Are Helmets Actually Unsafe After One Impact? Ben Cathro Investigates Myths About Helmets
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ค. 2024
- Do you really need to replace your helmet after every crash? Does MIPS system really work? Why do shell helmets get higher safety ratings than full-face? Ben Cathro answers the most commonly asked helmet questions.
Presented By: MET Helmets - www.met-helmets.com/en/bluegr...
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Hey Ben (& crew), thanks for the video. An interesting question would be to the DH racers who have a 'small' crash but definitely 'bump' their helmet on the ground, do they (or their sponsors) replace their helmet? For example, looking at the Les Gets carnage (so good lol), the youtube vidoes that show heeeeaps of crashes, how many of those helmets were replaced? Could be an interesting question to the racers in the pits some time in the future perhaps?
There's a mistake at 14 minutes. The graph should read Linear Acceleration on the Y-axis, as the test was not rotational, and the unit of measure is 'g' (linear) instead of radians/sec2 (rotational). Great video, my thesis was on this exact topic!
This is the best commercial for MET you could possibly imagine. I'm on the website and Amazon right now, and my next helmet will definitely be a MET one. Well done- I worked for a medical device company as an executive for years, and the company really care about patients and went above and beyond. This company really seems to be in the same camp: certifications are necessary and useful, but as much as they don't publish their results, they also are extremely proud to make the best, safest helmets. I love it. Makes me want to work for them-
MET Parachute is sht, to be honest, a couple of my friends got issues with the chin falling of on big impacts
All of us replaced our Fullface helmets after that
I can recommend POC for fullface stuff
@@ostankovalex1176i didnt have that experience, that helmet is very good i havent had a big impact with it yet tho
@@ostankovalex1176 on the other side i'm in my third parachute in 5 seasons, never had any problem with the chinbar, had 2 big nasty crashes on big jumps and it saved my face and head. I'm never buying from other brand other than bluegrass or met, even though i work on a company that imports leatt and smith and have the biggest discounts.
Having conducted my own tests on my own head I can safely say MIPS is one of the best innovations out there.
Until they claim that they can achieve the same effects with a simple padding : the mips air node…
Im not certain mips can save me. But it was worth a try. I went for the mips integra on my poc tectal race.
I just crashed today, I need mips surgery for my knees! I cant wear kneepads, those are for storm troopers.
Fox has a slippery liner that has similar effect on rotational impact, without being noisy
@@RiderP411 yeah, but lets see the test data
What a great video man, Pinkbike really put some real effort to this content! Great Job Guys!
Probably one of the most interesting deep dive videos ever! Very good stuff!
These are the questions and answers we're looking for. Fantastic video Ben Cathro and co! Awesome subject and amazing that Met opened their doors for this
as an engineer this is the most comprehensive and interesting watch I've seen. Awesome job.
thanks, really helpful info!
I replace my helmer after every whip
So you've just owned one helmet?
@@bighit32 He's never needed to buy one
Left and right?
Me too, got the same helmet since 1998
awesome video, this is proper demonstration of product development by MET. making sure that the product is truely fit for purpose on not just relying on the mandatory tests
Thanks Pinkbike and Ben. What an informative video. 🤩
Super interesting video! Cool to,see how perform each kind of helmet… 🙌🏻
Nice to see this, great work!
I've been mostly surprised by the windtunnel with heat convection.
Related to this: do they include CFD of helmets, road or bike from an aero-gains such as vent side?
How do they consider hairs in the vents?
Sorry might be too nerdy for most people...
Very cool and informative Video. Being in the market for a new lightweight fullface the bluegrass vanguard is top of my list right now.
How about testing a non MIPS helmet on a head form with a wig attached and comparing that to a MIPS helmet on the standard hairless head form?
Nah ah ah, Bell and giro along with MIPS did that, but they only test rotational on certain advantageous conditions. They have all the data but they can't release it...
As a survivor of a TBI (traumatic brain injury) sustained from colliding with a confused motorist and wearing a non-MIPS helmet, I was visited by two neurologists who specialized in bicycle injuries. Each specialist informed me that, following any impact to the outer shell of the helmet, the integrity of the polystyrene foam MUST be inspected before any future use as for a crack which compromises the structural design & purpose. Should any crank be visually seen or felt, the helmet is not longer functionally sufficient for another impact and said helmet is to be replaced.
Road helmets are the problem, get a downhill carbon fiber helmet and you don't have to worry as much, the polystyrene inner doesn't take much abuse at all, I have a Fox Rampage Carbon Pro and it's taken many hits with zero damage to the integrity of the helmet, it's designed that way for downhill racers, road helmets are 1 and done.
I just had a bad crash about a month ago. My head and shoulder took the brunt. My shoulder was fully dislocated and the rotator cuff was torn along with some ligaments and a fracture of the humerus head. I also hit my head and face when I went down but my TLD A3 did its job. Seems the MIPS worked.
Investigative journalist Ben!! So rad!
The description says "presented by MET Helmets", so it's paid promotion and Ben's not asking any questions they don't want answering. It's cool to see behind-the-scenes, but bear in mind it is still advertising
Haha, why is it performed by MET ? A manufacturer?
Why not by a independent Lab then? And also why do they test a helmet that had a massive crash? Most people are asking for a smaller smack to the helmet why you can only see scars on the outer shell. Not cracks. This is not really a answer to the question.
Concerning the question "how many g's until you die?". Get a look at the HIC (Head Injury Criterion). It's dependend on the time interval the g-forces affect your head. HIC above 1000 is critical.
They’re happy to tell us we can buy them, but not happy to tell us why (well 6D do, obvs). Anyway, having said that I’ve been saved from severe head injury by a full face (DH cert) twice and changed it both times. I’ve changed one damaged by hitting my helmet on a low branch which took out a chunk of the helmet once as well 😂 And all three had the signs Ben points out. I’ve changed two other non-full face helmets with damaged insides twice over the years too - but that was my fault for not caring for them rather than due to crashes. If I have a bump, then if all looks OK on close inspection, I keep the helmet. My last three helmets have had MIPS or ‘equivalent’ of one type or another and my last two have had dual foam to help with the minor bumps (and avoid replacement).
Ya DH certified full face is the only thing I'll wear, I love my Fox Rampage Carbon full face, feel so safe in that thing :)
Deep dives on lab testing procedures always peack my interest
It seems when comparing downhill and enduro helmets, the downhill helmets always have a lower peak g-force. A good example of a simple crash causing big damage would be Bernard Kerr in practice at Val Di Sole this year, just lost the front at low speed but hit his head on a rock which concussed him. A basic road helmet wouldn't have protected him at all whereas the full face helmet did.
Totally! I tell local kids to get a full face, they all see me whipping around in my Fox Rampage Carbon full face and they have some silly goofy top of the head crap on that won't help.
Yes lad, keep them coming ✌️
If you're questioning the integrity of your helmet, invest in a new one. The cost of being wrong about it is too high in a pursuit where your next crash is inevitable. They're consumable items. The down side is, over a lifetime you might spend a little too much money preventing the brain injury you never suffered.
Watching this makes me glad I chose a MET for my first full face!
I'd love to see those tests performed on a "head" without a helmet, and superimpose the force graphs...
9:21 MIPS-segment neurobiology overview 10:08 Cathrow under-states 'tugs on the strings', whereas the illustration shows broken neural connections.
I got all hyped about the MET helmets then saw the helmets do not have a bee net in the vent holes. An absolute must in my experience. It reduces air flow but too many friends have been stung on the head while riding.
I have a few Troy Lee helmets and the weight difference between my SE5 carbon(moto) D4 carbon(bike) is only a 200g heavier so I always end up using my moto helmet at the bike park.
Exactly, most people are too concerned with "but it's too heavy and hot" rather they should be concerned with the automobiles that are being driven by people looking at phones. I rock the Fox Rampage Carbon Pro full face, it's the shizznit.
Loved this video! Mote like this please! ❤
So a cracked helmet still easily beats the standard with a direct hit to the damaged area. So either the standard is not good enough or the structure can take a lot more than we usually assume.
Not to say not to replace after a heavy impact, but probably a good reason to not worry while riding on crashed helmet until a replacement arrives.
Helmet standards likely suck. Based on FortNine's testing, most safety standards are pretty vague/not very representative
Maybe the 'standard' is for lower-speed, mom-and-pop riding, and not the hauling-ass speeds for which the helmets tested above have been designed-? Maybe wearing a crashed helmet, while waiting for its replacement, could wisely be ridden far more cautiously, if at all.
@@mcspikesky the only thing you need to know is that if the helmet can crack, your skull can crack. Anything beyond that, sure you can argue.. but other than that, it's nonsense.
So what's the answer, do you always replace your helmet when you hit the ground and see some cracks? Even if small? From the data it seems that it is not always necessary.
As a side note, my helmet saved my life last week. I have just crashed in a forest, landed on a hard earth surface, it was usual fun MTB XC (not downhill) ride. The impact made 4 cracks inside of the helmet on the back left side of it. Without the helmet I would definitely went out and I would had no skin and hair on my head as the helmet was scratched there as well. My whole back-left body starting from collarbone to shoulder, elbow (the worst), back, and pelvis suffered. Surprisingly there was almost no impact on legs. Now, magically, my sport t-shirt had almost no holes, even though underneath it some parts of the skin were gone : O This might sound odd, but when I hit the ground a thought appeared in my head as how soft the helmet is, the MIPS worked and I recommend having it.
You, friend, would be wise to replace your now-cracked helmet.
20:03
Road helmets are the problem, get a full face downhill carbon fiber helmet and you don't have to worry as much, the polystyrene inner doesn't take much abuse at all, I have a Fox Rampage Carbon Pro and it's taken many hits with zero damage to the integrity of the helmet, it's designed that way for downhill racers, road helmets are 1 and done.
I love the thought of falling @ speed and colliding with mother nature only to think. Wow this helmet is cushy!
At least until the pain sets in...
@@masaharumorimoto4761 I second your statement. As a kid I had so many crashes into my black pro-tec. By the time I retired it, it was the foams age that was the problem, perhaps from the sun? My motorcycle helmet has survived 2 decades so far.
One guy mentioned going smaller if youre between sizes...and Id like some elaboration.
Id love to hear if the fit system, padding sizes, and shell size affects the impact data. Like, if you wear your helmet super loose, or buy oversized, does that increase acceleration due to the gaps between the head and shell? Do FF or half shell helmets benefit from an adjustable fit system, or is 3 thicknesses of foam padding enough?
In a word, Yes. A larger helmet will create more rotational acceleration of the brain, as there is a larger torque created during impact. Imagine a short spanner vs long spanner with same load doing the tightening. The long spanner creates more torque at the nut. Not imagime that nut is at the centre of your brain, and the impact point is the end of the spanner. This is why he said small helmet rather than large. This is only for rotational acceleration though, linear will be the same either way
The straps are a crucial point because, if they are poorly adjusted, they make the helmet ineffective, as it won't be stable on the head during impact. During certification tests (e.g., roll-off tests), the adjuster is often not taken into consideration and, in many cases, is left almost open. Essentially, it is not the element that plays a focal role in passing the test.
300Gs is a huge amount of acceleration! I'd have a hard time calling a helmet that is at 299Gs "safe". They may not want to reference them but studies have found that concussions can happen at 80Gs... Where is the push to improve standards?
considering all the pro riders who suffer concussions are wearing helmets when they crash, yeah, you'd think there's more work to do
Helmets are not intended to stop concussions, they are there to stop skull fractures and traumatic brain injuries. All that the rotational energy dispersion technologies (ie. MIPS) are doing is adding an extra layer of rotational energy dispersion, akin to what our meninges do inside of our skull. This reduces the likelihood of axonal shearing injuries, though not by much. There is a very fine line between the helmet being soft enough to dissipate forces but trapping the skull and imparting significant rotational torque on the head and neck, and it being hard and "slippery" so that it doesn't twist the neck but also doesn't cushion the skull.
That's a good question. A helmet should ideally be able to handle lower- _and_ higher-force/speed impacts.
Downhill, bike park, enduro, XC, and road rides all have countless speeds at which accidents and collisions can happen, therefore a wide range of linear and rotational Gs should be accounted for.
TLD has dual-density + MIPS; 6D has different and more-sophisticated (and physically larger) solutions...
It's not obvious how to choose, but this is clearly a good time to be a rider, and to inform oneself as to which helmet to buy (and fit).
... I'll offer that a higher level of physicall fitness, in terms of flexibility and agility, can reasonably better help avoid hitting one's head:
Watching bike crashes as a longtime martial arts, yoga and fitness guy (instructor-ranked and generally analytical), I often see riders positioning their body in frankly unfortunate [to not say un-trained] postures.
By practicing falling in no-joke 'quality' Japanese martial arts classes, for example ('ukemi', as a searchable category) can absolutely work to more-probabilistically help keep the skull off the ground in a lot of types of falls.
Yoga classes can help support that by allowing the body a greater range of motion, toward helping the body lengthen more in a number of directions, to... at best, help collect the body and bike back on-line, or at worst, help keep the head off the ground in a crash.
In my decades of experience in riding fast and keeping relatively injury-free, the periods when I've had a higher base fitness from agility- [martial arts] and flexibility-based practice [yoga], I've had greater success in getting back on-line, and keep my head away from obstacles/the ground.
Styles vary by instructors' interpretation and skill, eh--It's a challenge, but absolutely possible to find quality ukemi and fitness instructors: It is a very good time for access to well-trained, analytical instructors, and quality practice.
Japanese jujutsu and its derivatives, Judo, Aikido, etc. are generally focused on developing stabilty and the ability to crash without injury.
Regular yoga practice helps develop strong core/spine support, and whole-body flexibility/'finding length' when needed, for more cat-like ability to take on positions to help re-balance, or support ukemi ['receiving flow', at the risk of over-nerding this--hopefully in a helpful way, as it's been paid forward to me, which is my intent].
And the people and atmosphere are generally refreshing.
I can imagine that gymnastics is also extremely well-developed, but may fuether increase the risk of concussion in practice (like some martial arts styles, clubs, practice partners--who are often clearly dangerous and avoidable).
Anyway, I wish you and yours a lifetime of healthy, satisfying, and sustainable riding.
find the podcast with the guy from 6D helmets, talks about riders and concussions a bunch
If they improve the standards how are they going to sell you overpriced foam?
A chin guard saved my life when it dug into my chest on a direct head landing. Prolapsed 2 discs in my neck but would have snapped it had i not been in a full face. Worth noting i probably would have walked away if i was wearing a leatt neck brace. 12 months in, neck fused and new full face waiting for when i get the all clear to ride again.
How about carbon shell vs plastic shell?? Or did I miss it??? I’ve always replaced a helmet every 5 years w/o a crash. Was this addressed too??
Mines an Oneal Backflip... really good lid.
Awesome video, hugely interesting! Makes me wanna buy a new helmet, mines 6 years old (but still fine?)!
would you ever put an ARTEC manifold on the BARRA mustang?
damn I love Ben Cathro
I crashed recently and got a concussion. I was second guessing myself if I need a new helmet, but I ultimately bought a new one
I just got a Bell helmet at Target with MIPS.
My helmet has 2 crashes under its belt now. Today i was turning hard and braking on the front, my front end slipped on some sandy grit. I crumpled into the curb head 1st on the sidewalk...
Last time i was riding no hands between some poles, one jumped out and next thing both poles were playing ping pong with me and the bike!
Its been a rough month...
Anyone know how a Troy Lee D3 holds up?
I would have liked to see a test how much the mass of the helmet+head increases the risk for damage to the neck. Lots of videos around where the first impact knocks the rider out and then the head just raggdolls around with the neck being bent into extreme positions. Maybe the next video is to a neckbrace manufacturer? Being paralyzed from the neck down due to a high speed otb is my biggest fear…
MIPS is good for regular riding. As for DH no, every DH helmet I have ever owned that had a MIPS system in it, was broken with in 6 months. Hard crashes complete failure. One year my nephew had bought an expensive American brand helmet. I had bought a non branded Taiwan helmet. When we showed up at the mountain both us were changing & adjusting padding. His helmet nice and shiny glossy (paint). Mine flat black. The first thing we noticed was the helmets were the same. But not only were they the same, you could tell by the scarification inside the helmet that they had also come from the same mold. Same material but a $250 dollar difference. He was pissed. (Usually I buy my helmets from reputable manufactures, but that year money was tight). I wonder what helmet Jimbo was were during that crash at hard line. 😖
I wonder how a Engineer-s own helmet would look like, if cost and designed for production viability, was not an issue, and focus was only on safety ?
If safety was the only issue, they’d look a lot like modern football helmets - tons of thick padding. But those helmets are super expensive, bulky, and get very hot so they’re not practical for long bike rides
Its good to see these tests and the impacts they can take but when your head is in the helmet i am not sure the impact would be the same as generated test, maybe the should use dumies as they do for car crash tests, awkward drops heavy landings etc
Gen 1 Rampage Carbon Pro, still rock solid, hand laid fibers, I think they made Generation 1 at a loss cuz this thing has been a dream, turbo light and incredibly strong.
22:28... you can't see me...
Hmm. Manufacturers say we need to replace after every crash, or fear devastating harm. Makes sense.
Manufacturers sell you MIPS but they won't agree in a recorded or written statement that there's any proof that it's safer than regular cushion...
Including MIPS themselves
@@LaurentiusTriarius Likely because of the possibility of litigation. Does MIPS or other tech help in the event of a crash? Yes. But its hard to give a blanket statement about safety when every crash is so different. For example, falling from a couple feet off the ground vs a big drop. At some point the energy from a crash introduced will exceed what is possible to protect against. When does this happen?... Hard to say because there are infinite variables. Being critical of data is important, but i'm happy that brands are trying. Helmet tech was stagnant for a very long time.
Got a spare head laying around, have you? 😂
20:03 for re-testing of an already-crashed helmet
11:50 "If 59 cm head is between medium and large sizes, for example, which woud you choose?"
"The smaller one."
but no follow up reasoning
@@mauort6870 The smaller helmet is going to have less mass, so therefore less rotational force.
@@davekussbut rotational forve is not the problem rotational acceleration is the problem a heavier helmet will not change the rotational accel so this can not be used as an argument
I had the same issue with my recent purchase of th POC Kortal Mips helmet. Wore both and went with the smaller one, simply because I felt the nearly 80 Gramm of weight difference (17% reduction in weigt) would make a difference on rotational forces. Also the smaller helmet fit my head better with glasses on and there where less air gaps on different places.
It's also because the helmet shell is larger, so the torque created at centre of brain is slighly larger from a comparable rotational impact. Imagine torque created from short spanner vs. Long spanner with same force applied. Larger shell is like a longer spanner to create a torque
If manufacturers/reviewers/even youtubers say the truth, which is - more often than not it's perfectly safe to keep using your helmet after a crash (unless the mechanism was severe, or there's something obviously structurally wrong with the helmet), it's just a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Someone will crah using a helmet that has been crashed previously, and if they hurt themselves, they will sue, whether the injury had anything to do with the fact that helmet was reused after a crash, or not. "They told me it was safe to keep using my old helmet!".
If the manufacturer is asked the question, the only possible answer is "replace the helmet after a crash".
Every crash is different, and there are freak crashes, that should never cause the damage they did, so unable to test each end every helmet after a crash, this is the answer you get.
Only you know, how hard you crashed, and if it was a direct impact, or a glancing blow (that's if you can remember the crash. If you can't - replace your helmet 😆😆). You should be able to tell. If you want someone else to tell you - and take responsibility (this is the important bit), then the answer you get is always the same.
That place looks like an underground lair in a Bond film! Be cool as a penguin's tootsies to work there.
Had 4 good crashes with mine, came away with a couple of scuffs unlike my body 😂😂
Why fox fluid gone?
For liability reasons helmet companies will always say replace after one crash. I never do that and just inspect my helmets regularly. Thankfully I haven't had a real bell ringer in a very long time.
What about those helmets that use koroyd ? Instead of eps
Company should give warranty..not everyone is able to buy helmet after every crash..🙂👌
Hi, we know that replacing a helmet, especially if you've bought it recently, can be frustrating and difficult for many. However, in terms of safety, it's what we recommend. MET and Bluegrass offer a crash replacement program which provides a 50% discount on the purchase of an identical helmet after you submit a crash report and a valid proof of purchase!
I replace my helmet after every crash or at the 3 years mack if its not bin in a crash as £300 to £500 for a helmet is appsolutely nothing to me then having a crash that makes me a burden on my family or dead because my helmet has failed do to a previous crash or that its old and weaked do to age
All that money in a factory and such. Just make more shell sizes so people can get a true proper fit.
Everyone now buying MET/Bluegrass helmet.
One crash or a big crash
Would be interested to know if there are gender-specific tests. I know with safety testing for cars, medical kit etc it took decades before generalisable anatomical differences were taken into account.
Whether they are or not to limit liability they are are going to make the claim their void as a safety device.
Is carbon worse than none. As carbon won’t crack as it’s stronger and surly transfer more energy to your head?
Every time I crash, I replace my head,...
Big helmet
C'est la chaîne TH-cam de luca dacosta ou bien
I had a troylee stage helmet resting on my handlebars i bent down to go under some bunting ,the helmet slipped off and hit the ground from knee height,the chin bar broke in 3 pieces ,what a shit helmet
Ive crashed hard in my 100 dollar fullface coundless times, it looks like someone went over the paint with sandpaper but it holds up so maybe cheaper helmets without all that technology are better for the long run?
咖喱味😂
Of course the MIPS is going to say your hair won’t do the same……it’s just a marketing thing too
Buy a Leatt helmet, get cheap replacements 👌
They didn't answer the question at all for why they don't publish the raw data. He just says someone else does the certification. 6d publishes raw data. They could too but choose not to. Why do they choose not to?
Well you know why and make a good point. Legal worries.
@@Coolcmsc
I'm not sure I follow the negative legal implication. All they need to do is say we ran this test. This was the result. As long as the test is repeatable they should have nothing to worry about. And if the test is not repeatable... Then either it's not a good test or there is something wrong with the helmet that's allowing it to go out of spec
The tests between companies wouldn't be comparable. All those testing machines are different, some of them are developed in house. So you would have to test helmets from different companies, to be able to correlate the results.
Leatt show there test data. As far as i can see there the only company to do so. Thats why i bought one
@@Rob-qo6md
There are standardized tests. If the machines are properly setup there should only be minimal machine to machine variation. The whole point of a standard is that it's repeatable.
If one company has a test they think is better... Publish how to run it and explain why it's better to get the competition to adopt it.
Put ya hat on before you step on the paddles be safe,ish
Wear full face kids, it's not worth your teeth being smashed out!
Well I know that generally it is not wise to take conclusions from a single test. But... if a absolutely smashed helmet provided only 30% worse protection, then it is quite safe to assume that unless there is any visual damage, there is no need to replace the helmet. I mean even if there would be a few % difference I may as well buy a new helmet model that is less safe than the one that got hit.
Only 30% worse? Only? 30% is a lot when its protecting something you cannot replace. Remember, standards do not mean you won’t feel the difference.
That first impact (the base line test) records just under 200G, the second impact records just over 250G.
Do you really want to subject your head to an extra >50G just to save money on a helmet?
What it does demonstrate is that the certification is woefully low. If death is 369G, then the minimum pass rate shouldn't be so close at 300
Well I’m not saying that anyone should ride with a helmet that is smashed like that. The point I tried to make is that if a catastrophically damaged helmet still provides some protection, then a helmet that doesn’t have any visual cracks should be quite a bit safer, maybe to the point where it is safer than a potential replacement (as still many helmets aren’t rated and all that is known about them is whether they pass a given certification threshold). But it would be helpful to know what the g forces in this test are w/o a helmet.
I'll never understand cyclists who don't wear full face helmets. Road cyclists seemingly only want to protect their scalp.
Can’t eat or drink easily.
I'll never understand why not all MTB riders wear high end skin suits. Seemingly, they like to be slowed down by wind.
@@SonnyDarvishzadeh In racing, those skin suits are banned in mountain biking in downhill, enduro and cross country. They also look ridiculous, offer no protection and are too tight to put armour underneath.
I also wonder that, I ride full face everywhere, it's too dangerous, cars are whipping around, drivers looking at phones...
They strap those helmets down on those headforms with a force that would choke a person :D MIPS still a scam 🎉
If I shave my head bald and smear Vaseline inside my Helmet is that the same as using one with mips?
Would be interested to know if there are gender-specific tests. I know with safety testing for cars, medical kit etc it took decades before generalisable anatomical differences were taken into account.