If you found this video interesting you may also be interested in learning about the big dig tunnel ceiling collapse in Boston th-cam.com/video/SxccLocBqbA/w-d-xo.html
Diane Hartley deserves recognition for spotting the error. She didn't even know the impact of her thesis until it got exposed recently. Not an engineer but I really like tall buildings history.
@@BrendanHasty she may have been lucky that the engineer she asked had guts and intellect to not dismiss her question. Still she deserves credit for asking the right question.
Another great video - I'm going to show this to grads and intern engineers to remind them that it's always ok to question senior designers, however experienced they are!
Hi ScottishAI, thanks for your support and sharing. It is something that i remind the teams I work with, always ask questions, either you will learn something or maybe you find something that was missed. It is a story for Grads and interns to learn.
A true consummate professional is not defined by the absence of mistakes, but rather he is defined by his skill and ability to minimize the impact of his mistakes by having the humility to act quickly in order to rectify them.
As a working structural engineer, this gives presence to a great concern i always have, and maybe put away in a corner way too often, the inexperience and its effect of grave mistakes. I always work on getting peer review on my work, but too often its about meeting deadlines and i feel like its not given the attention it needs. Great story and looking forward to more videos!
Thanks Ivan, glad you enjoyed it. Inexperience can be a big issue, however, experience can also cause issues as you can overlook areas that normally not critical but are an issue due to unquie circumstances.
Thank you for the video ! This story shows that we always have to question common practices for a particular project and do not always apply them mechanically. As a structural designer, I have huge empathy and respect for LeMessurier who showed a lot of courage and honnesty. Especially because he dealt with the stress and the pressure and solved his problem under these conditions.
It’s a salutary lesson in never assume something is ok and to double check your assumptions for a design. The Engineer did the right thing in owning up to his mistake, even more remarkable that an undergraduate student picked up on it and questioned the figures she was getting. As for construction design changes the Hyatt Regency sky walkways collapse was brought about by not fully understanding the seemingly innocuous but fatal design change made at the time.
Thanks Brendon. Got really intrigued by your video and looked for more of the story around the crisis and rescue. Very important lesson for every engineer to be learned. End of the story, they were able to lower their insurance premium because of their acted in the best interests of the public and all parties involved. Truly impressive!
Being in the business, my assessment is that this was handled well considering all the potential problems. Kudo's to the EOR for listening to an engineering student and take her critical comments seriously Being a Union environment likely complicated matters. Sobering but fascinating, well done presentation. Obviously, Diane Hartley should] be given proper credit. A failure in that building during a storm would have been a very deadly event. Bravo Diane!!
Hi Micheal thanks for the support. I totally agree with you alot of credit needs to go to Diane Hartley, also Le measure needs to be given praise for listening and taking actions.
Thanks Brendan for another great video. I can only imagine the emotional stress the Engineer went through. I've been through a similar situation, although on a much smaller scale. Another example on how dangerous it is to make assumptions, especially on unique structures like the Citicorp Center. Design reviews and discussing these topics are crucial! I think at the end of it all, the right actions was taken in the interest of public safety.
Thanks Theuns, agree it would have been a stressful couple of months. Everyone should be happy to get reviews engineering is a team activity. You should always ask questions, you either learn something or pick-up something that may need to be considered.
Awesome video and summary! I'd heard of this case before, but it was really nice to have an engineer's take on it in detail. Always pays to question our assumptions and potential overconfidence that comes with experience.
Hi again Aussie BIM Guru, thanks for enjoying. As professionals we shouldn't have issues with being proven wrong, it should be seen as a learning experience making us better. Sometimes the simple things can trip us up, and expertise can lead your astray.
Hi Joe, thanks for your contribution. It is great to hear citi was also quick to action as well. Must have been a tough thing to hear as the building owner.
In a nutshell the building was only designed for four wind directions? I cannot imagine what design code anywhere would permit that. In comparison with the rest of the structural modelling the specification of the wind rosette is trivial, and the analysis and postprocessing are completely automated, so it costs little to consider the full design envelope. The only reason I can ascribe to this is that computers used to be feeble and computer time (often from a bureau) was expensive. When I started as a junior engineer in the 1970s we had to economise computer usage and I guess that's what the designers did in this case. For a personal project I did a dynamic analysis of one of Singapore's tallest skyscrapers to compare with instrumented results. Out of curiosity I looked up the article published in the Structural Engineer on this project decades ago. I was astonished to see that the design model consisted of vertical beam elements, one per floor, a total of around 500 dof. My model had around 200,000 dof a ran on a PC in a couple of minutes. How times have changed.
"...and when an undergraduate engineer came to him with a problem..." he made sure to cut her loose, cancel her $10k book deal with Citicorp, and make sure she was never recognized for her part. The true standard of engineering excellence.
Some discrepancies here. Diane never spoke to LeMessurier, just the project office. Her own words here: th-cam.com/video/GISQfk6eN3E/w-d-xo.html And LeMessurier indicated that he spoke to a male student (refers to "him") and even said he called him back. His own words here: th-cam.com/video/um-7IlAdAtg/w-d-xo.html What actually happened? Given LeMessurier's integrity, it's doubtful he would slight a student, and he is quite specific about the details. Speaking with a female student would be memorable. Then with Diane, obviously she is credible. The likely explanation is that multiple students asked about the situation.
Hi Diane, Bravo to you. It is amazing that you found the flaw everyone else missed and that you stuck to your conviction. Hope you were praised and thanked for your efforts. You are a role model everyone should aim for.
Great job Brendan. It is ok and essential to ask questions to your seniors, through which i am learning a lot. Also it would be really helpful if you could do a video on structural detailing . Something like starting a small design may be a slab from modelling to end detailing . I will not mind even if the content is a bit long. Good day mate.
Hi Deepak everyone should always ask questions, worst case you learn something best case you pick something up. This will be something I will work on maybe endup being a series.
I'm really enjoying the content, it very informative. Please give more information on structural engineering that students should know while they are pursuing in this field.
Hi Md Islam, thanks for watching. I can will more videos focusing on this, unsure if you have watched but on I do have two videos around this topic th-cam.com/video/mNfdJUnHumk/w-d-xo.html and th-cam.com/video/uNu_kJskm44/w-d-xo.html Also let me know if you have any specific topics you want me to cover.
It's seems common sense that there are guaranteed to be more injuries and causalities caused in a disaster when the public aren't notified. Failing to notify the public should be a criminal offence.
Hello! Can you make a video where you make some quick calculations about why the stress on the building was higher when the wind blowed from the corners?, I can not fully see it in my mind and I am really interested in learning this case. Greetings!
Great video Brendan! I've been really enjoying the series of structural history videos that you've made in the past month or so. Can you recommend any books or references on the history of structures/structural design for a technical audience - kind of encompassing the ideas you present in your videos? I'd love to learn more about case studies, stories, and lore behind some of the great structures we see today with an emphasis on design solutions and implemented structural systems. Cheers from Canada!
Hi ba sick, thanks for watching and I will be making new video around structural history. Also thanks for the suggestion for future videos. As for books there is a link in the description to Structures: Or Why Things Don't Fall Down and Why Buildings Fall Down: How Structures Fail, both are enjoyable to read. G'day from Australia.
It seems that the mistake was hubris from the beginning. Only one corner was required to build the church. The central pillars, where needed on two faces, the other 3 corners could have been conventional construction. He should definitely be praised for taking action. He would have known this was going to hurt him, and it reveals he was a well adjusted individual in that doing the right thing happened. We don't praise people enough for doing the right things. Taking a personal hit to protect others from our errors is a sign of good character, and should be rewarded. However, if there is a lesson to be learnt for engineering; check your ego at the door; unless there is no other way, do what is proven to work. There were 7 other towers taller than this one, and that should have been the practical evidence to follow their lead. If there is something to criticise, then it should also be that there was a far safer, quicker and better solution; secure the 3 corners which could have been secured, even after construction. It's only another example of hubris that this wasn't the solution.
Hi. Thank you for putting this together. I must say though, that the audio is rather muddy and "bassey" and not crisp enough for me to understand your words. I'm not used to hearing somebody with an accent such as yours, so good audio is even more critical. Sure, I could rewind and replay it as often as needed to make sure I understand the words being spoken, but I actually came here because the length of this one was only half compared to the first video I found on this topic, and I really wanted to save myself some time and still gain understanding of the engineering principles being presented. Playing this video multiple times would cost me more time than watching the first one all the way through one time. Thank you for your effort, though!
Thank you. You have the most detailed and easy to understand explanations of this building retrofit. However i found your accent difficult to understand and had to listen 3 times going back and forth. Could you add cc to your videos please?
I'm Italian. I visited new york twice. I am passionate about modern architecture. City corp is one of the most incredible skyscrapers in the city. The columns on which it was built are truly impressive. To this day I also like Stainway tower. An incredibly unique residential skyscraper!
Nice video. I have a question. I'm an EIT starting in 2022 and enjoy structural engineering but I've noticed more demand for hydrology focused EITs. How can I stand out to the few Structural Engineering firms?
Hi Anthony, Thanks for the support. Getting your first position is your most challenging. You may need to look at a broader range of options from small to Large. Also, tailor your CV for each company and study up when you get your interview.
I doubt the building would have collapsed as the wind would never hit directly due to the congestion of buildings around it. also there is a 20% factor of safety in structural materials. Also there are redundant load paths thru the building.
Hi Design Studio, they wind tunnel tested it and typically the surrounding buildings would be modelled. But agree there may have been redundant load paths that may have stabilise the building.
@@BrendanHasty Except it didn't happen at Champlain Tower>>>>>What do you think the cause of that collapse was? The answer lies between Soils, Rotted patio slab collapsing caused moment and torque on 3 shared columns with the building, Car hitting column in garage, roof anchor installation.
@@BrendanHasty - No, I know.... I was just kidding. But how come in talks (MIT @ 1996) LeMessurier says the student who called him with the question about the diagonal wind loads on the Citicorp building was a male student, yet everyone else says it was a female student?
This one has weird audio level rises in the middle of it in various places. This is a typical human failure, unlike the other one with the walk ways in the hotel which was gross incompetence by the fabrication engineer and negligence by the entire design and construction team. This one doesn't make me angry. The only question I have is: Did the firm hire Dianne? :-D If not, what happened to her? I'd hire her.
Hi Fredio, I agree on the Audio; after this video, I did a lot of studies, picked up Accusonus Audio plugins. I started some voice training as well, still a long way to go, I never realised how much I mumble until I started making videos. She did get hired by Le measure; she moved into more strategic planning and has her own company now.
Engineers make mistakes. Happens all the time. Most of them are not that of these magnitude but it happens. He did the right thing in my opinion by just telling them as it is. My question would be: Did these extra wind loads, which were not calculated in the design, had an impact on foundation?
Hi Dashoti, thanks for watching. I didn't find any information around the footings, however, with all the strengthen work undertaken, I would guess that footings worked even with the increased loads. footing is typically not governed by strength but are a long term settlement design, and as lateral actions are short term you typically have a higher capacity in the footings for these actions
great explanation. Just found this story today and I'm binging everything on YT and the internet in general about it. Found this: th-cam.com/video/um-7IlAdAtg/w-d-xo.html which is LeMessuier himself telling the story. I'm curious though....why in your video do you show so many buildings other than the citicorp buildling?
If you found this video interesting you may also be interested in learning about the big dig tunnel ceiling collapse in Boston th-cam.com/video/SxccLocBqbA/w-d-xo.html
This is probably the best video on this topic, no wasted words, just facts.
Diane Hartley deserves recognition for spotting the error. She didn't even know the impact of her thesis until it got exposed recently. Not an engineer but I really like tall buildings history.
Hi Elle, thanks for watching. I agree Diane needs recognition and praise for her contribution. Glad that you enjoyed the video.
@@BrendanHasty she may have been lucky that the engineer she asked had guts and intellect to not dismiss her question. Still she deserves credit for asking the right question.
Another great video - I'm going to show this to grads and intern engineers to remind them that it's always ok to question senior designers, however experienced they are!
Hi ScottishAI, thanks for your support and sharing. It is something that i remind the teams I work with, always ask questions, either you will learn something or maybe you find something that was missed. It is a story for Grads and interns to learn.
A true consummate professional is not defined by the absence of mistakes, but rather he is defined by his skill and ability to minimize the impact of his mistakes by having the humility to act quickly in order to rectify them.
As a working structural engineer, this gives presence to a great concern i always have, and maybe put away in a corner way too often, the inexperience and its effect of grave mistakes. I always work on getting peer review on my work, but too often its about meeting deadlines and i feel like its not given the attention it needs. Great story and looking forward to more videos!
Thanks Ivan, glad you enjoyed it. Inexperience can be a big issue, however, experience can also cause issues as you can overlook areas that normally not critical but are an issue due to unquie circumstances.
@@BrendanHasty Thanks for commenting. Looking forward to more content! Great channel!
Thank you for the video ! This story shows that we always have to question common practices for a particular project and do not always apply them mechanically.
As a structural designer, I have huge empathy and respect for LeMessurier who showed a lot of courage and honnesty. Especially because he dealt with the stress and the pressure and solved his problem under these conditions.
Hi Hadrien, thanks for watching. Also agree that how LeMrssurier behaved after should be what we aim for as engineers.
It’s a salutary lesson in never assume something is ok and to double check your assumptions for a design. The Engineer did the right thing in owning up to his mistake, even more remarkable that an undergraduate student picked up on it and questioned the figures she was getting.
As for construction design changes the Hyatt Regency sky walkways collapse was brought about by not fully understanding the seemingly innocuous but fatal design change made at the time.
Thanks Brendon. Got really intrigued by your video and looked for more of the story around the crisis and rescue. Very important lesson for every engineer to be learned. End of the story, they were able to lower their insurance premium because of their acted in the best interests of the public and all parties involved. Truly impressive!
Being in the business, my assessment is that this was handled well considering all the potential problems. Kudo's to the EOR for listening to an engineering student and take her critical comments seriously Being a Union environment likely complicated matters. Sobering but fascinating, well done presentation. Obviously, Diane Hartley should] be given proper credit. A failure in that building during a storm would have been a very deadly event. Bravo Diane!!
Hi Micheal thanks for the support. I totally agree with you alot of credit needs to go to Diane Hartley, also Le measure needs to be given praise for listening and taking actions.
Thanks Brendan for another great video. I can only imagine the emotional stress the Engineer went through. I've been through a similar situation, although on a much smaller scale. Another example on how dangerous it is to make assumptions, especially on unique structures like the Citicorp Center. Design reviews and discussing these topics are crucial! I think at the end of it all, the right actions was taken in the interest of public safety.
Thanks Theuns, agree it would have been a stressful couple of months. Everyone should be happy to get reviews engineering is a team activity. You should always ask questions, you either learn something or pick-up something that may need to be considered.
Awesome video and summary!
I'd heard of this case before, but it was really nice to have an engineer's take on it in detail. Always pays to question our assumptions and potential overconfidence that comes with experience.
Hi again Aussie BIM Guru, thanks for enjoying. As professionals we shouldn't have issues with being proven wrong, it should be seen as a learning experience making us better. Sometimes the simple things can trip us up, and expertise can lead your astray.
Thank you so much for sharing the wonderful story with me!!👍
Glad that you enjoyed the video Annie.
It was the support and quick action by Citi heads Walter Wriston and John Reed that pushed things through...I met John Reed in 87, good guy
Hi Joe, thanks for your contribution. It is great to hear citi was also quick to action as well. Must have been a tough thing to hear as the building owner.
In a nutshell the building was only designed for four wind directions? I cannot imagine what design code anywhere would permit that. In comparison with the rest of the structural modelling the specification of the wind rosette is trivial, and the analysis and postprocessing are completely automated, so it costs little to consider the full design envelope.
The only reason I can ascribe to this is that computers used to be feeble and computer time (often from a bureau) was expensive. When I started as a junior engineer in the 1970s we had to economise computer usage and I guess that's what the designers did in this case.
For a personal project I did a dynamic analysis of one of Singapore's tallest skyscrapers to compare with instrumented results. Out of curiosity I looked up the article published in the Structural Engineer on this project decades ago. I was astonished to see that the design model consisted of vertical beam elements, one per floor, a total of around 500 dof. My model had around 200,000 dof a ran on a PC in a couple of minutes. How times have changed.
"...and when an undergraduate engineer came to him with a problem..." he made sure to cut her loose, cancel her $10k book deal with Citicorp, and make sure she was never recognized for her part.
The true standard of engineering excellence.
Some discrepancies here.
Diane never spoke to LeMessurier, just the project office. Her own words here:
th-cam.com/video/GISQfk6eN3E/w-d-xo.html
And LeMessurier indicated that he spoke to a male student (refers to "him") and even said he called him back. His own words here:
th-cam.com/video/um-7IlAdAtg/w-d-xo.html
What actually happened? Given LeMessurier's integrity, it's doubtful he would slight a student, and he is quite specific about the details. Speaking with a female student would be memorable. Then with Diane, obviously she is credible. The likely explanation is that multiple students asked about the situation.
See LeMessurier tell the story himself: th-cam.com/video/um-7IlAdAtg/w-d-xo.html
What’s the deal with the variable audio?
Bravo!
Hi Diane, Bravo to you. It is amazing that you found the flaw everyone else missed and that you stuck to your conviction. Hope you were praised and thanked for your efforts. You are a role model everyone should aim for.
Great job Brendan. It is ok and essential to ask questions to your seniors, through which i am learning a lot. Also it would be really helpful if you could do a video on structural detailing . Something like starting a small design may be a slab from modelling to end detailing . I will not mind even if the content is a bit long. Good day mate.
Hi Deepak everyone should always ask questions, worst case you learn something best case you pick something up. This will be something I will work on maybe endup being a series.
saahi hai bhai . yaha toh sab tau ji hai kisi ko koi fark padta hi nhi
Fun fact, there was a recent study that they studied this building again and found out that he actually didn’t mess up.
Thanks for the update interested in seeing the link to the study.
I'm really enjoying the content, it very informative. Please give more information on structural engineering that students should know while they are pursuing in this field.
Hi Md Islam, thanks for watching. I can will more videos focusing on this, unsure if you have watched but on I do have two videos around this topic th-cam.com/video/mNfdJUnHumk/w-d-xo.html and th-cam.com/video/uNu_kJskm44/w-d-xo.html Also let me know if you have any specific topics you want me to cover.
@@BrendanHasty Thank you.
Would have been great Brendan if you included illustrations to assist you in your presentation particularly the cantilever section.
Hi Cayrick, thanks for the suggestion. I have been trying to incorporate more illustrations in my videos. will work on adding more
I'm enjoying the channel, keep up to good work. Can you do a video on classification of building frames as sway or non sway.
Hi Madramootoo, thanks for watching. I can do a quick facts video on building frames. any other suggestions let me know.
It's seems common sense that there are guaranteed to be more injuries and causalities caused in a disaster when the public aren't notified. Failing to notify the public should be a criminal offence.
Hello!
Can you make a video where you make some quick calculations about why the stress on the building was higher when the wind blowed from the corners?, I can not fully see it in my mind and I am really interested in learning this case.
Greetings!
Great video Brendan! I've been really enjoying the series of structural history videos that you've made in the past month or so. Can you recommend any books or references on the history of structures/structural design for a technical audience - kind of encompassing the ideas you present in your videos? I'd love to learn more about case studies, stories, and lore behind some of the great structures we see today with an emphasis on design solutions and implemented structural systems. Cheers from Canada!
Hi ba sick, thanks for watching and I will be making new video around structural history. Also thanks for the suggestion for future videos. As for books there is a link in the description to Structures: Or Why Things Don't Fall Down and Why Buildings Fall Down: How Structures Fail, both are enjoyable to read. G'day from Australia.
It seems that the mistake was hubris from the beginning. Only one corner was required to build the church. The central pillars, where needed on two faces, the other 3 corners could have been conventional construction.
He should definitely be praised for taking action. He would have known this was going to hurt him, and it reveals he was a well adjusted individual in that doing the right thing happened. We don't praise people enough for doing the right things. Taking a personal hit to protect others from our errors is a sign of good character, and should be rewarded.
However, if there is a lesson to be learnt for engineering; check your ego at the door; unless there is no other way, do what is proven to work. There were 7 other towers taller than this one, and that should have been the practical evidence to follow their lead.
If there is something to criticise, then it should also be that there was a far safer, quicker and better solution; secure the 3 corners which could have been secured, even after construction. It's only another example of hubris that this wasn't the solution.
Hi. Thank you for putting this together. I must say though, that the audio is rather muddy and "bassey" and not crisp enough for me to understand your words. I'm not used to hearing somebody with an accent such as yours, so good audio is even more critical. Sure, I could rewind and replay it as often as needed to make sure I understand the words being spoken, but I actually came here because the length of this one was only half compared to the first video I found on this topic, and I really wanted to save myself some time and still gain understanding of the engineering principles being presented. Playing this video multiple times would cost me more time than watching the first one all the way through one time. Thank you for your effort, though!
Hi just ask, thanks for the suggestion on improvement. My newer videos should have better audio.
@@BrendanHasty Thank you sir, and I wish you the best of luck. I'm always looking for things to learn!
Thank you. You have the most detailed and easy to understand explanations of this building retrofit.
However i found your accent difficult to understand and had to listen 3 times going back and forth. Could you add cc to your videos please?
Hi Himsendol, Automatic CC should be there let me check this, thanks for letting me know.
I'm Italian. I visited new york twice. I am passionate about modern architecture. City corp is one of the most incredible skyscrapers in the city. The columns on which it was built are truly impressive. To this day I also like Stainway tower. An incredibly unique residential skyscraper!
Nice video. I have a question. I'm an EIT starting in 2022 and enjoy structural engineering but I've noticed more demand for hydrology focused EITs. How can I stand out to the few Structural Engineering firms?
Hi Anthony, Thanks for the support. Getting your first position is your most challenging. You may need to look at a broader range of options from small to Large. Also, tailor your CV for each company and study up when you get your interview.
I doubt the building would have collapsed as the wind would never hit directly due to the congestion of buildings around it. also there is a 20% factor of safety in structural materials. Also there are redundant load paths thru the building.
Hi Design Studio, they wind tunnel tested it and typically the surrounding buildings would be modelled. But agree there may have been redundant load paths that may have stabilise the building.
@@BrendanHasty Except it didn't happen at Champlain Tower>>>>>What do you think the cause of that collapse was? The answer lies between Soils, Rotted patio slab collapsing caused moment and torque on 3 shared columns with the building, Car hitting column in garage, roof anchor installation.
Say... did William LeMessurier happen to be the structural engineer of record of the Champlain Towers in Surfside?
Hi Boinic he didn't, the engineering firm who design the Surfside apartments is available in publicly accessible records.
@@BrendanHasty - No, I know.... I was just kidding. But how come in talks (MIT @ 1996) LeMessurier says the student who called him with the question about the diagonal wind loads on the Citicorp building was a male student, yet everyone else says it was a female student?
This one has weird audio level rises in the middle of it in various places. This is a typical human failure, unlike the other one with the walk ways in the hotel which was gross incompetence by the fabrication engineer and negligence by the entire design and construction team. This one doesn't make me angry. The only question I have is: Did the firm hire Dianne? :-D If not, what happened to her? I'd hire her.
Hi Fredio, I agree on the Audio; after this video, I did a lot of studies, picked up Accusonus Audio plugins. I started some voice training as well, still a long way to go, I never realised how much I mumble until I started making videos. She did get hired by Le measure; she moved into more strategic planning and has her own company now.
@@BrendanHasty Perfect! :-)
What happened to the graduate student?
Scroll down the comments below, I think she commented on this video!
Engineers make mistakes. Happens all the time. Most of them are not that of these magnitude but it happens. He did the right thing in my opinion by just telling them as it is. My question would be: Did these extra wind loads, which were not calculated in the design, had an impact on foundation?
Hi Dashoti, thanks for watching. I didn't find any information around the footings, however, with all the strengthen work undertaken, I would guess that footings worked even with the increased loads. footing is typically not governed by strength but are a long term settlement design, and as lateral actions are short term you typically have a higher capacity in the footings for these actions
great explanation. Just found this story today and I'm binging everything on YT and the internet in general about it. Found this: th-cam.com/video/um-7IlAdAtg/w-d-xo.html which is LeMessuier himself telling the story. I'm curious though....why in your video do you show so many buildings other than the citicorp buildling?
Hi Rick, most of the over videos should have had Citicorp in the shot. It was some additional broll maybe there was a jumpcut to hide.
classic
Thanks Andrew