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Haha i appreciate the sense of humour during these dark times. Would probably smell better and be healthier that's for sure! Cheers for the laughs. Nick
That would very interesting if you could speak with a doctor on a future video, where he would explain the impact on the lungs, what to do, will the lungs auto-heal, etc. I opened my DreamStation to see the damages, and there is about 3 x 1 x 1 inches of foam missing... which means a lot of that crap is inside my lungs. When I touched a piece of foam under the fan, it's like tar, it's not solid as soon as you touch it. It's disgusting. I'll try to have an x-ray to assess the damages, but that would be great to hear a doctor on your channel to provide more information about the impacts on health (for people who have a big quantity of that foam inside their lungs) and what to do. I now use a Fisher & Paykel SleepStyle CPAP machine since last week, but I've been inhaling that stuff since 2018.
Pew took the foam out of my DS1 this evening, the foam was sticky and gross as you said.. I have a So Clean that I have used some. I stopped using it because it caused a terrible odor coming from my system after a cleaning cycle. With hindsight I imagine that it was the foam deteriorating. I realized that the So Clean affected foam the first time I put my headgear in the cleaner. The foam headgear became more elastic and stretched out of shape much quicker. I stopped putting the headgear in the machine. Very dismayed by the way Phillips has handled this foam situation. Nick, thank you for your information.
Hey mate, yeah i'm not sure what they were thinking with that design! It's pretty bad. I don't know how well it will last also. The materials used seem pretty cheap to me but i guess when you're giving out 500 million of them your probably going to make it as cheap as you can. Best wishes. Nick
Yeah that's very bad! Philips themselves stop taking new orders when they released the 'health warning' a few months ago but they obviously didn't try and stop their retail customers from selling the stock they already had. Really they should have recalled that stock at the time of the warning. Just another mistake from this terrible company. Nick
Whoa!! I just got this machine in the mail so thanks for this. You are so right!! Unforgivable and I don't think I want to use any of their crap. What you said is spot on, people use CPAPs to improve their health not the opposite. Phillips should be out of the CPAP game for this completely.
Isn’t it the ozone cleaners that destroyed the foam? Seems like Phillips CPAP systems have been around for years with no problems until the ozone cleaners hit the market.
Do we trust the medical industry after the jab debacle? Not me. They sent me back a DS1 and a DS2. I removed the foam from the DS1, now I’m going to remove the foam from the DS2. I haven’t gotten a headache from my DS1 since I removed the foam.
My face is still RED after 5 Day. They said in a web interview that all PROBLEMS would disapate in 24hours. I know now why I have had NOSE AND CHEST AND EYE PROBLEMS. DreamStation User from 2017.
I believe this is the end of Respironics, I don't think they will recover, nobody will want their product. If they fix my System one and my wifes dreamstation I don't want them and I won't sell them to some poor soul who has no idea of what has happened. In the bin they will go, How expensive is this going to be for people who can't afford new cpaps. Unforgivable. Nick love your work keep us all posted on info. And to the rest of the group remember you are not alone in this, we are in this together. Cheers Mick.
Hey Mick, Respironics ended a long time ago when Philips took them over and destroyed another great company. Also appreciate the kind words and great work supporting your fellow pappers :-). Your mate, Nicko
You have a good point, but sadly, most people are not well informed and they will listen to what their clinic will told them. If they tell people that the DreamStation 2 is a good machine and Philips is a well established and a reliable company, people will trust them and they will purchase millions of DS2. The best thing that could happen is that all CPAP equipment vendors would stop to sell Respironics machines. That would hurt Philips. Otherwise, they will have a small drop in their next financial report, and in one year everything will go back to normal and they will continue to sell their crap to people. They could even make more profit, as the DS2 is clearly not the same quality as the DS1 (except the foam), which means the profit margin is probably much higher. I highly doubt that all clinics and online vendors will stop selling Respironics machines. They will listen to Philips representatives BS, and everything will go back to normal. In a couple of years, maybe there will be a peak of people having lung cancer, and nobody will connect that situation to the fact that people were inhaling toxic stuff for years. Only a minority of people who are watching TH-cam channels like this one will make informed decisions, so I doubt it will really impact Philips. Sadly...
I will NEVER buy a Philips product again, I will join the class action, I want to see them pay for what they did,. They knew for months if not years that this foam was unsafe
@@CPAPReviews Hi Nick, I had a google search and can only find Class actions in the U.S, couldn't find any being started by anyone here in Australia, any chance you or anyone reading this has seen one, or are we able to put our names down on U.S ones?
I went to Philips Head office in North Ryde to ask them to remove the foam from the DS1 without a recall, I just want the foam removed and no replacement. They said NO this is not the process they are undertaking, so I would have to wait until they set up their pop up hubs! I think this recall will take months.... in the mean time a lot of people who are unaware of the issues are suffering!!!
Yes i Agree. We dont know the damage caused by philips to customer because of that cheap foam. Now Im not even sure if my S10 device safe 100 %. Maybe 3 years from now, another medic fact will be shown that my s10 also dangerous for health. 😑😑😑
Unbelievable ! I'd never want the airflow go through that white foam in DS 2 and reach my lungs. I mean look how easily it breaks. What if it starts degrading in a couple of years and the particles end up my in lungs ? No way! This is unacceptable !
I was very very surprised and the DS2 foam and how brittle it is! Especially with all the DS1 foam problems with degradation. It looked to me like even a strong pressure would suck off bits of the white DS2 foam. I have big concerns about the longevity of it. Cheers
Hi Carlos, sorry to hear that brother. I know a lot of people have been buying the ResMed AirSense 10 machines which are Philips main competitor. It's a quality unit however soon to be replaced by the AirSense 11 later this year. F&P also make a good machine called the SleepStyle.
I was recently diagnosed, and my insurance and DME set me up with a Resmed Airsense 10. First impressions from using it the past week, is that it seems to be a unit of quality. Of course, I don't have a Dreamstation to compare it to.
Are there any videos that show how to open up the dreamstation machines from A to Z to remove the foam? I've seen vids on how to remove the foam from it's chamber, but I could use a complete tutorial on getting the unit open etc. Thanks for your vids mate!!
I have been using a DS1 for about 4 years and have been in and out of doctors for at least 2 years to find out the cause of my throbbing headaches, nausea, as well as lung issues. I went through all kinds of tests and my doctors were starting to think I was an hypochondriac. I stopped using the machine since the recall was announced and I'm still having almost constant headaches and nausea.
Nick, Thank you very, very much for keeping us informed! Your leadership is the best thing that our community has going for us. My question (relative to the US audience), is where the heck is the Food and Drug Administration/ FDA in this giant mess? Why aren’t they compelling Phillips to manage this more effectively OR take over the process?
So they replace with more foam. What do ones do that can't breathe? How do we get compensated? The first night I used my machine, I had a piece of black plastic chip of some kind in my mouth the next morning.
I don't understand how they think the foam should be in the air path. I removed the foam from my DS1 and other than maybe the slightest change to the sound but not any louder, it's the same as usual under normal operation.
The difference in sound from foam vs. no foam will likely depend on how much air you inhale and how fast you do it. For most people it probably won't make any significant difference, but for an unlucky few they might end up with a resonance in that chamber that makes it a lot more annoying than before.
@@400_billion_suns Yeah, I could see certain conditions causing a higher db level, but a well designed intake chamber along with better blower control logic should be able to keep things to a minimal. Maybe that wasn't cost effective or technologically possible at the time the DS1 was designed.
Thanks for this video comparing the Dreamstation 1 w/the new Dreamstation 2!!! I just received my NEW replacement Dreamstations 2 yesterday (Sep 21, 2022...). I had to stop using my old Dreamstation 2 after it started shedding black particles of foam from the sound isolation cavity... It was horrible to think that I had been using this unit for sooo long after the foam actually broke down and started appearing in the water containment unit. Luckily, I was able to obtain a new BMC Luna cpap unit so I could continue using a cpap until Phillips finally got around to replacing the old, defective one... I can't imagine why Phillips wants the old defective dreamstation 1 returned, but it may be that they will 'recondition' it and resell it to some unexpecting buyer... GRRR!!!! I will sent the old defective unit to Phillips, but only after I've taken several close up photos of the defective foam particles in the water chamber as they MAY be required some time in a future class action lawsuit. As far as the new Dreamstation 2... I can't believe that Phillips believes that this cheaply and lightly made cpap will last the FIVE years most insurance companies require a new unit to last before they will allow and pay for a new replacement unit!!! Luckily, I was fortunate enough to be able to replace my old unit w/the BMC Luna cpap... It's about a 1/3 the cost of a dreamsation but obviously much better made and I hope & believe it will last at least 5 more years!!! Shame on you Phillips Co,.!!!
Most cpap noise comes through the air in the hose. Try sticking your fingers in your ears when using the cpap, you will still hear it. I think the foam is there to baffle the noise in the pumped air, not so much the external noise level.
Hi Edie, it will be a DS1 with new silicone foam. There is talk that the new silicone foam is also bad news but we have to wait for some more test results to come back. Best wishes. Nicko
In certain respects, the foam debacle reminds me of what happened with the widespread use of asbestos, and the behavior and fate of companies that were involved with asbestos products.
Do you have a standard speed video to take apart the dreamstation 2 machine? I need to remove the foam. Nobody sells the DS2 motor housing without foam yet.
I'm getting my CPAP machine tomorrow, and I'm so glad I watched this video beforehand. I'll be removing the foam in mine as soon as I get it. Thank you so much for your work.
I called their support number. They said other than instructing customers to register they have no other guidelines at this time. I was told I would be getting an email once they know the next steps. This is ridiculous!
Surely they could at least provide an auto reply message that had just a little bit of information like 1. How they will fix the problem . 2. An ETA on the fix etc. It's this lack of information that's really frustrating me (amongst other things clearly). Not good enough
I was just about to drop $800 on a Resmed Cpap machine since my insurance declined replacing my dream station 1 at only 2 years old. Just received my dream station 2 in about a week ago and here are my thoughts. 1.They need to redesign a better travel bag. Why would one put the machine on top of tubing and power cord? The travel bag offers no protection to the top of the Cpap machine. 2. The overall feel of the machine feels chinstz especially the water chamber. 3. Its much quieter and more features to adjust along with my wife not complaining about the noise and brightness of the machine.
To my disappointment, I just received the DS 2 as a replacement. I have been trying to get everything set to get a Resmed, but though I would give the DS2 a trial even though it looked like junk. When I tried to fill the water reservoir, I found the only way to do that was to remove the whole end unit!!! Unbelievable and maddening. I am due for a replacement on my insurance, and will still go for a Resmed 10 or 11. Anything has to be better than this piece of junk!
So at a price around $2000 for DS1. Even if I had this for 2 years AND its still under warranty. Therefore the product is no longer fit for purpose. Can I get my money back?
Mine is only 8 months old and I want a FULL refund not a Dreamstation 2 or partial refund. I feel ripped off. Will never touch anything Phillips make again.
I used several of affected machines for the last 3 years. I have a few of the symptoms. I have been feeling like I inhaled cigarette smoke. Anyone else feel anything like this?
The bottom line any air that reaches the mask should never come in contact with the sound abatement foam. Looks like these machines need replaceable HEPA filters at the back of the machine or before the mask.
I think that's a fair point and i do believe we will see big changes to the designs in the coming years. I do like the idea of another filter also but that could cause problems with the humidification potentially. Great suggestion though. Nick
It has to for the foam to do its job. It's quieting the airflow by dampening resonances in the flow which would otherwise make the intake airflow louder. It's not a cushion to silence the blower fan. I'm not defending it saying it's a good idea to have non-replaceable foam in the airflow -- I just want people to understand why it's there. You can't separate it from the air and have it do anything useful.
@@400_billion_suns it's a good idea to not have the air you breathe run through products that emit harmful VOC's and is not replaceable. Seems like a nice place for things to live and grow.
@@CPAPReviews yes the humidification system, I forgot about that other beast. I never use it as I don't like the idea of water sitting in a tank and hose it's bad enough my entire area is blanketed by mushroom spores from all the farms. We have to wash the outsides of our house constantly!
@@DC8Combi I completely agree with that. As I said, I'm not saying having foam there was a good plan. I'm just trying to correct the misunderstanding that it could be separated from the air and still do its intended job.
Hi Christopher, you're welcome mate. The only one i know of so far is the Z2 auto which doesn't have foam inside it at all. Every other company i think has foam but i don't think foam is the big issues, it's just the type of foam used. Preferably one that doesn't Gas people! Cheers
I've been wondering where the black specs in my humidifier were coming from for a long long time. It never occurred to me that there would be foam inside the airway of my machine. I got my foam removed a couple days ago and am happy to have it gone. I can't tell the difference in noise. I don't think its needed and they probably even be using it internally. They could sound proof the machines between the air chamber and the machines case. I'm so glad for this channel thank you for your content.
Just found out about this in America. Pulled the foam from my DS1. Can’t tell any difference in the sound. Why create a resonant chamber instead of a wind tunnel!? Why line the roof of the resonant chamber with foam!? Why not build a wind tunnel then wrap the tunnel with sound baffle!? Why isn’t the turbine baffled? Thinning the herd, brothers. They’re thinning the herd.
Is anybody having a problem with white fibrous material discharging and accumulating in the humidifier tank? My first DreamStation 2 that I received as a replacement unit for my recalled System One was doing this. I sent it back and Philips sent me another DreamStation 2 replacement that I just received. After the third night of using this second machine there was a lot of white fibrous material floating in the tank again. It resembles the fibers in the filters. Now after watching this video I am wondering if it is the foam breaking down. It is a brand new machine!
I literally got my ds1 2 weeks before foam gate here in Australia. Is the recall happening here or just in USA? I was so happy I got the new cpap after I finally retired my ResMed s9. I really want to get away from Phillips, have I blown my money?
That’s pretty shit because they issued the warning back in April and stopped all orders. I’m really sorry for you. Philips will probably replace your unit with a DS2 but it will take some time. I hope you have you S9 still whilst you wait around for them. Many people unfortunately don’t have a back up device 😢
@@CPAPReviews no unfortunately it got retired due to wire burning smell when using it. 8 years service though. That’s why I was looking forward to new machine. I contacted pharmacy where I bought it, they spoke to the rep who said not to worry they also use one. So not sure what to do now.
I feel I just want my money back and move on. Maybe go back to ResMed but want to wait for new machine to come out but confidence in cpap providers all time low
This issue has just come to light with the public health service in the UK.They have not recalled the machines they have issued and are collecting information .
No wonder my asthma and kidney issues are worse when I have been using the Phillips DreamStation 1. I have already had stage four lymph node carcinoma. I can't be exposed to carcinogens. I am pissed at Phillips! They should have given me information so I would have chosen not to use the product. It would seem research and class action suites should be forth coming.
I have been using a Dreamstation 1 for three years and have recently been suffering from bad chest pains and breathing difficulties. It was diagnosed as a very nasty lung infection which caused my lower left lung to collapse and brought on pneumonia. I have been taking strong antibiotics which appears to have helped but I can’t help thinking that the cpap machine might have had something to do with it. Any advice?
The Dreamstation recall was pretty easy for me because I followed instructions from the start. I immediately went online, downloaded the app, and registered my Dreamstation 1. A couple of years went by... Then, when the recall occurred they sent me a notice of recall via the app and asked me to confirm my information. 2 months later I received my new Dreamstation 2. I registered it as well and proceeded to select my settings as well as pair it with the Philips app. Can we replace the foam in the Dreamstation 1 with the foam of the Dreamstation 2?
Guinness is has solved many problems in my life but this is not one of them! My solution is to change companies. Philips is rubbish and the company is joke from the top down. Cheers
I had a year of sinus infection nothing would help after I got my cpap had to have sinus surgery. Sad to thank all of the pain and being sick for a year was because of my cpap
My question is why they have that foam in the first place. When you remove it, the CPAP machine isn't any louder. The foam just costs extra money and is a potential health hazard.
Phillips never notified me. I learned of this by an off hand remark my doctor made as he left the exam room at my annual check-up two and a half months after Phillips recalled them. Nor did the medical supply company who sold me the machine contact me many months later. I will never forgive Phillips for this betrayal. If there's any way I can get a refund, even a partial one, I will jump back to ResMed in a flash. Phillips is dead to me. I hope they're destroyed when this is all through.
The place that sold it and the doctor should have told you. My sleep doctor contacted me 2 days after the official recall. He knew what machine I had based on the compliance checks and he had not written a new Rx for a different machine. Philips may not have even known you have the machine.
Philips CPAP division might rollover in bankruptcy to escape damages and the parent company will keep going with their many other medical subsidies. A large national CPAP supplier no longer will distribute any dream stations to their patients. My wife got a Resmed as a DS1 replacement. I got my DS1 from a small supplier no longer in business. I'll just do the foam removal for now. Not sure if I'll bother with the recall registration as I don't want a cheaper DS2 replacement. My insurance may not want to pay for a new machine yet and my copay.
So if it's so bad. Whos going to fork out the $ to buy a new machine (out of pocket) because the recall states only that u get a replacement. Not that you have choices on cash backm
Thanks for teardown. My understanding is Dreamstation 1 used a Polyester-based foam which was harmful whereas Dreamstation 2's is silicone which is (hopefully) safer. I got notified by Phillips that I have a choice between getting another Dreamstation 1 or a Dreamstation 2. I went with the Dreamstation 2 because I am worried they would give me a refurbished Dreamstation 1 that's already been used, at least the Dreamstation 2 will be new (hopefully).
Also some survivorship bias in those statistics. No dead person is going to highlight that the issue was cpap related. For any of the stats to be right they need to do some serious research and make sure they know which patients were cpap users and what brand they were using.
Hi Nick, I bought DS-1 a month ago, and after a lot of persuading and going back and forth I had my money refunded by the distributor, so I'm not able to perform a test. But I saw a YT video of a guy removing the foam, and an interesting comment in which the commenter said that he tested the DS-1 airflow with TVOC detector and that he was surprised badly and immediately stopped using the machine... Me too, I pointed the DS-1 airflow to my air purifier detector and got toxic results, which is not a lab test though, I may pushed some surrounding dust into the detector... Could you maybe perform such a test and check for us what TVOC detector says? Thanks
Great video! They just sent me that machine and I refuse to use it. I was on the Phillips dream station for 4 years. Since then I've been prescribed meds for severe stomach pain and nausea, 2 different inhalers (I never had asthma or used an inhaler in my life), 2 migrain medications, random crippling pains in my esophagus. I have to get a lung xray and pulmonary test because the dr could hear a slight blockage in my lung. I also have to go for an endoscopy for my stomach, and get checked for a rare cancer. I stopped using the machine when they sent me a recall notice 4 MONTHS AFTER IT WAS RECALLED! So far nothing has gone away after being off the machine. I'm only 36 and don't want to be on all these medications. I took my case to a lawyer, so I will see these criminals in court!
Thanks for all the great videos! I removed that foam thanks to you, with help from one of your videos. Two years I had that crap in there. Almost no difference in sound without it. I remove some plastic from the inside wall to get it out so it didn’t affect the filtration. Just one more reason we really like our Australian Brothers.. Many Thanks!
@@CPAPReviews I kinda agree, but I don't know if the other machines can be trusted either. With the phillips, I fixed the one real problem by removing the foam. It should be safe now for many years. I'm afraid I'll get another and in 5 years find out that the new machine has something wrong with its foam.
I don't know if it should even be called a "recall" given how little information there is other than "stop using the DS1". I've replaced mine with a Resmed 10, only complaint is I can't seem to get the humidification and tube temp right so I get tonnes of condensation in the tube. Sounds like I'm scuba diving! HA HA. Thanks for continuing to document the DS1 foamgate.
Hey mate, yeah you're right. In a normal recall you have clear and defined instructions and also resolutions to the problem oh and perhaps a timeline etc. This has nothing! Regarding the AirSense10. Switch the humidifier to manual mode and then you can turn the heated tube up independently to the water levels. Here's the link th-cam.com/video/FQXS7Lud5ys/w-d-xo.html
Go with manual settings, level 2 on humidifier seems to be about half the tank for me which is still a lot.. 4 and auto was just swamp time in the mask and would empty the tank in a night! 25'c on the heating seems ok.
What's happening bro? How's it going? I done what you did last year and bought the replacement casing without the foam and to honest with you, I sleep well without the worries about the foam and I'm still using the first machine. Many people on the Facebook been getting those new machines and not happy with it. When I told them about the replacement of the casing without the foam they flipped their wigs. They wanted to know was it safe or did it come from a third company. I told them that I've been using it without any problem and the old casing was still intact the black foam was still good but I didn't want to take any chances even though it was still useable. Thanks for sharing this video bro and as always, You rock! 👍
You nailed it exactly on people not knowing the CPAP machine was the cause of their respiratory ailment. I was one of those individuals and I wish I had been alerted earlier by this dishonest company about the possibility of it being toxic.
Has anyone noticed white particles floating in the water of the humidifier tank when you go to refill or change your water? When that foam disintegrates that’s where it will first be noticeable, in your water. I think the Dream Station 2 foam may not be cancer causing like the black foam in Dream Station 1, but I think it will eventually break apart and if you see small particles in your water you can bet they go up the hose into our masks and lungs. Keep an eye on your water appearance folks and God bless. And out in CPAP world we love your videos and thoughtful presentation. Keep up the good work.
Quick thoughts on the foam. Given the volume to pressure ratios that these little turbines are working at the actual motor noise is probably minimal and it’s the vane noise that is dominating. That means lagging the outside won’t help much, you need to do something in the flow path. Of course on the discharge side you have a whopping big tube that does the job, but on the inlet with a short path you’ll hear the noise at the intake point and it’ll be at annoying frequencies. What could you do? Well increase the path and/or design in a tuned baffle… the trade off is a baffle adds to manufacturing complexity and creates a bigger pressure drop maybe requiring the turbine to be up$ized. The other option is the sound absorption material to filter out or dampen most of that mid frequency stuff. In summary I believe you do need something in the actual flow path for noise attenuation but the cheapest solution has been selected. Anyway well done for keeping the awareness up, I think this will be another one that turns into a case example in university text books
Thanks mate! Sounds like you could get a job a Philips as a product engineer although if they offer you one i would advise you to turn it down haha. Thanks for the great insights. Nick
This ^^^ I am a mech and aerospace engineer and a good chunk of my master's degree involved the study of air and fluid flow. I agree that everything you said is probably correct (as much as we can theorize without having access to their design documentation, anyway). When it comes to mass-produced product design, the simplest, most reliable, and lowest cost solution *is* the best solution. This foam concept itself isn't the problem -- it's that the material they chose turned out to be dangerous and prone to degradation. The new white stuff is probably some material with a more proven track record -- maybe some kind of med-grade silicone foam. It doesn't need to be durable--that's not the problem with the old stuff. It just needs to (1) not decompose over time and (2) not release toxic gasses.
@@400_billion_suns what I'm wondering is if I remove the foam will it affect the pressures the computer has learned to keep your airway open. Will the pressure increase without the computer knowing once the foam is removed.
@Luis Armando Avalos The short answer is no, everything will work as before, *as long as you make the cuts cleanly to remove the foam and seal them back up as they were before.* The pressure sensor is after the blower, so the foam makes zero difference to it. The flow rate sensor sits between the two blocks of foam, so don’t make any cuts near it, and no matter where you place those cuts they need to be sealed up again for the flow sensor to read accurately. If you want more details see my two posts here: www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-News-RECALL-THREAD-IMPORTANT-PHILIPS-DREAMSTATION-SYSTEM-ONE-USERS?pid=402115#pid402115 www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-News-RECALL-THREAD-IMPORTANT-PHILIPS-DREAMSTATION-SYSTEM-ONE-USERS?pid=402143#pid402143
Love your videos. I just learned about this recall tonight and have watched a whole bunch of your videos already lol. I like my dreamstation 1. I think it works great. I'm not in the mood to go through any waiting or returning or buying another. So my next question is, do you think the foam is really for sound abatement only and nothing else? That leads to my next question. Do you think it's really safe to remove the foam and just continue using it. Because if it's safe I will just remove it tomorrow and carry on business as usual.
Thanks Luis, yes it's purely for the sound however my advice is to change brands. That thing will give you nightmares and potentially cancer. It's a nasty piece of work! Good luck
@@CPAPReviews so in your opinion even with the foam gone completley, the machine is not safe? I can see you've done your homework and have taken several of these things apart. So I'm not going to put my judgement before yours. If you tell me it's not worth removing the foam and you still don't trust the machine I will indeed just shop for a new one.
THANK YOU, THANK YOU for this message. Yesterday, I received the Dreamstation 2 in the mail. My instructions are to begin using this machine and return the Killing Machine using the prepaid mailing label. How nice of Philips to pay for the return. I will use the label to return this POS. Fortunately, Medicare pays for a new BiPAP machine next month. Medicare is paying for a new machine because my five years of use are now up. Unfortunately, I’ve been using this Killing Machine for five years. Thank you for providing the info needed to move forward with a different manufacturer of equipment. Isn’t it ironic that a sleep apnea treatment that is keeping me alive might be doing the complete opposite.
Hi Ron, you're welcome mate! Might be lucky that you're going to get a new one next month as i think the DS2 might also be recalled! - th-cam.com/video/plC1aUPbcdw/w-d-xo.html Switch to ResMed brother. Nicko
You should know, that resmed macheijnes (your pronounciation) are using the same type of foam. Are you worried about ist. All your videos should be marked as "Resmed adverstising". I think they giving you a lot of money for blaming philips over and over again. By the way several studies on dreamstation users for over 7 years showed didn't show any increased risk fo cancer compared with users of other devices.
I am going to send my unit, complete and intact, to a professional facility to have the air quality tested in it. I will have proof of what is coming out, what the total is for an average of 8 hours and the machine will be in one piece if I ever have to go to court about it. I am furious at this company.
@@CPAPReviews I will and I will post it to the FB group as well. Thank you for everything you do, for the machine breakdowns to the truth breakdowns. It is valuable and needed.
Love your videos. You helped me change out foam chamber on my DS1. So if DS2 is also junk, what is the best one to get?? I will be allowed to get a new unit via Medicare in US in February. Thanks
I've just got a Resmed S10 to replace my old Dreamstation. Should I replace the mask as well? can it be contaminated somehow from the use of the defective Dreamstation?
That's a good question. At the very least I would clean out the mask twice or three times using a mild soap and water. Since the materials of most masks aren't supposed to absorb stuff, as long as you clean it off of the surfaces, it should be okay.
Hey man, It's a tricky one i know but if you can you should definitely change brands. Although i don't like ResMed as a company, their machines are great and there safe and effective. Good luck man
I have received a letter from the hospital that provided my c-pap informing me that it has been recalled. They said to keep using it but to call Philips for further advice🤔
Phillips isn't a medical professional. But neither is the device provider at the hospital (just like a DME). Neither knows your medical history or health conditions. Your doctor knows that. He's the person to discuss using it discontinuing use with.
Hey mate, that's a shame but i do believe it's safe which is good. I just don't like Philips at all and i think that machine is made on the cheap but it will still give you a good night sleep. All the best mate. Nick
I am looking to buy a auto cpap for replacing my dreamstation. in the Netherlands cpap machines go through medical insurance so i have to import one. Can you tell me if the foam of the BMC G3 is save. This machine is nicely priced. otherwise mij only option is de resmed airsense 10. Hope you can tell me if it's save because i stopped my treathment and have to say it's pretty hard on my body so i would love to start again and not wait for more than a year.
Hi Rocco, i have a statement from BMC that their machines contain no Polyester Polyurethane and are safe and effective to use. No complaints to the FDA also. They're a great machine and i know them well. Nick
@@CPAPReviews Hi Nick. Thanks for the quick answer. This gives me options. Will take a closer look at BMC saves me more than 200 euro. The BMC is 549 and the resmed airsense 10 is around 769 euro that's a lot of money for a product we normaly get for free form the health insurance. Thnx again.
If the air chamber is exactly the same in the DS2 and the DS1, could it be used as a replacement? Install it into the DS1 to continue to use the DS1 so I can continue to have access to my data. Just a thought, I'm waiting for my replacement, Still no word for me. Thanks I love your videos.
I just started watching your channel. I notice you say the Phillips machine are not great, what are the best machines to get for my next cpap purchase?
Hi Michael, I actually really loved the DreamStation 1 by Philips! Just didn't know it had toxic foam inside it. The DS2 however is a cheap design and i don't rate it much. The AirSense 11 by ResMed will be released soon so keep an eye out for that ;-). Nick
G'day mates If you use a ResMed AirSense 10 or 11 you can now register for a free www.sleephq.com account. It's super easy to upload, review and share your cpap therapy data. We're adding new CPAP machines to the platform every month so join our mailing list and we will let you know when your CPAP is compatible cpap.review/sleephq-newsletter
1 amendments to freedom from malpractice
I've decided that I would be better off removing the foam and replacing it with a pair of socks that I've worn every day for 2 weeks...
Haha i appreciate the sense of humour during these dark times. Would probably smell better and be healthier that's for sure! Cheers for the laughs. Nick
Very unforgivable!!!
I really drove that word home didn't i!
Great content as usual. May i suggest that you take a look at the foams of all popular CPAP brands and share your findings with us. Thank you
Hi Manuel, thanks for the kind words. Yes i most certainly will :-)
Thank you
Nick
There needs to be a Congressional Investigation… just like what happened to Volkswagen when they lied about their diesel being clean.
That would very interesting if you could speak with a doctor on a future video, where he would explain the impact on the lungs, what to do, will the lungs auto-heal, etc. I opened my DreamStation to see the damages, and there is about 3 x 1 x 1 inches of foam missing... which means a lot of that crap is inside my lungs. When I touched a piece of foam under the fan, it's like tar, it's not solid as soon as you touch it. It's disgusting. I'll try to have an x-ray to assess the damages, but that would be great to hear a doctor on your channel to provide more information about the impacts on health (for people who have a big quantity of that foam inside their lungs) and what to do. I now use a Fisher & Paykel SleepStyle CPAP machine since last week, but I've been inhaling that stuff since 2018.
Did u use the ozone cleaner to clean it
@@spthagreat1870 Yes, I was using a SoClean device since I started to use my CPAP machine (Feb. 2018).
Pew took the foam out of my DS1 this evening, the foam was sticky and gross as you said.. I have a So Clean that I have used some. I stopped using it because it caused a terrible odor coming from my system after a cleaning cycle. With hindsight I imagine that it was the foam deteriorating. I realized that the So Clean affected foam the first time I put my headgear in the cleaner. The foam headgear became more elastic and stretched out of shape much quicker. I stopped putting the headgear in the machine. Very dismayed by the way Phillips has handled this foam situation. Nick, thank you for your information.
I really liked the old one. The humidifier tank on this new one is pain the ass.
Hey mate, yeah i'm not sure what they were thinking with that design! It's pretty bad. I don't know how well it will last also. The materials used seem pretty cheap to me but i guess when you're giving out 500 million of them your probably going to make it as cheap as you can. Best wishes. Nick
Not only did they not tell current DS1 users in all that time they new the foam was bad for their health but they kept selling the DS1.
Yup. I only had mine for 2 months.
Yeah that's very bad! Philips themselves stop taking new orders when they released the 'health warning' a few months ago but they obviously didn't try and stop their retail customers from selling the stock they already had. Really they should have recalled that stock at the time of the warning. Just another mistake from this terrible company. Nick
That sucks man. Sorry to hear it. Nick
I had mine for two years I’m fucked I used it everyday
Whoa!! I just got this machine in the mail so thanks for this. You are so right!! Unforgivable and I don't think I want to use any of their crap. What you said is spot on, people use CPAPs to improve their health not the opposite. Phillips should be out of the CPAP game for this completely.
Isn’t it the ozone cleaners that destroyed the foam? Seems like Phillips CPAP systems have been around for years with no problems until the ozone cleaners hit the market.
The dirty scoundrels! Corporate greed!
Wouldn't it be nice if for once they put their customers before their shareholders. What a dream that is. Cheers. Nick
Do we trust the medical industry after the jab debacle? Not me. They sent me back a DS1 and a DS2. I removed the foam from the DS1, now I’m going to remove the foam from the DS2. I haven’t gotten a headache from my DS1 since I removed the foam.
i have the new dreamstation 2 and i feel like the first dreamstation is better
I agree mate. It's much better in my opinion (minus the foam of course). Cheers
My face is still RED after 5 Day. They said in a web interview that all PROBLEMS would disapate in 24hours. I know now why I have had NOSE AND CHEST AND EYE PROBLEMS. DreamStation User from 2017.
I believe this is the end of Respironics, I don't think they will recover, nobody will want their product. If they fix my System one and my wifes dreamstation I don't want them and I won't sell them to some poor soul who has no idea of what has happened. In the bin they will go, How expensive is this going to be for people who can't afford new cpaps. Unforgivable. Nick love your work keep us all posted on info. And to the rest of the group remember you are not alone in this, we are in this together. Cheers Mick.
Hey Mick, Respironics ended a long time ago when Philips took them over and destroyed another great company. Also appreciate the kind words and great work supporting your fellow pappers :-). Your mate, Nicko
You have a good point, but sadly, most people are not well informed and they will listen to what their clinic will told them. If they tell people that the DreamStation 2 is a good machine and Philips is a well established and a reliable company, people will trust them and they will purchase millions of DS2. The best thing that could happen is that all CPAP equipment vendors would stop to sell Respironics machines. That would hurt Philips. Otherwise, they will have a small drop in their next financial report, and in one year everything will go back to normal and they will continue to sell their crap to people. They could even make more profit, as the DS2 is clearly not the same quality as the DS1 (except the foam), which means the profit margin is probably much higher. I highly doubt that all clinics and online vendors will stop selling Respironics machines. They will listen to Philips representatives BS, and everything will go back to normal. In a couple of years, maybe there will be a peak of people having lung cancer, and nobody will connect that situation to the fact that people were inhaling toxic stuff for years. Only a minority of people who are watching TH-cam channels like this one will make informed decisions, so I doubt it will really impact Philips. Sadly...
Mick, then return what ever they send you so someone that needs a machine can get them.
I will NEVER buy a Philips product again, I will join the class action, I want to see them pay for what they did,. They knew for months if not years that this foam was unsafe
Hey there, i'll never recommend one that's for sure! Plenty of class actions already. Just do a google search and put your name down for one. Cheers
@@CPAPReviews Hi Nick, I had a google search and can only find Class actions in the U.S, couldn't find any being started by anyone here in Australia, any chance you or anyone reading this has seen one, or are we able to put our names down on U.S ones?
They had to know the foam was bad because they didn’t use it in the new ones!!!
@@tricky2055 That is my belief
@@tricky2055 or the new foam was cheaper when there started designing the DS2. Maybe it was cheaper but not approved when they designed the DS1.
I went to Philips Head office in North Ryde to ask them to remove the foam from the DS1 without a recall, I just want the foam removed and no replacement. They said NO this is not the process they are undertaking, so I would have to wait until they set up their pop up hubs! I think this recall will take months.... in the mean time a lot of people who are unaware of the issues are suffering!!!
Yes i Agree. We dont know the damage caused by philips to customer because of that cheap foam. Now Im not even sure if my S10 device safe 100 %. Maybe 3 years from now, another medic fact will be shown that my s10 also dangerous for health. 😑😑😑
I think all the companies will make changes to their designs in the near future or come up with new 'safe' materials. Cheers. Nick
Unbelievable ! I'd never want the airflow go through that white foam in DS 2 and reach my lungs. I mean look how easily it breaks. What if it starts degrading in a couple of years and the particles end up my in lungs ? No way! This is unacceptable !
I was very very surprised and the DS2 foam and how brittle it is! Especially with all the DS1 foam problems with degradation. It looked to me like even a strong pressure would suck off bits of the white DS2 foam. I have big concerns about the longevity of it. Cheers
@@CPAPReviews and it’s white so it’ll be harder to see!
What Phillips has done is very unforgivable!!
Look for and join the class action lawsuits
Is there a Cpap machine you recommend ? This whole time I blamed my headaches,nasal infections on dirty hoses.nasal pillows which I clean every day 😡
Hi Carlos, sorry to hear that brother. I know a lot of people have been buying the ResMed AirSense 10 machines which are Philips main competitor. It's a quality unit however soon to be replaced by the AirSense 11 later this year. F&P also make a good machine called the SleepStyle.
@@CPAPReviews I have to look in to those thanks. Great videos
I was recently diagnosed, and my insurance and DME set me up with a Resmed Airsense 10. First impressions from using it the past week, is that it seems to be a unit of quality. Of course, I don't have a Dreamstation to compare it to.
Me too,boy were we wrong!
Are there any videos that show how to open up the dreamstation machines from A to Z to remove the foam?
I've seen vids on how to remove the foam from it's chamber, but I could use a complete tutorial on getting the unit open etc.
Thanks for your vids mate!!
I have been using a DS1 for about 4 years and have been in and out of doctors for at least 2 years to find out the cause of my throbbing headaches, nausea, as well as lung issues. I went through all kinds of tests and my doctors were starting to think I was an hypochondriac. I stopped using the machine since the recall was announced and I'm still having almost constant headaches and nausea.
How about a class Action against them?
too bad they don't make foamless turbine casing for Dreamstation2
I have asked them too
Nick, Thank you very, very much for keeping us informed! Your leadership is the best thing that our community has going for us. My question (relative to the US audience), is where the heck is the Food and Drug Administration/ FDA in this giant mess? Why aren’t they compelling Phillips to manage this more effectively OR take over the process?
you must be joking who do you think runs that shit show??
So they replace with more foam. What do ones do that can't breathe? How do we get compensated? The first night I used my machine, I had a piece of black plastic chip of some kind in my mouth the next morning.
@@seawoods8886 class action law suits! Do you have LegalShield or an attorney?
I couldn't believe how flimsy and cheap the DS 2 is. what a piece of crap.
Spot on mate. I was the same! Absolute rubbish of a device
I don't understand how they think the foam should be in the air path. I removed the foam from my DS1 and other than maybe the slightest change to the sound but not any louder, it's the same as usual under normal operation.
I have to do that I’m tired of the headaches
The difference in sound from foam vs. no foam will likely depend on how much air you inhale and how fast you do it. For most people it probably won't make any significant difference, but for an unlucky few they might end up with a resonance in that chamber that makes it a lot more annoying than before.
@@400_billion_suns Yeah, I could see certain conditions causing a higher db level, but a well designed intake chamber along with better blower control logic should be able to keep things to a minimal. Maybe that wasn't cost effective or technologically possible at the time the DS1 was designed.
Can you make a video showing how to remove the foam the DS2 and reassemble?
Yes i can mate. I'll do a tear down vid shortly
Thanks for this video comparing the Dreamstation 1 w/the new Dreamstation 2!!! I just received my NEW replacement Dreamstations 2 yesterday (Sep 21, 2022...). I had to stop using my old Dreamstation 2 after it started shedding black particles of foam from the sound isolation cavity... It was horrible to think that I had been using this unit for sooo long after the foam actually broke down and started appearing in the water containment unit. Luckily, I was able to obtain a new BMC Luna cpap unit so I could continue using a cpap until Phillips finally got around to replacing the old, defective one... I can't imagine why Phillips wants the old defective dreamstation 1 returned, but it may be that they will 'recondition' it and resell it to some unexpecting buyer... GRRR!!!! I will sent the old defective unit to Phillips, but only after I've taken several close up photos of the defective foam particles in the water chamber as they MAY be required some time in a future class action lawsuit.
As far as the new Dreamstation 2... I can't believe that Phillips believes that this cheaply and lightly made cpap will last the FIVE years most insurance companies require a new unit to last before they will allow and pay for a new replacement unit!!! Luckily, I was fortunate enough to be able to replace my old unit w/the BMC Luna cpap... It's about a 1/3 the cost of a dreamsation but obviously much better made and I hope & believe it will last at least 5 more years!!! Shame on you Phillips Co,.!!!
Most cpap noise comes through the air in the hose. Try sticking your fingers in your ears when using the cpap, you will still hear it. I think the foam is there to baffle the noise in the pumped air, not so much the external noise level.
Yeah probably right, they have obviously put it in that spot for a reason. Thanks for your insights. Nick
They sent me a replacement but it’s white an just says dream station. I’m scarred to use it.
Hi Edie, it will be a DS1 with new silicone foam. There is talk that the new silicone foam is also bad news but we have to wait for some more test results to come back. Best wishes. Nicko
In certain respects, the foam debacle reminds me of what happened with the widespread use of asbestos, and the behavior and fate of companies that were involved with asbestos products.
Most definitely Barry!
Do you have a standard speed video to take apart the dreamstation 2 machine? I need to remove the foam. Nobody sells the DS2 motor housing without foam yet.
I'm getting my CPAP machine tomorrow, and I'm so glad I watched this video beforehand. I'll be removing the foam in mine as soon as I get it. Thank you so much for your work.
Don't think I would ever go back to Philips
I still have not heard back after registering my product.
Same here
I called their support number. They said other than instructing customers to register they have no other guidelines at this time. I was told I would be getting an email once they know the next steps. This is ridiculous!
Surely they could at least provide an auto reply message that had just a little bit of information like 1. How they will fix the problem . 2. An ETA on the fix etc. It's this lack of information that's really frustrating me (amongst other things clearly). Not good enough
I was just about to drop $800 on a Resmed Cpap machine since my insurance declined replacing my dream station 1 at only 2 years old. Just received my dream station 2 in about a week ago and here are my thoughts. 1.They need to redesign a better travel bag. Why would one put the machine on top of tubing and power cord? The travel bag offers no protection to the top of the Cpap machine. 2. The overall feel of the machine feels chinstz especially the water chamber. 3. Its much quieter and more features to adjust along with my wife not complaining about the noise and brightness of the machine.
I don't think the AS10 bag is any better. And the water tank in it feels cheap and is a pain to fill compared to my SystemOne 60.
To my disappointment, I just received the DS 2 as a replacement. I have been trying to get everything set to get a Resmed, but though I would give the DS2 a trial even though it looked like junk. When I tried to fill the water reservoir, I found the only way to do that was to remove the whole end unit!!! Unbelievable and maddening. I am due for a replacement on my insurance, and will still go for a Resmed 10 or 11. Anything has to be better than this piece of junk!
I think what pisses me off more is that the recall was made 4 months ago and im just now finding out about it?!
So at a price around $2000 for DS1.
Even if I had this for 2 years AND its still under warranty.
Therefore the product is no longer fit for purpose.
Can I get my money back?
Mine is only 8 months old and I want a FULL refund not a Dreamstation 2 or partial refund. I feel ripped off. Will never touch anything Phillips make again.
They repair it under warranty like any other product. In this case the repair is the same as for all the other recalled machines.
Please do this again, only slower, I want to remove the foam from the dreamstation 2. Thank you for all your help
I used several of affected machines for the last 3 years. I have a few of the symptoms. I have been feeling like I inhaled cigarette smoke. Anyone else feel anything like this?
Oh that's terrible. I have heard from a lot of people having a variety of symptoms like that. It's not good! Nick
Is the turbine housing in the DS2 the same as the DS1 turbine housing?
Edit: After disassembling my DS 2, the turbine cases are different.
Can you please recommend a Bipap machine. And thanks for all your hard work!
The bottom line any air that reaches the mask should never come in contact with the sound abatement foam. Looks like these machines need replaceable HEPA filters at the back of the machine or before the mask.
I think that's a fair point and i do believe we will see big changes to the designs in the coming years. I do like the idea of another filter also but that could cause problems with the humidification potentially. Great suggestion though. Nick
It has to for the foam to do its job. It's quieting the airflow by dampening resonances in the flow which would otherwise make the intake airflow louder. It's not a cushion to silence the blower fan. I'm not defending it saying it's a good idea to have non-replaceable foam in the airflow -- I just want people to understand why it's there. You can't separate it from the air and have it do anything useful.
@@400_billion_suns it's a good idea to not have the air you breathe run through products that emit harmful VOC's and is not replaceable. Seems like a nice place for things to live and grow.
@@CPAPReviews yes the humidification system, I forgot about that other beast. I never use it as I don't like the idea of water sitting in a tank and hose it's bad enough my entire area is blanketed by mushroom spores from all the farms. We have to wash the outsides of our house constantly!
@@DC8Combi I completely agree with that. As I said, I'm not saying having foam there was a good plan. I'm just trying to correct the misunderstanding that it could be separated from the air and still do its intended job.
I removed the Dreamstation 2 white foam last night. You are right, It is crumbly and porous. It has has to be an environment for mold and fungus.
Nick, Thanks for all the information! Any idea on what machines have the foam sealed off, and/or not in the air pathway??
Hi Christopher, you're welcome mate. The only one i know of so far is the Z2 auto which doesn't have foam inside it at all. Every other company i think has foam but i don't think foam is the big issues, it's just the type of foam used. Preferably one that doesn't Gas people! Cheers
I've been wondering where the black specs in my humidifier were coming from for a long long time. It never occurred to me that there would be foam inside the airway of my machine. I got my foam removed a couple days ago and am happy to have it gone. I can't tell the difference in noise. I don't think its needed and they probably even be using it internally. They could sound proof the machines between the air chamber and the machines case. I'm so glad for this channel thank you for your content.
Just found out about this in America. Pulled the foam from my DS1. Can’t tell any difference in the sound. Why create a resonant chamber instead of a wind tunnel!? Why line the roof of the resonant chamber with foam!? Why not build a wind tunnel then wrap the tunnel with sound baffle!? Why isn’t the turbine baffled? Thinning the herd, brothers. They’re thinning the herd.
Is anybody having a problem with white fibrous material discharging and accumulating in the humidifier tank? My first DreamStation 2 that I received as a replacement unit for my recalled System One was doing this. I sent it back and Philips sent me another DreamStation 2 replacement that I just received. After the third night of using this second machine there was a lot of white fibrous material floating in the tank again. It resembles the fibers in the filters. Now after watching this video I am wondering if it is the foam breaking down. It is a brand new machine!
I literally got my ds1 2 weeks before foam gate here in Australia. Is the recall happening here or just in USA? I was so happy I got the new cpap after I finally retired my ResMed s9. I really want to get away from Phillips, have I blown my money?
That’s pretty shit because they issued the warning back in April and stopped all orders. I’m really sorry for you. Philips will probably replace your unit with a DS2 but it will take some time. I hope you have you S9 still whilst you wait around for them. Many people unfortunately don’t have a back up device 😢
@@CPAPReviews no unfortunately it got retired due to wire burning smell when using it. 8 years service though. That’s why I was looking forward to new machine. I contacted pharmacy where I bought it, they spoke to the rep who said not to worry they also use one. So not sure what to do now.
I feel I just want my money back and move on. Maybe go back to ResMed but want to wait for new machine to come out but confidence in cpap providers all time low
This issue has just come to light with the public health service in the UK.They have not recalled the machines they have issued and are collecting information .
No wonder my asthma and kidney issues are worse when I have been using the Phillips DreamStation 1. I have already had stage four lymph node carcinoma. I can't be exposed to carcinogens. I am pissed at Phillips! They should have given me information so I would have chosen not to use the product. It would seem research and class action suites should be forth coming.
Talk about your TGA Department. Have they helped anybody you know of?
I have been using a Dreamstation 1 for three years and have recently been suffering from bad chest pains and breathing difficulties. It was diagnosed as a very nasty lung infection which caused my lower left lung to collapse and brought on pneumonia. I have been taking strong antibiotics which appears to have helped but I can’t help thinking that the cpap machine might have had something to do with it. Any advice?
The Dreamstation recall was pretty easy for me because I followed instructions from the start. I immediately went online, downloaded the app, and registered my Dreamstation 1. A couple of years went by... Then, when the recall occurred they sent me a notice of recall via the app and asked me to confirm my information. 2 months later I received my new Dreamstation 2. I registered it as well and proceeded to select my settings as well as pair it with the Philips app. Can we replace the foam in the Dreamstation 1 with the foam of the Dreamstation 2?
Thats why I roll with the RESMED!
What’s the solution Guinness
Guinness is has solved many problems in my life but this is not one of them! My solution is to change companies. Philips is rubbish and the company is joke from the top down. Cheers
I had a year of sinus infection nothing would help after I got my cpap had to have sinus surgery. Sad to thank all of the pain and being sick for a year was because of my cpap
That sucks dude. I get to the part where you take it apart and you speed through it. Did you ever think that’s why people watched your video.
My question is why they have that foam in the first place. When you remove it, the CPAP machine isn't any louder. The foam just costs extra money and is a potential health hazard.
Phillips never notified me. I learned of this by an off hand remark my doctor made as he left the exam room at my annual check-up two and a half months after Phillips recalled them. Nor did the medical supply company who sold me the machine contact me many months later. I will never forgive Phillips for this betrayal. If there's any way I can get a refund, even a partial one, I will jump back to ResMed in a flash. Phillips is dead to me. I hope they're destroyed when this is all through.
The place that sold it and the doctor should have told you. My sleep doctor contacted me 2 days after the official recall. He knew what machine I had based on the compliance checks and he had not written a new Rx for a different machine.
Philips may not have even known you have the machine.
Philips CPAP division might rollover in bankruptcy to escape damages and the parent company will keep going with their many other medical subsidies. A large national CPAP supplier no longer will distribute any dream stations to their patients. My wife got a Resmed as a DS1 replacement. I got my DS1 from a small supplier no longer in business. I'll just do the foam removal for now. Not sure if I'll bother with the recall registration as I don't want a cheaper DS2 replacement. My insurance may not want to pay for a new machine yet and my copay.
So if it's so bad. Whos going to fork out the $ to buy a new machine (out of pocket) because the recall states only that u get a replacement. Not that you have choices on cash backm
Thanks for teardown. My understanding is Dreamstation 1 used a Polyester-based foam which was harmful whereas Dreamstation 2's is silicone which is (hopefully) safer. I got notified by Phillips that I have a choice between getting another Dreamstation 1 or a Dreamstation 2. I went with the Dreamstation 2 because I am worried they would give me a refurbished Dreamstation 1 that's already been used, at least the Dreamstation 2 will be new (hopefully).
Also some survivorship bias in those statistics. No dead person is going to highlight that the issue was cpap related. For any of the stats to be right they need to do some serious research and make sure they know which patients were cpap users and what brand they were using.
Hi Nick, I bought DS-1 a month ago, and after a lot of persuading and going back and forth I had my money refunded by the distributor, so I'm not able to perform a test. But I saw a YT video of a guy removing the foam, and an interesting comment in which the commenter said that he tested the DS-1 airflow with TVOC detector and that he was surprised badly and immediately stopped using the machine... Me too, I pointed the DS-1 airflow to my air purifier detector and got toxic results, which is not a lab test though, I may pushed some surrounding dust into the detector... Could you maybe perform such a test and check for us what TVOC detector says? Thanks
Great video! They just sent me that machine and I refuse to use it. I was on the Phillips dream station for 4 years. Since then I've been prescribed meds for severe stomach pain and nausea, 2 different inhalers (I never had asthma or used an inhaler in my life), 2 migrain medications, random crippling pains in my esophagus. I have to get a lung xray and pulmonary test because the dr could hear a slight blockage in my lung. I also have to go for an endoscopy for my stomach, and get checked for a rare cancer. I stopped using the machine when they sent me a recall notice 4 MONTHS AFTER IT WAS RECALLED! So far nothing has gone away after being off the machine. I'm only 36 and don't want to be on all these medications. I took my case to a lawyer, so I will see these criminals in court!
I haven’t used the machine since the recall…..but what the heck am I supposed to do…..
Thanks for all the great videos! I removed that foam thanks to you, with help from one of your videos. Two years I had that crap in there. Almost no difference in sound without it. I remove some plastic from the inside wall to get it out so it didn’t affect the filtration. Just one more reason we really like our Australian Brothers.. Many Thanks!
Hi Chad, glad to help mate but make sure you ditch that piece of shit philips cpap when you get a chance. Cheers
@@CPAPReviews I kinda agree, but I don't know if the other machines can be trusted either. With the phillips, I fixed the one real problem by removing the foam. It should be safe now for many years. I'm afraid I'll get another and in 5 years find out that the new machine has something wrong with its foam.
If ozone cleaning damages that tough black foam, I wouldn't even consider using it with the new, fragile white foam.
I don't know if it should even be called a "recall" given how little information there is other than "stop using the DS1". I've replaced mine with a Resmed 10, only complaint is I can't seem to get the humidification and tube temp right so I get tonnes of condensation in the tube. Sounds like I'm scuba diving! HA HA. Thanks for continuing to document the DS1 foamgate.
Hey mate, yeah you're right. In a normal recall you have clear and defined instructions and also resolutions to the problem oh and perhaps a timeline etc. This has nothing! Regarding the AirSense10. Switch the humidifier to manual mode and then you can turn the heated tube up independently to the water levels. Here's the link th-cam.com/video/FQXS7Lud5ys/w-d-xo.html
@@CPAPReviews Thanks for the link. I think I have the humidity too high and the tube temp too low. Auto works but leaves me with dry nose and mouth.
Go with manual settings, level 2 on humidifier seems to be about half the tank for me which is still a lot.. 4 and auto was just swamp time in the mask and would empty the tank in a night! 25'c on the heating seems ok.
What's happening bro? How's it going? I done what you did last year and bought the replacement casing without the foam and to honest with you, I sleep well without the worries about the foam and I'm still using the first machine. Many people on the Facebook been getting those new machines and not happy with it. When I told them about the replacement of the casing without the foam they flipped their wigs. They wanted to know was it safe or did it come from a third company. I told them that I've been using it without any problem and the old casing was still intact the black foam was still good but I didn't want to take any chances even though it was still useable. Thanks for sharing this video bro and as always, You rock! 👍
Cheers brother
Houston Texas really appreciate your support n help us to know thank u so so mucu
You nailed it exactly on people not knowing the CPAP machine was the cause of their respiratory ailment. I was one of those individuals and I wish I had been alerted earlier by this dishonest company about the possibility of it being toxic.
Has anyone noticed white particles floating in the water of the humidifier tank when you go to refill or change your water? When that foam disintegrates that’s where it will first be noticeable, in your water. I think the Dream Station 2 foam may not be cancer causing like the black foam in Dream Station 1, but I think it will eventually break apart and if you see small particles in your water you can bet they go up the hose into our masks and lungs. Keep an eye on your water appearance folks and God bless. And out in CPAP world we love your videos and thoughtful presentation. Keep up the good work.
I use a secondary filter on my hose.
Quick thoughts on the foam. Given the volume to pressure ratios that these little turbines are working at the actual motor noise is probably minimal and it’s the vane noise that is dominating. That means lagging the outside won’t help much, you need to do something in the flow path. Of course on the discharge side you have a whopping big tube that does the job, but on the inlet with a short path you’ll hear the noise at the intake point and it’ll be at annoying frequencies.
What could you do? Well increase the path and/or design in a tuned baffle… the trade off is a baffle adds to manufacturing complexity and creates a bigger pressure drop maybe requiring the turbine to be up$ized. The other option is the sound absorption material to filter out or dampen most of that mid frequency stuff.
In summary I believe you do need something in the actual flow path for noise attenuation but the cheapest solution has been selected.
Anyway well done for keeping the awareness up, I think this will be another one that turns into a case example in university text books
Thanks mate! Sounds like you could get a job a Philips as a product engineer although if they offer you one i would advise you to turn it down haha. Thanks for the great insights. Nick
This ^^^ I am a mech and aerospace engineer and a good chunk of my master's degree involved the study of air and fluid flow. I agree that everything you said is probably correct (as much as we can theorize without having access to their design documentation, anyway). When it comes to mass-produced product design, the simplest, most reliable, and lowest cost solution *is* the best solution. This foam concept itself isn't the problem -- it's that the material they chose turned out to be dangerous and prone to degradation. The new white stuff is probably some material with a more proven track record -- maybe some kind of med-grade silicone foam. It doesn't need to be durable--that's not the problem with the old stuff. It just needs to (1) not decompose over time and (2) not release toxic gasses.
You could use ozone 💩😂
@@400_billion_suns what I'm wondering is if I remove the foam will it affect the pressures the computer has learned to keep your airway open. Will the pressure increase without the computer knowing once the foam is removed.
@Luis Armando Avalos The short answer is no, everything will work as before, *as long as you make the cuts cleanly to remove the foam and seal them back up as they were before.* The pressure sensor is after the blower, so the foam makes zero difference to it. The flow rate sensor sits between the two blocks of foam, so don’t make any cuts near it, and no matter where you place those cuts they need to be sealed up again for the flow sensor to read accurately. If you want more details see my two posts here:
www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-News-RECALL-THREAD-IMPORTANT-PHILIPS-DREAMSTATION-SYSTEM-ONE-USERS?pid=402115#pid402115
www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-News-RECALL-THREAD-IMPORTANT-PHILIPS-DREAMSTATION-SYSTEM-ONE-USERS?pid=402143#pid402143
Love your videos. I just learned about this recall tonight and have watched a whole bunch of your videos already lol. I like my dreamstation 1. I think it works great. I'm not in the mood to go through any waiting or returning or buying another. So my next question is, do you think the foam is really for sound abatement only and nothing else? That leads to my next question. Do you think it's really safe to remove the foam and just continue using it. Because if it's safe I will just remove it tomorrow and carry on business as usual.
Thanks Luis, yes it's purely for the sound however my advice is to change brands. That thing will give you nightmares and potentially cancer. It's a nasty piece of work! Good luck
@@CPAPReviews so in your opinion even with the foam gone completley, the machine is not safe? I can see you've done your homework and have taken several of these things apart. So I'm not going to put my judgement before yours. If you tell me it's not worth removing the foam and you still don't trust the machine I will indeed just shop for a new one.
THANK YOU, THANK YOU for this message. Yesterday, I received the Dreamstation 2 in the mail. My instructions are to begin using this machine and return the Killing Machine using the prepaid mailing label. How nice of Philips to pay for the return. I will use the label to return this POS. Fortunately, Medicare pays for a new BiPAP machine next month. Medicare is paying for a new machine because my five years of use are now up. Unfortunately, I’ve been using this Killing Machine for five years. Thank you for providing the info needed to move forward with a different manufacturer of equipment. Isn’t it ironic that a sleep apnea treatment that is keeping me alive might be doing the complete opposite.
Hi Ron, you're welcome mate! Might be lucky that you're going to get a new one next month as i think the DS2 might also be recalled! - th-cam.com/video/plC1aUPbcdw/w-d-xo.html
Switch to ResMed brother. Nicko
I bought a casing with no foam and it’s not loud. Phillips is stupid!
You should know, that resmed macheijnes (your pronounciation) are using the same type of foam. Are you worried about ist. All your videos should be marked as "Resmed adverstising". I think they giving you a lot of money for blaming philips over and over again. By the way several studies on dreamstation users for over 7 years showed didn't show any increased risk fo cancer compared with users of other devices.
Haha thanks for the laughs 😂
Such a good video.
Appreciate that legend. Cheers
I am going to send my unit, complete and intact, to a professional facility to have the air quality tested in it. I will have proof of what is coming out, what the total is for an average of 8 hours and the machine will be in one piece if I ever have to go to court about it. I am furious at this company.
Hey, i would love to know what the results are! Please do share when you get them. Best of luck. Nick
@@CPAPReviews I will and I will post it to the FB group as well. Thank you for everything you do, for the machine breakdowns to the truth breakdowns. It is valuable and needed.
@@JustTheTruth-Please ever get those results?
I have a dream station 2 - Now I'm terrified - is there a machine that IS safe ?
They sent me this crap machine for the recalled Dreamstation.
Will the little in line filters keep particles and gasses out of our lungs?
Hi Frances, unfortunately not. Sorry about that. Nick
Particles yes. Gasses no.
Love your videos. You helped me change out foam chamber on my DS1. So if DS2 is also junk, what is the best one to get?? I will be allowed to get a new unit via Medicare in US in February. Thanks
G'day mate, i think your only option is the AirSense 11 via medicare - th-cam.com/video/4bWBILnuJlw/w-d-xo.html . Cheers
We need a video showing the best way to remove the foam from the DS2
Hey Matt, i've got a DS2 so i will put a video together mate. Cheers
@@CPAPReviews any update on the video?
I've just got a Resmed S10 to replace my old Dreamstation. Should I replace the mask as well? can it be contaminated somehow from the use of the defective Dreamstation?
That's a good question. At the very least I would clean out the mask twice or three times using a mild soap and water. Since the materials of most masks aren't supposed to absorb stuff, as long as you clean it off of the surfaces, it should be okay.
So what do I do man? I have a dreamstation when I call them do I ask for another brand or something since the dreamstation 2 is bull crap too?
Hey man, It's a tricky one i know but if you can you should definitely change brands. Although i don't like ResMed as a company, their machines are great and there safe and effective. Good luck man
Fuck, ya. Just got mine (DS-2) Your comments make sense. Anyone launching a Class Action?
Watch this vid mate it will make you see red! - th-cam.com/video/plC1aUPbcdw/w-d-xo.html
So I got a replacement today but the moment I used it I got a smokey smell from it . Has anyone else have the same thing with their dreamstation 2
I haven't heard of it mate but if it continues please do get in touch with me. Thank you
I have received a letter from the hospital that provided my c-pap informing me that it has been recalled. They said to keep using it but to call Philips for further advice🤔
Phillips isn't a medical professional. But neither is the device provider at the hospital (just like a DME).
Neither knows your medical history or health conditions. Your doctor knows that. He's the person to discuss using it discontinuing use with.
Well depends, silicone itself is completely safe.
My insurance gave me a dream station 2 since every other machine is not available. Should I ask for a exchange or it is safe?
Hey mate, that's a shame but i do believe it's safe which is good. I just don't like Philips at all and i think that machine is made on the cheap but it will still give you a good night sleep. All the best mate. Nick
@@CPAPReviews What machine do you recommend ?
New machine doesn't look like junk. Just need to eliminate the foam and put up with a little more noise.
The new DS2 is rubbish mate. Much better options available. Cheers
I am looking to buy a auto cpap for replacing my dreamstation. in the Netherlands cpap machines go through medical insurance so i have to import one. Can you tell me if the foam of the BMC G3 is save. This machine is nicely priced. otherwise mij only option is de resmed airsense 10. Hope you can tell me if it's save because i stopped my treathment and have to say it's pretty hard on my body so i would love to start again and not wait for more than a year.
Hi Rocco, i have a statement from BMC that their machines contain no Polyester Polyurethane and are safe and effective to use. No complaints to the FDA also. They're a great machine and i know them well. Nick
@@CPAPReviews Hi Nick. Thanks for the quick answer. This gives me options. Will take a closer look at BMC saves me more than 200 euro. The BMC is 549 and the resmed airsense 10 is around 769 euro that's a lot of money for a product we normaly get for free form the health insurance. Thnx again.
If the air chamber is exactly the same in the DS2 and the DS1, could it be used as a replacement? Install it into the DS1 to continue to use the DS1 so I can continue to have access to my data. Just a thought, I'm waiting for my replacement, Still no word for me. Thanks I love your videos.
Hey bro, it's not 100% the same, it's very similar but there's a few small changes and it's slightly smaller. Cheers
@@CPAPReviews did you try setting it in the DS1 to see if it could be made to work? Maybe with some 3d printed adapters?
I just started watching your channel. I notice you say the Phillips machine are not great, what are the best machines to get for my next cpap purchase?
Hi Michael, I actually really loved the DreamStation 1 by Philips! Just didn't know it had toxic foam inside it. The DS2 however is a cheap design and i don't rate it much. The AirSense 11 by ResMed will be released soon so keep an eye out for that ;-). Nick
please state the credentials that enable you to review these machines. thank you.
Jedi Knight