dimensions rather than feeding an end tool in and across? (Could an annular cutter be combined with the second drill op?)
3) How fast can the spindle doing the hex reverse direction? Would it be possible to make that custom bit have two sets of flutes facing opposite direction so that it could feed both ways and avoid the rapids that get it back around for the next face? Would that save enough (if any) time to pay for the added tool complexity and clearance issues (eyeballing it, the second flutes might need to be a larger diameter to clear the part)?
These kind of question makes me sorta want to see a series of videos where each video takes a single feature and machines it in ever way that you all can think up to compare the speed, quality and cost of the results.
I would say yes 100% on the sub tooling ideas you have. One custom form tool could be made to do the whole back end in one shot.
On the hex I would just polygon turn it. It would be 1/5 the time
That’s a great idea for a future video! I like it
@@donniehinske an interesting option. But a polygon turning operation would require a station where both the part and the tool can be rotated at speed with fixed angular alignment. While I'm sure that can be done on some machines, I'm not seeing an operations here that need that so this machine might no be able to do that. For sure, there are some machine that can't. Also getting the correct fillet profile for the full length of the flat might not be possible that way.
For some time I worked on similar machines, but of a much older generation, where the movement of tools was controlled by camshafts. It's amazing how far technology has come.
badass machine
When I see parts like that in a bin at a hardware or automotive store I've always wondered how they get made.
Without that particular machine, what's the old school procedure? I don't mean one at a time by hand, but I'm sure it's a lot slower with an earlier machine.
Incredible machine....... at 11 seconds to make, I'm trying to map the pricing from your shop to the $18.79 sticker on that part at ACE. Must be the $8.00 piece of brass stock. 😁
Thanks guys, these are fantastic videos. 👍👍👍
Honestly it’s good you think that way when looking at everyday items. Not enough people ever bother to think that way.
The old school way is with cam driven machines. Multispindle machines are not new technology but CNC Multispindle machines kind of are. Back in the day it was all just mechanical. The machines are actually still used today for simple parts. The older machines didn’t have all these extra axis and gizmos to make everything as easy as it is today
@@donniehinske At age 8, I broke my wind up alarm clock, then asked mom "can I take it apart, it's broke" 😁
I wanted to know how the second hand clicked so flawlessly and centering on each of those marks on the dial.
Curiosity killed the clock. 😁
Thanks for the reply. 👍
Wie sicher ist der prozess bei Stahl oder höheren teilen? Schwesterwerkzeug? Werkzeugbruchüberwachung? Sehr krasse maschine
Do you use some kind of Lean production in your shop? Lean or Agile?
Airgun in the shoes is my dayly routine
I love you 😂❤
how often do you inspect this parts in production?
Can you use polygon turning on station 6 or is it better to do it with your custom tool?
You could polygon turn it 100%
The machine is fascinating, but could we get a video on what the PM cycle on a machine like this is? For those of us interested in one, with amount of things moving and twisting I would assume there's some kind of finite lifespan on hoses, cables, filters, (belts?) etc. - it would be great to see what the monthly/quarterly/yearly maintenance looks like.
It would be a boring video tbh 😂 We did a video on the components of the machine and it shows how there are multiple devices in the machine for filtration, temperature etc. it really does take care of itself for the most part. Anything like a hose breaking would be a freak accident in my opinion
I know tornos cnc's from 1995 still running in 2023, part counts on some are 7 million +
What about a custom drill so when it reach final depth it also leaves a chamfer on the part ( you have the grinder for it so it should be easy to make
Perfeito parabéns aos titans
Cabral de Americana sp Brasil
so could you cut a nptf thread on the backside of the shoulder like that, trying to think of the mechanics
Hi Donnie, quick question. How long is a typical changeover on this machine? I work in medical, and we have a lot of different swiss parts (all 11,000 + per year each). My employer is looking at this exact machine, but i still think the flexibility of a swiss cell is better since you can make multiple parts at once
I’d say it depends on a few factors. How different are your parts in geometry? Material type/ size? And how many 11,000 piece orders are we talking?
I think you are on the right track with a few different Swiss machines tbh. Yes you CAN switch this thing over in a few hours but it depends on how much of a change over you are willing to deal with. Every station and every spindle can take a bit of time BUT if it’s 15 different parts with similar material sizes and tooling then yes it COULD be faster.
I hate to say it depends….. but it depends 😂 sorry. Hope that answer was a little helpful
@@donniehinske Thanks Donnie, it actually is 15 parts to start with. With various diameters, some parts requiring a B axis. I have an uphill battle talking my boss out of buying this, because I'm the guy making the parts
How does it pay off? What types of parts is it intended for?
nice
Godlike machine
Can it do all that on Titanium material?
he got a free push and he took full advantage
this is insane
Where you insert the blank material?
What happens with the bar from the barfeeder when the spindles turn around?
I thought each spindle has a bar inside only moving to different stations.
would really like to hear how electric vehicle will impact these complex part machining tool/production industry
it's said that electric car greatly reduced these need, is it true / to what extant?
a pod cast on these tide change will be very interesting (and useful for those who decide to enter the field)
Its a God tier machine
Swiss machines are cool, but the main limitation is setup. There are some variations on Swiss machines that are suitable for flexible manufacturing, where you don't need 14,000 of part X today, you need 50 part X, and 37 Part Y and 200 part Z and 41 of part A, with a totally different mix tomorrow.
yeees new vid
do a video with „what happen with end materials / bar reload“ pls
How much does it realistically cost to make a product like this when it is produced by a cnc like this???
Isn't this like the German Index machine? I was wondering why Titans of CNC never showed an Index machine. Actually the Index in a way can do more, as it can perform three operations per position.
WOW!
what about the usage rate of inserts on tools?
wouldn't they last forever on brass?
"whatever that is in metric" or .0864 Donnie's 😁
Bring in the Doosans
And this is all automated I wonder how many man-hours this used to take before we had CNC machines
Imagine the mess when a tool breaks and it isnt caught by the load gauge.
❤loves😢
So each operation takes 6-11seconds and the longest is 11 seconds but the part goes through 8 spindles so it takes longer than 11 seconds to machine EACH part but in the end every 11 seconds a finished part dropping into the container? I just didn’t see the whole part being machined in only 11 seconds… great great video btw
What's price this machine in India in rupy.
So it's actually an 88sec part, 11sec per station. But once the stations are full it's a finished part every 11sec.
R U sure that isn't an ordinary sink faucet stem???
Didn't really listen but is this real work for this machine or just for show?
@@gearloose703 Don't know with certainty, but at 00:38 of the video he says "this part is a small spline shaft for the automotive industry" ..... regardless, it is an impress cycle time.
Mis leading 11 secs part elaborate further pls.
3:18 precision machine but that tap isn't perfectly in line!
I ran a little capstan lathe 50 years ago that had misaligned tap holder and constantly broke taps.
Bosses weren't interested in getting it realligned!
I thought they even had special shoes with nanoventilation))))
3:00 I should call her
Jeez 740K people subscribed to this advertisements for tools.
Ok but who's going to buy that huge production? 😢
modern marvel. screw machines rule.
✅️
Very consistent parts... uses spring tapping 😅
ah yes, the good ol *rundtaktzerspanungssautomat*
Yup, that’s a valid German word.
Donnie Hinske
11초 죽이내
i didn't hit the subscribe button becouse it would make me unsubscribe ;D sorry
That’s is a phony machine shop!
Where is the material, where are the people.
I don’t see machines running!
You make money on TH-cam not a real machine shop
Don't show your appearance dude, show the machinery and also reduce your words
Automotive is the worst sector to sub contract for. Net 90 payment, cancelled orders, and other fuckery make it schetchy. I know a shop that literally makes money only on the scrap they sell after the part is made
F YT. I WAS UN-SUBBED
Hey Donnie. Will you make a video consisting of the cheapest tooling possible. To see what kind of results we get?
Yeah. While it's fun seeing things taken all the way, it would also be interesting to see what other points on the cost curve look like. Could you get a part every 20 seconds on a machine that you could buy two of for the same costs? (Or that you could install two of in the same floor space?)
Running multiple machines (that have the same capacity in aggregate) has advantages all it's own. Taking one down for maintenance or re-tooling has less effect on production, you can run smaller runs of different parts at the same time. That sort of thing.