Camera car entered the vortex of danger, collision ensued as it usually does. Chrisfix should have been using his mirrors a bit more before (because lemons) and that would maybe have avoided the incident, but he had every right to that apex. Luckily it was minor and that was that.
To be fair, I think this is 60/40 on you. Of course they could have left you more room, but there was no way for them to expect this sort of dive. Also, when diving in you go onto the curb and lock up. You were no longer in control of the car. At that point you can't evade anymore and they can't react anymore. So I would personally say while they could have done something to avoid this, it was your overambitious dive that made contact inevitable.
I agree with most of this except the loss of control Brakes locked up due to hard pressing non-ABS brakes too quickly because I wasn't expecting the driver to continue coming over to the right Other than that this was avoidable but man I thought it was ok based on previous laps
Good to hear. We gave each other thumbs up while on track to make sure we were ok. Still didn't expect him to come across like that. I had no lane at all when that happened Also. If you watch I was on the inside lane before he turned in. I am in a Miata I really think what happened was he just didn't expect me to be there. It happens. I also just want to be behind him through 2 and the chicane. He really just came over hard from the middle of the track and I had to brake hard to try and avoid. At the end of the day I feel like it was both our faults. I shouldn't have gone in as deep as I did and Chris should have given me a tiny bit more room. I could have worked this out with just 2 more feet to the left
@@teknoprep unless you are ALL the way up beside his car, the line was his to go for the apex. just because you were approaching the apex quicker doesnt give you the right to it. He was fully ahead of you and went for the apex. As Randy Pobst says "dpnt hit what you can see"
Sucks to see this happen. There was plenty that could have been done to avoid this, and hopefully for next time it doesn't happen. I hope this has taught a lesson that you can use to your advantage next race. I only question why try that move with such a bad angle of attack into Turn 1? You are costing yourself so much speed in a momentum car, and honestly I think if you slotted in during the braking zone you would have been able to potentially taken the BMW on the outside due being able to hold more speed through the corner, or even attempt an Over/Under on the BMW and compromise his entry to Turn 2 which also could have been a good outcome here. Anyways, its Lemons and we get to do stoopids :-)
I had someone to my left and couldn't get behind him. I also didn't want to fly up and punch @chrisfix in the rear I really wanted to follow him through the chicane as his car is faster.
I think you had the better racing tactic, but in this class of racing you can't just dive in there because the other guy probably has no idea you're there.
good tactic, bad execution. he already was turning in, and its an endurance race. no need to have rushed that move, and he would of just overtaken u again. no need to fight with a faster car like that. just let him by
This has been discussed quite extensively. Here are some excerpts from other comments I was not trying to pass him I was trying to get right up behind him post corner to follow him through traffic as his straight of line speed was much faster, not corners I was at his bumper before he turned in He was going way too slow in the turn I assumed he knew I was there as this was happening all day both days where we would go back and forth I will not be doing this again at lemons. It's too green of racers to trust that they still know I am there and they don't really have a race pace. No chance in hell this car would be going this slow in a turn at any race other than lemons. Lesson learned on my part
What kind of car is this? It’s interesting to watch because you are dusting the crappy cars like malibus and neons, but then some fast cars pass you. Gives good perspective on running a race with mixed classes.
I feel like he was in the same line as everyone else. Your brakes just got too hot from passing everybody for 26 minutes. When you needed them the most, you were too late to use them. Glad nobody got hurt. His car seemed to be faster than yours and also the Honda @6:00.
My brakes worked fine. I don't use them except for turn 5, 7, 9, 1 Everywhere else is just a lift. If you listen my brakes locked up and the car darted straight. I was inside of him. It's ok. I should have given him 2 more feet and he should have given me 2 feet. I was only trying to stay close to his rear as I knew his car was faster. I also have 30k laps at this track as it's my home track. Racing incidents happen With that said if he was where I was I would have given him the space he needed all day. Just my 2 cents and a few nickels. I am driving a 400,000+ mile 1990 Miata with 68hp at the wheels. Of course his car is way faster. In the turns the Miata was destroying him.
@@captainseagull3792 love the reply If you ever want to head to a track with any car come to njmp HPDE day with Moe. Search it up on motorsportreg.com Hopefully we will see you there some time
@@teknoprep He didnt owe you 2 feet. The line was his. Pause at 26:42 and you werent even beside him. Look at the line you are aiming for, its not even NEAR the racing line. So lets re-cap : You werent beside him at 26:42 which was after the turn in point. You can clearly see that he is lined up for the apex and you think this shunt was in any way his fault ? Race anywhere but Lemons and youll find out whos fault it was in the eye of the sanctioning body and will always be you.
You can't trust lemons drivers to respect a divebomb. Most of them are too green and already overwhelmed by the sensation of track driving to be aware of that.
Lemons is all-fault racing, so it doesn't matter who took what line, contact incidents and track offs are your fault. Feel like you got cut off? too bad. The other driver had to report to the penalty box too. If he said "someone dive bombed me in the corner and hit me" do you know what the lemons judges told him? "too bad"! That said, a much faster car came up on slow traffic in the braking zone (beetle, aspen and red car ahead). If you look at 26:39 BMW has definitely cleared onboard driver by 4-5 car lengths safely and is focused on entering turn ahead on the racing line. Unfortunately three slower cars are in front, so he slows down hard to follow those slower cars through the racing line at the turn. 26:42 shows the weight of all four leading cars ahead of the driver have shifted to enter the turn already. The rest is history. The vortex of danger stuff is real. Now as the passing driver, it is your responsibility to anticipate the car in front of you to make a safe pass no matter what your line. Another point to make here is you did the courtesy "get out of the way" down the front straightaway instead of letting the faster car make a pass off the racing line. When you do something like this, the overtaking driver expects that you're not immediately going to try and pass again in the upcoming corner. As you noted in your replies that you "couldn't get back over to follow the car through the corner" because another car to your left, this is another good reason to just stay on the racing line and let cars pass you, or back off in heavy traffic into a corner instead of punching it and sticking your nose in, expecting others to get out of your way. Drivers also differ in the same car, and long running enduro sessions mean you may wind up with a car you recognize that behaves totally different a few laps later. It's not on your mind to keep track of everyone else's pit stops or driver changes, so nobody should assume that the same car is going to take the same line, even lap to lap (maybe the driver is distracted with radio calls or checking gauges). This is a good lesson for everyone from any walk of track driving to learn from. All this happened in under 10 seconds so there's no point in finger pointing to anyone. Thanks for posting the video and keeping the comments open.
And yes, I see the comments/responses that you were not trying to pass him. Just throwing out armchair play by plays here on something that popped up in my suggested videos feed....
It's not always all fault I was plowed into during a red flag situation last year I called it in during the red flag over the radio and they said no problem just stay out since it's not your fault But yes most of the time all fault
Hey Chris, I have some questions about using some of this footage in an upcoming project if you are open to that, do you have a business/preferred email you can reply with so we can communicate better?
Camera car entered the vortex of danger, collision ensued as it usually does. Chrisfix should have been using his mirrors a bit more before (because lemons) and that would maybe have avoided the incident, but he had every right to that apex. Luckily it was minor and that was that.
To be fair, I think this is 60/40 on you. Of course they could have left you more room, but there was no way for them to expect this sort of dive. Also, when diving in you go onto the curb and lock up. You were no longer in control of the car. At that point you can't evade anymore and they can't react anymore. So I would personally say while they could have done something to avoid this, it was your overambitious dive that made contact inevitable.
I agree with most of this except the loss of control
Brakes locked up due to hard pressing non-ABS brakes too quickly because I wasn't expecting the driver to continue coming over to the right
Other than that this was avoidable but man I thought it was ok based on previous laps
umm, ChrisFix is alright, ChrisRawlings messed up though... to take the lane, the lane need to exist in first place.
Good to hear. We gave each other thumbs up while on track to make sure we were ok. Still didn't expect him to come across like that. I had no lane at all when that happened
Also. If you watch I was on the inside lane before he turned in. I am in a Miata I really think what happened was he just didn't expect me to be there. It happens. I also just want to be behind him through 2 and the chicane. He really just came over hard from the middle of the track and I had to brake hard to try and avoid. At the end of the day I feel like it was both our faults. I shouldn't have gone in as deep as I did and Chris should have given me a tiny bit more room. I could have worked this out with just 2 more feet to the left
@@teknoprep unless you are ALL the way up beside his car, the line was his to go for the apex. just because you were approaching the apex quicker doesnt give you the right to it. He was fully ahead of you and went for the apex. As Randy Pobst says "dpnt hit what you can see"
Sucks to see this happen.
There was plenty that could have been done to avoid this, and hopefully for next time it doesn't happen.
I hope this has taught a lesson that you can use to your advantage next race. I only question why try that move with such a bad angle of attack into Turn 1? You are costing yourself so much speed in a momentum car, and honestly I think if you slotted in during the braking zone you would have been able to potentially taken the BMW on the outside due being able to hold more speed through the corner, or even attempt an Over/Under on the BMW and compromise his entry to Turn 2 which also could have been a good outcome here.
Anyways, its Lemons and we get to do stoopids :-)
I had someone to my left and couldn't get behind him. I also didn't want to fly up and punch @chrisfix in the rear I really wanted to follow him through the chicane as his car is faster.
I think you had the better racing tactic, but in this class of racing you can't just dive in there because the other guy probably has no idea you're there.
I agree. I also did not want to pass him. Just wanted to tuck in behind him and follow as his car was way faster
good tactic, bad execution. he already was turning in, and its an endurance race. no need to have rushed that move, and he would of just overtaken u again. no need to fight with a faster car like that. just let him by
This has been discussed quite extensively. Here are some excerpts from other comments
I was not trying to pass him
I was trying to get right up behind him post corner to follow him through traffic as his straight of line speed was much faster, not corners
I was at his bumper before he turned in
He was going way too slow in the turn
I assumed he knew I was there as this was happening all day both days where we would go back and forth
I will not be doing this again at lemons. It's too green of racers to trust that they still know I am there and they don't really have a race pace. No chance in hell this car would be going this slow in a turn at any race other than lemons. Lesson learned on my part
22:22 those slow speed corner take your lunch every time
What kind of car is this? It’s interesting to watch because you are dusting the crappy cars like malibus and neons, but then some fast cars pass you. Gives good perspective on running a race with mixed classes.
P.S. There are no "lanes" on a race track only lines and you are Waaaaaaaay off the racing line when you wreck Chrisfix out.
Based on what you are saying you don't know anything about racing at all
I feel like he was in the same line as everyone else. Your brakes just got too hot from passing everybody for 26 minutes. When you needed them the most, you were too late to use them. Glad nobody got hurt.
His car seemed to be faster than yours and also the Honda @6:00.
My brakes worked fine. I don't use them except for turn 5, 7, 9, 1
Everywhere else is just a lift. If you listen my brakes locked up and the car darted straight. I was inside of him. It's ok. I should have given him 2 more feet and he should have given me 2 feet. I was only trying to stay close to his rear as I knew his car was faster.
I also have 30k laps at this track as it's my home track. Racing incidents happen
With that said if he was where I was I would have given him the space he needed all day. Just my 2 cents and a few nickels.
I am driving a 400,000+ mile 1990 Miata with 68hp at the wheels. Of course his car is way faster. In the turns the Miata was destroying him.
@@teknoprep fair enough, I'm just a keyboard quarterback wishing this happened to me by accident lol
@@captainseagull3792 love the reply
If you ever want to head to a track with any car come to njmp HPDE day with Moe. Search it up on motorsportreg.com
Hopefully we will see you there some time
@@teknoprep He didnt owe you 2 feet. The line was his. Pause at 26:42 and you werent even beside him. Look at the line you are aiming for, its not even NEAR the racing line. So lets re-cap : You werent beside him at 26:42 which was after the turn in point. You can clearly see that he is lined up for the apex and you think this shunt was in any way his fault ? Race anywhere but Lemons and youll find out whos fault it was in the eye of the sanctioning body and will always be you.
You can't trust lemons drivers to respect a divebomb. Most of them are too green and already overwhelmed by the sensation of track driving to be aware of that.
This happened because well LEMONS lol
Lemons is all-fault racing, so it doesn't matter who took what line, contact incidents and track offs are your fault. Feel like you got cut off? too bad. The other driver had to report to the penalty box too. If he said "someone dive bombed me in the corner and hit me" do you know what the lemons judges told him? "too bad"!
That said, a much faster car came up on slow traffic in the braking zone (beetle, aspen and red car ahead). If you look at 26:39 BMW has definitely cleared onboard driver by 4-5 car lengths safely and is focused on entering turn ahead on the racing line. Unfortunately three slower cars are in front, so he slows down hard to follow those slower cars through the racing line at the turn.
26:42 shows the weight of all four leading cars ahead of the driver have shifted to enter the turn already. The rest is history. The vortex of danger stuff is real. Now as the passing driver, it is your responsibility to anticipate the car in front of you to make a safe pass no matter what your line.
Another point to make here is you did the courtesy "get out of the way" down the front straightaway instead of letting the faster car make a pass off the racing line. When you do something like this, the overtaking driver expects that you're not immediately going to try and pass again in the upcoming corner. As you noted in your replies that you "couldn't get back over to follow the car through the corner" because another car to your left, this is another good reason to just stay on the racing line and let cars pass you, or back off in heavy traffic into a corner instead of punching it and sticking your nose in, expecting others to get out of your way.
Drivers also differ in the same car, and long running enduro sessions mean you may wind up with a car you recognize that behaves totally different a few laps later. It's not on your mind to keep track of everyone else's pit stops or driver changes, so nobody should assume that the same car is going to take the same line, even lap to lap (maybe the driver is distracted with radio calls or checking gauges).
This is a good lesson for everyone from any walk of track driving to learn from. All this happened in under 10 seconds so there's no point in finger pointing to anyone. Thanks for posting the video and keeping the comments open.
And yes, I see the comments/responses that you were not trying to pass him. Just throwing out armchair play by plays here on something that popped up in my suggested videos feed....
It's not always all fault
I was plowed into during a red flag situation last year
I called it in during the red flag over the radio and they said no problem just stay out since it's not your fault
But yes most of the time all fault
Hey Chris, I have some questions about using some of this footage in an upcoming project if you are open to that, do you have a business/preferred email you can reply with so we can communicate better?