The Real Deal about I Love Lucy's Fred and Ethel Feud!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- Here's the real deal about the purported feud between Vivian Vance and William Frawley, co-stars on the classic TV sitcom, "I Love Lucy".
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The most iconic scene I remember with Lucy and Vivian was when they got the job working in the candy factory. Both of them were fantastically good at playing off each other, that's what made those shows so entertaining.
My favorite is Vitameatavegemin.
Both episodes are great. But I lean toward Vitameatavegimin.
I like coming across old movies Frawley was in. He was an excellent actor.
He was fun to watch, no matter what he was in.
The episode that stands out is the one when they were on the boat to Europe and Fred and Ethel have a second honeymoon. They really made me believe they were an old married couple. Those characters couldn’t have been cast any better.
I agree about the casting, Edward. It was perfect!
Miscast in my opinion! Fred was way too old for the part.
@@dawnstrohm5382 you're obviously younger than 50
Dawn Strohm Frawley was only 22 years older than Vance which was hardly a stretch.
Edward Hannah Only???
I was three years old when I started watching I Love ❤ Lucy with my mother in '59. My memories of being that young and watching the show, which by then was already in reruns, is like seeing some old snapshots and brief video clips. I hope I never lose those memories.
No matter how they felt about each other, you'd never know about it when watching the show. They were true professionals. I can see why Lucy was intimidated by Vivian's looks; she was a knockout in that picture! Glad to see that they eventually became good friends!
You can’t always be best friends with your coworkers. Great video.
Mikes your are exactly right. As TV sitcom viewers we assume that they are all friends that probably go out for a drink together after work. But we only know them as the characters they play. We don't really know THEM. Acting for them is work and hard work I assume. When the day is over they go home and lead their own lives, lives we know nothing about.
..ain't that the truth. Here is talking about you James at work.
@@JOYOUSONEX You're right. We sometimes forget actors are doing a job, whether they personally like each other or not.
I don't believe Desi and Bill were best friends but the two were friends. That is why Desi wanted Bill for the part. I believe he also knew Vivian but not personally and thought she would be a perfect blend. The 4, whatever issues came up were professionals and didn't let their differences interfere with their work. Quite frankly, Desi was right, and the two were a perfect blend professionally!
There was also a huge age difference between the actors playing George and Weezy on the Jeffersons. She was 58 and he was in his late 30s when the show started. But he did seem older than that, and they had great chemistry together.
Same as Florida and James on Good Times. She was 19 years older than him
Bill was 22 years older than Vivian (1887 vs 1909). It was no wonder that she said he "should have been cast as my dad." Dispute the age difference, they worked well together.
Many women (or men) are much older than their partners it is no big deal. However, William Frawley looked the age and even older than he was! Maybe because of the drinking problem he had plus being bald! Shoirt, fat and bald...but that didn't take from his acting ability!
Correct! Desi didn’t really wanted him since, he had drinking problem. But, he got a chance. And, didn’t get along with Vivian. Later the show ended... He Took My Three Sons Show until passing 1966.
It wasnt age it was the way Bill Fraeley looked: short, fat, & bald.
@Hairway to Steven Well that is the other persons problem. Bill Frawley was not attractive short fat and bald!
Plus he looked older than he was
As I have said elsewhere many older men do not look their age.
It is about keeping fit and eating right like with everything.
Despite their grievances the 2 were a good blend for the show.
@@eloiseockert6561 _
My favorite line from the show was when Ricky was cooking dinner one day and Fred comes over and he asks Fred what does he know about rice? Fred responds “I know I had it thrown at me on one of the worst days of my life!” 🤣🤣🤣
lol!!!!!
Victoria York Actually to be precise it was on one of the darkest days of my life.. Sorry thanks to my mom I’ve seen every I love Lucy episode
Gary Bond you’re right! I’ve got the entire set of all the shows....was just winging it here. LOL
@@garybond5820 I _must_ have too. Thanks to my mother that would be. I can't remember every element of every show but in all likelihood I saw them all. Lucy was there for me when I'd be home sick from school and my dear mother would be doting on me and nursing me back to health. There were other syndicated shows to watch during those times I'd be home sick but I Love ❤ Lucy stands above them _all_ .
That was a classic episode!! 🤣🤣🤣
Bea Benaderette from Petticoat Junction was Lucy’s first choice to play Ethel. Vivian Vance was gr8!
Leigh Leigh David Barbara Pepper was really Lucy’s first choice but she was a drunk
That's because Bea Benaderette was co-starring with Lucy on radio's My Favorite Husband. Also on that show was Gale Gordon, who was Lucy's first choice for Fred Mertz. He later played Mr Mooney on The Lucy Show.
I knew Lucille Ball....So much has been said publicly that isn't right. You right, Frawley Lucy said was about the same off screen. Lucy never even heard of Vance when she was first cast, but after a few years they became close friends for many reasons - including the fact that Lucy could always count on Vance to play off of. And eventually they went through divorces together. Bring up Vance's name in her later years - after she was gone - and Lucy would tear up. Frawley did appear on one episode of the series "The Lucy Show," it was his last TV appearance. And casting and Lucy and everyone knew it was a week that Vance wouldn't be there. Not a coincidence. No Vivian was cast as a frumpy older neighbor and she was in fact about Lucy's age and not frumpy really. She kinda resented that. And yes, did suggest Frawley would be best playing her father. As for Frawley, it was a job and good one. Indeed there was comedy gold between them, mostly because of the writers.....
How cool is that, Steve?!!? Thanks for taking time to share some of your insights here.
Frawley was an old vaudeville guy. Vance said he was a (words to the effect) cheap dirty joke teller. Vaudeville style. Pretty cheap. I am sure she felt abused by that. However that was also his career style.
Just remembered William Frawley was 'Bub" on My Three Sons.
They filmed at the same lot as The Lucy Show and he liked throwing empty film canisters at the soundstage door where TLS was filming, to startle Viv. I'm sure Miss Ball was not happy with him about that.
Not only was he Bub on My Three Sons but William Frawley also appeared in movies. He appeared with Abbott and Costello meet the Invisible Man. I think Bill played the part of the a police detective.
I remember he had a cameo appearance in It's a Wonderful Life. The disgruntled homeowner whose grandfather planted the tree that George Bailey crashed into after he left the diner.
@@paulleckner8235 I don't think that was Frawley.
@@joegongora2200 He was on Miracle on 34th street too. I don't remember his name, but he was the man who gave political advice to the judge.
Vivian accepted the offer to do The Lucy Show under two conditions - she would be called Vivian and would not have to wear frumpy clothes like Ethel did.
Yep. That's what I've read as well, swampzoid!
Love that biography of Vivian Vance.
Why was the Vivian name change so important?
@@mariahwhitneycelinejanetmadona She didn't want to be known aa the frumpy Ethel Mertz.
I remember reading once somewhere that William Frawley had co-starred in a B-movie back in the 1940's with Desi Arnez and the two hit it off immediately! Frawley's acting career was waining due to his notorious drinking habit. When Arnez and Lucille Ball got CBS to turn a radio program into the future I LOVE LUCY, he insisted on William playing the part of Fred Mertz. The TV show was, in fact, a way of saving Lucy and Desi's marriage. It's telling how many careers were saved with the help of this all-time great comedy show. We the viewers were all the better for it! Fun fact: I Love Lucy gave TV audiences it's first rerun of a show.🇵🇷🇺🇸😊
Never heard that but I remember Lucy wanted Gale Gordon as Fred but he had a contract somewhere else at the time. Glad Lucy gave Bill his final role on her later Lucy Show 🤓😎✌🏻
Some actors and actresses of today can actually learn about professionalism from these two. I could name a few people in today's shows that have overinflated egos that they sometimes act like spoiled brats, creating tantrums on and off the set (against their co-stars, or against the crew).
You're right, Blacksands. They were both true professionals when they were on-set and in front of the cameras.
Blacksands Couldn’t have said it better nor could I concur with you more!
When professionalism counted and not the new entertainment for the masses who will NEVER have the class, self control, much less professionalism.
It makes the world a little more ugly.
#professioanlismofyore
#ilovevivanvance
#ilovewilliamfrawley
If there had been social media and 24/7 news media back then, people who are saying the same things as you would probably have gotten a huge shock.
@@benadams3569 They had the tabloids for that - and I'm pretty sure there were scuttlebutt in, out, and around Hollywood since it's an "open secret" that they hated each other. Fortunately - or not so fortunately - tabloid newspapers come and go. Despite that, though, they still punched in their time cards and sold the show. A perfect example of how some prissy on-set drama can ruin a show was the Lethal Weapon TV series a couple of years back. Both leads were pricks, and let their egos do the talking.
Name them
My mother, my grandfather, and an uncle all died from cancer, and my father had prostate cancer (he beat it to die of kidney failure a few years later). So, yeah, it would be nice if they'd find a way to cure cancer.
Totally agree, Rich.
What does all that have to do with I Love Lucy?
@@eloiseockert6561 Vivian Vance died of cancer a few years later! A couple people were simply stating the fact wishing there was a cure for this dread disease, that's all!
My Mom, too. Pancreatic cancer.
@@eloiseockert6561 Desi Arnaz died of CANCER!
if you recall their dialog, was mostly all insults and barbs back and forth. the veneer of contempt was the dynamic they were looking for
I heard that William Frawley overheard Vivian Vance telling someone, “nobody’s going to believe that I’m married to that old man” - Something pretty close to that, at least. William was offended by that.
"Lucy, you've got some 'splaining to do." Please respond with a thumps "up!"
if you grew up watching "I Love Lucy"and heard Desi say this to Lucy over
and over again. Why? Because, according to "this new reality" Desi NEVER
SAID THIS!
@Karen Carpenter Yes, and so did I he said that line very frequently.
THUMPS UP,LOL
That damn Mandela Effect
True. He never said that line, though he had similar lines like: "Lucy, 'splain," and "Splain that if you can".
Carol o'Conner and jean Stapleton were hilarious
Yes. They were!
I really liked watching "I Love Lucy" because the show was truly a hit. Lucille Ball, Desi Arnez, these were people making others laugh and it was great. I never knew about Vivian or William disagreeing.
Most people just care about actors/actresses on screen chemistry and could care less about their off screen.
Fred: “But I’m starving!”
Ethel: “OHH, you can live off your Fat a little longer!”
😂😂😂
Comedy GOLD.
Lines like that probably wouldn't make it on TV anymore!
Civil war relics
My favorite "Fred" line was him saying Ethel had a figure like a big of door knobs. lol.
@@jdsundstrom I hear a lot worse than that on TV these days.
BLFulle proof it’s an agenda we pick and choose what to cry about.
I've always heard that William Frawley overheard Vivian Vance complaining about their age difference when they first got the parts and that's what started the tension between the two.
His response was to call her "a bag full of door-knobs".
Frawley was also a renowned drunk and it was written into his contract that he would be fired if he showed up soused. In fact, Lucy and Desi were not even going to hire Frawley because of his drinking. Your cancer comment was hilarious given I Love Lucy was sponsored by Philip Morris and every show was an ongoing cigarette ad.
Different times for sure, David!
Interesting Mr. Webber I can't recall anytime I ever met except for one time a non-drinker in my elementary years or throughout Junior High Or High School, what those men and women went through with the stress of World War II working in the factory for the defense department, Took a horrible toll on this working class, Then in 1959 the Soviet Union putting up the first satellite, fear was abound, he had too been good to be with that I Love Lucy shows. 40 years I still remember his character.One of the Originals.
It was Desi not Lucy who told Bill if he showed up dtunk he would be fired. Bill did show up drunk once and Desi spoke with him
Gave him a break...the 2 were friends... but Desi also was an alcoholic so that was most likely why he gave Bill a second chance. He honored it then after that.
@@eloiseockert6561 His hands would shake a lot, probably because of alcohol withdrawal. I noticed this a lot.
Tobacco companies sponsored many television shows, as well as NASCAR(Winston Cup). Everybody smoked back then. There were even cigarette advertising stating smoking improved digestion.
Damn, she was 39, she looked very old on the show.
The Ethel character was meant to be dowdy in comparison to Lucy.
I never thought she looked at old on the show. Always thought her and Lucy were around the same age. I think that her and Fred made a nice fit as husband and wife on the show.
To be fair, the reason she looked older on the show was the doing of Lucille Ball. It was written into Vance's contract that, in order to be part of the show, she had to maintain a weight around 10-15 pounds higher than her usual weight, leaving her on the chubbier side. This was done so Lucille would appear even thinner than she was. The clothing/hairstyle was also the doing of Lucy, who was adamant that, if there be a female co-star on the show, that she not be more attractive. Lucille, while a brilliant comedianne, was far from easy to work with in real life, and also a less than stellar parent (per her own children and friends). She was fairly narcissistic, somewhat ruthless, and is not exactly remembered for being generous. I'm not saying she was an awful person with no redeeming qualities, but she was far away from the lovable, bumbling character on the show. Biographies/books on the show reveal a different person behind the scenes.
Da Stormcomin everyone looked older then. Strange ya know? Maybe because we were all younger!
I didn't think Vivian Vance looked older...but remember how she was played down as she was supposed to look older than Lucy...
In Barry Livingston’s autobiography, he tells stories about Bill taking Stanley and him over to the Lucy Show set to play practical jokes on Vivian because he didn’t like her and wanted to make her mad. Both shows were done in the same building at the same time. They would go over during breaks.
I saw an old interview with the former young stars of "My Three Sons." They all seemed to enjoy working with William Frawley (even more so than William Demarest, the actor who would replace him).
tomchris60 I saw that interview. I Loved William Frawley as “Bub”❤️. I didn’t like William Demarest, “Uncle Charlie “. He was mean and crabby. Bub was so much nicer and funny!! In real life he couldn’t stand Demarest.
I never noticed the disparity. They seemed believable as a married couple. Had good chemistry on camera. Always interesting to see how people can work together successfully when they don't like each other
Good chemistry ⚗? I'm not so sure. Fred was always putting Ethyl down, and vice versa. Yes, they were professionals and they made you believe they were married, but I don't see the chemistry.
it's funny that they didn't get along in real life but on television they're probably one of the greatest married couples ever
Bea Benederet was Lucille Ball's first choice for Ethel Mertz but Bea was playing Gracie Allen's neighbor on Burns and Allen
And Gale Gordon was Lucy's first choice for Fred Mertz.
Never heard of any animosity on the show. Actors , like waiters were professionals in the day. They checked their egos & disputes at the door.
There is truly something to be said for that level of professionalism!
No, they detested each other. From several sources I read, Frawley was cast first. With less than a month to go, Vance was signed after three previous choices were rejected. Upon learning who would be playing her spouse, she commented "That old coot is going to play my husband?" He never forgave her.
@TheDodicat Book "Meet The Mertzes", author Rob Edelman.
Also of interest was the fact that Bill Frawley was notorious as a heavy drinker. Desi warned him that the first time he ever showed up drunk he was gone. Frawley appreciated the chance the show was to him and he never was drunk or even late once in the entire series run.
I've heard that as well. Thanks for sharing Janovus S.!
Bill had it in his contract that if he Yankees won the world series he could take off
Watch Frawley's hands closely during his scenes....he's trying real hard to hide the shakes. Had bad DT's especially toward the end.
So many people have died from cancer from this era! I know because I have lost many family members, all of whom were smokers at that time. In all I have lost 19 family members due to smoking, the first was my Aunt on my Mom's side (I was 5 then & later her husband). Over the years I lost all of my paternal Grandfather's siblings and their spouses. The last was my Grandfather who died at 92 who had quit smoking 35 years prior to his death. He had lung cancer that was missed in his yearly physical exams!
Wow! I'm sorry to hear about your family's losses due to cancer (and smoking). That's rough!
I'm so sorry for all of your loss
Stay strong in the Lord
I've always loved "I Love Lucy," & will watch it anytime but her later shows never held my interest even with the same writers & some of the same actors. I wondered why this should be, & I think I finally hit on the answer. To me, Lucy's character lost a softness that she had playing opposite Desi's character. Thereafter, her characters were always just scheming & zany but lacked a certain warmth, as did the other supporting characters, like Mr. Mooney.
You aren't the first to notice this. Many viewers who have commented felt it wqas because their marriage outside the studio was ending...Sigghh..I haven't noticed this though...oh well...
That’s a good theory, and fits. I believe your correct in that she needed somebody to foil, as it were. Otherwise she’s just a clown running around.🤷♀️ I never liked the solo shows either. But I’ve watched ILL a million times. I practically know all their lines lol.
True about their marriage AND Lucy was in charge of her studio so her time was split between the two jobs.
I liked the show as a kid but after watching Frasier and Becker, none of the early shows were funny anymore. Lucy is downright silly.
@@robjohnson8861 Lucy is a combination of artistry & silliness, (the Harpo Marx bit & others like it come to mind). I loved Fraiser too.
I watched the"I love Lucy" show as a preschooler.In black and white of course.So I thought Vivian was about the same age as Bill...until now.Thank you for informing me!
Deirdre Caskenette Lucille is 5 years older than Desi
Thank you for your wonderful video! I think I read somewhere that the actress Barbara Pepper who later appeared in bit parts in "I Love Lucy" was supposed to be the original Ethel Mertz, however due to problems with alcohol the individuals involved in casting in "I Love Lucy" decided not to choose her but to go with Vivian Vance. Barbara would later go on to star as the first Mrs. Ziffell on the television show "Green Acres". I loved Barbara on that series and wonder how "I Love Lucy" would have been different if Barbara would have played the Ethel role. Having said all of this I think Vivian Vance and Lucille Ball were a comedy duo, and have brought many years of laughs and tears in my life. I wanted to say a few words about Bill Frawley, he was a comedy legend on "I Love Lucy" and I don't care how many times I watch the dvd's of the show he has me in stitches.
There’s a clip here on TH-cam of Vance winning an Emmy. Frawley gets up to congratulate her. I guess they did have professional respect for each other. It WOULD have been interesting to see a “Mertz” spin off although neither had the desire. 🙁
You're right, CR-R. Vance, in particular, couldn't stomach the thought of a Fred and Ethel spin-off!
Spinoffs rarly make it though there have been exceptions.
If you look at that clip more closely you notice that Vivian Vance ignored William Frawley when he tried to shake her hand.
I watch I Love Lucy & The Lucy Show to this day. Although, all my episodes are on VHS as we haven't watched traditional TV since the 90's because of the availability of things on tape/CD and the internet. Frawley's and Vance's true dislike for each other is a great example of a massive personality clash. We all have them from time to time in our careers, just theirs was a behind the scenes public one.
I loved William Frawley on My 3 Son's too and his small part in Miracle on 34th Street... Also remember hearing about the day Bill Frawley died, and Vivian Vance was in a bar when she heard about his passing and she celebrated and bought everyone in the bar a drink!!
Most if not all actors are totally narcissistic, Vance thought Frawley was an olde cussing drunk idiot, but when the curtain came up, everybody did their job to perfection, great series of the "Golden Age" of Hollyweird.........
I L L is classic television , a great cast , story lines and dialogue. I can't think of that show without laughing. Keep up the good work Dave , your channel rocks !!
You're right, Dennis. It's one of the truly great TV show and it always finds a way to make me laugh...even after repeated viewings!
Dave Sundstrom I read in the book Lucy & Ricky & Fred & Ethel that when Lucy got the first script and the name of the show was abbreviated ILL, Lucy got very upset because she didn’t want to think of her show as ‘ill’ so from that moment on, Ricky decided to make the official abbreviation of the show ‘Lucy’.
That book was where I first learned of the animosity between Bill and Vivian. I had not seen a moment of it come through on the tv show, growing up on the reruns in the 70s.
For the record, my two favorite episodes are:
1) The Operetta
2) Job Switching (which really is the perfect episode. They spent 13 weeks writing it as it was the first episode of season two so they spent a lot of the summer on it. It also ended up being one of the show’s lowest rated episodes, and the reason for that is in the book.
After those two, it’s too hard to pick a third, there are so many I love. What are your favorites?
@@RLucas3000 Vitameata Vegimen and Lucy gets the loving cup stuck on her head plus all the Hollywood episodes
From what I've heard, Frawley overheard Vivian say early on, "No one is going to believe that old coot is my husband."
That sounds about right!
Yes he had over heard her,Talking mean about him. I would probably be mad too. And confront her about it in pravitely. I would be like they pick me i am sorry that u feel uncomfortable. Can we work it out. Plan and simple...
@@Blossom48055 I agree. Instead, it seems, he just held a grudge all those years doing the show.
Yes that's what I heard too!
This was a really great look at these two, I had no idea at all. I’m sure I’ve seen every episode of “I ❤️Lucky” multiple times too.
Fun fact:
Vivian Vance grew up around the block from Louise Brooks in Cherryvale, Kansas and played together as kids with the other neighborhood children.
That is a fun fact! Thanks for sharing, Mark!
Glad this vid was put back up. I got a notification yesterday and when I clicked on it the message said you removed it. Thanks for reuploading cause this was one of my favorites as a kid.
Thanks HotOneRecordz! I had to take it down because I needed to correct a picture. The new version is actually much better with more pictures and a couple of additional corrections that I discovered as I was doing more research.
@@jdsundstrom cool!
They were both very good actors! Both would have a tiny smile or a twinkle in their eye when they looked at the other, as if they really were fond of each other
I think we'd be shocked to find out how many actors who had great chemistry on screen hated each other offscreen.
In the other direction, Agnes Moorehead adored both Dick York and Dick Sargent on "Bewitched." Endora, on camera, hated Darrin Stephens.
@@OldsVistaCruiser And Larry Hagman (JR on Dallas) was a total bastard on camera, but was adored by everyone in the cast and crew.
Fred was old enough to be everybody's dad on that show 😆😆😆
It was bad casting. He did look like he could have been her dad instead of her husband.
My favorite Fred scene was when he asked which way did the robber go and he ran the other way 🤣🤣🤣
Love it!
Dave, You probably remember seeing the show, "Here's Lucy" in the early '70's. "The Lucy Show" was in the '60's. They were easy to mix up, because they were both in color & otherwise similar, but, as far as I remember, they were different shows.
You're probably right about that, Sparky.
Here I sit watching this video with my third cup of Maxwell House Coffee having all but forgotten about Maxine! ☕ 😢
How could you, MGB?!!?
I don't remember it either. I do remember Margaret Hamilton (the Wicked Witch of the West) as a spokesperson for Maxwell House.
I really believe it wasnt a feud it was Vivian was to young to have a husband at Williams age and the script had him making fun of her looks and that even as a child l couldn't figure out. She looked more like his daughter than his wife! Lucy and Desi would of done better if they had a comedian in his forties to look more like Vivians husband not in his late 60 or early 70's. He didn't have to look handsome just more Vivians age!
The reason, at least in part, Desi asked Bill Frawley to perform as Fred was because the two were friends. Desi knew Bill's capabilities but made it clear to him if he came into work intoxicated he would be fired. I believe he did so once and was given a second chance.Desi layed it on the line to him again. I think it was because the audience already knew the character, but it could have also been because Desi had a drinking problem as well and knew what Bill was going through.
Gale Gordon would've been perfect!
I could never understand why Fred would say such mean things about Ethel's appearance when he wasn't such a looker himself and was obviously much older.
@@abc64pan I agree. Fred was short fat & bald. He was 61 and looked 71!
I know much older men who look 10 years younger even more so.
But he was friends with Desi how he obtained the part
Don't get me wrong despite their issues the 2 were a perfect blend.
Janet Woods TOO young not TO!
The real compliment to Vivian Vance - one of my favorites of all time - was that if you watch a couple of those "Maxine the coffee lady" commercials is that - although being a loveable character - her eloquent diction didn't really match the type of blue collar worker she was portraying in them! Shirley Booth, yes!
Very interesting point, JS-A!
Shirley Booth was a fine actress. She actually owned "HAZEL". A great movie she did was "About Mrs. Leslie"
@@michaelcook768 another all time favorite! I saw an interview with her years later and she was doing a play. She said some fans of hers complimented her on her performance but still had to add that they "still loved her as Hazel!
@@jons.6216 Loved Hazel !
@@michaelcook768 Another of Shirley Booth's great films was "Goodbye, Little Sheba".
the silver lining is that they were professional even though they didn't have a perfect relationship (s)
Apparently, Vivian also stated in 1966 that "a big bright light has gone out" following William Frawley's passing...
As I under stand it, both Vance and Frawley had vulger pet names for each other. Vance's was old fat a** and Frawley's was old sack of doorknobs. Also, I hear that Desi Arnaz offered both Vance and Frawley a spin-off show featuring Fred and Ethal Mertz in which Vance said "I cannot work with that man" and when Frawley got wind of how much money was lost... he never spoke to Vance again unless work required it. (Source: "Uncle John's Bathroom Reader" book)
The best thing I can recall, is how PROFESSIONAL they were together on the show. Until I watched this video, I had no clue about any fued or dislike between the two.
Professional...and extremely talented!
Yeah. Like in the TV show Charmed, Alyssa Milano and Shannen Doherty *HATED* each other and it totally showed through that Shannen hated her in the show, but you could never tell Alyssa hated her. (SPOILERS) That's why Shannen's character died in the end of season 3. She couldn't take working with Alyssa anymore. Frawley and Vance were extremely talented.
Vivian Vance once that her and William Frawley had a scene where they were supposed to kiss. Frawley would often eat a handful of garlic before.
To my knowledge, there were only a couple of episodes where they actually kissed on the lips. Most of the time, it was just a peck on the cheek.
@@jdsundstrom The age difference would have been more noticeable the more romantic the got. I watched the show when it was first aired and have seen it from time to time since, but I never noticed the age difference until I saw this. I can't wait to ask my 98 year old mom, what she had thought about the pairing.
William Frawley and Vivian Vance. I didn’t notice any tension. I had always thought that these two were giving their all to the show. That is, in my mind, they were just winging it. The rule in the business of entertainment is to never let the audience know anything. An actor never lets the audience see him or her bleed, as it were. These two were perfect as a pair of vaudevillian veterans next to the new generation as Ricky and Lucy(who had some stage experience herself). There were a couple of shows that show this distinction and it worked. Vivian Vance was a beautiful woman.
If ever there was a show biz feud, none could ever be compared to that of Bette Davis and Joan Crawford. While making the movie Whatever Happened To Baby Jane? Davis had a good time tormenting Crawford while shooting, but she gave Crawford credit for her professionalism. A biographer noted that Crawford and Davis were in fact sisters under the skin because they both came up the same way in their careers.
I am glad this was not the case with Lucy and Vivian.
Thanks for this, Dave. Forwarded it (and your Superman crossover vid) to my sister, who is the #1 I Love Lucy fan (even tried to start a business around it-long story)
I'm sure she'll be pleased to see it and hear your comments.
Happy Holidays, my friend. Thanks for providing us with so much info and entertainment over the last year.
Wow! I never knew VV looked so good!
Look at The Lucy/Desi hour with the chicks episode and look at her legs@
I always felt Fred was too old for Ethel. I have even tried to imagine what circumstance might have brought their characters together.
I wonder if Gale Gordab had played Fred Mertz and if Vivian Vance was cast opposite him if she would of treated him the way she treated William Frawley?
I Love Lucy has always been one of my top favorite TV Shows along with The Lucy Show. Everybody Loves Raymond is another one of my favorites and the characters Frank and Marie remind me so much of Fred and Ethel. The way they behave towards each other in their marriages is so similar to one another.
faznout Bullseye 🎯!
Older men marry much younger women all the time! That being said, I think that knowing there was no love lost between Viv and Bill, it is easy to pick up on that dynamic when watching scenes when they had to hug or portray any affection at all. It just wasn't convincing. But I can't imagine anyone else in those roles!
Nancy Goerlich True! Also, His character, whether he was just playing His true self, was rough, gruff and cold, without even a speck of warm & fuzzy.
Age is one thing but he looked WAY too old and he was very ugly
In an interview with *Stanley Livingston* [who played 'Richard "Chip" Douglas' on *My Three Sons* ] there were a few stories he told about Frawley [who played "Uncle Bub' before that show moved to CBS and he was replaced by *William Demarest* as 'Uncle Charlie'] taking *Tim Considine* and him to the live audience rehearsals and filming of *The Lucy Show* where he and the boys would do their level best to disrupt things especially during Vivian's time on stage. Sometimes they would bring in pie tins and other noisemakers to bang or light firecrackers during her performances. He was a bit of a mean-spirited prankster. As you say he never did anything terrible but he certainly liked to rattle her cage for a laugh.
He did have a bit part on the *The Lucy Show* once as a man delivering coal [I believe] where, once he exited, Vivian remarked _"Did that guy look familiar to you?"_
Another great vid. Thanks.
Great stories! Thanks for sharing, Harvey3rdman!
To be honest. That was PERFECT CASTING to pair the two of them. They actually looked the same age tbh
I think they purposefully tried to make Vivian look older.
She said she wanted to break out champagne when he passed? Not liking each other is an understatement. LOL
They said Vivian was at a restaurant when she heard that William Frawley had died. She apparently jumped for joy and bought drinks for everyone.
Yep, that's the story they tell. Champagne for all!
Probably scam publicity...
The second part of what she said was "There's a great big amusing light gone out of this world." Interesting how so many ignore that part. Totally changed the context.
Wow!! Vivian was gorgeous!! All dolled up in that amazing photo! I loved watching I Love Lucy with my mom! She practically raised me on the show. Interesting to learn that Vivian Vance & William Frawley had a bit of a feud, going on behind the scenes. Just seeing pics of I Love Lucy, & watching this video, or an episode, reminds me of my mom, whom I miss so dearly....
I have the entire I Love Lucy series on DVD’s and watch them from time to time. It was always on at my house while growing up as my mother and sister were huge fans. My sister had a large memorabilia collection until she passed away and it went to her offspring. I had heard from her that the Vance-Frawley feud started when he overheard her speaking with someone and referring to him as “the old coot” or something similar, and that they should get someone else.
Ralph DeCew Oh, thank you! I just posted above, stating that I was sure the words ‘old man’ were said by Vivian, but I know you’re right - it was ‘old coot’. My older sister and I were fans, because my mother was such a big fan of Lucy. Highlights of our school vacation mornings were being able to watch Lucy every morning with my mother. I went to Universal Studios in 1995. When we walked into the I Love Lucy exhibit, I got all choked up - I forced myself not to cry, but I really just wanted to sob. So many memories were recalled.
Mari Anne Souza I enjoyed hearing your memories very much as they are so similar to my own! And I had always thought that my sister’s condo was the I Love Lucy exhibit🤣🤣. She would have liked to visit Universal I am certain.
He left out the fact that Frawley went on to appear in the series MY THREE SONS with Fred McMurray.
I understand Vivian’s frustrations, but her and William Frawley’s chemistry was truly unique. It was on par with Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz’s chemistry, though Ball and Arnaz being married in real life no doubt helped them out.
There are probably countless stories revolving around many classic TV shows that we grew up with, but we will always remember the on-screen personas and how they engaged us and made us laugh (and sometimes cry) and we grew up never knowing these stories until years later. None of this has dimmed my memories of the good times watching Bill try to deliver a zinger at Viv and how it always seemed she had a comeback for him that was classic. The off-screen relationship between the two never seemed to harm their on-screen relationship as you pointed out, and I would agree that both were so professional that they left the feud off camera and did their job and then got off the set as fast as they could when filming was over. Another flawless video. Kudos to you, good sir.
I remembered her during seventies the commercial she did. I think it's about cleaning supplies William he was in other show but can't remember which
Fred made the show for me but my dad would comment Lucy looked older like Desi's mom which would set my mom off like crazy and yell oh Monty stop it. Maybe that was the best part I liked when my dad said that
Half the fun of watching TV is the family commentary that comes along with it!
Lucy was older than Desi !! The real life abuse she put up with Desi probably didn't help her either. She was very beautiful when she was young. I have watched movies with her. Google pics of her. The one of her in a wedding dress is breathtaking.
Lucy was 40 at the start of the show...and a heavy smoker. Desi was 35..I think.
They have some of the classic I Love Lucy episodes available on Amazon Prime. It's amazing how well the show has held up. It's still funnier than most of the sitcoms on now. It's funny that as a kid, I never really thought about the age difference between Viv and Bill. But it's pretty bad looking at it now.
I heard that gale Gordon was supposed to play Fred ( Lucy wanted him to play Fred) but he was busy with other movies at that time.
Sad that William Frawley never got a Hollywood star like Vivian Vance did. Why? To me he was a great actor, way funnier than Vivian.
Both of them had on screen chemistry and were funny. Wm Frawley should have received a Hollywood star due to his stellar acting.
William Frawley has a Hollywood star as well. 6322 Hollywood Boulevard
Vivian and Ethel looked like they enjoyed working with each other. I am glad they had a good friendship!
Vivian was Ethel!
It's interesting that you speak of Vivian and William not getting along, I had also heard that Lucille and Vivian didn't like each other because Lucille insisted that Vivian had to play much older than her actual age.
Once I became an adult and took a closer look at the ensemble, Fred and Ethel look terribly mismatched. I chocked it up to being a different time when age disparities in relationships were more common place than later times.
From what I've read, Duan. You are right that, at first, Lucy and Vivian didn't get along. Lucy had actually wanted a couple of other actresses to play Ethel. However, over time, the two became great friends and huge fans of each other's work.
It's a little comforting to know that they came to like each other with time. I guess it's evidenced by the fact that they continued to work together even after Lucy and Desi were no longer a couple and the original show was long gone.
Vivian and bill clicked as a comedy team superbly
VV was an airplane instructor in the movie Tora Tora Tora as the Japanese were about to attack pearl harbor.
I started watching in the '70s and haven't stopped. I love these shows. Whenever I can I watch I love Lucy, Andy Griffith, Good Times, Bonanza, Gunsmoke, There's Company, Happy Days and many more. Those were the days where they give you a message and anyone can watch them. There isn't an episode that I have missed. My wife always tries to quiz me to see if she can stump me. Brings back so many memories.
As a kid I did think Fred was to old for Ethel but I because I had seen it in movies and tv shows, I didn't mind it that much.
Viv & Bill were like water & oil offscreen. But the Lucy & Viv relationship was more complex. While they always cared for each other, there was a point in time when they grew apart & couldn't work together full-time. But they remained good friends & made the occasional joint appearances. While they may not have been as close as before, the chemistry was always there when they reunited. Greatest female comic duo in my book.
You don't have to like each other in order to do a great job.
That's called "professionalism" , which they had in spades.
I didn't know she was a spokesperson for Maxwell coffee.
Neither did i.
I don't know why they cast people with big age differences. I see that a lot watching old sitcoms. Seeing old sitcoms it was always the man that was to old for the role they played. I seen sitcoms that showed small kids and the one who played the father looked like he should have played the role of there grandfather and not father.
That sort of thing continues today. Dumpy guy and trophy wife. King of Queens, According to Jim, Everybody Loves Raymond and others are examples of this that come to mind.
(Again) it was because Desi was dfriends with Bill and felt he would fit the part. He had seen Vivian perform and wanted her for the wife.
Interestikng...C an yolju name the shows?
@@eloiseockert6561 they still play them old shows if you get direct TV. One that looks like a elderly man that don't fit the role is father knows best.
jstnxprsn 📺so true! Cosby show also comes to mind. Turned out it wasn’t just beauty on the outside but on the inside as well! Although of course we didn’t know that until very recently.🤷🏻♀️
I remember hearing the story of the first meeting of everybody! Lucy says she's not frumpy enough! I want someone who is frumpy! Bill says she looks plenty frumpy to me! And Vivian says and your old enough to be my father! Then the director says alright, good, we're in character already!! And the rest is history!📺🇺🇸
Always thought Vivian was beautiful. She played the part of Ethel so well that I didn't really notice the age difference between her and Fred.
Dave did you know that Andy Griffith really casted The Dillards as The Darlings
I did! I love The Dillards and The Darlings!
Loved this show!!!
I was born in 1965 so reruns!
Loved these too seen interview with Lucy after Vivian died she really teared up.
Heard they stayed good friends. Thanks Jennifer 😊 👍
When I was pregnant with my son at 43 I would rest binge watch I love Lucy.
He's 11 now loves show!
When did the word "actress' become a bad word? They still have the best actress awards.
Interesting. I've read many books on the I ❤Lucy show. Bill Frawley always thought Vivian had a magnificent voice and her talent should be used else where. She was in the Great Race w/ Tony Curtis Natalie Wood and other stars. I had heard she had a stroke. Bill was living in a hotel and had gone to a baseball game -which wad his fave-(he had it put in his contract w/ I L L that he be allowed to go to see the Hollywood All Stars.) Anyway, on the way home he had a heart attack and died.
I LL will always be my fave. Did watch the other Lucy shows and the Long Long Trailor...just not as funny. Thanks for sharing
I never knew they didn't get along. But I always wondered and still do, why they cast such an old man for Ethel's husband. I never thought he fit in with the other 3.
It was really overblown that they hated each other.
They just weren't close but they worked ok with each other.
She didn't hate him. She just ignored him in order to avoid seeing how much older he was than she was.
After I Love Lucy, Desi wanted to spin off Fred and Ethel into their own show. Bill Frawley said yes but Vivan Vance said no way! So the spin off didn't go forward. I guess Bill was very angry with Vivan not wanting to do the show.
When you look at movie couples in the last 20 years or so, an older man is almost always paired with a much younger woman. Just the way it is. Never see it the reverse! :))
art imitating life.
And it still bullshit plus he was ugly as sin
I’d never seen her before I Love Lucy, she was a hottie!
They were such good actors you would never know they really didn’t like each other