He had 600 men at the beginning, only 43 remained after the encounter with Poseidon, which means 557 died by that point. One more named Elpenor actually died by accident after entering Circe's home but he's often forgotten, so 558 is a nod to him as well.
Fun Fact 1: The ghosts are singing their final thoughts before they die. Fun Fact 2: The woman who played Odysseus's mother was Jorge's (the creator) mom.
dang you beat me to it... "Fun" Fact 2.5: In The Odyssey our boy asks his mother for an embrace but she keeps out of reach and tells him she can't anymore because she's dead.
I don't really see why Polites last thought would be to double down on the open arms thing while they're trying to survive a murderous Cyclops after diplomacy failed
I am the monster *rawr* *rawr* *rawr* 🎹🎹 I am the monster *rawr* *rawr* *rawr* 🎹🎹 I am the Monster, I am the MONSTERRR I am the monster *rawr* *rawr* *rawr* 🎹🎹
For the Thunder Saga I recommend: Suffering (Gigi) Different Beasts (Ximena Natzel) Scylla (VirusAP or Gigi) Mutiny (Crashite) Thunder Bringer (Neal Illustrator) (pls this one is soooo cool)
The VA of the prophet, Teresias, is Mason Olshavsky and yes he has similar vocal tone to Jorge's. Many have mentioned the similarity of their voices and also many mistook it for Jorge's.
This is the second time I've heard somebody say this and I can't hear it? At all?? I was floored the first time I heard someone say that lmaoo [Mild character SPOILER ahead❗- ig? but they are mentioned so often at this point it's expected that they'll show up] I think that the people that voice Odysseus and Telemachus sound exactly the same! Like I can't head the difference at all!! The first time I head Telemachus I thought it was Ody singing until he said something about his dad 😭😭
You found the easter egg! So Ody had 600 men to start. 7 of them were killed by the Cyclops and 550 were killed (in this musical) by Poseidon. So that leaves him with 43 men alive. However the Underworld lyrics state that 558 were killed under his command, leaving one man unaccounted for. That man is Elpenor, the youngest man in Odysseus's crew, who, during the Circe's Saga, got drunk, wandered up to the roof of Circe's palace(see the end of Gigi's there are other ways animatic), and fell off of the roof and died.
Not only, as many commenters have mentioned, is the singer for Ody's mom the creator's mom - but lore wise, Ody was almost home. Ithica was literally in sight until the bag was opened and his mom /saw/ it happen. She believed the storm sank all the ships and everyone died. She was so devastated from the sight that she killed herself from the grief of seeing her son die before her eyes. So yes, he's just learning his mom has died.
17:00 How animatics work… So for the *livestream* releases of each album (different from the animatics you’ve seen), Jorge commissions partial animatics and provides reference photos, choreography mockups, and back-and-forth discussion with the animatic artists. There are narrative notes interspersed with the animatics in the livestream to communicate some of the intended staging as well. Plus he’s shared a lot of behind the scenes notes and insight via TikTok and Patreon and Discord, and has even shared some choreography videos of certain songs (eg “There Are Other Ways”) via those platforms. Independent animatic artists then use all of that as guidance and inspiration to make their own interpretations of the songs in these full animatics you’re watching (along with their own knowledge of Homer’s Odyssey and the non Homeric Epic Cycle and Greek myth in general, plus often sourcing character appearances from the visual appearance of the cast). and THEN-Jorge often ends up commissioning the independent animatic artists for parts of the next livestream! So for example, Gigi was making Epic animatics on her own for a while as a personal project/labor of love, and then Jay commissioned her for official canon livestream animatics. She still makes her own versions separately which differ from livestream canon, as well, in addition to the ones shown on the livestream. It’s always very cool to see familiar artist names pop up on the livestream.
As for the future of EPIC: Jay’s done a few videos on this. There’s nothing set in stone but he’s open to a bunch of possibilities. My impression based on those videos is that he’s most interested in doing an animated movie of EPIC, that’s what he can most easily imagine it as. He’s open to a stage production but says he feels like it would require fairly high tech, so he imagines it on a Cirque du Soleil stage or something. -Personally, I think Jay just isn’t a choreographer, set designer, or stage director. He’s a composer and an actor. I think it’s VERY possible to interpret EPIC for Broadway (or off-Broadway, but you get the idea). I think you could even do it without a ton of technical effects. Biggest challenges I see will be 1. the number of sets/locations (but there are all kinds of creative staging options to work around that) and 2. the role of Odysseus, when the hell is the actor supposed to get any vocal rest before intermission??? The character has challenging demanding parts in almost every song. And sings a LOT in almost every song. You’d have to like… have 3 Odysseus actors so they could alternate showings, or something xD Anyway, Jay’s also expressed interest in other adaptations. Live action movie, sure, but he seemed more excited about an animated film. There’s an indie video game in the works spearheaded by a fan, Liam Davidson, with permission from Jay’s company. I’m sure I’m forgetting something.
It should also be mentioned that the canonicity of the Livestream Animatics, while generally greater than those outside the Livestreams, is still fairly liquid and subject to change. These are still only concept albums at the end of the day, and things may be added/changed/taken away over time and across the various future adaptations.
Hello, Myth fact guy here ! Elpenor is one who died on Circe's island after getting drunk on the roof of her palace (after a party) and... well fell..., in the myth Odysseus and the crew was surprise to see Elpenor in the underworld, then he asked them to bury his body, so they go back to Circe's island to bury poor Elpenor... and about Odysseus mother, she saw her son's fleet approached then taking away by the storm of the wind bag... yeah I think she died with grief. The point is, he failed the moment he let the Cyclop live and told him his name.
Its truly heartbreaking to me that Odysseus didn't know his mother was dead until he saw her in the underworld. Even worse: during keep your friends close, before the bag was opened, they had gotten close enough to Ithaca that his mother saw the ships. But then the bag was opened and the ships disappeared in a freak storm. Believing her son dead, she died of grief and heartbreak. If the goddamn bag hadn't been opened, he would have gotten to see her again alive. Also, odys mom is being voiced by jorges mom
7:19 Never fails to make me cry. Especially with my work with me being gone at sea for a while. Always tear up at this moment. First time I heard this I called my mom afterwards
Obligatory "I am the monster Rawr Rawr Rawr!!!" 13:40 the point was if he didn't his family WOULD die (by the "child") and his kingdom would burn... they never promised an easy road home. Edit: Also... imagine going to this musical hearing Monster and then *BAM!* Intermission. The theater is either silent or so loud you can barely hear you conversation with friends.
A sad fact that makes it hit harder is that all the souls relive their last thoughts. Also, in a couple of iterations, Odyssey's mom saw them get taken by the wind bag, and it is what broke her. But great reaction, I absolutely love seeing your traumatic journey.
Also, to add to the trauma, they can't see or interact with anyone down there, so only Odyssey was able to say goodbye, and his mom is forever waiting.
13:46 the point was to avoid the specific tragedy Zeus was threatening him with, which he did. Zeus didn't promise to save him from anything else, he just wanted to see a dead baby that day.
To be fair to Zeus, he was warning Odysseus that the other gods would turn Hectors son against him. Zeus was talking about the gods who sided with Troy during the war. They wanted to get even and the prince of Troy would make for the perfect tool to enact their revenge.
Super cool fun fac in minute 24:45 when penelope take the headband of odyseus (the same headband that polites was using ) the scene is trying to say "he's no longer gonna try to greet the world with open arms" (and remenber for thunder bringer watch neil ilustrator animatic the guy is incredible)
For the thunder saga i recommend Suffering by gigi Different Beast by Ximena Natzel Scylla by gigi Mutiny by Riley G Thunder Bringer by Neal Illustrator
killing the baby wasn't to make ody's life better, it was because the baby would grow up to be a vengeful man who would stop at nothing to kill everyone and everything that ody loved some lyrics from the first song (the horse and the infant): This is the son of none other than Troy's very own Prince Hector Know that he will grow from a boy to an avenger One fueled with rage as you're consumed by age If you don't end him now, you'll have no one left to save I could raise him as my own (He will burn your house and throne) Or send him far away from home (He'll find you wherever you go) Make sure his past is never known (The gods will make him know) I'd rather bleed for you, down on my knees for ya (He's bringing you down on your knees) I'm begging please (*This is the will of the gods*) and it ends with "The blood on your hands is something you won't lose. All you can choose is whose." so there was reason behind ody's choice to kill the baby, as much as he didn't want to do it, the god's forced his hand, and we get to see a glimpse of just how far ody is willing to go to get back home to his family
@@DevinDoingstuff the original source material didnt have Odysseus throwing the baby off a wall. That came at a later interpretation to paint him in a bad light. Namely by the Romans who claim to descend from the Trojans
@@dgrmn12345 The Romans, their Trojan relations valid or not, just despised the man. It's even technically referenced later in God Games with how Ares, the God of War whom the Romans favored over Athena, pretty much voices all the main complaints the Romans had about Odysseus. 😂
Like you mentioned, Odysseus' drive is to get home to see his wife and child again. That's always been his goal. Now, after "No Longer You", he's just been told that he'll never get home (well not exactly but that's what he took away from it), so how he's DESPERATE. He HAS to get home, no matter what. Ody has his own morals and has tried to stick to them, but now he reflects on all the foes he's been up against and deemed cruel: they all did what they thought was necessary to achieve their goals and peace, even if that meant they had to be cruel. So Odysseus wonders if he must also become heartless if that's what's needed to achieve HIS goal and HIS peace. TLDR: Odysseus freaks out because he's been "told" he'll never get home to his family, and that's simply Not An Option. So he starts wondering: If being a monster will get him home, should he choose that instead of keeping his kindness and never getting back?
Your reactions are fabulous. (And you sound like a really dedicated and invested dad to your kids, that’s so refreshing to see. And I imagine wonderful modeling of emotional openness too, based on your reactions. We need more of that in the world.) I love imagining EPIC as a stage play and thinking about how it would feel to sit through to the end of “Monster” and then it’s… intermission. Because this is the end of Act I. Can you imagine the mood of the audience as everyone goes to get their restroom breaks and snacks??
558 man died... Poseidon left him with 43, but in the books, 1 of his man got dronk in Cerci's island and fell from the balcony. so... hes left with 42. thats why they say "558 men hwo died under your comand"
8:08 oh it's way worse then that. Remember the moment the crew opened the bag in Keep Your Friends Close? In the original they were literally in the viewing distance from Ithaca in that moment and she was standing on the pier seeing her son finally come home. She thought that Odysseus died when the bag opened which broke her heart and lead to her death.
Ah, another soul just like Odysseus, that didn’t understand what the prophet said. The prophet gonna prophet lol. His words are correct but not in the way you think. His words are perfectly cryptic.
Fun facts for Tiresias (the prophet)- the souls behind him are actually saying future bits in the remaining sagas. In mythology, Athena or Hera blinded him and gave him the gift of prophecy. Judging by the music (piano), I assume they went with the Athena route, which would make sense because of how influential she is in Epic. The choir in Monster are the souls, chanting that he is, in fact, a monster. Damned souls screaming at you. Imagine that. (And separate animatic details from Gigi. The headband the vision of Penelope rips off is from Polites. It further signifies Odysseus losing his humanity and giving into the monster, and 21:51 … Bottom right corner of the screen).
"Losing his humanity" is taking things a bit far. His justifications to himself about becoming a monster all center around his desire to get himself and his men home. His idea of what a monster is ultimately equates to what Athena's "Warrior of the Mind" is meant to be. The Monster he already was before he was faced with the choice to kill the baby and the guilt that insued as a result. The Monster who would have gotten all 600 men he led to war back home with him alive. That's what Odysseus' Monster is. Not an inhuman man, but a human man with his priorities in tact, and a willingness to ignore his emotions in order to do whatever needs to be done in order to accomplish his goal, even if he knows he'll hate himself for it once he takes the time stop ignoring his emotions.
@@colt1903when I said “lose his humanity” I more so mean that he’s losing all of his mercy. Was trying to say it in a way that wouldn’t hint to anything in Thunder. (As we see later, Athena isn’t exactly happy with his actions. So, I don’t think his route is entirely the warrior she wanted, but that’s all I’ll say, in case he reads the replies).
@icemagiciangh What gave you the idea she wasn't happy? She seemed more surprised things went so wrong for him, but not once does she seem upset with his actions. The only thing she's ever gotten upset with him over is the argument they had which was based on the fact that he wasn't acting like himself after he killed the baby. Meaning she has no issue with him killing killing said baby or any of the heinous things he may have done before that. The only thing she has issue with was that he stopped behaving logically after he killed the baby because he was letting guilt and the like get to him. Hell, she actively excuses all his monstrous acts later. That means she supports him. I literally have no idea where you could have gotten it that she's unhappy with his decisions.
@ i won’t get into the discussion further, as it has massive spoilers. Would you please delete your comments? They’re spoilers, and I know reactors look at comments and their responses
My friend, after months of begging, finally got me to listen/watch Epic as well and oof... it hits. Glad to know I'm not the only one to get emotional at these beautiful songs lol. I'm glad you started reacting to them as well! Such a talented cast~
Love seeing another reaction to this awesome musical! For the animatics to the Thunder Saga I recommend: Suffering- Gigi Different Beasts- Ximena Natzel Scylla- VirusAP (fr, this one is _so cool_ ) Mutiny- Riley G Thunder Bringer- DuvetBox
I am SO glad I am not the only one who cries when we hear his mom. Odysseus's mom is voiced by the creator's (Voice of Odysseus, Jorge Rivera) real mom. Appearently, when Jorge quit pursuing higher education to make Epic, it caused a rift between him and his parents, so having her voice in one of these songs is so significant to real life as well. Also great analysis about the words of the prophet! The lyrics can be interpreted in multiple ways, but almost all interpretations are correct in SOME way. (thanks for being so cryptic, Teresias.)
Hmmm, the animatics for the Thunder saga are tough to pick. More specifically the first song. In my opinion it could be better to watch the first song - Suffering - without an animatic. At least at first. The song is kinda meant to confuse you and make you figure out what's happening and none of the existing animatics give that feeling. But if you don't want to experiance that then this is the list i recommend: - Suffering, Gigi (video 1) - Different Beast, Duvetbox (video 1) - Scylla, Krieo (video 2) - Mutiny, Riley G (video 2) - Thunder Bringer, Duvetbox (video 3)
I’m absolutely loving these reactions, every time I listen to Underworld I get all teary eyed but this time I was straight up crying with you lol, I feel like a big ol blubbering baby.
The 558 men who died under his command are from different circumstances. 6 of the men were killed by Polyphemus (the cyclops), including Poletes. Another 551 men were killed by Poseidon during "Ruthlessness". There was one who died when they were on Circe's island, Elpenor. Elpenor got drunk and fell off the roof of Circe's home and broke his neck and died alone and forgotten (even by the musical as he's only alluded to in the 558 men who died under his command). So, when they're in the Underworld there are only 42 men left under Odysseus's command. As for Tiresias's prophecy, the chorus actually tells you what the events are: A song of past romance: Siren song The sacrifice of man: Scylla's throat Portrayals of betrayal: Mutiny A brother's final stand: Lightning bolt Faces of men who long believed Odysseus's dead: The suitors for Penelope Palace painted in red: Slaughter for the sake of love As for "a man who makes it home alive, but it's no longer you" I don't know how much to say, but those who are familiar with the story of The Odyssey will know what that's referring to. Based on the animatics for "Legendary", it does look like Jorge is going to include the bestest boy in all of literature, Argos, and if so...be prepared to be heartbroken. "Monster" is one of my favorite songs in all of "Epic: the Musical" because it shows just how determined Odysseus is to get back home and it foreshadows how much he is willing to sacrifice in the Thunder Saga. Also, in Gigi's animatic for "Monster", did you notice Penelope taking off Poletes's headband from Odysseus's head? That implies a lot.
The number seems off because of Elpenor; he didn't die in the Cyclops attack or the Poseidon attack He got drunk at Circe's island while celebrating the crew being allowed to leave; then fell off of her palace and broke his neck Nobody even noticed he died
The death of Odysseus' mother becomes more tragic depending on which version of the story you read. In some versions she "dies of a broken heart" and in others, perhaps in an attempt to make it more understandable and less flowery, she kills herself by casting herself into the ocean and drowning. The "how" of her dying isn't nearly as tragic as the "why" however, at least imo. In pretty much every version of the story, she saw Odysseus' ship get blown away by Poseidon's storm. To put that into context for Epic The Musical, Ody's Mother saw his ship get blown away in Keep Your Friends Close, and likely commited suicide some time over the course of what we know as the Circe Saga. He was literally close enough to home for his mother to see his fleet, and then she saw him and his men supposed die at sea. No hope of a proper burial, they'll be damned to the River Styx forever. So, she killed herself so she could be with her son in death. Except Ody didn't die, and still has a good chance of making it home. Which means he's likely to receive a proper burial, and not be doomed to the Styx for all eternity like she is. Now she really will be waiting forever for him. Never to reunite. She'd probably be happy just to know he actually made it home, but still. You wanna talk about a Greek Tragedy? Doesn't get much more tragic than Ody's mother.
Time for the best saga all 3 songs are AMAZING Also fun fact the Mom of Ody is the Mom of Jorge as well his mom sang those lines while he sang the Ody lines
The moment I saw you getting teary eyed during Polites' segment I knew Ody's mom would BREAK you lmao My recommendations for the Thunder Saga: - Suffering - gigi - Different Beast - Ouchen - Scylla - gigi - Mutiny - Riley G - Thunder Bringer - Neal Illustrator
The Underworld has 2 main parts. The River Styx, and the Underwold proper. Have you ever seen, in movies and what not, characters be buried with Coins over their eyes? Yeah, that's a Greek Mythology thing. In Greek Myth, you can't get to the Underworld proper by just dying, you actually need to receive a proper burial with two coins placed over your eyes, one coin for each eye. Those coins are basically the toll you need to pay to the Ferryman of the Underword, Chiron. If you pay the fee, he'll row you across the River Styx into the Underworld proper. No coins, no passage to the Underworld proper. This, essentially, makes the River Styx the closest thing Greek Myth has to the Abrahamic idea of Hell. An eternal purgatory souls of the damned are trapped in as punishment for angering or spiting the Gods. Cuz when you think about it, most of the time, the people who aren't given proper burials will be those who suffered deaths at the hand of natural disasters, or died at sea. And because the Greeks had no other way to explain such things at the time other than "the gods must be angry" it was assumed that if you died in such a way you must have upset the Gods somehow. The purgatory nature of the River Styx was likely created to serve the same purposes as things similar to it in other religions. Basically, keep people in line. "Don't do something to piss off the gods or you'll be damned to the Styx for all eternity." Something along those lines.
About the men left from underworld saga it is right posiden says 43 men left under your command but in the oddessy one of his men falls and dies after being turned back to a human by Circe so it turns to 42 left so "558 men who died under your command is right" (Edit) Jorge the creator didn't include the death of the extra man in the musical but did want to correct the mistake in the underworld saga
As someone who started listening to Epic as the underworld saga first came out.. yeah this one hits hard. Especially Anticlea (Ody's mum) being voiced by Jorge's, and the "fun" fact that in some tellings of the myth, if they'd just kept the wind bag shut he would've been able to get home to her before she died. She saw his ship get blown away from the island in the storm after the bag was opened, and thought it had killed him, so (depending on the version) she dies of a broken heart/throws herself into the sea to 'join' him. And like the soldiers he has already lost, she couldn't be given burial rites (i.e. has no coins to pay the ferryman) so she's doomed to stay in the styx, effectively locked out of her afterlife. 😭 This saga hurts but the music is so good I can't even be mad lmao.
So Ody's mom was sang by Jorge's mother , and I heard a rumor that she actually broke down while recording the song realizing the contents of the lyrics...
Oh man - watching the realisation hit of the prophet’s words of “it’s no longer you” at 26:40 was amazing and so fun to see. Also to note that the prophet can see (as Jorge has said) all of time, all of the time…. So he’s seeing things from Odysseus’ past and future here.
Animatics are fanmade... but they got so popular that many of the most known artists for Epic collaborated with Jorge on the livestreams to present the sagas. In particular the last two livestream sagas (Wisdom Saga and Vengeance Saga) were an incredible collaborative effort between the Epic team and these artists that are beloved by the Epic community. P.S. Do recommend to check those out... for as much as some songs are drawn very creatively by the artists, I think the artwork for some of the songs in those two livestreams is unreachable
If memory serves I’ve heard 2 separate stories that ended the same. 1. Anticlea, Ody’s mom, saw the ship coming in but when the storm was released by the bag, she thought her son had died so she drowned herself out of grief. 2. Anticlea didn’t see the ship coming, but she had heard if her son’s ship coming into Ort but it suddenly getting swept away and believed Odysseus was dead. So, in grief, she drowned herself.
Listen to the prophet. Also, there are details in the chorus from 14:38 to 14:50, so you might want to listen closely to what they say. We originally thought it was. From the grave, king of blood, you could be, nothing more, run through the silent halls, kill all the suitors for love. I will leave it to you to figure it out. Try it first before finding out what was said(Jorge basically told us after we were not emtirly wrong). :)
Spoilers for anyone who doesn’t know The first four are “Siren song, Scylla throat, Mutiny, Lightning bolt” Jorge confirmed after the Thunder Saga came out
I havent seen anyone mention it. But you should know that Monster is the Act 1 Finale. Its such a big song and marks a change in the musical. So the next song, Suffering, is the opening song for Act 2 So yeah. When you have questions about the songs Suffering and Different Beasts and why they are presented that way. Its because, as a musical, its the intro to the new Act
23:29 That is NOT what the Oracle told him read it again “I see your wife with a man who is haunted a man with a tail of body’s” “I see a man who makes it home alive. But it’s no longer YOU!” The Oracle did not say “oh hey your wife is going to get with another man” 26:44 ok you finally got it
The Underworld (the song) usually hits people in the feels, I swear I'm incapable of not crying at least a bit every time I listen to it. Also, your reaction to No Longer You is probably what Odysseus felt lol "tf you mean no longer me? do I reach home or not? was everything in vain?" It's the beauty of prophecies, we'll understand what the prophet means way before Odysseus I remember how divided you were in The Horse and The Infant and Just A Man (you did cry a bit here!) because you could see that Odysseus' position was just stupidly impossible but also couldn't really accept the idea of harming the baby, because just like you said here, you're a dad, you get both sides. I can see you still rooting for Odysseus going forwards but being divided about his decisions, and honestly, so is the rest of the community lol For the next saga (Thunder Saga), it might be better if you do two songs and then three songs in separate videos, the first two are continuations of each other and the last three are situations that happen back to back. So: Suffering (Gigi) x Different Beast (Ximena Natzel) in one video, then in the other Sylla (either Ximena or Gigi, both are great) x Mutiny (Crashite) x Thunder Bringer (either Duvetbox or Neal Illustrator, I honestly can't choose one lol)
Love your reactions! Excited to cry 😂 Yeah Polites being Ody's new trauma to go through, straight after remembering the infant, is so tragic 😢 Oh, and the prophet is a different singer- Mason Olshavsky
actually getting out of underworld is easy, barely an inconviniance. They will just take the front door. JOKES ASIDE DON'T GET CONFUSED AT NEXT SONG! WE DON'T SEE HOW THEY LEAVE UNDERWORLD DON'T BE LIKE "how did we get here did I miss a song"
Yes, thanks to Circe they can enter the underworld though they're alive and then get to leave. (They will have left after Monster, so by the next saga they're out in the regular world.) The singer for Tiresias is Mason Olshavsky (and Odysseus is Jorge Rivera-Herrans) so no, it's not the same singer. I commented this on an earlier video but the Greek gods aren't a monolith, they all have their own (often conflicing) agendas, so you can please one god and simultaneously piss off a different one. Like with the child, he was advised by Zeus to kill the child not because it would "please the gods" (and thus make things easier for him) but because vengeance was a Big Deal in ancient Greece. The child was the son of Hector, prince of Troy, and Odysseus was ultimately responsible for the fall of Troy. As Zeus mentions in the song, the child would be fated to grow up to take revenge (and the gods supporting Troy would help him in his quest for revenge). So killing the child would literally solve a single issue: revenge from the child. Every other problem has stemmed from other issues (the main one being that Odysseus doxxed himself with Polyphemus and they pissed off Poseidon). Also, Tiresias is actually giving him advice/help in the form of prophesy but prophesy, especially in Greek mythology, is notoriously tricksy and hard to fully understand before it happens. Yes, the you in "No longer you" can be understood in two ways: the physical you cannot make it home OR the you as you are right now cannot make it home (unless you change). Kind of the point of Monster. And The Thunder Saga next, I freaking love The Thunder Saga!
I'm not sure why Gigi or Ximena aren't verified (it might be because they don't know, I do know Gigi is from Brazil). As for the relationship between Jay and the animatic creators.. it's kind of new to them. Originally (up until the Underworld saga) the animatics were just stand alone things for the creators and they just hitched themselves to Epic, and Jay didn't copywrite claim them but did his own (funny) "live action" things with the VAs in the livestreams- basically they existed independently until he commissioned some of them to create small snippet clips for Underworld- using both creators from the Epic animatics (like Anni and Mircsy) and other known artist that didn't have anything to do with Epic. Since then Epic and the animatic community has become symbiotic with each other- each new livestream is filled with cannon animations and scenes that "live action" couldn't quite cover, while also allowing the animators to become better at their crafts (and possibly be tapped for a future animated film if needed).
When it comes to Prophets they are really not subtle the prophet basically said Odysseus will make it but he will no longer be the same meaning no longer you also if you listen closely or the see the lyrics you can see or hear the some of the ghosts or the vocals saying something those are for like the next sagas they're basically telling you what happens next
Act 2 watch recommendation: Thunder saga: - Suffering and Different beast - Scylla, Mutiny and Thunder bringer Wisdom saga: - Legendary, Little wolf and We'll be fine - Love in paradise and God games Vengeance saga: - Not sorry for loving you and Dangerous - Charybdis, Get in the water and Six Hundred Strike Last saga ? (5 songs)
For the next saga you should react to 'Suffering' & 'Different Beasts' together in one video, and to 'Scylla', 'Mutiny' & 'Thunder Bringer' together in another video.
One thing to know is that Odysseus is not in the proper Underworld in this saga. It's more like he and his crew on the fringes between world of the living and dead, where the two realms meet. Here they are able to see the spirits of those who were lost and gain the information they need without being completely trapped. As such, they are able to leave the Underworld at the end of the saga without any issues.
What I love but also get the frustration of with the prophecy is that its basically how prophecies in greek mythology are like. At times they are literal but not and most people in greek mythology dont understand the meaning of it until its been fulfilled sometimes its led to horrible events happening. So if you dont understand its okay its meant to be this confusing. But it is predicting some future events from The Thunder Saga, The Vengeance Saga and The Ithaca Saga the last saga of the musical and of course it even predicts the ending
Up until now, Odysseus has tried to follow Polites' ideal of kindness and mercy. He dropped the baby because it was foretold that the kid would grow up to kill him, his family, and destroy his kingdom. The thing about Greek myths is that prophecies are guaranteed to come to pass, even if you try to avoid them. The guilt of doing this has haunted him ever since the Troy saga, made worse by the losses of his men. He is going to become a monster by taking the kid gloves off and by being ruthless to those they come across from now on.
So it is a concept that Jorge wants to make a full musical and with the animatics he sends out like scotches of himself or props doing a thing to animators and the those animators make an animation around his references so one song from each is animated the way Jorge envisioned and then others are are just fans listening and going “oh I have an idea” and they then make their own animatic around the song
3:40 ELPENOOOOR, a poor guy got drunk (on his own if I’m not mistaken) and fall from a roof and to his death, no one notice, in the book elpenor is in the underworld and get angry at Odysseus because no one care that he died, Jorge (creator of epic) wanted a scene of him in this saga, but end up being too comical, so he was cut off. Empeño, they guy that died, nobody cared, and didn’t end up in the musical
While we all love Monster and The Underworld, I think No Longer You is the most important song in this saga. I'd suggest listening to it a couple more times or at least before you start Act 2. Cause they whole song is a prophecy, with important details to keep in mind
"When does a man become a monster?" when, no if or maybe, its a fact, a man push to his limit will become a monster. Odysseus always had the monster, but still was "just a man", now its just a monster, or at least thats how he see himself 26:57 "that man, this monster is the one that will get home". about your question about how the animatics and Jorge work. Jorge had his own live streams, i recomend seeing the vengage saga trough his live stream. this live streams at first were just like a script, the song with a pretty background and some text saying "odyseous trow a arrow to a sheep" or something like that. but now that the proyect had the posibility he had pay animators like gigi or aniflamma to do full bits of animations the way he intended. Now, the animatics you see now are the animator ideas of the song, but the ones in the livestream are the ideas of Jorge. For example anniflamma did a bit of a song for Jorge, but in her channel did the whole song and change that bit. Im rambling but the basic is animators are fans, they do this for fun but not always represent the exact thoughts of Jorge. The live streams are the ideas of Jorge but does not have the whole songs animated. Its up to you what to watch, Jorge loved the ideas of fans
Killing the baby wasn't to make things 'better' for Ody - or, well, I guess in a way it was - but because the gods foretold that the baby would grow up to kill him and his family, and the they (the gods, capricious and cruel as they can be) would make sure that would come to pass if Ody didn't finish him. Tragic, like most greek stories! Everything after the infant is just him trying to get home to his wife and son, and what it takes to get there.
So the general rule of the greek underworld is this The living can go an leave as they please if big if now , if they dont eat or drink anything from the underworld , if you do eat or drink anything there congrats your stuck there until you die .
The animatics in the first one detract from the song in my opinion, but these songs are all so amazing. My thoughts when I got to this point: Are the words of the prophet lies? Since you can’t trust anything in the underworld. Or is Odysseus going to return home a monster? Where / where I grew up we were taught a lot of these stories in school, with the Trojan horse Odysseus the Titans / Cyclopes and the sirens, but it’s been a long time and Epic doesn’t tell the story exactly the same. It’s their variation on the story. So I couldn’t say for sure what happens.
The point is that if you are a main character in Greek mythology and you get to meet even just one of the gods, it’s already over champ you are gonna get fucked over by most of Olympus and every monster in both the Aegean and Mediterranean coasts
3:41 so you are right man.the number was different it was suppose to be 547 BUT here is an ester egg. There was this character Elponor who is not that significant but who die during circe saga and was a little more prominent in the first drafts of epic but Jay had to cut it cuz it was too much but keep this easte egg in here. Also he had to have a part he sing in this song bot it was too comical and jay cut that off too Also jorge mom sing ody's mom part in the song
Killing the baby was not meant to make his life better, if he had not killed the boy, he would have grown into a vengeful man that would have taken everything from Odysseus. He was m left with the choice of sparring the child at the cost of his wife’s life, his kingdom and everything he holds dear. He needed to be ruthless, but that break him. Afterward, he tried to ignore the gods warning by showing mercy, but him sparing the cyclops (and giving his name in the same time) lead Poseidon to antagonize him, and this is when all went wrong. So now, he believes he needs to cast aside his guilt and remorse to make sure he will be willing to do what’s needed to bring home the men he has left and to see his family again. Because the only line he didn’t crossed up until now was his own. And thus, he will become the monster he used to refuse to be up until now.
The gods screwed him..? I dunno about that, Odyseuss could have avoided Poseidon if he just killed the cyclops, he could have gotten home if his crew just didnt open the bag...seems more like its his crew being his downfall. But yeah, easy to curse the gods.
I think in the Roman version, as they didn't like Odysseus, they had the posiden and some of the other gods angry at him as the fires of troy destroyed their temples.
Well the gods were angry here too, but there were differences between this and the greek too. Originally, the prophet does tell them the way but also gives them a warning that I cant talk too much about, aswell as Odyseuss staying at Circies place for about a year.
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He had 600 men at the beginning, only 43 remained after the encounter with Poseidon, which means 557 died by that point. One more named Elpenor actually died by accident after entering Circe's home but he's often forgotten, so 558 is a nod to him as well.
Jorge HAD a part for Elpenor but felt it detracted from Underworld's feel so he just... left him out but kept the death count the same.
@@kennethmorgan8795 Which is funny because the whole point of husncharacter is being forgotten haha
@@kennethmorgan8795 "I died, and nobody noticed... I died, and nobody cared..."
Fun Fact 1: The ghosts are singing their final thoughts before they die.
Fun Fact 2: The woman who played Odysseus's mother was Jorge's (the creator) mom.
Those are not so "fun" facts 😭😭😭😭
The second one is. The first… Not so much
dang you beat me to it...
"Fun" Fact 2.5: In The Odyssey our boy asks his mother for an embrace but she keeps out of reach and tells him she can't anymore because she's dead.
I don't really see why Polites last thought would be to double down on the open arms thing while they're trying to survive a murderous Cyclops after diplomacy failed
I am the monster *rawr* *rawr* *rawr* 🎹🎹
I am the monster *rawr* *rawr* *rawr* 🎹🎹
I am the Monster, I am the MONSTERRR
I am the monster *rawr* *rawr* *rawr* 🎹🎹
*👹 rawr 🤪 rawr 😼 rawr 👺*
I imagine the female version of that April Fools Version would just be UwU Speak. 😂😂😂
For the Thunder Saga I recommend:
Suffering (Gigi)
Different Beasts (Ximena Natzel)
Scylla (VirusAP or Gigi)
Mutiny (Crashite)
Thunder Bringer (Neal Illustrator) (pls this one is soooo cool)
The VA of the prophet, Teresias, is Mason Olshavsky and yes he has similar vocal tone to Jorge's. Many have mentioned the similarity of their voices and also many mistook it for Jorge's.
This is the second time I've heard somebody say this and I can't hear it? At all?? I was floored the first time I heard someone say that lmaoo
[Mild character SPOILER ahead❗- ig? but they are mentioned so often at this point it's expected that they'll show up]
I think that the people that voice Odysseus and Telemachus sound exactly the same! Like I can't head the difference at all!! The first time I head Telemachus I thought it was Ody singing until he said something about his dad 😭😭
You found the easter egg! So Ody had 600 men to start. 7 of them were killed by the Cyclops and 550 were killed (in this musical) by Poseidon. So that leaves him with 43 men alive. However the Underworld lyrics state that 558 were killed under his command, leaving one man unaccounted for. That man is Elpenor, the youngest man in Odysseus's crew, who, during the Circe's Saga, got drunk, wandered up to the roof of Circe's palace(see the end of Gigi's there are other ways animatic), and fell off of the roof and died.
Not only, as many commenters have mentioned, is the singer for Ody's mom the creator's mom - but lore wise, Ody was almost home. Ithica was literally in sight until the bag was opened and his mom /saw/ it happen. She believed the storm sank all the ships and everyone died. She was so devastated from the sight that she killed herself from the grief of seeing her son die before her eyes. So yes, he's just learning his mom has died.
17:00 How animatics work… So for the *livestream* releases of each album (different from the animatics you’ve seen), Jorge commissions partial animatics and provides reference photos, choreography mockups, and back-and-forth discussion with the animatic artists. There are narrative notes interspersed with the animatics in the livestream to communicate some of the intended staging as well.
Plus he’s shared a lot of behind the scenes notes and insight via TikTok and Patreon and Discord, and has even shared some choreography videos of certain songs (eg “There Are Other Ways”) via those platforms.
Independent animatic artists then use all of that as guidance and inspiration to make their own interpretations of the songs in these full animatics you’re watching (along with their own knowledge of Homer’s Odyssey and the non Homeric Epic Cycle and Greek myth in general, plus often sourcing character appearances from the visual appearance of the cast).
and THEN-Jorge often ends up commissioning the independent animatic artists for parts of the next livestream!
So for example, Gigi was making Epic animatics on her own for a while as a personal project/labor of love, and then Jay commissioned her for official canon livestream animatics. She still makes her own versions separately which differ from livestream canon, as well, in addition to the ones shown on the livestream. It’s always very cool to see familiar artist names pop up on the livestream.
As for the future of EPIC: Jay’s done a few videos on this. There’s nothing set in stone but he’s open to a bunch of possibilities.
My impression based on those videos is that he’s most interested in doing an animated movie of EPIC, that’s what he can most easily imagine it as.
He’s open to a stage production but says he feels like it would require fairly high tech, so he imagines it on a Cirque du Soleil stage or something.
-Personally, I think Jay just isn’t a choreographer, set designer, or stage director. He’s a composer and an actor. I think it’s VERY possible to interpret EPIC for Broadway (or off-Broadway, but you get the idea). I think you could even do it without a ton of technical effects. Biggest challenges I see will be
1. the number of sets/locations (but there are all kinds of creative staging options to work around that) and
2. the role of Odysseus, when the hell is the actor supposed to get any vocal rest before intermission??? The character has challenging demanding parts in almost every song. And sings a LOT in almost every song. You’d have to like… have 3 Odysseus actors so they could alternate showings, or something xD
Anyway, Jay’s also expressed interest in other adaptations. Live action movie, sure, but he seemed more excited about an animated film. There’s an indie video game in the works spearheaded by a fan, Liam Davidson, with permission from Jay’s company. I’m sure I’m forgetting something.
It should also be mentioned that the canonicity of the Livestream Animatics, while generally greater than those outside the Livestreams, is still fairly liquid and subject to change. These are still only concept albums at the end of the day, and things may be added/changed/taken away over time and across the various future adaptations.
Hello, Myth fact guy here !
Elpenor is one who died on Circe's island after getting drunk on the roof of her palace (after a party) and... well fell..., in the myth Odysseus and the crew was surprise to see Elpenor in the underworld, then he asked them to bury his body, so they go back to Circe's island to bury poor Elpenor...
and about Odysseus mother, she saw her son's fleet approached then taking away by the storm of the wind bag... yeah I think she died with grief.
The point is, he failed the moment he let the Cyclop live and told him his name.
In some instances, it has been said that the last people saw of her, she was walking into the ocean to join her son.
Its truly heartbreaking to me that Odysseus didn't know his mother was dead until he saw her in the underworld.
Even worse: during keep your friends close, before the bag was opened, they had gotten close enough to Ithaca that his mother saw the ships. But then the bag was opened and the ships disappeared in a freak storm. Believing her son dead, she died of grief and heartbreak. If the goddamn bag hadn't been opened, he would have gotten to see her again alive.
Also, odys mom is being voiced by jorges mom
7:19 Never fails to make me cry. Especially with my work with me being gone at sea for a while. Always tear up at this moment. First time I heard this I called my mom afterwards
Obligatory "I am the monster Rawr Rawr Rawr!!!"
13:40 the point was if he didn't his family WOULD die (by the "child") and his kingdom would burn... they never promised an easy road home.
Edit: Also... imagine going to this musical hearing Monster and then *BAM!* Intermission. The theater is either silent or so loud you can barely hear you conversation with friends.
A sad fact that makes it hit harder is that all the souls relive their last thoughts. Also, in a couple of iterations, Odyssey's mom saw them get taken by the wind bag, and it is what broke her. But great reaction, I absolutely love seeing your traumatic journey.
Also, to add to the trauma, they can't see or interact with anyone down there, so only Odyssey was able to say goodbye, and his mom is forever waiting.
13:46 the point was to avoid the specific tragedy Zeus was threatening him with, which he did. Zeus didn't promise to save him from anything else, he just wanted to see a dead baby that day.
To be fair to Zeus, he was warning Odysseus that the other gods would turn Hectors son against him. Zeus was talking about the gods who sided with Troy during the war. They wanted to get even and the prince of Troy would make for the perfect tool to enact their revenge.
@zenithstrikerz1720 I guess that's possible even if the musical doesn't make that distinction.
Super cool fun fac in minute 24:45 when penelope take the headband of odyseus (the same headband that polites was using ) the scene is trying to say "he's no longer gonna try to greet the world with open arms" (and remenber for thunder bringer watch neil ilustrator animatic the guy is incredible)
For the thunder saga i recommend
Suffering by gigi
Different Beast by Ximena Natzel
Scylla by gigi
Mutiny by Riley G
Thunder Bringer by Neal Illustrator
killing the baby wasn't to make ody's life better, it was because the baby would grow up to be a vengeful man who would stop at nothing to kill everyone and everything that ody loved
some lyrics from the first song (the horse and the infant):
This is the son of none other than Troy's very own Prince Hector
Know that he will grow from a boy to an avenger
One fueled with rage as you're consumed by age
If you don't end him now, you'll have no one left to save
I could raise him as my own (He will burn your house and throne)
Or send him far away from home (He'll find you wherever you go)
Make sure his past is never known (The gods will make him know)
I'd rather bleed for you, down on my knees for ya (He's bringing you down on your knees)
I'm begging please (*This is the will of the gods*)
and it ends with "The blood on your hands is something you won't lose. All you can choose is whose."
so there was reason behind ody's choice to kill the baby, as much as he didn't want to do it, the god's forced his hand, and we get to see a glimpse of just how far ody is willing to go to get back home to his family
Which also is kind of funny in a twisted way...since original Odyseuss had no qualms with throwing the kid off the wall
@@DevinDoingstuff the original source material didnt have Odysseus throwing the baby off a wall. That came at a later interpretation to paint him in a bad light. Namely by the Romans who claim to descend from the Trojans
@@dgrmn12345 The Romans, their Trojan relations valid or not, just despised the man. It's even technically referenced later in God Games with how Ares, the God of War whom the Romans favored over Athena, pretty much voices all the main complaints the Romans had about Odysseus. 😂
5:19 it an easter egg Jorge left in because one of the crewmats named Elpenor died on circe's island,he go drunk on a roof and fell
Like you mentioned, Odysseus' drive is to get home to see his wife and child again. That's always been his goal. Now, after "No Longer You", he's just been told that he'll never get home (well not exactly but that's what he took away from it), so how he's DESPERATE. He HAS to get home, no matter what.
Ody has his own morals and has tried to stick to them, but now he reflects on all the foes he's been up against and deemed cruel: they all did what they thought was necessary to achieve their goals and peace, even if that meant they had to be cruel. So Odysseus wonders if he must also become heartless if that's what's needed to achieve HIS goal and HIS peace.
TLDR: Odysseus freaks out because he's been "told" he'll never get home to his family, and that's simply Not An Option. So he starts wondering: If being a monster will get him home, should he choose that instead of keeping his kindness and never getting back?
Oh BTW at the headband for Polites was taken off as Odysseus is no longer going to treat the world with open arms as he is now the monster
Thunder Saga recommendations:
Gigi for Suffering
Ximena Natzel for Different Beast
Gigi for Scylla
Riley G for Mutiny
Duvetbox for Thunder Bringer
Your reactions are fabulous. (And you sound like a really dedicated and invested dad to your kids, that’s so refreshing to see. And I imagine wonderful modeling of emotional openness too, based on your reactions. We need more of that in the world.)
I love imagining EPIC as a stage play and thinking about how it would feel to sit through to the end of “Monster” and then it’s… intermission.
Because this is the end of Act I. Can you imagine the mood of the audience as everyone goes to get their restroom breaks and snacks??
558 man died... Poseidon left him with 43, but in the books, 1 of his man got dronk in Cerci's island and fell from the balcony. so... hes left with 42. thats why they say "558 men hwo died under your comand"
8:08 oh it's way worse then that. Remember the moment the crew opened the bag in Keep Your Friends Close? In the original they were literally in the viewing distance from Ithaca in that moment and she was standing on the pier seeing her son finally come home. She thought that Odysseus died when the bag opened which broke her heart and lead to her death.
Ah, another soul just like Odysseus, that didn’t understand what the prophet said. The prophet gonna prophet lol. His words are correct but not in the way you think. His words are perfectly cryptic.
Fuuuuuuc when it gets to the "waiting" in that first song it always makes me cry every single time.
Fun facts for Tiresias (the prophet)- the souls behind him are actually saying future bits in the remaining sagas.
In mythology, Athena or Hera blinded him and gave him the gift of prophecy. Judging by the music (piano), I assume they went with the Athena route, which would make sense because of how influential she is in Epic.
The choir in Monster are the souls, chanting that he is, in fact, a monster. Damned souls screaming at you. Imagine that.
(And separate animatic details from Gigi. The headband the vision of Penelope rips off is from Polites. It further signifies Odysseus losing his humanity and giving into the monster, and 21:51 … Bottom right corner of the screen).
"Losing his humanity" is taking things a bit far. His justifications to himself about becoming a monster all center around his desire to get himself and his men home. His idea of what a monster is ultimately equates to what Athena's "Warrior of the Mind" is meant to be. The Monster he already was before he was faced with the choice to kill the baby and the guilt that insued as a result. The Monster who would have gotten all 600 men he led to war back home with him alive. That's what Odysseus' Monster is. Not an inhuman man, but a human man with his priorities in tact, and a willingness to ignore his emotions in order to do whatever needs to be done in order to accomplish his goal, even if he knows he'll hate himself for it once he takes the time stop ignoring his emotions.
@@colt1903when I said “lose his humanity” I more so mean that he’s losing all of his mercy. Was trying to say it in a way that wouldn’t hint to anything in Thunder. (As we see later, Athena isn’t exactly happy with his actions. So, I don’t think his route is entirely the warrior she wanted, but that’s all I’ll say, in case he reads the replies).
@icemagiciangh What gave you the idea she wasn't happy? She seemed more surprised things went so wrong for him, but not once does she seem upset with his actions. The only thing she's ever gotten upset with him over is the argument they had which was based on the fact that he wasn't acting like himself after he killed the baby. Meaning she has no issue with him killing killing said baby or any of the heinous things he may have done before that. The only thing she has issue with was that he stopped behaving logically after he killed the baby because he was letting guilt and the like get to him.
Hell, she actively excuses all his monstrous acts later. That means she supports him. I literally have no idea where you could have gotten it that she's unhappy with his decisions.
@ i won’t get into the discussion further, as it has massive spoilers. Would you please delete your comments? They’re spoilers, and I know reactors look at comments and their responses
My friend, after months of begging, finally got me to listen/watch Epic as well and oof... it hits. Glad to know I'm not the only one to get emotional at these beautiful songs lol. I'm glad you started reacting to them as well! Such a talented cast~
Love seeing another reaction to this awesome musical!
For the animatics to the Thunder Saga I recommend:
Suffering- Gigi
Different Beasts- Ximena Natzel
Scylla- VirusAP (fr, this one is _so cool_ )
Mutiny- Riley G
Thunder Bringer- DuvetBox
I am SO glad I am not the only one who cries when we hear his mom. Odysseus's mom is voiced by the creator's (Voice of Odysseus, Jorge Rivera) real mom. Appearently, when Jorge quit pursuing higher education to make Epic, it caused a rift between him and his parents, so having her voice in one of these songs is so significant to real life as well.
Also great analysis about the words of the prophet! The lyrics can be interpreted in multiple ways, but almost all interpretations are correct in SOME way. (thanks for being so cryptic, Teresias.)
"558 men" refers to the Ghosts of his dead crew. There are 42 men left alive at this point.
Hmmm, the animatics for the Thunder saga are tough to pick. More specifically the first song. In my opinion it could be better to watch the first song - Suffering - without an animatic. At least at first. The song is kinda meant to confuse you and make you figure out what's happening and none of the existing animatics give that feeling. But if you don't want to experiance that then this is the list i recommend:
- Suffering, Gigi (video 1)
- Different Beast, Duvetbox (video 1)
- Scylla, Krieo (video 2)
- Mutiny, Riley G (video 2)
- Thunder Bringer, Duvetbox (video 3)
I’m absolutely loving these reactions, every time I listen to Underworld I get all teary eyed but this time I was straight up crying with you lol, I feel like a big ol blubbering baby.
The 558 men who died under his command are from different circumstances. 6 of the men were killed by Polyphemus (the cyclops), including Poletes. Another 551 men were killed by Poseidon during "Ruthlessness". There was one who died when they were on Circe's island, Elpenor. Elpenor got drunk and fell off the roof of Circe's home and broke his neck and died alone and forgotten (even by the musical as he's only alluded to in the 558 men who died under his command). So, when they're in the Underworld there are only 42 men left under Odysseus's command.
As for Tiresias's prophecy, the chorus actually tells you what the events are:
A song of past romance: Siren song
The sacrifice of man: Scylla's throat
Portrayals of betrayal: Mutiny
A brother's final stand: Lightning bolt
Faces of men who long believed Odysseus's dead: The suitors for Penelope
Palace painted in red: Slaughter for the sake of love
As for "a man who makes it home alive, but it's no longer you" I don't know how much to say, but those who are familiar with the story of The Odyssey will know what that's referring to. Based on the animatics for "Legendary", it does look like Jorge is going to include the bestest boy in all of literature, Argos, and if so...be prepared to be heartbroken.
"Monster" is one of my favorite songs in all of "Epic: the Musical" because it shows just how determined Odysseus is to get back home and it foreshadows how much he is willing to sacrifice in the Thunder Saga. Also, in Gigi's animatic for "Monster", did you notice Penelope taking off Poletes's headband from Odysseus's head? That implies a lot.
The number seems off because of Elpenor; he didn't die in the Cyclops attack or the Poseidon attack
He got drunk at Circe's island while celebrating the crew being allowed to leave; then fell off of her palace and broke his neck
Nobody even noticed he died
I just realised you misunderstood the number, it's 558 men
The death of Odysseus' mother becomes more tragic depending on which version of the story you read. In some versions she "dies of a broken heart" and in others, perhaps in an attempt to make it more understandable and less flowery, she kills herself by casting herself into the ocean and drowning.
The "how" of her dying isn't nearly as tragic as the "why" however, at least imo.
In pretty much every version of the story, she saw Odysseus' ship get blown away by Poseidon's storm.
To put that into context for Epic The Musical, Ody's Mother saw his ship get blown away in Keep Your Friends Close, and likely commited suicide some time over the course of what we know as the Circe Saga.
He was literally close enough to home for his mother to see his fleet, and then she saw him and his men supposed die at sea. No hope of a proper burial, they'll be damned to the River Styx forever. So, she killed herself so she could be with her son in death.
Except Ody didn't die, and still has a good chance of making it home. Which means he's likely to receive a proper burial, and not be doomed to the Styx for all eternity like she is.
Now she really will be waiting forever for him.
Never to reunite.
She'd probably be happy just to know he actually made it home, but still. You wanna talk about a Greek Tragedy? Doesn't get much more tragic than Ody's mother.
Time for the best saga all 3 songs are AMAZING
Also fun fact the Mom of Ody is the Mom of Jorge as well his mom sang those lines while he sang the Ody lines
The moment I saw you getting teary eyed during Polites' segment I knew Ody's mom would BREAK you lmao
My recommendations for the Thunder Saga:
- Suffering - gigi
- Different Beast - Ouchen
- Scylla - gigi
- Mutiny - Riley G
- Thunder Bringer - Neal Illustrator
ITS HEREEEE
THE END OF ACT 1
Get ready for a different beast now
The Underworld has 2 main parts. The River Styx, and the Underwold proper.
Have you ever seen, in movies and what not, characters be buried with Coins over their eyes? Yeah, that's a Greek Mythology thing. In Greek Myth, you can't get to the Underworld proper by just dying, you actually need to receive a proper burial with two coins placed over your eyes, one coin for each eye. Those coins are basically the toll you need to pay to the Ferryman of the Underword, Chiron. If you pay the fee, he'll row you across the River Styx into the Underworld proper. No coins, no passage to the Underworld proper.
This, essentially, makes the River Styx the closest thing Greek Myth has to the Abrahamic idea of Hell. An eternal purgatory souls of the damned are trapped in as punishment for angering or spiting the Gods. Cuz when you think about it, most of the time, the people who aren't given proper burials will be those who suffered deaths at the hand of natural disasters, or died at sea. And because the Greeks had no other way to explain such things at the time other than "the gods must be angry" it was assumed that if you died in such a way you must have upset the Gods somehow.
The purgatory nature of the River Styx was likely created to serve the same purposes as things similar to it in other religions. Basically, keep people in line. "Don't do something to piss off the gods or you'll be damned to the Styx for all eternity." Something along those lines.
About the men left from underworld saga it is right posiden says 43 men left under your command but in the oddessy one of his men falls and dies after being turned back to a human by Circe so it turns to 42 left so "558 men who died under your command is right"
(Edit) Jorge the creator didn't include the death of the extra man in the musical but did want to correct the mistake in the underworld saga
never gets old watching the devastation slowly crest over someone listening to Underworld for the first time
WHATEVER YOU DO PLEASE WATCH NEAL'S THUNDER BRINGER I'm begging youuu
Yesssss plsssss
As someone who started listening to Epic as the underworld saga first came out.. yeah this one hits hard. Especially Anticlea (Ody's mum) being voiced by Jorge's, and the "fun" fact that in some tellings of the myth, if they'd just kept the wind bag shut he would've been able to get home to her before she died. She saw his ship get blown away from the island in the storm after the bag was opened, and thought it had killed him, so (depending on the version) she dies of a broken heart/throws herself into the sea to 'join' him. And like the soldiers he has already lost, she couldn't be given burial rites (i.e. has no coins to pay the ferryman) so she's doomed to stay in the styx, effectively locked out of her afterlife. 😭 This saga hurts but the music is so good I can't even be mad lmao.
So Ody's mom was sang by Jorge's mother , and I heard a rumor that she actually broke down while recording the song realizing the contents of the lyrics...
Oh man - watching the realisation hit of the prophet’s words of “it’s no longer you” at 26:40 was amazing and so fun to see. Also to note that the prophet can see (as Jorge has said) all of time, all of the time…. So he’s seeing things from Odysseus’ past and future here.
All I’m gonna say is this probably won’t be your last time getting emotional throughout this musical! Love your reactions.
Animatics are fanmade... but they got so popular that many of the most known artists for Epic collaborated with Jorge on the livestreams to present the sagas. In particular the last two livestream sagas (Wisdom Saga and Vengeance Saga) were an incredible collaborative effort between the Epic team and these artists that are beloved by the Epic community.
P.S. Do recommend to check those out... for as much as some songs are drawn very creatively by the artists, I think the artwork for some of the songs in those two livestreams is unreachable
"Maybe that's what the prophet meant"
Nailed it.
"I thought the number was different." - Congratulations, you found the Easter Egg! Unlike Odysseus, you did not forget Elpenor.
If memory serves I’ve heard 2 separate stories that ended the same.
1. Anticlea, Ody’s mom, saw the ship coming in but when the storm was released by the bag, she thought her son had died so she drowned herself out of grief.
2. Anticlea didn’t see the ship coming, but she had heard if her son’s ship coming into Ort but it suddenly getting swept away and believed Odysseus was dead. So, in grief, she drowned herself.
Listen to the prophet. Also, there are details in the chorus from 14:38 to 14:50, so you might want to listen closely to what they say. We originally thought it was. From the grave, king of blood, you could be, nothing more, run through the silent halls, kill all the suitors for love. I will leave it to you to figure it out. Try it first before finding out what was said(Jorge basically told us after we were not emtirly wrong). :)
Spoilers for anyone who doesn’t know
The first four are “Siren song, Scylla throat, Mutiny, Lightning bolt” Jorge confirmed after the Thunder Saga came out
I havent seen anyone mention it. But you should know that Monster is the Act 1 Finale. Its such a big song and marks a change in the musical. So the next song, Suffering, is the opening song for Act 2
So yeah. When you have questions about the songs Suffering and Different Beasts and why they are presented that way. Its because, as a musical, its the intro to the new Act
dude.... IM sobbin'!
23:29 That is NOT what the Oracle told him read it again “I see your wife with a man who is haunted a man with a tail of body’s” “I see a man who makes it home alive. But it’s no longer YOU!” The Oracle did not say “oh hey your wife is going to get with another man”
26:44 ok you finally got it
The Underworld (the song) usually hits people in the feels, I swear I'm incapable of not crying at least a bit every time I listen to it. Also, your reaction to No Longer You is probably what Odysseus felt lol "tf you mean no longer me? do I reach home or not? was everything in vain?" It's the beauty of prophecies, we'll understand what the prophet means way before Odysseus
I remember how divided you were in The Horse and The Infant and Just A Man (you did cry a bit here!) because you could see that Odysseus' position was just stupidly impossible but also couldn't really accept the idea of harming the baby, because just like you said here, you're a dad, you get both sides. I can see you still rooting for Odysseus going forwards but being divided about his decisions, and honestly, so is the rest of the community lol
For the next saga (Thunder Saga), it might be better if you do two songs and then three songs in separate videos, the first two are continuations of each other and the last three are situations that happen back to back. So:
Suffering (Gigi) x Different Beast (Ximena Natzel) in one video, then in the other Sylla (either Ximena or Gigi, both are great) x Mutiny (Crashite) x Thunder Bringer (either Duvetbox or Neal Illustrator, I honestly can't choose one lol)
Aaaaah! MORE EPIC!!! Thank you so much!!!
Guys, can someone go give Luke a hug ? I think he needs one
Love your reactions! Excited to cry 😂 Yeah Polites being Ody's new trauma to go through, straight after remembering the infant, is so tragic 😢
Oh, and the prophet is a different singer- Mason Olshavsky
Thx for the reaction
Before i see the video, i know luke will cry with the "Waaaaaiiiitiiiing"
7:19 🫂nobody resist that part
actually getting out of underworld is easy, barely an inconviniance.
They will just take the front door.
JOKES ASIDE DON'T GET CONFUSED AT NEXT SONG! WE DON'T SEE HOW THEY LEAVE UNDERWORLD DON'T BE LIKE "how did we get here did I miss a song"
Yes, thanks to Circe they can enter the underworld though they're alive and then get to leave. (They will have left after Monster, so by the next saga they're out in the regular world.)
The singer for Tiresias is Mason Olshavsky (and Odysseus is Jorge Rivera-Herrans) so no, it's not the same singer.
I commented this on an earlier video but the Greek gods aren't a monolith, they all have their own (often conflicing) agendas, so you can please one god and simultaneously piss off a different one. Like with the child, he was advised by Zeus to kill the child not because it would "please the gods" (and thus make things easier for him) but because vengeance was a Big Deal in ancient Greece. The child was the son of Hector, prince of Troy, and Odysseus was ultimately responsible for the fall of Troy. As Zeus mentions in the song, the child would be fated to grow up to take revenge (and the gods supporting Troy would help him in his quest for revenge). So killing the child would literally solve a single issue: revenge from the child. Every other problem has stemmed from other issues (the main one being that Odysseus doxxed himself with Polyphemus and they pissed off Poseidon).
Also, Tiresias is actually giving him advice/help in the form of prophesy but prophesy, especially in Greek mythology, is notoriously tricksy and hard to fully understand before it happens. Yes, the you in "No longer you" can be understood in two ways: the physical you cannot make it home OR the you as you are right now cannot make it home (unless you change). Kind of the point of Monster.
And The Thunder Saga next, I freaking love The Thunder Saga!
I'm not sure why Gigi or Ximena aren't verified (it might be because they don't know, I do know Gigi is from Brazil).
As for the relationship between Jay and the animatic creators.. it's kind of new to them. Originally (up until the Underworld saga) the animatics were just stand alone things for the creators and they just hitched themselves to Epic, and Jay didn't copywrite claim them but did his own (funny) "live action" things with the VAs in the livestreams- basically they existed independently until he commissioned some of them to create small snippet clips for Underworld- using both creators from the Epic animatics (like Anni and Mircsy) and other known artist that didn't have anything to do with Epic.
Since then Epic and the animatic community has become symbiotic with each other- each new livestream is filled with cannon animations and scenes that "live action" couldn't quite cover, while also allowing the animators to become better at their crafts (and possibly be tapped for a future animated film if needed).
When it comes to Prophets they are really not subtle the prophet basically said Odysseus will make it but he will no longer be the same meaning no longer you also if you listen closely or the see the lyrics you can see or hear the some of the ghosts or the vocals saying something those are for like the next sagas they're basically telling you what happens next
Act 2 watch recommendation:
Thunder saga:
- Suffering and Different beast
- Scylla, Mutiny and Thunder bringer
Wisdom saga:
- Legendary, Little wolf and We'll be fine
- Love in paradise and God games
Vengeance saga:
- Not sorry for loving you and Dangerous
- Charybdis, Get in the water and Six Hundred Strike
Last saga ? (5 songs)
For the next saga you should react to 'Suffering' & 'Different Beasts' together in one video, and to 'Scylla', 'Mutiny' & 'Thunder Bringer' together in another video.
One thing to know is that Odysseus is not in the proper Underworld in this saga. It's more like he and his crew on the fringes between world of the living and dead, where the two realms meet. Here they are able to see the spirits of those who were lost and gain the information they need without being completely trapped. As such, they are able to leave the Underworld at the end of the saga without any issues.
What I love but also get the frustration of with the prophecy is that its basically how prophecies in greek mythology are like. At times they are literal but not and most people in greek mythology dont understand the meaning of it until its been fulfilled sometimes its led to horrible events happening. So if you dont understand its okay its meant to be this confusing. But it is predicting some future events from The Thunder Saga, The Vengeance Saga and The Ithaca Saga the last saga of the musical and of course it even predicts the ending
One guy, elpenor, died on circes Island because he got drunk and fell off the roof, breaking his neck
Up until now, Odysseus has tried to follow Polites' ideal of kindness and mercy. He dropped the baby because it was foretold that the kid would grow up to kill him, his family, and destroy his kingdom. The thing about Greek myths is that prophecies are guaranteed to come to pass, even if you try to avoid them. The guilt of doing this has haunted him ever since the Troy saga, made worse by the losses of his men. He is going to become a monster by taking the kid gloves off and by being ruthless to those they come across from now on.
Act 1 done
23:12 presumably he would be monsterous to anyone he met going forward but it wouldn't have saved him in the past except arguably with the cyclops.
Another fantastic reaction
So it is a concept that Jorge wants to make a full musical and with the animatics he sends out like scotches of himself or props doing a thing to animators and the those animators make an animation around his references so one song from each is animated the way Jorge envisioned and then others are are just fans listening and going “oh I have an idea” and they then make their own animatic around the song
the number is 1 off but it is not off because in the odyssey while on Circe's island Elinor gets drunk and falls off the rood to his death
As for the prophet...just keep in mind of the words. Aswell as not thinking too literally on "No longer you."
Hercules is such a fun Disney movie and Megara and Hades are the best parts of that movie. xD
Elpenor😟 how 🤔did this👇 happen🫢? When⏱️ did you 🫵meet 🤝your🫵 despair😢
after you catch up to the vengeance saga you should re-listen to No Longer You, you'll be like "Oh that's what that and that meant"
3:40 ELPENOOOOR, a poor guy got drunk (on his own if I’m not mistaken) and fall from a roof and to his death, no one notice, in the book elpenor is in the underworld and get angry at Odysseus because no one care that he died, Jorge (creator of epic) wanted a scene of him in this saga, but end up being too comical, so he was cut off. Empeño, they guy that died, nobody cared, and didn’t end up in the musical
Elpenor not making it to the musical is truly the most Elpenor thing to do
After a rough day at work, i really needed this to vent aswell
I'm commenting before I even watch because I've enjoyed your reactions so much. You've become one of my fave reactors!
I don’t know what this is but its peak 🔥🔥
Epic the musical is soo good.
MOREEEEEEE
The prophet, Tiresias, is sung by Mason Olshavsky
Epic in a sentence: the crew are dodos
While we all love Monster and The Underworld, I think No Longer You is the most important song in this saga.
I'd suggest listening to it a couple more times or at least before you start Act 2. Cause they whole song is a prophecy, with important details to keep in mind
"When does a man become a monster?" when, no if or maybe, its a fact, a man push to his limit will become a monster. Odysseus always had the monster, but still was "just a man", now its just a monster, or at least thats how he see himself 26:57 "that man, this monster is the one that will get home".
about your question about how the animatics and Jorge work. Jorge had his own live streams, i recomend seeing the vengage saga trough his live stream. this live streams at first were just like a script, the song with a pretty background and some text saying "odyseous trow a arrow to a sheep" or something like that. but now that the proyect had the posibility he had pay animators like gigi or aniflamma to do full bits of animations the way he intended. Now, the animatics you see now are the animator ideas of the song, but the ones in the livestream are the ideas of Jorge. For example anniflamma did a bit of a song for Jorge, but in her channel did the whole song and change that bit. Im rambling but the basic is animators are fans, they do this for fun but not always represent the exact thoughts of Jorge. The live streams are the ideas of Jorge but does not have the whole songs animated. Its up to you what to watch, Jorge loved the ideas of fans
Believe it or not, Tiresias (the prophet) isn't voiced by Jorge even though he sounds very similar. Jorge voices Odysseus, Polyphemus, and the winions
I am here yet again to suggest neal illustrators thunder bringer and god games when you reach those songs
Killing the baby wasn't to make things 'better' for Ody - or, well, I guess in a way it was - but because the gods foretold that the baby would grow up to kill him and his family, and the they (the gods, capricious and cruel as they can be) would make sure that would come to pass if Ody didn't finish him. Tragic, like most greek stories! Everything after the infant is just him trying to get home to his wife and son, and what it takes to get there.
So the general rule of the greek underworld is this
The living can go an leave as they please if big if now , if they dont eat or drink anything from the underworld , if you do eat or drink anything there congrats your stuck there until you die .
this concludes act 1
The animatics in the first one detract from the song in my opinion, but these songs are all so amazing. My thoughts when I got to this point: Are the words of the prophet lies? Since you can’t trust anything in the underworld. Or is Odysseus going to return home a monster? Where / where I grew up we were taught a lot of these stories in school, with the Trojan horse Odysseus the Titans / Cyclopes and the sirens, but it’s been a long time and Epic doesn’t tell the story exactly the same. It’s their variation on the story. So I couldn’t say for sure what happens.
The point is that if you are a main character in Greek mythology and you get to meet even just one of the gods, it’s already over champ you are gonna get fucked over by most of Olympus and every monster in both the Aegean and Mediterranean coasts
3:41 so you are right man.the number was different it was suppose to be 547 BUT here is an ester egg. There was this character Elponor who is not that significant but who die during circe saga and was a little more prominent in the first drafts of epic but Jay had to cut it cuz it was too much but keep this easte egg in here. Also he had to have a part he sing in this song bot it was too comical and jay cut that off too
Also jorge mom sing ody's mom part in the song
Killing the baby was not meant to make his life better, if he had not killed the boy, he would have grown into a vengeful man that would have taken everything from Odysseus. He was m left with the choice of sparring the child at the cost of his wife’s life, his kingdom and everything he holds dear. He needed to be ruthless, but that break him.
Afterward, he tried to ignore the gods warning by showing mercy, but him sparing the cyclops (and giving his name in the same time) lead Poseidon to antagonize him, and this is when all went wrong.
So now, he believes he needs to cast aside his guilt and remorse to make sure he will be willing to do what’s needed to bring home the men he has left and to see his family again. Because the only line he didn’t crossed up until now was his own.
And thus, he will become the monster he used to refuse to be up until now.
The gods screwed him..?
I dunno about that, Odyseuss could have avoided Poseidon if he just killed the cyclops, he could have gotten home if his crew just didnt open the bag...seems more like its his crew being his downfall. But yeah, easy to curse the gods.
I think in the Roman version, as they didn't like Odysseus, they had the posiden and some of the other gods angry at him as the fires of troy destroyed their temples.
Well the gods were angry here too, but there were differences between this and the greek too. Originally, the prophet does tell them the way but also gives them a warning that I cant talk too much about, aswell as Odyseuss staying at Circies place for about a year.
Poseidon punishes Odysseus… for sparing his son’s life? Poseidon is insane and evil and the gods are 100% to blame.