Replacing the clutch on my 650 T120R Bonnie c/w real live blooper, mind you it was 1oclock in the morning I got it put right the next day and it works a treat :-)
The Triumph way freehand clutch hub assembly in situ! Bravo! Never tried it that way and with the key from stator slipping out placing basket and engine sprocket on together makes this a good idea. Nice vid it will help many,
Lunmad, You are absolutely the BEST. When I watched you make a cardboard gasket that sealed the deal. Please don't stop making these vids. I have learned much, Thank you.
Thank you for your no nonsense advice after a hot summers riding l have suffered sized carb low comp lost timing possible burnt valve but that is after 10years of good riding so plenty to do this winter have now dropped back to riding my t100ss. What a lovely little bike happy days John orchard
Hi John :-) you are welcome, it seems quite a lot to go wrong all at once. The seized carb could be down to the manifold nuts being tightened wrong of over tight try slackening them off equally and see if the carb snaps shut, the low comp could be a tight tappet. A valve grind never goes a miss though. Happy riding stay safe.
I noticed it as you did it. The suspense as to when you would notice it just kept building... Hardening the end of the pushrod was a neat trick. I've never seen that done before.
Ahahaha! That was awesome! Cant say I totally know that frustration, never done a job quite that intense with the rollers and all btut have forgotten something way to far into the reassembly game! Great vid!
Hi Lunmad, I have just replaced the clutch on my BSA B33 (alternator) with Triumpnh 4 Spring, found your vid really helpfull, especially making tool to do cush rubbers. Cheers Andy
Hello Lunmad my friend, last I heard the road was rocky. I hope it has smoothed out somewhat. My clutch was crap for 7 years after a lot of differing advice! I attacked it fully as you did and kept it simple and now it is great with standard parts. Not sure where you are at at this stage, but you have helped many people get the pleasure they should have out of their "old pommy shitbox" Forever indebted Bill Stoyel
What a fantastic video.! Talk about a "picture paints a thousand words" I've bought a BSA C15f recently (nostalgia bit me, had one when I was sixteen in the IOM) and the dragging clutch and clunking gears led me to search TH-cam for a solution. Loved the ending though.... sort of thing I'd do... brilliant. Keep making the videos mate cos they really help newbies like me. Pete.
Take caution to ensure that the altenator. Mounting stud nuts are tight, on Tri,, Nort & BSA. If they come loose, the stator will touch the rotor and you'll get a nice surprise. Always check them even when doing non related clutch or pri. chain work. On the all metal Norton clutch, clean them good along with entire prim. drive area, and when you put it back together, use 2-stroke oil, non synthetic, and the performance will surprise you. Also sand them with 80-100 grit, and a dual action sdr.
I also have gotten the Norton hyd. chain tensioner to work properly by careful cleaning out the entire clutch case, sealing the little scupper plate on to the tensioner body, and install a fine piece of metal screen in the catch area in the top of the tensioner body. This will keep any garbage out of the check valve and allow it to work properly. Assemble a wet clutch wet in the same oil you would use during operation. Old bonded plates will collect oil by products such as "asphaltine", and is
Hi Lunmad, ONce you tightened the basket up there was a bit of play... how much play is "normal" for the clutch basket once all is back together? Cheers
I still can't believe how long I missed them for lol and that was edited!! Heating the push rod makes the carbon in the steel go to the hot spot, and quenching makes it stay there giving a hardened end. You can also quench in old engine oil.
Hi Tr6Bobber, thank you. It sounds to me like the mainshaft is moving. Check the nut on the other end under the gear box cover. The only other thing I would think of would be a loose clutch hub.
the main reason for them sticking together. Stuck from age ? Fill case with auto. trans fluid, and let sit for a couple days. Rock the bike , while holding the clutch lever in, and see if you can break them loose. This will greatly aid in disassembly. Where did I learn this stuff ? Working for Sid Biberman , of Vincent fame, for 17 years, and riding these bikes everyday for about 30 years.
hey thanks for the vid. i'm going to be putting together a T120 engine in the comin days and this is good stuff. could you put the hub/basket/rollers together on a bench and then install it all at once so its easier to get the rollers set up?
I usually grease up the clutch centre and fit the rollers . . . . then fit the clutch basket. This works as long as you leave enough play on primary chain. Saves fiddling around fitting the rollers separately.
Hi oxy :-) I've not tried that way but sounds good to me, you might knock the odd one out but it would be easy to replace the way I showed here is a bit fiddly but saves removing the alternator and engine sprocket to fit all as a unit.
You've just got to be gentle when locating the clutch basket but its got to be a lot less hassle than taking all the alternator and rotor off. Enjoy your videos. . . especially the end when you forgot to fit the 3 clutch bolts...Done the same myself lol . . . .
Hey Lunmad, I have the clutch apart here and the bike arrived without the blocking plug and the primary adjuster is not even in diagram Clymers manual. Not surprising for Clymers but is the plug the adjuster or is it allen cap in the threaded hole?
@drackett19 Hi drackett yes you can assemble the clutch at the bench, but you have to then remove the alternator and engine sprocket to get the chain on. If you do it this way make sure the rotor has clearance from the stator when you reassemble.
Question I have 72 750 Triumph...which clutch was stuck....I freed and cleaned the steel plates...it worked fine...then I rode the bike for about 30 min, which was the longest and hottest the bike sat over night and then next morning the clutch was stuck again.So i have a new clutch coming from notherneagle.ca My question is....1) was the old clutch just done and need to be replaced? 2) with the new clutch coming....should I soak over nt in oil....just install dry? Thanks....super helpful vid
Hi mate, asking some advice. Trying to get the clutch basket off my 69 T120. Got the centre nut off ok, but the washer behind seems well stuck in and can't seem to shift it. No room round it to get anything in to lever it out, just doesn't want to move.Soaked it in WD40, any ideas?
Hi Mervyn :-) that washer can be a pain when stuck, if you use a sharp punch you can try and get it to turn plenty of tapping and squirting, once you get it of use plenty of grease when you replace it. I hope this helps, sorry for the late reply
Hi Mr Sandpit :-) yes the parts catalogues are wrong. there is a recess cut i the hub to take the thrust washer, if the thrust washer went on the inside there is nothing to hold it central. Also it is not the only thing wrong in the manuals.
@441rider Hi 441rider :-) fitting the rollers is a bit of hassle but saves disturbing the alternator and the air gap round it. You can always file taper on the front bit of the stator key, it will help locate it.
have an original 76 tri bonneville with 1128 original miles..driven a few times...but now on trying to kick start there is heavy resistance like its grabbing something on kicking down without any crank movement..remove spark plugs and the crank moves freely...put plugs in and problem re-occurs....sometimes it does start without that nagging problem...checked clutch cable at both ends and is OK....my 71 bonnie with 15000 miles never gives me that problem..HELP in my 70's and want to drive it more b4 l cannot kick or too old to drive MC and cars
Hi Carl :-) I answered this in your other comment on "Starting my Bonnie vid" so here is a copy. "it sounds to me like your clutch is slipping, slacken the cable then adjust the clutch push rod then re-adjust cable. If it still does it strip the clutch and clean up the plates. Scuff up the plain plates on a concrete floor and clean the friction plates with petrol then not quite boil them in a large container of a strong floor cleaner and water solution dry off and reassemble clutch." It definitely sounds like clutch slip to me, I hope I'm still riding when I'm 70 though I'm nearly there 61 tomorrow! It might be time to lower the compression either head gasket or pistons, to give your kick start leg an easier life! Do you do your own mechanics?
Hi Robert :-) it's always fun even if stuff goes wrong though maybe not at the time :-D As A solvent I will use petrol or paraffin (kerosene) If I want a grease free solvent I use acetone (nail varnish remover) keep away from most plastics. As A tight nut I do it tight two grunts will do it, according to the book it is 70 lbs.ft hope this helps.
Can you post a video of what your battery set up looks like? I'am having a hard time hooking up the battery to my 71 trophy, keep blowing fuses, im only 15 and me and my dad arent the best motorcylce mechanics.
ayup, i assume the free play in your clutch sprocket is nothing to worry about. I have just put my 500's clutch together and I have the same free play.. got me worried. Thanks for the vids, very helpful
@441rider Hi 441 you have a plug missing, the primary chain adjuster lives behind the plug (you are missing) the adjuster has a screwdriver slot, for adjusting the primary chain (I'm just off to look at your vid great stuff)
@Wizbang2u Hi Wizbang my stator wires are fairly close to the chain but there is no contact but there is a slight contact mark on the small oil feed pipe. Ah yes them stud :-D gutted to say the least lol turned out ok though.
what's cause of clutch side filling up with oil from engine??? is there a seal somewhere and can it replaced without complete engine disassembly. GOING nuts after cylinder re-bore,valve work,clutch renewed,..$$ for many new parts,painted tanks,fenders(i.e reno)...your reply would be greatly appreciated for my 71 Bonnie(corsa@hotmail.ca)
The Triumph way freehand clutch hub assembly in situ! Bravo! Never tried it that way and with the key from stator slipping out placing basket and engine sprocket on together makes this a good idea. Nice vid it will help many,
The ending made me laugh 😃
Hi Lunmad! Thanks for putting this up It was very helpful to me having a go at my T140 clutch for the first time.
Lunmad, You are absolutely the BEST. When I watched you make a cardboard gasket that sealed the deal. Please don't stop making these vids. I have learned much, Thank you.
Hi Van Mann thank you, I have covered most stuff on my bike now but there are still a few in the pipe line.
Great! I love watching, and learning.
Thank you for your no nonsense advice after a hot summers riding l have suffered sized carb low comp lost timing possible burnt valve but that is after 10years of good riding so plenty to do this winter have now dropped back to riding my t100ss. What a lovely little bike happy days John orchard
Hi John :-) you are welcome, it seems quite a lot to go wrong all at once. The seized carb could be down to the manifold nuts being tightened wrong of over tight try slackening them off equally and see if the carb snaps shut, the low comp could be a tight tappet. A valve grind never goes a miss though. Happy riding stay safe.
I noticed it as you did it. The suspense as to when you would notice it just kept building...
Hardening the end of the pushrod was a neat trick. I've never seen that done before.
Ahahaha! That was awesome! Cant say I totally know that frustration, never done a job quite that intense with the rollers and all btut have forgotten something way to far into the reassembly game! Great vid!
Hi Lunmad, I have just replaced the clutch on my BSA B33 (alternator) with Triumpnh 4 Spring, found your vid really helpfull, especially making tool to do cush rubbers.
Cheers Andy
Hello Lunmad my friend, last I heard the road was rocky. I hope it has smoothed out somewhat.
My clutch was crap for 7 years after a lot of differing advice! I attacked it fully as you did and kept it simple and now it is great with standard parts.
Not sure where you are at at this stage, but you have helped many people get the pleasure they should have out of their "old pommy shitbox"
Forever indebted
Bill Stoyel
What a fantastic video.! Talk about a "picture paints a thousand words" I've bought a BSA C15f recently (nostalgia bit me, had one when I was sixteen in the IOM) and the dragging clutch and clunking gears led me to search TH-cam for a solution. Loved the ending though.... sort of thing I'd do... brilliant. Keep making the videos mate cos they really help newbies like me.
Pete.
Take caution to ensure that the altenator. Mounting stud nuts are tight, on Tri,, Nort & BSA. If they come loose, the stator will touch the rotor and you'll get a nice surprise. Always check them even when doing non related clutch or pri. chain work. On the all metal Norton clutch, clean them good along with entire prim. drive area, and when you put it back together, use 2-stroke oil, non synthetic, and the performance will surprise you. Also sand them with 80-100 grit, and a dual action sdr.
I also have gotten the Norton hyd. chain tensioner to work properly by careful cleaning out the entire clutch case, sealing the little scupper plate on to the tensioner body, and install a fine piece of metal screen in the catch area in the top of the tensioner body. This will keep any garbage out of the check valve and allow it to work properly. Assemble a wet clutch wet in the same oil you would use during operation. Old bonded plates will collect oil by products such as "asphaltine", and is
You are so right blackturbans,
If you want "max" adhesion from Loctite both surfaces need to be clean and grease free.
Cheers Lumad, very informative it's helped me a lot. Dave.(I will remember to replace the studs!)
Hi Dave :-) thanks aye it's always best to remember the studs, what a trick I still cannot believe I did it, but there ya go things happen. :-D
I watch this video from time to time it's hilarious.
Even the best can forget a step!! Love your videos.
Hi Lunmad,
ONce you tightened the basket up there was a bit of play... how much play is "normal" for the clutch basket once all is back together?
Cheers
I still can't believe how long I missed them for lol and that was edited!!
Heating the push rod makes the carbon in the steel go to the hot spot, and quenching makes it stay there giving a hardened end.
You can also quench in old engine oil.
RIP Lunmad.
Great man, we've all been there, ha ha.
Hi Tr6Bobber, thank you. It sounds to me like the mainshaft is moving. Check the nut on the other end under the gear box cover. The only other thing I would think of would be a loose clutch hub.
Your recent vedio I have seen the clutch is drive by spur gears but in this vedio there is a chain laying on drive pully. What is the best
You think it is always necessary to take the clutch basket out and clean and re grease the roller bearings when replacing the friction plates ?
the main reason for them sticking together. Stuck from age ? Fill case with auto. trans fluid, and let sit for a couple days. Rock the bike , while holding the clutch lever in, and see if you can break them loose. This will greatly aid in disassembly. Where did I learn this stuff ? Working for Sid Biberman , of Vincent fame, for 17 years, and riding these bikes everyday for about 30 years.
@G58
Hi G58 :-)
"they" say, he who ain't made a mistake ain't done nowt :-D
all good fun to look back on but not at the time!
hey thanks for the vid. i'm going to be putting together a T120 engine in the comin days and this is good stuff. could you put the hub/basket/rollers together on a bench and then install it all at once so its easier to get the rollers set up?
I usually grease up the clutch centre and fit the rollers . . . . then fit the clutch basket. This works as long as you leave enough play on primary chain. Saves fiddling around fitting the rollers separately.
Hi oxy :-)
I've not tried that way but sounds good to me, you might knock the odd one out but it would be easy to replace the way I showed here is a bit fiddly but saves removing the alternator and engine sprocket to fit all as a unit.
You've just got to be gentle when locating the clutch basket but its got to be a lot less hassle than taking all the alternator and rotor off. Enjoy your videos. . . especially the end when you forgot to fit the 3 clutch bolts...Done the same myself lol . . . .
Hi oxy :-)
I know where you're coming from, was I miffed when I saw I'd left them studs out! I went to bed as it was around one in the morning :-D
Hey Lunmad, I have the clutch apart here and the bike arrived without the blocking plug and the primary adjuster is not even in diagram Clymers manual. Not surprising for Clymers but is the plug the adjuster or is it allen cap in the threaded hole?
@drackett19
Hi drackett yes you can assemble the clutch at the bench,
but you have to then remove the alternator and engine sprocket to get the chain on.
If you do it this way make sure the rotor has clearance from the stator when you reassemble.
Very nice vid. What did you do with the nagged clutch hub? Sand it down or replace it completely?
@mfppro
Hi thank you!
for the old plates try boiling them for 1/2 an hour get them grease free.
The clutch plates should be assembled dry
@onetwothreecheese
I had to replace both the hub and the centre as they where both well past their sell by date
Brilliant!
Hi Spoketalk :-) thank you.
Question I have 72 750 Triumph...which clutch was stuck....I freed and cleaned the steel plates...it worked fine...then I rode the bike for about 30 min, which was the longest and hottest the bike sat over night and then next morning the clutch was stuck again.So i have a new clutch coming from notherneagle.ca
My question is....1) was the old clutch just done and need to be replaced?
2) with the new clutch coming....should I soak over nt in oil....just install dry?
Thanks....super helpful vid
Hi mate, asking some advice. Trying to get the clutch basket off my 69 T120. Got the centre nut off ok, but the washer behind seems well stuck in and can't seem to shift it. No room round it to get anything in to lever it out, just doesn't want to move.Soaked it in WD40, any ideas?
Hi Mervyn :-) that washer can be a pain when stuck, if you use a sharp punch you can try and get it to turn plenty of tapping and squirting, once you get it of use plenty of grease when you replace it.
I hope this helps, sorry for the late reply
Tell me, are the parts catalogs wrong because they all state the thrust washer goes in after the bearings, not before?
Hi Mr Sandpit :-) yes the parts catalogues are wrong. there is a recess cut i the hub to take the thrust washer, if the thrust washer went on the inside there is nothing to hold it central.
Also it is not the only thing wrong in the manuals.
@441rider
Hi 441rider :-)
fitting the rollers is a bit of hassle but saves disturbing the alternator and the air gap round it.
You can always file taper on the front bit of the stator key, it will help locate it.
have an original 76 tri bonneville with 1128 original miles..driven a few times...but now on trying to kick start there is heavy resistance like its grabbing something on kicking down without any crank movement..remove spark plugs and the crank moves freely...put plugs in and problem re-occurs....sometimes it does start without that nagging problem...checked clutch cable at both ends and is OK....my 71 bonnie with 15000 miles never gives me that problem..HELP in my 70's and want to drive it more b4 l cannot kick or too old to drive MC and cars
Hi Carl :-) I answered this in your other comment on "Starting my Bonnie vid" so here is a copy.
"it sounds to me like your clutch is slipping, slacken the cable then adjust the clutch push rod then re-adjust cable. If it still does it strip the clutch and clean up the plates. Scuff up the plain plates on a concrete floor and clean the friction plates with petrol then not quite boil them in a large container of a strong floor cleaner and water solution dry off and reassemble clutch."
It definitely sounds like clutch slip to me, I hope I'm still riding when I'm 70 though I'm nearly there 61 tomorrow!
It might be time to lower the compression either head gasket or pistons, to give your kick start leg an easier life!
Do you do your own mechanics?
you are only human... just like us all buddy !
Hi Paul :-) how right you are, these things happen oh well practice makes perfect!
seen your vid several times
"THE FUN STARTS", Took me 2hrs.
What do you use for solvent?
Torque on the clutch nut?
i went to 50 ft lbs.
Hi Robert :-) it's always fun even if stuff goes wrong though maybe not at the time :-D
As A solvent I will use petrol or paraffin (kerosene)
If I want a grease free solvent I use acetone (nail varnish remover) keep away from most plastics.
As A tight nut I do it tight two grunts will do it, according to the book it is 70 lbs.ft
hope this helps.
Hi gearbear88 :-)
It was late though! "well that's my excuse I'm sticking to it" :-D
Can you post a video of what your battery set up looks like? I'am having a hard time hooking up the battery to my 71 trophy, keep blowing fuses, im only 15 and me and my dad arent the best motorcylce mechanics.
ayup, i assume the free play in your clutch sprocket is nothing to worry about. I have just put my 500's clutch together and I have the same free play.. got me worried.
Thanks for the vids, very helpful
@441rider
Hi 441 you have a plug missing,
the primary chain adjuster lives behind the plug (you are missing)
the adjuster has a screwdriver slot, for adjusting the primary chain
(I'm just off to look at your vid great stuff)
@Wizbang2u
Hi Wizbang my stator wires are fairly close to the chain but there is no contact but there is a slight contact mark on the small oil feed pipe.
Ah yes them stud :-D gutted to say the least lol turned out ok though.
fitting my b31 clutch today , did exactly the same thing , not the only dull old bastard in the country then lol
Hi Mikey :-) where you as gutted as I was, it was going great till that point!!
A late Thank you Andy.
@gearbear88
Hi gearbear88 :-)
It was late though! "well that's my excuse I'm sticking to it" :-D
@MightyBuilder that paint ball in the face really upset you eh!!
what's cause of clutch side filling up with oil from engine??? is there a seal somewhere and can it replaced without complete engine disassembly.
GOING nuts after cylinder re-bore,valve work,clutch renewed,..$$ for many new parts,painted tanks,fenders(i.e reno)...your reply would be greatly appreciated for my 71 Bonnie(corsa@hotmail.ca)
locktite and gresse ..... that works well
Grease is even worse, '-D
Ha ha. I forgot to do exactly the same thing, & used exactly the same expression,
Hi Michael :-) sometime only one expression will do :-D
Ah haha ha ha..... : ) ....shit...!
cornflakes .... just love oil lol
Hi Mr Sprocket :-) that's why they are packet in gasket type cardboard!