The Truth on Quant Salaries - First Job
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 พ.ย. 2022
- As prospect students look into quantitative finance as a career, many are excited when they hear you can make a half million dollars as a starting salary. While this could be possible it is extremely unlikely. I have been discussing this for years now and I still get comments from subscribers or general viewers who just don't believe me.
Today I am lucky enough to get data from one of the best quantitative finance masters, Carnegie Mellon University (CMU). I will go over the skills, salaries, and potential job titles to look for when applying for your first job. I am working with CMU to help market this report and do get a small commission for those who download the report. Now that being said, I truly believe their reports are a great value as they are FREE and I have not seen any other university provide this sort of data to the public. I have been reviewing these reports over the years as they have given me better insight into what the job marketing is looking for and how much salaries should be.
This report covers Sales and Trading, Data Science, Portfolio Management, Financial Modeling, and Risk Management.
There are two reports which can be downloaded which are:
"2020 Career Guide" (this video)
"2022 Alumni Career Report"
Both can be downloaded here:
bit.ly/3SXCxi5
Website:
www.FancyQuantNation.com
Quant t-shirts, mugs, and hoodies:
www.teespring.com/stores/fanc...
Connect with me:
/ dimitri-bianco
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Thank for the video. Interesting to see a wide range of skill usage in the quant field. Looking for the second video. Would be great to have video on the internships or jobs during the undegrad.
Great video as usual Mr Dimitri !!!
REALLY GREAT VID FOR AN OVERVIEW AND COMPARING SWE, AND FTE
Thanks Dimitri. I'm looking for my first job now so this content is exactly what I need. Plus you provide more insights than me reading it alone :) I'm really looking to the alumni video next week. I myself don't mind a lower compensation in return for an exciting career path. And surely you'll have things to share :)
Very useful. Thank you!
I can say that Dimitri is right on many points. I investigated the quant path for a couple of years before I decided it wasn't for me. The salary range for a quant and big tech, at least at the time of this post are very similar. What made me decide against quant was that it usually comes with a lot more stress than tech.
Is there any information about actual bonuses and/or stock options? The report and most information about salaries do not consider bonuses, a crucial part of the total compensation. It seems all salaries are similar in all industries, but I'm sure bonuses in HF are a lot higher than, say, stocks or bonuses for tech companies or banks. That would be a better comparison
@@ralphmelish2735 quant is like entrepreneurship
@@ralphmelish2735Its going to vary massively, on seniority (as usual the fat cat bosses eat as much as they can), size of team, profitability etc & also that data isn't widely available, so naturally you dont see it reported much. Id say to you though that also consider the lifespan of your career, in hedge funds it can be VERY short even if your good. So what's the point of making on average a few hundred thousand for say 7 years and then sitting around wondering what to do next? After tax and your expenses you'd be left with less than $1m which is considerable but perhaps not enough to set you up to retire!
@@ralphmelish2735 They def include bonuses as well. And for tech compensation is always listen with stocks + base
Great video as always Dimitri
Thanks!
Love you Dimitri!!
Completely off video topic (and you probably don't remember) but my lecturer took me off the overly ambitious (for my current skllset) time series modeling attempt.
My understanding of why I was making certain modeling/proxy decisions was insufficient. So now I've got 2 months or so to learn more econometrics then we'll pick back up next semester with the expectation that I'll probably be working on this stuff, at least in part, for my masters, assuming I stay here.
Edit: real life economic data is so annoying
I do remember you. Time series is one of those topics that seems easy on the surface but without the theory it is very hard to implement. I've struggled teaching time series because I get off on tangents which are meaningful but I struggle to bring it all together.
those mentioned salaries exclude bonuses, from what i have seen, you can easily add another 50k a year on top of that if not more
I know multiple people who came out of CMU’s program and can vouch for the people there being high quality, in case anyone watching this is interested in a second opinion.
Those numbers are much lower than I expected.
I considered going back to school but I have a job that pays 80K now and about 15-20K more with OT and bonus.
Can’t see myself working that hard for basically the same salary.
Good info though and thanks!
it's starting salary though. after a few years you'll likely be on substantially more
Hi Dimitri, congratulations on your channel, the videos are really interesting. I have a question, what do you think about the CQF? Is it comparable to a MSc in financial math/engineering? I am asking because I work in an economic scenario generator, where we calibrate financial models and simulate risk neutral scenarios, used for pricing and market consistent valuations. Because I do not have a pure Quant background, I was considering to expand my knowledge to land a job in a quantitative asset management role in the future and wanted to know your thoughts. Thanks!
I’m doing a masters in data and ai. Looking to become a quant when I graduate.
Thank you for making this video. I've actually wondered this myself, as these salaries I typically hear about seem far-fetched. The ones in this video seem a lot more reasonable.
Typically the highest salaries make the Reddit and Wall Street Oasis forms. No one wants to step forward and admit they aren't making that much.
@@DimitriBianco typically the highest salaries come straight out of undergrad at harvard/mit/stanford, so you wouldn't see the data from a financial math masters program
Damn. I’ve been thinking of going back to school because I thought the area was so fascinating. I was hoping the pay was larger than my current role. The stated pay won’t cover my current opportunity cost or the cost of going back to schools.
Hi Dimitri, are you doing personal mentoring as well? Like a 1on1 session where you review the background/CV and give tipps on what to do to break in? How much do you take for this?
I do occasionally however it depends a lot on my schedule. I tried doing it regularly however there were too many requests and not a good way for me to monetize as I did it based on donations. Some paid nothing and others paid over $100. One main reason I make the videos is to try and reach more people with less effort/time on my end.
I live in a semi small city like NC and it’s averaging 115k to start and up from there. Semi seniored is more around 130k w bonus. (At banks). The problem is growth at these places long term
Hi Dmitri! Not long ago I admitted to the non top-tier university(ba in SWE). Is there any chance later to pass interview on quant reseach?
Если топ по России думаю да. В каком ты?
Hi Dimitri,
I am finishing a MSc degree in computer science from Georgia Tech , specialty in Machine learning , I have interviewed with Morgan Stanley for a quant Dev role , my question to you , how do I move to QR or QT roles later ? Do I need to go for a PhD ,
Thanks
- M.B
You won't need a PhD but you'll need to learn a lot more math and stats to move to a research role.
I work as a Data Analytics Consultant and working on AML Projects with a Financial Client in NYC. My advice for you right now is to learn statistics as much as possible, know Hadoop/Databricks/Snowflake and study Python/SAS and SQL religiously. Note: I have a Masters in Computer Science as well. You don't need to go for a PhD. I am working on FRM preparation so maybe prepare for that?
@Dimitri Thoughts on FRM?
@@whitesoxrules planning on doing another MSc in statistics online while working as a quant Dev
On the entry level quant role salary part, I think it depends a lot on what sub-industry you’re applying for. In prop trading 100k would be a very low starting quant salary. For banks that might be more expected, but I’d say for good graduates in prop trading you can expect more a significant amount of the time.
This isn’t to say that this is “typical”, but that if you’re applying for one of these roles you should know your value and negotiate accordingly.
EDIT: However your point about a lot of them being software engineers is probably a good one, that’s been my experience with the higher salary people I’ve been exposed to typically have very strong software engineering skills. So I guess it’s arguable how much of a “true quant” they are.
Lol I make 100 putting together pretty dashboards w zero coding in my pajamas. It would be very low for a technical role nowadays but for first job companies do take advantage.
presumably the NC State graduate are going to New York and Chicago... also 1st year investment banking analyst salary is...what 120 with sign on, plus eoy bonus, seems like you should make more than that
You can't compare IB to quant...there is almost no cross over. It's like comparing salaries of football players and surgeons.
@@DimitriBianco nah you were an undergrad business student. Even if most bankers cannot become quants most quants surely could become bankers, they hire art history majors after all.
This is unlike surgeons and football players where neither population can readily transfer to the other position.
Yeah thanks for painting the picture for me .
I've been looking up at those figures at HRT and Jane's street and I thought those were really unrealistic
The numbers you saw are definitely correct. I guarantee you any new grad at JS/HRT/Citadel/2Sigma/5Rings/IMC/Optiver/SIG is making 300K minimum no matter if they're a quant or a trader (or even a technologist/SWE person by now honestly), and more likely around 500k on average. No idea what firms these datasets consider but as someone who works at one of the above and has many connections at others I think this video doesn't really apply to prop trading firms
@@mariogamesrock hey btw, out of curiosity, does your firm have an implicit rank hierarchy of trader, quant, dev? And does that apply to total comp as well?
Just curious because in my firm, the three are starting to become equal in comp and prestige, and I recently moved from dev to quant and I’m beginning to wonder whether I made a mistake. Thanks
@@ThomasFoolery8 Seems firm dependent from what I can tell. Mine seems to prioritize traders over the others but I don't think it's like that everywhere (I think generally quant is still valued higher)
@@mariogamesrock quant is still valued higher than “front office dev” at your prop firm?
It’s interesting because the external pressure from elite tech (FAANG) pushed up salaries for top devs, so I was getting big out of cycle raises as a dev.
It was always my goal to transition into quant (as I perceived it as a step up), but now that I’ve finally done it, it feels like a lateral move. Apparently I’m now a bit expensive for a new quant, but quant has less job security than dev imo. (Worse risk-reward ratio)
@@ThomasFoolery8 No, I'm only a recent graduate so I can't give you a very definitive answer. I did notice dev salaries go up a lot over the past year or 2 for new grads, but I can't really speak on salaries for top devs.
Does age matter? I will be graduating from a MFE at age of 29. Do you think that will affect my applications?
Here is a detailed answer to age and quants.
th-cam.com/video/LE4Bs1jcslM/w-d-xo.html
Don’t quants typically make the majority of their tc from bonuses though?
It depends on the firm and if you are in the buy side or sell side. The term quant originally only applied to those on the sell side (banking). The buy side pays more based on performance. Also as a first job you won't get a large amount of responsibility so your bonus won't be large.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:02 *📊 Understanding Quant Compensation for Graduates*
- Exploring Quant careers from the perspective of graduating students.
- Highlighting the collaboration with Carnegie Mellon University for insights into graduate salaries.
- Discussing the availability and value of CMU's reports for career guidance.
02:27 *📈 Trends in Quantitative Finance Careers*
- Analyzing shifts in positions and roles in quantitative finance from 2008 to 2018.
- Noting the prominence of financial modeling, strategies, and research in quant careers.
- Observing the growth of quantitative portfolio management and data science roles.
05:32 *💰 Debunking Salary Myths in Quantitative Finance*
- Addressing misconceptions about starting salaries in quantitative finance.
- Comparing average starting salaries from quantnet rankings to dispel exaggerated claims.
- Providing realistic salary expectations for entry-level quant roles based on data.
Made with HARPA AI
Hey Dimitri thanks for the video. I have some Questions!!!
Q1. Currently I am planning to do msc computer science from india then Phd in usa, will this route be feasible to get into the industry of Quant as a researcher.
Q2. or Should I go for another masters degree in usa?
go for MSC applied mathematics i would be better with programming knowledge
What course can one study to become a quant?
Statistics is a good start.
Seems lower than I thought
You clearly hate computer scientists 🥴😂😂😂
For the sake of comparison and further discussion, here's Baruch's latest career development report: mfe.baruch.cuny.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/5th-Year-Quant-Career-Development-Report-January-2022.pdf
Thanks for sharing this! I'll have to take a look at it.