7.62x39 Ammo Selection
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- Paul tests several different ammo brands for 7.62x39 to see what is best.
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Brad Nelson - minutemantheory.com
Part two of this presentation is now online.
Totally off topic, can you do an underhood video of your roadrunner or email me some pics? I'm restoring mine and need something to reference too. Thanks .
Paul. I hope this comment makes it to you as I have a good idea for a video. Underwood 45 super ammo underpenetrates in Ballistics gel tests by alot even though it creates 618-694 ft lbs of energy depending on the grain you use. On average, about 8 inches into gel and that's it. Can you do a meat test regarding regular 45acp hollow points and underwood or Buffalo bores 45 super hollow points and see if the underpenetration Translates into real world effects(maybe it wouldn't do anything to the "ribs on the back" but absolutely destroy the "watermelon lung tissue". Or it might jut shatter the ribs on the front and do minimal damage to the rest since it flattens out soo quickly in the gel. Would love to see it.
@@deadlyalliance8281 I don't have a firearm to shoot .45 super.
@@PaulHarrell got ya! Thanks for the reply man! It's such an interesting round given how it acts In gel(the Nosler bullets) Compared to how much energy it produces. I'm sure it would destroy the meat targets but... Who knows!
Paul, I love how you casual handle ammo as you talk about t
Paul is the only person that's allowed to say "it's not me it's the ammo"
Uh, sorry. Since Paul got poor groups, I feel better about myself and can now say, "Hey, it's the ammo."
Distinguished Rifleman, shooting prone. With a second chance. - Yes it is the ammo.
@@guysmith1134 It absolutely is. I've tinkered with a few brands of 5.56 and was frustrated I couldn't hold decent groups. I'm surprised he wasn't shooting 2"-3" groups - I didn't think all those ammos had that much variance.
I shoot mostly handguns these days, and at ten yards I've never found enough variance to say it wasn't me. But maybe even those groups are partly ammo.
Last autumn, I pulled out my 357 with a 6-1/2" barrel and shot some old, old ammo that I used to hand load. At 15 yards off-hand, the first cylinder had five shots in a 7/8" x 7/8" group, and one flyer 1-1/2" above that which I know was me.
I can't begin to do that at 7 yards with any autoloader I have or factory ammo. Maybe factory ammo variance is worse than I thought.
Well I certainly wouldn’t be allowed to say it🤠
@@keithgraham9547 10 yards... Bro, I can shoot dimes with 80+% accuracy with a FREE airsoft pistol that was included in the bucket of cheap ammo at that range! I can hit flies from about 10 ft away with 90% success rate of splattering them. That's without rifling, with cheap high variation light weight (semi-hollow, so they have air bubbles off center on them) BBs. Of course you won't see ANY variation at that distance. And no I'm not a good shot with a pistol either, that's just such a close range you can't miss, and if you do its entirely user fault.
To see ammo variation you have to have bullet time in flight, and with .22 even that's 25 thousandths second, so if there is even a 10% variation in speed (and time), that's 0.002415" in height drop variation at 30 ft. Not .22", no its .0024", so 1/100th the diameter of the .22 bullet.
To whomever sent all that ammo to Paul. I appreciate your sacrifice to the pool of knowledge.
Kinda throwing me for a loop as to how they had such a variety yet tulammo was nowhere to be seen
@@steallydan5849 ammoseek
Was was wondering if Tulammo was going to make an appearance. Geco is another brand, though haven't seen them around lately in 7.63x39 though
Definitely gets a POB.
@@steallydan5849 All my Tula is unfortunately already in mags/drums. What Tula I have still boxed is in a sealed tin, Red Army Standard Branded, and of their 'Range Safe' jacket material which is rather rare and thus not really relevant. However the Wolf could have been Tula Cartridge Works but we didn't get a look at the labeling on the back of the box for the TCW stamp or the headstamp on the case. Wolf can be a few manufacturers. I handed him the Barnaul cuz that's what I thought was the best baseline steel case ammo to compare to.
It was well worth the sacrifice. He gave me a shirt for for range days. I actually gave him one or two more so there might be a second video with some from his own supply. I'd actually been building up this variety over just the last two years with the question of 'is there brass 7.62x39 _that's worth the reach_'. When he said he was going to be at a gun show at Polk County fair grounds I figured it was time. Well, I think that question has been put to rest for me. I'm glad I have as much Igman and PPU as I do and only a few boxes of that Fiocchi and Norma. I kinda had a feeling how that Fiocchi was gonna go. What with the 9mm Ball comparison I think there's a pattern forming on Fiocchi. Had hopes on the Norma considering their reputation. Disappointing but I'm glad I let deals on that slip by.
Hey Paul, I know you passed away.
I will miss your future content, as always thank you for the information you’ve made available to us all 😢😢
I'm really glad to see the Pop-Tarts sponsorship continuing. I think more breakfast cereal and snack food companies should be sponsoring gun channels.
Is it actually a sponsorship? I thought it was a joke.
@@ThyCorruptor I have no idea. I think it's a joke. I'm just joking about the joke. Call it a meta-joke if you will.
@@Fudmottin it’s a parody of the Camel ads from the 80’s that say “where a man belongs” that show shots of a man in outdoor places doing manly stuff while smoking Camels.
@@frost214ify Based I think on the "I've eaten Pop Tarts that were more than 6 years old" line from an old vid
@@ThyCorruptor Close enough for me. I haven't eaten Pop-Tarts since I was a kid, and then only rarely. I'm going to get some.
As someone who mostly has 7.62x39 rifles, this video brings me great joy.
But my top 3 brands of 7.62x39 are not represented here! Still a great video, though.
@@nedrain9044 Should've tried to get ahold of the Chinese corrosive surplus for a baseline. Are those still banned down there in the US?
I was always a .223 and .300 guy until I bought a Cz bren 2ms in 762x39. I hog hunt so put down power is important for me. I never had trouble with accuracy with 762 and it's way better at dropping hogs quick.
@@TokyoSeventeen Only banned from import. Likely always will be, unless it's been stored for more than 20 years in a third country. Nothing like clear and logical rules, lol!
For me? I'm not picky so I grab what is ever on the shelf back when Walmart use to sell ammo. Winchester White box 123 grain and Tula steel case 123 grain.
In my years of shooting almost everytype of 7.62x39 ammo out of many SKS/AKs Ive found the most consistantly accurate to be Barnaul.
And it’s cheap too.
I’ll second that
I've noticed that the Wolf Polyformance bears the Barnaul headstamp. In my rifles it performs far better than the Wolf Performance ammo which in my experience is usually stamped "Tula" or "Wolf", though not so well as Barnaul's own offerings.
@@billh.6529 Wolf is just a brand not an ammo factory. They'll buy ammo from any factory and put it in their boxes
Sorta how Norinco was for chinese ammo
@@creamiegoodness 🤫
"Tactical" in this case is pure marketing, and Paul schooled us as usual! Great teacher!!
I suspect you might be onto something. Ivan: this ammo batch is awful. Ivan the marketing specialist: no problemo, we label it tactical!
S&B Tactical looks like some of those bullets came in sideways, or tumbling and printing with a large hole, instead of just a nice round hole. That S&B Tactical is terrible. I do wonder though, those rounds were shot at the end of his shooting session, which means that barrel was nice and toasty. One would think a hot barrel would affect accuracy, but not make the round tumble. Anyways…
Isn't all ammo Tactical?
@Rockwell Rhodes So a hunting round can't be used tactically?
@Rockwell Rhodes What creature are you hunting though?
Thank you for keeping Paul's excellent videos up.
The quote casually dropped at 18:30 is why I love Paul's work. Clear, consistent, to the point, and always a good listen.
“People keep on using the term ‘tactical’, I don’t think it means what you think it means.” Inconceivable!
Something to add to the Paul Harrell cinematic universe lore… he likes The Princess Bride. The man has taste 🧐
I had a sneaking suspicion "tactical" ammo was only good for short range. This video seems to support that.
So much of it is what your rifle likes. I get good results (about 1.25 moa) with the s&b tactical out of my single shot. Not as good as lapua match (sub moa), but definitely not bad at all.
Suitable for IDPA you mean? Tactical is CQB?
"tactical" is for indoor use only!
I always figured tactical was industry shortform for mixed lots and factory seconds.
I was worried about the chronograph's wellbeing with some of those 'tactical' rounds.
I've come to believe "tactical" is a word you hang onto something to try to make it more sellable.
@@bubbajones5905 Rings true in my experience.
I had the same thought.😂
Me too!
Well he was doing the accuracy test at 100 yards, and chronograph test at 7.
Paul, I really appreciate what you do for our community. You are the "everyman" shooter. I truly enjoy your channel, and I never miss a video. Thank you very much.
Indeed. Zero hard a$$ BS, all experience. Can't beat it.
same
He's a wee bit better than average in marksmanship -- and across quite a few different platforms, too. "Everyman" firearms owners mostly own & collect, rarely shoot, almost never train, but take sweet pictures of their collection, their "clones," etc. which, again, never really get used.
Pretty much the opposite of Mr Harrell.
But I get your point, there's no bravado & no flash, and when he's funny he's definitely funny, our host.
I have to say that i simply adore how thoroughly you tested this ammo, it's hard to find videos that compare a good variety of ammo and at a reasonable range.
Would be a very long video to test ALL of them lol. I think he's sticking with the lower brands cause that's what most folks buy these days.
•“Mil spec”, w sealed necks and primers lacquer; Barnaul (wolf military classic) or Vympel (GT).
•Barnaul lacquer; brown bear Barnaul brand
•Barnaul poly (wolf MC or polyformance)
•Tula poly either Tula or Wolf marketed.
So according to this the only Wolf made by Barnaul is Military classis and polyformance, anything else is supposedly Tula in a Wolf box. If anyone else knows otherwise please let us know. This is from the AR15 forum from a year ago.
As a scientist myself, it’s so refreshing to see the scientific method being applied to show us practical real world results under real world conditions. In my opinion this is a great relief from most other channels which do so much talking and tacticool shit, but not showing these type of valuable comparisons. Thank you Paul and crew! 🔥
Science gang unite, I’m repping physics and chemistry here
@@nicknaylor9895 haha nice! I’m in the field of Cancer Biology but my favorite subject in physics was Kinematics because I would always think of it in terms of ballistics. 😂
@@joseceja8783 most of the kinematics homework questions I ever did involved launching something, although profs would never say guns or cannons
@@nicknaylor9895 Well, in nuclear physics, we launch tiny stuff at relativistic speeds into other tiny stuff so all of us can relate to that.
Yay. Chemistry and physics here.
I've found barnaul, tula, and red ops (vympel) tend to be fairly accurate. I believe the problem with accuracy comes from inconsistent loading of powder at the various factories. And with that, I was taught that you should always sight your AK for whatever specific ammo type you'll be using. Thanks for the test Paul
Isn't vympel fmjbt, and how does maxxtech 7.62x39 shoot?
@@williejohnson1732 yes the 124 grain is fmjbt. I've not had much of the maxxtech but if im not mistaken it's a rebrand of another manufacturer, as much 7.62x39 is.
@@williejohnson1732 maxxtech appears to be made by vympel also. I really like vympel because it's sealed and lacquered. Just make sure you always know whether they're corrosive primed or not. The red ops and maxxtech are non corrosive primed
Well, you should always sight your [insert gun name here] for whatever specific ammo type you'll be using. That's just good practice.
@@williejohnson1732 i use tula and red ops
Now we need to send him a bolt action chambered in 7.63x39 to test the same ammo in another action type. Great video as always Paul. 👍
When looking at Russian imported ammunition, it's important to note that some importers bring in batches from different manufacturers. Wolf, for example, brings in ammunition from both Barnaul AND Tula (tulammo). The manufacturer's information can usually be found on each box. Last year I purchased ammunition manufactured by Barnaul, Tulammo and Ulyanovsk all in Wolf boxes.
The most common manufacturers are Tulammo, Barnaul, Vympel, Ulyanovsk, and Novosobirsk. The biggest importers are Wolf, Red Army Standard (Century Arms), Tulammo, and Barnaul.
I'm curious who made your batch of Wolf ammo. I've had the best results with Barnaul, but that small box looks like Ulyanovisk to me, which I've also been disappointed by.
Tula is actually a manufacturer and not just an importer?
I'm mostly curious what the reason for 122, 123, and 124 grain ammo is. Seems like the 'good' stuff is usually 124 and 122 is usually tula garbage.
@@randomidiot8142 yes. Tulammo is a popular importer but also a manufacturer. Their symbol, "ТЛ", can be seen on boxes and headstamps. They also occasionally use the entire name as a headstamp. I purchased a case of Wolf 9mm back in 2019, and the headstamps all said "Tulammo", and the back of the box had a small "ТЛ", indicating it had been manufactured by Tula and Imported and sold by Wolf.
* Výmpjel; Uljjanóvsk.
p.s. Barnaül. Which stands for Bar-na-úl. Not «Bar-noul».
several different plants also.
Wolf polyformance tends to be tula. Military Classic is usually Barnaul.
The Belom ammo is brass with reloadable boxer primers and comes in excellent plastic boxes........ at least it did a few months ago. It also was priced very fair. I'm glad to see the results in this video.
Belom is my favorite, I also shoot their 9mm.
@@WsAPsycho
Yep, they have quickly become one of my favorite ammo manufacturers.
The PPU brass is said to be good for reloading.
@@thetooner8203
I just fired a bunch of PPU 10mm FMJ and JHP a couple of days ago and every round was perfect. You can't beat it for the money.
I can usually get only the Belom in the brass with no steel jackets for those days at the range. Not cheap for x39 but it shoots really well
Paul making a princess bride reference makes my life complete.
Just noticed that too.
Finally!! Paul employed the technical term “sucks” as pertains to accuracy!! 😎
I love the poptarts ad's at the start, short gets to the point that's what I want in a ad. More brands should advertise with you.
Paul Harrell grows on a person interested in marksmanship. Speaks softly and hits with a big stick!
Paul, making this video to compare a lot of different 7.62x39 ammunition is very useful and informative. I want to thank you for that. However, I have to give you a huge Thumbs Up for your tenacity in continuing to put out such well made videos sometimes in conditions I, quite honestly, would not have went out in. As always, I look forward to ALL of your material.
Sometimes it feels great to be out in the rain, I make a point to go outside for a bit when it does.
Only thing missing was some old crusty surplus corrosive ammo and that spread would've matched the pile of ammo sitting in my safe at home!
Shame we can't all chip in and send some ammo back to the viewer who sent all this stuff in.
You may not get to choose the conditions in which you fight, it's why me and my buddy spent more days than I can remember out in the 90+degree heat to get some good training in. Not as much rain or winter shooting, but you get the point. Do I think Paul sees it like that? Probably not, just seems like a guy that generally enjoys being outdoors.
Haven't you heard, if it ain't raining we ain't training.
Finding a 100 yard indoor range can be a challenge. ;>)
Dealing with "field conditions" is good practice for when you need to shoot outdoors and can't choose the conditions.
Thank you for taking the time to do this very informative video. I always enjoy your presentations and look forward to each new one.
Very interesting, Would love to see Paul do an accuracy test with different types of 223/556 ammunition out of the new Zastava M90 rifle.
Same. I’d love to know practical accuracy with an experienced shooter
I've been looking for one of those M90s everywhere, they sell like blinis!
I have an ancient Mitchell Arms import M70 (sort of) and M77B1. Two of my favorite AK's. Still trying to find an M90 without a scalper price tag.
I'm sure you can. Just send him (via FFL of course) a new Zastava M90 and a bunch of the ammo you want him to test :D
send him the rifle and 1000 rounds I bet he would do it :)
A very interesting summary of various brands of 7.62X39 ammunition. I think it points out some of the quirks in the AK platform. The weapon was never intended to be a target rifle but a battle instrument that put high emphasis on being rugged and reliable at the expense of some accuracy and the same can be said for the ammunition.
Would love to see a comparison between older surplus ammo and modern ammunition. Not necessarily 7.62 , any caliber. Might be interesting to see the numbers and accuracy compared.
Awesome content as usual.
Let us give a thanks to the viewer that donated the ammo👏👏👏👍
Amen.
I learned that when some ammo company calls their newest offering "Tactical", I should beware.
You can really see the correlation between the standard deviation between rounds and accuracy.
I agree. It would like to see the standard deviation listed with average velocity. It would also show if the velocity from different brands were significant.
i was actually appalled by the extreme variance some showed... 250 FPS difference IS enough to make a difference.
See AKOU for their test which includes standard deviation.
the look of joy and excitement in this guy's eyes at the beginning when he's holding all those boxes of ammunition is priceless.
Happiness is full pockets of ammunition.
Any time Paul posts , I feel a wave of relief and calm .His voice is relaxing and his presence reasuring .
Gaaaay
In not sure if he's a psycho or just really cool.
Heh..... GAUYYYYYYYYYYY
p.s.- that voice is pretty reassuring.
@@therocinante3443 both maybe
And an unexplainable desire to eat Pop Tarts…
The pop tart box kills me everytime! What’s the story behind it?
I also want to know this!
@@matthewwagner4042 me too
If I remember correctly, a couple years back he joked about getting sponsored. He had a pop tart in the pocket of his jacket when discussing a camping or survival situation.
Something like not taking everything he needed, got lost, but at least he had the pop tart.
From what I understand its a point of him not having sponsors and not selling out. He makes note of this in a video calling out product shills. There could be an episode Im missing, however the last I saw that applied to pop tarts would have been that one. In any event, its hilarious Paul does it every episode now.
He is mocking shills.
Damn...I think the ejected brass has greater range than the bullet! Love AK brass throwers!
First time I fired my mak90 at range I went to police my casings and couldn't find them, I admittedly was expecting them to be in a similar location as my AR would toss. Nope, those steel cases were a good 4 to 6 yards away and well forward of the firing line. I fired a couple of rounds and watched where they went to find the first ones. 😂
I'm in Boston. I caught a piece.
My mini-30 was a great brass tosser. I replaced the gas port with a smaller one and that at least kept the brass in the same county.
I use the Fiochi just to get the brass cases, then reload them from my cache of Zombie Max bullets.
@@mikespangler98, my Mini-30 really slings the empties too. Haven't swapped the gas bushing yet, but it's on the list. Try some of the PPU ammo if you get a chance, the reloaders I know rave about the quality of the brass.
It seems like it's raining in about half of your videos. I appreciate you taking another one for the team!
Thank you very much for your effort$ to supply us with interesting ammo-info.
Take care and shoot safely!
I feel like "sellier and belliot Tactical" is a way of selling the stuff that didnt pass QC. I think SandB is usually pretty good though. They do contract for NATO ammo production
they just know if they slap the word tactical on it people will buy it up.
I've shot S&B 7.92 x 57 for years. Has always worked very well.
In my opinion tactical ammo means range ammo.
In the context of their 54R, the tactical is little bit hotter but far more reliable
I'm so glad Paul Harrell has crapped on AK lovers, so if you're looking to sell to me at a deep discount let me know. Imports only no wasr-10s please
Ammo companies call their ammunition "tactical" because it requires you to use clever tactics to make up for the ammo's lack of accuracy.
Lmaooo
Honestly if you just called it blem people would buy the absolute fuck out of it
Paul just pulling boxes out of his pocket and saying what he's got in his hands without even looking is just pure badass
Paul I really enjoyed your in-depth test of all these different brands of 7.62x39 ammunition. I must agree with you not all 7.62x39 is equal, even the ones that’s made in the same country. IE the Silver Bear, Brown Bear, all the different Wolf versions and the Barnaul which is a favorite of a lot of shooters. With all the variations in velocity and points of impact, I’ve found when I change from one brand of ammunition to another I always rezero my AKM. Now in this test you couldn’t do that. Your test also showed that the velocity printed on the box may not be obtained. Thank you for all the hard work.
My Preferred 7.62x39 round is the wolf 125 grain soft point 👍
Gets me the most consistent effect at range over a HP
Yeah in this caliber the 125gr soft point is where it's at.
Before the world went crazy I managed to get a case of 125gr silver bear soft point.
Good accurate for an AK stuff, sadly 😥 hard to find now.
Fouls a barrel quicker but the soviets get down and dirty to begin with.
@@derpherp4530 I have an ak with a 16" barrel and a shorter gas system and oddly enough even after 100s of rounds the action is way dirtier than the barrel. I think the extra gas blows all the fouling out of the barrel 🤣
Its ALL about the golden tiger 124 fmjbt baby
@@SugarMilkbro that's the intention
I have been waiting for a video like this. I shoot a wide variety of AK variants and a couple of other types of 7.62x39 rifles.
I can say, the type and brand of rifle can make a huge difference in accuracy and performance. My Norinco rifles work decent with Wolf, and love Barnal. However, my Hungarian prefers S&B. Either way, not all ammo might not be the same, neither are rifles, nor manufacturers. There's a huge variety in variables.
Awesome video. I hope you do another based on a few different types of ammo, but also different rifles.
Thank you for running this fine experiment. It would be interesting to see a CZ 527 and an SKS used as well.
My worst 5 shot groups from my CZ 527 carbine with a 4X scope are far better than Paul's best group here with his WASR.
If I use the grenade launcher gas shut off setting on my Yugo SKS and run it as a straight pull bolt action, it's nearly as good as the CZ. Using SKS as a semi auto doubles group size but geoups are still better than anything Paul showed here. SHOOTING IT WITH IRON SIGHTS.
Paul needs to get an actual AK of decent make, (with a fixed stock!) and repeat this test. Possibly he needs to mount a scope and use some sand bags off a bench while testing too.
The velocity testing certainly didn't inspire confidence in several of those ammunition manufacturers, however, Paul's WASR needs another rifle (or several!) compared with it. His testing methods also need to be considered.
@@Bert2368 it does show between the ammo and rifle why so many don't think the cartridge can perform very well.
@@randomidiot8142
Understood. I was clued in by a Paco Kelley article that it wasn't the CARTRIDGE's fault.
When I got the CZ 527 carbine in 2008 and test fired it, I found it shot slightly to the left. So I stopped on the way home and asked the gunsmith at a small gunshop to help me drift the rear sight. When he heard the caliber, he refused to do so, telling me that with the cartridge it fired, not worth the effort! I asked what they had for 7.62x39 ammunition? He sneered "nothing, we don't DO AKs". A dozen kinds of AR, G3, FAL hanging on their walls, no AKs, right enough! I left and didn't ever go back. Dakota Custom Guns, Lakeville MN. They're out of business now- Wonder why?
@@johnwalker3263
For a truly BAD group, I ran across a couple of boxes of Remington 7.62x39 factory ammo in the old yellow-ish boxes for cheap at a gun show. Worst groups EVER. I took the last few rounds apart to see what was going on- They had been loaded with .308 Dia. bullets.
@@johnwalker3263
It gets even crazier, Ruger shipped Mini 30 rifles with .308 groove Dia. barrels until around 1993. They DID have a gradual transition area at throat from .310 down to the .308 bore.
I love the objectivity! Thank you for the videos you produce with the data you provide from results you achieve!
The 7.62x39 cartridge's massive size compared to its medium power make it an excellent utility round for strange russian ideas such as nuclear bullets or HE projectiles in a smaller package. Definitely interesting experiments that make a rabbit hole for those interested.
if one were so inclined ;)
Can you imagine if those nuclear bullets were actually real?
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine I can understand the thought process.
Someone asked the question of "how do we give our infantry anti-tank/anti-bunker capability without having them carrying a large rocket, tow a gun or do something silly like run up to something with multiple machine guns with a satchel charge?"
And before anyone could even bring up the engineering, cost and the logistics of having the commissars (we don't really trust) having a dozen or so bunker busters that can be loaded into a magazine, a smart fella said, "Comrade, this is Soviet Russia, have you seen the size and quantity of our artillery?"
Thanks Paul for the very interesting study. It confirms my belief in Barnaul ammo. I find anything Barnaul is good to go. I would have liked to have seen a few more in the mix, like Golden Tiger, MFS, and Winchester, but I'm sure that would have made the video a bit long. Leaves room for another video.....Cheers!
I’m sure most people who are watching this video already know this but just in case; Wolf is an importer, not a manufacturer of ammunition. They import and market both Barnaul and Tula, among others. The Wolf black box 122gr ammo is Tula, what Paul was shooting. The Wolf beige camo box, sometimes labeled “military classic” or something like that, is Barnaul. Tula is literally bottom of the barrel ammo, but it works. Barnaul is considered by most to be the cream of the crop as far as steel cases ammo goes. Personally I can hold a 3” group with my Type 56 SKS using Barnaul
I'm new to the channel and I do appreciate passing on experience I look forward to learning a lot and thank you for helping me choose my first firearm, I've been watching a lot of your videos to make an informed decision.
I really do love this man, my favorite gun TH-camr hands down
This is very topical.
Thank you, Mr. Harrell!
Thanks for bearing with the rain, light snow, soggy range, and eventual clear weather to bring us this great comparison, Paul. You stayed mighty dry & clean despite all that prone firing. Covered bay, or Paul's improvised hide?
One of the issues is not just that the ammunition that is inconsistent but also the rifle you used. I had a wasser 10 and it shot horribly ,shots went wider as the barrel heated up . Shooting WOLF ammunition out of a Russian VEPR with a bull barrel and my shots remained tight and consistent. Out of a PSA KS47 hybrid and again with Wolf ammunition my shots are even better than the Russian VEPR. Unfortunately while the WASSER is reliable it doesn’t hold accuracy very well. My guess is the lightweight barrel. Thanks for all you do. I find you to be the most credible source on TH-cam
Laughed out loud @ "This group sucks." It's not the line, it's the delivery. 🤣🤣🤣
There’s something so soothing about raindrops and gunshots. Love it.
Kinda like a self made thunderstorm, heh
Final Cowboy Bebop episode vibes
It would be interesting to see a comparison between an AK and an AR chambered in 7.62x39.
I have both. My CMMG mutant shoots miles better than either my AES10-b or my WASR10-UF. Consistent 2in groups from the AR, consistent 4-5in groups with the AKs. Both using Barnaul green box. Mind you, i enjoy shooting and manipulating the AKs more, but in terms of accuracy the AR has more going for it mechanically. Also the AR was more than twice the price of either AK, but is made well and has a good reputation for reliability.
@@ninja393 This pretty much makes sense. Though higher quality AKs with really good barrels can possibly achieve as close performance. 9 Hole Reviews did their own testing on various AKs and calibres, their best 7.62x39 gun was the Galil ACE Gen 1, albeit they had good results from their Saiga AK-103.
@@ReapingRose115 Oh no doubt. I've been eyeing up a KUSA 103sf, but i want to see how they do with long term reputation before dropping that much money. The Galil ACE is another good option, but im not a fan of the looks. Too Chunky
I have used Barnaul ammo for years,also in competition. Here in Finland best ammo and cheapest.
I love the “princess bride” quote at 18:43
I just bought a Ruger American 7.62x39 with a 4x16 Athalon. This weekend it was shooting +/- 1" to 1.5" groups at 100 yards with Wolf 122 gr. HP. I was pleased to say the least. My WASR is similar to Paul's.
The X39 round can be stunning out of a bolt gun. A guy at my workplace has a CZ 527 with a 4-12 scope. I've seen groups he's shot with factory ammo you could easily cover with a silver dollar, & groups of his own reloads that do even better. He's taken quite a few deer with it, & uses it to keep the coyotes off his acreage. The pelt of one of them is on the wall in his man cave, a full-furred, mid-winter monster he dropped at a lazer-measured 186 yards. Makes me itch to own one.
It would be interesting to see more premium ammo out of the AK, underwood, cor bon, Hornady, etc.
I agree. Some people only shoot the cheapest stuff and then write off 7.62x39mm as simply not an accurate cartridge, but with good ammo it can be as accurate as any comparable round, and I like it when that's demonstrated.
Hornady Black with the SST ammo makes my SKS about 2 MOA with a rear peep site. Fantastic ammo. I would imagine a good AK would be about the same.
Surprised he didn't review federal ammo
I have three standard 16-inch AKM's, and they all shoot totally different groups with the same ammo; it just the nature of the design.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine It’s a combination of things. The vast majority of rifles chambered in 7.62x39 are non free floated piston guns, which are inherently not going to produce amazing groups. Typically, standard iron sights are being used as its harder to mount an optic when compared to other platforms. The ammo most commonly available is by and large cheap steel cased ammo. Lastly, factor in that its a slow moving, ballistically inefficient round with limited realistic range, and you start to get an opinion that 7.62 isn’t all that accurate.
With my CZ527 I get sub moa groups with Hornady SST all day long.
For my Galil ACE 7.62x39 and Zastava ZPAP M70, I do have a very good group on Barnaul 123 or 124 grain at 200 yards.
The belom 9mm I got is some of the best factory ammo I’ve had. A case is pretty reasonable especially for the quality. Bass case, & primers that are sealed. 124g ball, it’s very accurate in my 320x5
“Minute of pie plate” Pretty standard fare for Mikhail’s peasants rifle. Paul, thanks for enduring the weather and sharing this video.
I absolutely love how he reads the numbers out. The mundane sound of his voice to the sudden “surprise” sound of his voice when the numbers do weird stuff, LOL!!!
Hope you get to test out Yugo M67 milsurp 7.62x39 in a part two of this test since it’ll be one of the top choices when the Russian ammo dries up. Golden Tiger & Winchester white box would be nice to see too if you can find it. Barnaul being the best doesn’t surprise me at all though. Thanks for the quality info and entertainment as always Paul.
Always test out ammo in your guns to find out what they like best 👍 great video Paul
Pay attention to the headstamps on imported AK ammo. I’ve opened spam cans of wolf made mainly by bernaul
What a fantastic and comprehensive comparison. Hopefully this video spreads across the algorithm.
Again you are really pointing out how Ammo makes the difference. Now and before I know why I prefer my own reloads carefully done. Many don’t realize how the accuracy is affected. Very much appreciated!
Glad to see the Barnual do so good. It's the most consistent ammunition in my CZ 527 with same spot cold bore shots every time.
"Man I hate it when hot shells land on me"
*Pauls WASR* I got you
Paul, I am happy to see that you enjoy Pop Tarts also. They were a favorite of ours in the squad bay back in the day in the Corps. Semper Fi
Two things: One, if you’re sponsored in anyway (or just showing support for) Pop-Tarts, that’s fucking awesome! Love those bastards.
Two, based on the thumbnail, I thought you were rocking a new hair cut. I didn’t see that those were muffs. 🤣
It wold be interesting to see if repeating this test with a different gun would make significant change. Using a CZ 527 for instance would give the other end of the spectrum as far as platform.
My Cz527m gets .75 to 1.5" groups at 75 yards with: old and new tulammo, wolf, barnaul,norinco,hornady black, and tulammo 154gr SOFTPOINT.
Im starting to wonder if this 154gr soft point stuff i have isnt unicorn food. I never see anyone test it and its really hard to find nowadays. Glad i stocked up when i did because my ak loves this stuff and it is great for hunting.
There is one gel test out there, it looks like a killer.
My SKS loves the Tula 154gr.
I did a few water test with it. It’s good to go.
I have some 154gr soft point stuff. In my SKS with a scope mounted on it it’s very accurate. My other SKS doesn’t like it so much but I find with that one, no matter what ammo you put through it, it’s strictly minute of deer accurate at best.
I bought 10 boxes of it on sale years ago. it's not bad accuracy wise out of my CZ527 carbine, does not feed well for first two rounds from the CZ magazine though.
I hunt with handloaded 7.62x39 using Hornady SST 123gr. from that CZ527 anyhow, ammo which holds under 1" for 5 rounds at 100 yards. It is also about 150fps faster than standard AK food and I would NOT fire this load from a semi auto rifle.
Awesome, thx for the comparison!
Btw... Here in Europe Barnaul 7.62x39 often comes with steel core penetrators shredding metal targets and going through metal backstops (the ammo is also fully sealed and delivered in wooden crates) thus we assumed its really military surplus ammo sold here.
Always enjoy an opportunity to see how Paul performs that underarm rifle presentation
I feel a bit vindicated in my choice of Barnal Ammo, and I'm surprised Paul didn't have any TulaAmmo on hand...Great Presentation, Always👍👍👍
The tactical ammo wasn't amazing? Inconceivable!
That was interesting, especially the velocity variations with some ammo. Takes me back. Many years ago, when one of the cheapest hunting guns was a crudely sporterized WWII surplus rifle, I had a .303 that liked 180 grain Federal. When I couldn’t find that, I learned 180 grain Winchester shot bigger groups, and 180 grain Remington had a different point of impact. I never forgot. I don’t doubt the .303 in the safe today would have different preferences. This was a great demonstration that, with the wide variety of 7.62x39 out there, whatever we buy needs to be tested in the gun in which we plan to use it. Thanks, Paul!
Especially since even in minute of bad guy, some of the ammo he tested was way off of center for that rifle he used. Makes one wonder where in conflicts these people fighting don't get a chance to sight in their weapons to ammo provided and sources may be inconsistent in non military contract provided instances.
Hey Paul, thanks for shareing your knowledge.
Barnaul is one of the best 7,62x39 cartridges for reasonable money. Acceptable accuracy + velocity up to 770m/s out of 420mm barrel. Lacquered case is preferable, not polymer coated.
Really good information. Paul, how much do you think that information ( group size, standard deviation) would have changed if you had used a Ruger American Bolt gun? Lots of folks starting to use those on hogs and deer. And I'm REALLY curious about the 154 grn SP ammo for hunting out there...Thx for what you do Brother!!
It would be interesting to see the results with a serious target rifle like the Ruger or a Remington 700, but the vast majority of 7.62x29 ammo is shot through AK platforms.
I just love how the tapco furniture on the WASR are like a time capsule of early AK modification.
Thanks for going through the variables.
I do know that the Belom ammo is good for at least 1 thing. I converted 100 of the brass cases to 6.5 Grendel when I couldn't find factory Grendel brass. Worked great
In all the testing I've seen of 7.62x39 Barnaul has been consistently the most accurate of the bulk steel ammos, often equaling or beating more expensive brass ammo.
What ak do you have
I shot many different AKs and AKMs some captured in 67 and 73 and none would hold a very tight group like a A1 at 100 yds, even a good Dragunov is in reality a 2 or 3 moa gun.
I felt the same wY until a bought a zastava zpap92. It’s a tack driver and just as accurate as my bcm’s at 50 yards. I have a romy g which is like a 5moa gun at best 😂 my mak90 is fairly accurate and my Arsenal is decent as well. But my zpap is surprisingly accurate and has changed my opinion on an accuracy
@@rmossman88 oh some variants for instance rk 62 in 7.62 ×39 are minute of angle guns,I am referring to old cold War era and before general Warsaw pact issue rifles in 7.62 × 39.
Thorough and scientific, as always
I bought CZ527s and Ruger Americans in 5.56, 6.5 Grendel & 7.62x39 to clarify the validity of the ammo itself vs an autoloading platform.
I'd honestly love for you to test all of these.
Always enjoy your presentations.
Side note: my brother is endeared with you. You made a personal call to him for his birthday in 2022, I think. He was insensed yesterday when he walked into a shop and none of the staff knew who you are. I thought that was comical; he thought it was outrageous. I had to remind him that not everyone, even afficiandos, sits and surfs gun and ammo tests all night.
Keep up the great work!
Paul that latest mass shooting in Sacramento has some curious video from multiple sources, and it looks like no one took your advice on what to do if someone starts unloading with a gun. Over 40 shots fired and people are standing up waiting to be hit and seemingly taking no evasive protective actions. Some did run but many seemed to be frozen in fear.
One of the body’s natural responses. Fight, Flight, or Freeze.
Why run or duck for cover?
It is CA,they have strict gun control.
You can't get shot, someone would have to break the law to shoot you.
Besides, they defunded the police and hired social workers. If someone does start shooting, a social workers runs up and offers the shooter a hug, and stops the shooting.
Which incident were you referring to exactly? You mind pointing to, link(s), please?
Based on previous experience with other calibers that PPU makes, I expected far better.
Not here to bag on you or argue, but I've yet to have a good experience with ppu ammunition except for in Makarov caliber. My guns just do not like it for some reason
@@SugarMilkbro It is good to get differing perspectives. It is also good to know the ammo each gun prefers. My Mosin likes S&B standard the most, the Axis, Winchester, etc etc.
@@SugarMilkbro I've had good experiences with PPU with 6.5 carcano, 7.62 nato, 32 auto, and 357 mag. Certain calibers ppu shits the bed in, such as 10mm and 7.62x39 or 54. Nothing against the brand, just for some reason they can't get those calibers right
@@jacobackley502 ahh see I've got none of those calibers beside 7.62 nato. I've had good luck with Walmart carrying Winchester white box m80 in that caliber
I've mostly had the PPU wait was what was coming into LGS. I've used it in my AR-15 and M1 Garland, not noticing any issues. Though I've not run either platform thru an accuracy test yet.
Little Mandy Patinkin Princess Bride reference there put a smrik on my face. This was very informative.
As always; a quality presentation with mostly scientific testing and a sprinkling of humor
For those wondering tulammo hollow point annihilated 2 pigs at about 75 yards just last weekend for me during a night hunt. Put them flat on their ass with only one round each. It was shot out of a PWS AR style gun though so that may have improved accuracy a bit I don’t know though, don’t have an AKM to compare it to.
Once again, I sit through all that 'tedious' stuff :) I appreciate you doing it!
The Princess Bride reference was simply brilliant.
Out of all things that you did in this video, You fired an AK variant with a tubular folding stock (Stock wield)? at 100 yards, I believe you did quite well and excelled in some of the brands of ammo you tried. I also take into consideration that you used the battle iron sights as issued with the rifle. overall you did a realistic demonstration. -Dave
I love this comment, and it beckons a real discussion. How many TH-cam channels are testing ammo and optics using equipment and rifles that far exceed the average budget? Or unrealistic conditions with unrealistic expectations? That's why I love Paul's channel. It drips with practicality.
@@Vecto_Vindictus it also drips with water!
Barnaul steel case FMJ, my SKS eats it up.
Edit: Happy to see it preformed well in the accuracy test.
If you can find the hp or sp it seems to shoot even flatter. I think they're loaded slightly hotter
@@SugarMilkbro Yeah, the softpoint preforms like a HP as well from what I've seen, at a more affordable price.