So what do you recommend? I have a Thrustmaster TMX and I want the most realistic feeling I can get from Forza. From what I've played on my wheel with simulation, correcting a slide just leads me into even more slides.. but I don't know what to pick right now because I don't like assists but on Sim it just doesn't feel right.
Do you have Forza Motorsport 7? Because that is the first one that gets the Self-aligning moment actually from lateral force instead of some weird mix with mostly slip-angle values. (It's still wrong and not actually sim, because it still leaves out vertical forces (aka tire load), but FM7 is the first one that allows me to properly countersteer on sim-steering according to what the FFB tells me - in other words "it's far from great, but much better than in all Forza games before". In general Forza is not really FIT to give you "realistic" force feedback that could make you a better driver in extreme situations in real life. In real life, countersteering a race car is ABSOLUTELY natural, because the forces on the wheel are high and instantaneous aaand the steering wheel rim very light, leading to the car basically applying its own opposite lock steering FOR you, you just have to let it do that and not cringe up and try to force yourself on it. Here is a video from a developer of the racing sim Max Verstappen posted a picture using of before F1 was at Paul Ricard (Automobilista and GSCE), where he explains and shows it: th-cam.com/video/lNVLr7hhs9A/w-d-xo.htmlm16s (watch up until 3:13). That Bodner wheelbase used in the video costs over 3000 bucks though. Anyway, what I want to say: It's not YOUR fault, it's Turn 10's! Don't get riled up, that you're doing it wrong or setting it up wrong, if you can't catch a slide on sim steering in Forza. But FM7 was the first indicator that they might be getting there some day with Forza too. [and for the record: Gran Turismo is the same bullshit in regards to FFB. On Console only Assetto Corsa, Project CARS 2, DiRT Rally (and 4) as well as F1 from 2016 on do that right at least in theory. Though in some it feels better than in others. Tires and suspensions are complicated.
@@renereiche Ah well that's just sad. And yeah those direct drive wheels are so nice. Forza needs to ditch the "controller only" party and they need to give us wheel users some more love too. I guess I'll just use normal from now on, at least I'll be able to countersteer somewhat normally. And also, no I don't have FM7. I've had FM5 FM6 FH2 and FH3
Coming from someone who has never (and I mean _never_) used "Normal Steering" in Forza, are you able to force the car to go beyond that maximum yaw angle, say in the event of a very tight hairpin, and you want to do a handbrake turn to assist the car's rotation?
Short answer: From my experience, "normal steering" has even more understeer - or better: has a more conservative speed-sensitive steering sensitivity, that needs you to slow down more in order to turn in enough to make a turn, "simulation steering" is sharper and lets you flick the car in easier, but if you overdo it, it's much harder to catch a slide than on "normal steering". Normal steering => easy drifting. Long version: In early 2014 I fell in love with Forza 5 so much, that this controller speed-sensitivity "just let me turn-IN MORE! I *KNOW* I can take this turn at this speed, goddamnit!" left me so frustrated that I decided to get a Thrustmaster TX (that is exactly the issue, you have, right? That the game won't let you turn in enough, so much that you even think about using the handbrake) and only then, with the wheel, I really understood which understeer came from the car and which understeer came from the speed-sensitive controller steering aid. But Forza's FFB was so unrealistic that I didn't really get better at driving, only at playing Forza. That changed when I started playing RaceRoom and Assetto Corsa. FM7's FFB is the first that is a little improved in the sense that you can now countersteer much more natural like in a real car, but it's still by far the worst racing sim FFB, closely followed by GTS. So, if you ever get a wheel, don't get it for Forza or GT, it's not worth it in my opinion.
If I get a wheel, it's for DiRT: Rally, which is the only other racing game I own, at least as far as ones that attempt to be "realistic". Sure, I own games such as Absolute Drift and The Crew, but they aren't exactly renowned for realism.
DiRT Rally has some very functional FFB, that doesn't do super much for immersion, but really helps to understand what's going on and let the car settle itself after it's been upset. It was horrible when DiRT Rally was in early access, but a guy I know helped to sort it out ( th-cam.com/video/yWJGKjNu__U/w-d-xo.htmlm57s ). He was invited to Codemasters, explained what's wrong and three weeks later the FFB was as it is now. Btw. I'm looking forward to Absolute Rally, the successor to Absolute Drift.
This video is not about physics accuracy, it's about a driving aid. GT featured "skid recovery" and GTS now has a countersteering assist option as driving aids as well. In the grand scheme, both GT6 and FM7 are similarly inaccurate. GTS has a much worse friction coefficient than older GT games [braking distance in a 911 GT3 RS on non-slick tiresfrom 200-0: GT6=105m, realistic(according to Auto Bild)=117m, GTS=143m and some others: FM7=101m, AC=117m, pCARS2=123m], but just about anything else is still very "accessible" - and omitting accuracy is process - just as older GT games and Forza as well. I do still like Gran Turismo and Forza for what they are. Even have a Platinum Trophy in GT6.
Normal is great for drifting. Most simulation racers struggle to pick up drifting because of the insane snap oversteer
Simulation steering is impossible to use on a wheel. Can’t catch the car
lmao
So what do you recommend? I have a Thrustmaster TMX and I want the most realistic feeling I can get from Forza. From what I've played on my wheel with simulation, correcting a slide just leads me into even more slides.. but I don't know what to pick right now because I don't like assists but on Sim it just doesn't feel right.
Do you have Forza Motorsport 7? Because that is the first one that gets the Self-aligning moment actually from lateral force instead of some weird mix with mostly slip-angle values. (It's still wrong and not actually sim, because it still leaves out vertical forces (aka tire load), but FM7 is the first one that allows me to properly countersteer on sim-steering according to what the FFB tells me - in other words "it's far from great, but much better than in all Forza games before". In general Forza is not really FIT to give you "realistic" force feedback that could make you a better driver in extreme situations in real life.
In real life, countersteering a race car is ABSOLUTELY natural, because the forces on the wheel are high and instantaneous aaand the steering wheel rim very light, leading to the car basically applying its own opposite lock steering FOR you, you just have to let it do that and not cringe up and try to force yourself on it.
Here is a video from a developer of the racing sim Max Verstappen posted a picture using of before F1 was at Paul Ricard (Automobilista and GSCE), where he explains and shows it:
th-cam.com/video/lNVLr7hhs9A/w-d-xo.htmlm16s (watch up until 3:13). That Bodner wheelbase used in the video costs over 3000 bucks though.
Anyway, what I want to say: It's not YOUR fault, it's Turn 10's! Don't get riled up, that you're doing it wrong or setting it up wrong, if you can't catch a slide on sim steering in Forza. But FM7 was the first indicator that they might be getting there some day with Forza too. [and for the record: Gran Turismo is the same bullshit in regards to FFB. On Console only Assetto Corsa, Project CARS 2, DiRT Rally (and 4) as well as F1 from 2016 on do that right at least in theory. Though in some it feels better than in others. Tires and suspensions are complicated.
@@renereiche Ah well that's just sad. And yeah those direct drive wheels are so nice. Forza needs to ditch the "controller only" party and they need to give us wheel users some more love too. I guess I'll just use normal from now on, at least I'll be able to countersteer somewhat normally. And also, no I don't have FM7. I've had FM5 FM6 FH2 and FH3
Always used simulation as default. Now i go normal... Cause its a real cheat.
Coming from someone who has never (and I mean _never_) used "Normal Steering" in Forza, are you able to force the car to go beyond that maximum yaw angle, say in the event of a very tight hairpin, and you want to do a handbrake turn to assist the car's rotation?
Are you using a wheel?
I wish, but I suffer from a chronic condition called being poor, and cannot afford one.
Short answer: From my experience, "normal steering" has even more understeer - or better: has a more conservative speed-sensitive steering sensitivity, that needs you to slow down more in order to turn in enough to make a turn, "simulation steering" is sharper and lets you flick the car in easier, but if you overdo it, it's much harder to catch a slide than on "normal steering". Normal steering => easy drifting.
Long version: In early 2014 I fell in love with Forza 5 so much, that this controller speed-sensitivity "just let me turn-IN MORE! I *KNOW* I can take this turn at this speed, goddamnit!" left me so frustrated that I decided to get a Thrustmaster TX (that is exactly the issue, you have, right? That the game won't let you turn in enough, so much that you even think about using the handbrake) and only then, with the wheel, I really understood which understeer came from the car and which understeer came from the speed-sensitive controller steering aid. But Forza's FFB was so unrealistic that I didn't really get better at driving, only at playing Forza. That changed when I started playing RaceRoom and Assetto Corsa. FM7's FFB is the first that is a little improved in the sense that you can now countersteer much more natural like in a real car, but it's still by far the worst racing sim FFB, closely followed by GTS.
So, if you ever get a wheel, don't get it for Forza or GT, it's not worth it in my opinion.
If I get a wheel, it's for DiRT: Rally, which is the only other racing game I own, at least as far as ones that attempt to be "realistic". Sure, I own games such as Absolute Drift and The Crew, but they aren't exactly renowned for realism.
DiRT Rally has some very functional FFB, that doesn't do super much for immersion, but really helps to understand what's going on and let the car settle itself after it's been upset. It was horrible when DiRT Rally was in early access, but a guy I know helped to sort it out ( th-cam.com/video/yWJGKjNu__U/w-d-xo.htmlm57s ). He was invited to Codemasters, explained what's wrong and three weeks later the FFB was as it is now.
Btw. I'm looking forward to Absolute Rally, the successor to Absolute Drift.
Simulation is for steering wheel! And normal for controller
Meanwhile I've never played with a steering wheel, and I've always used simulation.
Hi do you like gt5/gt6 for physics accuracy?
This video is not about physics accuracy, it's about a driving aid. GT featured "skid recovery" and GTS now has a countersteering assist option as driving aids as well. In the grand scheme, both GT6 and FM7 are similarly inaccurate. GTS has a much worse friction coefficient than older GT games [braking distance in a 911 GT3 RS on non-slick tiresfrom 200-0: GT6=105m, realistic(according to Auto Bild)=117m, GTS=143m and some others: FM7=101m, AC=117m, pCARS2=123m], but just about anything else is still very "accessible" - and omitting accuracy is process - just as older GT games and Forza as well. I do still like Gran Turismo and Forza for what they are. Even have a Platinum Trophy in GT6.