Super cool vid. Thanks for "sharing your journey." I have just discovered the Janko keyboard and imediatley thought "I wonder if I can convert one of my midis..." 🤔
Oo, a Reddit-only Janko club, with a nice non-tutorial video as the initiation! Loved the virtuous boxing glove demonstration followed by the much-less-elegant actual demonstration at the end. To be more serious, there aren't many conversions like this out there, so props and I hope you're having fun! Toms Jenson did one and he was apparently able to make the holes and pegs tight enough, with only a few of the holes being too tight; maybe it's the brand of printer or the shape of the pegs and holes ("+"), or just that he has more experience with the process since you were new to 3D printing at the time this video? I don't really know anything about 3D printing myself, just thought the difference in printing experiences between you twos' conversion projects was interesting. I also have a cheap Keystation 3, so this video serves as extra motivation to just jump the gun and try to convert it already like I've been thinking about doing for a while! By the way, loved the extended demo at the end for real, so many of these kinds of videos don't show much of the thing being demonstrated in actual action except for like a few seconds, sounded very pretty too. By the way, what does that black and blue color scheme signify?
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it! The black and blue was a way for me to quickly recognize different octaves, and I didn't need to print up as many black keys to cover everything. I didn't show in the video but I printed up keys in black, white, blue, green, and red, because I'm into microtonal composition and want to be able to configure it for any tuning. If I've got 22 or more notes per octave, for example, it would be very helpful to use multiple colors to be able to quickly find any key. Is Toms the one I saw on reddit with the hexagonal overlay keys? If not can you link me to whatever it is? :)
@@LiftPizzas Ah, makes sense, thanks. That should be the one, yes! Still holding out for the larger and improved version he hinted at making at some point. Hopefully people doing these kinds of conversions starts gaining more traction at some point, and it eventually culminates in someone being able to sustain themselves enough to where they can offer them more afforably for those without the means to make one themselves. The road to more widespread Janko adoption is very steep indeed...
I can't imagine the overlay being great to use, I'd expect that the keys would bounce up and tap on the "real" keys below, it would slide around over the keys, etc. Seems more like a tech demo or proof of concept type of thing rather than something you'd want to use daily for years. If your only goal is a standard (12 keys per octave) Janko piano layout and you don't need to swap keys/colors around, you could just print each key as one big solid piece without needing the pegs/holes at all, which would be a huge improvement in the sturdiness of the keys (the upright pegs could be as thick as the black keys on a piano) and a lot easier to engineer. You could probably make keys to replace piano keys instead of an overlay if you were so inclined, too. I think the biggest obstacle is time. How much time are you willing to put in to have one of your own? Compare to how much time are you willing to put in to make one for a stranger? The parts needed are pretty cheap, really. I used maybe $30 worth of plastic to print it up. The maudio keyboard cost 3 times that by itself. And 3d printers are now cheap. :) If you screw up a part it's not like you lost a bunch of money trying to make it. Make modifications and try again, you'll get it right eventually. :)
@@LiftPizzas I'm not sure if this comment was meant for a different context, but yeah, overlays aren't as stable as full conversions for sure, though they apparently aren't so bad on non-weighted keys compared to weighted ones. There's also one overlay out there that you're meant to permanently affix to the keyboard, so that one is a bit more like a less-direct form conversion, a weird in-between. I wonder if Paul Vandervoort's old overlay was a lot more stable than most due to its more elaborate and heavy construction. I wonder why Toms's conversion also had a lego-y key-to-peg configuration despite not having the same tuning goals. I assumed it was for more easy repair or something, but I never gave it much thought anyhow. I can see myself trying to set aside the time to figure this kind of thing out, but some people just don't have the time or spare commitment for a DIY project like that, even if relatively cheap and not all that difficult. Some also find the idea intimidating and shy away from really trying; this is why, to me, it's important for there to eventually be a third party who ends up in a position where they can more easily aswell as affordably sell conversions to others. ~ The Janko will most likely always be niche no matter how many people gain an interest in it, but it's currently not just a niche layout but at the level of being dreadfully esoteric. I just hope it can eventually break free from that level of obscurity as more people gain an interest in it and are able to hold that interest due to the layout slowly becoming more accessible.
Awesome vid! I just picked up one of these keyboards for $5 lol, I also have a 3d printer, would you be consider sharing your files? I'm a huge noob when it comes to design. Looks like so much fun to play vs the standard piano layout.
Are you looking for one that stays the same 12 keys forever, or keys that can be rearranged for microtonal stuff? Which type/size/brand of keyboard? (I know I can do it with a Maudio keyboard, but it's not weighted keys and doesn't make any sound itself, it's only a MIDI controller.) I don't think I could make one with weighted keys.
I have a 5 octaves evolution keyboard (which later became this exact line of midi controllers from m-audio), I have also the same 3d printer. Years ago I begin to disassembly the keyboard to try to make the exact same thing you did, but when I saw the keys were made together I left it open taking dust until today. I see your keys size are much better than the Chromatone keyboard which I also have. That keyboard has the keys so small that it has 88 keys at the space of 5 octaves in a normal keyboard. It's very annoying. Very well done job!!!
I built it in tinkercad. It's printed with hatchbox brand PLA. I haven't printed in anything else yet so I'm not sure if it would make a difference or not. But I do have design changes I would make to continue improving it if I do decide to keep going. Mainly making it more solid/sturdy.
For me 4 rows have been sufficient, but I'm far more proficient with the standard piano layout and probably not taking much advantage of the janko setup when I play. The nice thing is it allows the second row to be either the upper row or the lower row, depending on which angle your hand is pointing.
Paul Vandervoort used to rock a 4-row, but realized there are certain situations where you aren't able to play as naturally, so nowadays he reccomends and plays on a 5-row. Six rows seems like it may reach the point of being superfluous, but it may have the optional advantage of not requiring you to move your hands up and down (vertically) the rows as much.
Are you still using it? How is it holding up? I have an Alesis Q49 wich appears to be exactly the same, right down to the order of the program functions on the keys. Having done a little exploratory surgery, it looks the same on the inside too. Are you sharing files?
Still using it here and there, I don't use it daily or anything. It does ok but I'd want to make the keys out of something more solid/permanent like ABS if I had the choice. I'll have to look and see if I have the files on tinkercad.
@@LiftPizzas S'all good. I'll probably just develop my own anyway. I've been thinking of getting a 3D printer for years. I think this is the thing that's pushed it over the top. Isomorphic musical instruments are awesome! But good ones are either not for sale or super-expensive.
Not sure what you mean. If you're talking about velocity sensitive: that uses two buttons for each key, and electronic circuits that are specifically made to calculate the timing between when the two buttons are pressed and turn that into velocity. Given the price of a keyboard like this, it's not worth the expense/effort.
@@LiftPizzas No, I'm talking about adding a resistive layer under the keyboard. Pressing speed is one thing, and aftertouch (pressure) is another. For example, like Sensel morph
Super cool vid. Thanks for "sharing your journey."
I have just discovered the Janko keyboard and imediatley thought "I wonder if I can convert one of my midis..." 🤔
Oo, a Reddit-only Janko club, with a nice non-tutorial video as the initiation! Loved the virtuous boxing glove demonstration followed by the much-less-elegant actual demonstration at the end.
To be more serious, there aren't many conversions like this out there, so props and I hope you're having fun! Toms Jenson did one and he was apparently able to make the holes and pegs tight enough, with only a few of the holes being too tight; maybe it's the brand of printer or the shape of the pegs and holes ("+"), or just that he has more experience with the process since you were new to 3D printing at the time this video? I don't really know anything about 3D printing myself, just thought the difference in printing experiences between you twos' conversion projects was interesting.
I also have a cheap Keystation 3, so this video serves as extra motivation to just jump the gun and try to convert it already like I've been thinking about doing for a while!
By the way, loved the extended demo at the end for real, so many of these kinds of videos don't show much of the thing being demonstrated in actual action except for like a few seconds, sounded very pretty too. By the way, what does that black and blue color scheme signify?
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it! The black and blue was a way for me to quickly recognize different octaves, and I didn't need to print up as many black keys to cover everything. I didn't show in the video but I printed up keys in black, white, blue, green, and red, because I'm into microtonal composition and want to be able to configure it for any tuning. If I've got 22 or more notes per octave, for example, it would be very helpful to use multiple colors to be able to quickly find any key.
Is Toms the one I saw on reddit with the hexagonal overlay keys? If not can you link me to whatever it is? :)
@@LiftPizzas
Ah, makes sense, thanks.
That should be the one, yes! Still holding out for the larger and improved version he hinted at making at some point.
Hopefully people doing these kinds of conversions starts gaining more traction at some point, and it eventually culminates in someone being able to sustain themselves enough to where they can offer them more afforably for those without the means to make one themselves. The road to more widespread Janko adoption is very steep indeed...
I can't imagine the overlay being great to use, I'd expect that the keys would bounce up and tap on the "real" keys below, it would slide around over the keys, etc. Seems more like a tech demo or proof of concept type of thing rather than something you'd want to use daily for years.
If your only goal is a standard (12 keys per octave) Janko piano layout and you don't need to swap keys/colors around, you could just print each key as one big solid piece without needing the pegs/holes at all, which would be a huge improvement in the sturdiness of the keys (the upright pegs could be as thick as the black keys on a piano) and a lot easier to engineer. You could probably make keys to replace piano keys instead of an overlay if you were so inclined, too.
I think the biggest obstacle is time. How much time are you willing to put in to have one of your own? Compare to how much time are you willing to put in to make one for a stranger? The parts needed are pretty cheap, really. I used maybe $30 worth of plastic to print it up. The maudio keyboard cost 3 times that by itself. And 3d printers are now cheap. :) If you screw up a part it's not like you lost a bunch of money trying to make it. Make modifications and try again, you'll get it right eventually. :)
@@LiftPizzas
I'm not sure if this comment was meant for a different context, but yeah, overlays aren't as stable as full conversions for sure, though they apparently aren't so bad on non-weighted keys compared to weighted ones. There's also one overlay out there that you're meant to permanently affix to the keyboard, so that one is a bit more like a less-direct form conversion, a weird in-between. I wonder if Paul Vandervoort's old overlay was a lot more stable than most due to its more elaborate and heavy construction.
I wonder why Toms's conversion also had a lego-y key-to-peg configuration despite not having the same tuning goals. I assumed it was for more easy repair or something, but I never gave it much thought anyhow.
I can see myself trying to set aside the time to figure this kind of thing out, but some people just don't have the time or spare commitment for a DIY project like that, even if relatively cheap and not all that difficult. Some also find the idea intimidating and shy away from really trying; this is why, to me, it's important for there to eventually be a third party who ends up in a position where they can more easily aswell as affordably sell conversions to others.
~
The Janko will most likely always be niche no matter how many people gain an interest in it, but it's currently not just a niche layout but at the level of being dreadfully esoteric. I just hope it can eventually break free from that level of obscurity as more people gain an interest in it and are able to hold that interest due to the layout slowly becoming more accessible.
Merci !
Awesome vid! I just picked up one of these keyboards for $5 lol, I also have a 3d printer, would you be consider sharing your files? I'm a huge noob when it comes to design. Looks like so much fun to play vs the standard piano layout.
i’m interested in buying a pre converted keyboard. any pricing/other details?
Are you looking for one that stays the same 12 keys forever, or keys that can be rearranged for microtonal stuff? Which type/size/brand of keyboard? (I know I can do it with a Maudio keyboard, but it's not weighted keys and doesn't make any sound itself, it's only a MIDI controller.) I don't think I could make one with weighted keys.
Hey. I didn’t get the notification for your reply, so sorry. No interest in microtonal, just something that resembles yours?
I have a 5 octaves evolution keyboard (which later became this exact line of midi controllers from m-audio), I have also the same 3d printer. Years ago I begin to disassembly the keyboard to try to make the exact same thing you did, but when I saw the keys were made together I left it open taking dust until today. I see your keys size are much better than the Chromatone keyboard which I also have. That keyboard has the keys so small that it has 88 keys at the space of 5 octaves in a normal keyboard. It's very annoying.
Very well done job!!!
I would be interested in a 61 key midi controller with the 12 keys forever (no microtonal).
interesting, must b very confusing at first
please please please share a thingiverse link!!
what software did you use to build the model?
also what meterial is this? do you like it or you would like it to be printed out of something else?
I built it in tinkercad. It's printed with hatchbox brand PLA. I haven't printed in anything else yet so I'm not sure if it would make a difference or not. But I do have design changes I would make to continue improving it if I do decide to keep going. Mainly making it more solid/sturdy.
So, what are your thoughts on 4- and 6-row Janko? Do you really need six rows to play, or 4 rows are just enough?
For me 4 rows have been sufficient, but I'm far more proficient with the standard piano layout and probably not taking much advantage of the janko setup when I play. The nice thing is it allows the second row to be either the upper row or the lower row, depending on which angle your hand is pointing.
Paul Vandervoort used to rock a 4-row, but realized there are certain situations where you aren't able to play as naturally, so nowadays he reccomends and plays on a 5-row. Six rows seems like it may reach the point of being superfluous, but it may have the optional advantage of not requiring you to move your hands up and down (vertically) the rows as much.
Are you still using it? How is it holding up?
I have an Alesis Q49 wich appears to be exactly the same, right down to the order of the program functions on the keys.
Having done a little exploratory surgery, it looks the same on the inside too.
Are you sharing files?
Still using it here and there, I don't use it daily or anything. It does ok but I'd want to make the keys out of something more solid/permanent like ABS if I had the choice. I'll have to look and see if I have the files on tinkercad.
@@LiftPizzas S'all good. I'll probably just develop my own anyway.
I've been thinking of getting a 3D printer for years.
I think this is the thing that's pushed it over the top.
Isomorphic musical instruments are awesome!
But good ones are either not for sale or super-expensive.
@@Jake-co7rtYep, those are the same reasons I made my own.
I made an universal janko adapter, checkout my channel, maybe you like it
How to upgrade a regular MIDI keyboard to make it "pressure"?
Not sure what you mean. If you're talking about velocity sensitive: that uses two buttons for each key, and electronic circuits that are specifically made to calculate the timing between when the two buttons are pressed and turn that into velocity. Given the price of a keyboard like this, it's not worth the expense/effort.
@@LiftPizzas No, I'm talking about adding a resistive layer under the keyboard. Pressing speed is one thing, and aftertouch (pressure) is another. For example, like Sensel morph
I was doing similar but then found the chromatone keyboard on ebay from Japan and bought that
Ух ты
Wow,da lass ich meine Masterkey lieber intakt.Ich machte 50 Jahre Livemusik Keyboard und rettete gute Keyboards❤❤❤😂🎉
Can you play a 14 or 15 note tuning on your keyboard and then 6, 13, or 22 the next day? I think you missed the point of this video.
Meowdio