JB is Monday morning quarterbacking. Easy to second guess. Pogacar laid down a bet. He tried to drop Jonas and put more time on him. It didn't work. He tried. It was a test to see Vinegaard's strength. Jonas passed the strength litmus test. Pogacar now knows the score. All said, Pogi may get beat by Jonas again, but it won't be because of this stage. This race has everything and the rivalry cycling needs. Best race ever. In the mountains, Jonas is likely still the superior rider as he is lighter and has a huge engine.
Pogi gambled and lost. Roglic helped Jonas on the descent while Tadej blew his legs. Jonas hit the next climb with fresher legs. Pogi didn't even have the legs to sprint. It is obvious that Visma is much more disciplined, while UAE lacks unity. If UAE had the discipline of Visma, they'd win. It will be an interesting battle to the end.
@@paulevans6403 I think what people are getting riled up about in regards to these remarks is that it can be seen as "taking something away" from Jonas in regards to the effort he put in. Roglic didn't "help" Jonas. Roglic helped himself, which Jonas clearly gained something from, yes. But people seem to headline the fact that Roglic primarily pulled on the descent and thereby "helping" Jonas, like he was some kind of super domestique for him - but why wouldn't he have, he is way better at descending than Jonas, but as soon as it went uphill again and they were joined by the UAE-guys, Rodriguez and Remco, Jonas towed the group until they all got dropped one by one. But people diminishing Jonas' effort seem to sweep that detail under the rug.
@@trebleseamen Fair point. It wasn’t my intention to take away from Jonas’s amazing effort. My main point is that that Pogi dug too deep and Visma raced with more discipline/intelligently. It’s hard to say how much of a benefit it was to be able to work with Primos on the decent. In the end Jonas had the legs and Pogi didn’t. For Jonas to get the win in the final sprint was incredible.
Jonas showed us his steely reserve today, let’s face it they are mid-way through the Tour and it’s a really great race! And yes, JB (left side) needs to give JV more credit for what he did vs. what Tadej didn’t do. Yes, it’s an unbalanced equation but at least balance the critique.
For a while I didn't like Jonas because of his personality but now, I really like him and as a cyclist, after today and what I saw, he's the man! Bravo Jonas!
I don't like Jonas... and I guess I never will.. anyone believing this recoverybis above board... must be a special kind of stupid.. it's clearly a dodgy business...
Nothing wrong with his personality. Hes actually a very kind and caring man, a family man above all else. Hes just by nature a quiet and shy guy. And as Lars said, thats also very common, where hes from, ppl are stoic and almost withdraw, a guy like Pog, who is also a really nice guy, but in an entirely different way, would be considered a braggart and not in a good way.
From the area he was born and raised in there is Law of Jante: RULE 1 Do not to think you are anything special. RULE 2 Do not to think you are as good as we are. RULE 3 Do not to think you are smarter than we are. RULE 4 Do not to imagine yourself better than we are. RULE 5 Do not to think you know more than we do. RULE 6 Do not to think you are more important than we are. RULE 7 Do not to think you are good at anything. RULE 8 Do not to laugh at us. RULE 9 Do not to think anyone cares about you. RULE 10 Do not to think you can teach us anything.
Jonas has actually won a sprint before: 2023 Itzulia Basque Country, stage 4 - Jonas and Mikel Landa were in a breakaway - Jonas won and a chasing group was 2 seconds behind.
All these are after thought. Everyone thought before the Tour that Pogi should nail the coffin in the first week, should take as many minutes as possible in the early stages. So today, UAE has a strong team so why not to use it. And the next 2 stages are the easy stages for them so the team would rest the next 2 days. Before the stage, nobaby knew how strong Jonas were. He could be weak and Pogi could take a few minutes and nail the coffin.
The commentary is so much bullshit, isn't it? Just like all the fuss made because Remco was frustrated they didn't work to kill off Roglic. Who cares? It's just fabricated media bullshit. Pogacar tried to put time into Jonas and wasn't good enough. That isn't some terrible disaster for them because, as you say, he has the time to recover and still has well over a minute now. This doesn't feel like analysis. It feels like manufactured drama.
@@malehumanperson7901 lol mate, get a grip. While I don't agree with everything what Johan says, he is in the business longer than I can walk and talk, so at the very least I respect his analysis. He has more knowledge in his pinky finger than all of the commenters here together.
@@5508Vanderdekken No, I just think that most of the comments made here are fabricating drama on a stage where he had a reasonable chance of winning. Pogacar lost one second today. That's all. If he had taken time everyone would say he was a genius,
@@Shadowboost Yeah, he was already 5 minutes behind Pog, when Roglic abandoned, and they made him captain, coz he had been staying back and helping Roglic, who was struggling for a few days after his bad crash, b4 he abandoned.
@@matthillard9363 It isn't a guarantee he will win this Tour at all. Everyone stating he absolutely will dominate in the third week is guessing. He might do. He might not.
Interesting how Johan discusses everything from a UAE and Pogachar standpoint. It's UAE and Pogachar losing the tour not Visma and Vingegaard winning it. It's like it is Pogachars to win all the time even though Visma and Vingegaard has dominated for two years. I see no analysis of Vingegaard what so ever.
George Hincapie made a very smart observation about this stage which is that Pogacar stuffed up by being greedy about winning a stage that other great riders who will never be a GC contender could and should have won. As Hincapie said there are many riders who train for years to win a middle mountain type stage and their whole dream is of winning just one stage in a Grand Tour in their career and these chances come rarely and Pog who is still the favorite to win overall should have let a breakaway go and let one of them win. Instead, in George’s opinion, out of greed for another stage win he drove and burned his own team and all other teams in the peloton in setting a ridiculous pace such that they never had a chance and they are pissed off and will in future not help him when he needs it.
the same thing happenned at the giro stage 8, VPP would have won that stage but UAE pulled all day that day right after the ITT that Pogi also won the day before, that stage win was pure greed, here they just took advantage of the long breakaway formation
UAE's tactic was silly. They were using up these guys FOR WHAT? no one in the break was within any distance to Tadej. Tadej is really good at wasting his own and his team's energy reserves. I hope that doesn't bite them back in week 3! Tadej is an emotional rider... he's like Remco, but a little smarter. Jonas rides so differently. He rides conservatively using energy only when needed which will serve him well in a race like the TdF Jonas, is one of my favorite riders. He's smart, he's efficient! He's a great bike racer!
Surely Jonnas is getting tired too , the idea that he will miraculously be getting stronger and stronger is a bit of a stretch for me. hitting him stage after stage is not the craziest of strategies , they know their power outputs so exactly which is why they feel so safe about racing like this.
Eating on the podium? Suddenly sweating on arms during climbing? In/out Of Saddle in final sprint? This all points to a massive bonk. Hence reaching for both pockets to find a gel and putting hand up but say no to the bike with bottles (water only? Certainly not a 80g of carbs in 500ml “super” fuel team bottle). Here’s to an amazing weekend and the final 4-day block in the mountains next week From sports science JB
Tadej won the Giro in spectacular fashion. He dominated it. He wants to do the same in TDF. They have the strongest team in this TDF, and Tadej still has the best chance of winning it this year. Thanks Johan for this great show.
Yes I think your right team uae have bought the same tactics from giro into tdf but its not having same effect and they are burning themselves out . They are pulling for jonas . Team uae want to let vismas pull as pogi has 1 minute spare
JB sums it up: _"UAE tactically did a stupid race."_ _"Today exploded in their face."_ _"They haven't learned from past mistakes ... riding like they did today, that's how the lost the last 2 Tours."_
Wrong. The superior GT rider won the last two years. Better UAE strategy would have reduced the final gap however. Pogi didn’t just lose the last two years, he was crushed. Pogi fans are still in denial.
Love both riders, two completely different personalities with the same goals except Pog loves to win stages and win TDF but Jonas only concerned and goal is win TDF. Both incredible athletes ❤
The bar raid footage was from a short film by legendary French movie maker Louis Malle from the 1962 Tour when Jacques Anquetil was in his prime. In those days amphetamines were rife within the pelaton and part of the "Vive Le Tour" footage was a segment of riders hitting the wall and falling off their bikes in the heat as a result of poor hydration and amphetamines use.
Impulsive Pogi is a blessing in disguise. On one hand the attacks make the race exciting for viewers, on the other hand i agree with Johan, this strategy is a net negative for pogi overall if keeps doing this, he will collapse eventually.
Matxin Fernandez is a complete buffoon. Unless he stands down, Pogi's screwed. We can only hope the Netflix Unchained camera crews have access to UAE. There is going to be an implosion. Fernandez playing favorites with his boy Ayuso, at the expense of Almeida. And the tactical stupidity. Pissing off all the other teams by burning the entire team on stages that should go to a breakaway. Can't wait to see what some of the other D.S.es have to say about that.
I understand JB point of view but i think its a bit lacking the strengths and weakness of both riders. Pogacar is an all around Rider, Vingegaard is an High mountain specialist, so UAE knows they are not not safe with 1 min leading into high mountains. Todays stage was tailor made for Pogacar to win time, I just think Jonas was at an high level and Pogacar bonked, otherwise tour would probably been over.
Yes it was tailor made for Pogacar. Gravel stage was tailor made for pogacar too. And so on. Even on all these tailormade stages Pog cannot damage Jonas. Now when it becomes Jonas' terrain let's see if he can do better - and do some damage
I personally wouldn’t mind if Johan used more colorful language to express his views on how team tactics are run and decisions by particular riders may adversely effect them and their team… Big part of my summer watching this all happen in real time. Thnx JB2.
Another blind attack from Pog? Not rellay, it was calculated attack to demonstrate the overall superiority. But Jonas is strong, and Pog was not quite sure on that, so he tested him again, this time he got burned. On the gravel was head wind, so he was not sure why he couldn't shake Jonas, but the outcome of that stage was a sign to me that Pog tactic need to change immediately, but apparently not for him. Jonas tactic is clear, saving with energy so that it stays glued to the Pogačar wheel and accelerate when the remaining energy is enough to finish the race at a high pace. This is the advantage of Visma, they know exactly how much energy is in stock with every moment, UAE team obviously don't know that. Roglič was racing with the same tactic at Visma, I remember Giro when he was constantly glued to the Nibali wheel, he put Nibali on his nerves racing like this, and as a result they both lost the Giro won by Carapaz. To race like this you need a great software or great instinct, maybe Roglic is a little lost with BORA because he no longer has the same software-tactic support as he had at Visma. Remember this, next year AI will dominate the TDF, Visma van is collecting real time training data for the next TDF already! Un saluto a Davide Cassani, vedo che segue attentamente questo canale e anche i commenti 😉 Ho seguito il ciclismo quando lui è stato un ciclista professionista e successivamente e stato un grande piacere seguirlo quando era nel ruolo di commentatore su RAI2, proprio come oggi. Così anche grazie a lui ho imparato le basi delle grandi corse ciclistiche. Scuola italiana👌
Pretty ridiculous to say that Pog lost 22 and 23 TdF because of tactics. In 2022 he didn't drop Jonas once and Jonas mega dropped him on Granon after a hard day of racing, dropped him again on Hautacam and beat him in the TT. In 2023 Pog obviously didn't have the best of preparations and lost by over 7 minutes. Jonas was in better shape for the 3 week race and destroyed him in the third week because of better physical resilience. If Pog can't do more damage to Jonas in this Tour than he already has done on Galibier and the TT, after the horrendous crash and injuries of Jonas in April, then I think it shows pretty clearly who's the strongest of the two in the Tour de France. Having said all that, Pog is still by far the best rider in the world - just not in the Tour against Jonas in the last two years.
Johan is good and knows what he is talking about, but it seems to me that it isn't recognized that Jonas the last 2 years won because he was stronger, not because of anything else not because of a wrist, not because of better team. It is not for certain Pogacar can ride with the same strategies Jonas can, for me its very clear Jonas has always had an edge when it gets tough, But pogacar can save up a burst that Jonas cant match when it hasnt been all out up to that point. That means Pogacar has to make it count in any hilly or semi hard mountain stage, every bonus second every stage victory. And that is how he has ridden. Today he tried to test Jonas and see if he could finish the tour right there, but it backfired. Just because Pogacar was dominant in the giro doesnt mean hes stronger, Jonas would have been dominant if he had been there crash free and no pogacar. Both are completely dominating when the other is not there. Last year Jonas was completely dominating in the last week of the vuelta (he was sick in the early part). This year pogacar is the favorite, mostly because Jonases brutal crash and the fact he wasnt on the bike before mid may. If he cant win over him this year even with a giro in the legs, then its just settled. And Jonas need to grow old before pogacar will beat him, The strategy is not the problem, the endurance is.
Especially when yonas only prepare s for the tour which is cool but pogi has alot of different important races that he wants to win not just the tour which he's won 2x took 2nd twice and in the lead a 5th time
@@markmartin4793 Its not true that Jonas only prepares for the tour. He races all season. Last year he won everything he entered, Tour of basque, Dauphine, Gran Camino, TDF, And then he came second in Vuelta by gifting away the win to his teammate. He had as many race days or similar to Pogacar and won everything he touched. Vingegaard did the same thing this season, only after winning gran camino for a second time, and then going for Adriatico and winning that, at tour of basque as the defending champion he crashed brutally. So as he planned out to defend both his last years Dauphine and Tour of basque didnt happen due to the crash. And neither will his Vuelta. Jonas is active in races all year round the fact that people dont know about it is just because people arent following. The only difference is Pogacar goes to more 1 day races while Vingegaard goes for stage races week races etc. And Jonas is as dominant as pogacar is in these races.
he won cuz he was strongest even with team he had if he was not strongest it would not end up in 7min gap between them two last year and few min gaps year before that
Small name stage races but big name classics like flounders paris roubaix etc and the couple times they met during the season including last yr at Paris nice pogi dropped him yonas took 3rd yonas has only beat pogi at the tour with better team @TellusJD
Pogis worst enemy is not Pogi... it is Jonas. Yes, Pogi is explosive and amazing BUT in these super long and hard GTs durability/endurance is simply more important and Jonas simply has more durability and endurance than Pogi. Have some respect for Jonas. The reason Pogi rides like he does is that he know that if they go into week 3 without a solid lead Jonas will win every time so he, Pogi, has to try but Jonas will probably win in the end coz no one can hide from the realities of 21 hard stages.
One thing I want to add is that the shenanigans happining to Urška (his fiancee) regarding her not being in Slovenian Olympic National Team certainly aren't helping Tadaj at all.
Pogacar did actually produced more W/kg (6,92) for the penultimate climb. And that is higher than he did in Giro its also one of the highest avaraged climbs for 2024. However, JV avaraged 7,25 w/kg.
Bruyneel is a genius, but it is pretty obvious that he does not acknowledge Jonas Vingegaards qualities. He always talks about the faults of Pogacar. I think it is pretty obvious that Pogacar and UAE tries to gain as much time as they can on Jonas before the Alps and the Pyrenees, because Jonas has shown to gain time on Pogacar on those stages.
It's a gamble that wasn't unreasonable from UAEs strategy point of view. They figured Vingegaard would need to ride himself into shape like everyone was saying so in order to maximize their advantage, Pogacar would need to put in as much time early on before Vingegaard comes into shape.
I agree. Being Danish I'm biased, but love Pogacar's racing nonetheless, and long before the Tour started everyone singled out stage 11 as a Pogacar-stage and then suddenly in hindsight he bonked it because he went for the win?
Agree completely. There is a myth about Vingegaard not being in shape. The guy looks great and definitely loves a challenge. Pogacar said he wasn't scared but the fear will creep in eventually.
Tadej's team needs to carry a stack of extra jells or whatever it is he needs to fuel that engine of his. This happens every Le Tour he gasses himself from lack of calories & fluids. Jonas on the other hand is a machine! Should be a great two weeks. 👍🏻🚵🏽♀️🇨🇵💯
Why? Dumbass drops his own team and wants to do it alone. Teammates can’t help him with gel packs if he won’t let them ride with him. Pogacar should still win but can he get out of his own way? Jonas still needs to make up at least 3:00 minutes because of the stage 21 TT. Pogacar just needs to keep his eye on Jonas’ back wheel . . . But that would be boring and show a lack of balls right?
This show is the best. Great summary of the stage-no ego trip, no self absorption, just well-presented clearly understood facts. Can’t beat Johan with JB.
@@kevinlowery2979 Johan is just repeating the points from The Move podcast and presenting them as his own. If you have seen both shows it is clear that he doesn't have his own thoughts of what's going on. Being an outcast in the cycling community has probably minimized his network and sources.
I feel the plan of UAE going in was to take the whole podium. Hence the 4 rides in the top 10. Visma won the three grand tours last year. As big a splash is UAE placing 1-2-3 here.... Indeed, they do have the best team this year at the TdF but with Jonas' form they have to reevaluate their strategy and concentrate on simply winning the fist spot.
Whatever the elapsed time of the race, there was an average of about 1 extra stage from what we see today. What accounted for 96 days in Yellow is that he was a complete badass. 1969 Tour - 22 Stages (Winner) 1970 Tour - 23 Stages (Winner) 1971 Tour - 22 Stages (Winner) 1972 Tour - 20 Stages (Winner) 1973 Tour - Sat out because of French whining, won Giro and Vuelta 1974 Tour - 22 Stages (Winner) 1975 Tour - 22 Stages (attacked by French fan, kidney punch essentially ending his competitive career) 1976 Tour - Sat out due to injury 1977 Tour - 22 Stages
Jonas is simply a better climber in the high mountains than Pogacar, and Pogacar shouldn't wait until the Pyrenees and Alps to take time on Jonas. He has a disadvantage there compared to Jonas. Why can't people just admit that??
No bruynell this time you comments are wrong. Only time I remember Vingegaard wins 2 min stage 14 two more stagec15. P needs time! In high mtns v, history tells us, topples p. P needed 2 min today. And 2 gravel. He got zero V wins stages 14 and 15, and gc. Only there last 3k sd v attack, otherwise follow follow follow
Thankfully Poga has brought in a wonderful, exciting new era of cycling after the boring doped era that US Postal was associated with. Poga the greatest champion since Merckx!
Jonas is the goat of climbing. Pogacar is more all-round, but inferior in 3 week races. He might still win the tour tho, given UAE team is insane strong
Tadej is enjoying it. And he's right. Winning isn't everything. Reminded of Wiggins' honesty that he wasn't enjoying it when he was at his peak. When he retires, he'll remember his attacks and the fun more than the records and stats, which are just numbers at the end of the day.
I don't understand how people cannot understand that Jonas is just a better mountain climber than Pogacar. End of story. Pogacar knows this, and he knows the 4 hard upcoming mountain stages to come. He most likely cannot take time there. So he tries to use stages like Galibier, this stage or stage 17 to win time. I think Pogacar does the right thing tactically.
Poga this Poga that Poga bonked What a bunch of excuses Hey btw the guy that won 2 last tours won today after a horrible crash that seemed to have happened just yesterday Johan is totally obsessed with UAE management and Poga
Let me start by saying JB2 is often my go to before I listen to Lance and George. Love the show. However this pod was so focused on Pogi and not enough shine on Jonas. As you can see in this comment section the people of The Move are unhappy with Johan’s lack of praise or acknowledgment of Jonas’s performance.
No Johan. Today was terrain favoring pogacar. He has to get time today! Has to. Same gravel, has to get time. Same stages 1,2 must get time there. B c in high mtns vingegaard beats pogacar and beats him by several min. It is precisely in a stage like this, shorter climbs, more explosive, get time here.
not so sure Pogi will gain large chunks of time on uphill finishes. His attack on Galibier gained only 8 seconds (a few more with bonnifications) and only 4 seconds today. His gains were made on the downhill of stage 4 and the time trial. On longer climbs I don't think he can take much out of Jonas.
If Jonas win then its always because Pogacar didnt have the day. You guys never give Jonas the credit he deserve. He nearly died for 3 month ago. He thought it himself. Why not just Accept Jonas is a better GT rider.
I think Pogi was looking to strike while the iron is hot. History suggests he might have a bad day, so probably feels he actually needs a few minutes over Jonas given he is clearly in better shaoe and improving each day.
The issue was not the tactics. Trying to put Jonas under pressure is perfectly fine and there's no guarantee he won't collapse in the third week. It's so boring blaming people when they aren't strong enough to take time.
@@rof8200 There's no such thing as a "match". And if there is Vingegaard used his as much as Pogacar did. Both of them had to ride on their own for the final 20k or so.
Hopefully Pogacar never changes, amazing to watch. Huge props to Pog for changing old school predetermined-outcome racing, which peaked with sky/ineos.
Sure makes for an entertaining watch. And i love Pogacar but i'm afraid If he doesn't change his way of racing the tour he'll never win again. Not with Jonas present.
Chapeau to Pogi, an entertaining personality and one of the best cyclists! If he keeps it up, there is a risk that he'll don't win another TdF. On another hand, if he keeps it up, everyone will remember him still, because of his strength and showmanship.
He should have attacked in the last km of the next climb and gone for a marginal time gap and bonus times. Lengthening the high intensity phase of the race played to Jonas’ strength. All those climbing teammates mean nothing if you drop them.
you heard on the gravel stage uae directior told pogacar when he attacked to "go all in for this one." so I dont think anypne has the reins in that team
I don't think the way UAE rode today is disrespectful to other rival. It's a race, if they want to chase every stage win, that is their right. It's not charity race that everyone has to win. UAE can do their own race whatever they want. But tactically, yes it's stupid. Looking at how Jonas rode today, I really think that Jonas will win TDF. Pogacar seems to be on hot head. I thnk this pyschological war of word about "riding smart".. getting really under his skin. Just listening to his interview answer, clearly he is annoyed about it. And new flash to Remco. Jonas can wipe the floor with Remco ball anytime he wants. This is just an appetizer.
Yeah, see how great it is to ride when everyone else in the peloton hates you because there isn’t a chance for them to win. Maybe they make it harder for your domestique to bring up bottles. Maybe they purposely do something else. Sure it’s not a charity but you’re missing the f u c k I n g point. The peloton is a community and no team is an island unto itself
Let's be more accurate about whether Jonas gets stronger in the 3rd week of grand tours: Historically, Jonas has been stronger than his opponents in the 3rd week of the grand tours. Perhaps that is due to the competition fatiguing more than Jonas, and not because Jonas gains strength during the tour.
Stupid win by vingegaard today. Follow! You don’t have the miles. You are playing w fire. On any stage at any time you can cramp up and lose 15 min. Follow! Till stage 14 stage 15 last 3k you can get 4 min there. Today for all your work you got 2 sec Yes catch pogacar. Good. Then follow! Don’t fight for 2 sec. You undertrained are playing w fire, any time any stage you can blow up, and cramp up, esp v cold or v hot day
I fail to understand how Pogacar is the favorite? No brains, all brawn. His team is all over the place. He bonked out on what seemed to be a tactical stage for him. Vingegaard looks amazing. He looks to be the better climber. The better climber will win. I don't see Pogacar winning from here unless he sits at the back of Vingegaard and matches him in the Pyrenees.
It is ALSO about pure climbing power. Pogacar is not able to sustain the W/Kg Jonas is doing on the longer efforts. This has been evident many times but specially the TT stage last year. Mikkel Bjerg said to Danish tv ‘I guess Jonas just showed that you’re supposed to push 8 w/kg for 10 minutes if you want to win’. Pogacar is not quite at that level in the end of a grand tour. I love Pogacar but find this to be true.
Funnily enough be trained on that all winter and upped his long effort game. He showed it in Giro and perhaps on Galibier. He has gotten less strong in short bursts, because it has to come from somewhere.
@@MeesterJThere’s nothing funny about it.. Headwind on galibier set up a perfect situation for an explosive attack. Jonas and Pog both wanted a higher pace but that would’ve benefitted Jonas more. And please don’t use the giro as an example the competition was just embarrassing. What I’m saying is not that Pog can’t ride long efforts - I’m saying there’s one rider in the world better at it from a pure w/kg perspective. Again I empathise here to not hurt anyone’s feeling… I love Pogacar. Best rider in the world.
Every expert says that Pogacar did a tactical mistake. Why does NOBODY even consider that Pogacar actually might have saved himself from losing time today. I'ts not unrealistic that if Tadej did not get 40 seconds head start before the last climb, that Jonas might have gapped Tadej, and taken like 10-20 seconds on him today. I'm not saying that this is what would have happened, but I do see it as a likely possibility. And the fact that none of the dinosaur experts even consider this outcome is worrying to me...
that sounds improbable. i think it's more likely they wanted to make the race as hard as possible so that jonas doesn't recover for the mountains, considering the 2nd week is relatively 'easy'.
Pogacar had to try what he and his team did. And not seconds but minutes. He had to put time into Jonas before the tour gets into the high mountains. He has done it at every opportunity he had. But Jonas is too strong. With hindsight it is easy to say it is a mistake. That is why he went early and had to take risks. If Visma domestiques get on level, it looks bad for Tadej.
Soon, history tells us, in high mtns, stage 14. 15, pogacar fails, and Remco fails. Tho vingegaard not out of the woods: he’s undertrained! He can cramp up at any moment and lose 15 min. V must therefore be x careful, attack twice only last 3k stages 14 and 15 and never any other time. Never. V pushes it any more than twice, he’s playing w fire. Undertrained!
What I see is that Tadej influence is over the Team Manager Mattin.. I hope if you can ask Johan if this is true .. and that is why there are no tactics it’s just what Tadej wants to do
If you ask me as Lance said in the Move, director that is definitely missing is Allan Peiper, since he was the only one in the UAE team that knew what kind of strategy would be best for Pogačar to win the TDF. He was the only one that knew how to calm him down and when to really attack. It’s so interesting that we all know what is wrong with their strategy and you don’t need any professional education to actually see what is going on here if you ask me. I think that what we saw until now, Jonas will win his fourth TDF!
It's not tgat Tadej has the drive or hunger. I keep hearing oeiple say, "He just likes to compete." No, he thinks hes the GOAT abd wabts to show people he is. Like Tom Brady, he's a braggart. He lacks humility. Jonas has Zen. He has no need to show off. He races against himself. For his family. If Yates or Almeida took the lead, Pogacar would never accept it and step aside.
I listen to JB 2, the Move, Chris Horner, and I watch extended highlights. I love everything. Thanks you!
Joao almeida gave an interview at the end and he sayd they are ready to "attack again" on stage 14....they are crazy man
JB is Monday morning quarterbacking. Easy to second guess. Pogacar laid down a bet. He tried to drop Jonas and put more time on him. It didn't work. He tried. It was a test to see Vinegaard's strength. Jonas passed the strength litmus test. Pogacar now knows the score. All said, Pogi may get beat by Jonas again, but it won't be because of this stage.
This race has everything and the rivalry cycling needs. Best race ever. In the mountains, Jonas is likely still the superior rider as he is lighter and has a huge engine.
Even if Pogacar was bonking, the merit still goes to Jonas, being able to catch him when Pogacar had 40 seconds already on him
when did he have 40 seconds?
@@mickelkobeck7376stage 11 😅
@@1thiago4 Nope, I remember about 28 or so on the decent but I don't think that was accurate.
@@mickelkobeck7376 He opened ~6 seconds at the top, then ~37 seconds at 19,1km to the finish.
The bonking argument seems to always come up, if true it is kind of malpractice.
Pogi gambled and lost. Roglic helped Jonas on the descent while Tadej blew his legs. Jonas hit the next climb with fresher legs. Pogi didn't even have the legs to sprint. It is obvious that Visma is much more disciplined, while UAE lacks unity. If UAE had the discipline of Visma, they'd win. It will be an interesting battle to the end.
Comments like this are so dog brained. Roglic and Jonas were trading pulls - it wasn’t like primoz was toting Jonas down the mountain
@@5508Vanderdekken You don't even understand the meaning of the term helped. You clearly know nothing about bike racing. The comment was spot on.
@@paulevans6403 I think what people are getting riled up about in regards to these remarks is that it can be seen as "taking something away" from Jonas in regards to the effort he put in. Roglic didn't "help" Jonas. Roglic helped himself, which Jonas clearly gained something from, yes. But people seem to headline the fact that Roglic primarily pulled on the descent and thereby "helping" Jonas, like he was some kind of super domestique for him - but why wouldn't he have, he is way better at descending than Jonas, but as soon as it went uphill again and they were joined by the UAE-guys, Rodriguez and Remco, Jonas towed the group until they all got dropped one by one. But people diminishing Jonas' effort seem to sweep that detail under the rug.
Wrong. If UAE had the discipline of Visma they would lose by a less margin.
@@trebleseamen Fair point. It wasn’t my intention to take away from Jonas’s amazing effort. My main point is that that Pogi dug too deep and Visma raced with more discipline/intelligently. It’s hard to say how much of a benefit it was to be able to work with Primos on the decent. In the end Jonas had the legs and Pogi didn’t. For Jonas to get the win in the final sprint was incredible.
Precise questioning, and equally precise analysis.
JB2 is a good double act.
Jonas showed us his steely reserve today, let’s face it they are mid-way through the Tour and it’s a really great race! And yes, JB (left side) needs to give JV more credit for what he did vs. what Tadej didn’t do. Yes, it’s an unbalanced equation but at least balance the critique.
Chapeau Jonas… Respect… 🙏🏻
For a while I didn't like Jonas because of his personality but now, I really like him and as a cyclist, after today and what I saw, he's the man! Bravo Jonas!
I don't like Jonas... and I guess I never will.. anyone believing this recoverybis above board... must be a special kind of stupid.. it's clearly a dodgy business...
He is extremely introvert. Very common from the area he is from
Nothing wrong with his personality. Hes actually a very kind and caring man, a family man above all else. Hes just by nature a quiet and shy guy. And as Lars said, thats also very common, where hes from, ppl are stoic and almost withdraw, a guy like Pog, who is also a really nice guy, but in an entirely different way, would be considered a braggart and not in a good way.
From the area he was born and raised in there is Law of Jante:
RULE 1
Do not to think you are anything special.
RULE 2
Do not to think you are as good as we are.
RULE 3
Do not to think you are smarter than we are.
RULE 4
Do not to imagine yourself better than we are.
RULE 5
Do not to think you know more than we do.
RULE 6
Do not to think you are more important than we are.
RULE 7
Do not to think you are good at anything.
RULE 8
Do not to laugh at us.
RULE 9
Do not to think anyone cares about you.
RULE 10
Do not to think you can teach us anything.
Jonas is way more genuine than Tadej and comes across as a beautiful human.
Jonas has actually won a sprint before: 2023 Itzulia Basque Country, stage 4 - Jonas and Mikel Landa were in a breakaway - Jonas won and a chasing group was 2 seconds behind.
All these are after thought. Everyone thought before the Tour that Pogi should nail the coffin in the first week, should take as many minutes as possible in the early stages. So today, UAE has a strong team so why not to use it. And the next 2 stages are the easy stages for them so the team would rest the next 2 days. Before the stage, nobaby knew how strong Jonas were. He could be weak and Pogi could take a few minutes and nail the coffin.
agree
The commentary is so much bullshit, isn't it? Just like all the fuss made because Remco was frustrated they didn't work to kill off Roglic. Who cares? It's just fabricated media bullshit. Pogacar tried to put time into Jonas and wasn't good enough. That isn't some terrible disaster for them because, as you say, he has the time to recover and still has well over a minute now. This doesn't feel like analysis. It feels like manufactured drama.
@@malehumanperson7901?? A guy who has directed 18 grand tour wins is saying that tadej needs to cool it and you think that’s drama?
@@malehumanperson7901 lol mate, get a grip. While I don't agree with everything what Johan says, he is in the business longer than I can walk and talk, so at the very least I respect his analysis. He has more knowledge in his pinky finger than all of the commenters here together.
@@5508Vanderdekken No, I just think that most of the comments made here are fabricating drama on a stage where he had a reasonable chance of winning. Pogacar lost one second today. That's all. If he had taken time everyone would say he was a genius,
Jonas was second in his first tdf. Then He won his second and third. And He May win his fourth. He is. Legend.
Probably would have made it close in the first one if the team supported him solely instead of Roglic
It nearly a guarantee he'll win this tour with no team
@@Shadowboost Yeah, he was already 5 minutes behind Pog, when Roglic abandoned, and they made him captain, coz he had been staying back and helping Roglic, who was struggling for a few days after his bad crash, b4 he abandoned.
@@matthillard9363 It isn't a guarantee he will win this Tour at all. Everyone stating he absolutely will dominate in the third week is guessing. He might do. He might not.
@@malehumanperson7901 true. He probably Will though.
Interesting how Johan discusses everything from a UAE and Pogachar standpoint. It's UAE and Pogachar losing the tour not Visma and Vingegaard winning it. It's like it is Pogachars to win all the time even though Visma and Vingegaard has dominated for two years. I see no analysis of Vingegaard what so ever.
Amazing podcast prefer listening to these guys than any of the TV guys, realistic, to the point and informed.
George Hincapie made a very smart observation about this stage which is that Pogacar stuffed up by being greedy about winning a stage that other great riders who will never be a GC contender could and should have won.
As Hincapie said there are many riders who train for years to win a middle mountain type stage and their whole dream is of winning just one stage in a Grand Tour in their career and these chances come rarely and Pog who is still the favorite to win overall should have let a breakaway go and let one of them win.
Instead, in George’s opinion, out of greed for another stage win he drove and burned his own team and all other teams in the peloton in setting a ridiculous pace such that they never had a chance and they are pissed off and will in future not help him when he needs it.
@Vlad88822 it’s called stupid tactics
It's called fear. I wonder if that was a strategy from the team car, or Pogacar doesn't listen and does just whatever he wants.
@@epincion that 👆
the same thing happenned at the giro stage 8, VPP would have won that stage but UAE pulled all day that day right after the ITT that Pogi also won the day before, that stage win was pure greed, here they just took advantage of the long breakaway formation
❤
UAE's tactic was silly. They were using up these guys FOR WHAT? no one in the break was within any distance to Tadej. Tadej is really good at wasting his own and his team's energy reserves. I hope that doesn't bite them back in week 3! Tadej is an emotional rider... he's like Remco, but a little smarter. Jonas rides so differently. He rides conservatively using energy only when needed which will serve him well in a race like the TdF Jonas, is one of my favorite riders. He's smart, he's efficient! He's a great bike racer!
Excellent analysis, GT's are indeed all about risk-reward. Thankfully some still get this wrong and we get to watch an amazing spectacle.
I think the big question now is which mountain stage will Pgacar blow up. This weekend or the next.
Best tour analysis out there!
Johan is brilliant 🤩
Thank you for all your time and work on the show
Surely Jonnas is getting tired too , the idea that he will miraculously be getting stronger and stronger is a bit of a stretch for me. hitting him stage after stage is not the craziest of strategies , they know their power outputs so exactly which is why they feel so safe about racing like this.
Eating on the podium?
Suddenly sweating on arms during climbing?
In/out
Of Saddle in final sprint?
This all points to a massive bonk. Hence reaching for both pockets to find a gel and putting hand up but say no to the bike with bottles (water only? Certainly not a 80g of carbs in 500ml “super” fuel team bottle).
Here’s to an amazing weekend and the final 4-day block in the mountains next week
From sports science JB
Tadej won the Giro in spectacular fashion. He dominated it. He wants to do the same in TDF. They have the strongest team in this TDF, and Tadej still has the best chance of winning it this year. Thanks Johan for this great show.
He also won the Giro against competition nowhere near the same level of who's at the Tour right now.
@@fletcherjoel Si, Tadej Pogačar was the only rider in UCI top 25 at the Giro start.
@@sirrex-ug3ug For sure. The Giro was honestly one of the most boring races of the year because no quality GC riders were there to race against Pogi.
Giro was def not as stacked….
Yes I think your right team uae have bought the same tactics from giro into tdf but its not having same effect and they are burning themselves out . They are pulling for jonas . Team uae want to let vismas pull as pogi has 1 minute spare
JB sums it up: _"UAE tactically did a stupid race."_ _"Today exploded in their face."_ _"They haven't learned from past mistakes ... riding like they did today, that's how the lost the last 2 Tours."_
UAE :"wE dOn'T LiKe To RiDe DeFeNSiVeLy". Tour de France GC title: "Au revoir!"
Wrong. The superior GT rider won the last two years. Better UAE strategy would have reduced the final gap however. Pogi didn’t just lose the last two years, he was crushed. Pogi fans are still in denial.
@@luiscolon921 LOL
Love both riders, two completely different personalities with the same goals except Pog loves to win stages and win TDF but Jonas only concerned and goal is win TDF. Both incredible athletes ❤
Love JB in all the shows. He is the voice of all of us normal humans. He translates from the pros to us. Thank you
The bar raid footage was from a short film by legendary French movie maker Louis Malle from the 1962 Tour when Jacques Anquetil was in his prime. In those days amphetamines were rife within the pelaton and part of the "Vive Le Tour" footage was a segment of riders hitting the wall and falling off their bikes in the heat as a result of poor hydration and amphetamines use.
Impulsive Pogi is a blessing in disguise. On one hand the attacks make the race exciting for viewers, on the other hand i agree with Johan, this strategy is a net negative for pogi overall if keeps doing this, he will collapse eventually.
Matxin Fernandez is a complete buffoon. Unless he stands down, Pogi's screwed. We can only hope the Netflix Unchained camera crews have access to UAE. There is going to be an implosion. Fernandez playing favorites with his boy Ayuso, at the expense of Almeida. And the tactical stupidity. Pissing off all the other teams by burning the entire team on stages that should go to a breakaway. Can't wait to see what some of the other D.S.es have to say about that.
I understand JB point of view but i think its a bit lacking the strengths and weakness of both riders.
Pogacar is an all around Rider, Vingegaard is an High mountain specialist, so UAE knows they are not not safe with 1 min leading into high mountains.
Todays stage was tailor made for Pogacar to win time, I just think Jonas was at an high level and Pogacar bonked, otherwise tour would probably been over.
Yes it was tailor made for Pogacar. Gravel stage was tailor made for pogacar too. And so on. Even on all these tailormade stages Pog cannot damage Jonas.
Now when it becomes Jonas' terrain let's see if he can do better - and do some damage
Jonas vingegaard é um espectáculo! Ganhou as últimas 2 voltas à frança. No fim quem vai ganhar vai se vingegaard. Ele é doutra liga...
Pogacar is so good, but he's riding out there like Yosemite Sam. It will take a measured approach to beat Vingegaard.
Jonas finds a way to win.
That's it. And the the job is for people to find the excuses for Pogacar afterwards.
Literally Pogacar fans make all excuses ,Pogačar already said last year Vingegard is man to beat at TDF he is the best
I Like to watch this and the Lance show. Lots of insight👍
I personally wouldn’t mind if Johan used more colorful language to express his views on how team tactics are run and decisions by particular riders may adversely effect them and their team… Big part of my summer watching this all happen in real time. Thnx JB2.
Another blind attack from Pog? Not rellay, it was calculated attack to demonstrate the overall superiority. But Jonas is strong, and Pog was not quite sure on that, so he tested him again, this time he got burned. On the gravel was head wind, so he was not sure why he couldn't shake Jonas, but the outcome of that stage was a sign to me that Pog tactic need to change immediately, but apparently not for him.
Jonas tactic is clear, saving with energy so that it stays glued to the Pogačar wheel and accelerate when the remaining energy is enough to finish the race at a high pace. This is the advantage of Visma, they know exactly how much energy is in stock with every moment, UAE team obviously don't know that. Roglič was racing with the same tactic at Visma, I remember Giro when he was constantly glued to the Nibali wheel, he put Nibali on his nerves racing like this, and as a result they both lost the Giro won by Carapaz. To race like this you need a great software or great instinct, maybe Roglic is a little lost with BORA because he no longer has the same software-tactic support as he had at Visma. Remember this, next year AI will dominate the TDF, Visma van is collecting real time training data for the next TDF already!
Un saluto a Davide Cassani, vedo che segue attentamente questo canale e anche i commenti 😉 Ho seguito il ciclismo quando lui è stato un ciclista professionista e successivamente e stato un grande piacere seguirlo quando era nel ruolo di commentatore su RAI2, proprio come oggi. Così anche grazie a lui ho imparato le basi delle grandi corse ciclistiche. Scuola italiana👌
Pretty ridiculous to say that Pog lost 22 and 23 TdF because of tactics. In 2022 he didn't drop Jonas once and Jonas mega dropped him on Granon after a hard day of racing, dropped him again on Hautacam and beat him in the TT. In 2023 Pog obviously didn't have the best of preparations and lost by over 7 minutes. Jonas was in better shape for the 3 week race and destroyed him in the third week because of better physical resilience.
If Pog can't do more damage to Jonas in this Tour than he already has done on Galibier and the TT, after the horrendous crash and injuries of Jonas in April, then I think it shows pretty clearly who's the strongest of the two in the Tour de France.
Having said all that, Pog is still by far the best rider in the world - just not in the Tour against Jonas in the last two years.
Johan think somehow in 2022 he would have won even though he coudnt drop jonas 1 and was fucked in the mountains and tt
Johan and the MOVE are completely shock with these 2 guys and the Peloton. Nothing normal just mind blowing unclassified TIMES!
Johan is good and knows what he is talking about, but it seems to me that it isn't recognized that Jonas the last 2 years won because he was stronger, not because of anything else not because of a wrist, not because of better team. It is not for certain Pogacar can ride with the same strategies Jonas can, for me its very clear Jonas has always had an edge when it gets tough, But pogacar can save up a burst that Jonas cant match when it hasnt been all out up to that point.
That means Pogacar has to make it count in any hilly or semi hard mountain stage, every bonus second every stage victory. And that is how he has ridden. Today he tried to test Jonas and see if he could finish the tour right there, but it backfired.
Just because Pogacar was dominant in the giro doesnt mean hes stronger, Jonas would have been dominant if he had been there crash free and no pogacar. Both are completely dominating when the other is not there. Last year Jonas was completely dominating in the last week of the vuelta (he was sick in the early part).
This year pogacar is the favorite, mostly because Jonases brutal crash and the fact he wasnt on the bike before mid may. If he cant win over him this year even with a giro in the legs, then its just settled. And Jonas need to grow old before pogacar will beat him, The strategy is not the problem, the endurance is.
Especially when yonas only prepare s for the tour which is cool but pogi has alot of different important races that he wants to win not just the tour which he's won 2x took 2nd twice and in the lead a 5th time
@@markmartin4793 Its not true that Jonas only prepares for the tour. He races all season.
Last year he won everything he entered, Tour of basque, Dauphine, Gran Camino, TDF, And then he came second in Vuelta by gifting away the win to his teammate. He had as many race days or similar to Pogacar and won everything he touched.
Vingegaard did the same thing this season, only after winning gran camino for a second time, and then going for Adriatico and winning that, at tour of basque as the defending champion he crashed brutally.
So as he planned out to defend both his last years Dauphine and Tour of basque didnt happen due to the crash. And neither will his Vuelta.
Jonas is active in races all year round the fact that people dont know about it is just because people arent following.
The only difference is Pogacar goes to more 1 day races while Vingegaard goes for stage races week races etc.
And Jonas is as dominant as pogacar is in these races.
he won cuz he was strongest even with team he had if he was not strongest it would not end up in 7min gap between them two last year and few min gaps year before that
Small name stage races but big name classics like flounders paris roubaix etc and the couple times they met during the season including last yr at Paris nice pogi dropped him yonas took 3rd yonas has only beat pogi at the tour with better team @TellusJD
@@TellusJDthis yr tour of basque country he took 5th in time trial and was down on time when the stage 4 crash happened
96 days ago he crashed...broken collarbone...broken ribs(plural)...bruised heart...punctured lung...he won today.
I am sure the media doped the injury list.
Impressive
Yes. And despite this....Jonas is not the one needing excuses
Pogis worst enemy is not Pogi... it is Jonas. Yes, Pogi is explosive and amazing BUT in these super long and hard GTs durability/endurance is simply more important and Jonas simply has more durability and endurance than Pogi. Have some respect for Jonas.
The reason Pogi rides like he does is that he know that if they go into week 3 without a solid lead Jonas will win every time so he, Pogi, has to try but Jonas will probably win in the end coz no one can hide from the realities of 21 hard stages.
@Music-oi7uy SPOT ON!
Good points at 16:00 job of DS to help keep champions from burning their matches in the wrong places.
One thing I want to add is that the shenanigans happining to Urška (his fiancee) regarding her not being in Slovenian Olympic National Team certainly aren't helping Tadaj at all.
It’s almost worked but it didn’t. End of the day he didn’t lose anytime and couldn’t ride away from him.
Just got home from my training ride, great timing!
100% agree, I have mentioned this in so many posts, The only person who can beat Tadej is Tadej.
Pogacar did actually produced more W/kg (6,92) for the penultimate climb. And that is higher than he did in Giro its also one of the highest avaraged climbs for 2024. However, JV avaraged 7,25 w/kg.
Bruyneel is a genius, but it is pretty obvious that he does not acknowledge Jonas Vingegaards qualities. He always talks about the faults of Pogacar. I think it is pretty obvious that Pogacar and UAE tries to gain as much time as they can on Jonas before the Alps and the Pyrenees, because Jonas has shown to gain time on Pogacar on those stages.
It's a gamble that wasn't unreasonable from UAEs strategy point of view. They figured Vingegaard would need to ride himself into shape like everyone was saying so in order to maximize their advantage, Pogacar would need to put in as much time early on before Vingegaard comes into shape.
I agree. Being Danish I'm biased, but love Pogacar's racing nonetheless, and long before the Tour started everyone singled out stage 11 as a Pogacar-stage and then suddenly in hindsight he bonked it because he went for the win?
Agree completely. There is a myth about Vingegaard not being in shape. The guy looks great and definitely loves a challenge. Pogacar said he wasn't scared but the fear will creep in eventually.
exactly this
@@ghengis46 he's only getting stronger. By the last few days, I think we see a Jonas even stronger than last year
Question 🙋♂️ of the day:
Did Remco brought his pair with him today when they were riding up those 🏔️?
Sure did and he rode extremely well for the third place.
@@malehumanperson7901except he got easily distanced on a climb that would be an appetizer on most mountain stages
I agree with you. They have to ride to defend and attack when it behefit them
Tadej's team needs to carry a stack of extra jells or whatever it is he needs to fuel that engine of his. This happens every Le Tour he gasses himself from lack of calories & fluids. Jonas on the other hand is a machine! Should be a great two weeks. 👍🏻🚵🏽♀️🇨🇵💯
Why? Dumbass drops his own team and wants to do it alone. Teammates can’t help him with gel packs if he won’t let them ride with him. Pogacar should still win but can he get out of his own way? Jonas still needs to make up at least 3:00 minutes because of the stage 21 TT. Pogacar just needs to keep his eye on Jonas’ back wheel . . . But that would be boring and show a lack of balls right?
Bonking is Not why he lost
He lost to a great rider that beat him fair and square
Johan has a vendetta against UAE , it’s obvious
@SasoCasablanca63 pogacar has more power but more weight. He can't sustain that power over 30km and for sure he ran out of glycogen
We are so over "Tadej lost the tours, Jonas didn't win them" Come on, thank you next... Bye Felicia
This show is the best. Great summary of the stage-no ego trip, no self absorption, just well-presented clearly understood facts. Can’t beat Johan with JB.
Absolutely right on. love Johan. just the best. lack of ego is great. nothing to prove.
This show has all the disgrace of the Lance show without the ego. It’s an improvement for sure.
@@kevinlowery2979 Johan is just repeating the points from The Move podcast and presenting them as his own. If you have seen both shows it is clear that he doesn't have his own thoughts of what's going on. Being an outcast in the cycling community has probably minimized his network and sources.
I feel the plan of UAE going in was to take the whole podium. Hence the 4 rides in the top 10. Visma won the three grand tours last year. As big a splash is UAE placing 1-2-3 here.... Indeed, they do have the best team this year at the TdF but with Jonas' form they have to reevaluate their strategy and concentrate on simply winning the fist spot.
The Tour used to be 4 weeks long when Eddie Merckx raced it so that would account for 96 days in Yellow.
Whatever the elapsed time of the race, there was an average of about 1 extra stage from what we see today.
What accounted for 96 days in Yellow is that he was a complete badass.
1969 Tour - 22 Stages (Winner)
1970 Tour - 23 Stages (Winner)
1971 Tour - 22 Stages (Winner)
1972 Tour - 20 Stages (Winner)
1973 Tour - Sat out because of French whining, won Giro and Vuelta
1974 Tour - 22 Stages (Winner)
1975 Tour - 22 Stages (attacked by French fan, kidney punch essentially ending his competitive career)
1976 Tour - Sat out due to injury
1977 Tour - 22 Stages
And how many kilometers compared to the meager amount of now?
@@hectorr.rodriguez3446 Dunno, it's all in Wikipedia.
Jonas is simply a better climber in the high mountains than Pogacar, and Pogacar shouldn't wait until the Pyrenees and Alps to take time on Jonas. He has a disadvantage there compared to Jonas. Why can't people just admit that??
No bruynell this time you comments are wrong. Only time I remember
Vingegaard wins 2 min stage 14 two more stagec15. P needs time! In high mtns v, history tells us, topples p.
P needed 2 min today. And 2 gravel. He got zero
V wins stages 14 and 15, and gc. Only there last 3k sd v attack, otherwise follow follow follow
😂
@@arghkaybee my error, p has improved dramatically
Thankfully Poga has brought in a wonderful, exciting new era of cycling after the boring doped era that US Postal was associated with. Poga the greatest champion since Merckx!
Totally agree with you guys . But this kind of pogacar behavior is what makes cycling fun to watch
Greetings from 🇪🇷❤️🇪🇷
Jonas is the goat of climbing. Pogacar is more all-round, but inferior in 3 week races.
He might still win the tour tho, given UAE team is insane strong
Tadej is enjoying it. And he's right. Winning isn't everything.
Reminded of Wiggins' honesty that he wasn't enjoying it when he was at his peak. When he retires, he'll remember his attacks and the fun more than the records and stats, which are just numbers at the end of the day.
A Tour de France title far, far outweighs any mere record or stat.
I don't understand how people cannot understand that Jonas is just a better mountain climber than Pogacar. End of story. Pogacar knows this, and he knows the 4 hard upcoming mountain stages to come. He most likely cannot take time there. So he tries to use stages like Galibier, this stage or stage 17 to win time. I think Pogacar does the right thing tactically.
They should rename this show to “The Pogacar Fanboy Show”
Poga this Poga that
Poga bonked
What a bunch of excuses
Hey btw the guy that won 2 last tours won today after a horrible crash that seemed to have happened just yesterday
Johan is totally obsessed with UAE management and Poga
Jonas is obviously best climber . Remco and Primoz were very good today, actually on last two climbs they were not slower than Tadej at all
JB’s Fireworks 💥 have just started.
Let me start by saying JB2 is often my go to before I listen to Lance and George. Love the show. However this pod was so focused on Pogi and not enough shine on Jonas. As you can see in this comment section the people of The Move are unhappy with Johan’s lack of praise or acknowledgment of Jonas’s performance.
No Johan. Today was terrain favoring pogacar. He has to get time today! Has to. Same gravel, has to get time. Same stages 1,2 must get time there.
B c in high mtns vingegaard beats pogacar and beats him by several min. It is precisely in a stage like this, shorter climbs, more explosive, get time here.
not so sure Pogi will gain large chunks of time on uphill finishes. His attack on Galibier gained only 8 seconds (a few more with bonnifications) and only 4 seconds today. His gains were made on the downhill of stage 4 and the time trial. On longer climbs I don't think he can take much out of Jonas.
i would not be shocked if it would be other way around and Jonas takes time on Pog on huge mountains
If Jonas win then its always because Pogacar didnt have the day. You guys never give Jonas the credit he deserve. He nearly died for 3 month ago. He thought it himself. Why not just Accept Jonas is a better GT rider.
Johan is the ‘Grand Master’. Could listen to him all day.
UAE playing checkers and Visma playing chess.
I think Pogi was looking to strike while the iron is hot. History suggests he might have a bad day, so probably feels he actually needs a few minutes over Jonas given he is clearly in better shaoe and improving each day.
The issue was not the tactics. Trying to put Jonas under pressure is perfectly fine and there's no guarantee he won't collapse in the third week. It's so boring blaming people when they aren't strong enough to take time.
A human only has limited glycogen. Even the best rider in the world has limited matches at peak power
@@rof8200 There's no such thing as a "match". And if there is Vingegaard used his as much as Pogacar did. Both of them had to ride on their own for the final 20k or so.
JB what time during stage 10 was LA mentioned?
He didn't burn the entire team, in a classic sense, he decided to drop the last two when he attacked.
Bit disrepectfull too Jonas.
Hopefully Pogacar never changes, amazing to watch. Huge props to Pog for changing old school predetermined-outcome racing, which peaked with sky/ineos.
Will never win another Tour again
Sure makes for an entertaining watch. And i love Pogacar but i'm afraid If he doesn't change his way of racing the tour he'll never win again. Not with Jonas present.
Chapeau to Pogi, an entertaining personality and one of the best cyclists! If he keeps it up, there is a risk that he'll don't win another TdF. On another hand, if he keeps it up, everyone will remember him still, because of his strength and showmanship.
He should have attacked in the last km of the next climb and gone for a marginal time gap and bonus times. Lengthening the high intensity phase of the race played to Jonas’ strength. All those climbing teammates mean nothing if you drop them.
you heard on the gravel stage uae directior told pogacar when he attacked to "go all in for this one." so I dont think anypne has the reins in that team
I don't think the way UAE rode today is disrespectful to other rival. It's a race, if they want to chase every stage win, that is their right. It's not charity race that everyone has to win. UAE can do their own race whatever they want. But tactically, yes it's stupid. Looking at how Jonas rode today, I really think that Jonas will win TDF. Pogacar seems to be on hot head. I thnk this pyschological war of word about "riding smart".. getting really under his skin. Just listening to his interview answer, clearly he is annoyed about it. And new flash to Remco. Jonas can wipe the floor with Remco ball anytime he wants. This is just an appetizer.
Yeah, see how great it is to ride when everyone else in the peloton hates you because there isn’t a chance for them to win. Maybe they make it harder for your domestique to bring up bottles. Maybe they purposely do something else. Sure it’s not a charity but you’re missing the f u c k I n g point. The peloton is a community and no team is an island unto itself
The Fantastic 4 bring us a great TDF! Ever! In less than a half of the tour.
Let's be more accurate about whether Jonas gets stronger in the 3rd week of grand tours: Historically, Jonas has been stronger than his opponents in the 3rd week of the grand tours. Perhaps that is due to the competition fatiguing more than Jonas, and not because Jonas gains strength during the tour.
Pogi is on way down, Vingo is on way up, Remco is nowhere, Rogla is Rogla
Stupid win by vingegaard today. Follow! You don’t have the miles. You are playing w fire. On any stage at any time you can cramp up and lose 15 min. Follow!
Till stage 14 stage 15 last 3k you can get 4 min there. Today for all your work you got 2 sec
Yes catch pogacar. Good. Then follow! Don’t fight for 2 sec. You undertrained are playing w fire, any time any stage you can blow up, and cramp up, esp v cold or v hot day
Lest you all forget…
Tadej Pogacar has already ridden and won a Grand Tour this year.
Lest you all forget, Jonas almost lost his life three months ago
That was his choice and he got paid a lot of money to race the Giro. If your going to try for the double then it's probably now or never.
So?
@johan would you have told the team to sit up today?
I fail to understand how Pogacar is the favorite? No brains, all brawn. His team is all over the place. He bonked out on what seemed to be a tactical stage for him. Vingegaard looks amazing. He looks to be the better climber. The better climber will win. I don't see Pogacar winning from here unless he sits at the back of Vingegaard and matches him in the Pyrenees.
Jonas is so good he is going to win against the best rider in history for the third time
It is ALSO about pure climbing power. Pogacar is not able to sustain the W/Kg Jonas is doing on the longer efforts. This has been evident many times but specially the TT stage last year. Mikkel Bjerg said to Danish tv ‘I guess Jonas just showed that you’re supposed to push 8 w/kg for 10 minutes if you want to win’. Pogacar is not quite at that level in the end of a grand tour.
I love Pogacar but find this to be true.
Funnily enough be trained on that all winter and upped his long effort game. He showed it in Giro and perhaps on Galibier. He has gotten less strong in short bursts, because it has to come from somewhere.
@@MeesterJThere’s nothing funny about it.. Headwind on galibier set up a perfect situation for an explosive attack. Jonas and Pog both wanted a higher pace but that would’ve benefitted Jonas more. And please don’t use the giro as an example the competition was just embarrassing. What I’m saying is not that Pog can’t ride long efforts - I’m saying there’s one rider in the world better at it from a pure w/kg perspective. Again I empathise here to not hurt anyone’s feeling… I love Pogacar. Best rider in the world.
Remco seems to loose his balls when it’s a bit uphill. The boy needs some more gots in the upcoming mountain stages.
Every expert says that Pogacar did a tactical mistake. Why does NOBODY even consider that Pogacar actually might have saved himself from losing time today. I'ts not unrealistic that if Tadej did not get 40 seconds head start before the last climb, that Jonas might have gapped Tadej, and taken like 10-20 seconds on him today.
I'm not saying that this is what would have happened, but I do see it as a likely possibility. And the fact that none of the dinosaur experts even consider this outcome is worrying to me...
that sounds improbable. i think it's more likely they wanted to make the race as hard as possible so that jonas doesn't recover for the mountains, considering the 2nd week is relatively 'easy'.
Pogacar had to try what he and his team did. And not seconds but minutes. He had to put time into Jonas before the tour gets into the high mountains. He has done it at every opportunity he had. But Jonas is too strong. With hindsight it is easy to say it is a mistake. That is why he went early and had to take risks. If Visma domestiques get on level, it looks bad for Tadej.
Soon, history tells us, in high mtns, stage 14. 15, pogacar fails, and Remco fails.
Tho vingegaard not out of the woods: he’s undertrained! He can cramp up at any moment and lose 15 min. V must therefore be x careful, attack twice only last 3k stages 14 and 15 and never any other time. Never. V pushes it any more than twice, he’s playing w fire. Undertrained!
What I see is that Tadej influence is over the Team Manager Mattin.. I hope if you can ask Johan if this is true .. and that is why there are no tactics it’s just what Tadej wants to do
If you ask me as Lance said in the Move, director that is definitely missing is Allan Peiper, since he was the only one in the UAE team that knew what kind of strategy would be best for Pogačar to win the TDF. He was the only one that knew how to calm him down and when to really attack. It’s so interesting that we all know what is wrong with their strategy and you don’t need any professional education to actually see what is going on here if you ask me. I think that what we saw until now, Jonas will win his fourth TDF!
It's not tgat Tadej has the drive or hunger. I keep hearing oeiple say, "He just likes to compete." No, he thinks hes the GOAT abd wabts to show people he is. Like Tom Brady, he's a braggart. He lacks humility. Jonas has Zen. He has no need to show off. He races against himself. For his family. If Yates or Almeida took the lead, Pogacar would never accept it and step aside.
It can't just be a fueling mistake. That's what Tadej blamed his loss of time two years ago on. If he hasn't learned that lesson yet, he never will.