How SPIES ARE FOREVER Defies CLICHÉ With PARODY
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ย. 2024
- Sorry I'm late guys, got a lot on my plate guys; it's hard to juggle work and life.
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Check out this video on Spies are Forever: • Spies Are Forever Decoded
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“Bullet-proof vest! Good, you’re learning,” implies that at some point Cynthia shot Curt when he wasn’t wearing a bullet-proof vest and I think about that occasionally
Spies are Forever does for the spy genre what Twisted did for disney musicals
creating something better than what it was based upon, the true Starkid and Tin Can Bros way
This. This comment.
It blew my mind that they mime a complete James Bond style chase scene with motorcycles, speedboats, and hang gliders in that tiny theater space.
and in such quick succession between vehicles and weapons too!
One of the interesting things about that speech that Curt makes at the end is that it highlights that although Curt and his friends may have "won" in the moment of the show, they ultimately lost in the long run. Curt's job was replaced by computers. People's privacy has been invaded in exactly the way he feared. It's a final subversion of expectations, where the good feeling of having the heroes triumph is tempered by the audience's knowledge of what the future brings.
Nothing better than an "actually we kinda lost..." ending
it's kind of like black friday, where they succeeded in defeating Wiggly in hatchetfield but because Goodman failed they've lost anyway
This ending is explicitly confirmed in TCB’s other projects, specifically Wayward Guide. In the podcast, Artemis mentions “Chimera” as one of the biggest companies in the world. Their tagline, “We got a little bit of everything”.
kind of like the opposite of a bunch of movies where the hero achieves the ultimate goal but chooses to spare the person's life
Ahhh... The subverted good ending, a Hatchetfield tradition (I know this isn't Hatchetfield in any way, shape, or form, but the ending just reminded me of it hahaha)
This is the one about the homosexuals
THE homosexuals
@@Undeniably_Idiotic the HOMOSEXUALS
@@Undeniably_Idiotic ze homosessssials
nah beards are cool when they don't make you look like rasputin and aren't a metaphor for gay repression-depression, so you're good.. as far as I'm aware
My beard makes me look like an oversized leprechaun and is a metaphor for the passage of time
My favourite thing about it is that not only is it a perfect parody of the genre, it also through subversion manages to create a nuanced and compelling gay character and story, something that even things that attempt to do that don’t always manage, and it is simply because that was never the point or focus of the story
making a story about a gay character without mentioning outright that they're gay is a power move
@@Undeniably_Idiotic absolutely, and part of why it’s so good is because I truly think they didn’t realise how revolutionary what they did was, to them it was just that, subversion of the stereotypes, exploration of certain subtext/concepts in spy movies, but because they did it respectfully and without putting all the focus on it or making fun of it, they ended up creating fantastic gay representation
@@threeleggedcatTruly. Their other play Solve it Squad also has casual bi representation that isn’t a stereotype. The Starkid musicals are also great at having gay/bi characters just act normal, not made fun of or put on a pedestal. I love how in The Guy who Didn’t Like Musicals, Bill doesn’t like his daughter’s girlfriend and it has nothing to do with his daughter being gay but because her girlfriend is a bad influence. It’s more nuance than lots of shows that only dare to portray perfect gay relationships or shove them to the background.
Fun fact! The prince basically changed actors every show. The filmed version just happened to have corey lubowich that night. There was reportedly a night where the role was played by lauren lopez's pet Chihuahua Diane, which made everybody break character
honestly, the best casting decision
It's been said a million times over by now, but "Not So Bad" is one of the most phenomenal fucking crituiqes of spy clichés I've ever seen and while i understan the hesitancy around covering it it's really sad that it doesn't get more recognition. It makes fun of the borberline fetishisation of the nazis that's present in a lot of spy media. The overuse of symbolism that's so often just played 100% straight, them bringing up the "pros" of the nazis, making them almost sympathetic etc but the cartoonish way they play it makes it obvious that it's not something they stand behind. And the icing on the fucking cake is them Actually Getting People To Join in on the chant!!!! Because the audience has become desensitized to the imagery present!!! It's such a wonderful display of how propaganda works without making it hard to interact with.
Like the levels existant in this number ALONE is incredible, this musical is a gift to mankind and it honestly deserves global recognition. They should play this shit at UN conferences, presidential debates, sports events idc whatever you were going to do is irrelevant next to this masterpeice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Not So Bad is definitely a parody on trying to make a villain feel sympathetic when in reality they really are just in the wrong no matter what way you look at it
reminds me of Mel Brook’s philosophy going into his work (eg. Springtime for Hitler and Germany in The Producers). He wants the world to laugh at and make fun of Nazis.
@@katteather4599Exactly! I think what makes SAF a lot easier to digest to is that it comes After ww2. Most of the jokes are targeted towards the ideology as a whole, sure, but there's an added layer of ridicule towards Nazi apologists/"Neo" Nazis.
Laughter holds so much more power than we give it credit for, and pointing at these people insistent on a "superior race" and idolising the Nazis and laughing at them takes some of their power away
Yeah I mean they even did the dancing swastika like Mel Brooks. I knew as soon as I watched this musical they had to have been inspired by him for what they did with Von Nazi.@@katteather4599
There is also this way of thinking, those where monsters, all Germans have to monster, "I would have never...." compleatly in denial of how strong humans drive for community is and how easy it is to get swamped up and deescalate slowly. Having the chant bit in it tricking the audiance into the same sort of compleatly unreflected cinplience is an act of genius!!!! Is it a deplorable thing to say, yes obviously, but it gets rewarded!!
in the scene at 32:43 when curt moves up the steps to talk to owen about their relationship owen’s gun tilts down to point at curt’s heart… im going insane i love you spies are forever
Love seeing comments pointing out all the tiny details that we sometimes miss! Thanks for this!
1. IMO, this is one of the few musicals where a movie version could work. I can definitely see the movie version expanding on the Owen plot twist more. Maybe take more opportunities that the stage version couldn’t
2. The stair scene is so good. Curt Mega looking up, the lighting showing his face clearly; probably symbolizing how Curt is no longer clouded with grief. Owen looking down, his face shadowed partially covered by smoke; probably symbolizing how Owen is no longer the person Curt loved. Also, Curt is looking up at Owen because in the opening scene itself, it has been established that Owen complements Curt as a spy. Every gap in his skills is filled by Owen. In contrast, Owen is looking down. He is with Chimera now, he thinks he’s above everyone else, including the one he once loved
1. Watching the promo videos for spies are forever are an even closer look as to what the movie version would look like and I love it!
2. The stair scene is INCREDIBLE! There are so many little details that bring the relationship between Curt and Owen to a satisfying end!
It’s a musicaaaaaal❗️ IT’S ABOUT SPIES‼️‼️
forever, forever, forever, forever!!!
dance, dance, dance, dance!!!!
Damned, I almost missed that 😅
Literally if at any point someone had thought to describe Spies Are Forever as "Goldeneye but actually gay" to me, I would've watched it immediately. As it stands, this is the first time I'm seeing anything about this show 😂
this is the first you're seeing it? glad we could introduce you to it!
As a Jew I will say portraying our enemies ourselves in the most ridiculing way is a staple of our culture. It's why kids want to be Haman in Purim plays
Making fun of your enemies as part of your culture? Sounds like a great way to live!
Yeah, the hamentashen cookies we eat on Purim are supposed to symbolize Haman’s ears because he reportedly had wacky ears and we make fun of him for it
Also, brian rosenthal is plain an international treasure... Every predormance of his is priceless
14:40 "[Joe Walker and Joey Richter] are like two sides of the same coin" I see you, putting your own foreshadowing in there, very clever.
Great video, articulates a lot of the feelings I have about this musical. I've gotta rewatch it soon.
you know, I was gonna mention it myself, but I am so glad that someone noticed
The thing about this show that rotates around my head like a microwave is the opening song. It establishes a tonne of expectations which are later subverted ('its time to save the world again, its time to get the girl again') as well as foreshadowing Owen's return ('spies never die, spies are forever')
My favourite line is 'Will you live to see tomorrow or die another day?' because it initially sounds like 'will you live or die' but 'die another day' also means to live, so the options are both living. Which they do :]
"rotates around my head like a microwave" is a line that I shall be using in the future
Also, in Torture Tango, the scene is a direct callback to the opening scene where an Owen in disguise tortures a tied-up Curt Mega while a Mary Kate Wiles character sings in the background
@foxglove-woods
"Will you live to see tomorrow or die another day?" is a Multi-Layered James Bond reference. They took the titles of 3 James Bond Movies and made a coherent sentence out of them: "Live and Let Die," Tomorrow Never Dies," and "Die Another Day."
there's a video that's just a compilation of every time they say "spy" in this musical and it is way longer than most "just one word" compilations
jahshhaa pass the link
that would be thanks to the incredible lyrics of "a spy is a spy is a spy is a spy"
They say ‘spy’ total of 115 times, with Curt making up almost half (I made a spreadsheet because I am ridiculous)
At least 30 of those are found in Spy Again alone. I tried counting once but lost track after 30.
I'm a simple man. I see Spies Are Forever, I click.
A simple man indeed, no need for a thumbnail, just the title
literally the best best best.
also I just realized the main theme of the song is literally telling Curt the plot twist. "Spies never die"
Spies are foreveeerrrrrr! Mary Kate Wiles did such a great job with that opening song!
The opening number and tital of the musical spoil pretty much the whole plot, but since its so klischee, one can miss it as that probably will not be literal 😂
@@SingingSealRiana if you focus, most starkid musicals do this [even though tin can bros is technically its own thing]. Which is so fascinating
A new Spies Are Forever video essay in 2024? I guess spies really are forever... (genuinely got so excited when I saw this in my recommended, thank you so much 🙏🙏)
stick around, we've been really enjoying looking back at the starkid and tin can bros musicals
How did you know I had just decided to watch Spies are Forever for the first time???!!
You need to know these sorts of things in life
because we are in the era of tinlightenment
Me too! Weird
You’ve heard of Chekhov’s gun, but what of Chekhov’s banana peel?
it was right there the whole time!
I also know chekhovs flame thrower also known as roy mustang
You have got to do Solve It Squad next. It also acts as a fantastic parody while being able to stand on its own
ooooooh Solve it Squad is a real interesting one to cover
i heard the piano in the intro and IMMEDIATELY started singing along fvsbhdfjxjbd the power of Spies
Glad to see such cultured individuals around here
I always suspected that Richie was mdma/Owen in disguise, just messing with Curt for funsies 😂
This is one of the greatest head canons ever!
So glad that Joey and Curt invented gay people! A real bro move that!
truly the world has never been the same since
Not So Bad feels like an homage to Springtime from The Producers by Mel Brooks to me
it most absolutely could be, I can definitely see the resemblance
WE NEED MORE PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT SAF
We feel like our channel is the "why aren't people talking about this yet?" place to be
The bingo card made me loose it cuz everything that is spies are forever is exactly on the card
The bingo card was carefully crafted from my vast knowledge of spy movies I'd watch with my father, I'm glad it has all paid off
i haven't even finished watching this yet but i have to commend you for your commitment to the bit and shaving your beard
The real commitment was growing the beard out in the first place
Spies are forever is a masterpiece
it does so much so right so flawlessly
A Spies are Forever Video in 2024? It’s more likely than you think
Didn't even realise when I started scripting the video that TCB were making a tinlightenment campaign at the same time, no better time to take a look back at such a masterpiece
I JUST started relistening to Spies are Forever and I find this- your analysis is so GOOD!!! It’s such an ernest story that it becomes something far greater than “just a parody”!
thank you for such a wholesome comment! the reaction to this video has been really heart warming!
TH-cam doing me a solid with this recommendation. Can never get enough spies are forever appreciation. Nice vid!
Been wanting to talk about this musical for quite some time now, glad you enjoyed!
I remember watching Spies are Forever comically close to when I watched Goldeneye for the first time, so of course a lot of the plot twists I was absolutely prepared for, but damn if this silly goofy emotionally harrowing musical about spies still managed to absolutely captivate and surprise me. One of my favorites, to this day.
It would be interesting to see someone's reaction to spies are forever if they had never seen a spy movie before
@@Undeniably_Idioticas someone who has never seen a spy movie in my memory before, I loved it. Some of the references are popular enough for me to understand just knowing the cliches by osmosis, and the musical points out what the cliches are in a way.
Even if you’re unaware of that though, it stands alone tremendously.
There being a chase scene in the song spies are forever and it not being crossed off bothered me a bit
clearly you are far superior at spy movie cliché bingo than I am
Thank you so much for this analysis! I didn't notice all the times that Mega's careless agent ruthlessness come back to bite him in the butt. And this video comes nowhere near describing the amount of satire in this wonderful musical. For anyone who's watched the classic spy movies, or lived through the period, the number of cliches and Cold War era tropes they skewer is just mind-bogglingly hilarious!
It's very fun to see all the additional clichés and references that the comments point out that we had missed
omg, this is literally what i was thinking while watching the movie, i kept thinking of spies are forever
Great minds think alike
Man, its been a minute since I've watched this musical! Finally some appreciation for it!!
That's what we're here to do, provide the utmost amounts of appreciation
reading through these comments is making my heart swell and long for my spies. I'm rewatching this tomorrow a billion times over and listening to the soundtrack on repeat, I've decided. Fell out of that pattern a while ago like the fool I am, thank you for setting my priorites straight(ha)
It is absolutely wonderful to see all such positive and heart-warming comments on this video
@@Undeniably_IdioticFor real! I knew SAF wasn't all that niche in our corner of the internet but still, it's so fun to see this amount of passion and love for the musical
The Spies Are Forever Reprise (also known as The Cowen Lullaby) sung by Joey Richter near the end makes my cry EVERY. SINGLE. FUCKING. TIME, no matter how many times I've seen this masterpiece
When he just says "whatever" at the end, that type of feeling is indescribable
Its so good and how much he improved is insane between the earlyer pieces and this
Thanks for introducing me to Spies are Forever, that was a great show!
It is an incredible show, glad we could introduce you to it
I thought I could watch a video essay about my favourite musical in the back ground but I have fallen to the floor from pure emotion because I Love This Show So Much twice now and I'm seven minutes in. Great video by the way
So glad you had such a great experience with the show and the video!
This is such a great analysis!!! There will never be enough SAF content so I’m always excited to see more takes on it!!!
Spies are Forever holds a special place in our heart, especially with the song Somebody's Gotta Do It
Great review, a really interesting analysis of the tropes and how the story messes with them. I love this musical, my only thing is I can never tell whether the English accents are meant to be intentionally bad or not. Actually, Joey's is pretty good but there are a couple of words pronounced obviously wrong that really stand out (e.g. Not-see, butty instead of buddy), so I'm never sure. Maybe deliberately bad accents are another spy story cliche!
Well Curt does tell Owen that his accent could use some work, maybe he was referring to all of them, and in Joey's defence he did have several different characters all with wildly different voices so I don't blame him for not getting every word right
@@Undeniably_IdioticOh yes, I'm not trying to suggest there's anything to blame Joey for! He's an amazing actor and can do an incredible range of characters. It's just that it with it being such a surprisingly good, well-rehearsed accent otherwise I've never been sure if the odd mispronunciations are themselves part of the spy story cliches or not. But I'm probably overthinking it.
holy shit this is the best ! I love spy fiction, and Spies are Forever is literally the pinnacle of it.
It ticks all the boxes of a spy movie and then makes even better boxes to tick
The timing of this video is uncanny! I just rewatched Spies are Forever only a little bit before you released this video!
You just gotta stay ahead of the curve if you wanna do this whole TH-cam thing I guess
so this is all getting recommended to us after we first watch spies are forever ??
and it's only after 8 years since it was first released
I love this musical. Never even watched a spy movie before, but the jokes still land
that is the true magic of spies are forever, it's such a well known genre you don't even need to watch any related movies beforehand
Thought this video was immedietly after the release! Imagine my delight when the fandom is alive and well! Love this musical but I can't for the life of me get my friends to watch a satiric parodic musical about spies.
Spies truly are forever!
just bought tickets for me and my friends to see it in la, we’re all so excited
If we lived the other side of the Atlantic we would definitely look in to going to see it ourselves!
ngl i love all the sound of music references in saf because i LOVED the sound of music as a small child. technically my first "real" musical that i fell in love with ahaha
Loved Sound of Music when I was younger, Singin in the Rain was my first musical
NEW SPIES ARE FOREVER VIDEO ESSAY JUST DROPPED HELL YES!!
The first time I watched spies are forever it blew my mind all the way down to the final confrontation. I should watch it again when im done with this video
Could watch and rewatch spies are forever... forever!
OH MY GOD I LOVE THIS SHOW ITS ACTUALLY SO AMAZING I CANT WITH CURT MEGA
Can't believe that's the actor's actual name
@@Undeniably_Idiotic"Curt mega, if that's even your real name"
Someone talking about Spies are Forever!!! Love to see it
Can't believe this came out in 2016!
Paused this video earlier today to go watch the entire musical and I have returned
We have the utmost respect for you! Truly you are a tinlightened individual!
I always found it curious how the character of susan was treated, with zero effort of having her pass, no one commenting on it, was always curious what that said about the actor
Also the line to the informant that said something like "you make a very good woman" was nice to see
awesome vid! always love seeing analysis videos on this musical, its so well crafted
thank you so much! glad you enjoyed!
augh this show is so good... I think it's about time for me to do a rewatch
Could possibly rewatch it endlessly, spies truly are forever
I love this video! You're so good at narrating, and I really enjoyed hearing all your thoughts and explanations
Thank you so much, that really means a lot, glad you enjoyed!
I’ve never been so happy in my LIFE ❤ THANK YOUUUU FOR THIS X
You are very welcome!
I love spies are forever! I'm so happy people are talking about it
Very happy to see all the wholesome comments about the show!
Thanks for reminding me to watch SaF again!!
hopefully this video shall appear once again when you need another reminder in the future!
Watching this again after the Spies Are Forever Live Concert Experience 💜 such a good show
if we didn't live across the pond from the US we definitely would've tried to go see it, it is such a great show can't imagine how it would be to see it LIVE!
@@Undeniably_Idiotic oh I'm from Canada so I get it!! I had the digital ticket so I've been watching it over and over again for days 😅
Sorry im LATE GUYS💜
It's alright, you've got a lot on your plate, it's hard to balance work and life
SPIES ARE FORVER IN THE YEAR OF OUR LORD 2024 HELL YEAHHHHHHH
We are doing the lord's work here indeed!
What a cool reccomendation! Thanks for the vid
This is such an incredible show, it's surprising that it's their first ever scripted project!
great video!!
Really happy that you enjoyed!
amazing intro
it's hard to juggle work and life
looved this hell yeah!
Very happy that you enjoyed!
as someone named curt who is in love with joey richter, this musical was a complete dream come true
have you seen that they did a read through of the script with curt and joey's roles reversed?
@@Undeniably_Idiotic yes!!! ive seen some clips and they absolutely devastated me (in a good way) lol
subbing for the shave 🪒 DEDICATION to the bit is admirable
holy SHIT, just realized I’ve already subbed
you were so committed to subscribing
I have been waiting. Thanks so much for the video 🫶💜✨
Edit: Omg tinlightenment reference 👏👏
Edit 2: omg did you actually shave for the vid!? That’s commitment 🫶🫶
Hope it was worth the wait!
Reply 1: Never missed a Sunday Service
Reply 2: The real commitment was growing the beard out before shaving it