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Hobby Questions ANSWERED! | S4E16
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ส.ค. 2024
- On this weeks episode of Trapped Under Plastic, Scott and Jon take questions from out patrons. They both give their opinions, advice, and wisdom into parts of the hobby.
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On patreon, we offer our patron's the ability to submit topics for us to discuss during a podcast, you get an extended version of the podcast, and you can submit miniatures for us to critique during an episode!
Relevant Links
Ninjon Video:
• I Bet I Can Make You a...
Kirill Kanaev Raiver Bust:
liberdaemonica.com/tproduct/1...
Marvel Crisis Protocol Earth's Mightiest Core Set 2023:
spikeybits.com/2023/08/marvel...
Monument Hobbies Signature Series Ben Komets:
monumenthobbies.com/collectio...
Monument Hobbies Signature Series Matt Cexwish:
monumenthobbies.com/collectio...
Some Like It Hot Paint Set:
ca.creaturecaster.com/en-us/p...
Mantic Games Reveals Warpath:
www.manticgames.com/news/warp...
Wizards Used A.I. Art in a D&D Book:
/ ai_art_in_the_new_bigb...
www.washingtonpost.com/busine...
GW Delays Legions Imperialis:
www.warhammer-community.com/2...
spikeybits.com/2023/07/games-...
Drakar och Demoner / Dragonbane:
www.kickstarter.com/projects/...
freeleaguepublishing.com/en/g...
Shayna Baszler Won WWE Summer Slam while wearing a Black Legion Top:
spikeybits.com/2023/08/shayna...
• Ronda Rousey vs. Shayn...
Darren Latham Instagram:
darrenlatha...
00:00 Start
01:07 Preamble Ramble
29:59 What We Painted
01:03:25 Topic Discussion
01:54:39 News
In this episode Jon reveals his sociopathic tendencies in gaming
Honestly they're pretty shitty tendencies. Everything he tried to justify was really just being intentionally misleading about rules to win.
I guess if you want to lie/mislead someone at a tournament go ahead, but if you're playing with a friend it's an asshole move.
Yeah it’s a pretty big no no. Especially with casual games. Like even not mentioning something a unit can do is bad form because it leads to gotcha moments. Actively bluffing an opponent and misleading some one about what a unit can do is a sure fire way of quickly running out of local opponents.
Ya if I found my opponent was play like this I'd just let him have the win and move on to a new match. tourney or not, its just not worth it to interact with people wanting to use social pressures to get the W.
It didnt really seem like jon was advocating not saying the rules or what a unit can do, bearing in mind part of the game is telling your opponent what each unit is. Jons merely saying part of the tactics of his game is a psychological push towards making the opponent play the game jon wants to play by downplaying or upselling the perceived importance of certain moves, this is a simple bait and switch used the world over and legit in wargames and tcg's doesnt sound underhand especially if you know your own army list and your opponents list (which i always recommend checking over before the game begins)
@@green_manc " psychological push" 🙄
Jon: "I'm not trying to manipulate anyone"
Also Jon: *Immediately describes how to manipulate your opponent*
Hey Scott! Pro tip about headswapping 3d printed models: you can use microsoft 3d builder (free program) to do things like digitally remove the head of the model and place on the head you want. I recommend using the subtract function once with a sphere to take off the general original head you don't want, and then subtracting again with the head that you want to replace it with so you have a perfect indent for the head to fit on. It's super easy and doesn't take hours like Blender would.
Also, congrats on having your first painted army!
Best tip the episode for me is to not wait until your “better” at painting before trying it. I used to buy a great looking model that had maybe fur or something I hadn’t done yet and thought “I don’t want to ruin this one. I’ll wait until I know I’ll be ok at painting it”. Now I paint what excites me most even if it’s something brand new to me. Only adds to my knowledge and skills.
38:00 The TH-camr Fauxhammer recently partnered with a company to make a Resin for war gaming called Wargamer. They're only accepting orders to the UK right now, but it might be one to watch out for in the future.
MCP did do that. They're different sculpts, end different cards. They also introduced an extra character, as well as grunts. They also added a bunch of terrain and updated cards
Millions of minis. Minis for me. Millions of minis. Minis for... lots of money goddammit.
Minis come on a sprue, they were put there by some dude, in a factory down town....
A bunch of companies have tried to make a perfect tabletop gaming resin and have come up against the same unfortunate issue: Generally, you give up durability for detail, and vice-versa. The harder a resin is when cured, the better it retains detail. But it also becomes more brittle. It's very difficult to make one bar go up without lowering the other.
Interesting side note on 3D printing - Reaper Miniatures is currently producing some figures at their USA factory via high throughput industrial 3d printers. The detail, quality and durability is insane. Check out any figure that is an "RMPrint" or "Printed" figure. Confusingly some of thier bones USA line is siocast and some is 3d printed.
Lol, ninjon that's deceptive. I just ignore it when someone starts it at a tourney, and I'm pretty new to this.
Scott, for your Vampire halberdiers.
Go with Brass rods.
Brass rods start as small as 1 mm diameter in size.
It is an old trick back from lead / metal mini days as the metal use to bend. Brass is cheap, easy to get a hold of and has a whole lot more durability then any resin on the market.
The other option is to use piano wire, but that is much tougher to work with.
We use to use both brass and/or piano wire for halberdiers and spearmen back in the day when metal miniatures were all that were sold in the market.
That's an interesting idea
Re: resin, you mix Siraya Tech Tenacious (either black or "clear") with something like Elegoo 8K and you eyeball it. Could not be any simpler. I have printed... thousands of models now in my club. The results are fantastic, details are great, and the models are really flexible. I haven't done a resin tune since the first go and eyeballing the measurements have been perfectly fine.
Here is an idea for shipping models. Harbor freight has the off brand plano boxes for much cheaper. The small version is only 12.99. It would hold good size or multiple small ones. that would protect them a lot for shipping inside of a shipping box.
Learning to use meshmixer to digitally remove things like heads from models has been hugely empowering. Don't have to worry about physically chopping up a model and ruining it. Would recommend trying it out.
Jon has taken "we have the same enemy but not the same goal "to another level, I would love to play a game of Diplomacy with him.
Great now I can actually get some work done while I listen to this awesome podcast.
Can’t wait to see those vampire halberders painted. I love Last Sword’s undead, and their elves, and their humans 😂
For Scott’s drazhar model… If you want to make video content from it, why not have the beginning of the video explaining the process of how you got to where you’re at, and then maybe spin off into the importance of persistence in our projects, why coming back to projects, can be good, etc, and then keep trucking on the model! I would love to see that!
Regarding Dune models: Skullforge Studios did quite a lot of fantastic sculpts inspired by the aesthetics in the newest movie! Definitely worth checking out 😁
this was so awesome! more of this!
[30:42] That texture you got is awesome!!! We [the people] could REALLY use a texture master class - the best I've come up with is using Alclad lacquer primer/microfiller to create a black leather texture by brushing on the alclad rather than spraying; say goodnight to whatever brush you used tho!
Watching Tested and Adam Savage setting up his 3D print farm has been interesting
Hi Jon Scott, how can I turn on adverts ? Don't have enough pennies patreon but more than happy to watch ads between watching and listening to you guys while I'm painting. I'm on an old android device, keep up the good work guys on here and your individual channels I'm a subscriber to all three of you😜🤟
I don't play AoS (more of a 40k guy personally), but I gotta say that the podcast is more entertaining when both hosts are actively enjoying the game that's tangentially related to their content. I'm very happy for y'all!
Jon, do you have some kind of agitator/mixing ball in those Scale75 bottles?
Jon, I love your deals. playing MTG. You are my spirit animal.
Great stuff friends 👏 👍
Good episode. I definitely can relate to finding what you like/relate to as a child, but I always related to the wimpy good boy heroes so I chose T'au when I jumped into 40k.
1:08:35 would you say this is akin to keeping your shoulders loose to increase your stick speed on a drum kit?
The new mcp core box is different versions of the same characters not just a repose
Keep the magic talk going, as a player i love hearing the commander politicking its such a fun aspect of the game
She did in fact totally confuse all the passing pihranas! 🤘🤘
Guys! 3d printing have to move to DLP, I have a 2K DLP (Elegoo Mars 3 DLP) I've had 3 previous LCD resin printers and I have to tell you... the easiness of use of a DLP outright destroys LCD and the crispiness of edges helps a TON.
If DLP keeps going up on resolution I think it's a no-brainer (also all of what you said to make it easier, temp controled vat, easy leveling, auto failure detection etc...)
I've recently shipped Nagash, and oh boy was I stressed!
Great podcast!
Regarding resin mixes, my workhorse resin is SirayaTech Fast - Navy Grey which is pretty durable by SLA resin standards. SirayaTech Tenacious is their flex/durable resin and I've found that the 1L bottles of Fast resin have enough space for roughly 200mL of liquid, which means you have a near effortless 80/20 mix of Fast to Tenacious resin. Just have the shake the hell out of it before using it, but it's such a pleasure to work with!
That's more like 84/16
The Presidents of America reference. Finally some evidence of actual culture in MN.
Luftmencsh Studios has some pretty dope Warcraft models, though I think you have to get them printed 3rd party.
Jons tricking around depends on the opponent. If he is new or learning, then it's a bad move and not inclusive. You want them the get into the game fast and win by beeing better at strategy. The poker like element is fine against established players. Against my common opponents i think i do the same.
Mantics Warpath is an interesting one, as it's a different scale to NEpic (I believe 12mm to Legion's 8mm?) So I wondered if Mantic were consulting the community to see if we want them to match the scale after all. It would make for more proxies and terrain, so it's not a terrible idea.
Please add to your next IN THE NEWS portion am update on Broken Anvil Miniatures with their KS and company in trouble. Since you were sponsored by them, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the current status and if you still encourage people to buy from them.
As to Jon's strategy for mind gaming during any competive play... Is there any other way to do it?
I do the same thing John. That is one of my favorite things to do when I played magic the gathering
What how have I only just found this channel
I've been using Siraya Tech Fast navy grey abs-like resin for almost 5 years now and I have a Saturn 2
On Scott's point about Instagram Reels comments: Super mega hard agree! I'm not really even shown divisive content that I imagine people would be arguing over (politics, religion, etc.), but no matter what kind of video it is with IG Reels I can guarantee there will be someone in the comments pissing and moaning about something related to the video. It does not matter the circumstance, there will be people standing up on their soap box making an argument that is demonstrably stupid. Followed by 20 other people arguing back against that person. It makes Reels super unbearable in that way. So Scott man, I hear you, I see you, you're not crazy.
"I don;t care about price" ... "but it's insanely expensive" hah
Great listen while I pack up my hobby area in prep for new floors (basement flood)…
Hope everything is dried out and fixed up!
@@AVspectre Everything is repaired and put back together!
Yeh 3d printing is great when it just works. Sometimes it just doesn't work... I've been using anycubic tough resin and when it prints properly the prints are flexible and durable, its pretty much perfect for minis.... but geez its hard to get it to just print properly.
Jon, I'm the same way with commander. My buds get so pissed when I talk my way into winning haha
Scott, the new Anycubic M5 has auto-leveling. The future is now!
Jon playing psyops when gaming. LOL
Great MTG content! More MTG from Jon
Thanks for highlighting the new Marvel Crisis Protocol core starter box! Your information isn't quite correct though. All of the sculpts in the box are brand new and all the characters those sculpts represent are also all new. It's just that many of them appeared before. (For example, the new core box has a Red Skull model, but his abilities are not the same as the previous two versions of Red Skull that came out. All 3 models have unique rules.)
Question for a potential discussion (well 2 but they are related). This is for used minis and not busts or display pieces.
When painting how much of an impact does the gloss or matte of a paint factor in to your decisions? Do you not care since you will varnish? And I have seen y’all use pigments on gaming minis, how do you keep them from rubbing off and does their planned usage change how you approach the painting and/or varnishing?
You first set pigment with e.g. thinner then varnish while mini and forget about it
I had Jon's scale 75 paint problem with ProAcryl washes. They come out of the pot like gloopy oil. Not sure what caused it, but bad batch is most likely the culprit.
Any idea what vampire models Scott is printing?? 36:44
Yep! They’re from Last Sword. I love their stuff.
i will hold onto a single land some times with mana open to make people think i have a counter spell board wipe or combat trick in hand. learned it from day9tv.
I would love Jon in a narrative battle, which are the only games I'd play
1:49:43 - My brother in law has receipe for his 3D resin prints, they actually survive falling off tables.
I feel like 3d printing is a lot like like pc building it’s actually a very simple hobby not complicated at all you just rly know where to look and buy when it comes to practice.
Ahh the beauty of Mathhammer.
Who else thought 'youtube shorts' were the special trousers John graces us with?
Jon, I would play a game with you anyday... I would love love love to plant thoughts in your mind!
Lump sat alone in a buggy marsh, totally emotionless except for her heart
Such a minor thing but The Ballad of Peter Pumpkin head was XTC.
Came here for this as well..lol.
@@Del_Scorchosame. XTC is awesome and should be acknowledged for their greatness. Love PUSA too though.
I bet the guy who emailed you about spirituality and gaming understands you've got a life you're living and would be happy to hear from you if/when it works for you. I mean, he probably lives in Northfield or something and can drop most things for a meeting if/when you'd be interested. Thanks for the fun podcast!
it was you wasnt it
@@SilverSeleucidway to out me. I almost had them.
37:51 "...I dont care about price, I don't care about print time.
And I found one, BUT ITS 90 DOLLARS A LITER!"
Uh, clearly price is back on the table. lol.
My friend and I played MTG for years and I almost always won. As in, it took my being majorly land-screwed for me to lose. At one point he blamed the decks, so we swapped decks and...I still won all the time. Strategy and skill matters.
Gundam models do increase in value when they are out of production. Price are dictated by scalpers though.
Also LEGO investing is pretty popular right now.
Monty Hall math problem: another way of visualizing the proper solution is to consider 100 doors in the game (instead of three). You pick one, Monty eliminates 98 incorrect doors (because he always eliminates the incorrect doors). There's now two left: your pick and one other. What are the chances you picked the correct one in the first place? Hence the reason why you switch.
I used to T.A. a Statistics class, if you'd like a lecture on the Monty Haul problem
The podcast that's brush lickin' good
Scott- For Drazhar, if you wanted to finish it for some reason besides Golden Daemon (another painting competition or just for your own army), why not make that part of the narrative? "Revisiting a model after X time". Explain what happened in the video- where it is now IS the starting point. I think a lot of people start projects and don't finish- might be a good way to inspire viewers to get back to their old projects.
Not a bad idea :)
Jon, if you want some Castlevania models you should check out a modeler named Schlossbauer. He has sculpted a couple dozen monsters from various games
So glad you guys added that the numbers dont tell the whole story, for example, crime goes up with ice cream sales. The causality is the temperature but the stats tell a bit of a lie. Same with current 40k, the stats dont balance because we have the weight of 9th behind it, and the rules change has meant that a psychology shift has changed the way we play armies in the meta. Death guard is still kicking ass, the world best is still going 5-0 or 4-1 so is the stats wrong or is something else going on?
I'd argue that GW stuff actually goes up in value unless you wait a super long time. In which case it depends on the figure. Is it a better investment than other things? Probably not, but I wouldn't feel terrible about picking up figures you like and might want to paint at some point.
Siraya tech fast navy grey. Best resin for minis Ive found. 0 failures in 2 years on mini sonic 8k
meta gaming /social engineering - absolutely its a fundamental principle in winning any game of 3 people not to be the target of the other two until you have won. Adding or subtracting players makes no real difference other than its more or less players Its just easiest to recognize with 3 players. Most recently if i think im the odd man out ill pick the better player and tell the table that i like that person im going to help them win. Most often aggressive table talk will cause you to loose example: "if you attack me ill retaliate." keeping your mouth shut when things are going your way is probably a good idea.
Everything Scott said about Wood Elves make me wonder why he still didn't try Malifaux. Selfish 'we mind our own business, fu$&&# others ' is literally every faction in the game :D
Jon is going to get banned from life if he brings that AOS strategy to the table in comp
I play totally different than Jon. If someone isnt aware of how scary one unit is or isnt i point that out. For me as a player i dont know every single rule of every army and and a lote of people doesnt either. I dont like to trick or be tricked into make a horrible decision because we dont have time to study 20+ army books
Scott, what about a glowing hand with osl?
"You know a lot of Magic players are anti-social assholes" 🔥🔥🔥
I enjoy the negotiation aspect of games and also introduce similar play... including the mind games. If it was good enough for Wellington, it's good enough for me.
2:45 - you get 16.666% better odds of winning a price by switching doors.
God damnit Scott is a baby!!!
if you are playing a game in anything but the most friendly of situations, and you believe anything your opponent says, your deserve what you get.
If you are not talking to your opponent, you might be war-gaming wrong. Not in Jon's sociopaths manner, but in a more, we are both people playing with their toys way. With this manner of playing, I have had very few bad tournament experiences.
God Scott is so young
Man, Jon's bm af when he plays games. I love it.
Can you guys comment on the fact that you took money from scammers and promoted their products? Speaking about Broken Anvil Miniatures.
It's funny that originally Scott was the painter and Jon was the businessman...
With time, Jon has grown into such a good painter and Scott, I think, fits better the businessman/entrepreneur in the hobby scene...
Plastic sat alone on dusty shelf,
Totally ignored except for the guns,
It's bashed,
It's bashed,
It's kitbashed again
Oh Scott, you're missing out one some great music, my friend.
In a war game, personally I'd rather play the game without people trying to low key affect my decisions, I have a hard time making them in game as is lol, you're prolly winning anyway, no need for head games 😂 d&d an such? Go for it, mind games all day.
Manipulation is always part of the game.
Agree, Instagram has the most toxic comment people. They get offended/butthurt/outraged over most minor shit. Like a society vomiting the worst of it out.
I guess some of these people are just playing into this stereotype and farming likes/reactions but most of them are serious.
What Jon is doing is actually more nefarious than tricking his opponents. He’s causing them to trick themselves, which is much more satisfying. There’s nothing better than playing head games with people (as long as it’s good natured and not against the spirit of fair play).
yes my day is complete back to bed. video game comment sections are always the worst.
Lol Cody, your children will send all your models, painted and unpainted alike, to goodwill in a moldy cardboard box when you die.
That Monty Hall theory is bollocks.
Removing the duff prize does increase the chance of the non-chosen door being the good one, to 50%.
But it increases the chance of your chosen door, AS WELL.
They are both still 50:50.
So why switch?