Well done Kitty!! And thank you for this informative video! It is really difficult to find valuable information like this online, so I really appreciate it. Just in terms of structuring your answers on the application form: For presentations, do you explain each project in a paragraph, or just use bullet points to say when and where you've presented?
If it’s just the oriel application (non-white space) then just list them in each box. If it’s a WSQ asking for presentations I would briefly summarise the project and then say where it was presented, e.g. I conducted a systematic review examining XYZ which was presented orally at the international xxx conference.
hey thanks for this video, very informative! I've been looking at a few posts and they have the theme title "response mode". Could you elaborate what this means? thanks
Hi Kitty Wong thank you so much for this video. I had a question please. I am aware that they will be looking at your publications. Would this include publications from where you are cited within a hyperlink (e.g.vin a multicenter where there will be loads of collaborators). This is one of those citations where you click the organisation name and then you see your name listed among many others. Thanks!
I would put them down but try to make a note that you're a collaborative author and role (e.g. local / regional / national lead or just collaborator) and I would put them at the bottom of the list.
Based on the CST 2022 application guidance you basically have to be a consultant to get into CST at this point 🤦🏻♀️ Also, congratulations on your post!!
Hi Kitty, wanted to clarify some basic info - 1. If I want to apply for CST (clinical only )and ACF (academic and clinical), will they be separate applications? If they are not separate applications, do I only apply for ACF and I will automatically be considered for CST ? 2. What is the difference between an ACF post, and working as an education fellow? Is an education fellow post helpful in ACF portfolio? 3. At what point in the application do we clarify the area of interest e.g surgery, medicine etc? Is it asked for in the application or during the interviews? 4. Do we select ACF allocated posts from the list available or are we assigned according to scoring or preference? Would appreciate your guidance 😊
1. Separate applications. You need to apply to CST just like everyone else i.e. the standard application. Theoretically this is so that if you get an ACF post you want to turn down you can preference CST jobs like everyone else. 2. I can only speak for research themed ACFs as that’s what I’m doing (and education ACFs are quite rare). The main benefit is that ACF is part of the training pathway for your specialty and comes with a runthrough number; where as an education fellow would be taken as an F3/F4 without counting towards training. If you are applying to an education ACF, I imagine yes this might be helpful. 3. The ACF posts are specifically advertised for certain specialties and you apply to as many as you want. Some are specialty specific (e.g. GP ACF or cardiology ACF), some are themed (e.g. Acute care suitable for GP / cardiology / ED / IM trainees). You can apply to multiple posts per deanery, for example, the deanery might have 2x ACF posts for GP and additional theme post also suitable to GPs. In this case you can make 3 applications. 4. As above - unlike AFP, you only apply for the post with the specialty and theme already in mind and there is no changing the specialty or theme afterwards.
Thank you for your video and congratulations for landing your ACF! Just to clarify, if one wants to apply for an ACF, it is also mandatory to also apply for the clinical pathway training equivalent in order to benchmark clinically? Also, could you tell us a bit more about your portfolio and what is generally considered desirable to get shortlisted for an ACF (eg number of publications, experience)? Thank you!
Yes, you have to apply for clinical pathway training simultaneously to benchmark, unless you have already done this by the time of application (e.g. if you’re applying to ACF at ST4 having already gotten an ST3 number the year before). It’s hard to say what is a “desirable” number of achievements as I only have my own experience and a few other anecdotes to go on. My CV was probably above average but generally if you’ve had a couple presentations / publications with a good set of WSQs you’ll get shortlisted, and building your CV for other big categories as well e.g. teaching programme. The range is massive with outliers on either end (think PhD with 30+ publications, or others with no publications at all)
Hi Kitty, thank you so much for this! I was hoping you could clarify something - when people move on to an ACL following the ACF, is a PhD usually integrated into the ACL, or do you typically undertake a PhD then move on to the ACL as an ST4? Thank you!
Hi, a PhD has to be done as time out of training (TOOT-R) and does not form part of the ACF or ACL. The prerequisite for applying for ACL posts usually states you must already have a PhD.
Don't mind my rudimentary questions as follows: I really do not understand bench-marking. Are you saying that aside the oriel application for the ACF, there is another separate application? What exactly is this application? And is this still via oriel? Is this the same as the MSRA applications after which you are ranked? Is that what bench-marking means?Please explain as it is quite confusing for IMGs. I came across this question while applying for an ACF post: ''Have you also applied for academic clinical fellowship (ACF) training in this specialty in the 2023 academic recruitment round?'' What does this mean? Thank you
So it’s just the equivalent clinical application you have to make for that stage. If you apply to ACF to ST1 you have to do the CST interviews. If you apply to ACF at ST3 level then you have to also do the specialty ST3 national selection interviews.
Hi Kitty. Thank you for making this video. Am I therefore right in thinking that all academic achievements must be completed by early FY2 (prior to the ACF application deadline) ? Would it therefore be somewhat disadvantageous to be in an AFP job in which the dedicated research block is at the end of FY2 ? Thank you
Hi - so assuming you apply straight to ACF after F2 (rather than at St2-4) then yes there’s a high chance achievements in AFP won’t have produced output yet. You can still talk about your AFP experience at interview, and having done it is viewed favourably. My view is that even if your AFP research block is in the beginning of F2, it is unlikely for any large project to come to fruition with outputs by the time of application. So I wouldn’t worry too much about timing of the AFP block as the likelihood is it won’t be ready. For me personally, I knew I couldn’t rely on the AFP research block, so although I had no academic time in F1 but I carried out projects anyway unrelated to my formal AFP block, and these had outputs I used for my application. The reality is that there is always a lag for these things - e.g. projects done at med school might not be published / presented by the time of AFP applications; and AFP projects might not be ready for ACF, etc.
I have a question: Becoming an ACF doctor will earn less than doctors on a regular program, is it right? Since you will have less time to do locum/on-call shift.
Hi, great question, actually I’m not earning any less than my colleagues. This is because I do 100% of the on-call shifts and only take my academic days on 8-5 normal working days, so I still get paid the normal 8-5 rates plus all the out of hours enhancements. In some deaneries you can choose to do 80% on calls in which case your pay will go down.
Hey, I think that an academic F2 is not required but for many posts it is often listed as desirable, and the NIHR also states this on their website. However the impact it has on your Oriel application is minimal compared to other big hitters like academic achievements to date. Practically speaking, by the time you’re applying for jobs, you’re probably only just starting your academic block in F2 and unlikely to have an output from this at the point of submitting evidence. I was able to talk a little about my academic time in the interview in terms of formal teaching / balancing clinical and academic time but it’s pretty much accepted you won’t have had much output from it by the time of application.
@@jyothikakkra1154 Any post tied to an ACF will come with a run-through training number, irregardless of whether they offer run-through training in the normal clinical pathway. This will apply to any medical or surgical specialty as well as GP. From 2019-2021 the IST pilot wanted to create more clinical runthrough posts (ENT, urology, vascular, gen surg were all included) however this was put on hold for the 2022 intake whilst the pilot is evaluated. For my year you therefore could not have a 100% clinical run-through training post; but academic training remains not impacted by this. Other specialties with run-through posts un-tied to IST also remain the same with ST1 entry, such as neurosurgery, cardiothoracics, and O&G.
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
You’re god sent ❤
Well done Kitty!! And thank you for this informative video! It is really difficult to find valuable information like this online, so I really appreciate it.
Just in terms of structuring your answers on the application form:
For presentations, do you explain each project in a paragraph, or just use bullet points to say when and where you've presented?
If it’s just the oriel application (non-white space) then just list them in each box. If it’s a WSQ asking for presentations I would briefly summarise the project and then say where it was presented, e.g. I conducted a systematic review examining XYZ which was presented orally at the international xxx conference.
hey thanks for this video, very informative! I've been looking at a few posts and they have the theme title "response mode". Could you elaborate what this means? thanks
Hi Kitty Wong thank you so much for this video. I had a question please. I am aware that they will be looking at your publications. Would this include publications from where you are cited within a hyperlink (e.g.vin a multicenter where there will be loads of collaborators). This is one of those citations where you click the organisation name and then you see your name listed among many others. Thanks!
I would put them down but try to make a note that you're a collaborative author and role (e.g. local / regional / national lead or just collaborator) and I would put them at the bottom of the list.
Thanks!
Based on the CST 2022 application guidance you basically have to be a consultant to get into CST at this point 🤦🏻♀️ Also, congratulations on your post!!
Hi Kitty, wanted to clarify some basic info -
1. If I want to apply for CST (clinical only )and ACF (academic and clinical), will they be separate applications?
If they are not separate applications, do I only apply for ACF and I will automatically be considered for CST ?
2. What is the difference between an ACF post, and working as an education fellow? Is an education fellow post helpful in ACF portfolio?
3. At what point in the application do we clarify the area of interest e.g surgery, medicine etc? Is it asked for in the application or during the interviews?
4. Do we select ACF allocated posts from the list available or are we assigned according to scoring or preference?
Would appreciate your guidance 😊
1. Separate applications. You need to apply to CST just like everyone else i.e. the standard application. Theoretically this is so that if you get an ACF post you want to turn down you can preference CST jobs like everyone else.
2. I can only speak for research themed ACFs as that’s what I’m doing (and education ACFs are quite rare). The main benefit is that ACF is part of the training pathway for your specialty and comes with a runthrough number; where as an education fellow would be taken as an F3/F4 without counting towards training. If you are applying to an education ACF, I imagine yes this might be helpful.
3. The ACF posts are specifically advertised for certain specialties and you apply to as many as you want. Some are specialty specific (e.g. GP ACF or cardiology ACF), some are themed (e.g. Acute care suitable for GP / cardiology / ED / IM trainees). You can apply to multiple posts per deanery, for example, the deanery might have 2x ACF posts for GP and additional theme post also suitable to GPs. In this case you can make 3 applications.
4. As above - unlike AFP, you only apply for the post with the specialty and theme already in mind and there is no changing the specialty or theme afterwards.
Thank you for your video and congratulations for landing your ACF! Just to clarify, if one wants to apply for an ACF, it is also mandatory to also apply for the clinical pathway training equivalent in order to benchmark clinically? Also, could you tell us a bit more about your portfolio and what is generally considered desirable to get shortlisted for an ACF (eg number of publications, experience)? Thank you!
Yes, you have to apply for clinical pathway training simultaneously to benchmark, unless you have already done this by the time of application (e.g. if you’re applying to ACF at ST4 having already gotten an ST3 number the year before).
It’s hard to say what is a “desirable” number of achievements as I only have my own experience and a few other anecdotes to go on. My CV was probably above average but generally if you’ve had a couple presentations / publications with a good set of WSQs you’ll get shortlisted, and building your CV for other big categories as well e.g. teaching programme. The range is massive with outliers on either end (think PhD with 30+ publications, or others with no publications at all)
Hi Kitty, thank you so much for this! I was hoping you could clarify something - when people move on to an ACL following the ACF, is a PhD usually integrated into the ACL, or do you typically undertake a PhD then move on to the ACL as an ST4? Thank you!
Hi, a PhD has to be done as time out of training (TOOT-R) and does not form part of the ACF or ACL. The prerequisite for applying for ACL posts usually states you must already have a PhD.
That makes sense thanks for your help!
Do we need gmc registration at time of application for ACF ??
Or is it okay if we have it before starting the post ?
Thank you
Also , Does it mean if you are not currently in the nhs you can not apply ?
Thanks
Don't mind my rudimentary questions as follows: I really do not understand bench-marking. Are you saying that aside the oriel application for the ACF, there is another separate application? What exactly is this application? And is this still via oriel? Is this the same as the MSRA applications after which you are ranked? Is that what bench-marking means?Please explain as it is quite confusing for IMGs. I came across this question while applying for an ACF post: ''Have you also applied for academic clinical fellowship (ACF) training in this specialty in the 2023 academic recruitment round?'' What does this mean? Thank you
So it’s just the equivalent clinical application you have to make for that stage. If you apply to ACF to ST1 you have to do the CST interviews. If you apply to ACF at ST3 level then you have to also do the specialty ST3 national selection interviews.
Hi Kitty. Thank you for making this video. Am I therefore right in thinking that all academic achievements must be completed by early FY2 (prior to the ACF application deadline) ? Would it therefore be somewhat disadvantageous to be in an AFP job in which the dedicated research block is at the end of FY2 ? Thank you
Hi - so assuming you apply straight to ACF after F2 (rather than at St2-4) then yes there’s a high chance achievements in AFP won’t have produced output yet. You can still talk about your AFP experience at interview, and having done it is viewed favourably.
My view is that even if your AFP research block is in the beginning of F2, it is unlikely for any large project to come to fruition with outputs by the time of application. So I wouldn’t worry too much about timing of the AFP block as the likelihood is it won’t be ready. For me personally, I knew I couldn’t rely on the AFP research block, so although I had no academic time in F1 but I carried out projects anyway unrelated to my formal AFP block, and these had outputs I used for my application. The reality is that there is always a lag for these things - e.g. projects done at med school might not be published / presented by the time of AFP applications; and AFP projects might not be ready for ACF, etc.
I have a question: Becoming an ACF doctor will earn less than doctors on a regular program, is it right? Since you will have less time to do locum/on-call shift.
Hi, great question, actually I’m not earning any less than my colleagues. This is because I do 100% of the on-call shifts and only take my academic days on 8-5 normal working days, so I still get paid the normal 8-5 rates plus all the out of hours enhancements.
In some deaneries you can choose to do 80% on calls in which case your pay will go down.
Congratulations, just a question is it important to have an academic Fy2 b4 applying for ACF programmes?
Hey, I think that an academic F2 is not required but for many posts it is often listed as desirable, and the NIHR also states this on their website. However the impact it has on your Oriel application is minimal compared to other big hitters like academic achievements to date.
Practically speaking, by the time you’re applying for jobs, you’re probably only just starting your academic block in F2 and unlikely to have an output from this at the point of submitting evidence. I was able to talk a little about my academic time in the interview in terms of formal teaching / balancing clinical and academic time but it’s pretty much accepted you won’t have had much output from it by the time of application.
@@KittyWongHF Thank you Kitty. Once again Congratulations. Also which all specialities provide a direct surgical training post MRCS without CST?
@@jyothikakkra1154 Any post tied to an ACF will come with a run-through training number, irregardless of whether they offer run-through training in the normal clinical pathway. This will apply to any medical or surgical specialty as well as GP.
From 2019-2021 the IST pilot wanted to create more clinical runthrough posts (ENT, urology, vascular, gen surg were all included) however this was put on hold for the 2022 intake whilst the pilot is evaluated. For my year you therefore could not have a 100% clinical run-through training post; but academic training remains not impacted by this. Other specialties with run-through posts un-tied to IST also remain the same with ST1 entry, such as neurosurgery, cardiothoracics, and O&G.
@@KittyWongHF Thank you soo much Kitty for explaining the layout. All the best for your ACF training. Waiting for more videos on your channel.😊
My partner is PhD, and want to apply for ACF neurology. Is it advisable to do so?