Good video. There was a video on the Bel Lavoro channel where he was doing the coating test on the hood and after using the DIY WSR even the areas that weren't coated had water behavior similar to the coated areas. When a different WSR was used, the coated areas were drastically different than the non coated areas.
You said this in another reply, "There is an opinion that WSR unclogs coatings after sustained mineral exposure. I don’t see any real levels on mineral build up in my climate so WSR’s typically don’t improve anything. What we’re checking is if any hydrophobic uplift is from the product, not from unclogging (by using a polished and unprotected panel)." I am in a climate where we get substantial coating clogging in the form of road salts and deicing brines. It can quickly clog even the best coatings and no amount of washing, alkaline chemical or physical decontamination can break through it. The best approach chemically is to use an acidic product. DIY WSR is just one version of this, it also happens (in my experience) to be one of the more effective and safe options. I like it because it is not as harsh, and I can easily use it in a targeted fashion (as opposed to an acidic soap foamed over the entire car) after a wash in the salt-contaminated areas that are showing diminished water behavior after a wash. I am not doubting the effect you showed, as I have seen it myself. I tend to do a second wash process after using it for that reason alone. It is temporarily changing the surface tension, however it is not putting down any kind of protection. It appears to just be a residue that is providing some minor degree of water repellency for a short time. I would suggest that maybe you could spray it on half of a panel, wipe it in, rinse it off and then wipe dry. Wait a day or two and then check it again. My experience tells me that you will not see any hydrophobic behavior on the half of the panel treated with the WSR. I have used this product enough to know that in the springtime, it can take a clogged coating from completely flat to performing like new. And I'm not just talking about how it looks just after rinsing off the WSR. I'm talking days, weeks and months after with no additional topping products applied. Just the bare coating. I don't think this is a product that everyone needs (you clearly don't) but that doesn't mean it is snake oil either. I have a ton of respect for Yvan and have learned a lot from him. But I have some differences of opinion on certain things and I don't think he's the sole source of detailing truth either. He's just a skilled guy selling a good product line he helped to develop.
Sounds like a DIY affiliated response for damage control. In my experience water spot removers never unclog a coating unless the mineral deposits are very superficial on a brand new coating. Old aged coatings that are clogged end up getting killed by water spot removers.
The purpose of this video was to specifically check for remaining product that changes water behaviour. I can’t test mineral removers for their specific function as my climate just doesn’t produce it naturally, nor does my water. I have them as insurance before moving on to polishing but that’s the extent of it. The fact that a simple ph neutral wash removed whatever lingering residue was left behind reinforces that this is not an intentional false effect, but it is worth noting that it can uplift water behaviour temporarily.
@@ArizonaDetailCorp I have zero affiliation with anyone. I'm just a retaining wall designer that likes to detail when I can and watch way too many detailing videos. There are DIY Detail products I like (WSR, Iron Remover, C6 Hydro Lite) and ones that I don't (Quick Beads, All Clean, Tire Lotion, graphene coating) and there are others that are "meh" (rinseless, Ceramic Gloss). I've also dogged Yvan in the comments (and elsewhere) for months about pro only coatings being complete BS. If I can buy a polisher from you that will take my paint off, you should also sell me whatever coating I want to buy. I can take the high spot risk. I think that reason is just a cover anyways...he's just trying to cater to his installers who are too scared to compete with an informed prosumer. My experience is just that. My experience. You can take it or leave it but I cater to no one.
@@sheepstardetail and I guess my point is that the water behavior uplift is not the source of hydrophobics that (most) people report after using the product. When used to unclog an otherwise intact and well-performing coating, the effect is much greater than what is shown on your videos and it is permanent (or at least until it gets clogged again).
So i have a small 2 person detail shop and ill qualify im no chemist or self promoted expert. With that said if i understood the situation correctly there was originally a coating or "failed" coating that you polished off and had a bare panel. Its been my understanding that all clearcoat that has seen the elements has degredation [microscopic hills and valleys] so with that said any protection previously put on would fill these voids and your polishing would basically shave a layer or clearcoat and expose that previous protection to some minor degree leaving you with hydrophobic properties? Second its been my understanding that rinseless washes also carry lubricating surfactants after emolsification so that dirt can be carried away without scratching the panel. I would think those surfactants could also add low level hydrophobics. And finally any product that flashes and has a alchohol base has a chance of leaving something behind. I havent used the product and maybe im way off base but it seems to reason that it may be swelling the paint like their app product slightly. Who knows just tossing ideas around
The reason for trying this products is that I had a coating which failed prematurely in a test. The coating was used, and had expired prior to applying it. This product was supposedly supposed to bring the coating back, with the assuming being that it was clogged (it wasn’t, my water has no minerals and these were only 2 months old). After applying this product, not only did that coating start to sheet water again, the entire car did (which had no protection applied for over 2 years). After washing with PH neutral shampoo the sheeting dropped off again. Then I followed up with all the stuff down I they video. Rinseless was is also a panel wipe so it really doesn’t leave much of anything behind.
Thanks a lot! We genuinely appreciate individuals like you who contribute such content. Ultimately, these companies’ sole objective is to make sales, even if they resort to manipulative tactics regarding their products.
Same when i asked Yvan if they would ever redo the formulation in their rinseless with the carcogenic ingredients in a livestream. He said even his water bottle is carcogenic, so no. Wear gloves. Yeah amazing. I compared other rinseless washes and none came up with carcogenics in it except DIY. The only “warning” in by example koch chemie is that they use sensitizers in their rinseless. But DIY got 3 of the worst in it rly. On top when i pointed out the products who look like DIY ones because we all know he works with known chemists, he reacts in a way that we rly look like baboons who speak nonsense. He may have his own formulations, but dont treat us as full blown idiots plz…
@@NoFix To clarify, are you saying that DIY Rinseless contains ingredients that are carcinogenic but other rinseless products do not? And you are saying that DIY has the option to remove them but choose not to do so?
@ im not a chemist so i dont know if they have that option. Since the others gave no warning, i guess they have? Once more im not a chemist, i just go out on the information i get myself. California Proposition 65 Warning: The product may contain ethylene oxide (CAS 75-21-8) and 1,4-dioxane (CAS 123-91-1), which are chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer and/or reproductive harm. Butoxyethanol (CAS 111-76-2): Listed in the “New Jersey Right To Know Components” and “Massachusetts Right To Know Components,” this chemical is associated with potential health hazards, though the SDS does not specifically classify it as a carcinogen. However, long-term exposure to butoxyethanol may carry risks depending on the concentration and exposure level. The SDS specifies no immediate carcinogenic classification for the main components under standard use, but the warnings about trace carcinogenic substances should not be overlooked, especially if you are handling large quantities or using it in an industrial setting. So while its still “trace carcogenic” i prefer to stay away from it since i didnt pass these ingredients in other rinseless washes. I looked at Koch chemie, Hero, Feynlab, Gyeon, Optimum as far as i can remember. Koch chemie did gave up it has sensitizers tho. Edit: At 8:20 u can look the answer th-cam.com/users/liveeXp4Xz_EEiI?t=499&si=Q_9v5i0hAjYFjThR
@@CJ_Detailing also curios as I always reached for DIY over other Rinseless because I considered it “safer” and tbh is one of the only products I will use without worrying so much about wearing gloves etc. Maybe I need to do better research
@@BreezeMWit’s fine, there is nothing remotely concerning in the rinseless. Just a guy parroting a fearmongering channel. The same carcinogen (which this guy can’t even spell) in the RW at low concentration with dilution is present at over 25% in many glass cleaners and other cleaning solutions. It’s just not very harmful.
I would have liked to see some different water spot removers tested also but I still think this video sums up your point. I’ve used griots water spot remover and just left the panel with flat hydrophobics. I am a little conflicted about this it could be a coincidence that the chemicals they use slightly increase hydrophobic or it could be intentional to make you think “oh wow this product really worked to bring back my coating/paint.” I like yvan and think he’s a good guy, but I have seen him been misleading about the chemicals in his products before whether it was intentional or not, I don’t know . When he was talking about C6 mist someone asked him “is there are isopropyl alcohol in here?”And he said “no it’s 2 propanol a derivative of isopropyl alcohol”. 2 propanol and isopropyl alcohol are the exact same chemicals, same chemical formula, many chemicals just have various synonyms for each other. so why did he say that? Was it to make it sound more complex than it really is? Was it to deter people from trying to make their own version if they hear it’s just isopropyl alcohol? I know that there are more ingredients in it than just that, but that always kind of bugged me even though it’s a very minor thing. Maybe he does think they are two different chemicals and no deception was meant idk.
So what lubricant is in it to make it hydrophobic? Hopefully diy detail can come comment ana answer this question or why does it create false hydrophobics
I came to the same conclusions when I used DIY WSR for the first time on my car. I compared DIY WSR with carpro spotless 2.0. Carpro left the panel flat, DIY made the panels extremely hydrophobic. I really like DIY products, but WSR is BS, DIY does not tell us the truth about the product. Thank you for the great review. Like and subscribe
Thank you for doing all this! Do you happen to have labocosmeticas purifica? I've used it on flat/bare panels that do indeed have light water spotting and the same effect occurs where there is increased hydrophobic behavior. Wondering what your thoughts are and if the result is the same as your conclusion where something is being left behind on the panel.
I really not have a massive need for WSR. I use it when I’m doing a full detail as part of Devon but I use it sparingly. If you have it, try it out and then wash it, see if it changes.
Get some lactic acid on the internet. Should be pretty cheap. Make a similar dilution of it. Compare appearance and performance directly to the DIY Water Spot Remover. Easy peasy
C.k., whats the difference between using water spot remover and using a more diluted acid wheel cleaner... some of the old school detailers would use a megs wheel brightener 15 to 1 or so
@@barrybij8079 acidity level has very little to do with it. Coca Cola has a pH of 2.4 for example. Even heavily diluted, something like Megs Wheel Brightener can damage a lot of materials (and yourself). The chemicals matter, not the pH of the chemical.
Ahh yes, I can see why - lactic acid is hydrophobic in nature. Our body produces it during high-intensity exercise, glucose is converted to lactic acid, and lactic acid helps to fuel the muscles for sustained exercise. Imagine sprinting up a 30 degree hill for 30 seconds, rest for 30 seconds then repeat this 6 times. You legs will be burning with lactic acid. But how are you able to continue sprinting even with the burning sensations? The muscle's don't arrest for those 30 seconds as lactic acid is accumulating, the muscles continue to work, so it needs fuel the muscles where lactic acid helps by bringing in blood and intra-cellular fluids (hydrophobic). Lactic acid is synthesized in a lab the same way. It'll be mixed into solvents and become a hydrophobic ether. What is seen on the panel is most likely a weak hydrogen bond from lactic acid to the paint. It'll be hydrophobic during this time, and washed away easily.
That makes a lot of sense! Shower maintenance sprays often have lactic acid (mine from target definitely does), and I usually see some hydrophobics after spraying it on shower glass
I've only used griots wsr and now I'm wondering if it really revived my coating or not. I like your unbiased videos. Maybe you can take over for scottHD and do some long term real world product testing.
I have heard both that WSR worked and didn’t from various places, can’t test for myself though. If the spotting is old all it will do is clean off any remaining spots (and may not even get it all), and leave behind the etching. I have those test as well, just not a farmers field worth of hoods laying about.
I have used other acids, not DIY WSR, and they have brought back sealants for me. I think you can rest easy it did work if it lasted for more than a wash.
It’s should be noted any of these rinseless products aside from Feynlab being used as a panel prep should only be for water based compounds. And also was OP spotless which is better than the DIY spotless imo entered into this discussion ? Or the labo preludio Acid ? Are we just trying to see hydrophobics ? Because clean paint has protection built in it will bead water without a layer of protection. Will it be chemical resistant sure but only so much. I need to go back and see what this is all about tho. I was arguing about the OP waterspot remover years ago and now everyone is using a low ph cleaner. lol also if you’re adding minerals to the surface with the rinseless which is what it looks like you’ll get that flat looking water behavior. I’ve done this test years ago after I seen Chelsea ( Attention to details Channel so how after using OP waterspot remover hydrophobics came back but then after rinsing it the panel went flat. ) we then learned from her video you can be adding a top layer of minerals to the surface with your rinseless. I figured that out some years ago and now only make my rinseless with Distilled water for that very same issue not to present itself. I see it when I’m cleaning with the labo Preludio rinseless 2ph system and work with Hydra from Phoenix EOD or Sublime from the Gloss shop or Hero. As long as my rinseless is made from distilled water and not tap water I don’t get the same reaction you did after using any rinseless.
@@AmirAbdullahit is, but it als means I can’t test/show any results for water spot removers, which is a much more common problem overall for detailers.
@@sheepstardetail Is it treated? I don't see how that's possible. I don't think I have encountered tap water with actually low TDS anywhere in the world.
Curious if you have seen similar from the acid Adam's Strip Wash or Purifica if you've tried it? I notice a similar effect to the DIY water spot remover but I have never tried it on a panel as flat as yours looks. Your panel looks so flat that it does seem like some surfactant film or something is on there. I also wonder if Veritas has some surfactant in it. Regardless, it does seem like there is some effect from the DIY WSR intentional or not.
It’s should be noted any of these rinseless products aside from Feynlab being used as a panel prep should only be for water based compounds. And also was OP spotless which is better than the DIY spotless imo entered into this discussion ? Or the labo preludio Acid ? Are we just trying to see hydrophobics ? Because clean paint has protection built in it will bead water without a layer of protection. Will it be chemical resistant sure but only so much. I need to go back and see what this is all about tho. I was arguing about the OP waterspot remover years ago and now everyone is using a low oh cleaner. lol
This is all about testing the claim that DIY WSR will restore hydrophobics to a “clogged” coating. So far the results have shown that the DIY WSR does not restore hydrophobics, but instead leaves a layer of something that is providing hydrophobic properties.
Why didnt you get other water spot removers to all compare to see how they act against each other. Or mix up a homebrew vinegar mixture to see how that was. Would have shown more comparing a bunch of WSR vs just DIY and then keep wiping down with a panel prep.
I’ve used the maniac WSR in one of the previous Fusso coat videos and it left nothing behind and didn’t change hydrophobics, so I didn’t really need to showcase that this time around. Go watch the Fusso coat 2 month update if you’d like to see how it performed.
The DIY SDS shows 30-40% Lactic Acid and 60-70% DI water. If that's actually the comprehensive list of ingredients, which it may not be, this is rather confusing and Yvan could still be correct.
@@sheepstardetail Yes, it's never the entire formula, but at those concentrations in the SDS there is not a lot of room for other ingredients. There is definitely something else since it is cloudy and lactic acid + water would produce a clear solution.
Not something I can test. I have heard it worked for others, and some people didn’t find it worked. Water spots that have sat for any real length of time will leave behind marks. You can remove the minerals but if it etched you’ll need to polish it out.
Yes you can. Check out Detail Co.’s low ph wash. Can be diluted in a pump sprayer then washed over top of to bring the panel back to neutral. Jamie the Cleaner did it in his newest update about all the coatings he has on his Wife’s Telluride.
Great work. I'm definitely going to change the order i do my decon wash (use waterspot remover after the initial foam and rinse, but before my contract wash).
You want to use a waterspot remover as the last step. If used before washing and mechanical decontamination it’s not designed to break through dirt and contaminants
@diydetailofficial I understand. My concern is that if I'm applying a sealant in the end, I want a completely bare surface and nothing from the Waterspot Remover left behind.
There is an opinion that WSR unclogs coatings after sustained mineral exposure. I don’t see any real levels on mineral build up in my climate so WSR’s typically don’t improve anything. What we’re checking is if any hydrophobic uplift is from the product, not from unclogging (by using a polished and unprotected panel).
I had a disgustion with Ivan before with this waterspot remover about the hydrophobic, it's leaving sometime behind he's trying to tell me noo I told him straight up BS I used it on an old car that never had a wax or anything boom fully hydrophobic, I did the headlights still hydrophobic.... that's why they say use it on ceramic coated car's Then he's trying to tell me all pain is hydrophobic haha new pain is hydrophobic yes that an old junk car.. A buddy of mine asked me to try it. I said no,. so he sent it to me. That's how I know something inside of it I love your videos, man. Keep it up, try ENERGO labocosmetica acid rain and mineral stain remover it's their water spot remover
Next time try watching the whole video. I said that there is something minor remaining, but it washes off with a simple mild shampoo. Same thing he said in ten life stream. I followed recommendations from the audience in the follow up to confirm that my shampoo wasn’t masking anything after the wash off, that’s why I used panel wipe. I’m not trying to be scientific I’m presenting my findings and asking for feed back. Yvan also told me I would be surprised by the results of DIY WSR privately in email, Vs my maniac line water spot remover, hence the reason for both videos.
No it’s not. FSE will leave your paint flat, it’s a low ph cleaner but it’ll never clean out coatings in fact it hurts coatings. I seen a demo of that very thing years ago. FSE actually hurt a coating. No the DIY waterspot remover is not like FSE imo. I’ve used plenty of both.
@@AmirAbdullah just because it's acidic, doesnt mean it'll "hurt" coating, and when u need to use mineral remover u will use it, whether it'll hurt the coating or not, because removing mineral is more important than leaving mineral on ur clear coat and let them etch deeper into ur clear coat. so if u follow that logic, dont need to mention about hurting the coating or not, unless u r dumb enough to trade etching waterspot with ur coating's lifespan. fse will not leave ur panel flat, it'll mask or "change" water beading behaviour for a very short while, after that, base coat water beading behaviour returns, fse and quick shine are both lsp, fse has limescale remover in it, that's all, u know what lsp does. given what we've seen so far, this subject matter is just behaving like another fse, or any other less popular quick detailers in the market with limescale remover.
@ how many times have you used FSE on a coating ? Be honest because like I said I see and tried it. It was considered harmful to coatings. You can make up any type of logic you like about it, I seen it damage ( not clog a coating but actually weaken a coating. ) but yeah it’s not even considered or advised to use FSE on coatings. No Koch rep has ever told me that. But whatever man you can continue to do as you like I won’t be taking that advice because I know better. But yeah man you can call it however you like. I seen different.
Good video. There was a video on the Bel Lavoro channel where he was doing the coating test on the hood and after using the DIY WSR even the areas that weren't coated had water behavior similar to the coated areas. When a different WSR was used, the coated areas were drastically different than the non coated areas.
Fresh cut! Going to need a Deep Dive on this from Yvan on his THOR segment.
Thanks for revisiting! I think this follow-up made the points made in your last video much clearer and more valid.
I forgot to give you a shout out, Arnold Schwarzenegger.
@ not necessary, I care about content and testing, not my name being shared!
@@AndreasSchwarzinger I think he should test with Purifica and see if it does the same thing. 🤔
You said this in another reply, "There is an opinion that WSR unclogs coatings after sustained mineral exposure. I don’t see any real levels on mineral build up in my climate so WSR’s typically don’t improve anything. What we’re checking is if any hydrophobic uplift is from the product, not from unclogging (by using a polished and unprotected panel)."
I am in a climate where we get substantial coating clogging in the form of road salts and deicing brines. It can quickly clog even the best coatings and no amount of washing, alkaline chemical or physical decontamination can break through it. The best approach chemically is to use an acidic product. DIY WSR is just one version of this, it also happens (in my experience) to be one of the more effective and safe options. I like it because it is not as harsh, and I can easily use it in a targeted fashion (as opposed to an acidic soap foamed over the entire car) after a wash in the salt-contaminated areas that are showing diminished water behavior after a wash.
I am not doubting the effect you showed, as I have seen it myself. I tend to do a second wash process after using it for that reason alone. It is temporarily changing the surface tension, however it is not putting down any kind of protection. It appears to just be a residue that is providing some minor degree of water repellency for a short time.
I would suggest that maybe you could spray it on half of a panel, wipe it in, rinse it off and then wipe dry. Wait a day or two and then check it again. My experience tells me that you will not see any hydrophobic behavior on the half of the panel treated with the WSR. I have used this product enough to know that in the springtime, it can take a clogged coating from completely flat to performing like new. And I'm not just talking about how it looks just after rinsing off the WSR. I'm talking days, weeks and months after with no additional topping products applied. Just the bare coating.
I don't think this is a product that everyone needs (you clearly don't) but that doesn't mean it is snake oil either. I have a ton of respect for Yvan and have learned a lot from him. But I have some differences of opinion on certain things and I don't think he's the sole source of detailing truth either. He's just a skilled guy selling a good product line he helped to develop.
Sounds like a DIY affiliated response for damage control. In my experience water spot removers never unclog a coating unless the mineral deposits are very superficial on a brand new coating. Old aged coatings that are clogged end up getting killed by water spot removers.
The purpose of this video was to specifically check for remaining product that changes water behaviour. I can’t test mineral removers for their specific function as my climate just doesn’t produce it naturally, nor does my water. I have them as insurance before moving on to polishing but that’s the extent of it.
The fact that a simple ph neutral wash removed whatever lingering residue was left behind reinforces that this is not an intentional false effect, but it is worth noting that it can uplift water behaviour temporarily.
@@ArizonaDetailCorp I have zero affiliation with anyone. I'm just a retaining wall designer that likes to detail when I can and watch way too many detailing videos. There are DIY Detail products I like (WSR, Iron Remover, C6 Hydro Lite) and ones that I don't (Quick Beads, All Clean, Tire Lotion, graphene coating) and there are others that are "meh" (rinseless, Ceramic Gloss). I've also dogged Yvan in the comments (and elsewhere) for months about pro only coatings being complete BS. If I can buy a polisher from you that will take my paint off, you should also sell me whatever coating I want to buy. I can take the high spot risk. I think that reason is just a cover anyways...he's just trying to cater to his installers who are too scared to compete with an informed prosumer.
My experience is just that. My experience. You can take it or leave it but I cater to no one.
@@sheepstardetail and I guess my point is that the water behavior uplift is not the source of hydrophobics that (most) people report after using the product. When used to unclog an otherwise intact and well-performing coating, the effect is much greater than what is shown on your videos and it is permanent (or at least until it gets clogged again).
@ yeah hence why I went to a bare panel and state the uplift was minor.
Great work! I could never wrap my head around the claim that failed coatings were “clogged” and the only way to revive them was DIY WSR.
So i have a small 2 person detail shop and ill qualify im no chemist or self promoted expert. With that said if i understood the situation correctly there was originally a coating or "failed" coating that you polished off and had a bare panel. Its been my understanding that all clearcoat that has seen the elements has degredation [microscopic hills and valleys] so with that said any protection previously put on would fill these voids and your polishing would basically shave a layer or clearcoat and expose that previous protection to some minor degree leaving you with hydrophobic properties? Second its been my understanding that rinseless washes also carry lubricating surfactants after emolsification so that dirt can be carried away without scratching the panel. I would think those surfactants could also add low level hydrophobics. And finally any product that flashes and has a alchohol base has a chance of leaving something behind. I havent used the product and maybe im way off base but it seems to reason that it may be swelling the paint like their app product slightly. Who knows just tossing ideas around
The reason for trying this products is that I had a coating which failed prematurely in a test. The coating was used, and had expired prior to applying it. This product was supposedly supposed to bring the coating back, with the assuming being that it was clogged (it wasn’t, my water has no minerals and these were only 2 months old). After applying this product, not only did that coating start to sheet water again, the entire car did (which had no protection applied for over 2 years).
After washing with PH neutral shampoo the sheeting dropped off again.
Then I followed up with all the stuff down I they video. Rinseless was is also a panel wipe so it really doesn’t leave much of anything behind.
Thanks a lot! We genuinely appreciate individuals like you who contribute such content. Ultimately, these companies’ sole objective is to make sales, even if they resort to manipulative tactics regarding their products.
Same when i asked Yvan if they would ever redo the formulation in their rinseless with the carcogenic ingredients in a livestream. He said even his water bottle is carcogenic, so no. Wear gloves.
Yeah amazing. I compared other rinseless washes and none came up with carcogenics in it except DIY. The only “warning” in by example koch chemie is that they use sensitizers in their rinseless. But DIY got 3 of the worst in it rly.
On top when i pointed out the products who look like DIY ones because we all know he works with known chemists, he reacts in a way that we rly look like baboons who speak nonsense. He may have his own formulations, but dont treat us as full blown idiots plz…
@@NoFix To clarify, are you saying that DIY Rinseless contains ingredients that are carcinogenic but other rinseless products do not? And you are saying that DIY has the option to remove them but choose not to do so?
@ im not a chemist so i dont know if they have that option. Since the others gave no warning, i guess they have? Once more im not a chemist, i just go out on the information i get myself.
California Proposition 65 Warning:
The product may contain
ethylene oxide (CAS 75-21-8) and 1,4-dioxane (CAS 123-91-1), which are chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer and/or reproductive harm.
Butoxyethanol (CAS 111-76-2): Listed in the “New Jersey Right To Know Components” and “Massachusetts Right To Know Components,” this chemical is associated with potential health hazards, though the SDS does not specifically classify it as a carcinogen. However, long-term exposure to butoxyethanol may carry risks depending on the concentration and exposure level.
The SDS specifies no immediate carcinogenic classification for the main components under standard use, but the warnings about trace carcinogenic substances should not be overlooked, especially if you are handling large quantities or using it in an industrial setting.
So while its still “trace carcogenic” i prefer to stay away from it since i didnt pass these ingredients in other rinseless washes. I looked at Koch chemie, Hero, Feynlab, Gyeon, Optimum as far as i can remember. Koch chemie did gave up it has sensitizers tho.
Edit: At 8:20 u can look the answer th-cam.com/users/liveeXp4Xz_EEiI?t=499&si=Q_9v5i0hAjYFjThR
@@CJ_Detailing also curios as I always reached for DIY over other Rinseless because I considered it “safer” and tbh is one of the only products I will use without worrying so much about wearing gloves etc. Maybe I need to do better research
@@BreezeMWit’s fine, there is nothing remotely concerning in the rinseless. Just a guy parroting a fearmongering channel. The same carcinogen (which this guy can’t even spell) in the RW at low concentration with dilution is present at over 25% in many glass cleaners and other cleaning solutions. It’s just not very harmful.
I would have liked to see some different water spot removers tested also but I still think this video sums up your point. I’ve used griots water spot remover and just left the panel with flat hydrophobics.
I am a little conflicted about this it could be a coincidence that the chemicals they use slightly increase hydrophobic or it could be intentional to make you think “oh wow this product really worked to bring back my coating/paint.”
I like yvan and think he’s a good guy, but I have seen him been misleading about the chemicals in his products before whether it was intentional or not, I don’t know . When he was talking about C6 mist someone asked him “is there are isopropyl alcohol in here?”And he said “no it’s 2 propanol a derivative of isopropyl alcohol”. 2 propanol and isopropyl alcohol are the exact same chemicals, same chemical formula, many chemicals just have various synonyms for each other.
so why did he say that? Was it to make it sound more complex than it really is? Was it to deter people from trying to make their own version if they hear it’s just isopropyl alcohol? I know that there are more ingredients in it than just that, but that always kind of bugged me even though it’s a very minor thing. Maybe he does think they are two different chemicals and no deception was meant idk.
I showed my other WSR in the 2 month Fusso update, and on my long term Cquartz lite vs Amazon coating test. No change there.
So what lubricant is in it to make it hydrophobic? Hopefully diy detail can come comment ana answer this question or why does it create false hydrophobics
From a previous reply, it appears to be from the lactic acid in the formula. Don’t quote me I’m not a chemist.
Well done, lots to think about.
Such a good topic and review for a product that HAS TO WORK! As we depend on these.....
I came to the same conclusions when I used DIY WSR for the first time on my car.
I compared DIY WSR with carpro spotless 2.0.
Carpro left the panel flat, DIY made the panels extremely hydrophobic.
I really like DIY products, but WSR is BS, DIY does not tell us the truth about the product.
Thank you for the great review.
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Thank you for doing all this! Do you happen to have labocosmeticas purifica? I've used it on flat/bare panels that do indeed have light water spotting and the same effect occurs where there is increased hydrophobic behavior. Wondering what your thoughts are and if the result is the same as your conclusion where something is being left behind on the panel.
I really not have a massive need for WSR. I use it when I’m doing a full detail as part of Devon but I use it sparingly. If you have it, try it out and then wash it, see if it changes.
Another great video and great information. Thanks for sharing.
One thing for SURE is that panel is CLEAN 😁
Get some lactic acid on the internet. Should be pretty cheap. Make a similar dilution of it. Compare appearance and performance directly to the DIY Water Spot Remover. Easy peasy
Thank you good sir for a well rounded video.
Thanks for the follow up
A slightly more detailed response or potential explanation would be much appreciated. :)
@@06kellyjacdef need a video from them regarding this. Tell us the truth Yvan. @diydetailofficial
C.k., whats the difference between using water spot remover and using a more diluted acid wheel cleaner... some of the old school detailers would use a megs wheel brightener 15 to 1 or so
Wheel acids can etch glass. Really not a good idea.
@sheepstardetail isn't water spot remover acid?
@@barrybij8079 acidity level has very little to do with it. Coca Cola has a pH of 2.4 for example.
Even heavily diluted, something like Megs Wheel Brightener can damage a lot of materials (and yourself). The chemicals matter, not the pH of the chemical.
Ahh yes, I can see why - lactic acid is hydrophobic in nature. Our body produces it during high-intensity exercise, glucose is converted to lactic acid, and lactic acid helps to fuel the muscles for sustained exercise.
Imagine sprinting up a 30 degree hill for 30 seconds, rest for 30 seconds then repeat this 6 times. You legs will be burning with lactic acid. But how are you able to continue sprinting even with the burning sensations? The muscle's don't arrest for those 30 seconds as lactic acid is accumulating, the muscles continue to work, so it needs fuel the muscles where lactic acid helps by bringing in blood and intra-cellular fluids (hydrophobic).
Lactic acid is synthesized in a lab the same way. It'll be mixed into solvents and become a hydrophobic ether. What is seen on the panel is most likely a weak hydrogen bond from lactic acid to the paint. It'll be hydrophobic during this time, and washed away easily.
Thank you for explaining what is happening. Should I keep you on retainer for future videos when I am accused of using bad soap or hiding things?
That makes a lot of sense! Shower maintenance sprays often have lactic acid (mine from target definitely does), and I usually see some hydrophobics after spraying it on shower glass
@@mikeeonfiya lactic acid is NOT hydrophobic. Totally incorrect.
@@mikeeonfiya in fact, lactic acid is extremely hygroscopic. Stop spewing incorrect information.
Just goes to show this guy knows nothing. It's one thing to do the testing, but with the results, he is MAKING WRONG ASSUMPTIONS.
I've only used griots wsr and now I'm wondering if it really revived my coating or not.
I like your unbiased videos. Maybe you can take over for scottHD and do some long term real world product testing.
I have heard both that WSR worked and didn’t from various places, can’t test for myself though. If the spotting is old all it will do is clean off any remaining spots (and may not even get it all), and leave behind the etching.
I have those test as well, just not a farmers field worth of hoods laying about.
I have used other acids, not DIY WSR, and they have brought back sealants for me. I think you can rest easy it did work if it lasted for more than a wash.
It’s should be noted any of these rinseless products aside from Feynlab being used as a panel prep should only be for water based compounds. And also was OP spotless which is better than the DIY spotless imo entered into this discussion ? Or the labo preludio Acid ? Are we just trying to see hydrophobics ? Because clean paint has protection built in it will bead water without a layer of protection. Will it be chemical resistant sure but only so much. I need to go back and see what this is all about tho. I was arguing about the OP waterspot remover years ago and now everyone is using a low ph cleaner. lol also if you’re adding minerals to the surface with the rinseless which is what it looks like you’ll get that flat looking water behavior. I’ve done this test years ago after I seen Chelsea ( Attention to details Channel so how after using OP waterspot remover hydrophobics came back but then after rinsing it the panel went flat. ) we then learned from her video you can be adding a top layer of minerals to the surface with your rinseless. I figured that out some years ago and now only make my rinseless with Distilled water for that very same issue not to present itself. I see it when I’m cleaning with the labo Preludio rinseless 2ph system and work with Hydra from Phoenix EOD or Sublime from the Gloss shop or Hero. As long as my rinseless is made from distilled water and not tap water I don’t get the same reaction you did after using any rinseless.
I have soft, mineral free tape water. I don’t get water spots no matter what I do.
@@sheepstardetail awesome that’s really a benefit for you.
@@AmirAbdullahit is, but it als means I can’t test/show any results for water spot removers, which is a much more common problem overall for detailers.
@@sheepstardetail Is it treated? I don't see how that's possible. I don't think I have encountered tap water with actually low TDS anywhere in the world.
@ why do you think nestle came and bought all the water here?
Curious if you have seen similar from the acid Adam's Strip Wash or Purifica if you've tried it? I notice a similar effect to the DIY water spot remover but I have never tried it on a panel as flat as yours looks. Your panel looks so flat that it does seem like some surfactant film or something is on there. I also wonder if Veritas has some surfactant in it. Regardless, it does seem like there is some effect from the DIY WSR intentional or not.
Adams doesn’t do this, it seems rather mild.
@@sheepstardetail It depends on dilution, straight out of the bottle it is very strong, pH of 2.
It’s should be noted any of these rinseless products aside from Feynlab being used as a panel prep should only be for water based compounds. And also was OP spotless which is better than the DIY spotless imo entered into this discussion ? Or the labo preludio Acid ? Are we just trying to see hydrophobics ? Because clean paint has protection built in it will bead water without a layer of protection. Will it be chemical resistant sure but only so much. I need to go back and see what this is all about tho. I was arguing about the OP waterspot remover years ago and now everyone is using a low oh cleaner. lol
This is all about testing the claim that DIY WSR will restore hydrophobics to a “clogged” coating. So far the results have shown that the DIY WSR does not restore hydrophobics, but instead leaves a layer of something that is providing hydrophobic properties.
Is a natural effect of the acid, like Purifica, or the product you use to clean the sink at home, all of them repel water for some seconds or minutes.
Yeah that seems to be the case, not mentioned on the bottle that this effect is normal though.
Why didnt you get other water spot removers to all compare to see how they act against each other. Or mix up a homebrew vinegar mixture to see how that was. Would have shown more comparing a bunch of WSR vs just DIY and then keep wiping down with a panel prep.
I’ve used the maniac WSR in one of the previous Fusso coat videos and it left nothing behind and didn’t change hydrophobics, so I didn’t really need to showcase that this time around. Go watch the Fusso coat 2 month update if you’d like to see how it performed.
The DIY SDS shows 30-40% Lactic Acid and 60-70% DI water. If that's actually the comprehensive list of ingredients, which it may not be, this is rather confusing and Yvan could still be correct.
SDS is only safety related ingredients, they can’t give away the formula.
@@sheepstardetail Yes, it's never the entire formula, but at those concentrations in the SDS there is not a lot of room for other ingredients. There is definitely something else since it is cloudy and lactic acid + water would produce a clear solution.
@@chrisbradley3224 it’s loosely based on OP’s Spotless a Vinegar low ph cleaner. I’m sure it has some surfactants in it but it’s vinegar based.
Oddly enough the smell reminded me of technicians choice ceramic spray.
@@AmirAbdullah It's not vinegar according to their own SDS. Lactic acid isn't vinegar, acetic acid is. Similar enough though.
Interesting seeing that
Does it remove water spots?
Not something I can test. I have heard it worked for others, and some people didn’t find it worked. Water spots that have sat for any real length of time will leave behind marks. You can remove the minerals but if it etched you’ll need to polish it out.
Question, can you use low ph soaps and turn them into basically this spray type?
Possibly. A dedicated WSR could be more concentrated though.
Yes you can. Check out Detail Co.’s low ph wash. Can be diluted in a pump sprayer then washed over top of to bring the panel back to neutral. Jamie the Cleaner did it in his newest update about all the coatings he has on his Wife’s Telluride.
@ got a link to the video?
Yes, use Purifica by Labocosmetica
Great video. Thanks for the upload!!!
A home brewed IPA is ok but I'd prefer a stout or porter!
But IPA’s are more crushable!
But I prefer my 🍺 with a 🍋 🤣🤣🤣
Thanks for the follow up!
Interesting stuff here
Clear coat when new is hydrophobic
Yes clean paint naturally repels water. But not to that extent. This must be DIY’s alt account.
Great work. I'm definitely going to change the order i do my decon wash (use waterspot remover after the initial foam and rinse, but before my contract wash).
You want to use a waterspot remover as the last step. If used before washing and mechanical decontamination it’s not designed to break through dirt and contaminants
@diydetailofficial I understand. My concern is that if I'm applying a sealant in the end, I want a completely bare surface and nothing from the Waterspot Remover left behind.
I’m so confused on what this video is showing :/ … so is WSR bs? Sorry for the ignorance.
There is an opinion that WSR unclogs coatings after sustained mineral exposure. I don’t see any real levels on mineral build up in my climate so WSR’s typically don’t improve anything. What we’re checking is if any hydrophobic uplift is from the product, not from unclogging (by using a polished and unprotected panel).
@@sheepstardetail ahhhh okay. Thanks man for the clarification. Congrats on 2k!
I had a disgustion with Ivan before with this waterspot remover about the hydrophobic, it's leaving sometime behind he's trying to tell me noo I told him straight up BS I used it on an old car that never had a wax or anything boom fully hydrophobic, I did the headlights still hydrophobic.... that's why they say use it on ceramic coated car's
Then he's trying to tell me all pain is hydrophobic haha new pain is hydrophobic yes that an old junk car..
A buddy of mine asked me to try it. I said no,. so he sent it to me. That's how I know something inside of it
I love your videos, man. Keep it up, try ENERGO labocosmetica acid rain and mineral stain remover it's their water spot remover
Good video tho.
Not only don't you care, you don't know. Yvan seemed pretty clear about that on the Q&A.
Next time try watching the whole video. I said that there is something minor remaining, but it washes off with a simple mild shampoo. Same thing he said in ten life stream. I followed recommendations from the audience in the follow up to confirm that my shampoo wasn’t masking anything after the wash off, that’s why I used panel wipe. I’m not trying to be scientific I’m presenting my findings and asking for feed back.
Yvan also told me I would be surprised by the results of DIY WSR privately in email, Vs my maniac line water spot remover, hence the reason for both videos.
Are you in charge of the FAN PAGE
Gonna say it again, it’s just another FSE 🫠🫡🫨
What's fse?
@@alvin3502Koch Chemie “Finish Spray Exterior” a detail spray with water spot remover.
No it’s not. FSE will leave your paint flat, it’s a low ph cleaner but it’ll never clean out coatings in fact it hurts coatings. I seen a demo of that very thing years ago. FSE actually hurt a coating. No the DIY waterspot remover is not like FSE imo. I’ve used plenty of both.
@@AmirAbdullah just because it's acidic, doesnt mean it'll "hurt" coating, and when u need to use mineral remover u will use it, whether it'll hurt the coating or not, because removing mineral is more important than leaving mineral on ur clear coat and let them etch deeper into ur clear coat. so if u follow that logic, dont need to mention about hurting the coating or not, unless u r dumb enough to trade etching waterspot with ur coating's lifespan. fse will not leave ur panel flat, it'll mask or "change" water beading behaviour for a very short while, after that, base coat water beading behaviour returns, fse and quick shine are both lsp, fse has limescale remover in it, that's all, u know what lsp does. given what we've seen so far, this subject matter is just behaving like another fse, or any other less popular quick detailers in the market with limescale remover.
@ how many times have you used FSE on a coating ? Be honest because like I said I see and tried it. It was considered harmful to coatings. You can make up any type of logic you like about it, I seen it damage ( not clog a coating but actually weaken a coating. ) but yeah it’s not even considered or advised to use FSE on coatings. No Koch rep has ever told me that. But whatever man you can continue to do as you like I won’t be taking that advice because I know better. But yeah man you can call it however you like. I seen different.