Just like you, I got the Old Maha, Sanyo, Xstar, PowerEx, ditto so many chargers. And soon gunning for Liitokala 600. 🤭 Battery too, from Sanyo Eneloop now to Ikea Ladda.
I'm not the only obsessive, then?! I can also see myself buying more chargers in the future. I've been using all three chargers a lot this past week, refreshing and analyzing batteries that I've tested previously. I had a few strange results with the Vapcell, which gave me far lower readings than I expected. When I tested them again with the LiitoKala, they were fine. From the comments I've received, quite a few people rave about the Vapcell and I've had some negative comments about the LiitoKala, but the LiitoKala Lii-600 has always been fine for me. I've bought several different brands of battery in the past, but these days I usually stick with Ladda and buy them directly from IKEA. A lot of batteries I've bought on-line have been fakes, so I now try to buy them direct from the manufacturer to ensure I get genuine ones.
The Vapcell S4+ is the best bang for your buck you can get if you have more than a couple cylindrical cells, especially if you need to capacity test a bunch of 18650's/21700's. I wrote off Liito Kala after I noticed my Lii-500S was consistently giving me 3400mAh on slots 1 & 4 for slightly used LG MJ1's and slots 2 & 3 consistently gave me about 3200mAh. If I took those same 4 cells and switched their slot lcoation 1&4--->2&3=identical results. So I knew it was charger related and it was a difference in the slots So I tore the charger open and soldered a high quality Keystone cell holder with some thick silicone wires to the pads on the PCB that the spring loaded metal contacts attach to. Ran the same test and started taking some measurements. Found one interesting inconsistency. The discharge current on slots 2 and 3 when set to 500mA would only be 470mA. Slots 1 and 4 were a pretty solid 500mA. Maybe only 1 or 2 mA deviation. I didn't bother trying it with 250mA, I never use it. I can't say that the Lii-600 suffers from the same defect but I would be surprised if they fixed the issue. My guess is that there is a difference between those sets of slots because 1 and 4 are capable of higher charging rate so possibly there is a difference in the components or the design of the circuit. However they designed slots 2 and 3....they fucked up. So the results I was getting from the Lii-500S from the 40 cells I had already tested went out the window because I didn't know which cells went into slots 2 and 3. I tested the results up against my EBC A20 and verified that slots 1 and 4 gave a fairly accurate reading. My EBC A20 has a ZKE Tech cell holder with four wire measurement ZKE Tech cell sled/holder goughlui.com/2021/01/17/quick-review-zketech-zke-battery-rack-4-wire-kelvin-aaa-aa-18650-test-fixture/ One of many stores selling it on Aliexpress. The price is so so. You might find it $2 cheaper www.aliexpress.us/item/3256801833842358.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt
Thanks for your comprehensive comment. You obviously have more knowledge of electronics than I do. I haven't noticed any problems with the LiitoKala, but I don't really have the skills or equipment to do any extensive testing. I bought the Vapcell on the recommendation of a comment I received, and generally comments regarding the Vapcell seem very favourable whereas I have received some negative comments about the other chargers. Your information is appreciated.
@@PhilUKNet seems that my last comment deleted itself? TH-cam is strange. The results can only be seen (and viewed with any confidence) if you run identical cells, preferably from the same batch, or two cells recovered from the same parallel group of a pack that hasn't degraded too much. The more they are degraded the more the difference could be between cells. If you ever get the chance to run two or even four cells through the Lii-600 that meet those requirements please leave a comment here and let me know your results. I haven't found any reviews for the 600 complaining of this defect but I haven't really looked. I found 2 reviews of the 500S mirroring what I discovered which is what made me decide run my mouth on TH-cam and forums to let people know the 500S couldn't be trusted. Of course Liito Kala say these aren't precision measurement devices blah blah blah but its no excuse for not being able to properly replicate a circuit 4 times to give results that are quite similar and not have a 6% difference.
@@ericklein5097 TH-cam is a law unto itself. Initially, I didn't see your comment on my phone but it appeared later on my computer. A lot of my comments also get auto-deleted. It's very frustrating. This battery charging business can be a headache. There are just so many variables involved and that makes it very difficult to do any meaningful comparisons. The brand, the batch, the age and condition, how many charge/discharge cycles, which charger, which slot, which mode, the charge and discharge currents, etc. I ran some capacity tests overnight with the Vapcell and Liitokala. Whenever I test a battery I put a little sticker on it with the capacity in mAh so I know what the last reading was. This morning, the four batteries in the Liitokala were fairly close to the last readings. In the Vapcell, slots 2&3 were quite close, but slots 1&4 were a lot lower than the last reading. The battery in slot 4 last time was around 1500 mAh, but now it's only around half that. Slot 1 is only showing 168 mAh, so that particular battery has either gone very bad or there's a problem with the charger. I'm going to do a test on the same batteries again to see what results I get. The Vapcell user manual says that only slots 1 and 4 discharge at 1A, so it seems that slots 1&4 aren't quite the same as slots 2&3. I don't know how significant this difference is, apart from the maximum discharge current. Regarding consistency, I never expect exactly the same readings, but I expect them to be in the same ballpark. With this game I have to try not to get too obsessive, which has happened before. It's easy to get caught up with getting the best performance out of each battery. Anyway, thanks for your feedback. It's good to share experiences and be aware of weaknesses with particular chargers.
Hola Muchachos, soy un viejo electricista y un entusiasta de la electrónica, sin ser un experto, pero buscando información por la web fue que decidí irme por el Vapcell S4 Plus y es excelente, suelo recuperar celdas 18650 para proyectos como linternas, altavoces Bluetooth y todo artefacto eléctrico que pueda ser alimentado con este tipo de voltaje. Saludos cordiales
My recommendation for over-discharged NiMHs: Use a charger with a low charge current setting because higher currents will lead to charger termination after a low capacity. Some chargers are have general problems with to early termination, worst of all Xtar VC4SL or VC4 Plus, but also Dlyfull T1 and it´s clones like Technoline, everActive etc. Recommendation are Dlyfull UT1, Skyrc NiMH-chargers, Nitecore UM(S)-series If the voltage of the cells are very low maybe an old Xtar VC4 or ISDT C4 EVO will give the first booth, both chargers start at very low voltage. But because both have also a problem with to early termination, a chnage to another charger is recommended. I get a few cells to work with these combinations, but the most cells have a much lower capacity than the same modells which were never over-discharged.
Many thanks for your recommendations. I know about some of these chargers, but I had not heard about Dlyfull. Last week, Vapcell sent me a replacement charger and it seems fine. I still seem to get the best results with my Powerex charger. Appreciate you sharing your expertise and experience!
How long does it take to test capacity on Vapcell? Testing 4x Eneloop AAA Ni-Mh 750mAh (that were lying unused for some years) and it's been 10h already and maybe soon finished...
If they haven't been used for years, it's probably best to do a repair. I used the Vapcell to repair 4 AAs recently, and it took just under 100 hours! It was the first time I'd used the Vapcell for a repair, and I couldn't believe how slow it was. When trying to do a repair with my Liitokala, it just stops midway. I bought another Powerex charger, and now I use the Vapcell and Liitokala very rarely because of the issues with these chargers. The Powerex does everything correctly, and it's fine for me because I only use NiMH AA and AAA. But yes, based on my experience, the Vapcell is slow.
@@PhilUKNet The test showed correct capacity of the batteries so maybe no repair is needed. What is interesting one of them showed 832mAh so more than designed... But maybe it's not correct. The charger couldn't finish. It was for a very long time 96% and 832mAh. So I stopped it because I had to go to bed and didn't want to leave it for the night. I will see about that one at the end of my project of testing all old batteries that I have. Vapcell is a new charger for me so I'm playing with my stock. Before I had an ordinary and old GP charger.
@hmm-m In one of the user manuals it mentions doing a repair if the batteries haven't been used for several months. As you suggest, though, I don't think this is entirely necessary. Some of my batteries have a higher capacity than their official rating. Then again, some are lower. They tend to vary quite a lot. The thing to do is match batteries. I put a little sticker on the batteries with their capacity after testing. I then use batteries together that have a similar rating. I often leave the chargers overnight. I don't think it hurts anything. In the videos I've done, people have raved about the Liitokala and Vapcell, while one guy was scathing about the Powerex. However, I've had these chargers for a while now, and I rate the Powerex highest. I need to try one of the SkyRC chargers as these get good reviews.
@hmm-m The SkyRC MC3000 gets very good reviews, but it's ultra geeky and too much for my needs. I was looking at the NC2500 Pro. I have the Powerex MH- C9000 (two, actually) and really like this charger. It doesn't show as much information as the Liitokala and Vapcell, resistance, temperate, etc, but it works really well, especially with batteries that have problems.
Great video phil Regarding vapecell when you get the error message hold mode button and it switches to repair and starts charging the battery. Tales about minute to show its charging I use skymc3000 and vapecell s4+ couldnt be more happier. Also i switch to them ladda batteries amazing value for money
Thanks for your comment, and thanks for the tip! I didn't see anything about that in the user manual, but I'll try it next time. I've learnt a lot from comments posted in my videos. I found out about Ladda batteries in a forum a few years ago and was quite surprised to find people recommending batteries from IKEA. There was speculation that they are the same as Eneloop, but quite a lot cheaper. Most of the batteries I have now are Ladda. If I decide to add a 4th charger to my collection, I'll look at the SkyMC3000!
@PhilUKNet good morning Phil, yeah definitely skymc3000 is a workhorse indeed fantastic charger can't fault it. Make sure to get v2 double fans though. Regarding the vapecell yeah Dennis owner. told me when I emailed about the same issue as you had works a treat [guessing they forgot to mention it in the user manual. I honestly can't fault them ladda batteries amazing value indeed I use a few enloops Pro here and there but 80% of my stuff runs ladda not 1 failure yet. Love the videos mate and look for more videos to come chap
@DarkStormPhoenix Thanks again! It's encouraging to hear that you got a reply from Vapcell. So many companies now have poor customer service and simply ignore customers. I also have a few Vapcell AAA batteries, and they're also very good with a high capacity. There's a huge problem with fake items where I am in Thailand. Most are quite convincing, and I suspect that many of the Eneloops I've bought online from Lazada are actually fake. That's one reason for buying Ladda. They're good batteries, and as I buy them directly from IKEA, I know they are genuine. I'm going to write your tip in the user manual so that I don't forget. Hopefully, Dennis will update the manual at some time. One other thing about the Vapcell is that the display backlight doesn't go off. With the LiitoKala, it goes off automatically after around 25 seconds, or you can turn it on permanently by pressing the slot 1 button. The Vapcell doesn't appear to have this option.
@PhilUKNet also he is nearly ready to release v3 new version of the vapecell s4+ he hangs out over on B-u-d-g-e-t l-i-g-h-t- forums Minus the dashes .! in there so it's all 1 word otherwise my comment i think would have been flagged. Fantastic wealth of information in there forums really nice guy dennis and others a community about chargers batteries etc. Yeah been duped few times with enloops in past also, Now buy from reputable site here in UK. Also agree with other commenter regarding litto bad experience with that company 3 times.
@@DarkStormPhoenix After receiving your comment, I did a search on 'Vapcell Dennis' and found that forum. I was impressed that he invites feedback, acknowledges it, and uses the feedback to do new designs. The comments I've received already about the Vapcell have been very positive, therefore, I would imagine that the forthcoming V3 will be a very good product. The Vapcell is my latest acquisition and I haven't used it as much as the other two. Your feedback has been very useful.
Thanks for the info. I only use NiMH, so I wouldn't know. Also, my Vapcell is broken. I sent it back to the distributor two weeks ago and still haven't heard anything.
Just like you, I got the Old Maha, Sanyo, Xstar, PowerEx, ditto so many chargers. And soon gunning for Liitokala 600. 🤭 Battery too, from Sanyo Eneloop now to Ikea Ladda.
I'm not the only obsessive, then?! I can also see myself buying more chargers in the future. I've been using all three chargers a lot this past week, refreshing and analyzing batteries that I've tested previously. I had a few strange results with the Vapcell, which gave me far lower readings than I expected. When I tested them again with the LiitoKala, they were fine. From the comments I've received, quite a few people rave about the Vapcell and I've had some negative comments about the LiitoKala, but the LiitoKala Lii-600 has always been fine for me. I've bought several different brands of battery in the past, but these days I usually stick with Ladda and buy them directly from IKEA. A lot of batteries I've bought on-line have been fakes, so I now try to buy them direct from the manufacturer to ensure I get genuine ones.
The Vapcell S4+ is the best bang for your buck you can get if you have more than a couple cylindrical cells, especially if you need to capacity test a bunch of 18650's/21700's.
I wrote off Liito Kala after I noticed my Lii-500S was consistently giving me 3400mAh on slots 1 & 4 for slightly used LG MJ1's and slots 2 & 3 consistently gave me about 3200mAh. If I took those same 4 cells and switched their slot lcoation 1&4--->2&3=identical results. So I knew it was charger related and it was a difference in the slots
So I tore the charger open and soldered a high quality Keystone cell holder with some thick silicone wires to the pads on the PCB that the spring loaded metal contacts attach to. Ran the same test and started taking some measurements. Found one interesting inconsistency. The discharge current on slots 2 and 3 when set to 500mA would only be 470mA. Slots 1 and 4 were a pretty solid 500mA. Maybe only 1 or 2 mA deviation. I didn't bother trying it with 250mA, I never use it.
I can't say that the Lii-600 suffers from the same defect but I would be surprised if they fixed the issue. My guess is that there is a difference between those sets of slots because 1 and 4 are capable of higher charging rate so possibly there is a difference in the components or the design of the circuit. However they designed slots 2 and 3....they fucked up. So the results I was getting from the Lii-500S from the 40 cells I had already tested went out the window because I didn't know which cells went into slots 2 and 3. I tested the results up against my EBC A20 and verified that slots 1 and 4 gave a fairly accurate reading. My EBC A20 has a ZKE Tech cell holder with four wire measurement
ZKE Tech cell sled/holder
goughlui.com/2021/01/17/quick-review-zketech-zke-battery-rack-4-wire-kelvin-aaa-aa-18650-test-fixture/
One of many stores selling it on Aliexpress. The price is so so. You might find it $2 cheaper
www.aliexpress.us/item/3256801833842358.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt
Thanks for your comprehensive comment. You obviously have more knowledge of electronics than I do. I haven't noticed any problems with the LiitoKala, but I don't really have the skills or equipment to do any extensive testing.
I bought the Vapcell on the recommendation of a comment I received, and generally comments regarding the Vapcell seem very favourable whereas I have received some negative comments about the other chargers.
Your information is appreciated.
@@PhilUKNet seems that my last comment deleted itself? TH-cam is strange.
The results can only be seen (and viewed with any confidence) if you run identical cells, preferably from the same batch, or two cells recovered from the same parallel group of a pack that hasn't degraded too much. The more they are degraded the more the difference could be between cells.
If you ever get the chance to run two or even four cells through the Lii-600 that meet those requirements please leave a comment here and let me know your results. I haven't found any reviews for the 600 complaining of this defect but I haven't really looked. I found 2 reviews of the 500S mirroring what I discovered which is what made me decide run my mouth on TH-cam and forums to let people know the 500S couldn't be trusted. Of course Liito Kala say these aren't precision measurement devices blah blah blah but its no excuse for not being able to properly replicate a circuit 4 times to give results that are quite similar and not have a 6% difference.
@@ericklein5097 TH-cam is a law unto itself. Initially, I didn't see your comment on my phone but it appeared later on my computer. A lot of my comments also get auto-deleted. It's very frustrating.
This battery charging business can be a headache. There are just so many variables involved and that makes it very difficult to do any meaningful comparisons. The brand, the batch, the age and condition, how many charge/discharge cycles, which charger, which slot, which mode, the charge and discharge currents, etc.
I ran some capacity tests overnight with the Vapcell and Liitokala. Whenever I test a battery I put a little sticker on it with the capacity in mAh so I know what the last reading was.
This morning, the four batteries in the Liitokala were fairly close to the last readings. In the Vapcell, slots 2&3 were quite close, but slots 1&4 were a lot lower than the last reading. The battery in slot 4 last time was around 1500 mAh, but now it's only around half that. Slot 1 is only showing 168 mAh, so that particular battery has either gone very bad or there's a problem with the charger. I'm going to do a test on the same batteries again to see what results I get.
The Vapcell user manual says that only slots 1 and 4 discharge at 1A, so it seems that slots 1&4 aren't quite the same as slots 2&3. I don't know how significant this difference is, apart from the maximum discharge current.
Regarding consistency, I never expect exactly the same readings, but I expect them to be in the same ballpark.
With this game I have to try not to get too obsessive, which has happened before. It's easy to get caught up with getting the best performance out of each battery.
Anyway, thanks for your feedback. It's good to share experiences and be aware of weaknesses with particular chargers.
Hola Muchachos, soy un viejo electricista y un entusiasta de la electrónica, sin ser un experto, pero buscando información por la web fue que decidí irme por el Vapcell S4 Plus y es excelente, suelo recuperar celdas 18650 para proyectos como linternas, altavoces Bluetooth y todo artefacto eléctrico que pueda ser alimentado con este tipo de voltaje. Saludos cordiales
My recommendation for over-discharged NiMHs:
Use a charger with a low charge current setting because higher currents will lead to charger termination after a low capacity.
Some chargers are have general problems with to early termination, worst of all Xtar VC4SL or VC4 Plus, but also Dlyfull T1 and it´s clones like Technoline, everActive etc.
Recommendation are Dlyfull UT1, Skyrc NiMH-chargers, Nitecore UM(S)-series
If the voltage of the cells are very low maybe an old Xtar VC4 or ISDT C4 EVO will give the first booth, both chargers start at
very low voltage. But because both have also a problem with to early termination, a chnage to another charger is recommended.
I get a few cells to work with these combinations, but the most cells have a much lower capacity than the same modells which were never over-discharged.
Many thanks for your recommendations. I know about some of these chargers, but I had not heard about Dlyfull. Last week, Vapcell sent me a replacement charger and it seems fine. I still seem to get the best results with my Powerex charger. Appreciate you sharing your expertise and experience!
How long does it take to test capacity on Vapcell? Testing 4x Eneloop AAA Ni-Mh 750mAh (that were lying unused for some years) and it's been 10h already and maybe soon finished...
If they haven't been used for years, it's probably best to do a repair. I used the Vapcell to repair 4 AAs recently, and it took just under 100 hours! It was the first time I'd used the Vapcell for a repair, and I couldn't believe how slow it was. When trying to do a repair with my Liitokala, it just stops midway. I bought another Powerex charger, and now I use the Vapcell and Liitokala very rarely because of the issues with these chargers. The Powerex does everything correctly, and it's fine for me because I only use NiMH AA and AAA. But yes, based on my experience, the Vapcell is slow.
@@PhilUKNet The test showed correct capacity of the batteries so maybe no repair is needed. What is interesting one of them showed 832mAh so more than designed... But maybe it's not correct. The charger couldn't finish. It was for a very long time 96% and 832mAh. So I stopped it because I had to go to bed and didn't want to leave it for the night. I will see about that one at the end of my project of testing all old batteries that I have. Vapcell is a new charger for me so I'm playing with my stock. Before I had an ordinary and old GP charger.
@hmm-m In one of the user manuals it mentions doing a repair if the batteries haven't been used for several months. As you suggest, though, I don't think this is entirely necessary. Some of my batteries have a higher capacity than their official rating. Then again, some are lower. They tend to vary quite a lot. The thing to do is match batteries. I put a little sticker on the batteries with their capacity after testing. I then use batteries together that have a similar rating. I often leave the chargers overnight. I don't think it hurts anything.
In the videos I've done, people have raved about the Liitokala and Vapcell, while one guy was scathing about the Powerex. However, I've had these chargers for a while now, and I rate the Powerex highest. I need to try one of the SkyRC chargers as these get good reviews.
@@PhilUKNet Yeah, my plan is also to have the batteries documented and labelled. :) Which models of Powerex and SkyRC?
@hmm-m The SkyRC MC3000 gets very good reviews, but it's ultra geeky and too much for my needs. I was looking at the NC2500 Pro. I have the Powerex MH- C9000 (two, actually) and really like this charger. It doesn't show as much information as the Liitokala and Vapcell, resistance, temperate, etc, but it works really well, especially with batteries that have problems.
Great video phil
Regarding vapecell when you get the error message hold mode button and it switches to repair and starts charging the battery. Tales about minute to show its charging
I use skymc3000 and vapecell s4+ couldnt be more happier.
Also i switch to them ladda batteries amazing value for money
Thanks for your comment, and thanks for the tip! I didn't see anything about that in the user manual, but I'll try it next time. I've learnt a lot from comments posted in my videos.
I found out about Ladda batteries in a forum a few years ago and was quite surprised to find people recommending batteries from IKEA. There was speculation that they are the same as Eneloop, but quite a lot cheaper. Most of the batteries I have now are Ladda.
If I decide to add a 4th charger to my collection, I'll look at the SkyMC3000!
@PhilUKNet good morning Phil, yeah definitely skymc3000 is a workhorse indeed fantastic charger can't fault it. Make sure to get v2 double fans though.
Regarding the vapecell yeah Dennis owner. told me when I emailed about the same issue as you had works a treat [guessing they forgot to mention it in the user manual.
I honestly can't fault them ladda batteries amazing value indeed I use a few enloops Pro here and there but 80% of my stuff runs ladda not 1 failure yet.
Love the videos mate and look for more videos to come chap
@DarkStormPhoenix Thanks again! It's encouraging to hear that you got a reply from Vapcell. So many companies now have poor customer service and simply ignore customers. I also have a few Vapcell AAA batteries, and they're also very good with a high capacity.
There's a huge problem with fake items where I am in Thailand. Most are quite convincing, and I suspect that many of the Eneloops I've bought online from Lazada are actually fake. That's one reason for buying Ladda. They're good batteries, and as I buy them directly from IKEA, I know they are genuine.
I'm going to write your tip in the user manual so that I don't forget. Hopefully, Dennis will update the manual at some time. One other thing about the Vapcell is that the display backlight doesn't go off.
With the LiitoKala, it goes off automatically after around 25 seconds, or you can turn it on permanently by pressing the slot 1 button. The Vapcell doesn't appear to have this option.
@PhilUKNet also he is nearly ready to release v3 new version of the vapecell s4+ he hangs out over on B-u-d-g-e-t l-i-g-h-t- forums Minus the dashes .!
in there so it's all 1 word otherwise my comment i think would have been flagged.
Fantastic wealth of information in there forums really nice guy dennis and others a community about chargers batteries etc.
Yeah been duped few times with enloops in past also,
Now buy from reputable site here in UK.
Also agree with other commenter regarding litto bad experience with that company 3 times.
@@DarkStormPhoenix After receiving your comment, I did a search on 'Vapcell Dennis' and found that forum. I was impressed that he invites feedback, acknowledges it, and uses the feedback to do new designs. The comments I've received already about the Vapcell have been very positive, therefore, I would imagine that the forthcoming V3 will be a very good product. The Vapcell is my latest acquisition and I haven't used it as much as the other two. Your feedback has been very useful.
but Lii-600 can not handle protected 21700, Vapcell can :-)
Thanks for the info. I only use NiMH, so I wouldn't know. Also, my Vapcell is broken. I sent it back to the distributor two weeks ago and still haven't heard anything.