Battlestar Galactica: The Battle of New Caprica | Battle Review/Analysis
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
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Spacedock delves into one of the best depicted space battles ever put to screen. #battlestargalactica
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Can you Please make a video about the different warships roles in scifi battles like you did for frigates
Please make some videos about the new Dune ships! I'm surprised not many sci fi channel are talking about it.
Adama: “You did it. You brought 'em home, Saul.”
Tigh: “Not all of them.”
Gets me every time.
It was Adama's look back as he got carried away by the celebrating crowd and Starbuck choking back tears too. The contrast of absolute jubilation against complete despair in the same moment.
The despair as Galactica was about to breath its last, followed by the pounding of war drums as Pegasus roared in for the rescue. Thank you Ronald D. Moore & Bear McCreary.
The music in this series was one of the best characters.
@@MonkeyJedi99 Agreed, and that's in a series full of great characters. I still listen to the soundtrack to this day, and "Storming New Caprica" is easily near the top of my list.
@@MonkeyJedi99 In McCreary we trust
Bear is a legend
I firmly believed that I would never be more stunned by a moment in a space battle on television than when Captain Hiroshi rammed the Churchill into the Roanoke in "Severed Dreams" on "Babylon 5". That belief was absolutely shattered by the "Adama Maneuver".
I still get teary eyed when the Churchill hits the Roanoke though. "We've got fire on all decks now."
Severed dreams is just pinacle of scifi television. Change my mind.
Jumping into and out of the atmosphere with a capital ship. One of the balliest moves in science fiction!!
I am not a physicist but I read somewhere that the fall of a ship that big would have broken it up. Don't know how much of that is true.
Babylon 5 only did it with the White Star. Not a huge hulk like this.
@Necromonger69 Hard to tell without knowing the materials used to build it. Plus technically it didn't perform a reentry, it just teleported close enough to the ground and started free falling with 0 initial speed. So maybe she didn't even reach terminal velocity by the time she jumped again.
@@Necromonger69 well, the show did share the consequences of such manoeuvre practically 'break galactica's spine' in later episodes. so much so they had to use cylon's living metal tech to try keep the ship in one piece or else it breaks apart.
@Necromonger69 That's science fiction for you. Don't worry about plausibility too much and just enjoy the spectacle.
If it isn't Dan's favourite battle again
I can hear Daniel screaming from The Sojourn's channel...
RIP spacedock Daniel
So he left this channel to go do Sojourn?
@@fieldmarshalbaltimore1329 yep
@@robwalsh9843 sad
Could you imagine what being one of those Viper pilots must've been like? Jumping into a chaotic situation, fling over the sides, and having only seconds to get yourself oriented and organized enough to execute the ground strikes while also fighting for air superiority?! Baller!
8:58 - How the heck have I never noticed the Pan-Am Airlines logo on that Colonial ship before today? 🤣
"Well, this ought to be different." -- Hot Dog
And damn right he was.
Truly one of the most understated lines.
It's funny that many people bash the writing for having Lee perform a maneuver that destroyed the Pegasus.
Behind the scenes, it was rumored or mentioned that the Pegasus (and its scenery) significantly increased the show's production costs. When Season 3 was approaching, it was decided to eliminate the Pegasus for budgetary reasons.
If that is true, they did a good job in giving the Pegasus a wonderful send-off.
She died how Helena Cain would've wanted her to go: taking the enemy with her in a blaze of glory.
Lee yoloing the Pegasus was in line with his character. Since he isn't a capital ship officer and he wanted to save his Dad. Adama knew this instantly when he saw Pegasus FTL in and knew his son's intentions (and likely limitations in tactics & strategy).
I've not heard the argument that the Pegasus would actually have changed very little in the rest of the BSG saga and I see it now. It wouldn't have swayed any of the remaining battles and would have just arrived at Earth intact rather than breaking itself on it's final jump. It's onboard Viper factory was largely irrelevant as the Colonial Fleet was essentially at full strength on Vipers as they had to amalgamate the two wings onto one ship and they likely had a pilot bottle neck rather than a plane one.
You're close. They only had so much stage space. They needed the space devoted to the Pegasus to become the sets for the Cylon Basestar. So they destroyed the Pegasus in battle to reclaim the production space.
I still see people calling Lee being "the worst Battlestar captain ever."
It's like they forgot "The Captain's Hand" ever happened. If Lee was really that bad, Pegasus would had been destroyed in the Battle of the Binary Star System. Pegasus was ambush by superior force, and was hit by nukes multiple times before Lee got command. He end up getting the ship out alive, and give the Cylons a bleeding nose in return.
We only see Lee command Pegasus into battle 3 times. outside of Battle of New Caprica, the other two are either "safe the ship from a disaster caused by others" or "a complete mission success".
That's not a battle record I will call someone "the worst Battlestar captain ever" for.
@@Negativvv Some could argue that having the Pegasus survive might have been better, but from a show's production standpoint, they would have to almost dump out all the sets that they had for the Galactica to be replaced for the Pegasus, which would have been very expensive. It was pretty much the writers' intention that one Battlestar would have been wrecked or wouldn't survive the battle, especially against 4 or 6 basestars (A good Kobayashi Maru scenario). At least they kept some of the sets preserved for the Razor episode. :)
This show is infinitely rewatchable. Possibly my favorite space setting ever.
fun fact: in the miniseries they talk about syncing up FTL's on the Galactica's first jump, it implies that the Galactica has two FTL maybe a main and backup or maybe two that are used at the same time for efficiency. but with this little bit of knowledge is probably how the Galactica was able to jump right after completing its first jump
I don't know if it's canon, but I remember seeing a Galactica's cross section image, and it has two FTL cores, the "main core" at the front, and the "dump core" at the back. It probably has to do with how the tech works, they must operate in pairs.
@@moteroargentino7944 My complete guess is perhaps due to the time period Galactica was designed in. Whenever she jumps she can spool a second instant jump point along with the first initial jump at the same time as a "oh shit rewind button".
i think the reason they never did quick jumps was A. there inability to plot a position quickly and B. the civilian ships weren't equipped for it. The military jump drives appear to be able to jump rapidly (such as when they used raptors to return to caprica) so it would suggest jumping was limited by the human factor rather then a technological one
@@apollo4619 It is logical. For cases such as an emergency retreat after jumping into a hot zone.
@@apollo4619 this actually makes perfect sense in regards to the realities of the first Cylon war. Having an instant get out of dodge capability would be invaluable. Since you know the coordinates of where you came from, and where you plotted to, there wouldn't be any time needed for that "oh shit" button.
See also: Omega 13 in Galaxy Quest.
Well, I guess I'm rewatching Battlestar Galactica again for the next few weeks
It'd be interesting to analyze the Admiral Caine/Pegasus introduction arc. In particular, the final battle and how the focus wasn't whether or not the two ships will defeat the resurrection ship, but rather how the battle would still determine the outcome of the future of the fleet by the tensions and decisions Caine and Adama made throughout. Also the visualization of Lee Adama suffocating in space by floating/drowning in water is probably some of the best visual depictions of a feeling on TV.
Yeah - I remember feeling bliss when the battle was shown from behind him, when he was floating in space, cause I put myself in his place, and just admire the beaty of this scenery.
That ramming scene with that soundtrack though. Masterpiece!
I see spacedock. I click play.
This battle is, without a doubt, one of my all time favorite moments in all of FICTION, period.
I absolutely love the "Adama Maneuver". It's a high risk, high reward maneuver that needs absolute faith by the admiral in his ship and its crew and I think that's the most amazing part. William Adama knows his ship and his crew to the point that he knows they can pull this off. Even so, they get caught by the overwhelming firepower of the Cylons until Lee Adama comes in guns blazing.
Sidenote: I just love how Lee gets fat during this story arc, showing how the body is affected by the mind.
Everyone says how Lee throwing away the Pegasus was the worst crime ever, and yet people dont seem to realize that at this point, experienced crew and leadership is arguably an even greater resource. What would the Pegasus be if it was alone and without an experienced and competent crew?
People are resources too
I love the bagpipe music as the Pegasus crashes into the basestar
This scene is one of those greats in film that always just makes you feel something.
Putting aside the bad use of the Pegasus in the rescue, it is a great moment of hopelessness, new hope, and sacrifice.
BUCKET DROOOOOOOOOP!!!!!!
Now, I do think both Battlestars surviving would've been helpful, but I understand, from a story angle, the writers wanted to remove Pegasus from the narrative.
THAT SAID, they could've shown a little more to explain the status of the two ships- even if just in the background. There was supposed to be a line about how Galactica didn't QUITE calculate the jump back above New Caprica right, and they had to burn out of the upper atmosphere, (causing stress and giving the Cylons time to reposition), but it didn't make the final cut. Likewise, maybe a few screens in the back showing that Pegasus's FTL had been destroyed (or even one of the skinjobs stating that FTLs were priority targets)
But alas, the needs of the story/writers, and Lee's minimal experience as a capital ship commander in combat, brought Pyrrhus to this battle.
And Lloyd Bridges wasn't around to reprise his "disappearing Pegasus" maneuver from the original series.
tbf, a previous episode (and later reinforced by Razor) highlighted the fragility of Pegasus' FTL system. Without it being stated outright on-screen one can assume they hit a similar issue, with the compounding issue of being undercrewed and what damage control teams they had being stretched thin dealing with all the other damage. Could have been clearly stated, but paying attention to seemingly minor or one-off details like that was a big part of the series right from the start and continued to be so. Nobody had to outright mention the Adama Maneuver when discussing what led to Galactica breaking her back, anyone who was watching already knew that was a huge contributing factor to it.
@@TimberWolf99 And that's why I a screen in the back showing the FTL offline or an offhand comment; sure, Pegasus was taking a pounding (because Lee was a bit of an idiot; PIS or lack of training in full effect), but that they abandoned her needed a little "whyfore" in my opinion (and frankly, not just mine- the message boards were quite vocal when it aired).
Also, tanking 2-3 nukes and getting fixed (at least nominally) in a few minutes doesn't seem to indicate fragility- kinda the opposite. Now, maybe the repairs weren't ever finished and Pegasus's FTL was a duct tape job post The Captain's Hand- but that's supposition as well.
The Pegasus could have more realistically been destroyed in the Battle of the Ionian Nebula defending the incapacitated civilian fleet from overwhelming cylon forces. IRL they needed the sound stage space for the basestar interiors.
One of the things about the Insurgency that was used to effect was that of suicide bombers.
So much discussion came out from that, especially with events happening in the Iraq.
As for the Adama Maneuver, i remember my jaw hitting the ground at the shear about BALLS that took to Jump into atmosphere.
“Yep,” i said. “You’d never see THAT in Start Trek…”
the adama maneuver almost failed because the sheer size of adama's balls was making the battlestar fall much faster.
Objects fall at the same speed regardless of their weight...
Adama’s balls are so legendary they defy physics.
@martinsriber7760 Generally, yes, but not always. If there's significant drag, for example a parachute or a massive 1,5 km spaceship, weight might be a factor. But technically it's not that it's "falling faster", but rather it's weight is overcoming the drag.
@@moteroargentino7944 I am aware of that. It's just irrelevant in this scenario.
The Adama maneuver was somewhat creative, but it can’t compare to the Holdo maneuver, if everyone answers honestly.
I NEVER get tired of watching the sequence of Galactica jumping into to high atmosphere and then gravity dropping before it jumps out at the last second, leaving a vacuum of air and space. That sequence was so well done. It stands up to this day VFX wise and is my favorite science fiction scene on TV of all time.
AND THEN..
Pegasus' rescue and wrecking of the base stars before sacrificing itself was almost as good. It was more epic and a great send off to Beauty. Press F.
this is trully one of the gratest acion setpieces of all sci-fi only the expanse an perhaps some stargate may contend in my opinion. I personally adore it when established rules are used in interesting and suprising ways, like Roci fireing a railgun to tow a skiff, Deadalous teleporting nukes on hiveships or the adama manouvre
The in atmosphere FTL jump was my favorite part of the battle. No other sci-fi shows can't beat that.
Another way to handle the destruction of the Pegasus is *random bad luck* by having a BaseStar _accidentally_ jump in directly in its path and the collision cripple the Pegasus.
That gives the "if only" _they could have won this_ if the ship had been a hundred metres to the side.
Have Apollo use a sound strategy and be winning the battle up until that moment when the dice just landed the wrong way and he got snake eyes.
He's lined up the BaseStars on approach so that they are in a line obscuring each other from him and can't bring their full firepower to bear because they're blocking each other (having been focused on Galactica in a perpendicular firing line formation to pound Galactica with concentrated fire) and he's taking them out one by one with everything Pegasus has got.
Such as firing nukes with a simultaneous salvo of regular missiles to soak up the AA, through the gaps to detonate near BaseStars further back in the line formation to take out their raiders and mess with their systems _as his opening move._ ....
Or a couple of nuke armed Raptors jumping in and going 'suprise' while also launching drones ect to confuse the Cylons for a few seconds.
Basically a clever strategy so the fans don't want Apollo court-martialled.
Apollo's plan is working, the Cylons have been put in a bad position and his misdirection (the hallmark of all the BSG wins against the odds) is working.
Remember the Cylons expected to take on both BattleStars at once, they would have a lot of firepower there, that's why Galactica is taking such a hit.
Then the BaseStar reserves jump in but Apollo had planned for that as it was only two BaseStars ...
"Watch the countdown clock, the two BaseStars guarding the far side of the planet will jump in blind in _X_ (nods to Sharon).
Have the tubes reloaded with nukes by then.
Remember we can take them as long as we take down at least _Y_ BaseStars already here beforehand."
It's working, the first BaseStar went up straight away with bullseyes on its central junction, and others are variously damaged and crippled as they get hit with overshots from the first BaseStar.
They stop firing on Galactica as they desperately manoeuvre to try and get clear shots at Pegasus while false drone readings have them confused.
Raptors had created fake Pegasus readings opposite side from Galactica and then on the far side of the firing line of BaseStars, so the Cylons assumed the readings of the real Pegasus were another fake until the BaseStar first in line could see it directly, which was the same moment it started taking hits.
Have it a showcase of how Raptors as scouts and EW platforms (and stand off launchers) are useful in harrassment if used intelligently.
They've thrown the Cylons into disarray and inflicted enough damage to the BaseStars present that the reinforcements can be handled.
Except when the two BaseStars jump in one is in a direct collision course and it's not a deliberate kamikaze strategy by the Cylons - the BaseStar also tries to evade but its too late for both ships.
The BaseStar actually does more damage by trying to get out of the way as one of its spires impacts behind the armoured head of Pegasus, hitting the flank of the ship that's not as reinforced and going in deep, maybe hitting the engine clusters.
[this is to explain while later on Galactica can ram the station, the prow of the ship is tough enough, in _this case_ it was a offside hit]. It could also jump in with its spires entangled or whatever, but that might give the impression it was deliberate. This wasn't superior Cylon planning, this was a fluke.
The BaseStar is completely destroyed and Pegasus is now a write off, it's never going to jump again (at least not with battlefield repairs).
*How the dialogue could play out.*
"Frack..damage report"
"The lower brace [sound of horror] _is gone,_... we even get the jump drives back online, we're splitting in two."
Apollo makes the call to abandon ship and is smart about that as well.
Over the PA: "Raptors launch at your call, the shuttles jump from inside the flight pods once the Raptors are gone [foreshadowing the _final_ battle]. It doesn't matter anymore.
There's nothing that can save her.
(Save yourselves, we still need you for Galactica.)"
Then to the Bridge crew "Is Galactica going to make it? We need to buy them the time"
Looks at Pegasus "The cost has already been too high, let's at least make it worth it."
Minor character(s) from Pegasus "Galactica's starting to spool up its jump drives.
We can set everything here to automatic. Galactica needs you too sir, go. We'll leave _when we're able."_
Apollo understands "you sure...?" and salutes them with tears in the corners of his eyes.
And then runs like hell for his Raptor.
The minor characters as they aim Pegasus to inflict maximum damage on the remaining BaseStars "Y'know we almost had this. Luck is .... well luck."
[What about the second BaseStar that jumped in near but didn't collide? The remaining crew could wait till everyone's clear and then fire all the nukes at too close a range at it]
Then Pegasus's sacrifice isn't like the death of a character in the Aliens franchise, ie down to their own stupidity.
It's fate cruelly taking down a magnificent character when they had so much potential left, but they still make a damn good accounting of themselves.
It's a heroic death.
This was historical for me.This was so clutch
The only big space fights that match up after this was The Battle of the Citadel in the first Mass Effect and The Battle of Xandar in GOTG and Nemesis Games in The Expanse with the Rocinante vs the Free Navy
I wasn't a believer of the series at first, however once I gave it a chance I WAS HOOKED! Close friends as well had come on board. If you've never seen this series in its entirety, what are you waiting for! Great acting, costumes, effects, action, writing, and most of all the cliffhangers will blow you away.
The Cylons didn't randomly appear at the nebula, a Six detonated a stolen nuke on cloud 9. It took over a year for the radiation to be picked up.
The Cylons were a light year away, and that’s how long it took the EM from the blast to reach them.
There are two moments in sci-fi that, no matter how many times I've watched them, still both gives me goosebumps and make my breath catch. One is the Adams Maneuver. The other is Sheridan deciding to ram the last defense sattelite over earth in Babylon 5. If you know you know
The 3-Episode arc doing a lot of setup, establishing the goals and circumstances ,building up tension and finally concluding in a final big clash... I just realized that this also exactly what was done in Andor, but basically 3 times. It really works well.
A lot of fans are "angry" at Lee for Pegasus to safe Galactica, but I think it was the right thing to do. The Galactica had lots of valuable personnel - and Adama being the most prominent one, of course - and without it, it would be incredible hard to maintain the military capabilities of the survivors. They are always going to be outgunned by the Cylons, they need the people that have the experience to improvise and to train new people. If it was just about the ships, of course Pegasus is the better pick, but it wasn't.
Sigh I've been putting off yet another rewatch but here we are. Great vid, thanks.
As much as I love the galactica itself it still BAFFLES ME that they sacrificed the Pegasus...that thing was an absolute POWERHOUSE of a ship and it just felt...wasteful that they charge it into a base star. I will say that I agree that the ''Adama maneuver'' is in fact one of the single most bad ass things I have ever seen in sci-fi.
It was all to save Galactica too.
I mean, the civilian evacuation was fully underway and Base Stars occupied with Galactica. Adama's skeleton crew should've hopped on a raptor and evaced just as Lee did.
It would have made better sense story wise if Adama used Pegasus for the attack rather than Galactica but have Pegasus still be destroyed after the maneuver and battle damage. It always looked like Galatica suffered more damage during the attack then Pegasus and yet that ship was destroyed?
Pegasus was better than Galactica yes, but to call her a "powerhouse" is a bit of a stretch. As a battlestar, she was nothing extraordinary. She had about the same amount of main guns and PDCs as an active Jupiter class, but for a larger hull, which was occupied mostly by viper manufacturing facilities anyways. She was basically a factory with a battlestar built around it.
The true powerhouse would've been a warstar, which was basically a battlestar on steroids. With one of those the civilian fleet would've been untouchable.
This was really great! I'd love to see more battle breakdowns like this one.
The last few episodes of the series may have been a confusing plodding mess, but Gods damn if the “ships flying into the sun accompanies by the 70s show’s music unaltered” doesn’t give you goosebumps, you have no heart.
Wow. I just recently was watching BSG clips again, was searching for your original video on the battle and found this uploaded recently instead. It's like fate
This battle will never fail to piss of a BSG fan. The battle itself is visually beautiful, thrilling and tense throughout, and Pegasus rushing with guns blazing is forever in the fan hall of fame. Which makes discarding the Pegasus a few minutes later like it was a common trash barge all the more infuriating. Pegasus had to go because the show is literally called Battlestar Galactica, but did it have to go like that? No it didn't.
They could have reversed the ships and still had Pegasus be destroyed for the story. That would have been more believable to me. It always looked like Galactica took more damage than Pegasus and yet Pegasus was destroyed?
"Damn you Lee"
a breath later "Thank you Lee"
The true MVP of this battle is whoever calculated both of Galactica's jumps. Wouldn't be half surprised if it was the doc because that was absolute precision
Its nice to see someone bring up how having a nice shiny newer ship survive the battle doesn't mean much if all the most experienced people went down with Galactica.
Adam was definitely a resource that the fleet could not afford to loose in the long run and like you said not much would have changed if Pegasus survived, likely still would have suffered the same fate as the rest of the fleet in the final episode.
That atmospheric jump!
Well done Lee. you purposefully destroyed a superior Battlestar to bale out an older and inferior one just to save your daddy. Brilliant military decision.
bail
Exactly 👍🏼
Not trying to fight or insult but I am curious to your military experience to make that claim. You need to look at all factors. Yes the Pegasus was newer and technically more capable, but he lost the ship but save what reduced crew was on board. He saved a fully crewed Galactica, and that's more than just a ship, it's a symbol of hope. It's not just about the equipment, it's also about the people.
That kind of makes it clear that Lee is *NOT* a brilliant military strategist. They’d been setting the stage that he really shouldn’t be a ship captain for a while.
@@bull614why do you think Galactica was fully crewed?
The Galactica jumping in is just hair raisingly good. If anyone is watching this and doesn't get the big deal, watch the series and see how you feel when you get to this pint
I need to rewatch this series...
BSG is really good. I gotta get around to rewatching it
BSG.....the best docu-drama ever!
Greatest sci fi television show made
Oof that Deadlock music hitting hard again. What I would give for an Ace Combat style game set in the First Cylon War with realistic Newtonian physics.
the loss of Adritatic the Jenus class havy cruisser in the algie nebula was also big blow for the fleet great show still love it
Not quite in your purview but I would love a top ten “the cavalry is here” moments in sci-fi space combat. I am a sucker for when reinforcements show up at the 11th hour.
Putting key people on the ground unintentionally was the best strategy. The first time watching on original broadcast seeing the Galactica falling in flames was somthing there was actually a moment when it felt like is this it is it going to hit ground and that will be the end of the Galactica ? Were they going to re name the Pegasus to Galactica? Then that jump at the last second . I kind of wondered if it would not have been a good idea to transfer the crews to Pegasus and re name her since it was a better in designed ship but not in plot armor.
“All hands, brace for turbulence.”
2:02 I think this the single greatest argument for why Pegasus was sacrified instead of Galatica.
It could draw *a lot* of fire and clear a path **without** losing a lot of crew members.
Galatica couldn't be used in the same capacity without a lot of crew memebers dying, which is why Pegasus made the sacrifice.
I think the only narrative mistake was making it seem like a "spur of the moment" decision from Lee, instead of part of a well crafted plan.
The Battle of New Caprica can only be classed as a pyrrhic Colonial victory. They rescued most of the civilians and civilians ships of of New Caprica, but they lost their most advanced battlestar - the one that had the best weaponry, and the one with the ability to build new vipers.
Still one of the things I've ever watched on television. Probably top 3 episodes of bsg imo.
That was so good.
Another thing, it showed how important Lee and Bill Adama are to each other. The P is the ship that should have made the run. Lee should have let them go.
Is that time of the year were Dan must have a video about New Caprica out.
damn you! Now I have to get out the DVDs and rewatch the whole show again... oh well...
i have no knowledge of bs galactica but from what you said in the beginning of this vid the battlestars gave me major dreadnought heavy cruiser vibes. A very old vessel, still serving, has a newer variant that requires less crew because of automation. It even kinda looks like a dreadnought
Please look into space battles in the Hyperion books. They are quite unique. Very long range. Light speed lag.
I wonder if we’ll ever get such an amazing series as the BSG reboot in our lifetimes. How is it even possible to top this.
The only possible difference hinges on one question. Would the Pegasus have been able to take the punishment during the attack on the Cylon colony?
Yes, the Pegasus is bigger and better armed, but looking at the punishment the Galactica takes there brings up the question if the Pegasus could take the same punishment with it's FTL drive intact?
While I have my doubts, I'm not sure about the answer.
The larger figther wing and larger armament might have led to less armor and less structural strength compared to older battlestars like the Galactica. With a larger contingent of point defence guns and better targeting systems the designers might have assumed a battlestar like the Pegasus would take fewer hits.
A lot of 'mights' in here.
That leaves the question aside of they would have sacrificed a flight pod to have the Raptors jump from inside the flight pod.
And the question if they would have even attacked the Cylon Colony in the first place. By the end of the series it was clear the Galactica was nearing her end. Would they have made the same attempt with a fully functional Pegasus? Not knowing it that would take out all the enemy Cylons? Would they have given up their technology?
This is a case of the Mercury class being a straight and direct upgrade over the Jupiter. (Pegasus vs Galactica)
Galactica was an old ship and when she was being decommissioned into a museum ship much of the excess armor and almost all of the guns and ammo were stripped out as appropriate for a museum.
The Mercury class was bigger, faster, more heavily armed, better, and more-er-est than the its predecessor in every way. It had thicker armor and heavier guns. Had 4x the flight pods given that Galactica only had one; and critically for the story and future of humanity had the ability to build new fighters and small craft(maybe even larger ships but that's a stretch).
The one possible area that could be a win is the Galactica's baked in analog design. The Mercury class was designed and built in an era where humanity was juuuuuust starting to forget the risks of a networked ship when fighting enemies that are far more technically advanced than you are. It's hard to out cyber a computer...
But other than the one weakness, which could be circumvented by air gapping some or all of the systems in the ship, the ONLY reason that they kept the Galactica is because it was the box art for the show and you can't kill off Batman in his own comic.
Lee Adama made what can only be called an oops when he decided to fire the Pegasus out of a Raptor's missile tube.
The way Lee wasted the Pegasus is utterly awful.
The opening salvo of the Pegasus immediately disabled a Basestar from a great distance.
If Lee had the Pegasus keep a distance in a defensive posture, and snipe the basestars with the main batteries from afar, then both battlestars coud have survived with less damage.
The main batteries of the Pegasus could have forced the basestars to pursue the pegasus, drawing them away from the Galactica, since their attrition would be quick under the fire of those battereries.
Nice to have a video that doesn't go out of its way to call Lee a dumbass for sacrificing the Pegasus and instead simply presents it in a neutral fashion.
I love this song from Battlestar Galactica Deadlock
lee, messed up, if we look at this from a tactical point of view, he destroyed one of the 4 base stars as soon as he rocked up, the cylons would have needed to commit at lest 2 of the remaining 3 base stars, but if it was me as the cylons, Galactica was already incapacitate and i would have send all 3 to try and deal with the pegasus, which Lee could have easily dealt with until galactica could have jumped away, as she did anyway.
in all likelihood Lee could have taken another base star out before needing to jump away himself. how i know lore wise and knowing how the story panned out, they needed to get rid of the pegasus, but i remember watching this battle back in the day when it first aired screaming at the screen Why the F did you do that!
don’t get me wrong i still loved watching it and still think it’s one of the best science-fiction battles ever!
Headcanon: no one wants to work anymore
he didn't want the command, this was just....an out that presented itself
The big thing is that in the original show, the Pegasus went down acting as a rear guard for the entire convoy as it escaped with the Galactica as the lead vessel, actually, pretty much as this did it.
This is what they went with, and what we got was a really cool Galactica moment, which the original show never gave us. Although, to be fair, the entire convoy was not on a planet's surface either.
Gotta take into account the surprise factor and the fact that it was a suicide run to measure how powerful Pegasus really was. Battlestar's main guns are used for both offense and defense. She went it firing salvo after salvo, basically only using it's small PDCs for defense. That's why while she shredded the Basestars, she was destroyed as well.
I watched this battle 20years ago and it STILL make my heart pound today... the Adama maneuver make me punch the air.
What's funny is that this isn't even the first time Galactica fell from orbit. According to Battlestar Galactica:Deadlock it also fell from orbit in the first Cylon war while attempting to defend caprica from Cylon Nuclear bombardment
I always thought it would have made more sense for the story if Adama used the Pegasus as the lead vessel in the attack instead of the Galactica. After Galactica jumped off the planet it suffered a ton of damage then Pegasus shows up but somehow that was the Battlestar that got destroyed? It was newer and better armored. It would have made sense if Pegasus suffered that huge barrage of damage after jumping from the surface of New Caprica, have Galactica jump in to attack the Basestars to buy time to evacuate Pegasus before its destruction and then escape. I guess for me the pacing of the battle, visuals and time didn't convey enough damage to the Pegasus to warrant its destruction considering its superiority to Galactica.
A dam fine ship, and a dam fine show
BG is very cool.
Possible Spoilers ahead (but would you be watching the video if you didn't have an idea what happens next).
I suppose another consequence (assuming the fleet gets this far) is Zarek's coup later on occurring on Pegasus rather than Galactica. Galactica was already ailing and the lack of numbers in the coup not helping matters, this made the conspirators more cautious before deciding to try to jump away rather than fight it out against the rest of the fleet, the fight was too fair to really gamble Humanity on. I don't think that they would have been so cautious if they had the Pegasus, which would have been in much better shape than Galactica was and needing less crew to take complete control of the ship due to automation. They would have just blown the Baseship out of the sky as soon as the bridge was taken with the automated gun batteries.
So say we all
The Yamato live action movie on the other hand, did a reverse Adama Maneuver
We can go ahead and ignore "blood and chrome" mini-series that went no-where, as the structural frame of the Battlestar Galactica gives no suggestion of heavy turret placements on the bow-section, as well, the canon-version of the jupiter class battlestar as shown in "razor" (flashback with Adama in the first cylon war) showed how the ship class actual turret placements where. Also, Blood & chrome showed more non-canon idiotic add-ons like the trams moving throughout the ship (horisontal elevators), or how about the double-sized hangar spaces, or the CIC, the lazy basstads didn't even think their show could survive enough to construct a CIC at least partially real.
Also they had to kill Pegasus somehow in the show. Even if it's were stupid, the basestars are no match for Pegasus in this kind of combat. They are designed for long range combat, while pegasus is a brawler, just like other Battlestars. So according to episodes before this, Pegasus shuold have won, but then with Pegasus's manufacturing capabilities they should be able to rearm Galactaci, and even arm some of the other ships. That is also a reason why it seams stupid that they hadn't improved combat capabilities before the cylons came. Pegasus were stated it can basically build even a replica of itself given time... They had months worth of time in that solar system... They would be able to build complete factories...
It still drives me up a wall that Lee didn't bring his Vipers with em so he could save Pegasus and Galactica. (Also Pegasus should have easily been able to take out the base stars without ramming them since it bodied the first one in what? 2 Salvos?)
Apollo & Starbucks vs four Cylon Battlestar with Leader
I REALLY need to catch up and watch this...:(
thank you, so say we all!
we all miss the pegasus!
6 probably not so much
So say we all
Stuart amazing episode and show.
I can't imagine anybody watching this not thinking, why did Lee need to be so reckless with the Pegasus. There are so many reasons why there was no reason for the ship to get destroyed, outside of any story necessity that it does sour an otherwise great episode and story arc.
So, if we have established that the Galactica has to have time to recharge its jump engines. How come it can do two jumps, one almost immediately after the other? There was a whole episode about it being tracked by the cylons and only just having time to jump after recharging its FTL drive. "33" .
Probably one of the most under-talked about consequence of this battle... the absolute turd-slinging wrong that was done to my boy Felix. I mean, he sucks up all the crap he has to to be able to stay in the halls of government to give the rebels the essential information that they need.
Then those same people, that he helped, star chamber him for collaborating with the Cylons (with tacit approval from the top).
Then he gets shunned even though it was proven that he was one of the main reasons that the rescue was successful.
Then he loses a leg due to the actions of someone that turns out to be a Cylon (after which nobody gives a crap).
Then a bunch of people who star chambered him are revealed to be Cylons... and nobody in his Chain of Command gives a crap. Heck, some of them even mock the fact that he lost his leg. And after all that... the same people who condemned him for possibly collaborating with the Cylons were either Cylons themselves... or recommending that they collaborate with Cylons.
Yeah, if I were him, I'd have burned down the fleet around their ears as well.
Honest an ambush by Pegasus staying out of the mele and using it's guns to intercept missiles might have given Galactica evacuation or repair time
what is the music you have as the backing track here
This was the most replayed mission if you play Battlestar Galactica deadlock because a Mercury class at a Jupiter class could have easily taken out for base stars if you knew what you were doing There was no need to sacrifice to Pegasus at all I know it made for interesting television but a lot of us it was just so cringeworthy
To be fair, the game's AI is pretty weak. I have managed to take out four basestars with a single Jupiter with no aircraft. But try to run it against another player, 4v2 they will rip you a new one.
Of course, Lee didn't have the capital command experience; he was a good airwing leader, but that's a different skillset. Hell, what are some Vipers gonna do, solo, against an attack on the RRTF he left behind? Does the RRTF wait for the Vipers to get aboard or otherwise secured, or do they get left behind...?
He needed to 1) bring his figher wing for defense and 2) not make Pegasus a central target, but FOCUS DOWN THE ENEMY. You know what puts less fire on Galactica? *Killing the ships shooting at her.* Seriously, you Alpha-Strike'd one basestar- pivot to the next target and engage. Don't be a damage sponge! Get your flak wall up and GET TO WORK.
@@megan00b8 The only way you pulled that off is with your flak guns. The Jupiter's were WAY over powered. I have done the same.
Use the debris mines to help thin the raiders flak does the rest. Keep the flak going until the baseships run out of missiles. Go in for the kill with missiles and guns.
I will admit one thing I wish the AI was a little stronger a good strategy to overcome the Jupiter's flak guns it move your raiders from high altitude and that have them dive bomb on the top of the Battlestar. I used to do that move all the time to online players.
@@highlander723 no mines either. Just the guns and a lot of flak tricks.
@@megan00b8 No mines.... impressive. Let me tries to take you to pull it off.
BS was always a fav of mine from childhood to the new series. The plot however is limited. Would like to see an alternative version of one BS able to survive, (Pegasus), and build a successful colony in a different galaxy that doesn't loose the technology.
I wonder why they never deployed ftl based weapons, like a nuke they could jump into a fleet formation.
I am disappointed Daniel didn't take the reigns on this after being so passionate about BSG and the Pegasus.
yay battle analysis again
Still think that was the dumbest move sacrificing the Pegasus. Far too shortsighted on Lees behalf.
Another excellent topic 😃
Another question is: should Adama have transferred his flag to Pegasus and sacrificed the Galactica instead?
For me the problem with the 'Battle of New Caprica' is that sacrificing the Pegasus to save the Galactica (a much older, less capable and heavily stripped down vessel) makes absolutely no tactical sense - especially when it has a minimal crew aboard. In every possible respect the Pegasus is a far superior vessel with its only fault is that it is not the star ship of the show. I do get why the production team wanted to write off the Pegasus, but I think the way they did it left a story where Lee Adama disobeyed orders and got the best military asset the Colonials had destroyed while getting off without even facing a tribunal.
It would have been better for the rescue to go ahead with the second two Base Stars jumping in as the Galactica leaves and then have the Cylons track find the fleet rendezvous co-ordinates to jump in while personnel transfers were taking place. In that way you could justify the need of someone to act as a blocker while the Galactica could be on the other side of the fleet or otherwise unable to engage the invading Base Stars. This way the Pegasus could still have its heroic send-off while making sense on a tactical level.
I've always been of the opinion that it would have been the balsiest and greatest TV moment if the roles were reversed and Galactica sacrificed itself to save Pegasus, and have Adama transfer his flag for the rest of the series.
Sure the series is "Battlestar Galactica" but man, they could have worked around that to devise an even greater battle than we got, (which is only rivaled IMO by The Expanse) to be truly beyond competition.