Empire State Troops Unit Review & Deep Dive! | Warhammer: The Old World
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Spear over Halberd! How dare you! Every Empire general knows the Halberdier is the core of every mighty army, I should know, i was there, back when we called them Helblitzen
Hay I’m from stirland halberds use way too much steel lol 😂 sometimes spears require no steel expensive stuff
No step up to fight in this edition makes spears the only real viable option unless you are a small dedicated counter charge unit
So I tied a skull to my belt, which was the style at the time…
I was thinking Spearmen as the frontline and then veteran halberds as a counter-charge force
@@CatharsisChaser I think halberds will be excellent as detachments.
I've got 40 Empire State Troopers that I bought years ago and had kitted out with spears and shields, so I'm glad to hear that they are likely to be a good choice.
Models seem to be same as last edition so they still work
Coming from a 6th Ed empire player you take halberds as detachments if spears don’t get the second rank on the charge. Get the spearmen to take the charge and then disrupt the ranks with 5 or 10 halberds who come with a punch.
Also the vets next to guarantee they will make it to the fight with the reroll leadership. Sucks it doesn’t help break test
That’s my two cents without the book yet
From what I have gathered many Empire players are disappointed with State Troops, they are more expensive than say Men-at-Arms, but lack any additional bells and whistles like Horde, Warband, Shieldwall, etc... they only only getting +1 WS for 1 extra point and they still need to pay 2 points for Shields and Spears or 1 point for Halberds. Veterans cost an extra 2 points for +2 WS and Veteran and still would need to pay the extra 2 points for Shields and a Spear or 1 point for Halberds and an additional 1 point if they want Drilled. These units are essentially 7+ or 9+ point units and they lost what made them unique which was Detachments and Regimental Units. I think State Troops and Veterans should cost 1 less point and both units get Drilled for free to be competitive to other chafe units.
When the video is about the Empire and the first images are Bretonians
This may have been mentioned, but Thrusting Spears do not get Fight In Additional Ranks on the charge, they only get it if they themselves are charged. Throwing Spears (Which some other races get instead/as welll) do provide an additional rank worth of attacks on the charge. Additionally: Thrusting Spears give you +1 initiative if you are charged.
I dont know if this changes your assessment.
A veteran state trooper with a spear and a shield has the same point cost as a high elf spearman with the same equipment, just think about it for a freaking second.
Yep vets are only worth for small counter charging halberd units(if that imho) ws 4 on massed mooks with spears is a total waste
They aren’t there to win, they are there to soak up charges
Yeah the Empire State troopers seem awful competitively. The Bretonnian Men at Arms are soooo much better. I’ve seen a disappointed Empire player say they’re going to run their army proxied as a Bretonnian Exiles list instead.
@@glyngreen538 Bret infantry feel good in a very brettonian way too. Low ws, pathetic ld, horde, levies, warband etc. lots of rules to take into account when deploying. State troops have nothing really expressive or interesting in their rules, extra ws and ld… but they need something to make them more interesting if not stronger
Veteran State troops should get heavy armour as standard - they're just too expensive as it is.
I agree. It makes sense in the lore too. A block of halberdiers with their steel breastplates marching up the board is great
@@bobskywalker2707 Yep and like in Renaissance armies the best and longest serving soldiers got the best kit! I think Empire State Troops should get drilled as standard to make them at least equivalent to Bretonnian Men at Arms, and Vets should get Drilled and Veteran too. Its beyond fluffy and lore accurate and its not overpowered either. C'mon GW!
Hey Mordian, warlord sells a landshnekt starter army for pike and shotte that would be a great place to start an empire army. They mostly have spears(pikes) but the zwiehanders could easily be used as halberd stand ins
I just bought this. There are 6x halbards in this starter set, so enough for a detachment (with some command?). Also the 24x crossbows/handgunners can be like 24 crossbows and use some of the 96x spear bodies as ~12 more handguns with the handgun that is on the spear sprue.
so you say i can use detatchments to build myself some Tercios?
now that sounds interesting
Love your vid buddy, great deep dive, into the fantastic old world launch, keep it up dude, brilliant stuff!!!
Glad to see you making old world videos! Out of the 4 main settings for Warhammer, the old world is definitely my favorite.
Honestly with the if you kill the first line he cant atack i agree on spears, the main damage should come from eigther shooting or from cavalry units ,things that can push the enemy and suffer minimal loses.
Loving it you're going empire, going to get to watch you develop as I try to do the same building up my wissenland state forces.
A good video idea would be covering all the 3D print options given the lack of GW empire models right now
i love your doing oldworld! thanks
Gryphon standard would be a good choice for the veteran state troopers, I think. It doubles the rank bonus. With it on the standard bearer, the unit could passively get up to +6 on combat results without further buffs: 1 close order, 2 ranks, 1 standard, 2 griffon standard. Add a BSB (on a demigryph - it works) with war banner for another +2, and with Vet Spearmen, the second row might even add +1 or 2 if they get lucky.
Excellent video keep em coming!
State troops ready!
I miss my stirland spearmen and bowmen army now. In there dirty , grubby cheep cloths lmao 🤣 cannons sir ! Guns you say ? We can’t afford those. Shoes 👞 are a bit pricy too
Robert the poor and and his stirland state peasants militia may return
Decent review, 2 things I keyed up on was getting the charge off doesnt guarantee that you strike first as initiative is how you determine who goes first mainly, charging does give you a bonus but not guaranteed. Second thing is saying basic state troops only being 5 points per model compared to veterans being 10 is misleading because youd still buy the spears and shields for the basic guys too. Every army will need humble troopers to win games.
The +1 ws is a no-brainer pick imo. Against better regular troops, it'll easily be the biggest difference for them not getting slaughtered. It's of course a different story with the more elite units.
We're back to the defensive line of infantry for Empire:
The sweet spot seems to be 7x5 or 6x5 formation with spears, shields and going vet (including any characters, say a demigryph character).
Decent size for forcing break tests, 6-14 reserve troopers for not loosing rank bonus.
Most units will have 4-5 cav front and 6-8 infantry front so you're maximising second rank attacks, if you're lucky.
I’ve used 7 x 4 and it wasn’t quite big enough, I’ll try 7 x 5 next time.
Nice! Love to see Warhammer fantasy content!
I'm a long time Brettonian player, and when I hear Mordian's videos, it makes me want to journey north and join the Empire.
I think you mean east. Always unto the east lol
FOR THE EMPEROR! (A different one).
Emperors...there's no one on the throne at the moment, many claimants ,so up to your chosen electoral count to take it!
Best overall item for champs (if you’ve got points to spare) seems to be the humble common charmed shield at 5 points
You get a once per game 5+ ward so you can mess with your opponents attack allocations every once in a while either forcing too many (to only cause 1 effective wound) or apply to little and then your champ survives to strike back next round
Magic weapons are just not worth it in general for champs but the biting blade @15 points S user Ap -2/Ab1 can be good on some of your more elite S4 units (especially the multi wound demigryph champ)
There is official art with state troops in what looks like heavy armor, I hope that becomes a possibility in the future with veteran troops to upgrade and would look cool.
Also, I heard an interesting strategy of using shields on halberds and going HW/shield first round so more survive if you get charged and using halberds in later combats. Something to consider.
It's finally happening !!!
Choo choo goes the hype train!
I had a huge Empire army at one point. Sold em off so I could Dark Elves. Was a very competitive player at the time so needed an army that I could really cheese out.
I love the smell of faith, steel and gunpowder in the morning.
Musicians do indeed break ties in this edition!
Standards I'm musing on: Razor Standard, 40 points, gives the unit Armourbane 2. Helpful for a spear unit. War Banner, 25 points, simply +1 combat resolution.
I was going to go with 24 Veterans equipped with Helberds, but you made me rethink to go for Spears for higher durability, and extra rank.
My experience is that, once you start adding detachments in, you end up spending a lot of points for essentially one combat unit, so it's best to keep the upgrades to a minimum - no drilled veterans for me at first. I think I have enough state troops for one unit of each weapon combination - but most likely I'll break the halberds unit up into detachments to support the others, and some Greatswords. For me, halberdiers are the classic detachment, to make the most of the initiative bonus for charging to try to avoid them being slaughtered first. Have to admit to being a bit concerned to how well the state troops will last in a protracted combat. I think they might die quickly...
They are pricy for what they are. I have the feeling this is not going to be the edition of big blocks of state troops, sadly.
I want to see 2000 pts FULL STATE TROOPS for the Warhammer Old world fight!!!!
Remember that spears can't make a supporting attack on a turn they charge! So they lose all their efficiency if they have to push forward and make charges. Honestly the equipment you take looks to matter way less than how you decide to use the unit. Like you said, halberds are for charging forward and dealing damage, spears are for taking charges and holding areas of the board, and sword n' board is the most durable per point, while still being efficient on the charge (probably the best counter charge detachment).
And don't sleep on the veteran special rule! Fear and terror are both much more impactful then in 8th and rerolling panic and rally tests is great!
Excellent video, really enjoyed the pacing and quality. Only issue is you keep referring to weapon skill and ballistic skill as "3+", "4+" etc. I know this is a habit from 40k, but it could potentially be confusing for newer players.
Would a second line of Halberdiers be a good option to swing around the flanks with once the spear line has taken the impact of the enemy?
Yes!
Back in the day, you'd have Spearmen take the charge and Halberdier Detchments counter charge and slam into the flank(s). It's glorious.
The cost of these guys isn’t really an issue. You’ve got to spend it anyway as a core tax. One big expensive block, with small hitty detachments is highly likely to be the way empire lists go
@MordianGlory I have had a look and from my opinion Sword of might is the best sword to take on champions with a 25 pt limit and War banner is just a great take
In the age of pike and shot spears are your go to lol
Can you take 2 detachments per regimental unit? Oldworld Army Builder seems to lock me at 1
Musicians do make you win a draw ;)
I can imagine sinking 500 points in a veteran halberdier unit, using it a hero bus. Throw in a cheapish hero with a decent magic item or two or a wizard. Throw in a detachment, and you have yourself an anchor.
haha i am not gonna get into the old world, but I do have some Mordheim bands, including and ostland band. I am just gonna focuss on the skirmish version to satisfy my nostalgia
Pikemen mercenaries are going to be Epic tier then...
But for Empire the obvious answer is Veteran Spear to hold the line and 2 Smaller Halberd Detachments to counter charge the enrmy flanks.
I wonder if halberd hordes with minimal upgrades still trade better at the end of the day. It really depends on how native armor piercing works which I frankly don't know.
I've played one game, my dwarves vs my brothers high elves... We probably got loads wrong but we really rate AP and armour bane, Heavy armour is a big deal. In a lot of combats we just bouced off each other without massive causities, even with him mostly striking first.
yes
With lances now requiring 1 hand, giving +1 init and 2 ranks fight when charged, this is a no brainer
A bit annoying that there's no benefit to hand weapon and shield anymore.
To me that's a good change. Hand weapon+shield used to render the other options (especially spears) useless. The infantry blocks are usually just anvil units and hw+sh did that better than getting couple s3 hits more. Now the basic units fight and there's a bit more nyance what to go for.
Summoning the elector counts? that's one way to start one hell of a battle
Laugh in grail knight
Can Free Companys be Upgraded to Vetrans?
Musicians still let you win drawn combat
Does the standard bearer and musician get to attack even if the first rank is wiped out?
No... the next rank picks up the standard and instrument when they move up
@@Madlarkin00 righty. I hope they draw straws...🙃
A BSB is definitely mandatory for state troops.
I may not care about the old world, especially with this further back in time setting, as much as i enjoy 40K and AOS but it's always cool to see you cover more stuff
I think both spear and halberds are a trap. On a block of 30 that's an extra 30 points. If they're veterans it's a extra 60. That's 120 points across to units.
For 30 points I can get a ruby ring which will do more damage. Or I can take additional troops can keep rank bonus for longer.
State troops are static res blocks. Trying to improve their combat damage isn't worth the points.
Take both
Those aren't bamboo spears.....
So swordsmen are essentially useless?
Good for cheap flanking detachments that disrupt the enemy ranks.
First off:
We are pre-Magnus. These shouldn't be called State Troops!
To iterate further on this.
They could've simply named normal State Troops conscripts, maybe sidegrading or nerfing them slightly in the process and the State Troop Veterans just Veterans. Whilst at it, you could roll Greatswords into the Vets by giving them access to heavy armor and Greatweapons (possibly making them Special and dropping the per 1000pts limits). Overall this would represent the pre-Magnus armies, which are still feudal-ish levvies and not yet professional armies. Gameplay wise it would mean a shift to less quality but more options (due to the armies of the empire being less codified).
Where are the rules from!?!? Give us a link please!
Guerrilla Miniature Games
spears only fight in two ranks when charged
No, they get the FIER special rule, that’s not limited just to the round they get charged. The +1 initiative bonus is however only on the round they were charged.
@@anglecynn927 Sort of right, they cant make a supporting attack when charging, FIER is a supporting attack, so on the charge they don't get the extra rank, but after that if the only give ground or follow up they would get it.
Interestingly I guess a spear block charging absolutely sucks against a smaller foot print unit like a character lol
Obligatory Comment 🫡
Title is kinda missleading. 😅
Fixed that, please LAMBAST ME!
Missile'ading one might say. 😉
They are based in landsknecht and even veterans don't get acces to heavy armor. It's kinda weird.
Weapon Skill of 3+ ??
You mean, Weapon Skill 3. No plus.
Apologies, Slip of the tongue from playing so much 40k!
A good thing to remember for all WHFB, WHTOW and even 9th age players - Weapon skill does not mean shit. Seriously, it's probably the worst stat you could pay for, with only initiative on mages/great weapon units and Ballistic skill on units without ranged weapons being worse.
You hit everything on 4+ anyway and getting WS4 means that trash units are hitting you slighly worse and elite units don't see a difference. Empire units die like trash regardless of their WS.
Strength and Toughness are the best combat stats, with Movement and Leadership being the best stats overall. Unless your unit already has strength 6+, take extra strength if you have the option.
ok just stop talking WS 4+ or 3+ this is reserved to rolls on dices not to stats it make absolutely no sense to say this model have a WS 3+ its a weapon skill of 3 thats all.
Been amusing watching all the 40K simps jump across to GWs latest soon to be dumpster fire