Totally off topic, can you do an underhood video of your roadrunner or email me some pics? I'm restoring mine and need something to reference too. Thanks .
Paul. I hope this comment makes it to you as I have a good idea for a video. Underwood 45 super ammo underpenetrates in Ballistics gel tests by alot even though it creates 618-694 ft lbs of energy depending on the grain you use. On average, about 8 inches into gel and that's it. Can you do a meat test regarding regular 45acp hollow points and underwood or Buffalo bores 45 super hollow points and see if the underpenetration Translates into real world effects(maybe it wouldn't do anything to the "ribs on the back" but absolutely destroy the "watermelon lung tissue". Or it might jut shatter the ribs on the front and do minimal damage to the rest since it flattens out soo quickly in the gel. Would love to see it.
@@PaulHarrell got ya! Thanks for the reply man! It's such an interesting round given how it acts In gel(the Nosler bullets) Compared to how much energy it produces. I'm sure it would destroy the meat targets but... Who knows!
@@steallydan5849 ammoseek Was was wondering if Tulammo was going to make an appearance. Geco is another brand, though haven't seen them around lately in 7.63x39 though
@@steallydan5849 All my Tula is unfortunately already in mags/drums. What Tula I have still boxed is in a sealed tin, Red Army Standard Branded, and of their 'Range Safe' jacket material which is rather rare and thus not really relevant. However the Wolf could have been Tula Cartridge Works but we didn't get a look at the labeling on the back of the box for the TCW stamp or the headstamp on the case. Wolf can be a few manufacturers. I handed him the Barnaul cuz that's what I thought was the best baseline steel case ammo to compare to.
It was well worth the sacrifice. He gave me a shirt for for range days. I actually gave him one or two more so there might be a second video with some from his own supply. I'd actually been building up this variety over just the last two years with the question of 'is there brass 7.62x39 _that's worth the reach_'. When he said he was going to be at a gun show at Polk County fair grounds I figured it was time. Well, I think that question has been put to rest for me. I'm glad I have as much Igman and PPU as I do and only a few boxes of that Fiocchi and Norma. I kinda had a feeling how that Fiocchi was gonna go. What with the 9mm Ball comparison I think there's a pattern forming on Fiocchi. Had hopes on the Norma considering their reputation. Disappointing but I'm glad I let deals on that slip by.
@@guysmith1134 It absolutely is. I've tinkered with a few brands of 5.56 and was frustrated I couldn't hold decent groups. I'm surprised he wasn't shooting 2"-3" groups - I didn't think all those ammos had that much variance. I shoot mostly handguns these days, and at ten yards I've never found enough variance to say it wasn't me. But maybe even those groups are partly ammo. Last autumn, I pulled out my 357 with a 6-1/2" barrel and shot some old, old ammo that I used to hand load. At 15 yards off-hand, the first cylinder had five shots in a 7/8" x 7/8" group, and one flyer 1-1/2" above that which I know was me. I can't begin to do that at 7 yards with any autoloader I have or factory ammo. Maybe factory ammo variance is worse than I thought.
@@keithgraham9547 10 yards... Bro, I can shoot dimes with 80+% accuracy with a FREE airsoft pistol that was included in the bucket of cheap ammo at that range! I can hit flies from about 10 ft away with 90% success rate of splattering them. That's without rifling, with cheap high variation light weight (semi-hollow, so they have air bubbles off center on them) BBs. Of course you won't see ANY variation at that distance. And no I'm not a good shot with a pistol either, that's just such a close range you can't miss, and if you do its entirely user fault. To see ammo variation you have to have bullet time in flight, and with .22 even that's 25 thousandths second, so if there is even a 10% variation in speed (and time), that's 0.002415" in height drop variation at 30 ft. Not .22", no its .0024", so 1/100th the diameter of the .22 bullet.
I was always a .223 and .300 guy until I bought a Cz bren 2ms in 762x39. I hog hunt so put down power is important for me. I never had trouble with accuracy with 762 and it's way better at dropping hogs quick.
@@TokyoSeventeen Only banned from import. Likely always will be, unless it's been stored for more than 20 years in a third country. Nothing like clear and logical rules, lol!
For me? I'm not picky so I grab what is ever on the shelf back when Walmart use to sell ammo. Winchester White box 123 grain and Tula steel case 123 grain.
S&B Tactical looks like some of those bullets came in sideways, or tumbling and printing with a large hole, instead of just a nice round hole. That S&B Tactical is terrible. I do wonder though, those rounds were shot at the end of his shooting session, which means that barrel was nice and toasty. One would think a hot barrel would affect accuracy, but not make the round tumble. Anyways…
Always much appreciated when someone takes the time to timestamp these videos. You are a gentleman and a scholar, as my dear departed Dad would say. GrassyAss
Paul, making this video to compare a lot of different 7.62x39 ammunition is very useful and informative. I want to thank you for that. However, I have to give you a huge Thumbs Up for your tenacity in continuing to put out such well made videos sometimes in conditions I, quite honestly, would not have went out in. As always, I look forward to ALL of your material.
Only thing missing was some old crusty surplus corrosive ammo and that spread would've matched the pile of ammo sitting in my safe at home! Shame we can't all chip in and send some ammo back to the viewer who sent all this stuff in.
You may not get to choose the conditions in which you fight, it's why me and my buddy spent more days than I can remember out in the 90+degree heat to get some good training in. Not as much rain or winter shooting, but you get the point. Do I think Paul sees it like that? Probably not, just seems like a guy that generally enjoys being outdoors.
Finding a 100 yard indoor range can be a challenge. ;>) Dealing with "field conditions" is good practice for when you need to shoot outdoors and can't choose the conditions.
I've noticed that the Wolf Polyformance bears the Barnaul headstamp. In my rifles it performs far better than the Wolf Performance ammo which in my experience is usually stamped "Tula" or "Wolf", though not so well as Barnaul's own offerings.
@@billh.6529 Wolf is just a brand not an ammo factory. They'll buy ammo from any factory and put it in their boxes Sorta how Norinco was for chinese ammo
@@Fudmottin it’s a parody of the Camel ads from the 80’s that say “where a man belongs” that show shots of a man in outdoor places doing manly stuff while smoking Camels.
Paul, I really appreciate what you do for our community. You are the "everyman" shooter. I truly enjoy your channel, and I never miss a video. Thank you very much.
He's a wee bit better than average in marksmanship -- and across quite a few different platforms, too. "Everyman" firearms owners mostly own & collect, rarely shoot, almost never train, but take sweet pictures of their collection, their "clones," etc. which, again, never really get used. Pretty much the opposite of Mr Harrell. But I get your point, there's no bravado & no flash, and when he's funny he's definitely funny, our host.
we really need an additional title card for Paul being sponsored by Hurtenberger-Buscadero Ticondas, the definitive Carry ammo you can't afford to shoot.
I have to say that i simply adore how thoroughly you tested this ammo, it's hard to find videos that compare a good variety of ammo and at a reasonable range.
Would be a very long video to test ALL of them lol. I think he's sticking with the lower brands cause that's what most folks buy these days. •“Mil spec”, w sealed necks and primers lacquer; Barnaul (wolf military classic) or Vympel (GT). •Barnaul lacquer; brown bear Barnaul brand •Barnaul poly (wolf MC or polyformance) •Tula poly either Tula or Wolf marketed. So according to this the only Wolf made by Barnaul is Military classis and polyformance, anything else is supposedly Tula in a Wolf box. If anyone else knows otherwise please let us know. This is from the AR15 forum from a year ago.
So much of it is what your rifle likes. I get good results (about 1.25 moa) with the s&b tactical out of my single shot. Not as good as lapua match (sub moa), but definitely not bad at all.
I must say, I would often go to the range and shoot my AKM and SKS at 100 yards, and shoot 10-12 inch groups, shooting bench rested, 1 shot per second, and would be quite dissatisfied with my performance, but seeing Paul not shoot way better than that with half these ammo types, gives me some perspective, that I wasn't completely at fault with my groups I may have been getting. I would mostly shoot WOLF ammo in these cases too.
@@martiniversen4898 Ironically, my Russian Tula 1953 made SKS isn't that good, maybe 7" groups, but that could be me also not helping. Better than my AK variant though by far.
BigRick, I've put seventeen different brands & types of ammo through my Ruger Mini-30, & Wolf was hands-down the worst. FMJ, hollow point, soft point, lacquer case, polymer case, didn't matter, always disappointing. For inexpensive ammo, I've had far better results with Brown Bear & Silver Bear ammo, which are made by Barnaul. Much better accuracy, fewer fliers, & more consistent point of impact. Others have done ok with Wolf, but for most of the shooters I know, it's the ammo of last resort. Rifles are only as good as what they're fed, so try a better grade of fodder, & you may be quite pleasantly surprised how much better you shoot.:)
As a guy who films for a living, I appreciated the intro where Paul is actually framed up somewhat nice rather than using a wide angle go pro from like 15 feet away.
As a scientist myself, it’s so refreshing to see the scientific method being applied to show us practical real world results under real world conditions. In my opinion this is a great relief from most other channels which do so much talking and tacticool shit, but not showing these type of valuable comparisons. Thank you Paul and crew! 🔥
@@nicknaylor9895 haha nice! I’m in the field of Cancer Biology but my favorite subject in physics was Kinematics because I would always think of it in terms of ballistics. 😂
I've found barnaul, tula, and red ops (vympel) tend to be fairly accurate. I believe the problem with accuracy comes from inconsistent loading of powder at the various factories. And with that, I was taught that you should always sight your AK for whatever specific ammo type you'll be using. Thanks for the test Paul
@@williejohnson1732 yes the 124 grain is fmjbt. I've not had much of the maxxtech but if im not mistaken it's a rebrand of another manufacturer, as much 7.62x39 is.
@@williejohnson1732 maxxtech appears to be made by vympel also. I really like vympel because it's sealed and lacquered. Just make sure you always know whether they're corrosive primed or not. The red ops and maxxtech are non corrosive primed
The Belom ammo is brass with reloadable boxer primers and comes in excellent plastic boxes........ at least it did a few months ago. It also was priced very fair. I'm glad to see the results in this video.
When looking at Russian imported ammunition, it's important to note that some importers bring in batches from different manufacturers. Wolf, for example, brings in ammunition from both Barnaul AND Tula (tulammo). The manufacturer's information can usually be found on each box. Last year I purchased ammunition manufactured by Barnaul, Tulammo and Ulyanovsk all in Wolf boxes. The most common manufacturers are Tulammo, Barnaul, Vympel, Ulyanovsk, and Novosobirsk. The biggest importers are Wolf, Red Army Standard (Century Arms), Tulammo, and Barnaul. I'm curious who made your batch of Wolf ammo. I've had the best results with Barnaul, but that small box looks like Ulyanovisk to me, which I've also been disappointed by.
Tula is actually a manufacturer and not just an importer? I'm mostly curious what the reason for 122, 123, and 124 grain ammo is. Seems like the 'good' stuff is usually 124 and 122 is usually tula garbage.
@@randomidiot8142 yes. Tulammo is a popular importer but also a manufacturer. Their symbol, "ТЛ", can be seen on boxes and headstamps. They also occasionally use the entire name as a headstamp. I purchased a case of Wolf 9mm back in 2019, and the headstamps all said "Tulammo", and the back of the box had a small "ТЛ", indicating it had been manufactured by Tula and Imported and sold by Wolf.
It's interesting to see how much worse "tactical" ammo groups. Almost as if that's a feature. They are anticipating you to mag dump so they want to give you more spread so you have a better chance of hitting something lol.
I think they just know that the people that the "tactical" name on the box appeals to won't be able to notice how shit the ammo is, so they put that label on their garbage ammo to avoid getting a bad reputation for it.
Commenting just to help the channel metrics. I remember back when you had almost no subscribers. Glad to see this channel doing so well! Keep up the good work!
Thanks Paul! quite an eye opener. After finding un-burned powder in my AK barrel after shooting a lot of Wolf, I pulled ten rounds and weighed the projectiles and powder charges. The powder varied 3-5 grains and the bullets were from 1 GR low to 1 gr over the box weight. So I reloaded them with Winchester ball powder and Speer .311 bullets (made for a SMLE) They then held to a 2" group at 100 yds. I use a sizeing die as a crimper as I always do. They were so much better that unless they are for my Tax stamped AK, I redo every one I shoot.
@@weekendwarrior5303 Eh, he explained it in one of the first videos he put it in but it's just something he started adding in just for fun and some of us been trying to keep the appreciation going on it since then to keep the "fun, not so serious" aspect of Paul's videos going.
I will take solace in the fact that I have an AR 15 in 7.62x39, and I didn't see too many shots that would not have ruined the "bad guy's" day! :) Great video as always Mr. Harrell!
That brass cased Belom stuff is AWESOME, picked up a half case when the ban was announced and it was practically the same price as Wolf at the time (~$0.45/round). I have never seen such PRETTY ammo for an AK lol, and can get about 2 MOA out of them with a fixed 4x scope. Not too shabby!
I second the Belom. It has been reliably accurate at 100 yards out of my AR pistol in the caliber (WIndham Upper). Nothing more than a micro red dot. That is shooting while standing. Feeds reliably with the Duramags.
I have been waiting for a video like this. I shoot a wide variety of AK variants and a couple of other types of 7.62x39 rifles. I can say, the type and brand of rifle can make a huge difference in accuracy and performance. My Norinco rifles work decent with Wolf, and love Barnal. However, my Hungarian prefers S&B. Either way, not all ammo might not be the same, neither are rifles, nor manufacturers. There's a huge variety in variables. Awesome video. I hope you do another based on a few different types of ammo, but also different rifles.
I'm new to the channel and I do appreciate passing on experience I look forward to learning a lot and thank you for helping me choose my first firearm, I've been watching a lot of your videos to make an informed decision.
Thanks Paul for the very interesting study. It confirms my belief in Barnaul ammo. I find anything Barnaul is good to go. I would have liked to have seen a few more in the mix, like Golden Tiger, MFS, and Winchester, but I'm sure that would have made the video a bit long. Leaves room for another video.....Cheers!
I bought CZ527s and Ruger Americans in 5.56, 6.5 Grendel & 7.62x39 to clarify the validity of the ammo itself vs an autoloading platform. I'd honestly love for you to test all of these. Always enjoy your presentations. Side note: my brother is endeared with you. You made a personal call to him for his birthday in 2022, I think. He was insensed yesterday when he walked into a shop and none of the staff knew who you are. I thought that was comical; he thought it was outrageous. I had to remind him that not everyone, even afficiandos, sits and surfs gun and ammo tests all night. Keep up the great work!
A very interesting summary of various brands of 7.62X39 ammunition. I think it points out some of the quirks in the AK platform. The weapon was never intended to be a target rifle but a battle instrument that put high emphasis on being rugged and reliable at the expense of some accuracy and the same can be said for the ammunition.
My worst 5 shot groups from my CZ 527 carbine with a 4X scope are far better than Paul's best group here with his WASR. If I use the grenade launcher gas shut off setting on my Yugo SKS and run it as a straight pull bolt action, it's nearly as good as the CZ. Using SKS as a semi auto doubles group size but geoups are still better than anything Paul showed here. SHOOTING IT WITH IRON SIGHTS. Paul needs to get an actual AK of decent make, (with a fixed stock!) and repeat this test. Possibly he needs to mount a scope and use some sand bags off a bench while testing too. The velocity testing certainly didn't inspire confidence in several of those ammunition manufacturers, however, Paul's WASR needs another rifle (or several!) compared with it. His testing methods also need to be considered.
@@randomidiot8142 Understood. I was clued in by a Paco Kelley article that it wasn't the CARTRIDGE's fault. When I got the CZ 527 carbine in 2008 and test fired it, I found it shot slightly to the left. So I stopped on the way home and asked the gunsmith at a small gunshop to help me drift the rear sight. When he heard the caliber, he refused to do so, telling me that with the cartridge it fired, not worth the effort! I asked what they had for 7.62x39 ammunition? He sneered "nothing, we don't DO AKs". A dozen kinds of AR, G3, FAL hanging on their walls, no AKs, right enough! I left and didn't ever go back. Dakota Custom Guns, Lakeville MN. They're out of business now- Wonder why?
@@johnwalker3263 For a truly BAD group, I ran across a couple of boxes of Remington 7.62x39 factory ammo in the old yellow-ish boxes for cheap at a gun show. Worst groups EVER. I took the last few rounds apart to see what was going on- They had been loaded with .308 Dia. bullets.
@@johnwalker3263 It gets even crazier, Ruger shipped Mini 30 rifles with .308 groove Dia. barrels until around 1993. They DID have a gradual transition area at throat from .310 down to the .308 bore.
I agree. It would like to see the standard deviation listed with average velocity. It would also show if the velocity from different brands were significant.
Yeah in this caliber the 125gr soft point is where it's at. Before the world went crazy I managed to get a case of 125gr silver bear soft point. Good accurate for an AK stuff, sadly 😥 hard to find now.
@@derpherp4530 I have an ak with a 16" barrel and a shorter gas system and oddly enough even after 100s of rounds the action is way dirtier than the barrel. I think the extra gas blows all the fouling out of the barrel 🤣
Would love to see a comparison between older surplus ammo and modern ammunition. Not necessarily 7.62 , any caliber. Might be interesting to see the numbers and accuracy compared. Awesome content as usual.
I always enjoy your videos., I dont think I have ever seen someone so thorough and unbiased in their presentations. Its more like truthful news about guns and ammo. You dont set up tests that favor one caliber or gun to make it look good. Very good work and keep it up.
I'm really happy you did this video, if nothing else, just to show the general concept of different ammo giving different results. I have actually been doing this exact experiment for about 6 months now and what I'm going to share below is not in contrast from what was shown here - but in conjunction, from my Rifle and my conditions. I'm only going to share the "below freezing" ammo variety results. But, I also did this test last summer with my wide variety of old and new ammo. Not to say anything against what Paul did here, but not all AK's are that wide grouping. I'm thinking that Paul's old WASR may have some qualities that is producing poorer groups than most. My winter test results were as follows. Shot at 100yds with an SLR107FR With a PKA 2moa red dot in 17°F, wind 3-5mph W to E and trying to shoot in the breaks of wind. Barrel Lands: 0.300 Grooves: 0.312 1:9.44 Barrel twist rate ------------------------------- Wolf Polyformance 123gr FMJ: 1.739in Golden Tiger 124gr FMJBT: 3.491in Barnaul 123gr HP: 2.156in China Jing An IE: 1.902in Tula 154gr Soft Point: 6.180in Chinese Unknown Factory 71: 3.328in Sako M43 FMJBT 123gr: 1.269in Lapua 123gr FMJ: 2.977in Sako FMJBT 134gr: 4.174in Norinco FMJBT 123gr: 4.564in Norinco 123gr Soft Point: 5.165in Chinese Milsurp Steel core FMJ Copper washed 124gr: 1.793in 270/E Russian Steel Core Copper washed 123gr: 2.036in Wolf 154gr HP: 6.010in M855 Sabot Custom loads: 7.5in+ -------- Note that in summer time, both of my active AK's will get 1.1-1.4 inch groups with any Barnaul ammo and about same with Wolf if not slightly, ever so slightly worse. Couldn't find where I put those targets at the moment. And yes, I know I have come across some weird ammo over the years like those sabots and this is just what I have in bulk. I've standardized on Barnaul HP's of course. I hope anyone who reads this finds this info useful, I think it's a good reflection of what we saw with what Paul did, but mostly surplus ammo on my end. Note, that I also measured all of the diameters of each projectile and a trend I found was that the 0.310in projectiles shot the most accurately while the ones closest to 0.312 tended to be less so.
Federal and Hornady used to make 7.62x39. But I haven't seen any of it since the coof began. I miss that ammo. The Federal was scary consistent and the Hornady was a straight up hog slayer.
Paul I really enjoyed your in-depth test of all these different brands of 7.62x39 ammunition. I must agree with you not all 7.62x39 is equal, even the ones that’s made in the same country. IE the Silver Bear, Brown Bear, all the different Wolf versions and the Barnaul which is a favorite of a lot of shooters. With all the variations in velocity and points of impact, I’ve found when I change from one brand of ammunition to another I always rezero my AKM. Now in this test you couldn’t do that. Your test also showed that the velocity printed on the box may not be obtained. Thank you for all the hard work.
Again you are really pointing out how Ammo makes the difference. Now and before I know why I prefer my own reloads carefully done. Many don’t realize how the accuracy is affected. Very much appreciated!
I feel like "sellier and belliot Tactical" is a way of selling the stuff that didnt pass QC. I think SandB is usually pretty good though. They do contract for NATO ammo production
The belom 9mm I got is some of the best factory ammo I’ve had. A case is pretty reasonable especially for the quality. Bass case, & primers that are sealed. 124g ball, it’s very accurate in my 320x5
First time I fired my mak90 at range I went to police my casings and couldn't find them, I admittedly was expecting them to be in a similar location as my AR would toss. Nope, those steel cases were a good 4 to 6 yards away and well forward of the firing line. I fired a couple of rounds and watched where they went to find the first ones. 😂
My mini-30 was a great brass tosser. I replaced the gas port with a smaller one and that at least kept the brass in the same county. I use the Fiochi just to get the brass cases, then reload them from my cache of Zombie Max bullets.
@@mikespangler98, my Mini-30 really slings the empties too. Haven't swapped the gas bushing yet, but it's on the list. Try some of the PPU ammo if you get a chance, the reloaders I know rave about the quality of the brass.
Thank you Paul! These tests prove that most of these manufacturers produce and sell their customers a low quality, inconsistent, underpowered, and inaccurate 7.62x39 Ammo. Norma and Fiocchi disappointed the most.
I just purchased my 1st ever AK and I was wondering what brand ammo to get. The Belom ammo is about 60 cents a round but it's readily available so I will probably go with that. Thanks Paul.
Thanks for doing a 7.62x39 review! if you get a chance to also review some offerings from Underwood, Hornady, Tula, surplus M67 and surplus M43, in the same caliber, it would also be really appreciated. For now it looks like Barnaul, Belom, and PMC Bronez appear to be the top three, as far as accuracy and/or power goes.
Thanks for bearing with the rain, light snow, soggy range, and eventual clear weather to bring us this great comparison, Paul. You stayed mighty dry & clean despite all that prone firing. Covered bay, or Paul's improvised hide?
I just bought a Ruger American 7.62x39 with a 4x16 Athalon. This weekend it was shooting +/- 1" to 1.5" groups at 100 yards with Wolf 122 gr. HP. I was pleased to say the least. My WASR is similar to Paul's.
The X39 round can be stunning out of a bolt gun. A guy at my workplace has a CZ 527 with a 4-12 scope. I've seen groups he's shot with factory ammo you could easily cover with a silver dollar, & groups of his own reloads that do even better. He's taken quite a few deer with it, & uses it to keep the coyotes off his acreage. The pelt of one of them is on the wall in his man cave, a full-furred, mid-winter monster he dropped at a lazer-measured 186 yards. Makes me itch to own one.
Great informative vid Mr. Harrell. I have 2 ar's, one 556, the other in 7.62x39. This 7.62x39 ar47 is stupid accurate with any ammo, not to mention the report is unique. Thank u for the quality vids u produce.
Hope you get to test out Yugo M67 milsurp 7.62x39 in a part two of this test since it’ll be one of the top choices when the Russian ammo dries up. Golden Tiger & Winchester white box would be nice to see too if you can find it. Barnaul being the best doesn’t surprise me at all though. Thanks for the quality info and entertainment as always Paul.
Im starting to wonder if this 154gr soft point stuff i have isnt unicorn food. I never see anyone test it and its really hard to find nowadays. Glad i stocked up when i did because my ak loves this stuff and it is great for hunting.
I have some 154gr soft point stuff. In my SKS with a scope mounted on it it’s very accurate. My other SKS doesn’t like it so much but I find with that one, no matter what ammo you put through it, it’s strictly minute of deer accurate at best.
I bought 10 boxes of it on sale years ago. it's not bad accuracy wise out of my CZ527 carbine, does not feed well for first two rounds from the CZ magazine though. I hunt with handloaded 7.62x39 using Hornady SST 123gr. from that CZ527 anyhow, ammo which holds under 1" for 5 rounds at 100 yards. It is also about 150fps faster than standard AK food and I would NOT fire this load from a semi auto rifle.
Part two of this presentation is now online.
Totally off topic, can you do an underhood video of your roadrunner or email me some pics? I'm restoring mine and need something to reference too. Thanks .
Paul. I hope this comment makes it to you as I have a good idea for a video. Underwood 45 super ammo underpenetrates in Ballistics gel tests by alot even though it creates 618-694 ft lbs of energy depending on the grain you use. On average, about 8 inches into gel and that's it. Can you do a meat test regarding regular 45acp hollow points and underwood or Buffalo bores 45 super hollow points and see if the underpenetration Translates into real world effects(maybe it wouldn't do anything to the "ribs on the back" but absolutely destroy the "watermelon lung tissue". Or it might jut shatter the ribs on the front and do minimal damage to the rest since it flattens out soo quickly in the gel. Would love to see it.
@@deadlyalliance8281 I don't have a firearm to shoot .45 super.
@@PaulHarrell got ya! Thanks for the reply man! It's such an interesting round given how it acts In gel(the Nosler bullets) Compared to how much energy it produces. I'm sure it would destroy the meat targets but... Who knows!
Paul, I love how you casual handle ammo as you talk about t
RIP paul. every time the algorithm suggests me a video of yours, I get reminded that you arent with us anymore :(
Same here
To whomever sent all that ammo to Paul. I appreciate your sacrifice to the pool of knowledge.
Kinda throwing me for a loop as to how they had such a variety yet tulammo was nowhere to be seen
@@steallydan5849 ammoseek
Was was wondering if Tulammo was going to make an appearance. Geco is another brand, though haven't seen them around lately in 7.63x39 though
Definitely gets a POB.
@@steallydan5849 All my Tula is unfortunately already in mags/drums. What Tula I have still boxed is in a sealed tin, Red Army Standard Branded, and of their 'Range Safe' jacket material which is rather rare and thus not really relevant. However the Wolf could have been Tula Cartridge Works but we didn't get a look at the labeling on the back of the box for the TCW stamp or the headstamp on the case. Wolf can be a few manufacturers. I handed him the Barnaul cuz that's what I thought was the best baseline steel case ammo to compare to.
It was well worth the sacrifice. He gave me a shirt for for range days. I actually gave him one or two more so there might be a second video with some from his own supply. I'd actually been building up this variety over just the last two years with the question of 'is there brass 7.62x39 _that's worth the reach_'. When he said he was going to be at a gun show at Polk County fair grounds I figured it was time. Well, I think that question has been put to rest for me. I'm glad I have as much Igman and PPU as I do and only a few boxes of that Fiocchi and Norma. I kinda had a feeling how that Fiocchi was gonna go. What with the 9mm Ball comparison I think there's a pattern forming on Fiocchi. Had hopes on the Norma considering their reputation. Disappointing but I'm glad I let deals on that slip by.
Paul is the only person that's allowed to say "it's not me it's the ammo"
Uh, sorry. Since Paul got poor groups, I feel better about myself and can now say, "Hey, it's the ammo."
Distinguished Rifleman, shooting prone. With a second chance. - Yes it is the ammo.
@@guysmith1134 It absolutely is. I've tinkered with a few brands of 5.56 and was frustrated I couldn't hold decent groups. I'm surprised he wasn't shooting 2"-3" groups - I didn't think all those ammos had that much variance.
I shoot mostly handguns these days, and at ten yards I've never found enough variance to say it wasn't me. But maybe even those groups are partly ammo.
Last autumn, I pulled out my 357 with a 6-1/2" barrel and shot some old, old ammo that I used to hand load. At 15 yards off-hand, the first cylinder had five shots in a 7/8" x 7/8" group, and one flyer 1-1/2" above that which I know was me.
I can't begin to do that at 7 yards with any autoloader I have or factory ammo. Maybe factory ammo variance is worse than I thought.
Well I certainly wouldn’t be allowed to say it🤠
@@keithgraham9547 10 yards... Bro, I can shoot dimes with 80+% accuracy with a FREE airsoft pistol that was included in the bucket of cheap ammo at that range! I can hit flies from about 10 ft away with 90% success rate of splattering them. That's without rifling, with cheap high variation light weight (semi-hollow, so they have air bubbles off center on them) BBs. Of course you won't see ANY variation at that distance. And no I'm not a good shot with a pistol either, that's just such a close range you can't miss, and if you do its entirely user fault.
To see ammo variation you have to have bullet time in flight, and with .22 even that's 25 thousandths second, so if there is even a 10% variation in speed (and time), that's 0.002415" in height drop variation at 30 ft. Not .22", no its .0024", so 1/100th the diameter of the .22 bullet.
Hey Paul, I know you passed away.
I will miss your future content, as always thank you for the information you’ve made available to us all 😢😢
❤
How did he pass away?
@@konebrieber2390 Cancer 😥
As someone who mostly has 7.62x39 rifles, this video brings me great joy.
But my top 3 brands of 7.62x39 are not represented here! Still a great video, though.
@@nedrain9044 Should've tried to get ahold of the Chinese corrosive surplus for a baseline. Are those still banned down there in the US?
I was always a .223 and .300 guy until I bought a Cz bren 2ms in 762x39. I hog hunt so put down power is important for me. I never had trouble with accuracy with 762 and it's way better at dropping hogs quick.
@@TokyoSeventeen Only banned from import. Likely always will be, unless it's been stored for more than 20 years in a third country. Nothing like clear and logical rules, lol!
For me? I'm not picky so I grab what is ever on the shelf back when Walmart use to sell ammo. Winchester White box 123 grain and Tula steel case 123 grain.
"Tactical" in this case is pure marketing, and Paul schooled us as usual! Great teacher!!
I suspect you might be onto something. Ivan: this ammo batch is awful. Ivan the marketing specialist: no problemo, we label it tactical!
S&B Tactical looks like some of those bullets came in sideways, or tumbling and printing with a large hole, instead of just a nice round hole. That S&B Tactical is terrible. I do wonder though, those rounds were shot at the end of his shooting session, which means that barrel was nice and toasty. One would think a hot barrel would affect accuracy, but not make the round tumble. Anyways…
Isn't all ammo Tactical?
@Rockwell Rhodes So a hunting round can't be used tactically?
@Rockwell Rhodes What creature are you hunting though?
Miss you already Paul
Accuracy tests part 1 - 100 yards prone:
Wolf Ammunition - 01:34
Barnaul - 02:22
Fiocchi - 03:19
PMC Bronze - 04:25
Prvi Partizan (PPU, blue box) - 05:28
Prvi Partizan (PPU, white box) - 06:56
Accuracy tests part 1 summary - 07:58
Wolf Ammunition second test - 09:36
Accuracy tests part 2 - 100 yards prone:
Norma Tactical, 124gr - 10:49
Belom - 12:01
Igman - 13:14
Sellier and Bellot - 14:38
Sellier and Bellot Tactical, 124gr - 15:40
Sellier and Bellot Tactical, 124gr second test - 16:43
Accuracy tests part 2 summary - 18:01
Velocity tests:
Sellier and Bellot Tactical, 124gr - 19:49
Sellier and Bellot - 21:00
Prvi Partizan (PPU, blue box) - 21:56
Prvi Partizan (PPU, white box) - 22:49
Norma Tactical, 124gr - 23:35
Barnaul - 24:20
PMC Bronze - 25:07
Igman - 25:56
Fiocchi - 26:43
Belom - 27:35
Wolf Ammunition - 28:27
XTech MAG47 Mag dump - 29:20
XTech MAG47 Mag comparison - 29:55
Velocity test summary - 30:43
Best brass ammo for your money Norma tac.
Hunting ammo underwood lehigh defense
Hornady sst
Good work
Always much appreciated when someone takes the time to timestamp these videos. You are a gentleman and a scholar, as my dear departed Dad would say.
GrassyAss
Thank you
Paul, making this video to compare a lot of different 7.62x39 ammunition is very useful and informative. I want to thank you for that. However, I have to give you a huge Thumbs Up for your tenacity in continuing to put out such well made videos sometimes in conditions I, quite honestly, would not have went out in. As always, I look forward to ALL of your material.
Sometimes it feels great to be out in the rain, I make a point to go outside for a bit when it does.
Only thing missing was some old crusty surplus corrosive ammo and that spread would've matched the pile of ammo sitting in my safe at home!
Shame we can't all chip in and send some ammo back to the viewer who sent all this stuff in.
You may not get to choose the conditions in which you fight, it's why me and my buddy spent more days than I can remember out in the 90+degree heat to get some good training in. Not as much rain or winter shooting, but you get the point. Do I think Paul sees it like that? Probably not, just seems like a guy that generally enjoys being outdoors.
Haven't you heard, if it ain't raining we ain't training.
Finding a 100 yard indoor range can be a challenge. ;>)
Dealing with "field conditions" is good practice for when you need to shoot outdoors and can't choose the conditions.
In my years of shooting almost everytype of 7.62x39 ammo out of many SKS/AKs Ive found the most consistantly accurate to be Barnaul.
And it’s cheap too.
I’ll second that
I've noticed that the Wolf Polyformance bears the Barnaul headstamp. In my rifles it performs far better than the Wolf Performance ammo which in my experience is usually stamped "Tula" or "Wolf", though not so well as Barnaul's own offerings.
@@billh.6529 Wolf is just a brand not an ammo factory. They'll buy ammo from any factory and put it in their boxes
Sorta how Norinco was for chinese ammo
@@creamiegoodness 🤫
I'm really glad to see the Pop-Tarts sponsorship continuing. I think more breakfast cereal and snack food companies should be sponsoring gun channels.
Is it actually a sponsorship? I thought it was a joke.
@@ThyCorruptor I have no idea. I think it's a joke. I'm just joking about the joke. Call it a meta-joke if you will.
@@Fudmottin it’s a parody of the Camel ads from the 80’s that say “where a man belongs” that show shots of a man in outdoor places doing manly stuff while smoking Camels.
@@frost214ify Based I think on the "I've eaten Pop Tarts that were more than 6 years old" line from an old vid
@@ThyCorruptor Close enough for me. I haven't eaten Pop-Tarts since I was a kid, and then only rarely. I'm going to get some.
Paul's ammo tests have saved me a lot of money in the longrun, not having to spend my own $$ doing these types of trials is a breath of fresh air!
just because it shoots like crap in his gun dont mean it will in your gun though.
It absolutely varies based on individual guns
Paul, I really appreciate what you do for our community. You are the "everyman" shooter. I truly enjoy your channel, and I never miss a video. Thank you very much.
Indeed. Zero hard a$$ BS, all experience. Can't beat it.
same
He's a wee bit better than average in marksmanship -- and across quite a few different platforms, too. "Everyman" firearms owners mostly own & collect, rarely shoot, almost never train, but take sweet pictures of their collection, their "clones," etc. which, again, never really get used.
Pretty much the opposite of Mr Harrell.
But I get your point, there's no bravado & no flash, and when he's funny he's definitely funny, our host.
“People keep on using the term ‘tactical’, I don’t think it means what you think it means.” Inconceivable!
Something to add to the Paul Harrell cinematic universe lore… he likes The Princess Bride. The man has taste 🧐
Rumor has it Paul also had some Ticondas in 7.62x39 but it's too precious to shoot
Probably some Norinco chinesium copper cased Ticondas😩👍
Underrated comment.
Not the buscaderos 😉
In these times those must be worth a fortune
we really need an additional title card for Paul being sponsored by Hurtenberger-Buscadero Ticondas, the definitive Carry ammo you can't afford to shoot.
The quote casually dropped at 18:30 is why I love Paul's work. Clear, consistent, to the point, and always a good listen.
Thank you for keeping Paul's excellent videos up.
I have to say that i simply adore how thoroughly you tested this ammo, it's hard to find videos that compare a good variety of ammo and at a reasonable range.
Would be a very long video to test ALL of them lol. I think he's sticking with the lower brands cause that's what most folks buy these days.
•“Mil spec”, w sealed necks and primers lacquer; Barnaul (wolf military classic) or Vympel (GT).
•Barnaul lacquer; brown bear Barnaul brand
•Barnaul poly (wolf MC or polyformance)
•Tula poly either Tula or Wolf marketed.
So according to this the only Wolf made by Barnaul is Military classis and polyformance, anything else is supposedly Tula in a Wolf box. If anyone else knows otherwise please let us know. This is from the AR15 forum from a year ago.
I had a sneaking suspicion "tactical" ammo was only good for short range. This video seems to support that.
So much of it is what your rifle likes. I get good results (about 1.25 moa) with the s&b tactical out of my single shot. Not as good as lapua match (sub moa), but definitely not bad at all.
Suitable for IDPA you mean? Tactical is CQB?
"tactical" is for indoor use only!
I always figured tactical was industry shortform for mixed lots and factory seconds.
Very humble cartridge at a great price. Thanks Paul may God rest your soul.
Rip Paul. Most informative guntuber
I must say, I would often go to the range and shoot my AKM and SKS at 100 yards, and shoot 10-12 inch groups, shooting bench rested, 1 shot per second, and would be quite dissatisfied with my performance, but seeing Paul not shoot way better than that with half these ammo types, gives me some perspective, that I wasn't completely at fault with my groups I may have been getting. I would mostly shoot WOLF ammo in these cases too.
i had a pretty decent grouping at 100 meters with the wolf ammo ive used.
@@martiniversen4898 Ironically, my Russian Tula 1953 made SKS isn't that good, maybe 7" groups, but that could be me also not helping. Better than my AK variant though by far.
BigRick, I've put seventeen different brands & types of ammo through my Ruger Mini-30, & Wolf was hands-down the worst. FMJ, hollow point, soft point, lacquer case, polymer case, didn't matter, always disappointing. For inexpensive ammo, I've had far better results with Brown Bear & Silver Bear ammo, which are made by Barnaul. Much better accuracy, fewer fliers, & more consistent point of impact. Others have done ok with Wolf, but for most of the shooters I know, it's the ammo of last resort. Rifles are only as good as what they're fed, so try a better grade of fodder, & you may be quite pleasantly surprised how much better you shoot.:)
Did you ever try shutting off the gas system on SKS and running it as a straight pull repeater? That method + good hand loads might surprise you.
@@Bert2368 might want to do a wiggle test on the front sight too.
As a guy who films for a living, I appreciated the intro where Paul is actually framed up somewhat nice rather than using a wide angle go pro from like 15 feet away.
As a scientist myself, it’s so refreshing to see the scientific method being applied to show us practical real world results under real world conditions. In my opinion this is a great relief from most other channels which do so much talking and tacticool shit, but not showing these type of valuable comparisons. Thank you Paul and crew! 🔥
Science gang unite, I’m repping physics and chemistry here
@@nicknaylor9895 haha nice! I’m in the field of Cancer Biology but my favorite subject in physics was Kinematics because I would always think of it in terms of ballistics. 😂
@@joseceja8783 most of the kinematics homework questions I ever did involved launching something, although profs would never say guns or cannons
@@nicknaylor9895 Well, in nuclear physics, we launch tiny stuff at relativistic speeds into other tiny stuff so all of us can relate to that.
Yay. Chemistry and physics here.
I've found barnaul, tula, and red ops (vympel) tend to be fairly accurate. I believe the problem with accuracy comes from inconsistent loading of powder at the various factories. And with that, I was taught that you should always sight your AK for whatever specific ammo type you'll be using. Thanks for the test Paul
Isn't vympel fmjbt, and how does maxxtech 7.62x39 shoot?
@@williejohnson1732 yes the 124 grain is fmjbt. I've not had much of the maxxtech but if im not mistaken it's a rebrand of another manufacturer, as much 7.62x39 is.
@@williejohnson1732 maxxtech appears to be made by vympel also. I really like vympel because it's sealed and lacquered. Just make sure you always know whether they're corrosive primed or not. The red ops and maxxtech are non corrosive primed
Well, you should always sight your [insert gun name here] for whatever specific ammo type you'll be using. That's just good practice.
@@williejohnson1732 i use tula and red ops
Thank you for taking the time to do this very informative video. I always enjoy your presentations and look forward to each new one.
Now we need to send him a bolt action chambered in 7.63x39 to test the same ammo in another action type. Great video as always Paul. 👍
The Belom ammo is brass with reloadable boxer primers and comes in excellent plastic boxes........ at least it did a few months ago. It also was priced very fair. I'm glad to see the results in this video.
Belom is my favorite, I also shoot their 9mm.
@@WsAPsycho
Yep, they have quickly become one of my favorite ammo manufacturers.
The PPU brass is said to be good for reloading.
@@thetooner8203
I just fired a bunch of PPU 10mm FMJ and JHP a couple of days ago and every round was perfect. You can't beat it for the money.
I can usually get only the Belom in the brass with no steel jackets for those days at the range. Not cheap for x39 but it shoots really well
I was worried about the chronograph's wellbeing with some of those 'tactical' rounds.
I've come to believe "tactical" is a word you hang onto something to try to make it more sellable.
@@bubbajones5905 Rings true in my experience.
I had the same thought.😂
Me too!
Well he was doing the accuracy test at 100 yards, and chronograph test at 7.
When looking at Russian imported ammunition, it's important to note that some importers bring in batches from different manufacturers. Wolf, for example, brings in ammunition from both Barnaul AND Tula (tulammo). The manufacturer's information can usually be found on each box. Last year I purchased ammunition manufactured by Barnaul, Tulammo and Ulyanovsk all in Wolf boxes.
The most common manufacturers are Tulammo, Barnaul, Vympel, Ulyanovsk, and Novosobirsk. The biggest importers are Wolf, Red Army Standard (Century Arms), Tulammo, and Barnaul.
I'm curious who made your batch of Wolf ammo. I've had the best results with Barnaul, but that small box looks like Ulyanovisk to me, which I've also been disappointed by.
Tula is actually a manufacturer and not just an importer?
I'm mostly curious what the reason for 122, 123, and 124 grain ammo is. Seems like the 'good' stuff is usually 124 and 122 is usually tula garbage.
@@randomidiot8142 yes. Tulammo is a popular importer but also a manufacturer. Their symbol, "ТЛ", can be seen on boxes and headstamps. They also occasionally use the entire name as a headstamp. I purchased a case of Wolf 9mm back in 2019, and the headstamps all said "Tulammo", and the back of the box had a small "ТЛ", indicating it had been manufactured by Tula and Imported and sold by Wolf.
* Výmpjel; Uljjanóvsk.
p.s. Barnaül. Which stands for Bar-na-úl. Not «Bar-noul».
several different plants also.
Wolf polyformance tends to be tula. Military Classic is usually Barnaul.
It's interesting to see how much worse "tactical" ammo groups. Almost as if that's a feature. They are anticipating you to mag dump so they want to give you more spread so you have a better chance of hitting something lol.
🤣I am thinking the same thing !
I think they just know that the people that the "tactical" name on the box appeals to won't be able to notice how shit the ammo is, so they put that label on their garbage ammo to avoid getting a bad reputation for it.
Thank you very much for your effort$ to supply us with interesting ammo-info.
Take care and shoot safely!
Commenting just to help the channel metrics. I remember back when you had almost no subscribers. Glad to see this channel doing so well! Keep up the good work!
Finally!! Paul employed the technical term “sucks” as pertains to accuracy!! 😎
I've heard Rob Ski praise the Barnaul 7.62 ammunition before. I'm betting it does the best. Thanks for the share!!
I love the poptarts ad's at the start, short gets to the point that's what I want in a ad. More brands should advertise with you.
Thanks Paul! quite an eye opener. After finding un-burned powder in my AK barrel after shooting a lot of Wolf, I pulled ten rounds and weighed the projectiles and powder charges. The powder varied 3-5 grains and the bullets were from 1 GR low to 1 gr over the box weight.
So I reloaded them with Winchester ball powder and Speer .311 bullets (made for a SMLE) They then held to a 2" group at 100 yds. I use a sizeing die as a crimper as I always do. They were so much better that unless they are for my Tax stamped AK, I redo every one I shoot.
Wow, 3-5 grains is quite a difference! I measure my loads down to around 1 to 3 tenths of a grain. What Win.powder were you using, please?
@@carljh58 Winchester 748. It flows through a powder measure and a funnel easily.
@@myfavoritemartian1 Thank you. I have some 748 also, and it is claimed to burn 'cooler' than other rifle powders.
Haha I just had Poptarts this morning and thought this is where a man belongs haha. Great video Paul and crew!
Did I miss something? What's this Poptart business about.
@@weekendwarrior5303 Eh, he explained it in one of the first videos he put it in but it's just something he started adding in just for fun
and some of us been trying to keep the appreciation going on it since then to keep the "fun, not so serious" aspect of Paul's videos going.
@@mandodelorian4668 Thanks for the explanation!
Paul making a princess bride reference makes my life complete.
Just noticed that too.
I was losing faith in 7.62x39 until the S&B, Surbian Belom, & Igman also those 3 had some of the best velocities as well. Nice demonstration Paul!
Brother Paul = AMERICAN BADASSERY
I will take solace in the fact that I have an AR 15 in 7.62x39, and I didn't see too many shots that would not have ruined the "bad guy's" day! :) Great video as always Mr. Harrell!
As always, great usage of the appropriate technical terms. It's always a pleasure watching your videos Paul.
Igman is a mountain in Bosnia and Herzegowina, the ammo is produced there. Both serbian and bosnian ammo is pretty decent and not as expensive.
About 85¢/round at my local shop rn
I really do love this man, my favorite gun TH-camr hands down
That brass cased Belom stuff is AWESOME, picked up a half case when the ban was announced and it was practically the same price as Wolf at the time (~$0.45/round). I have never seen such PRETTY ammo for an AK lol, and can get about 2 MOA out of them with a fixed 4x scope. Not too shabby!
I second the Belom. It has been reliably accurate at 100 yards out of my AR pistol in the caliber (WIndham Upper). Nothing more than a micro red dot. That is shooting while standing. Feeds reliably with the Duramags.
@@dmherman4208 I've been contemplating an AR in 7.62, I'd rather have a mutant type though. I've got plenty of AK mags
@@BrassBashers Sounds good! I had neither so now I have a dependable AR platform with the Duramags. It is very accurate.
I love the objectivity! Thank you for the videos you produce with the data you provide from results you achieve!
I have been waiting for a video like this. I shoot a wide variety of AK variants and a couple of other types of 7.62x39 rifles.
I can say, the type and brand of rifle can make a huge difference in accuracy and performance. My Norinco rifles work decent with Wolf, and love Barnal. However, my Hungarian prefers S&B. Either way, not all ammo might not be the same, neither are rifles, nor manufacturers. There's a huge variety in variables.
Awesome video. I hope you do another based on a few different types of ammo, but also different rifles.
I'm new to the channel and I do appreciate passing on experience I look forward to learning a lot and thank you for helping me choose my first firearm, I've been watching a lot of your videos to make an informed decision.
Thanks Paul for the very interesting study. It confirms my belief in Barnaul ammo. I find anything Barnaul is good to go. I would have liked to have seen a few more in the mix, like Golden Tiger, MFS, and Winchester, but I'm sure that would have made the video a bit long. Leaves room for another video.....Cheers!
I bought CZ527s and Ruger Americans in 5.56, 6.5 Grendel & 7.62x39 to clarify the validity of the ammo itself vs an autoloading platform.
I'd honestly love for you to test all of these.
Always enjoy your presentations.
Side note: my brother is endeared with you. You made a personal call to him for his birthday in 2022, I think. He was insensed yesterday when he walked into a shop and none of the staff knew who you are. I thought that was comical; he thought it was outrageous. I had to remind him that not everyone, even afficiandos, sits and surfs gun and ammo tests all night.
Keep up the great work!
I always trust Paul’s content…RIP…in that big range in the sky.
Any time Paul posts , I feel a wave of relief and calm .His voice is relaxing and his presence reasuring .
Gaaaay
In not sure if he's a psycho or just really cool.
Heh..... GAUYYYYYYYYYYY
p.s.- that voice is pretty reassuring.
@@therocinante3443 both maybe
And an unexplainable desire to eat Pop Tarts…
Paul always sacrificing confort to teach the common man. Great vid!
A very interesting summary of various brands of 7.62X39 ammunition. I think it points out some of the quirks in the AK platform. The weapon was never intended to be a target rifle but a battle instrument that put high emphasis on being rugged and reliable at the expense of some accuracy and the same can be said for the ammunition.
Paul just pulling boxes out of his pocket and saying what he's got in his hands without even looking is just pure badass
Thank you for running this fine experiment. It would be interesting to see a CZ 527 and an SKS used as well.
My worst 5 shot groups from my CZ 527 carbine with a 4X scope are far better than Paul's best group here with his WASR.
If I use the grenade launcher gas shut off setting on my Yugo SKS and run it as a straight pull bolt action, it's nearly as good as the CZ. Using SKS as a semi auto doubles group size but geoups are still better than anything Paul showed here. SHOOTING IT WITH IRON SIGHTS.
Paul needs to get an actual AK of decent make, (with a fixed stock!) and repeat this test. Possibly he needs to mount a scope and use some sand bags off a bench while testing too.
The velocity testing certainly didn't inspire confidence in several of those ammunition manufacturers, however, Paul's WASR needs another rifle (or several!) compared with it. His testing methods also need to be considered.
@@Bert2368 it does show between the ammo and rifle why so many don't think the cartridge can perform very well.
@@randomidiot8142
Understood. I was clued in by a Paco Kelley article that it wasn't the CARTRIDGE's fault.
When I got the CZ 527 carbine in 2008 and test fired it, I found it shot slightly to the left. So I stopped on the way home and asked the gunsmith at a small gunshop to help me drift the rear sight. When he heard the caliber, he refused to do so, telling me that with the cartridge it fired, not worth the effort! I asked what they had for 7.62x39 ammunition? He sneered "nothing, we don't DO AKs". A dozen kinds of AR, G3, FAL hanging on their walls, no AKs, right enough! I left and didn't ever go back. Dakota Custom Guns, Lakeville MN. They're out of business now- Wonder why?
@@johnwalker3263
For a truly BAD group, I ran across a couple of boxes of Remington 7.62x39 factory ammo in the old yellow-ish boxes for cheap at a gun show. Worst groups EVER. I took the last few rounds apart to see what was going on- They had been loaded with .308 Dia. bullets.
@@johnwalker3263
It gets even crazier, Ruger shipped Mini 30 rifles with .308 groove Dia. barrels until around 1993. They DID have a gradual transition area at throat from .310 down to the .308 bore.
You can really see the correlation between the standard deviation between rounds and accuracy.
I agree. It would like to see the standard deviation listed with average velocity. It would also show if the velocity from different brands were significant.
i was actually appalled by the extreme variance some showed... 250 FPS difference IS enough to make a difference.
See AKOU for their test which includes standard deviation.
Awesome content as always. Melting every last drip of SKS cosmoline out as often as I can, 7.62x39 1000rd box whatever's cheapest.
My Preferred 7.62x39 round is the wolf 125 grain soft point 👍
Gets me the most consistent effect at range over a HP
Yeah in this caliber the 125gr soft point is where it's at.
Before the world went crazy I managed to get a case of 125gr silver bear soft point.
Good accurate for an AK stuff, sadly 😥 hard to find now.
Fouls a barrel quicker but the soviets get down and dirty to begin with.
@@derpherp4530 I have an ak with a 16" barrel and a shorter gas system and oddly enough even after 100s of rounds the action is way dirtier than the barrel. I think the extra gas blows all the fouling out of the barrel 🤣
Its ALL about the golden tiger 124 fmjbt baby
@@SugarMilkbro that's the intention
It seems like it's raining in about half of your videos. I appreciate you taking another one for the team!
What a fantastic and comprehensive comparison. Hopefully this video spreads across the algorithm.
the look of joy and excitement in this guy's eyes at the beginning when he's holding all those boxes of ammunition is priceless.
Happiness is full pockets of ammunition.
Paul Harrell grows on a person interested in marksmanship. Speaks softly and hits with a big stick!
Would love to see a comparison between older surplus ammo and modern ammunition. Not necessarily 7.62 , any caliber. Might be interesting to see the numbers and accuracy compared.
Awesome content as usual.
This is one of the best videos on youtube I've seen. Thank you Paul.
I always enjoy your videos., I dont think I have ever seen someone so thorough and unbiased in their presentations. Its more like truthful news about guns and ammo. You dont set up tests that favor one caliber or gun to make it look good. Very good work and keep it up.
I'm really happy you did this video, if nothing else, just to show the general concept of different ammo giving different results. I have actually been doing this exact experiment for about 6 months now and what I'm going to share below is not in contrast from what was shown here - but in conjunction, from my Rifle and my conditions. I'm only going to share the "below freezing" ammo variety results. But, I also did this test last summer with my wide variety of old and new ammo. Not to say anything against what Paul did here, but not all AK's are that wide grouping. I'm thinking that Paul's old WASR may have some qualities that is producing poorer groups than most.
My winter test results were as follows. Shot at 100yds with an SLR107FR With a PKA 2moa red dot in 17°F, wind 3-5mph W to E and trying to shoot in the breaks of wind.
Barrel Lands: 0.300
Grooves: 0.312
1:9.44 Barrel twist rate
-------------------------------
Wolf Polyformance 123gr FMJ: 1.739in
Golden Tiger 124gr FMJBT: 3.491in
Barnaul 123gr HP: 2.156in
China Jing An IE: 1.902in
Tula 154gr Soft Point: 6.180in
Chinese Unknown Factory 71: 3.328in
Sako M43 FMJBT 123gr: 1.269in
Lapua 123gr FMJ: 2.977in
Sako FMJBT 134gr: 4.174in
Norinco FMJBT 123gr: 4.564in
Norinco 123gr Soft Point: 5.165in
Chinese Milsurp Steel core FMJ Copper washed 124gr: 1.793in
270/E Russian Steel Core Copper washed 123gr: 2.036in
Wolf 154gr HP: 6.010in
M855 Sabot Custom loads: 7.5in+
--------
Note that in summer time, both of my active AK's will get 1.1-1.4 inch groups with any Barnaul ammo and about same with Wolf if not slightly, ever so slightly worse. Couldn't find where I put those targets at the moment. And yes, I know I have come across some weird ammo over the years like those sabots and this is just what I have in bulk.
I've standardized on Barnaul HP's of course.
I hope anyone who reads this finds this info useful, I think it's a good reflection of what we saw with what Paul did, but mostly surplus ammo on my end.
Note, that I also measured all of the diameters of each projectile and a trend I found was that the 0.310in projectiles shot the most accurately while the ones closest to 0.312 tended to be less so.
Very interesting, Would love to see Paul do an accuracy test with different types of 223/556 ammunition out of the new Zastava M90 rifle.
Same. I’d love to know practical accuracy with an experienced shooter
I've been looking for one of those M90s everywhere, they sell like blinis!
I have an ancient Mitchell Arms import M70 (sort of) and M77B1. Two of my favorite AK's. Still trying to find an M90 without a scalper price tag.
I'm sure you can. Just send him (via FFL of course) a new Zastava M90 and a bunch of the ammo you want him to test :D
send him the rifle and 1000 rounds I bet he would do it :)
Federal and Hornady used to make 7.62x39. But I haven't seen any of it since the coof began. I miss that ammo. The Federal was scary consistent and the Hornady was a straight up hog slayer.
Agreed. Federal discontinued their Fusion offering, for some reason.
There’s Winchester that makes it
They still make it do some research online
Paul I really enjoyed your in-depth test of all these different brands of 7.62x39 ammunition. I must agree with you not all 7.62x39 is equal, even the ones that’s made in the same country. IE the Silver Bear, Brown Bear, all the different Wolf versions and the Barnaul which is a favorite of a lot of shooters. With all the variations in velocity and points of impact, I’ve found when I change from one brand of ammunition to another I always rezero my AKM. Now in this test you couldn’t do that. Your test also showed that the velocity printed on the box may not be obtained. Thank you for all the hard work.
Again you are really pointing out how Ammo makes the difference. Now and before I know why I prefer my own reloads carefully done. Many don’t realize how the accuracy is affected. Very much appreciated!
I feel like "sellier and belliot Tactical" is a way of selling the stuff that didnt pass QC. I think SandB is usually pretty good though. They do contract for NATO ammo production
they just know if they slap the word tactical on it people will buy it up.
I've shot S&B 7.92 x 57 for years. Has always worked very well.
In my opinion tactical ammo means range ammo.
In the context of their 54R, the tactical is little bit hotter but far more reliable
I'm so glad Paul Harrell has crapped on AK lovers, so if you're looking to sell to me at a deep discount let me know. Imports only no wasr-10s please
The belom 9mm I got is some of the best factory ammo I’ve had. A case is pretty reasonable especially for the quality. Bass case, & primers that are sealed. 124g ball, it’s very accurate in my 320x5
Damn...I think the ejected brass has greater range than the bullet! Love AK brass throwers!
First time I fired my mak90 at range I went to police my casings and couldn't find them, I admittedly was expecting them to be in a similar location as my AR would toss. Nope, those steel cases were a good 4 to 6 yards away and well forward of the firing line. I fired a couple of rounds and watched where they went to find the first ones. 😂
I'm in Boston. I caught a piece.
My mini-30 was a great brass tosser. I replaced the gas port with a smaller one and that at least kept the brass in the same county.
I use the Fiochi just to get the brass cases, then reload them from my cache of Zombie Max bullets.
@@mikespangler98, my Mini-30 really slings the empties too. Haven't swapped the gas bushing yet, but it's on the list. Try some of the PPU ammo if you get a chance, the reloaders I know rave about the quality of the brass.
Thank you Paul! These tests prove that most of these manufacturers produce and sell their customers a low quality, inconsistent, underpowered, and inaccurate 7.62x39 Ammo. Norma and Fiocchi disappointed the most.
Rest in peace, Paul. You’re missed
I learned that when some ammo company calls their newest offering "Tactical", I should beware.
So comprehensive, I love this show.
This is very topical.
Thank you, Mr. Harrell!
As always; a quality presentation with mostly scientific testing and a sprinkling of humor
Needed this, thanks Paul and ammo donating viewer
I just purchased my 1st ever AK and I was wondering what brand ammo to get. The Belom ammo is about 60 cents a round but it's readily available so I will probably go with that. Thanks Paul.
I've shot both their 7.62 and 9mm.
Both are really good
@@jasohavents their 9mm as far as I know are loaded to 9mm NATO spec. Very good practice ammo for CCW if you carry +P ammo
Bulgarian Arsenal ammo has showed up recently (thank God) in the 40-45 cent range.
Thanks for doing a 7.62x39 review! if you get a chance to also review some offerings from Underwood, Hornady, Tula, surplus M67 and surplus M43, in the same caliber, it would also be really appreciated. For now it looks like Barnaul, Belom, and PMC Bronez appear to be the top three, as far as accuracy and/or power goes.
Send him the ammo.
3” groups with the m67 out of my m70 zpap
I have used Barnaul ammo for years,also in competition. Here in Finland best ammo and cheapest.
Excellent vid! Great data and marksmanship
Great video Paul very informative and thorough we really appreciate all the work you put into your presentation thank you
Let us give a thanks to the viewer that donated the ammo👏👏👏👍
Amen.
Thanks for bearing with the rain, light snow, soggy range, and eventual clear weather to bring us this great comparison, Paul. You stayed mighty dry & clean despite all that prone firing. Covered bay, or Paul's improvised hide?
For my Galil ACE 7.62x39 and Zastava ZPAP M70, I do have a very good group on Barnaul 123 or 124 grain at 200 yards.
Paul, I am happy to see that you enjoy Pop Tarts also. They were a favorite of ours in the squad bay back in the day in the Corps. Semper Fi
I just bought a Ruger American 7.62x39 with a 4x16 Athalon. This weekend it was shooting +/- 1" to 1.5" groups at 100 yards with Wolf 122 gr. HP. I was pleased to say the least. My WASR is similar to Paul's.
The X39 round can be stunning out of a bolt gun. A guy at my workplace has a CZ 527 with a 4-12 scope. I've seen groups he's shot with factory ammo you could easily cover with a silver dollar, & groups of his own reloads that do even better. He's taken quite a few deer with it, & uses it to keep the coyotes off his acreage. The pelt of one of them is on the wall in his man cave, a full-furred, mid-winter monster he dropped at a lazer-measured 186 yards. Makes me itch to own one.
Always test out ammo in your guns to find out what they like best 👍 great video Paul
Laughed out loud @ "This group sucks." It's not the line, it's the delivery. 🤣🤣🤣
Pay attention to the headstamps on imported AK ammo. I’ve opened spam cans of wolf made mainly by bernaul
Great informative vid Mr. Harrell. I have 2 ar's, one 556, the other in 7.62x39. This 7.62x39 ar47 is stupid accurate with any ammo, not to mention the report is unique. Thank u for the quality vids u produce.
Ya gotta respect a man that does such a good review during rainy conditions. Thank you
Hope you get to test out Yugo M67 milsurp 7.62x39 in a part two of this test since it’ll be one of the top choices when the Russian ammo dries up. Golden Tiger & Winchester white box would be nice to see too if you can find it. Barnaul being the best doesn’t surprise me at all though. Thanks for the quality info and entertainment as always Paul.
Im starting to wonder if this 154gr soft point stuff i have isnt unicorn food. I never see anyone test it and its really hard to find nowadays. Glad i stocked up when i did because my ak loves this stuff and it is great for hunting.
There is one gel test out there, it looks like a killer.
My SKS loves the Tula 154gr.
I did a few water test with it. It’s good to go.
I have some 154gr soft point stuff. In my SKS with a scope mounted on it it’s very accurate. My other SKS doesn’t like it so much but I find with that one, no matter what ammo you put through it, it’s strictly minute of deer accurate at best.
I bought 10 boxes of it on sale years ago. it's not bad accuracy wise out of my CZ527 carbine, does not feed well for first two rounds from the CZ magazine though.
I hunt with handloaded 7.62x39 using Hornady SST 123gr. from that CZ527 anyhow, ammo which holds under 1" for 5 rounds at 100 yards. It is also about 150fps faster than standard AK food and I would NOT fire this load from a semi auto rifle.