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The reason Scotty and the rest of the bridge crew felt the impact of the cadet's death so much was that the cadet was Scotty's nephew. The scene that explaied their relationship was cut from the final edit
Fully agreed. For anyone that doubts the full impact of this instrument, just listen to the soundtrack during the final charge of Gurney and the Atreides soldiers during the sneak attack in the new Dune movie... simply stunning.
Spock fixing his uniform just before talking with Kirk at the end gets me every time. This final moment of dignity before saying goodbye to his friend. "I have been, and always shall be, your friend."
It's a subtle moment, but one that lives in my memory as well. Leonard Nimoy was always intensely protective of the character of Spock. His mastery of personal moments like that speaks to the great deal of thought that Nimoy has always put into realizing that person on screen. Not only must Spock be in intense pain, blind, and dying - but he's _still_ using immense effort to suppress his emotions and present a dignified, controlled appearance in front of his crew, his commander, and his friends.
Fixing his uniform, attempting to end his life with the dignity befitting a Star Fleet legend and hitting his face on the glass…………..that gets me every time. And of course Shatner; “His was the m’ost………..human” I’d like to thank the academy.
Ricardo Montalban gives the most epic, legendary performance as Khan here. I love this film for so many reasons, but every time I marvel at how much he just elevates the role to one of the best movie antagonists of all time.
The reason Montalban was so ripped was his back injury. He suffered a back injury years before on a film set. He kept in such great shape to compensate for his weak back. Ultimately he wound up in a wheelchair for the last part of his life.
Whats more amazing is that he and Shatner's Kirk never meet face to face. I'm having a hard time recalling any other movie where the protagonist and antagonist never share the same space but you'd swear they had been later.
Ricardo Montalban was a great actor in every performance he gave his entire life. But Star Trek II propelled him into immortality. Just the best performance of his life and taking into account he wasn't even on the same set and same scene as Shatner the entire movie is nothing short of astounding.
Spock's death killed everyone in the theater. The whole packed house left the movie house -- sobbing --. Nimoy was very clear that he never wanted to play Spock again. It was the time in his life when he wrote his first autobiography entitled "I AM NOT SPOCK". It was only once he saw just how absolutely devastated the cinematic death of his character had left even casual fans that Nimoy re-evaluated his relationship to the role and the fandom, and then issued a follow-up autobiography titled "I AM SPOCK".
He later said that he was completely misunderstood about the name of his biography. He didn't hate Spock, he loved that part of himself and was very grateful for it. He wanted to say that he wasn't just Spock, but also a human actor named L. Nimoy. For actors who love their job precisely because of the opportunity to slip into other roles, it is often very difficult to limit yourself to just one role and become famous. Of course it's a financial blessing, but artistically it's a curse.
I vaguely remember the Trek novelist Peter David (maybe) saying at the time that Nimoy should have written a third memoir called "Oh hell I admit it, I'm Spock, for four and a half million dollars, I'll be Carmen Miranda." 🤣
I've seen this movie dozens of times, and since the first time I saw this I was in tears, still do everytime this scene comes up, even after all the times I watched it.
Khan did nothing but lift weights and read revenge novels those years. Kirk drank Romulan ale and got a pair of bifocals. How you gonna write a compelling fight around that?
And as far as character study, Khan has enough going on with intellect vs revenge. No need to throw 'I will out testosteronize you with my muskles' into that.
I find it more compelling as a captain vs captain in a space naval battle rather than a one on one duel/brawl. It is a very effective and clever decision. Kirk couldn't hope to match Kahn in one on one combat, and Khan's hubris brings him to believe he is a better ship commander despite it being Kirk's advantage. So many correct decisions were made with this film all the way around. One of the plus sides of having to overcome a restricted budget.
@@bucky5869Yes. This is how it would ACTUALLY go in life. Navy captains don't leave their warships to meet 1 v 1 to do a fist fight to determine the outcome! WTF have the warship at all then? Every film that does that is just stupi*. Its sad they really don't get Star Trek at all. If they did they'd revel in glory with this decision. Not throw a fit about it.
Not sure which cut you're watching, but there's a cut that reveals early on why Scotty was so emotional at that trainee's death- it was his own nephew. The novelization takes it a step further and says Scotty was harder on him than all the other cadets BECAUSE it was his nephew, and that's why the kid stayed at his post.
The trainee was also played by Ike Eisenmann who happen to play Tony in Escape From Which Mountain. I remembered him from that because when I first watched Khan in theaters, I remembered my age appropriate movie crush from back in the day and it broke my childhood, now adult, heart a little bit.
@@targetaudience the young man on Khan’s bridge who told him to just leave with Genesis was Khan’s son with MacGuyver. When he died, Khan just gave up and concocted his suicide plan as long as it would also kill Kirk, as Khan had lost everything at that point.
@@brettharris7696No way. It’s not even really a director’s cut. It’s the ABC TV version from the 80s that shoved in a bunch of useless scenes that slow the pace of the film.
Fun fact: When Kirk's voice cracks at Spock's funeral, that wasn't just acting. Shatner really was moved by the scene and his voice caught there. They left it in. It was the perfect touch.
@@jakerazmataz852 I don't believe it was so much animosity as it was professional rivalry as actors. Even so, they were close till the end of Nimoy's life, but that was more-or-less two friends losing contact, which happens.
There's a joke, I think made by Walter Koenig, that the reason Khan remembers him despite us never seeing him in the episode, is that Khan needed to use the restroom at some point before leaving the ship but Checkov on the lower decks was using it so Khan swore vengeance!
Koenig did admit, years after the fact, that he knew damn well Chekov never met Khan. But he kept his mouth shut about it lest the juicy part he played in it would go over to Sulu.
Nimoy appeared on a British chat show prior to the release of Search for Spock and was asked if he appeared in the movie. He replied, it'd be a huge let-down if, at the end of the movie, Kirk just turned to camera and said "Well, we didn't find him."
Nah, that could set up "Star Trek IV: Another Search for Spock" And "Star Trek V: The Continuing Search for Spock" "Star Trek VI: I'm Starting to Wonder if Spock is Even Out Here, Honestly" Not to mention "Star Trek VII: Perhaps Spock Just Doesn't Want to Be Found?" And on we go…
Yes. STAR WARS (1977) Death Star (vector graphics) was created by University of Illinois - Chicago , which was a First for film usage. Funny, when you consider for 2001 film (1968) Univ. of Illinois Champaign-Urbana created HAL 9000.
When Harve Bennett was interviewed for the job of producer, he was asked "Can you make a movie for less than $44 million?" He replied "I can make FIVE movies for that ". Some of the sets are reworked from TMP, but every penny of that budget is up on the screen. The training sequence was made to offset the spoiler of Spock's death that has been leaked months before. This movie, more than TMP IMHO, ushered in the next chapter of Star Trek.
They reused the shots of the Enterprise leaving Dry Dock from TMP. That’s why the Enterprise has that pearlescent paint job in Dry Dock, but then switches to the matte white paint job in every other shot of the movie. It’s because ILM did the effects work for TWOK and had to spray a matte white paint over the studio model, so it would work with their blue screen technique. The TMP pearlescent reflective paint would’ve caused problems.
The Production Designer liked the look of some protective Foam packaging he saw, so they made multiple molds of the Foam, and thus created Wall Panels fof the Enterprise and for other Interior sets.
Spock’s death was a MASSIVE event at the time. Remember, no internet or social media so they were able to keep it under wraps. When the rumor started leaking out they added the beginning scene with his “death” to sort of a red herring throw people off. It was just stunning but Nimoy didn’t want to play Spock anymore but he changed his mind during the making of this movie. Reportedly, much of the crew was crying during Spock’s death scene.
Spock's "solution" to the no win situation is such a great moment. Kirk has spent his career able to trick, gimmick and b.s. his way out of every situation, but Spock shows that sometimes the only solution is to sacrifice your own life, manhandle a starship engine back into functioning and save your ship and its crew.
Yes! It is the theme of the film, its an indictment of Kirk dodging the no win in the test back in his academy days. Spock talks the talk and walks the walk
In the end of the grand scheme of things, Spock was the only one to ever beat The No Win Scenario. He sacrificed for the win, died, came back to life, became an ambassador, and even traveled to another time-line and helped his planet relocate. That's a life no one can really argue that Spock lived of full and meaningful life.
In principle I always thought that since Captain Spock defeated this test with his life and was brought back. How should Starfleet reward him? Admiralty should've been next. I don't think Shatner would have it. Lol!
Ricardo Montalban was on a break from his television show Fantasy Island so they really only had him for about 2 weeks. So the script was written around his availability that's why he has no scenes directly with the rest of the cast. In addition to that Nicholas Meyer the writer-director really wanted to do a submarine style nautical battle. So that's why we have the final confrontation that we do.
A weird tension indeed! Up to that point, Kirk had almost never said "no" to a pretty lady who made him an offer, and it seems to him that Saavik's aware of his reputation and prepared to exploit it.
I’ve seen it likely close to that and got to see it in theaters for the first time. Movie came out the year I was born. I freaking cried, for the first time. As we’re people of all ages in that theater.
I’ve seen it likely close to that and got to see it in theaters for the first time. Movie came out the year I was born. I freaking cried, for the first time. As we’re people of all ages in that theater.
I saw this in theaters when it first came out. When Kirk's voice breaks during the eulogy, EVERYONE in the theatre I was in started crying. I was sitting in front of a row of women, and all of them were weeping. Even my own dad, who was a bit of a critic of Shatner's acting (my dad thought Shatner was the biggest ham ever), said that this was some fantastic acting.
I think what the film is most successful at is making all the human interactions finally feel deep, real and authentic. You actually believe these people are old comrades, friends, lovers, enemies, and it makes the universe feel more real than ever. The grittier effects and make-up add to this of course. I just love it.
The reason they keep coming back to the Kobayashi Maru is because the Kobayashi Maru is the entire theme of the movie. The point is how do you deal with the no win situation. How do you deal with death. As Kirk says, "It's a test of character."
You're absolutely right in saying that Nimoy only agreed to do this film if they killed his character off, much like Harrison Ford did with Han Solo. But while they were making the movie, Nimoy had such a good time and could tell it was going to be good, so he asked for some loopholes being written in to the plot that might allow him to come back, which they did on the fly. But when this movie came out, there was no ST III, there was no Spock, Nimoy was done. And we all were devastated.
Not quite correct they they tried get him to appear and to convince him they said what if we gave you a great death secne? Leonard regretted killing him off after how well the film went and felt.
That’s because Nimoy hated making The Motion Picture. In his own words: “It’s a nightmare. It’s a horror. And it was the making that first movie. Was very very dispiriting. Very depressing. Had a bad script. Bad script. That just never worked. It was always a struggle to try to figure out how to bring some life to this project. And we did our best. But I never… the pendulum swung completely when that first movie came along, from being an actor and character-oriented Star Trek to an effects-oriented Star Trek. “And the feeling was, oh we didn’t have the money before, now we’ve got the money, we’ve gotta give them a big effects movie, so it was all about the ship the ship the ship, and this effect and that effect, and we’re going through this thing and now we’re going through that thing. Nothing about the characters. So it was frustrating and depressing and very painful. “Right down to the last day! Right down to the last day of shooting, we tried desperately to inject. and occasionally they’d say, okay we’ll shoot a little. Let you come up with an idea. Then they’d cut it out of the movie. “The last day we’re on the bridge shooting the final scene of the movie, we’re all saying goodbye to each other, we’ve all come back supposedly for this mission and now we’re going back to our homes, and so forth. And Kirk goes around to the various characters and says: ‘Okay Dr McCoy, we’re going to take you back,’ he was coming out of retirement or something, ‘we’re going to take you back and go to Georgia.’ And McCoy says, ‘I think I’m here, I’ll stay.’ “And he came to me and says, ‘Spock we’ll have you back on Vulcan in a day or two.’ And I’m supposed to say, ‘Fine Captain, I think I’ll stay as well,’ or something. And I thought, let’s go for some fun here? We’ve been so somber this entire movie. There’s been no humor, no charm. Which Star Trek was full of! Charm and humor! Full of it! “So the final rehearsal, when he came to me and McCoy had just said he was going to stay on the ship, I said ‘Captain, if Dr McCoy is to stay here, my presence here will be essential.’ Got a big laugh out of the whole crew. Big laugh. “And then I saw a huddle with the bosses, off camera. And Bob Wise, bless him, who was directing the movie and really himself had said many times he didn’t have a grasp of Star Trek, came to me and he said, well the feeling is it’s not the right tone to end the movie, which should be a little bit more serious. “And okay. It was my gift to you. You don’t want it, fine, I’ll take it back. Hehe. They wouldn’t let me do it. And that’s an example of the kind of frustration that we had on the movie.”
Originally, the movie did not have the last shot of the casket/torpedo on Genesis, or Nimoy's closing narration. The preview audience was devastated. That, plus Nimoy's enjoyment of the shoot and wish to continue, convinced Harve Bennett to put in those last two elements for the release version. It left the fans with hope for the future and worked well, even though Nicholas Meyer objected to it, at the time.
@@DeltaAssaultGaming Man, scenes like that would have helped TMP so much. Every time I've watched that movie I just completely zone out while they're going through the cloud. There's just... nothing. Effects and people looking at effects. There's a handful of decent scenes, but mostly it's just "The Changeling" (Nomad) stretched to 2 hours, but with no character banter and lots of exterior shots.
Which is like being half Vulcan and half Vulcan. It makes no sense and i'm glad they cut that. Romulans are Vulcans, they're an offshoot from the time of Surak.
@@TriarchVisgroup It's not exactly, though. Romulans don't suppress their emotions. And Vulcans have done that for so long that it's partly genetic. (Romulans also lack most of the Vulcan telepathic abilities, as those derive largely from the emotional suppression... Vulcans have better control over their own minds.) So being a half-Vulcan/half-Romulan is much more closer to Spock's half-Vulcan/half-Human. It serves to better explain why Saavik isn't as stoic as most Vulcans. She smiles, she swears, she cries. (They dropped this aspect in the following movies when they recast her, and she acts like a full-blood Vulcan.)
Merritt Butrick (Dr. David Marcus) was 23 years old in 1982. Assuming the same age for David Marcus, he would have been 5 or 6 at the time of the episode "Where No Man Has Gone Before" in which Gary Mitchell mentioned setting Kirk with "that blonde Lab technician" that Kirk "almost married". Many Trekkers consider that blonde lab tech to be Carol Marcus.
The novelization gives some more backstory. The cadet that Scotty brings to the bridge is his nephew. But, more interesting, is Saavik’s backstory. She is a Vulcan Romulan hybrid, whom Spock rescued from a Romulan prison planet, and she became his protege. ( My fan theory, since disproven by subsequent movies, was she was Spock’s daughter, by the Romulan Captain in ‘The Enterprise Incident.’ )
Also, the longer cuts of the movie do say it's Scotty's nephew, too. I'm pretty sure, too, that the novel includes some conversations between Saavik and David, which he is sort of referring back to when he's talking with Kirk at the end.
@@joeconcepts5552 Spoiler Alert! In the novelization of the next movie it is shown that David and Saavik become lovers. This is not even implied in the movie. In the 4th movie it is a fan theory that Saavik stays on Vulcan because she is pregnant. Thus her child is Kirk’s grandchild. If my fan theory were at all possible, it would be Kirk’s and Spock’s grandchild. Of course, my fan theory is wrong There is an additional fan theory: Not only is she pregnant, but it is the young, regenerated Spock’s child.
@@RicktheCrofter The original script for "The One With the Whales" had Saavik staying behind on Vulcan because she was pregnant with Spocks child from the Pon Farr incident on the Genesis planet. The reference to her being pregnant was cut from the movie however.
The way that this movie holds up over time is just incredible...it is so good on so many levels and in so many ways.💯👍 And a big part of it for me is the music, so... R.I.P. James Horner 😢
@@trhansen3244I, am hesitant to agree, as this is perhaps the One instance where bringing back a dead character has been appropriately set up in the plot… But mostly, it is because I love Undiscovered Country.
One of my favorites of the movies. The emotional punch of losing Spock was so intense. Remember, when we saw this in theaters there was no next movie. So we really were shocked.
This is what I had always figured...he was on the ship, just not important enough to get any mentions in the Ship's Log...or the historical documents. LOL
Indeed. In fact, Sulu isn't in the episode either. It is also worth noting that Chekov was in "Catspaw" which has an earlier stardate than Space seed. So Chekov was definitely assigned to the Enterprise at that point. I have always just accepted that neither were on duty when the events of Space Seed happened.
That was the official story to cover up Director Nicholas Meyer's goof up. Meyer had never seen the TV series and only watched episodes when he was assigned to direct, and decided to use Space Seed as a back story for the next movie. Roddenberry had nothing to do with this movie, as for the disappoined response to The Motion Picture, or he might have caught that.
For me, this is a "no-notes" movie. The story, characters, direction, cinematography, effects, sets, costumes, etc. are all spot on. The movie works as both a Star Fleet mission story and a character-driven story. I've seen it many times and still laugh, cry, and cheer at all the same points. I can understand the disappointment in not having Kirk and Kahn physically together in the same space, but I like the decision to make the final confrontation a battle of ships. Star Fleet is after all the "space navy" and not the "space army." And, it also plays to Kirk's strengths as the captain of a ship. I also like the introduction of Kirk's son as part of the character's arc. He's growing older and both looking ahead to what he still wants to do as well as looking back at what he gave up.
The Khan and Kirk being separated the entire time echoes back to this movie not only being a sequel to "Space Seed" but it's also heavily inspired by "Balance of Terror", a fan favorite TOS episode that I recall you didn't think was that great. So makes sense that that bothered you in this movie. For me, though, this is a near perfect film. I love it!
Curiosly, they seems to have problems with many great installments of the show. Another one is "The Doomsday Machine". It was a great surprise that they actually like "The Moton Picture".
As you noticed, as did many fans at the time this movie was released, Chekov wasn't in the first season when "Space Seed" takes place so, how could he have met Khan? Walter Koenig used to like to tell a story to explain this discrepancy. He'd say that Chekov _was_ on the Enterprise at the time but, as a low ranking ensign, he was relegated to cleaning the latrines. Well, Khan developed a bad case of "Montezuma's Revenge" and one time when he was rushing to the toilet he literally ran into Chekov causing him to "soil himself" before he could get there. Khan's response? "I'll never forget your face!".
chekov was to fill in for sulu when George Takei's role in The Green Berets (1968) as Captain Nim, a South Vietnamese Army officer alongside John Wayne's character, took him away from Star Trek filming and he only appeared in half the episodes of that season. Walter Koenig as Pavel Chekov substituted for him in the other episodes. When Takei returned, the two men had to share a dressing room and a single episode script. Takei admitted in an interview that he initially felt threatened by Koenig's presence, but later grew to be friends with him as the image of the officers sharing the ship's helm panel side-by-side became iconic
This set the standard for Trek, they’ve been chasing that high ever since. I’ll never forget leaving the theater and saying “no way, they didn’t just kill Spock”.
To see two big tough lads like you guys tear up and be so like choked up to the point of crying as we all are when we watch Spocks death and funeral scene shows exactly how well it was done. Excellent point re Bones, it would have been good to have seen him shed a tear. Good job on this one boys, as always.
This story is basically Moby Dick; here’s a quote from the novel and now in this film:”He tasks me. He tasks me and I shall have him. I’ll chase him round the moons of Nibia and round the Antares maelstrom and round perdition’s flames before I give him up”
and his dying words were from Moby Dick too. Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering whale; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell’s heart I stab at thee; for hate’s sake I spit my last breath at thee. Sink all coffins and all hearses to one common pool! and since neither can be mine, let me then tow to pieces, while still chasing thee, though tied to thee, thou damned whale! Thus, I give up the spear!
In point of fact, the plot can be described as a duel between _two_ classic novels - Melville's *Moby Dick,* of course (which can be glimpsed on the bookshelf on Ceti Alpha V), and Dickens's *A Tale of Two Cities,* an antique copy of which Spock presented to Kirk in the beginning for his birthday. Though neither book is directly referred to in the film, each of the two opposing commanders speaks lines therefrom (it's interesting to note also, that Khan's quotes were made during the chase, where Kirk only referenced the other before and after the entire affair). 🤓
@@Swiftbow By heavens...do you know, in all the years since I first saw the film, it's never even _occurred_ to me to take that vital plot point into consideration! 😮😲 😆 😉
The battle sequence between Khan and Kirk is truly enthralling. I’m not talking the CGI, although that was great, I’m talking the writing. The back and forth, ebb and flow, call and answer between them throughout is masterclass and just has you captivated on what’s gonna happen next.
No CGI, they were scale models and pyrotechnics. The Genesis planet demo sequence was however one of the first instances of computer graphics in a movie, and at the time was ground-breaking. Director Nic Meyer mentions in the DVD audio commentary that when they (he and crew) all saw it for the first time “it was all *gasps* ! 😮
I saw all of the original cast films in the cinema other than TMP, mostly the opening weekend...not sure if I watched WOK opening weekend...but I do remember how Spock's death really affected me as he's my favorite of the Big 3 but I fully understand that all 3 have to be there for the conflict to work. Ego, Id and Super Ego in character form.
Allow me to share a somewhat long winded memory. At the close of 1982, my cousin Dave passed away. Our last exchange was at the end of a memorial party in honor of our grandfather. As I was about to leave, Dave had to ask me a question. "Do you remember all of the trivia questions we answered over the phone?" When we were in high school, he was staying at my house for summer vacation and we spent a lot of time listening to the radio. A premiere of Star Trek II was coming to our small town and they were giving tickets to the first caller who could correctly answer various questions about Star Trek. We won a total of four tickets. It was, we were told, the world premiere of the movie. It was released in my small town before it was released in the big cities. We took my mom and my sister. The theater was filled with nothing but die hard Star Trek fans. We all cheered when Kirk's crew lowered the shields on Khan's ship. And, of course, completely silent during the now famous final scenes. Possibly the best movie going experience I ever had. Dave and I both heard rumors that Spock would die. Neither of us told the other. We wanted it to be a surprise. As I left the party, I plumbed my memory for answers. "Who played Spock?" Everyone at the party knew that one. You didn't even have to be a Trekkie to know that one. "What was the name of Spock's father?" They were a little more impressed with that one. "What was the name of Spock's mother?" Yeah, I guess the radio station was lacking in imagination. But we couldn't think of the 4th question we answered. Maybe I will never know. It might be lost forever.
Kirks pilot episode mentions a “blonde lab technician” that Gary Mitchell had set Kirk up with, and Kirk says he nearly married her. That was decided to be a Carol Marcus reference when breaking the story for this movie. Looking forward to the next few film reviews! Keep up the great work.
Did you guys know that Khan's last words are the Last words of Capt Abe of Moby Dick, as He plunges the whale killing lance into Moby Dick's backside! Khan was reading Moby Dick for the last 15 years stranded on that desolate planet! So as he went insane he kind of likend himself to Capt Abe!
How we got here: The first ST movie made money, but had gotten mixed reaction, and Paramount felt that if there were to be sequals, new blood was needed. So Gene Roddenberry was kicked upstaries to the role of 'Creative Consultant'. Enter Harve Bennett, who had TV and Movie experience, but had never seen Star Trek. So to get a feel for the show, and possible story ideas, he grabbed some film prints, snacks and friends, and took to one of the screening rooms for some 1980 style binge watching. Got to 'Space Seed'; regognized Ricardo Montalban, and really liked his character. And when the episode ends the way it did and the line about 'the seeds you have planted today', Bennett said, "That's my movie!" Montalbon was still very much involved in the TV series 'Fantasy Island' when the movie was filmed, so yes he had a very limited shooting schedule. He took the role, because when he wasn't on screen, they were still talking about him.
I love this move so much because it is more than just a space shoot em up. It was a movie about aging and the regrets that come with it. The older I get the more powerful this movie becomes for me. The theme of the roads not taken and the poor thoughtless decisions made in youth biting one in the ass later in life ring true. Khan is bitter and vengeful as his life led him to a wasteland and loss of his loved ones. He tried to conquer a world and then when losing fled to space. He then made the same mistakenon the Enterprise trying to conquer it. That led him to his exile again and another attempt to conquer a doomed world. Kirk is isolated and unfufilled despite an exemplary carrer. He is literaly surrounded by the past in his home. All of his choices and rule bending brought him to almost complete defeat. You mentioned how Khan never seemed to win at any point... the same goes for Kirk. He temprarily tricks his way out of situations he put himself in by poor choices but it is Spocks sacrifice that allows him to "win". And that Sacrifice was a far greater loss to Kirk than merely losing a battle.
>> The older I get the more powerful this movie becomes for me. Absolutely. I enjoyed it on one level at age 19 when it came out, and appreciate it on a much deeper level now at age 59.
If you go back and look at the second pilot, Gary Mitchell actually says something to Kirk that could tie into this movie. He talked about the little blonde lab tech that he pointed at Kirk. And Kirk is like I almost married her!
Honestly, a lot of people will say to watch Space Seed and Wrath as a double-bill, but IMO watching Wrath of Khan a moderate amount of time after Space Seed is the optimal experience. It helps to have gotten slightly fuzzy on the exact details of the episode so you don't pick up so much on the small and irrelevant inconsistencies. Watching the TV series and then going on to the movies puts it at the ideal point.
Initially, *Leonard Nimoy* had some issues with *Spock* being so tied his identity in his post TV series years. He even resented it to a degree. Going so far as to writing a book called, _"I Am Not Spock!"_ So, when it came to playing *Spock* _again_ for a second film, he negotiated a deal where he did indeed come back for the film, but his character must die. He eventually came to terms with his *Spock* character, as he then wrote a follow up in 1995 called, _"I Am Spock!"_ This newfound appreciatioin for *Spock* really came through over the following films and TV shows. 🖖
Ricardo Montalban starred in Fantasy Island at the time, and they had to shoot Star Trek around his schedule. He and Shatner filmed their scenes at entirely different times. That is why they were never in any scenes together. In fact, the bridges for both the Enterprise and Reliant were the same set. They just dressed it differently for as needed for each crew.
Saw it in the theater three times when it came out. Fantastic on a big screen. The whole audience was sobbing during Spocks death scene. This film saved the movie franchise.
Weeeeeeeeell, this is what Bennet and Meyer kept repeating in interviews at the time. Self-agrandizement, big time. I highly doubt that the franchise would have ended had this film never been made.
De Kelley was great as Bones in the series but for me he really shines in the films. This film is huge pop culture wise but for me number 6 is the best Star Trek film, followed by 4.
I hate going along with the trope that the even numbered TREK movies are the best, but of the original movies, yes, 2-4-6 are the peaks and 1-3-5 are the valleys. I still hold ST2 as the best of ALL the Trek movies, but UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY is a close second, with FIRST CONTACT third.
@@maxshenkwrites In some ways, I feel like Star Trek 3 is slept on. It doesn't reach the heights of 2-4-6, but the villain was great on screen, and the movie was great setup for the plots in 4 and 6.
I totally agree, the 6’th film is probably my favorite now. I always watched this with my dad growing up and with my first pay check, I took my dad to watch “The Undiscovered Country”. It’s one of my best memories.
I like that Kirk and Khan didn’t meet face to face, it sets it apart from every other story. The fact they’re on different ships gives that Horatio Hornblower thing with ship battles on the high seas.
Right @13:33 when Scotty says "He stayed at his post when the others ran." - That line of dialog was actually from a historic WWI obituary after The Battle of Jutland and refers to Jhon Travers Cornwell who stayed at his post, with dead sailors all around him, waiting for further orders from the captain.
In the novel as well as the extended version of the film, it's established that the cadet Scotty carried to the bridge was his nephew. Which explains Scotties reaction.
To answer your question regarding Khan and Checkov knowing each other, they apparently ret-Khan'd it in the novel that Checkov was on the ship, but not bridge crew during Space Seed.
33:12 to answer your question about why Ricardo Montalbán and William Shatner are not on the screen together... In the original screenplay they had a fight on Rigal 4. But Ricardo Montalbán had a huge hit television series (fantasy Island) that made it impossible to do that kind of scene. So, to help with his schedule, and to save money, they redesigned the Enterprise bridge set to look like a different bridge by rearranging the walls. Then they shot all of the Enterprise bridge first then the reliant bridge second. This allowed Ricardo montalban to play his role as Kahn then return in time for the next season of Fantasy Island.
Surprised you guys didn't check out the extended version which I thought was pretty common now. Scotty talking about his nephew is a nice character moment. Kirks son didn't bother me much. Kirk would have been about 30 when David was born and almost ready to take on the Enterprise. No doubt Carol didn't really give him any ibfo on their son,maybe a quick message telling him to stay away or something and Kirk probably never saw him. The scene with David and Kirk at the end was really touching and it all goes towards Kirks story of having to deal with things changing. It also adds to the next film. And on first watching I was a bit disappointed that Kirk and Kahn didn't meet face to face. But after realizing that it was really a story about one man dealing with mid life crisis and another who couldn't get past his obsession that way they set things up for them to encounter one another again didn't bother me. After all Khan needs a way to leave his planet,thus the Reliant. But why is the Reliant there? Genesis. Once Kahn has the ship then things just fall into place. He attacks,of course. Kirk outwits him and strikes back. After that it just wouldn't have made as much sense if they did meet. Kirks real enemy here was simply having to deal with life which was beyond his control even though he strived to be in control. It all works well. You get a kind of story where they meet with Into Darkness and it's incredibly dumb.
A little bit of trivia. When Harve Bennett approved the design for the Reliant, he actually looked at it upside down and approved it. That's why the nacelles are below the saucer.
Perhaps one of the greatest pieces of art ever put to celluloid, and after so many decades it still hits at every moment as the first time I saw it. Glad you lads got the chance to experience it.
Director Nicholas Meyer replied that even in his sixties Montalbán, who had a vigorous training regimen, was "one strong cookie", and that his real chest was seen on film. Khan's costume was specifically designed to display Montalbán's physique. Montalbán agreed to take the role for a significant pay cut, since by his own admission, he relished reprising the role, and his only regret was that he and William Shatner never interacted - the characters never meet face to face, except through video communication - as their scenes were filmed several months apart in order to accommodate Montalbán's schedule for Fantasy Island
You got it exactly right - Nimoy had such an unenjoyable time during the making of TMP he had no intention of returning to the Star Trek franchise. Harve Bennett, who was given the producing duties for the sequel but had to use Paramount's television division to make this film (one of the consequences of the vastly reduced budget) approached Nimoy with an offer: Come back for Star Trek II and we'll give Spock the most dramatic death scene you can think of! Nimoy agreed, anticipating it would be his final appearance in Star Trek. Leaks of the script and Spock's eventual death made it out to the fan communities early during production, causing an intense uproar. As a result, the script was revised, adding the simulator scene and Spock's apparent death within the first five minutes of the film in the hopes it would throw off the fans and make them believe it was all a joke and that Spock would survive the film. In the original script, Spock would have been killed during Khan's initial attack on the Enterprise. The revision moved it to the end of the film, saving the ship. Part of what allowed this movie to be completed on a much smaller budget was almost all the sets they needed already existed. One reason the TMP budget was so high is Paramount rolled the costs associated with developing what was supposed to be the second TV series (Phase II) - building sets, creating props and costumes, writing scripts - into the film's budget. The decision to leave the sets standing in the Paramount sound stages after TMP was completed was fortunate. All the existing TMP sets like the bridge, sickbay, engineering, corridors, and crew quarters were redressed - in the case of the bridge the set was cut into 'pie slices' so sections could be moved around, allowing easier filming inside the set and easy re-dress to appear as the bridge of the Reliant. They would go on to become the longest standing sets in Hollywood - first built for Phase II in 1977, modified for TMP in 1978, refurbished and used for the films Star Trek II through Star Trek IV, modified to become sets for the Enterprise-D in The Next Generation, and elements of the original standing sets would go on to appear as parts of USS Voyager in Star Trek: Voyager. The original sets would finally be dismantled and replaced by the sets for the Enterprise NX-01 of Star Trek: Enterprise in 2001. The character of Saavik was originally intended to be a half-Vulcan/half-Romulan character that Spock had rescued from a failed Romulan colony sometime around the first season of the Original Series and who was raised by Spock's parents Sarek and Amanda, which is why Kirsty Alley portrayed her as a bit more emotional and strong-headed than the typical Vulcan. Unfortunately, all mention of Saavik's duel-heritage was edited out of the film (and subsequent re-edited releases) so as far as recognized by canon Saavik is a full-Vulcan. She would be played as such when re-cast with Robin Curtis in the sequels. The Director's Cut of this film makes it much clearer (by actually stating it outright) that Cadet Peter Preston was Scotty's nephew, his sister's oldest child, which explains the emotion displayed by Scotty at the cadet's death. And yes, it's true Chekov was not in Star Trek's first season when "Space Seed" was produced. Originally it was supposed to be Sulu who was Reliant's first officer (ironically, George Takei wasn't in Space Seed either), but during script revisions the character was swapped with Chekov. It has been accepted by the fandom that Ensign Chekov was indeed aboard the Enterprise during the first season, just not yet posted to a position on the bridge. One cameo you probably missed was that Reliant's communications officer was Commander Kyle - played once again by John Winston. Lt Kyle was one of the recurring Red Shirts aboard the Enterprise throughout the course of the Original Series (most often as one of the transporter technicians) and first appeared in the episode "Space Seed."
The spaceships are a representation of Kirk and Kahn. That was the meeting of them. I never really considered the lack of in person fighting as an issue, Kahn is that superior in strength in that way it would be very one sided I do get wanting them to interact in person, reacting to each other in that way.
There's plenty of interaction between Kirk and Khan. I think it's just the wrestling fan in them that wanted an actual fight. I get the feeling they're going to like ST3 more than this one.
Although Kahn had superior physical strength, Kirk was the superior tactician and had superior martial arts skills, which he demonstrated in defeating Kahn in their first physical fight in Space Seed. Therefore, the fight between Kahn and Kirk in Space Seed demonstrated that Kahn's superior strength would not make a fight between them "very one sided" as you claim.
Kirk showed Khan that despite his genetically engineered "superior" intellect, that he was not only out of touch but that he was way out of his league!
Considering that this is only fifteen years after the TV series, and his son looks more than 15 years old, Kirk fathered the kid years before becoming captain of the Enterprise.
Without spoiling which one or how it is, there is one more movie in the franchise that could be said to be a sequel to an episode. It's not one of the TOS movies, so it'll be quite a while until you get to it, but I think y'all will appreciate it. I very much look forward to seeing y'all react to the next two movies, as they, along with this movie, act as a Trilogy, with each movie leading directly into the next. As usual, an excellent reaction, and I can't wait to see the next reaction!
So they say this is 15 years after the episode "Space Seed." The original series and Star Trek Continues was a 5 year mission. The animated series another 5 year mission with a mostly new crew, but the same command staff. Then the first motion picture occurred and that new crew did another five year mission we never see on screen. The Enterprise was then made into a training ship for cadets, which is where this movie opens.
Yeah.. I wanted to see a face to face interaction between Kirk and Khan too.. but not sure if they could have pulled it off in a believable way. The space battles between the two were great.. and Kirk yelling KHAAAN! Also.. Kirk’s son does play off into the next movie, which I believe you have seen now 🙂
The director said he wanted to make this Horatio Hornblower in space. Two captains matching wits in battle. Similar to Balance of Terror. In that episode we had two characters gain respect for each other even though they were never in the same room.
@@richardb6260 That's an excellent point! IMO, the Kirk's son issue is not really an issue. C'mon the Captain is spreading his seed all over the galaxy, so it's feasible. Besides Carol may have been that "little blond lab technician" that Gary Mitchell aimed at him. Lol!
There was a believable opportunity for Kahn to face Kirk by beaming down to the Genesis lab after Captain Terrell and Chekov failed to kill Kirk, in a sort of "if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself" moment, but I think that having Kahn leave Kirk trapped on the planet as a fitting eye-for-an-eye revenge for Kirk having done that to Kahn was a better choice for the story, especially since it provided another opportunity to show that Kirk had planned a way out of that "no win" scenario as well. Unfortunately for Kahn, he fell into the same trap as the Bond villains by not just quickly killing the hero as soon and as directly as possible.
@@luminiferous1960 Agreed! Perhaps this was more of a chance to showcase his superior intellect versus an aging Captain now Admiral. Maybe his pride was still damaged from that engine room beatdown he took and didn't want to chance it? Lol!
Supposedly, Saavik was supposed to be half-romulan. In a deleted scene, Peter Preston was Scotty's nephew. That's why he was so sad about the death of an engineer. III is easily D Kelley's best performance. The working title was Vengeance of Khan. Which. Was too close to the working title of Revenge of the Jedi. For the best both titles ended up changing.
So, a common plot hole that gets brought up, which Josh brings up, is that Chekov had yet to show up on Star Trek during Khan's episode of Space Seed, but Scott Mantz over on Enterprise Incidents has a theory/head cannon that fits perfectly in which, if the stardate system that gets used works how he thinks it works, then if you line them up, it shows that Chekov was already aboard the Enterprise during the events of Space Seed, but just wasn't assigned to the bridge yet. Not absolute canon for sticklers, but neat, nonetheless.
Yes! You guys really felt Spock's death and the eulogy Kirk gave for Spock. Loved every moment of this reaction. P.S. Scotty always gets me with his bagpipes too!
Apparently, Walter Koenig was responsible for checking the continuity with Space Seed. There was no way he was going to write himself out of the movie.
ST 2 The Wrath of Khan was HUGE when I was kid. I've seen this movie countless times & Spock's death always gets me. It's a treat to see people discovering Star Trek, Star Wars, etc. for the 1st time. You guys (as ST fans) seeing this for the 1st time was great. Can't wait until u get to ST: The Next Generation.
2:25 In the original backstory for Saavik , she was supposed to be half-vulcan, half-romulan (and not having begun proper vulcan mental practices until she was around 6-8 years old), which is why relative to vulcans her emotions/reactions are very much near the surface. (This was, unfortunately, never elaborated on so the way Alley was directed can come across as "wrong" to some viewers, but she was indeed following the character's backstory as originally intended.) Sidenote: this is the first proper hint that vulcans and romulans had had a closer/still-sustained contact that was generally known, even among the broader romulan and vulcan populace. (You'll see more about that down the line...)
@@Chou-seh-fu It was also in the original filming of WoK, but the line and scene were cut (like many were, such as where it was noted that Midshipman Preston was Scotty's nephew). It was then incorporated into both the comics and the novelization. (This is why it isn't canon, but secondary source material; however, the related elements of her characterization -- her expressive emotions, by Vulcan standards, such as when she says "Damn" during the Kobayashi Maru, or flirts with Kirk in the turbolift, or later has a tear for Spock after his death, etc -- were all premised on her being half-vulcan/half-romulan, and not having had the initial cultural influence until she was at least 6-8 years old.)
Only thing that surprised me about your discussion/review at the end was that you didn't mention or perhaps weren't particularly impressed by the filmmaking and staging in the Mutara Nebula scene. I always thought the use of silence and then sudden slow/fast dynamics were incredibly impressive. Plus the ILM effects are amazing.
It was never mentioned in any movie but in the novelization of "The Wrath of Khan" Saavik was said to be a hybrid between a Vulcan and a Romulan, which may be the reason why she is crying at the end.
Really? I guess I have never watched this one. Otherwise I am pretty sure I would have remembered. It would appear I need to watch that version some time soon.@@johnmackendrick5173
In the director's cut it's explained that Peter Preston is Scott's nephew. That's why he's so shocked when Peter dies. I love Kirstie Alley in this film. In some ways she outVulcans Spock.
Hey Alex & Josh, I was watching this reaction again and noticed that there are more LOL moments in this reaction than any of the other Trek you guys have done including TOS. I think that when you do Star Trek IV The Voyage Home there just may be even more LOL moments! 😀🖖
Hey guys, I've got some bad news for you. If you think that Spock's death scene isn't going to hit you as hard as this first, you're wrong! I've rewatched this movie dozens of times, and even watching your review was making me misty. IT GETS YOU EVERY FRICKIN' TIME!
When I first saw this in theaters, it was touted as an ending to TOS and the final voyage. Kirk older, Enterprise beat up, Spock dead. A son would also allow stories following the next generation of Kirk. In TOS, it's always strongly suggested that Kirk had a bad relationship, so he recentered his attention on the ship. In the "Naked Time" it is first setup as Kikr's motivation. In fact, in "Where No Mah Has Gone Before", Mitchell talks about 'aiming that little blonde tech at Kirk'. Kirk says he almost married her. Now we find out what happened to him and that relationship. It would be years before another movie came out. And each, except 5, was "the last movie". Think you guys should consider watching all the TOS movies before Next Gen. My $.02. Great job guys!
I was a very active fan through all of those years, and they were not all touted as the final voyage. That is simply not true. Also, you make it sound like there was a long gap after this movie, but Star Trek 3 came out only two years later. Before posting, you should remember that other people also lived through those times and that facts can be checked.
Spock’s death scene was written specifically to entice Leonard Nimoy to sign on and there was initially no intention of Spock coming back. That would change, however , as filming was reaching an end and Nimoy enjoyed the experience and had second thoughts.
Walter Keonig is so under utilized. He is a very good actor and unfortunately got typecast. THEN, he was cast in a little show called Babylon 5, as Alfred Bester, and everyone's favorite character you love to hate, was born.
This is the only movie I have ever waited in line overnight for. It did not disappoint. It remains my favorite Star Trek film of all time. I remember people commenting that Ricardo Montalban's bare chest had to be a fake chest piece, as he was in his 60's at the time. Nope. Mr. Roarke was stacked. Who knew? 😆
2. Starting at the end, I want to congratulate my fellow members of the Target Audience for their self-discipline in keeping the secret of this movie’s ending from Alex and Josh for all these months. We all knew from the start that this was the single biggest spoiler in the Star Trek franchise, and that the guys absolutely would not want to know about it in advance. Commenters (including me, I regret to say) shared more spoilers about everything else about Star Trek than Alex and Josh would have liked, but the conversation never approached the climactic events of Wrath of Khan without dissolving into oblique and incomprehensible hints. (Admittedly, their filtering words must also have helped. Did they include the words for the cessation of all bodily functions and the service commemorating someone’s life?) In fact, spoilers about the ending were a major problem during the writing of Wrath of Khan. Leonard Nimoy was at first uninterested in playing Spock again. At the suggestion of co-writer Jack B. Sowards, the producers lured Nimoy back for the second movie with the opportunity to play Spock’s death scene. Producer Harve Bennett and director Nicholas Meyer originally planned to kill Spock in the *middle* of the film for maximum shock value. However, Gene Roddenberry, now working on Star Trek in a purely advisory capacity with no decision-making power whatsoever, was deeply upset by Spock’s planned death. He unprofessionally leaked the news to Star Trek fans, who began a letter-writing campaign to save Spock. As a result, Bennett and Meyer decided to move Spock’s death to the end of the film to serve as its emotional climax. While discussing this situation one day, Bennett said in frustration, “We should just kill him at the beginning of the movie and get it over with.” To his surprise, Meyer replied, “That’s perfect!” This was the origin of the apparent deaths of Spock, McCoy, Uhura and Sulu in the opening Kobayashi Maru sequence. By revealing that Spock’s “death” was merely part of a simulation, the filmmakers hoped to fool audiences into thinking that the rumors they had heard about Spock’s fate referred to this event. Kirk emphasizes this by jokingly asking Spock, “Aren’t you dead?” The ruse worked: on first viewing, Star Trek fans relaxed back into their seats with a false sense of security at the end of the opening sequence, thus maximizing the impact of Spock’s actual death at the end of the film. Note that a line from the voiceover in the original theatrical trailer for Wrath of Khan is misleadingly accurate: since Spock is, technically, the captain of the Enterprise in this film, and since he concurred in the decision to exile Khan to Ceti Alpha V in “Space Seed,” Khan truly was “Banished by a starship commander he is destined to destroy.”
I saw an interview once with Walter Koenig where he said he was well aware that Chekov was not on the Enterprise when they found Khan but he wasn't about to say anything and lose screen time!
5. At one of the first screenings of Wrath of Khan, a fan showed up with a portable television and VCR, set them up outside the theater, and played “Space Seed” for the fans in line. Kirstie Alley is billed as “Introducing” in the opening credits because her only previous film credit (which was only her second screen acting role overall) was for "One More Chance," an expanded student film released in 1981. The “Introducing” credit traditionally means that the performer has had no previous roles in professional feature films. The film’s on-screen writing credits do not tell the whole story. Jack B. Sowards (credited with the screenplay) and Harve Bennett (credited with co-writing the story with Sowards) were among several writers who contributed to earlier drafts of the script. When Nicholas Meyer joined the project, he was dissatisfied with the script as it then stood and asked for copies of all the earlier drafts. Putting together various story elements from the earlier versions, Meyer drafted his own script in a week, but never sought a writing credit on the film. Meyer has said that every line of the shooting script was his except for “This is the garden spot of Ceti Alpha VI,” which he ascribes to Bennett. In addition to the normal script changes prior to and during filming, there were crucial changes to the climax and ending made late in the production process, of which Meyer did not approve. Surprisingly, this film’s opening caption is the first time Star Trek has specified the century in which it takes place. TOS kept the date deliberately vague to avoid arguments among writers and viewers about whether specific items of technology should exist yet, and there are contradictory dating clues in various episodes. In an early format document, Gene Roddenberry suggested that Star Trek took place sometime between the years 1999 and 2999; as we now see, that turned out to be correct. The caption at the beginning of Wrath of Khan came about because a studio executive was concerned that an elderly female relative (either his grandmother or his mother-in-law) would not understand the movie but thought she would understand it perfectly if it began with the words, “In the 23rd century”! (I do in fact think that Wrath of Khan is readily comprehensible to viewers who have never seen Star Trek before, although the story would carry far less emotional weight for them.) Future installments of the franchise will clarify the fictional chronology further.
Saw this opening day in 1982. I even had the poster they handed out for years afterwards. It's still my favorite Trek movie, and like everyone in the audience, was wiped out that they killed Spock. There wasn't a dry eye in the house once the lights came up, and several were openly crying. There were so many great scenes in this one, and I"m glad you guys appreciate them, and also realize this was the early 80's and don't expect the level of special effects that we have now. Great review and I'll be watching your reviews of the other 4 with the original cast.
This film has the 2nd best space battle scene ever when Kahn surprise attacks the Enterprise. And it ends by having the best space battle ever when Spock sacrifices himself. The special effects hold up so very well here. They look real because they are actually real! Not CGI which has a lifespan of 2 to 5 years in almost every instance. But here those battles were amazing to watch. Even made better with HD version. That means the models they made here were out of this world to stand up to higher resolution not possible when the film was made.
The production team wanted to have a face to face confrontation between Kirk and Khan but they couldn't figure out a way to do it. Also, Ricardo Montalban had a problem with his leg as a result of an old back injury (he had back surgery right after shooting this movie and used a walker in his later years) and probably couldn't do a fight scene
When I was 10 I loved it for the space battles In my 20-30s the music and dialogue As I approach 50, it’s about how we can deal with death as least as important as how we deal with life “I feel young” This is simply the greatest film ever made
I can't go so far as to say it's the greatest film of all time, but I don't feel shy at all including it in my top ten of all time list, which includes AMERICAN GRAFFITI, THE GENERAL, DUCK SOUP, ALL THE PRESIDENT'S MEN, BUTCH CASSIDY AND THE SUNDANCE KID, MR. HULOT'S HOLIDAY, and PLAYTIME. Somewhere in that unranked mess of film, ST2 is right at home.
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The reason Scotty and the rest of the bridge crew felt the impact of the cadet's death so much was that the cadet was Scotty's nephew. The scene that explaied their relationship was cut from the final edit
There's a reason you did not see Bones cry at Spock's funeral.
I like 4 better than 2
Even though Chekov wasn't in the first season, his character was still a crew member on the Enterprise during that time.
you guys will take years to finish Star Trek, nearly 700 hours!! 🤓
Let's be honest about this... this is the reaction everyone in the Target Audience audience has been waiting for.
I've been waiting for this and for some key Next Gen episodes. Absolutely!
100%.
Yes!!!
@@houseofsledge6891 I'm anxious for "The Inner Light" reaction.
I was certainly waiting for it. Feeling underwhelmed now but I suppose that's normal.
As a Scotsman, I had the opposite reaction to Scotty's bagpipes than these guys did. They broke me. They totally broke me.
Totally agree.
I’m from Atlanta GA and they broke me too. Amazing Grace on bagpipes is always heart wrenching.
For real the bagpipes break my heart here
As an American, I don't understand why people think bagpipes are annoying or silly. In fact, they're a downright feat of musical engineering.
Fully agreed. For anyone that doubts the full impact of this instrument, just listen to the soundtrack during the final charge of Gurney and the Atreides soldiers during the sneak attack in the new Dune movie... simply stunning.
Spock fixing his uniform just before talking with Kirk at the end gets me every time. This final moment of dignity before saying goodbye to his friend. "I have been, and always shall be, your friend."
Spock fixing his uniform wasn't in the script, Leonard Nimoy came up with that on the spot.
Some people in the theater (when I saw it first-run) actually laughed at that moment....this was at The Chinese Theater in Hollywood (!)
It's a subtle moment, but one that lives in my memory as well.
Leonard Nimoy was always intensely protective of the character of Spock. His mastery of personal moments like that speaks to the great deal of thought that Nimoy has always put into realizing that person on screen. Not only must Spock be in intense pain, blind, and dying - but he's _still_ using immense effort to suppress his emotions and present a dignified, controlled appearance in front of his crew, his commander, and his friends.
Doing an early version of The Picard Maneuver... yes. That always gets me; just a lovely touch and slightly funny even as it's poignant and sad.
Fixing his uniform, attempting to end his life with the dignity befitting a Star Fleet legend and hitting his face on the glass…………..that gets me every time.
And of course Shatner;
“His was the m’ost………..human”
I’d like to thank the academy.
Ricardo Montalban gives the most epic, legendary performance as Khan here. I love this film for so many reasons, but every time I marvel at how much he just elevates the role to one of the best movie antagonists of all time.
0:01
The reason Montalban was so ripped was his back injury. He suffered a back injury years before on a film set. He kept in such great shape to compensate for his weak back. Ultimately he wound up in a wheelchair for the last part of his life.
Whats more amazing is that he and Shatner's Kirk never meet face to face. I'm having a hard time recalling any other movie where the protagonist and antagonist never share the same space but you'd swear they had been later.
I felt like basically everybody gave an epic performance, the most especially Ricardo, of course.
Ricardo Montalban was a great actor in every performance he gave his entire life. But Star Trek II propelled him into immortality. Just the best performance of his life and taking into account he wasn't even on the same set and same scene as Shatner the entire movie is nothing short of astounding.
Spock's death killed everyone in the theater. The whole packed house left the movie house -- sobbing --. Nimoy was very clear that he never wanted to play Spock again. It was the time in his life when he wrote his first autobiography entitled "I AM NOT SPOCK". It was only once he saw just how absolutely devastated the cinematic death of his character had left even casual fans that Nimoy re-evaluated his relationship to the role and the fandom, and then issued a follow-up autobiography titled "I AM SPOCK".
He later said that he was completely misunderstood about the name of his biography. He didn't hate Spock, he loved that part of himself and was very grateful for it. He wanted to say that he wasn't just Spock, but also a human actor named L. Nimoy. For actors who love their job precisely because of the opportunity to slip into other roles, it is often very difficult to limit yourself to just one role and become famous. Of course it's a financial blessing, but artistically it's a curse.
I vaguely remember the Trek novelist Peter David (maybe) saying at the time that Nimoy should have written a third memoir called "Oh hell I admit it, I'm Spock, for four and a half million dollars, I'll be Carmen Miranda." 🤣
I've seen this movie dozens of times, and since the first time I saw this I was in tears, still do everytime this scene comes up, even after all the times I watched it.
@ursus3295 Thank you for pointing that out! You are right. I read I Am Not Spock the year it came out, and it's exactly what you described!
Nimoy had no idea … the reactions from audience and long-time fans (depression).
I like the fact that Khan and Kirk never met face to face, rather than forcing a scene. It felt... authentic.
Khan did nothing but lift weights and read revenge novels those years. Kirk drank Romulan ale and got a pair of bifocals. How you gonna write a compelling fight around that?
And as far as character study, Khan has enough going on with intellect vs revenge. No need to throw 'I will out testosteronize you with my muskles' into that.
I find it more compelling as a captain vs captain in a space naval battle rather than a one on one duel/brawl. It is a very effective and clever decision. Kirk couldn't hope to match Kahn in one on one combat, and Khan's hubris brings him to believe he is a better ship commander despite it being Kirk's advantage. So many correct decisions were made with this film all the way around. One of the plus sides of having to overcome a restricted budget.
@@bucky5869Yes. This is how it would ACTUALLY go in life. Navy captains don't leave their warships to meet 1 v 1 to do a fist fight to determine the outcome! WTF have the warship at all then?
Every film that does that is just stupi*.
Its sad they really don't get Star Trek at all. If they did they'd revel in glory with this decision. Not throw a fit about it.
They really didn't meet. Their scenes dialogue were done with other actors.
Not sure which cut you're watching, but there's a cut that reveals early on why Scotty was so emotional at that trainee's death- it was his own nephew. The novelization takes it a step further and says Scotty was harder on him than all the other cadets BECAUSE it was his nephew, and that's why the kid stayed at his post.
We watched the theatrical version as decided by our Patrons
The trainee was also played by Ike Eisenmann who happen to play Tony in Escape From Which Mountain. I remembered him from that because when I first watched Khan in theaters, I remembered my age appropriate movie crush from back in the day and it broke my childhood, now adult, heart a little bit.
@@targetaudience the young man on Khan’s bridge who told him to just leave with Genesis was Khan’s son with MacGuyver. When he died, Khan just gave up and concocted his suicide plan as long as it would also kill Kirk, as Khan had lost everything at that point.
Ugh, they steered you wrong. Directors Cut is better.
@@brettharris7696No way. It’s not even really a director’s cut. It’s the ABC TV version from the 80s that shoved in a bunch of useless scenes that slow the pace of the film.
Fun fact: When Kirk's voice cracks at Spock's funeral, that wasn't just acting. Shatner really was moved by the scene and his voice caught there. They left it in. It was the perfect touch.
I had wondered about that! It sounded so authentic..
Regardless of what they say. I don't think there was animosity between them.
@@jakerazmataz852 I don't believe it was so much animosity as it was professional rivalry as actors. Even so, they were close till the end of Nimoy's life, but that was more-or-less two friends losing contact, which happens.
@@darthroden Yup, I remember people making a stink about Shatner not going to his funeral or something. He had prior engagements I believe.
Fascinating!
There's a joke, I think made by Walter Koenig, that the reason Khan remembers him despite us never seeing him in the episode, is that Khan needed to use the restroom at some point before leaving the ship but Checkov on the lower decks was using it so Khan swore vengeance!
Not only that, but Chekov had used all the toilet paper too
@@s.henrlllpoklookout5069 Of course Khan was wrong to blame Chekov, there was no toilet paper, he just needed to use the 3 sea shells.
In the novel chekov states he was on the night shift in space seed and he's one of the group that takes khan to the planet.
There ya go!👌
Koenig did admit, years after the fact, that he knew damn well Chekov never met Khan. But he kept his mouth shut about it lest the juicy part he played in it would go over to Sulu.
Nimoy appeared on a British chat show prior to the release of Search for Spock and was asked if he appeared in the movie. He replied, it'd be a huge let-down if, at the end of the movie, Kirk just turned to camera and said "Well, we didn't find him."
Lol!
Nah, that could set up "Star Trek IV: Another Search for Spock"
And "Star Trek V: The Continuing Search for Spock"
"Star Trek VI: I'm Starting to Wonder if Spock is Even Out Here, Honestly"
Not to mention "Star Trek VII: Perhaps Spock Just Doesn't Want to Be Found?"
And on we go…
@@Jessica_Roth that is the best stuff I've read in YT comments in months! 🤣
@@Jessica_Roth
Star Trek VIII: He's behind you!
Star Trek IX: Oh no he's not!
Star Trek X: Oh yes he is!
@@malcolmrowe9003Lol!
The "Genesis Device" video is the first FULLY CGI Rendered sequence in movie history!
Made by Pixar, no less, IIRC
Yes. STAR WARS (1977) Death Star (vector graphics) was created by University of Illinois - Chicago ,
which was a First for film usage.
Funny, when you consider for 2001 film (1968) Univ. of Illinois Champaign-Urbana created HAL 9000.
When Harve Bennett was interviewed for the job of producer, he was asked "Can you make a movie for less than $44 million?" He replied "I can make FIVE movies for that ". Some of the sets are reworked from TMP, but every penny of that budget is up on the screen. The training sequence was made to offset the spoiler of Spock's death that has been leaked months before. This movie, more than TMP IMHO, ushered in the next chapter of Star Trek.
They reused the shots of the Enterprise leaving Dry Dock from TMP.
That’s why the Enterprise has that pearlescent paint job in Dry Dock, but then switches to the matte white paint job in every other shot of the movie. It’s because ILM did the effects work for TWOK and had to spray a matte white paint over the studio model, so it would work with their blue screen technique. The TMP pearlescent reflective paint would’ve caused problems.
The bridge of the Reliant and the Enterprise are the same. The walls were modular, they rearrange the order.
@@DeltaAssaultGamingI like to just think that it's the spacedock lights that somehow make it look like that. 😊
The Production Designer liked the look of some protective Foam packaging he saw, so they made multiple molds of the Foam, and thus created Wall Panels fof the Enterprise and for other Interior sets.
Spock’s death was a MASSIVE event at the time. Remember, no internet or social media so they were able to keep it under wraps. When the rumor started leaking out they added the beginning scene with his “death” to sort of a red herring throw people off. It was just stunning but Nimoy didn’t want to play Spock anymore but he changed his mind during the making of this movie. Reportedly, much of the crew was crying during Spock’s death scene.
William Shatner's voice cracking during the funeral gets me every time.
Spock's "solution" to the no win situation is such a great moment. Kirk has spent his career able to trick, gimmick and b.s. his way out of every situation, but Spock shows that sometimes the only solution is to sacrifice your own life, manhandle a starship engine back into functioning and save your ship and its crew.
Yes! It is the theme of the film, its an indictment of Kirk dodging the no win in the test back in his academy days. Spock talks the talk and walks the walk
Up to a point. Kirk did have his shlt kicked out of him from time to time. Edith Keeler as exhibit A.
The same way peter Kirk defeated the Maru in the expanded lore :)
In the end of the grand scheme of things, Spock was the only one to ever beat The No Win Scenario. He sacrificed for the win, died, came back to life, became an ambassador, and even traveled to another time-line and helped his planet relocate. That's a life no one can really argue that Spock lived of full and meaningful life.
In principle I always thought that since Captain Spock defeated this test with his life and was brought back. How should Starfleet reward him? Admiralty should've been next. I don't think Shatner would have it. Lol!
Ricardo Montalban was on a break from his television show Fantasy Island so they really only had him for about 2 weeks. So the script was written around his availability that's why he has no scenes directly with the rest of the cast. In addition to that Nicholas Meyer the writer-director really wanted to do a submarine style nautical battle. So that's why we have the final confrontation that we do.
He filmed his scenes completely separate and ahead of time and they were then inserted into the movie
Khan support actors that were around him were actors from TV shows.
The submarine style battle was clearly inspired by the TOS episode "Balance of Terror."
Harkens back to "The Enemy Below" -- Robert Mitchum and Curt Jurgens.
Leonard Nimoy's "Space, the final frontier..." at the end gives me goosebumps every time
I always cry several times in this film but Nimoy's reading there of those lines always makes me just weep.
“Who’s been holding up the damn elevator?” Best line indeed, cutting straight through that weird tension between Kirk and Saavik.
A weird tension indeed! Up to that point, Kirk had almost never said "no" to a pretty lady who made him an offer, and it seems to him that Saavik's aware of his reputation and prepared to exploit it.
The banter between Kirk and McCoy in the "elevator" is great, we don't get stuff like that anymore....
Even though I've probably seen this film 20 times, I still get tears in my eyes at the end!
Same here and we both know it isn't a real death. It's a great scene.
Every time.
I’ve seen it likely close to that and got to see it in theaters for the first time. Movie came out the year I was born. I freaking cried, for the first time. As we’re people of all ages in that theater.
I’ve seen it likely close to that and got to see it in theaters for the first time. Movie came out the year I was born. I freaking cried, for the first time. As we’re people of all ages in that theater.
Every. Time.
I saw this in theaters when it first came out. When Kirk's voice breaks during the eulogy, EVERYONE in the theatre I was in started crying. I was sitting in front of a row of women, and all of them were weeping. Even my own dad, who was a bit of a critic of Shatner's acting (my dad thought Shatner was the biggest ham ever), said that this was some fantastic acting.
I think what the film is most successful at is making all the human interactions finally feel deep, real and authentic. You actually believe these people are old comrades, friends, lovers, enemies, and it makes the universe feel more real than ever. The grittier effects and make-up add to this of course. I just love it.
The reason they keep coming back to the Kobayashi Maru is because the Kobayashi Maru is the entire theme of the movie. The point is how do you deal with the no win situation. How do you deal with death. As Kirk says, "It's a test of character."
You're absolutely right in saying that Nimoy only agreed to do this film if they killed his character off, much like Harrison Ford did with Han Solo. But while they were making the movie, Nimoy had such a good time and could tell it was going to be good, so he asked for some loopholes being written in to the plot that might allow him to come back, which they did on the fly. But when this movie came out, there was no ST III, there was no Spock, Nimoy was done. And we all were devastated.
Not quite correct they they tried get him to appear and to convince him they said what if we gave you a great death secne? Leonard regretted killing him off after how well the film went and felt.
That’s because Nimoy hated making The Motion Picture. In his own words:
“It’s a nightmare. It’s a horror. And it was the making that first movie. Was very very dispiriting. Very depressing. Had a bad script. Bad script. That just never worked. It was always a struggle to try to figure out how to bring some life to this project. And we did our best. But I never… the pendulum swung completely when that first movie came along, from being an actor and character-oriented Star Trek to an effects-oriented Star Trek.
“And the feeling was, oh we didn’t have the money before, now we’ve got the money, we’ve gotta give them a big effects movie, so it was all about the ship the ship the ship, and this effect and that effect, and we’re going through this thing and now we’re going through that thing. Nothing about the characters. So it was frustrating and depressing and very painful.
“Right down to the last day! Right down to the last day of shooting, we tried desperately to inject. and occasionally they’d say, okay we’ll shoot a little. Let you come up with an idea. Then they’d cut it out of the movie.
“The last day we’re on the bridge shooting the final scene of the movie, we’re all saying goodbye to each other, we’ve all come back supposedly for this mission and now we’re going back to our homes, and so forth. And Kirk goes around to the various characters and says: ‘Okay Dr McCoy, we’re going to take you back,’ he was coming out of retirement or something, ‘we’re going to take you back and go to Georgia.’ And McCoy says, ‘I think I’m here, I’ll stay.’
“And he came to me and says, ‘Spock we’ll have you back on Vulcan in a day or two.’ And I’m supposed to say, ‘Fine Captain, I think I’ll stay as well,’ or something. And I thought, let’s go for some fun here? We’ve been so somber this entire movie. There’s been no humor, no charm. Which Star Trek was full of! Charm and humor! Full of it!
“So the final rehearsal, when he came to me and McCoy had just said he was going to stay on the ship, I said ‘Captain, if Dr McCoy is to stay here, my presence here will be essential.’ Got a big laugh out of the whole crew. Big laugh.
“And then I saw a huddle with the bosses, off camera. And Bob Wise, bless him, who was directing the movie and really himself had said many times he didn’t have a grasp of Star Trek, came to me and he said, well the feeling is it’s not the right tone to end the movie, which should be a little bit more serious.
“And okay. It was my gift to you. You don’t want it, fine, I’ll take it back. Hehe. They wouldn’t let me do it. And that’s an example of the kind of frustration that we had on the movie.”
Originally, the movie did not have the last shot of the casket/torpedo on Genesis, or Nimoy's closing narration. The preview audience was devastated. That, plus Nimoy's enjoyment of the shoot and wish to continue, convinced Harve Bennett to put in those last two elements for the release version. It left the fans with hope for the future and worked well, even though Nicholas Meyer objected to it, at the time.
I see what you did there...
@@DeltaAssaultGaming Man, scenes like that would have helped TMP so much. Every time I've watched that movie I just completely zone out while they're going through the cloud. There's just... nothing. Effects and people looking at effects. There's a handful of decent scenes, but mostly it's just "The Changeling" (Nomad) stretched to 2 hours, but with no character banter and lots of exterior shots.
Fun Fact: In the novelization, Saavik was half-Vulcan / half-Romulan. It's kind of funny that you asked if she was Romulan when she first showed up.
Which is like being half Vulcan and half Vulcan. It makes no sense and i'm glad they cut that. Romulans are Vulcans, they're an offshoot from the time of Surak.
@@TriarchVisgroup It's not exactly, though. Romulans don't suppress their emotions. And Vulcans have done that for so long that it's partly genetic. (Romulans also lack most of the Vulcan telepathic abilities, as those derive largely from the emotional suppression... Vulcans have better control over their own minds.)
So being a half-Vulcan/half-Romulan is much more closer to Spock's half-Vulcan/half-Human. It serves to better explain why Saavik isn't as stoic as most Vulcans. She smiles, she swears, she cries. (They dropped this aspect in the following movies when they recast her, and she acts like a full-blood Vulcan.)
The Wrath of Khan... is a dish best served cold!
Merritt Butrick (Dr. David Marcus) was 23 years old in 1982.
Assuming the same age for David Marcus, he would have been 5 or 6 at the time of the episode "Where No Man Has Gone Before" in which Gary Mitchell mentioned setting Kirk with "that blonde Lab technician" that Kirk "almost married". Many Trekkers consider that blonde lab tech to be Carol Marcus.
You watched them in the correct order and it payed off. Kudos.
The novelization gives some more backstory. The cadet that Scotty brings to the bridge is his nephew. But, more interesting, is Saavik’s backstory. She is a Vulcan Romulan hybrid, whom Spock rescued from a Romulan prison planet, and she became his protege. ( My fan theory, since disproven by subsequent movies, was she was Spock’s daughter, by the Romulan Captain in ‘The Enterprise Incident.’ )
Also, the longer cuts of the movie do say it's Scotty's nephew, too. I'm pretty sure, too, that the novel includes some conversations between Saavik and David, which he is sort of referring back to when he's talking with Kirk at the end.
Saavik's background is mentioned in a deleted scene: th-cam.com/video/at7wO7P9fVM/w-d-xo.html
@@joeconcepts5552 Spoiler Alert! In the novelization of the next movie it is shown that David and Saavik become lovers. This is not even implied in the movie. In the 4th movie it is a fan theory that Saavik stays on Vulcan because she is pregnant. Thus her child is Kirk’s grandchild. If my fan theory were at all possible, it would be Kirk’s and Spock’s grandchild. Of course, my fan theory is wrong There is an additional fan theory: Not only is she pregnant, but it is the young, regenerated Spock’s child.
@@RicktheCrofter The original script for "The One With the Whales" had Saavik staying behind on Vulcan because she was pregnant with Spocks child from the Pon Farr incident on the Genesis planet. The reference to her being pregnant was cut from the movie however.
@@Raja1938 I personally thank you, it explains a lot on Saavik.
The way that this movie holds up over time is just incredible...it is so good on so many levels and in so many ways.💯👍
And a big part of it for me is the music, so...
R.I.P. James Horner 😢
The musical score slaps and is good just for a listen sometime if you want to hear something epic, adventurous, and stirring.
Agreed. They should have stopped with this film and never brought Spock back.
@@trhansen3244I, am hesitant to agree, as this is perhaps the One instance where bringing back a dead character has been appropriately set up in the plot…
But mostly, it is because I love Undiscovered Country.
I would argue that the score elevates this film to greatness. It's so good that it's almost as if the score is a character itself.
When Kirk makes his entrance and both of you guys were like, "Yeah, that's what we're talking about (or something like it)!" was awesome.
I always aim to hold a hard back classic under my arm and grasp a belt buckle. That’s the hero pose
One of my favorites of the movies. The emotional punch of losing Spock was so intense. Remember, when we saw this in theaters there was no next movie. So we really were shocked.
Kirk's voice breaking at the funeral was my cue for the waterworks.
Chekov was probably on The Enterprise during Space Seed. He just hadn't been promoted to the bridge crew yet.
This is what I had always figured...he was on the ship, just not important enough to get any mentions in the Ship's Log...or the historical documents. LOL
Indeed. In fact, Sulu isn't in the episode either. It is also worth noting that Chekov was in "Catspaw" which has an earlier stardate than Space seed. So Chekov was definitely assigned to the Enterprise at that point. I have always just accepted that neither were on duty when the events of Space Seed happened.
He was on 3rd shift
@@iKvetch558 Historical documents! ; )
"Surely you don't think Gilligan's Island.."
"Those poor people."
That was the official story to cover up Director Nicholas Meyer's goof up. Meyer had never seen the TV series and only watched episodes when he was assigned to direct, and decided to use Space Seed as a back story for the next movie. Roddenberry had nothing to do with this movie, as for the disappoined response to The Motion Picture, or he might have caught that.
For me, this is a "no-notes" movie. The story, characters, direction, cinematography, effects, sets, costumes, etc. are all spot on. The movie works as both a Star Fleet mission story and a character-driven story. I've seen it many times and still laugh, cry, and cheer at all the same points. I can understand the disappointment in not having Kirk and Kahn physically together in the same space, but I like the decision to make the final confrontation a battle of ships. Star Fleet is after all the "space navy" and not the "space army." And, it also plays to Kirk's strengths as the captain of a ship. I also like the introduction of Kirk's son as part of the character's arc. He's growing older and both looking ahead to what he still wants to do as well as looking back at what he gave up.
The Khan and Kirk being separated the entire time echoes back to this movie not only being a sequel to "Space Seed" but it's also heavily inspired by "Balance of Terror", a fan favorite TOS episode that I recall you didn't think was that great.
So makes sense that that bothered you in this movie.
For me, though, this is a near perfect film. I love it!
>> For me, though, this is a near perfect film.
I seriously rank this in my top ten films of all time, period.
Curiosly, they seems to have problems with many great installments of the show. Another one is "The Doomsday Machine". It was a great surprise that they actually like "The Moton Picture".
@@andreabindolini7452 Who is "they"?
@@maxshenkwrites the two reactors
As you noticed, as did many fans at the time this movie was released, Chekov wasn't in the first season when "Space Seed" takes place so, how could he have met Khan? Walter Koenig used to like to tell a story to explain this discrepancy. He'd say that Chekov _was_ on the Enterprise at the time but, as a low ranking ensign, he was relegated to cleaning the latrines. Well, Khan developed a bad case of "Montezuma's Revenge" and one time when he was rushing to the toilet he literally ran into Chekov causing him to "soil himself" before he could get there. Khan's response? "I'll never forget your face!".
chekov was to fill in for sulu when George Takei's role in The Green Berets (1968) as Captain Nim, a South Vietnamese Army officer alongside John Wayne's character, took him away from Star Trek filming and he only appeared in half the episodes of that season. Walter Koenig as Pavel Chekov substituted for him in the other episodes. When Takei returned, the two men had to share a dressing room and a single episode script. Takei admitted in an interview that he initially felt threatened by Koenig's presence, but later grew to be friends with him as the image of the officers sharing the ship's helm panel side-by-side became iconic
This set the standard for Trek, they’ve been chasing that high ever since.
I’ll never forget leaving the theater and saying “no way, they didn’t just kill Spock”.
To see two big tough lads like you guys tear up and be so like choked up to the point of crying as we all are when we watch Spocks death and funeral scene shows exactly how well it was done. Excellent point re Bones, it would have been good to have seen him shed a tear. Good job on this one boys, as always.
There'll be a few tears in the next one, too.
This story is basically Moby Dick; here’s a quote from the novel and now in this film:”He tasks me. He tasks me and I shall have him. I’ll chase him round the moons of Nibia and round the Antares maelstrom and round perdition’s flames before I give him up”
Yep. Obsession is a big theme of the movie.
and his dying words were from Moby Dick too.
Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering whale; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell’s heart I stab at thee; for hate’s sake I spit my last breath at thee. Sink all coffins and all hearses to one common pool! and since neither can be mine, let me then tow to pieces, while still chasing thee, though tied to thee, thou damned whale! Thus, I give up the spear!
In point of fact, the plot can be described as a duel between _two_ classic novels - Melville's *Moby Dick,* of course (which can be glimpsed on the bookshelf on Ceti Alpha V), and Dickens's *A Tale of Two Cities,* an antique copy of which Spock presented to Kirk in the beginning for his birthday. Though neither book is directly referred to in the film, each of the two opposing commanders speaks lines therefrom (it's interesting to note also, that Khan's quotes were made during the chase, where Kirk only referenced the other before and after the entire affair). 🤓
@@goldenager59 But what about Khan's copy of Statute Regulating?? It's so critical to his character arc ;)
@@Swiftbow
By heavens...do you know, in all the years since I first saw the film, it's never even _occurred_ to me to take that vital plot point into consideration! 😮😲
😆 😉
The battle sequence between Khan and Kirk is truly enthralling. I’m not talking the CGI, although that was great, I’m talking the writing. The back and forth, ebb and flow, call and answer between them throughout is masterclass and just has you captivated on what’s gonna happen next.
That’s not CGI. The only real CGI in the movie is the Genesis Effect in the briefing film.
Which was done by a little known company, called Pixar
No CGI, they were scale models and pyrotechnics. The Genesis planet demo sequence was however one of the first instances of computer graphics in a movie, and at the time was ground-breaking. Director Nic Meyer mentions in the DVD audio commentary that when they (he and crew) all saw it for the first time “it was all *gasps* ! 😮
I saw this film opening weekend. I can tell you we were all shocked at the ending. My mother, a lifelong Trek fan, was beside herself with grief.
I saw all of the original cast films in the cinema other than TMP, mostly the opening weekend...not sure if I watched WOK opening weekend...but I do remember how Spock's death really affected me as he's my favorite of the Big 3 but I fully understand that all 3 have to be there for the conflict to work. Ego, Id and Super Ego in character form.
Same, I remember seeing my mom weeping, she was so unexpectedly gut-punched by it.
Allow me to share a somewhat long winded memory.
At the close of 1982, my cousin Dave passed away. Our last exchange was at the end of a memorial party in honor of our grandfather. As I was about to leave, Dave had to ask me a question.
"Do you remember all of the trivia questions we answered over the phone?"
When we were in high school, he was staying at my house for summer vacation and we spent a lot of time listening to the radio. A premiere of Star Trek II was coming to our small town and they were giving tickets to the first caller who could correctly answer various questions about Star Trek. We won a total of four tickets.
It was, we were told, the world premiere of the movie. It was released in my small town before it was released in the big cities. We took my mom and my sister.
The theater was filled with nothing but die hard Star Trek fans. We all cheered when Kirk's crew lowered the shields on Khan's ship.
And, of course, completely silent during the now famous final scenes.
Possibly the best movie going experience I ever had.
Dave and I both heard rumors that Spock would die. Neither of us told the other. We wanted it to be a surprise.
As I left the party, I plumbed my memory for answers.
"Who played Spock?" Everyone at the party knew that one. You didn't even have to be a Trekkie to know that one.
"What was the name of Spock's father?" They were a little more impressed with that one.
"What was the name of Spock's mother?" Yeah, I guess the radio station was lacking in imagination.
But we couldn't think of the 4th question we answered. Maybe I will never know. It might be lost forever.
Kirks pilot episode mentions a “blonde lab technician” that Gary Mitchell had set Kirk up with, and Kirk says he nearly married her. That was decided to be a Carol Marcus reference when breaking the story for this movie. Looking forward to the next few film reviews! Keep up the great work.
Did you guys know that Khan's last words are the Last words of Capt Abe of Moby Dick, as He plunges the whale killing lance into Moby Dick's backside! Khan was reading Moby Dick for the last 15 years stranded on that desolate planet! So as he went insane he kind of likend himself to Capt Abe!
Watching you guys vocalize every thought I had when seeing this in the theater in ‘82 was absolutely wonderful.
How we got here: The first ST movie made money, but had gotten mixed reaction, and Paramount felt that if there were to be sequals, new blood was needed. So Gene Roddenberry was kicked upstaries to the role of 'Creative Consultant'. Enter Harve Bennett, who had TV and Movie experience, but had never seen Star Trek. So to get a feel for the show, and possible story ideas, he grabbed some film prints, snacks and friends, and took to one of the screening rooms for some 1980 style binge watching. Got to 'Space Seed'; regognized Ricardo Montalban, and really liked his character. And when the episode ends the way it did and the line about 'the seeds you have planted today', Bennett said, "That's my movie!" Montalbon was still very much involved in the TV series 'Fantasy Island' when the movie was filmed, so yes he had a very limited shooting schedule. He took the role, because when he wasn't on screen, they were still talking about him.
How about Shatner's eulogy delivery? Man, I can't think of another scene from any other movie that gets me teared up as quickly 😮
I love this move so much because it is more than just a space shoot em up. It was a movie about aging and the regrets that come with it. The older I get the more powerful this movie becomes for me. The theme of the roads not taken and the poor thoughtless decisions made in youth biting one in the ass later in life ring true. Khan is bitter and vengeful as his life led him to a wasteland and loss of his loved ones. He tried to conquer a world and then when losing fled to space. He then made the same mistakenon the Enterprise trying to conquer it. That led him to his exile again and another attempt to conquer a doomed world. Kirk is isolated and unfufilled despite an exemplary carrer. He is literaly surrounded by the past in his home. All of his choices and rule bending brought him to almost complete defeat. You mentioned how Khan never seemed to win at any point... the same goes for Kirk. He temprarily tricks his way out of situations he put himself in by poor choices but it is Spocks sacrifice that allows him to "win". And that Sacrifice was a far greater loss to Kirk than merely losing a battle.
>> The older I get the more powerful this movie becomes for me.
Absolutely. I enjoyed it on one level at age 19 when it came out, and appreciate it on a much deeper level now at age 59.
If you go back and look at the second pilot, Gary Mitchell actually says something to Kirk that could tie into this movie. He talked about the little blonde lab tech that he pointed at Kirk. And Kirk is like I almost married her!
That was fanon for a long time. It is beta canon now, since a few novel writers have incorporated it as fact in their stories.
And as I mentioned above in another comment, the STRANGE NEW WORLDS Kirk mentions a pregnant Carol Marcus in an episode this past season.
Honestly, a lot of people will say to watch Space Seed and Wrath as a double-bill, but IMO watching Wrath of Khan a moderate amount of time after Space Seed is the optimal experience. It helps to have gotten slightly fuzzy on the exact details of the episode so you don't pick up so much on the small and irrelevant inconsistencies. Watching the TV series and then going on to the movies puts it at the ideal point.
It made me feel all warm and fuzzy every time you guys would point at the screen or your eyes would pop as you yelled, "Oohhh!"
Initially, *Leonard Nimoy* had some issues with *Spock* being so tied his identity in his post TV series years. He even resented it to a degree. Going so far as to writing a book called, _"I Am Not Spock!"_
So, when it came to playing *Spock* _again_ for a second film, he negotiated a deal where he did indeed come back for the film, but his character must die.
He eventually came to terms with his *Spock* character, as he then wrote a follow up in 1995 called, _"I Am Spock!"_ This newfound appreciatioin for *Spock* really came through over the following films and TV shows. 🖖
Ricardo Montalban starred in Fantasy Island at the time, and they had to shoot Star Trek around his schedule. He and Shatner filmed their scenes at entirely different times. That is why they were never in any scenes together. In fact, the bridges for both the Enterprise and Reliant were the same set. They just dressed it differently for as needed for each crew.
Saw it in the theater three times when it came out. Fantastic on a big screen. The whole audience was sobbing during Spocks death scene. This film saved the movie franchise.
Weeeeeeeeell, this is what Bennet and Meyer kept repeating in interviews at the time. Self-agrandizement, big time. I highly doubt that the franchise would have ended had this film never been made.
De Kelley was great as Bones in the series but for me he really shines in the films. This film is huge pop culture wise but for me number 6 is the best Star Trek film, followed by 4.
I hate going along with the trope that the even numbered TREK movies are the best, but of the original movies, yes, 2-4-6 are the peaks and 1-3-5 are the valleys. I still hold ST2 as the best of ALL the Trek movies, but UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY is a close second, with FIRST CONTACT third.
Yes! Undiscovered Country is my favorite, and arguably the best (at least the best-produced one). It’s a spiritual sequel to II
@@maxshenkwrites In some ways, I feel like Star Trek 3 is slept on. It doesn't reach the heights of 2-4-6, but the villain was great on screen, and the movie was great setup for the plots in 4 and 6.
I totally agree, the 6’th film is probably my favorite now. I always watched this with my dad growing up and with my first pay check, I took my dad to watch “The Undiscovered Country”. It’s one of my best memories.
I like that Kirk and Khan didn’t meet face to face, it sets it apart from every other story. The fact they’re on different ships gives that Horatio Hornblower thing with ship battles on the high seas.
I bawled hysterically at this movie.
Right @13:33 when Scotty says "He stayed at his post when the others ran." - That line of dialog was actually from a historic WWI obituary after The Battle of Jutland and refers to Jhon Travers Cornwell who stayed at his post, with dead sailors all around him, waiting for further orders from the captain.
The next four movies each give the secondary characters their own moments to shine, even if it's not anything substantial.
In the novel as well as the extended version of the film, it's established that the cadet Scotty carried to the bridge was his nephew. Which explains Scotties reaction.
To answer your question regarding Khan and Checkov knowing each other, they apparently ret-Khan'd it in the novel that Checkov was on the ship, but not bridge crew during Space Seed.
33:12 to answer your question about why Ricardo Montalbán and William Shatner are not on the screen together...
In the original screenplay they had a fight on Rigal 4. But Ricardo Montalbán had a huge hit television series (fantasy Island) that made it impossible to do that kind of scene.
So, to help with his schedule, and to save money, they redesigned the Enterprise bridge set to look like a different bridge by rearranging the walls. Then they shot all of the Enterprise bridge first then the reliant bridge second. This allowed Ricardo montalban to play his role as Kahn then return in time for the next season of Fantasy Island.
Surprised you guys didn't check out the extended version which I thought was pretty common now. Scotty talking about his nephew is a nice character moment.
Kirks son didn't bother me much. Kirk would have been about 30 when David was born and almost ready to take on the Enterprise. No doubt Carol didn't really give him any ibfo on their son,maybe a quick message telling him to stay away or something and Kirk probably never saw him. The scene with David and Kirk at the end was really touching and it all goes towards Kirks story of having to deal with things changing. It also adds to the next film. And on first watching I was a bit disappointed that Kirk and Kahn didn't meet face to face. But after realizing that it was really a story about one man dealing with mid life crisis and another who couldn't get past his obsession that way they set things up for them to encounter one another again didn't bother me. After all Khan needs a way to leave his planet,thus the Reliant. But why is the Reliant there? Genesis. Once Kahn has the ship then things just fall into place. He attacks,of course. Kirk outwits him and strikes back. After that it just wouldn't have made as much sense if they did meet. Kirks real enemy here was simply having to deal with life which was beyond his control even though he strived to be in control. It all works well. You get a kind of story where they meet with Into Darkness and it's incredibly dumb.
A little bit of trivia. When Harve Bennett approved the design for the Reliant, he actually looked at it upside down and approved it. That's why the nacelles are below the saucer.
...KHANNNNNNN!!!!
Perhaps one of the greatest pieces of art ever put to celluloid, and after so many decades it still hits at every moment as the first time I saw it.
Glad you lads got the chance to experience it.
Not only a great Star Trek movie just a great movie!, the undiscovered country is also great
Director Nicholas Meyer replied that even in his sixties Montalbán, who had a vigorous training regimen, was "one strong cookie", and that his real chest was seen on film. Khan's costume was specifically designed to display Montalbán's physique. Montalbán agreed to take the role for a significant pay cut, since by his own admission, he relished reprising the role, and his only regret was that he and William Shatner never interacted - the characters never meet face to face, except through video communication - as their scenes were filmed several months apart in order to accommodate Montalbán's schedule for Fantasy Island
You got it exactly right - Nimoy had such an unenjoyable time during the making of TMP he had no intention of returning to the Star Trek franchise. Harve Bennett, who was given the producing duties for the sequel but had to use Paramount's television division to make this film (one of the consequences of the vastly reduced budget) approached Nimoy with an offer: Come back for Star Trek II and we'll give Spock the most dramatic death scene you can think of! Nimoy agreed, anticipating it would be his final appearance in Star Trek.
Leaks of the script and Spock's eventual death made it out to the fan communities early during production, causing an intense uproar. As a result, the script was revised, adding the simulator scene and Spock's apparent death within the first five minutes of the film in the hopes it would throw off the fans and make them believe it was all a joke and that Spock would survive the film. In the original script, Spock would have been killed during Khan's initial attack on the Enterprise. The revision moved it to the end of the film, saving the ship.
Part of what allowed this movie to be completed on a much smaller budget was almost all the sets they needed already existed. One reason the TMP budget was so high is Paramount rolled the costs associated with developing what was supposed to be the second TV series (Phase II) - building sets, creating props and costumes, writing scripts - into the film's budget. The decision to leave the sets standing in the Paramount sound stages after TMP was completed was fortunate. All the existing TMP sets like the bridge, sickbay, engineering, corridors, and crew quarters were redressed - in the case of the bridge the set was cut into 'pie slices' so sections could be moved around, allowing easier filming inside the set and easy re-dress to appear as the bridge of the Reliant. They would go on to become the longest standing sets in Hollywood - first built for Phase II in 1977, modified for TMP in 1978, refurbished and used for the films Star Trek II through Star Trek IV, modified to become sets for the Enterprise-D in The Next Generation, and elements of the original standing sets would go on to appear as parts of USS Voyager in Star Trek: Voyager. The original sets would finally be dismantled and replaced by the sets for the Enterprise NX-01 of Star Trek: Enterprise in 2001.
The character of Saavik was originally intended to be a half-Vulcan/half-Romulan character that Spock had rescued from a failed Romulan colony sometime around the first season of the Original Series and who was raised by Spock's parents Sarek and Amanda, which is why Kirsty Alley portrayed her as a bit more emotional and strong-headed than the typical Vulcan. Unfortunately, all mention of Saavik's duel-heritage was edited out of the film (and subsequent re-edited releases) so as far as recognized by canon Saavik is a full-Vulcan. She would be played as such when re-cast with Robin Curtis in the sequels.
The Director's Cut of this film makes it much clearer (by actually stating it outright) that Cadet Peter Preston was Scotty's nephew, his sister's oldest child, which explains the emotion displayed by Scotty at the cadet's death.
And yes, it's true Chekov was not in Star Trek's first season when "Space Seed" was produced. Originally it was supposed to be Sulu who was Reliant's first officer (ironically, George Takei wasn't in Space Seed either), but during script revisions the character was swapped with Chekov. It has been accepted by the fandom that Ensign Chekov was indeed aboard the Enterprise during the first season, just not yet posted to a position on the bridge.
One cameo you probably missed was that Reliant's communications officer was Commander Kyle - played once again by John Winston. Lt Kyle was one of the recurring Red Shirts aboard the Enterprise throughout the course of the Original Series (most often as one of the transporter technicians) and first appeared in the episode "Space Seed."
The 'Genesis Film' was ground-breaking CGI at the time. It still stands up surprisingly well.
The spaceships are a representation of Kirk and Kahn. That was the meeting of them. I never really considered the lack of in person fighting as an issue, Kahn is that superior in strength in that way it would be very one sided
I do get wanting them to interact in person, reacting to each other in that way.
There's plenty of interaction between Kirk and Khan. I think it's just the wrestling fan in them that wanted an actual fight. I get the feeling they're going to like ST3 more than this one.
Although Kahn had superior physical strength, Kirk was the superior tactician and had superior martial arts skills, which he demonstrated in defeating Kahn in their first physical fight in Space Seed.
Therefore, the fight between Kahn and Kirk in Space Seed demonstrated that Kahn's superior strength would not make a fight between them "very one sided" as you claim.
Kirk showed Khan that despite his genetically engineered "superior" intellect, that he was not only out of touch but that he was way out of his league!
Considering that this is only fifteen years after the TV series, and his son looks more than 15 years old, Kirk fathered the kid years before becoming captain of the Enterprise.
Without spoiling which one or how it is, there is one more movie in the franchise that could be said to be a sequel to an episode. It's not one of the TOS movies, so it'll be quite a while until you get to it, but I think y'all will appreciate it. I very much look forward to seeing y'all react to the next two movies, as they, along with this movie, act as a Trilogy, with each movie leading directly into the next.
As usual, an excellent reaction, and I can't wait to see the next reaction!
I know which Star Trek episode-movie combination you're referring to. I agree, they will definitely appreciate it.
So they say this is 15 years after the episode "Space Seed."
The original series and Star Trek Continues was a 5 year mission.
The animated series another 5 year mission with a mostly new crew, but the same command staff.
Then the first motion picture occurred and that new crew did another five year mission we never see on screen.
The Enterprise was then made into a training ship for cadets, which is where this movie opens.
Yeah.. I wanted to see a face to face interaction between Kirk and Khan too.. but not sure if they could have pulled it off in a believable way. The space battles between the two were great.. and Kirk yelling KHAAAN!
Also.. Kirk’s son does play off into the next movie, which I believe you have seen now 🙂
The director said he wanted to make this Horatio Hornblower in space. Two captains matching wits in battle. Similar to Balance of Terror. In that episode we had two characters gain respect for each other even though they were never in the same room.
@@richardb6260 he did a fantastic job no doubt!
@@richardb6260 That's an excellent point! IMO, the Kirk's son issue is not really an issue. C'mon the Captain is spreading his seed all over the galaxy, so it's feasible. Besides Carol may have been that "little blond lab technician" that Gary Mitchell aimed at him. Lol!
There was a believable opportunity for Kahn to face Kirk by beaming down to the Genesis lab after Captain Terrell and Chekov failed to kill Kirk, in a sort of "if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself" moment, but I think that having Kahn leave Kirk trapped on the planet as a fitting eye-for-an-eye revenge for Kirk having done that to Kahn was a better choice for the story, especially since it provided another opportunity to show that Kirk had planned a way out of that "no win" scenario as well.
Unfortunately for Kahn, he fell into the same trap as the Bond villains by not just quickly killing the hero as soon and as directly as possible.
@@luminiferous1960 Agreed! Perhaps this was more of a chance to showcase his superior intellect versus an aging Captain now Admiral. Maybe his pride was still damaged from that engine room beatdown he took and didn't want to chance it? Lol!
Supposedly, Saavik was supposed to be half-romulan.
In a deleted scene, Peter Preston was Scotty's nephew. That's why he was so sad about the death of an engineer.
III is easily D Kelley's best performance.
The working title was Vengeance of Khan. Which. Was too close to the working title of Revenge of the Jedi. For the best both titles ended up changing.
So, a common plot hole that gets brought up, which Josh brings up, is that Chekov had yet to show up on Star Trek during Khan's episode of Space Seed, but Scott Mantz over on Enterprise Incidents has a theory/head cannon that fits perfectly in which, if the stardate system that gets used works how he thinks it works, then if you line them up, it shows that Chekov was already aboard the Enterprise during the events of Space Seed, but just wasn't assigned to the bridge yet. Not absolute canon for sticklers, but neat, nonetheless.
Yes! You guys really felt Spock's death and the eulogy Kirk gave for Spock. Loved every moment of this reaction.
P.S.
Scotty always gets me with his bagpipes too!
Apparently, Walter Koenig was responsible for checking the continuity with Space Seed. There was no way he was going to write himself out of the movie.
ST 2 The Wrath of Khan was HUGE when I was kid. I've seen this movie countless times & Spock's death always gets me. It's a treat to see people discovering Star Trek, Star Wars, etc. for the 1st time. You guys (as ST fans) seeing this for the 1st time was great. Can't wait until u get to ST: The Next Generation.
Only two or three more Trek reactions before TNG! (Depending on when they do "The Cage.")
2:25 In the original backstory for Saavik , she was supposed to be half-vulcan, half-romulan (and not having begun proper vulcan mental practices until she was around 6-8 years old), which is why relative to vulcans her emotions/reactions are very much near the surface. (This was, unfortunately, never elaborated on so the way Alley was directed can come across as "wrong" to some viewers, but she was indeed following the character's backstory as originally intended.) Sidenote: this is the first proper hint that vulcans and romulans had had a closer/still-sustained contact that was generally known, even among the broader romulan and vulcan populace. (You'll see more about that down the line...)
"she was supposed to be half-vulcan, half-romulan"
Yes, I think that was in the novelization.
@@Chou-seh-fu It was also in the original filming of WoK, but the line and scene were cut (like many were, such as where it was noted that Midshipman Preston was Scotty's nephew). It was then incorporated into both the comics and the novelization. (This is why it isn't canon, but secondary source material; however, the related elements of her characterization -- her expressive emotions, by Vulcan standards, such as when she says "Damn" during the Kobayashi Maru, or flirts with Kirk in the turbolift, or later has a tear for Spock after his death, etc -- were all premised on her being half-vulcan/half-romulan, and not having had the initial cultural influence until she was at least 6-8 years old.)
Only thing that surprised me about your discussion/review at the end was that you didn't mention or perhaps weren't particularly impressed by the filmmaking and staging in the Mutara Nebula scene. I always thought the use of silence and then sudden slow/fast dynamics were incredibly impressive. Plus the ILM effects are amazing.
The entire nebula sequence is fantastic.
Great review guys. I think the focus on Savvik was because she was the Vulcan character to replace Spock long-term.
Kirstie Alley was also h0t
Spock's death in order to save The Enterprise was Kirk's "no win scenario" hence the frequent reference to the Kobayashi Maru throughout the film.
It was never mentioned in any movie but in the novelization of "The Wrath of Khan" Saavik was said to be a hybrid between a Vulcan and a Romulan, which may be the reason why she is crying at the end.
It was mentioned in the television version.
Really? I guess I have never watched this one. Otherwise I am pretty sure I would have remembered. It would appear I need to watch that version some time soon.@@johnmackendrick5173
In the director's cut it's explained that Peter Preston is Scott's nephew. That's why he's so shocked when Peter dies.
I love Kirstie Alley in this film. In some ways she outVulcans Spock.
Hey Alex & Josh, I was watching this reaction again and noticed that there are more LOL moments in this reaction than any of the other Trek you guys have done including TOS. I think that when you do Star Trek IV The Voyage Home there just may be even more LOL moments! 😀🖖
Hey guys, I've got some bad news for you. If you think that Spock's death scene isn't going to hit you as hard as this first, you're wrong! I've rewatched this movie dozens of times, and even watching your review was making me misty. IT GETS YOU EVERY FRICKIN' TIME!
When I first saw this in theaters, it was touted as an ending to TOS and the final voyage. Kirk older, Enterprise beat up, Spock dead. A son would also allow stories following the next generation of Kirk. In TOS, it's always strongly suggested that Kirk had a bad relationship, so he recentered his attention on the ship. In the "Naked Time" it is first setup as Kikr's motivation. In fact, in "Where No Mah Has Gone Before", Mitchell talks about 'aiming that little blonde tech at Kirk'. Kirk says he almost married her. Now we find out what happened to him and that relationship. It would be years before another movie came out. And each, except 5, was "the last movie". Think you guys should consider watching all the TOS movies before Next Gen. My $.02. Great job guys!
I was a very active fan through all of those years, and they were not all touted as the final voyage. That is simply not true. Also, you make it sound like there was a long gap after this movie, but Star Trek 3 came out only two years later. Before posting, you should remember that other people also lived through those times and that facts can be checked.
I’d say watching the TOS movies before TNG kinda ruins a few tidbits here and there with the Klingons
Spock’s death scene was written specifically to entice Leonard Nimoy to sign on and there was initially no intention of Spock coming back. That would change, however , as filming was reaching an end and Nimoy enjoyed the experience and had second thoughts.
Walter Keonig is so under utilized. He is a very good actor and unfortunately got typecast.
THEN, he was cast in a little show called Babylon 5, as Alfred Bester, and everyone's favorite character you love to hate, was born.
He got such an opportunity to just... act, over there. It was fun seeing him show up when he would.
This is the only movie I have ever waited in line overnight for. It did not disappoint. It remains my favorite Star Trek film of all time. I remember people commenting that Ricardo Montalban's bare chest had to be a fake chest piece, as he was in his 60's at the time. Nope. Mr. Roarke was stacked. Who knew? 😆
2. Starting at the end, I want to congratulate my fellow members of the Target Audience for their self-discipline in keeping the secret of this movie’s ending from Alex and Josh for all these months. We all knew from the start that this was the single biggest spoiler in the Star Trek franchise, and that the guys absolutely would not want to know about it in advance. Commenters (including me, I regret to say) shared more spoilers about everything else about Star Trek than Alex and Josh would have liked, but the conversation never approached the climactic events of Wrath of Khan without dissolving into oblique and incomprehensible hints. (Admittedly, their filtering words must also have helped. Did they include the words for the cessation of all bodily functions and the service commemorating someone’s life?)
In fact, spoilers about the ending were a major problem during the writing of Wrath of Khan. Leonard Nimoy was at first uninterested in playing Spock again. At the suggestion of co-writer Jack B. Sowards, the producers lured Nimoy back for the second movie with the opportunity to play Spock’s death scene. Producer Harve Bennett and director Nicholas Meyer originally planned to kill Spock in the *middle* of the film for maximum shock value. However, Gene Roddenberry, now working on Star Trek in a purely advisory capacity with no decision-making power whatsoever, was deeply upset by Spock’s planned death. He unprofessionally leaked the news to Star Trek fans, who began a letter-writing campaign to save Spock. As a result, Bennett and Meyer decided to move Spock’s death to the end of the film to serve as its emotional climax.
While discussing this situation one day, Bennett said in frustration, “We should just kill him at the beginning of the movie and get it over with.” To his surprise, Meyer replied, “That’s perfect!” This was the origin of the apparent deaths of Spock, McCoy, Uhura and Sulu in the opening Kobayashi Maru sequence. By revealing that Spock’s “death” was merely part of a simulation, the filmmakers hoped to fool audiences into thinking that the rumors they had heard about Spock’s fate referred to this event. Kirk emphasizes this by jokingly asking Spock, “Aren’t you dead?” The ruse worked: on first viewing, Star Trek fans relaxed back into their seats with a false sense of security at the end of the opening sequence, thus maximizing the impact of Spock’s actual death at the end of the film.
Note that a line from the voiceover in the original theatrical trailer for Wrath of Khan is misleadingly accurate: since Spock is, technically, the captain of the Enterprise in this film, and since he concurred in the decision to exile Khan to Ceti Alpha V in “Space Seed,” Khan truly was “Banished by a starship commander he is destined to destroy.”
I saw an interview once with Walter Koenig where he said he was well aware that Chekov was not on the Enterprise when they found Khan but he wasn't about to say anything and lose screen time!
5. At one of the first screenings of Wrath of Khan, a fan showed up with a portable television and VCR, set them up outside the theater, and played “Space Seed” for the fans in line.
Kirstie Alley is billed as “Introducing” in the opening credits because her only previous film credit (which was only her second screen acting role overall) was for "One More Chance," an expanded student film released in 1981. The “Introducing” credit traditionally means that the performer has had no previous roles in professional feature films.
The film’s on-screen writing credits do not tell the whole story. Jack B. Sowards (credited with the screenplay) and Harve Bennett (credited with co-writing the story with Sowards) were among several writers who contributed to earlier drafts of the script. When Nicholas Meyer joined the project, he was dissatisfied with the script as it then stood and asked for copies of all the earlier drafts. Putting together various story elements from the earlier versions, Meyer drafted his own script in a week, but never sought a writing credit on the film. Meyer has said that every line of the shooting script was his except for “This is the garden spot of Ceti Alpha VI,” which he ascribes to Bennett. In addition to the normal script changes prior to and during filming, there were crucial changes to the climax and ending made late in the production process, of which Meyer did not approve.
Surprisingly, this film’s opening caption is the first time Star Trek has specified the century in which it takes place. TOS kept the date deliberately vague to avoid arguments among writers and viewers about whether specific items of technology should exist yet, and there are contradictory dating clues in various episodes. In an early format document, Gene Roddenberry suggested that Star Trek took place sometime between the years 1999 and 2999; as we now see, that turned out to be correct. The caption at the beginning of Wrath of Khan came about because a studio executive was concerned that an elderly female relative (either his grandmother or his mother-in-law) would not understand the movie but thought she would understand it perfectly if it began with the words, “In the 23rd century”! (I do in fact think that Wrath of Khan is readily comprehensible to viewers who have never seen Star Trek before, although the story would carry far less emotional weight for them.) Future installments of the franchise will clarify the fictional chronology further.
Saw this opening day in 1982. I even had the poster they handed out for years afterwards. It's still my favorite Trek movie, and like everyone in the audience, was wiped out that they killed Spock. There wasn't a dry eye in the house once the lights came up, and several were openly crying. There were so many great scenes in this one, and I"m glad you guys appreciate them, and also realize this was the early 80's and don't expect the level of special effects that we have now. Great review and I'll be watching your reviews of the other 4 with the original cast.
This film has the 2nd best space battle scene ever when Kahn surprise attacks the Enterprise.
And it ends by having the best space battle ever when Spock sacrifices himself.
The special effects hold up so very well here. They look real because they are actually real! Not CGI which has a lifespan of 2 to 5 years in almost every instance.
But here those battles were amazing to watch. Even made better with HD version. That means the models they made here were out of this world to stand up to higher resolution not possible when the film was made.
The production team wanted to have a face to face confrontation between Kirk and Khan but they couldn't figure out a way to do it. Also, Ricardo Montalban had a problem with his leg as a result of an old back injury (he had back surgery right after shooting this movie and used a walker in his later years) and probably couldn't do a fight scene
I’d rate this as not just the best Trek flick, but the greatest movie of all time. The Undiscovered Country is close…both by the great Nicholas Meyer.
When I was 10 I loved it for the space battles
In my 20-30s the music and dialogue
As I approach 50, it’s about how we can deal with death as least as important as how we deal with life
“I feel young”
This is simply the greatest film ever made
I can't go so far as to say it's the greatest film of all time, but I don't feel shy at all including it in my top ten of all time list, which includes AMERICAN GRAFFITI, THE GENERAL, DUCK SOUP, ALL THE PRESIDENT'S MEN, BUTCH CASSIDY AND THE SUNDANCE KID, MR. HULOT'S HOLIDAY, and PLAYTIME. Somewhere in that unranked mess of film, ST2 is right at home.
I loved that you both got so moved at Spock's death! I could see the tears in your eyes. Such a sad moment in the film!